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101

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room + Durable Mouse

« on: May 18, 2021, 01:59:00 pm »

Dominion Online is known to be bugged when the MouseToy is a Duration card and a Duration card is played using Way of the Mouse. 

>  Band of Misfits to play a non-Duration Action card and use Way of the Mouse to play Fishing Village, Band of Misfits stayed in play. I don't think that's intended as Band of Misfits did not emulate a Duration card.

That behaviour is correct. The stay-out rules for "play this but leave it there" cards (like Band of Misfits) don't care if the card played was a Duration card, all they care is how long the played card would stay out if it was actually in play. The non-Duration Action card would stay out if it "normally" played a Fishing Village using Way of the Mouse, so Band of Misfits stays out.  It's there to remind you next turn that some effect needed a reminder that isn't itself there, in this case for the Fishing Village effect.

102

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room + Durable Mouse

« on: May 16, 2021, 07:15:43 am »

I agree with everything in this thread, except for this nitpick:

It may be obvious, but it's worth repeating that the important part is that Throne Room played a staying-out Duration card twice.

Not necessarily "twice", but "extra times" (as you wrote in the next paragraph). This way Royal Carriage and Scepter are also covered.

Right, good catch!

103

Rules Questions / Re: Throne Room + Durable Mouse

« on: May 14, 2021, 05:55:08 am »

I'm not sure if this has come up before. Let us suppose Way of the Mouse has Fishing Village. Here goes.

We know this:

Throne Room -> Wharf / Way of the Otter. Throne played a Duration, is discarded from play when the Duration is. Wharf is discarded from play this turn; so is Throne Room.

That bit is ambiguous. You Throne Roomed a Wharf, so you play Wharf twice. Playing it using Way of the Otter or "normally" is independent for both plays. Your outcome is true only if you chose to play Wharf using Way of the Otter both times. If you play Wharf at least once "normally", then Wharf will have something to do on your next turn, so stays in play until then. Since the Throne Room played the Wharf, a Duration card, twice, it will also stay in play until then.

Okay, so here's the question:

Throne Room -> Necropolis / Way of the Mouse -> Fishing Village. Necropolis played a Duration card which acts next turn; Necropolis stays in play. Throne did not play a Duration card, is discarded this turn.

Correct.

Throne Room -> Wharf / Way of the Mouse -> Fishing Village. Wharf played a Duration card which acts next turn; Wharf stays in play....

Well, Wharf played a card that was not in play "leaving it there", that's what's keeping it out until the card it played would have stayed out. That it played a Duration card is not relevant, Duration cards are just the overwhelming majority of cards that can stay out.

In this case, there actually is no existing card that can be a card for Way of the Mouse and either is like a Throne Room or like an Overlord, it could only be a Duration card that would stay out. But that is AFAIK a "lucky coincidence" of how cards are priced (those effects don't come so cheap that a card is eliigable for Way of the Mouse).

In your previous Overlord -> Wharf example, it could have been Overlord --> Throne Room --> Wharf. Throne Room would have stayed in play along with the Wharf, so Overlord actually stays in play as a stand in, as long as Throne Room would, which is as long as Wharf does. So Overlord played a non-Duration card that would have stayed in play, causing Overlord to stay in play.

...Throne did play a Duration card (Wharf), stays in play until Wharf is discarded, next turn.

It may be obvious, but it's worth repeating that the important part is that Throne Room played a staying-out Duration card twice. If it was a Vassal or Herold that played Wharf, either normally or using Way of the Mouse playing Fishing Village, Vassal/Herold would not stay out.

In other words, Throne on a Duration card played according to a durable Way of the Mouse behaves differently than Throne on a non-Duration card played according to a durable Way of the Mouse.

Yes. That's because the rules for "Throne Rooms" staying out explicitly mention they only apply when they play a Duration card extra times. It may seem strange to make a distinction, but having it work on all cards would have resulted in another change in what stays out for "Throne Room -> Throne Room -> Smithy/Fishing Village", keeping the first Throne Room in play "again". Basically one aspect of the 2019 errata was to keep the rules changed to a minimum, with getting the work done on errataing Overlord/Band of Misfits a.s.o to use the new "play something, leaving it there" method and keep tracking of effects half-way intact.

104

Rules Questions / Re: Taking Artifacts from Border Guard

« on: April 26, 2021, 04:38:49 am »

The way I see it is that Noble Brigand doesn't make you choose a card name, like Rebuild, but a concrete card, similar to Lookout. For Lookout you have to choose one the revealed cards to trash, even if you don't want to. For Noble Brigand, you have to choose one of the revealed cards, even if you don't want to. The only difference is that there is a further restriction on the revealed card you have to choose, which is that it must be Silver or Gold. If no Silver or Golds are reveled that is of course impossible. But if there is, then one of them has to be chosen.

105

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Rank no longer updating?

« on: April 22, 2021, 07:35:03 am »

I notified Stef (the developer). Thanks for the info.

106

Rules Questions / Re: Possession and Events/Projects

« on: April 17, 2021, 01:10:46 am »

Yes.

The key fact to remember is that from a rules perspective, it is the Possessed player's turn. Do not EVER forget that.

If your opponent in their turn buys a Project, of course their cube is placed on the Project, not yours and not any other player's who may be playing. Absolutely the same if their turn is you Possessing them.

The only exceptions are stated on the card:
1) You gain the cards they would gain,
2) Their trashed cards are "rescued",
3) You gain the debt tokens they would gain.

107

Rules Questions / Re: Sewers & Priest

« on: March 30, 2021, 03:36:33 am »

A slightly longer explanation  can be found in the Dominion Online forum, which I prepared for the Online release of Renaissance.

108

Rules Questions / Re: Walled Village + Scheme

« on: March 01, 2021, 03:48:44 am »

You have to remember that the discussion took place when a different wording for Scheme was in use (if I got my time lines correct). But my understanding is that it worked then as pubby described.

Now the online version has you make all the decisions after "Start iof Cleanup effects", but before the discard(s) themself happen. That's to prevent the need to go "Which card to discard next", which in 99.999% of situations is pointless. The only real problem is Hermit, which can cause a chain of effects that cause cards to leave play (other than discarded) or enter play during Hermit's trigger, which can screw up your previous decisions. But I haven't seen this myself, it's "just" a theoretical problem.

109

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Enhance Bug

« on: February 22, 2021, 09:01:03 am »

Thanks for the report, chaoslord!

Do you have a game number where that happend, because I tested it and it seems to work correctly?

Note that if you only have one buy, Enhance will use it up, no matter if you have a valid choice for it. So the game will then end the buy phase and proceed to Night/Cleanup, where usually nothing much visible happens.

But if you do have more than 1 buy, the game (at least in my test) allowed you to continue buying things.

110

Rules Questions / Re: War error?

« on: February 02, 2021, 09:27:41 am »

There was no price reduction in effect.

Sure there was. Your opponent had bought Canal.

111

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Prince of Border Guard

« on: January 17, 2021, 09:03:54 am »

No, unfortunately this isn't possible right now and it's been bothering me since some time 

112

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: bug of inventors triggered between turns

« on: November 29, 2020, 05:39:22 am »

You are right, "until end of turn" or "this turn" effects have an incorrect duration in the online client, the same cost reduction for example from Bridge also lasts until your actual next turn ends.

In reality, from my understanding, between turns is nobody's turn, so "until end of turn"/"this turn" is undefined, because there is no turn going on. So like all undefined things, the thing it refers to doesn't happen, so no cost reduction comes of this Inventor (so if you trash 2 Catacombs and do the mentioned sequence twice, the second Inventor will see the same costs of cards as the first one).

Inheritance (under its  new October 2019 wording) only works "on your turn", so Estates are never Actions between turns.

113

Rules Questions / Re: Mastermind + Mastermind + X + X + Mastermind

« on: November 15, 2020, 03:45:20 pm »

The key in understanding this is that there a two sets of rules that govern how long Mastermind (MM) stays in play:

1) The rules for a Duration card staying in play, and
2) The rules for a "Throne Room"-like card staying in play.

The rules for a Duration card staying in play would just keep the Mastermind out for 1 turn, after that time, it did it's job of playing another card 3 times. But the rules for "Throne Room"-like cards say that such a card playing a Duration card an additional time means they stay out as long as the Duration card does.

MM1 is played on turn X. On turn X+1 MM1 plays MM2 3 times. MM1 stays out as long as MM2, according to the rules for 2) above. Since MM2 is a Duration card that has things left to do, MM1 stays at for another turn (X+2), on which MM2 plays Smithies (no relevance for staying out) and MM3. By the same argument as above, MM2 stays in play as long as MM3 does, so is staying at least until turn (X+3), which means MM1 also stays in play until at least that turn.

So your option i) is correct.

114

Rules Questions / Re: Clarifying playing the action with Toil

« on: October 26, 2020, 06:21:48 pm »

Sure you can use them. What would be the point of +Buy if you can't use money you generated before the first buy to pay for a second or further buy? Events like Borrow and Desperation are made to use that feature. Note that the buy phase has 2 sub-phases, in the first you play Treasure cards, in the second you buy things. So after you bought something, you can no longer play Treasures (as the game allowed action to play Treasures is limited to the first sub-phase). Only if some effect says so you can do it (like if you Toil a Crown).

And btw, the idea of "virtual" or "non-virtual" money is not useful. If you play an Action, it may generate money or it may not. If you play a Treasure card, it may generate money, or it may not. The money generated (if any) is absolutely the same. The only difference is that the percentage of "may not" is much higher for Actions than it is for Treasures.

115

Rules Questions / Re: Question about Tunnel and Sleigh

« on: October 26, 2020, 06:15:02 am »

The current ruling is that "discard down to X" effects happen in one event. So once the discard down to 3 for Margrave has been done (likely discarding 3 cards from 6 down to 3 in one event), any future hand size increases/decreases, even if happening still during Margraves execution, have no further effect on those instructions.

So with Tunnel/Gold/Sleigh, your brother should have ended up with 2 cards in hand (3 after Margrave discard, then one less by discarding Sleigh). They could have put the Gold in hand with Sleigh as well, reaching 3 cards, but again neither effect has a bearing on the Margrave discard effect any more.

With Tunnel/Gold/Sheepdog, again the additional 2 cards drawn from Sheepdog have no bearing on the already completed discard effect by Margrave.

------

Now there are discussions that this should be handled the same as "draw to X" effects, which are one at a time: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20160.0
But as far as I'm aware what I wrote above is the way it currently works.

116

Rules Questions / Re: Questions about Ways

« on: October 26, 2020, 05:59:56 am »

Especially for question 2, it pays to remember that the decision if to use a Way on a given Action card playing happens after all the "first" effects for it have happened, like opponents revealing a Moat, or Urchin triggering or the Adventure tokens doing their effect.

If you know this, the answer to question 2 becomes blindingly obvious, because the Urchin effect needs to have already happened before even the time comes to decide if you want to use a Way.

117

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Bug: interaction between Enchantress and Way of the Chameleon

« on: October 12, 2020, 05:51:32 am »

Right. Both Enchantress and Ways replace "following the card's instructions" with something else. Once a Way is applied, Enchantress can't affect it.

118

Rules Questions / Re: Way of the Chameleon Instructions

« on: October 01, 2020, 09:35:52 am »

Consider following game situations:

(a) Play Chapel with Way of the Chameleon, trash Rats, get +1 Card or +1$
(b) Play Rats with Way of the Chameleon, get +1$. Later buy Bonfire, trash this Rats, get +1 Card or +1$
(c) Play Priest with Way of the Chameleon, get +2 Cards. Later play Chapel, trash Copper, get +2$ or +2 Cards from Priest

(a): +1 Card.
(b): +1 Card.
(c): +2 Cards.

Which +Card, +$ will be triggered by Way of the Chameleon?
(i) All instructions on the chameleoned card (triggers (b) and (c))
(ii) Only instructions on the chameleoned card above the line (triggers only (c))
(iii) All +Card, +$ produced by the chameleoned card during following the instructions of this card (triggers only (a))
(iv) ?

The answer is a slight variation on (ii), it will effect only those instructions on the chameleoned card above the line (more precisely: the on-play instructions), that happen during this turn.

So playing Merchant Ship using Way of the Chameleon will give you +2 Cards this turn but +$2 on your next turn, and the other way around for Wharf.

If (ii) is right, are there another abilities triggered by Way of the Chameleon after following the instructions of the chameleoned card besides Priest? I didn't find anything.

Merchant comes to mind, though this likely not often useful.

119

Rules Questions / Re: Simple Rules Questions

« on: October 01, 2020, 04:43:25 am »

There has never been the case that Vassal or similar cards cause Durations to stay; only Throne Room variants. There were some changes to the underlying rule though.
But I don't think the stop-moving errata could be relevant in any case, since it only dealt with moving covered cards in your discard pile.

The question is, what exactly is a Throne Room variant? Newer cards like Scepter play a card only once, but are still considered "Throne Room" variants. So the difference between Vassal playing a Village Green that was already played this turn and a Scepter playing a Village Green that was already played this turn is IMO hard to pin down exactly.

So the practical solution (in my understanding) is to say we "know" a Throne Room variant when we see it, and Vassal doesn't fit.

120

Rules Questions / Re: Playing a discarded Village Green no longer in the Discard Pile

« on: September 14, 2020, 03:49:32 am »

The idea (from the game development perspective) is to minimize the number of occasions where you play a card but don't have the physical card present to put intom play. This possibility exists since the original base set (Throne a Feast), but at that time the effect was shortlived (you just do it now, no need to remember anything), while Village Green is a Duration card.

The "reveal" version gets rid of the problem of the Village Green "vanishing" from wherever it was put into. I assume it will arrive on the next printed version if Menagerie.

121

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: March + Ways

« on: August 21, 2020, 04:46:07 am »

Right, you found bad UI   

What you are supposed to do is buy March, move the shown discard pile downward so you can see the Kingdom, and click on the Way you want to use. This changes the Action card pictures to the Way picture. If you play an Action card now, it is played using the Way.

Of course, the interface should just show the "Way" button on the Actions cards in your discard pile, so one click to the right place would be enough to declare your choice.

122

Rules Questions / Re: When exactly does Wayfairer's cost change?

« on: August 05, 2020, 04:46:44 am »

Thanks!

123

Rules Questions / Re: When exactly does Wayfairer's cost change?

« on: August 02, 2020, 04:16:31 am »

Actually, I think you picked the one example where the answer is not that obvious. Notice that Gatekeeper says "Until then, when another player...". It's possible this refers to the point in time that the previous "At start of turn,..." effect was resolved.

124

Rules Questions / Re: Duration next turn effect + Way of the Chameleon

« on: July 29, 2020, 06:40:53 am »

Basically the reason for that wording boils boils down to tracking issues IRL. You are supposed to remember what you do/did the current turn, but remembering how many of your Duaration cards you Chameleon'ed last turn may be hard in a 4 player game, for example.

125

Rules Questions / Re: Multiple reaction

« on: July 17, 2020, 05:34:06 am »

Right. Note that the right to react always starts with/reverts to the active player. That can be important in the above scenario if we assume that Moat is also in the kingdom.

Let's say I (active player) have a Falconer myself in hand, but initially decide not to use it on my Mill gain. As answered, Aki plays her Falconer, gaining a Black Cat. Now the "right to react" returns to me, and now I can decide to play Falconer to gain a Moat to my hand, to protect me from the imminent Black Cat play by Aki.