576
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Would you buy Platinum in a Province game?
« on: December 13, 2012, 11:13:44 am »
I've bought gold for $9 on province games, so yes.
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577
Goko Dominion Online / Re: An offer to Donald X.
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:00:40 pm »The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
+10
578
Solo Challenges / Re: KC-Wharf tactics: pile drive colonies
« on: December 11, 2012, 03:08:59 pm »
did it in 12 turns, with first kc-wharf on turn 8 and again on turn 9. Takes some luck getting that to match up. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-120718-db9506ab.html
579
Solo Challenges / Re: KC-Wharf tactics: pile drive colonies
« on: December 11, 2012, 02:26:18 pm »
philosophyguy, if you post a game log, it shouldn't be hard to spot a problem. You should be getting a KC-Wharf around turn 10 at least.
Here's one where I got $118 in the final turn (15) - four hagglers allowed me to gain all 30 gold in one turn
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-112453-00b91915.html
Here's one where I got $118 in the final turn (15) - four hagglers allowed me to gain all 30 gold in one turn
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/11/game-20121211-112453-00b91915.html
580
Solo Challenges / KC-Wharf tactics: pile drive colonies
« on: December 11, 2012, 11:03:04 am »
I'm posting this in solo challenges, but i'm really more interested in how you'd go about this. This board has really strong support for KC-Wharf (as if it needed it), and I have a feeling it should be possible to pile-drive colonies within 13 turns fairly regularly.
Baron, Bazaar, Woodcutter, Colony, Duchess, Fairgrounds, Haggler, Jester, King's Court, Platinum, Trading Post, Wharf
I was able to pile drive colonies in 13 turns once out of several tries, but I seem to be averaging around 15.
I've been opening baron and getting a KC at the nearest opportunity. Would you get two wharves before KC? Gold before KC? When should you get a haggler?
Baron, Bazaar, Woodcutter, Colony, Duchess, Fairgrounds, Haggler, Jester, King's Court, Platinum, Trading Post, Wharf
I was able to pile drive colonies in 13 turns once out of several tries, but I seem to be averaging around 15.
I've been opening baron and getting a KC at the nearest opportunity. Would you get two wharves before KC? Gold before KC? When should you get a haggler?
581
Dominion General Discussion / How much of Dominion ability is memorization?
« on: December 07, 2012, 04:35:17 pm »
I hit level 40 today! Yay for me!
I was bragging about this to my friend who has played Dominion just a few times (let me tell you, he was SO impressed...), and he asked me how much of being good at Dominion is memorization. He was comparing it to chess, where, he said (I have no idea), you can improve a lot by learning how certain openings score against others, essentially. (If you're familiar with chess, great, but let's not compare chess and dominion cuz that's silly.)
Clearly, knowledge helps a whole lot in Dominion: for instance, Jack is a much better opener than it appears to the uninitiated, wharf is really strong and versatile, cursers are (usually) a very high priority early etc. My sense is that most of this can be picked up just by playing, though familiarity with DS and F.DS, councilroom (RIP), etc speeds up the process.
So I would say that memorization alone could get you to level 20 or so, but because, unlike chess, the setup of dominion is different every time, you need the skill of seeing how the cards interact. Of course, some combos come up a lot, and learning about those might get you to 30 (maybe), but the kingdom will perturb that knowledge. I don't think there's any way to obtain that skill besides playing.
So, how much of being good at Dominion is memorizing stuff, do you think?
I was bragging about this to my friend who has played Dominion just a few times (let me tell you, he was SO impressed...), and he asked me how much of being good at Dominion is memorization. He was comparing it to chess, where, he said (I have no idea), you can improve a lot by learning how certain openings score against others, essentially. (If you're familiar with chess, great, but let's not compare chess and dominion cuz that's silly.)
Clearly, knowledge helps a whole lot in Dominion: for instance, Jack is a much better opener than it appears to the uninitiated, wharf is really strong and versatile, cursers are (usually) a very high priority early etc. My sense is that most of this can be picked up just by playing, though familiarity with DS and F.DS, councilroom (RIP), etc speeds up the process.
So I would say that memorization alone could get you to level 20 or so, but because, unlike chess, the setup of dominion is different every time, you need the skill of seeing how the cards interact. Of course, some combos come up a lot, and learning about those might get you to 30 (maybe), but the kingdom will perturb that knowledge. I don't think there's any way to obtain that skill besides playing.
So, how much of being good at Dominion is memorizing stuff, do you think?
582
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« on: December 07, 2012, 03:21:11 pm »
Regarding Rogue, I think it's generally quite weak in 2P. Without strong trashing, it's likely to miss on the attack often - less so later in the game. The attack is considerably weaker than Saboteur (won't hit provinces/plats etc, Sab keeps digging till it finds s/t) and Sab is known to be weak. Often there's something in the trash that you don't want (e.g. silver, rats, curser/looter after curses/ruins are gone), and you must gain it, which is quite a pain.
On the other hand, I've had games where I draw my whole deck every turn, play a pillage, then rogue it back into my deck for next turn. Pretty hard to come back from a pillage every turn.
I will have another look at it - I haven't tried hitting my opponent hard with it. In any case, it's going to be most useful when you and your opponent(s) are going for engines. In BM, Rogue is a terminal silver+slow thief, which is terrible.
On the other hand, I've had games where I draw my whole deck every turn, play a pillage, then rogue it back into my deck for next turn. Pretty hard to come back from a pillage every turn.
I will have another look at it - I haven't tried hitting my opponent hard with it. In any case, it's going to be most useful when you and your opponent(s) are going for engines. In BM, Rogue is a terminal silver+slow thief, which is terrible.
583
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?
« on: December 07, 2012, 03:11:23 pm »The presence of Shelters brings Fairgrounds up to a potential 8 VP in an otherwise completely standard kingdom. (10 Kingdom cards, Cop/Sil/Gold, Est/Duc/Prov, 3 Shelters, and Curse = 20 different cards.) If the cards available can even remotely support that kind of "one of everything" approach, 8 VP for $6 is incredibly powerful and makes for some very fun games.My experience is that Fairgrounds (like menagerie) is way better with shelters, but 20 different cards is really hard to swing, even with knights. I'd guess that if you went for 20 cards and I went for 15, I'd get more FG than you. If you're playing with shelters and Black Market then maybe, but I still think you're better off aiming for 15.
584
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Math in Dominion
« on: December 07, 2012, 02:29:45 pm »
Just hit lvl 40 (happy dance). I am getting my PhD in physics. Probability is useful, but for me Dominion is all about foreseeing contingencies: how cards will interact, how to respond to attacks, how to adapt your plan when you don't get the buys you want early, and so forth. That doesn't take math, but it does involve analytical thinking.
585
Game Reports / Re: swingy cards are swingy
« on: December 06, 2012, 10:11:52 am »
That is nutty.
586
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Diamond (I know, everyone uses this name)
« on: December 05, 2012, 07:32:09 pm »
seems like the kind of thing that behaves very differently for different numbers of players.
587
Variants and Fan Cards / Wasteland
« on: December 05, 2012, 05:34:36 pm »
Wasteland
$6
Worth 2VP for each empty supply pile
I am new to this card creating business, and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this has already been put forward.
Clearly, this is worth the same as province if you end on piles. I'm not sure what fraction of games deplete one pile + provinces, but in those games Wasteland will be worth 4, like Fairgrounds usually is. Sometimes it'll be worth 2 and you won't buy it. There will be rare cases where you can get the last province/colony and empty another pile in one turn, but this is hard to pull off and worth rewarding.
If it's too strong, you could make it worth 2 +1 for each empty supply pile, which would make it strictly better than duchy but would require a strong duchy/other advantage if you're forgoing provinces for Wasteland. I don't think changing the cost to $7 is feasible.
$6
Worth 2VP for each empty supply pile
I am new to this card creating business, and I wouldn't be surprised if something like this has already been put forward.
Clearly, this is worth the same as province if you end on piles. I'm not sure what fraction of games deplete one pile + provinces, but in those games Wasteland will be worth 4, like Fairgrounds usually is. Sometimes it'll be worth 2 and you won't buy it. There will be rare cases where you can get the last province/colony and empty another pile in one turn, but this is hard to pull off and worth rewarding.
If it's too strong, you could make it worth 2 +1 for each empty supply pile, which would make it strictly better than duchy but would require a strong duchy/other advantage if you're forgoing provinces for Wasteland. I don't think changing the cost to $7 is feasible.
588
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Card-specific beginner traps
« on: December 05, 2012, 05:13:11 pm »But nobles are really their best when you have a village already. Using them for +3 cards and then only +2 when you have to is much more powerful.+1
589
Dominion General Discussion / Re: IRL Dominion setup
« on: December 05, 2012, 05:08:39 pm »Code: [Select]
Po Co Si Go Pl Sp
Ru Cu Es Du Pr Col
K1 K3 K5 K7 K9
K2 K4 K6 K8 K10
I put the kingdom cards in ascending order of cost from left to right.
590
Dominion Articles / Re: Beginner Strategy Guide Idea
« on: December 05, 2012, 04:45:53 pm »Even if you can reliably draw your deck, you usually want spare villages because of the gambler's ruin. Once you hit zero actions, your turn is over, even if you just drew 2 villages with your last action. If you have exactly enough actions to play all your terminals, your engine will fizzle whenever your villages are concentrated near the end of your deck. It's a bigger issue when your actions are primarily being used to support +draw then when they are primarily being used to support nondrawing terminals.right. extra actions at the end of your turn are useless, but extra villages prevent a hand of 2x smithy + treasure. Extra villages in general keep you from stalling out. Excess villages replace themselves whereas excess terminals are dead. This may be less important in certain circumstances, but as a rule of thumb, I'd say (if you want villages at all) get more villages than terminals.
591
Game Reports / Re: Dear My Opponent: I am Sorry
« on: December 05, 2012, 04:03:46 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-114001-0352ab31.html
Dear --Underdog--,
I'm sorry that I failed to buy a third silver. That drew the game out way, way longer than it should've gone. I mean, you clearly didn't respond to Ambassador correctly (Scrying pool was a questionable choice), but I spent some 20 (!) turns doing nothing but ambassador-ing (playing like 5 hamlets every turn) the ever loving crap out of you before getting a gold. And it didn't help that I proceeded to go for colonies from there. I'd have resigned well before turn 32. That was pain.
Dear --Underdog--,
I'm sorry that I failed to buy a third silver. That drew the game out way, way longer than it should've gone. I mean, you clearly didn't respond to Ambassador correctly (Scrying pool was a questionable choice), but I spent some 20 (!) turns doing nothing but ambassador-ing (playing like 5 hamlets every turn) the ever loving crap out of you before getting a gold. And it didn't help that I proceeded to go for colonies from there. I'd have resigned well before turn 32. That was pain.
592
Goko Dominion Online / Re: Ouch
« on: December 05, 2012, 03:24:44 pm »
Goko seems very good to me. The failure to launch was a big problem, but the article doesn't give it enough credit. It ends with "people say it's okay now", but in fact Goko's kinda awesome.
As a play experience, it far outstrips iso, at least for me. It's annoying that it can take a long time to get a game since there are few players, and iso's matching system is way better. But the look and feel are great.
As a play experience, it far outstrips iso, at least for me. It's annoying that it can take a long time to get a game since there are few players, and iso's matching system is way better. But the look and feel are great.
593
Game Reports / warehouse+menagerie made explorer work
« on: December 05, 2012, 01:30:49 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/05/game-20121205-100950-0807eb91.html
cards in supply: Explorer, Fortune Teller, Menagerie, Mint, Moneylender, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Tribute, Warehouse, Worker's Village, and Workshop
Opening observations: no strong terminals. Warehouse/Menagerie is the only thing with legs under it, but with no virtual money it's not going to be super-fast. Worker's village an ideal source of +buy (when you need the buy and the actions, it's killer for $4).
5/2 split was pretty unlucky for me; i went for a workshop (i don't often get workshops for $5!). My opponent didn't seem to have much of a plan, opening moneylender/silver and picking up an explorer and a workshop in the first reshuffle (so he'd gotten silver+3 weak terminals by the second reshuffle), so it's not too surprising that I won, but it was fun.
Most of my play was pretty predictable WH/Menag, except on turn 11 i pick up an explorer and WH with $10 and two buys (with one Prov in deck). With all the sifting it seems pretty clear that explorer can be made to work, and I'm cycling through my deck pretty fast, so I can expect to play it multiple times. I match my explorer with a province 3 out of 4 times and I pick up my fifth and sixth provinces on turn 16.
Would you have done anything substantially different? Other comments?
cards in supply: Explorer, Fortune Teller, Menagerie, Mint, Moneylender, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Tribute, Warehouse, Worker's Village, and Workshop
Opening observations: no strong terminals. Warehouse/Menagerie is the only thing with legs under it, but with no virtual money it's not going to be super-fast. Worker's village an ideal source of +buy (when you need the buy and the actions, it's killer for $4).
5/2 split was pretty unlucky for me; i went for a workshop (i don't often get workshops for $5!). My opponent didn't seem to have much of a plan, opening moneylender/silver and picking up an explorer and a workshop in the first reshuffle (so he'd gotten silver+3 weak terminals by the second reshuffle), so it's not too surprising that I won, but it was fun.
Most of my play was pretty predictable WH/Menag, except on turn 11 i pick up an explorer and WH with $10 and two buys (with one Prov in deck). With all the sifting it seems pretty clear that explorer can be made to work, and I'm cycling through my deck pretty fast, so I can expect to play it multiple times. I match my explorer with a province 3 out of 4 times and I pick up my fifth and sixth provinces on turn 16.
Would you have done anything substantially different? Other comments?
594
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Tactics
« on: December 05, 2012, 12:58:29 pm »
great topic. it's hard to find ways to talk about general tactical tips, i guess. Whether to reshuffle is a question that comes up a lot, but there's not really that much to say about it.
595
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ghost Town - village for handsize reduction
« on: December 05, 2012, 09:55:24 am »
what about if trashes from hand before drawing? That way it's pretty much guaranteed to draw at least 1.
EDIT: that doesn't work well with hand-size reduction. ah well. Maybe the trashing could be optional.
EDIT: that doesn't work well with hand-size reduction. ah well. Maybe the trashing could be optional.
596
Dominion Articles / Re: Beginner Strategy Guide Idea
« on: December 04, 2012, 03:06:25 pm »VillagesA few points. First is that there is a card called "village", so I'd make it extra clear that the word "village" isn't being used to refer to that particular card but all the cards with the attributes you name.
Villages give +2 actions, and then some other + as well (usually +1 card, but not always). There are many different types and some are better than others, but put simply: villages help you play more terminals.
· There is a Dominion concept called the Village Idiot. It is a player over-buying villages without good actions to pair with them. Playing villages just to play more villages accomplishes very little. Villages work with terminals. Without terminals, villages are often useless.
· I recommend you start getting villages if you have or plan on having 3 or more terminals in your deck. If you know you want to buy 3 or more terminals, I would get a village after the 2nd terminal and then try to get villages and terminals to a 1:1 ratio.
· Village and terminal buying is a delicate balance. Too many terminals cause dead cards, while too many villages leaves you with useless actions. We hate having action cards we can't play, but we also hate having extra actions with no cards to play. (Think about what other card that village could have been. Wasting buys on unnecessary villages also means you wasted a turn. When you only have 16 turns, one bad buy can really hurt.)
I'd say "Without terminals, villages are _basically_ useless" rather than "often", since the reason to have a village is to play multiple terminals in a turn (there may be other reasons, but they are at a higher level).
I also tend to want more villages than terminals, say 5:4 or 4:3.
597
Variants and Fan Cards / Ghost Town - village for handsize reduction
« on: December 04, 2012, 10:38:48 am »
$4
+2 Actions
If you have less than four cards in hand, draw until you have four cards
your thoughts? too niche?
+2 Actions
If you have less than four cards in hand, draw until you have four cards
your thoughts? too niche?
598
Dominion Articles / Re: Bandit Camp
« on: December 04, 2012, 10:30:17 am »It's actually much better in an engine that draws your whole deck. If you can reliably draw your whole deck then you're "wasting" a bunch of +Card, so you get a free +$3. If you can't, then that +$3 still takes up a card, so it's really only worth something like +$3 - the average value of a turn divided by the number of cards you go through in a turn.
Right. i'm wondering what it's worth in a deck that doesn't draw itself.
599
Game Reports / Re: Expanding Colonies into Provinces
« on: December 03, 2012, 05:13:16 pm »
I had to read the entire game log to figure out that "your turn" and "ednever's turn" refer to the same player. 
600
Game Reports / Re: Interesting Goons/Alchemist/Duke game
« on: December 03, 2012, 04:46:34 pm »
I'd aim for a long game, winning on chips with lots of goons, golems, stables, and hopefully at least 4 alchemists. This is basically the strategy you went for.
Point by point:
I'd say golems are key here as a source of +action for double/triple goons turns. Remake is great and has an added bonus of turning an early contraband into Goons later on, but remake + Golem is dangerous, especially with discard attacks, so I'd have to recommend a potion/silver opening. the Golem/Remake problem might not be all that bad here since you'd only need one Remake and you'd probably end of with lots of actions, but the potential for catastrophe would give me pause.
Once I had a decent number of alchemists and stables so that I can draw my deck some, I'd prioritize Golem over Alch, as it's going to get you a lot more Goons plays than additional Alchemists, and you're going to want to win on chips.
If you're in a good position, frequently playing more than one Goons/turn, and your opponent isn't buying up the provinces very quickly, then you can probably afford to skip provinces, buying up more golems which will keep your deck reliable. Otherwise, go for VP cards. (I'm pretty sure Duke is going to be way too slow here.)
I'd rather have copper than a transmute here. Stables will need targets and non-conditional trashers are tricky with golem (remake being perhaps the worst offender).
For Golem to work here, you want more non-terminals than terminals so that playing the Golem is unlikely to end your turn. If you play a lot of alchemists and stables before golem, then the golem won't work right since you'll have drained non-terminals from your deck. I'd probably start playing golems after ~3 alchemists/stables if I had to make a choice. However, I think it's not that likely that the problem would occur if there's a Goons being played every turn. (If this becomes a significant problem, that probably means you're in the lead anyway.)
Discarding 2 out of a hand of 5 alchemists only hurts if you reshuffle between drawing back up to 5. If you're running a tight deck that draws itself every turn, this is a major problem as you want the extras mixed in and not in the discard pile. If you're running a fat deck, like what I'm suggesting, they end up in the discard pile either way. In principle, you might rather have a hand of alch, alch, X (having discarded an alch in favor of X), but I can't think of a reason not to prefer playing 3 alchemists before I play X.
Point by point:
I'd say golems are key here as a source of +action for double/triple goons turns. Remake is great and has an added bonus of turning an early contraband into Goons later on, but remake + Golem is dangerous, especially with discard attacks, so I'd have to recommend a potion/silver opening. the Golem/Remake problem might not be all that bad here since you'd only need one Remake and you'd probably end of with lots of actions, but the potential for catastrophe would give me pause.
Once I had a decent number of alchemists and stables so that I can draw my deck some, I'd prioritize Golem over Alch, as it's going to get you a lot more Goons plays than additional Alchemists, and you're going to want to win on chips.
If you're in a good position, frequently playing more than one Goons/turn, and your opponent isn't buying up the provinces very quickly, then you can probably afford to skip provinces, buying up more golems which will keep your deck reliable. Otherwise, go for VP cards. (I'm pretty sure Duke is going to be way too slow here.)
I'd rather have copper than a transmute here. Stables will need targets and non-conditional trashers are tricky with golem (remake being perhaps the worst offender).
For Golem to work here, you want more non-terminals than terminals so that playing the Golem is unlikely to end your turn. If you play a lot of alchemists and stables before golem, then the golem won't work right since you'll have drained non-terminals from your deck. I'd probably start playing golems after ~3 alchemists/stables if I had to make a choice. However, I think it's not that likely that the problem would occur if there's a Goons being played every turn. (If this becomes a significant problem, that probably means you're in the lead anyway.)
Discarding 2 out of a hand of 5 alchemists only hurts if you reshuffle between drawing back up to 5. If you're running a tight deck that draws itself every turn, this is a major problem as you want the extras mixed in and not in the discard pile. If you're running a fat deck, like what I'm suggesting, they end up in the discard pile either way. In principle, you might rather have a hand of alch, alch, X (having discarded an alch in favor of X), but I can't think of a reason not to prefer playing 3 alchemists before I play X.