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Messages - pingpongsam

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26
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 26, 2021, 09:27:35 pm »
WTF is going on? Either Eddie is town because he's being awfully persistent or he's scum and knows about some twilight thing. If so, I hope the twilight thing is in Galz' hands. That would just be beautiful.

27
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 26, 2021, 05:40:03 pm »
Re PPS: I could be wrong, because I don't remember ever actually seeing a governor act, but I didn't think they got to see a flip before making their decision. Like the idea of a pardon is that the executive ignores the true innocence/guilt of the subject and says you are free. Think about it, a governor that gets to know the flip before their decision creates 2 ICs the moment they use their power (barring counterclaim), and I don't think that's what happens.

Then I agree, the way Eddie went from softclaiming scum to claiming again to be town is governor bait of the worst variety.

28
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 26, 2021, 05:22:37 pm »
Gah! Swowl, you are killing us!

It's not swowl killing you scum, it's town doing it...

You calling WCD bad? Shame.

Also, I was feeling clever with my little post after being voted out.

I made it so it could be read as scum from this perspective but after I flipped you could reread everything from the perspective of me being Town and it would make sense.

It was funny.

I was laughing.

(Finding my partners = other town)

That being said, feels to be bad form to not come clean now in case someone can save me.

I doubt anyone will, but it’s the thing to do.

I saw that. It was funny. Not funny enough to lol though.

Okay I'm just going to assume you're town now. What are your scumreads, hyper and...?

Why assume he's actually town though? If there's potential for someone to act in twilight (presumably something like a governor type of role), why should we just make that assumption because he said "lol jk"? If you are just setting your own personal expectations regarding the impending(?) flip, then fine, but there was nothing in his post hammer comments that actually seems particularly townie to me. Like if you were hammered, said good luck to your scumbuddies, and then the thread realized there is at least a chance someone can do something in twilight (governor comes to mind), of course you're going to say yeah the townies are my partners.

To be clear, I still think Eddie is going to flip scum. One thing that was maybe kind of sort of mentioned by Ash once, but the poison doctor that can kill strikes me as a scummy claim, just like Joth claiming RB. Like, yeah there are town RBs, but they are much less common than scum RBs, so an RB is often a "safe" fake claim for scum. Either they can claim their real power or they can assume they probably aren't going to get counterclaimed (depending on the game/setup obviously). In a similar vein, a poison doctor claim has a lot of advantages for scum. The way Eddie described his role, he has cover for being caught killing someone later in the game once. He has cover if he is seen trying to kill someone but someone else protects them. If poison isn't even in the game, it adds confusion for parsing night actions. I mean, we haven't even seen more than one kill in a night yet. Simplest solution is just scum has one NK, or if multiball each faction can only shoot on alternating nights. Yeah, protection is totally possible, but to have happened two nights in a row in a game this big would be something else.

I don't know. If there's anyone out there that would have the choice to reverse the exile, this is NOT the time to do that imho...

ppe 3

Right, a reverse is only useful when alignment is known. I thought that was the case with a governor, though.

29
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 26, 2021, 05:19:32 pm »
With no flip and continued twilight doesn't that negate a governor delaying things? Cause we could really use one right now if Eddie actually is town.

30
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 26, 2021, 06:41:14 am »
I see I've been quoted. Neat.

Hmm, I kinda wanna hammer Uncle...should I reread before that? Probably?

I have a feeling everyone's waiting on me...

Hyper fell out after the weekend. You're the only one left, right?

31
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 25, 2021, 10:12:43 pm »
@MiX

Either tell people I’m Town or kill me.

Do town things.

32
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 24, 2021, 09:30:19 pm »
Also, PPS is worth keeping around.  His running commentary on my play makes for a more fun game.  If he's mafia, he'll slip before the end of the game.

Thanks, bb!

33
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 24, 2021, 10:55:55 am »
My middle name is scumslip, I am forever proof that scumslips happen.

34
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 24, 2021, 10:21:49 am »
What do you guys have to say about Ash and Didds TRing me?

So...uncle could have messed up his fakeclaim here.

You mean this?

35
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 24, 2021, 10:00:27 am »
...were you to be NK'd with no chance to claim town would still be unaware of a poison element. This seems unlikely to me...

Why did you ask me whether my flip would confirm poison? If green, it doesn’t matter, and if Red it doesn’t matter. My answer it irrelevant always.

Bolded portion is my answer already. I have played with arsonists and bombers and in most cases it's ideal for the defusers to claim only when pressed so they aren't removed leaving the attackers unchecked. The huge upside being that if they flip without a chance to claim the presence of a delayed threat is still telegraphed. It's bad design to try to make the claim/no claim pressure cut both ways.

36
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 24, 2021, 07:02:58 am »
You are claiming something exists that should scare town into keeping you alive that cannot be verified in any way whatsoever. You suggest that flipping you would give a black and white resolution to that existence but it hinges upon you having claimed it to begin with. The point of my clarification is that were you to be NK'd with no chance to claim town would still be unaware of a poison element. This seems unlikely to me unless another town can come forward to confirm additional knowledge of poisoning.

Your suggestion about how I must be scum for seeing through this fallacy is the real scumread pivot. You've gone from reluctantly voting me out of self preservation to seeking veiled substantiation to convince others into it as well.

Of course, if you flipped town we'd be forced to believe the poison element whether we could otherwise see it or not. Acting as if I can't grok that and that makes me scum is blatantly disingenuous and an obvious scum ploy.

Vote: Eddie

37
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 23, 2021, 09:08:23 pm »
Are you gonna?

I doubt I will today.

I announced the bit that woulda been sad if it died with me.

To be clear your flip alone would reveal nothing about poison in the game?

38
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 23, 2021, 09:50:22 am »
Poison seems ill fitting thematically? I'm asking because I recall no such mechanic in the movie. Eddie, are you willing to claim your character name?

39
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 23, 2021, 09:10:17 am »
I have not played with poison in maybe ever? How does it typically work? Does a poisoned player know they are poisoned? Obviously it's a delayed kill.

Maybe I missed the thrust of the poison claim. Eddie, are you suggesting chairs died of poisoning and there wasn't a NK?

40
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 23, 2021, 09:07:25 am »
Killing in the alternate timeline N1 makes perfect sense to me because it is essentially a N0 kill for that timeline. There is no POE to be gained from it for those in that timeline.

The shot at chairs is the real mystery. It's effectively the only reason I am not immediately voting Eddie. Why would scum force a 1v1 on themselves when it is completely avoidable unless that 1v1 doesn't really exist and they want it to appear as such?

One possibility I thought of is redirection. I think redirection is typically anti town but it seems somewhat thematic for this game, maybe? At any rate, maybe scum did not mean to kill chairs but rather someone else? If town did redirect last night then I think they should claim even if outside their timeline. Whoever they targeted is scum and so is Eddie. If true, redirection here would be supremely pro town.

41
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 22, 2021, 06:17:43 pm »
Hey,  people, what’s the plan?

PPS, who are you settling on for this kill?

I am waiting on an Awaclus weigh in as promised.

I am actually shocked there's no night action results being shared. I will share that the person I targeted should know that they were targeted and my role claim, if forced, is verifiable.

I was sorely disappointed in the ashersky weigh-in. I really thought I was going to see some real critique or additional angles to the timeline convergence and potential scum distribution concepts I laid out. I feel like he would play different if it were his active timeline though and I see that as kind of hamstringing everything in that getting overall reads is important but we don't tend to see full engagement from people in the outside timelines.

I would urge everyone to be equally invested in each timeline as much as possible if for no other reason than to give everyone else sufficient read information for their following days.

Anyhow, I don't see anyone thinking very far outside the 1v1 so my obvious pick is Eddie. While I definitely can pick up what Eddie is putting down about hyper I also agree with hyper's counter that it appears to be scum reaching for anything outside the 1v1 because POE nails him according to the prevailing scum loading theory. That said, he doesn't seem to be enagaging my pontifications about alternate scum loading which I think he would latch onto if the hyper counter is factual. So, after typing that thought train into something cohesive I may see a little more merit to a hyper case.

42
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Day 3!
« on: May 21, 2021, 05:56:39 pm »
The idea that scum NK cannot cross the divide supports my theory that timelines converge when a faction is absent one.

43
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Sign Ups Open!
« on: May 21, 2021, 03:01:22 pm »

    c.   During the Night, only players on the Active Timeline will be allowed to take actions.
 

From the rules post. Seems pretty explicit to me. If this only applies to town, I'd say this is a bastard game.

I'll concede that is reasonable deduction to make, then. I wasn't imagining a scum free for all so much as potential x-shot scum pr. Joth was 1 shot strongman for example.

44
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 02:45:48 pm »
We know there's at least 2 scum in forward timeline since chairs died (unless someone wants to claim they killed him?), so it's not impossible for there to only be 1 scum in reverse.

MIx, can you explain this to me? How do we know that?

I think the assumption is that scum can only act on their timeline night. This is another one of those assumptions that I find risky to attach such certainty to. If true, with 1 scum dead there'd need to be another scum to make the kill.

45
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 02:03:11 pm »
There seems to be immense pressure to 1v1 today. A lot of the arguments for it are sound but founded on premises that cannot be 100% known. If they are, in fact false, we're setting ourselves up to potentially 1v1 two back to back town in this timeline which is going to be catastrophic. It feels like there's a certainty developing that if one of the off wagon flip town the other must be the scum and the next day's fix is in.

I am by no means a setup genius and I've already proposed a mechanism by which we could be wrong which suggests to me there could be others. Both Eddie and I are looking outside the 1v1 box which is certainly making me want to town read him. I understand his resignation as I am equally tempted as well but it feels more and more like a potentially doomed scenario that we may have been falsely led into. I would greatly prefer more weigh in from not only all players but especially Awaclus as he is in this timeline before calling it a day by casting a vote out of self preservation and blithe belief in the setup conditions.

46
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 12:00:51 pm »
I've been mulling over how it could resolve if all of either alignment were eliminated from a timeline. I think such a gamestate might result in a timeline convergence. In the case of town elimination scum likely have the game in the bag anyhow but if not yet then assuming the timelines publicly converge the remaining scum from that timeline are effectively known. In the case of scum elimination it seems possible for timelines to converge there as well. I suppose town could get a huge boost to no exile every day and focusing PRs on the other timeline during their night but it seems like a boring way to play out the game for those stuck in a timeline with no adversary.

At any rate, such an idea lends some credence to asymmetrical scum loading. If my theory is at all worthwhile, with 1 scum gone from the forward timeline and no public convergence we could assume multiple scum on forward timeline but not necessarily assume multiple scum on the reverse timeline. This is about the only way I can perceive ignoring the must lynch off wagon campaign for today.

47
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 11:22:15 am »
Can't say I ever read math as scum, either.

48
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 11:06:42 am »
He was also the universally agreed “scummiest vote” on M.D.

This is the line of reasoning joth tried to use - voting for mathdude was towny.

But he was town.

insert eyes emoji here

49
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 10:59:03 am »
The chairs flip brings more credibility to a thought that Didds touched on some time ago. What if scum somehow don't actually know about each other? Say, they are all traitors such that a blind shot has a chance of recruitment?

50
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 58: Memento Mafia - Night 2
« on: May 21, 2021, 10:58:05 am »
Assumption? That's what math died to tell us.

Right, okay, it's coming together for me now. We know it's not 2 in Mix, Cube, Gloobie, Awac. Chances of timeline containing 3 scum seem vanishingly small to me too. Chances of 1 not so much but 2 seems like a  reasonable assumption.

Knowing my alignment I now see the POE to Eddie. I'm still stumped as to why scum would pop chairs, though, knowing it forces a 1v1. That would require some pretty adept commitment to the next day's strategy, I think.

Bolded fixes to clarify what my brain was doing while I typed.

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