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26

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $2 cards

« on: July 18, 2012, 07:39:30 pm »

Which is the point of buying it.  You're not looking to give them Curses, you want them to not take the Embargoed option because you don't want to play against it. 

I understand that. I just think that's pretty awful. You can force your opponent to not choose a certain strategy, which you can't do either.

So?  The only time you're going to worry about that is if you and your opponent choose the same strategy.  If that happens, and if you can't gain an initial edge on that strategy or there's no foil card that you can pick up a couple of copies of then shut out, then you either don't buy Embargo or you buy it for something to do and place the token on something marginal.  If you're able to pick up an early Province before using Embargo, put the token on Provinces so you'll win in a 4-4 split.

Embargo is by no means a great card, but it's not being overrated on this list.

27

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Best Dominion Cards List 2012 Ed.2: $2 cards

« on: July 18, 2012, 07:58:44 am »

A few nitpicks:

I'd put embargo in the bottom 3. Good players seem to notice it is there and refrain from going for Duke-Duchy, IGG, Governor rush etc.

Which is the point of buying it.  You're not looking to give them Curses, you want them to not take the Embargoed option because you don't want to play against it. 

28

Dominion General Discussion / Re: When do you/don't you buy Grand Market over Province?

« on: July 17, 2012, 03:32:22 pm »

If you haven't got a Gold or an excessive amount of Silver, you're probably not going to be buying a Grand Market.

Unless you have a Vault (or Horse Traders, or Peddlers/Conspirators, or any number of other things, though Vault is generally fastest).

Hence my use of the word "probably".  It's possible to buy a GM with a good terminal money card (or Oasis/Peddler/Tournament) plus a couple of Silvers or a Quarry - though that again is back to having lots of Silver - but unless you have Vault in your kingdom, odds are on that you will need a Gold.  I'm sure you can provide many counterexamples, but it would be fairly pointless as they all boil down to chance in the draw or chance in the kingdom setup.  I accept the odds are not outlandish, I just think it's more likely to work the other way.

29

Dominion General Discussion / Re: When do you/don't you buy Grand Market over Province?

« on: July 15, 2012, 05:34:14 pm »

Well, when there's Colonies on the board, definitely.

If not, I think it depends on the board. If I'm building an engine, probably. If I haven't got a Gold yet (and not an excessive number of silver), probably. If I already have an early Gold and it's a big money type board, then... it's possibly worth it. Otherwise probably not.

If you haven't got a Gold or an excessive amount of Silver, you're probably not going to be buying a Grand Market.

30

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Mediocre player seeks bubble-bursting advice

« on: July 11, 2012, 05:26:18 am »

I'd say overall you played the game pretty well.  I'm going to echo the others and say that a steward/silver opening would probably be stronger, and that a 5/2 opening wasn't optimal for your opponent.

I can't really comment on how well you did with watching for reshuffles and pearl diver plays, as that's hard enough for me in game, let alone looking at it from an outsider perspective.

It was more the last turn, where I played a second Pearl Diver even though the first had told me my deck was empty then needlessly Islanded a Copper when I knew I was about to three-pile the game.

Looking at it I'm inclined to agree about the Steward.  I was looking at it from the perspective of the City race; the Islands were a pile that was guaranteed to empty and I couldn't guarantee coming out ahead on Cities.  With Goons on the table as well I wanted to have a small VP edge so I could piledrive Pearl Divers to quickly end the game before being Gooned out of it.  Also, if I could put my opponent in a position where he would voluntarily empty the second pile that would give me the first shot at a full-strength City turn.  That could make the difference if the split was 5-5 or 6-4 against me.

31

Dominion General Discussion / Mediocre player seeks bubble-bursting advice

« on: July 10, 2012, 07:28:54 pm »

So, I've been dabbling a little on Isotropic (without logging in), and I just won a rather handy victory against a rank 19.  Before I start thinking I can play this game, would experienced heads mind dissecting my performance and telling me how they would have played it better?  I know I made some mistakes - for a start, playing the second Pearl Diver on the last turn when I'd drawn my whole deck cost me an additional VP for being unable to buy a second Estate.  These things are small, but earlier I lost a game against a high-20s player by a single point so I know the margins are small.

The log is here: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/10/game-20120710-160741-f610286b.html

32

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Bishop Treasury combo?

« on: July 10, 2012, 04:15:05 pm »

I used Bishop treasury to set up a double gold trashing engine

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201207/10/game-20120710-074525-786b9a7d.html

It's worth noting that in that game you were behind until the last turn, and only won because warbaker stuttered on both his last two reshuffles - most notably on his final turn, where he failed to draw one of five Embassies and a Remodel despite drawing 9 cards from 30.   Obviously you're more likely to stutter as you increase your green quotient, but on the basis of that game I'd say the trashing engine is not as quick as a straight Province rush.

33

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Should Chapel cost $3?

« on: July 06, 2012, 04:42:25 pm »

A Torturer that chooses both actions, only draws 2 cards and dilutes your deck with an Estate on the way.

Still, the fact that there's only one copy in the game should make it pretty costly.

More costly than $12 and two buys, followed by having to hook up your Tournament with a Province?

34

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Alternate (pure) VP Cards

« on: July 05, 2012, 07:55:22 pm »

The interesting thing is how many Duchies to get before you take a stab at the Dukes.  The first thing I read said 3 (sorry, forgot the link). 

That's a fairly simple formula.  Duchies are each worth 3+y, where y is the number of Dukes you have.  Dukes are each worth x, where x is the number of Duchies you have.  So if x > 3+y, you buy a Duke; otherwise, you buy a Duchy.

35

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Should Chapel cost $3?

« on: July 05, 2012, 03:37:29 am »

It's because the difference between Chapel/- and Chapel/Silver is much bigger than Chapel/$5 card and Chapel/Silver. The 5/2 vs 3/4 game is inherently unfair for one player, but a $2 cost Chapel makes the difference a bit smaller. This is especially true when you consider that there weren't many good alternative $2 cards in Base, which would make the 5/2 opening especially bad if Chapel were $3.

Having a $5 card available as early as turn 3 is the counterbalance to missing a second buy.  You also have more chance to draw your $5 card in $5/nothing than an opponent who plays $4/anything has to draw his $4 card.  Chapel at $2 only compounds that; a turn 3 Chapel doesn't guarantee your $5 play on turn 4, but it gives you a much bigger chance of getting it on both turn 4 and turn 5 - and depending what you buy, maybe even on turn 6 too. 

36

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Other websites and fan made cards after the official release

« on: July 04, 2012, 07:43:45 pm »

The clones I've played:
Thunderstone - basic dominion rules with monster killing.
Puzzle Strike - basic dominion rules with colored actions and direct player conflict instead of VP Gaining
Resident Evil - basic dominion with killing randomly flipped monsters from a stack of monsters.
Quarriors - dominion rules - but with dice instead of cards. 

Legit deckbuilding games that aren't dominion ripoffs:
A few acres of snow -  I'm told that the Halifax Hammer breaks this game.  I refuse to read the strategy so I won't ruin it.
Eminent Domain - Fun - but I suspect that without the same level of variable setup - that this game won't have the same staying power as Dominion.

Just because a game is a deckbuilder, doesn't mean it's a Dominion rip-off or a clone.  Practically every CCG uses some mechanics from Magic: the Gathering, but they are their own games.  It could even be argued that Dominion itself draws inspiration from Magic's Rochester Draft format, adding a resource mechanic that limits the cards you can draft - but it's not a rip-off.  A rip-off is when you take someone else's idea and copy it wholesale without adding any new dimension. 

One deckbuilder that definitely isn't a "clone" of Dominion is Miskatonic School For Girls.  It's not as deep and has a fixed start, but it's a lot of fun to play a game based entirely around screwing up your opponents faster than they can recover.

37

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s) 2.0: $2 cards posted

« on: July 03, 2012, 05:00:48 pm »

Regarding Secret Chamber vs. Duchess vs. Pearl Diver: I rank #14 Secret Chamber, #15 Duchess, #16 Pearl Diver. I've seen games where Secret Chamber was a game-winning buy. I've seen games where Duchess were very important buys, but I can't remember games where Pearl Diver buys were really game-changing. I try to ask myself before I rank: "How much does the presence of this card change the board?" Have you ever seen a game, where the presence of Pearl Diver was important? But still these 3 cards are clearly the worst 3 IMO.

It's true that Pearl Diver never wins the game - as per, I'm excluding scenarios involving Throne Room/KC as they make any +C/+A card insane - but it's also never a card you're upset to draw because it's only wasted if you draw it from your last terminal.  Duchess improves your opponent's draws, especially if he's greening or you're playing Spy.  Secret Chamber is generally speaking a terminal Copper with a discard attached that's only really useful for buying Grand Markets or neutralising Minions.  They're both at best narrowly useful, which in my eye makes them poorer buys than a card that will at the least replace itself without cost.

38

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s) 2.0: $2 cards posted

« on: July 02, 2012, 06:42:47 pm »

Qvist, are you going to update your sig as you go, or do it all at the end?

39

Dominion General Discussion / Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...

« on: June 29, 2012, 05:23:34 pm »

Chapel being too cheap is no reason to make Familiar too cheap.  When you want Familiars most, between the first and second reshuffles, their opportunity cost is only $4.  Dropping that to $3 would be obscenely overpowered for a cantrip curser, which as a card is at least as strong as Sea Hag - perhaps stronger, as it cycles when the Curses are gone while Sea Hag is effectively dead - and not all that far off the power level of Witch.

Can you explain what you mean when you say the "opportunity cost is only $4"? This doesn't really make much sense to me. The opportunity cost is pretty high -- you have to buy an otherwise useless Potion at the opening, then buy the Familiar -- and it's hard to quantify that in $.

After the first reshuffle you will probably have 12 cards and the maximum value of those cards is $12, more probably $9-10.  So on the second run through your deck every card has a rounded average value of $1, and over the extended series the equivalent of a $3p hand on turn 3 is a $4 hand.

40

Dominion General Discussion / Re: With my Dominion Time Machine...

« on: June 28, 2012, 06:02:13 pm »

Familiar is "obviously" too strong at $2P, just as Chapel is too strong at $2. Like Chapel's low cost, this makes broadens the availability of the power card; the change would make it much less likely that you can't buy one on T3/4.

Chapel being too cheap is no reason to make Familiar too cheap.  When you want Familiars most, between the first and second reshuffles, their opportunity cost is only $4.  Dropping that to $3 would be obscenely overpowered for a cantrip curser, which as a card is at least as strong as Sea Hag - perhaps stronger, as it cycles when the Curses are gone while Sea Hag is effectively dead - and not all that far off the power level of Witch.

If I had a time machine and could only change things about Dominion, I'd raise the cost of Chapel to $3, and add a $5 cost $3 Treasure Duration that made you discard a card at random the next time you drew your hand.

41

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Double Terminal Opening on 4/3

« on: June 28, 2012, 05:27:44 pm »

Seven of the top 20 ranked Masquerade/X openings on Council Room have terminals for X, the weakest of which is double-Masq at +3.6.  Masq/Silver is ranked higher than any of them, though.

42

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s) 2.0

« on: June 27, 2012, 04:09:35 am »

Why don't you play isotropic? 

Because they ask for Google ID instead of having their own accounts.  I'm probably just being paranoid, but in accordance with the internet version of Pascal's Wager, I don't take the risk that I'm not.

Explorer will be largely underrated?  You mean there are people who will rate it below Counting House?

43

Dominion General Discussion / Re: THE Dominion Card List(s) 2.0

« on: June 26, 2012, 06:50:29 pm »

I didn't force you to enter your user name from this forum or isotropic, because there may be some that want to be anonymous.
But as I weight your ranking with your isotropic user level, maybe those 3 of you who didn't submit a user name may PM me and tell me!?

I did put a user name on my votes, not knowing it was optional, but I've never played on Isotropic so it's my user name here.  I use this user name most places I go and have done for many years, but being what it is there are some sites where I've had it "poached" from me.  So if there's an Isotropic user called Jedit, please don't use his ranking for weight on my votes.