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Messages - scott_pilgrim

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1
Other Games / Re: Tears of the Kingdom
« on: June 02, 2023, 10:14:27 pm »
Related to the complaint multiple of us have had with how they didn't make it obvious when something needed more progression before being possible... a friend of mine just told me that last night he got to the Wind Temple, but hadn't yet talked to Tulin at all. Spend literally hours trying to complete it before finally giving up and looking up a guide, only to find out that it wasn't at all possible. Now has to spend a long time doing the very long path to get back there after finding Tulin.

I am assuming the teleport spot doesnt activate if you get there without Tulin, but even then, there is a shrine most of the way up there. Shouldn't be too bad.

But yes, it's part of the reason I am focusing on the main quest a lot.

You can activate the teleport spot, but it doesn't help because Tulin won't follow you when you teleport. Same is probably true for teleporting to the shrine.

FWIW, I think when I did it I did go to the shrine first without Tulin, and then he teleported there with me. But I could be misremembering things.

2
Other Games / Re: Tears of the Kingdom
« on: May 27, 2023, 08:53:52 pm »
I've just finished the fourth temple, and I've still barely even touched the depths (only as much as I needed for the fire temple). My feeling is that they are weirdly different sizes, with the fire temple feeling gargantuan compared to the water temple, and the sky and lightning temples being somewhere in the middle. I haven't been a fan of the boss fights so far, though I don't think I like boss fights in games in general. The boss fight in the lightning temple is super chaotic until you figure out how to make it not so chaotic, at which point it's only super chaotic very briefly. The fight in the water temple felt very tedious, but I'm guessing I was doing something wrong, which brings me to the reason why I don't like the boss fights in general: you have to solve a puzzle while frantically trying not to die. The puzzles themselves are not necessarily bad, nor is the trying not to die, but I don't think those two things go well together.

The "snapping" when glue-ing things together is a plus in my book, less fiddling about when the game only allows some angles.

I actually agree in general, largely because most of the puzzles are designed so you don't need fine rotations, and I've also since learned that to make smaller rotations, you just rotate the camera. My complaint though is more that it doesn't display what it's going to do until after you commit to doing it, so then you have to go back and break it apart if it didn't do what you expected. This doesn't matter very often, but when it does, it's annoying.

3
Other Games / Re: Tears of the Kingdom
« on: May 14, 2023, 11:08:14 pm »
3. I found the organization of the Great Sky Island misleading and confusing, and seems like there might be semi-soft-lock potential (by which I mean, you aren't technically soft-locked, but it takes significantly more skill to exit an area than to get into it). You do the first shrine, and then Rauru says, go do 2 more shrines. Look around and then put a pin on the map wherever you see them, then use the pin on the map to find it. Unless I'm blind, only one of the two shrines is visible from where you're standing when he says that, so naturally you would go to that one first. But the "direct" path there, I'm pretty sure, is not meant to be accessible. But it really looks like it is, so I spent about an hour and a half running around the snowy mountain area trying to figure out how to climb the icy walls near the top. I was eventually able to do it, by putting together an awkward mess of logs and a raft and balancing it at a funny angle in a little crevice, and then climbing the logs instead of the icy walls. I did the shrine, then eventually found and completed the other shrine, and only then did I find what I think is the intended path to the snowy mountain shrine on my (admittedly very convoluted) way back to the temple of time. It seems to me like they intended for you to do what I ended up doing after having already done the snowy mountain shrine, which is make a big loop around the island and hit the snowy mountain shrine on the way back to the temple of time. But I'm not sure how you would ever know to do that?
I think you're blind  :), both Shrines look quite visible.

Yes, you're right, I have no idea how I missed that. I looked all around many times and could only ever see the one...

4
Other Games / Re: Tears of the Kingdom
« on: May 14, 2023, 03:57:18 pm »
Basically, the game doesnít always make it clear if something is possible or not. You can waste a lot of time trying to do something thatís actually impossible (or impossible until later), but you get so close to succeeding that it seems like you could do it if you just do better.

Yeah, I think this is really the main problem I'm having. I just spent half an hour trying to find a clever way to avoid dying from fall damage in a particular shrine, only to give up and eventually discover that if I had continued the main plot, I would eventually get the paraglider making the problem trivially solvable. I doubt it's possible within reason to do the shrine I was trying to do without the paraglider, but it's not obvious that it's not possible, and it wasn't obvious to me that the paraglider would even be in the game at all, and the game had turned me loose so I thought it was time to go exploring.

5
Other Games / Re: Tears of the Kingdom
« on: May 14, 2023, 12:51:35 pm »
I started Friday night and overall I'm having a lot of fun with it. However, I've had a few frustrations/confusions so far, including:

1. As far as I can tell, you can't really angle the camera up or down while using ultrahand? This is especially annoying when you need to carry something a long way, like with the Korok escort missions.

2. Save states do not remember where things were? So if you take something with you a long way, save, and then die, you will respawn there, but the thing you took with you will reset to where it was originally. I think maybe this and the above are less problematic if you use capsules which I have not tried to understand yet.

3. I found the organization of the Great Sky Island misleading and confusing, and seems like there might be semi-soft-lock potential (by which I mean, you aren't technically soft-locked, but it takes significantly more skill to exit an area than to get into it). You do the first shrine, and then Rauru says, go do 2 more shrines. Look around and then put a pin on the map wherever you see them, then use the pin on the map to find it. Unless I'm blind, only one of the two shrines is visible from where you're standing when he says that, so naturally you would go to that one first. But the "direct" path there, I'm pretty sure, is not meant to be accessible. But it really looks like it is, so I spent about an hour and a half running around the snowy mountain area trying to figure out how to climb the icy walls near the top. I was eventually able to do it, by putting together an awkward mess of logs and a raft and balancing it at a funny angle in a little crevice, and then climbing the logs instead of the icy walls. I did the shrine, then eventually found and completed the other shrine, and only then did I find what I think is the intended path to the snowy mountain shrine on my (admittedly very convoluted) way back to the temple of time. It seems to me like they intended for you to do what I ended up doing after having already done the snowy mountain shrine, which is make a big loop around the island and hit the snowy mountain shrine on the way back to the temple of time. But I'm not sure how you would ever know to do that?

4. Things snap to weird angles with ultrahand. I just finished a shrine where the entire difficulty was just getting something to attach at the angle I wanted. Like, it would look perfect, so I press A to attach it, and then it would snap up to a way steeper angle that I couldn't walk up anymore. Probably there's a different intended solution that I was missing, but it's frustrating when it feels like the UI is the difficult part of the puzzle.

6
Good thing you said anything goes for the thing that makes the loot.

Manifestation of Will
2$
Night/Duration
At the start of your next turn: +1$, +1 buy
During your next turn, if you gain 3 cards with different names as each other, gain a Loot.

Rain of Fortune
7$
Treasure/Loot
You may reveal up to 3 Treasures in your hand. +$ equal to the $ they would produce.

If I play Rain of Fortune and reveal another Rain of Fortune from my hand, can I generate unlimited money?

7
Rules Questions / Re: Lantern, Elder, Harbor Village, Moat
« on: January 22, 2023, 10:04:33 am »
I'm going to assume you concede to my points then if you don't want to engage any further.

I am not following the discussion very carefully, but this seems like a really problematic approach. If your goal is to convince someone of something (which I would argue should generally not be your goal in these sorts of discussions, but that's beside the point), and then you declare (to yourself or to everyone else) "if this person stops engaging with me, that means I've convinced them", you essentially give yourself an incentive to do a bunch of things other than actually convincing the person. For example, someone might stop engaging with you because you are attacking them, or because you've shown yourself to be especially closed-minded on the topic, or because you're trolling them, etc. I'm not saying any of those things is what happened here, since I haven't really followed the discussion. But by equating "this person has stopped engaging" with "this person agrees with me", you incentivize behavior in yourself that is probably not conducive toward producing actual agreement.

8
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: January 16, 2023, 11:12:26 am »
There's also a misconception that rape is committed almost exclusively by men against women which is also very prevalent in pop culture. While it is probably true that that is the most common type of case, there is actually a lot of male victims, probably around 30-50% of victims or something like that IRL, and way more female perpetrators than is shown in pop culture, although it is extremely difficult to reliably estimate the real numbers because statistics only show what people are willing to talk about, and a lot of these cases where one or both of the genders of the people involved are atypical go unreported because of stigma. Meanwhile, I can only think of one female-on-male rape that I have ever seen in a work of fiction (it was in Kara no Shoujo).

Where do you get that data from? 50% seems an extremely high exstimate.

When I went looking for it, most available statistics give 10% or less as a percentage of male victims (e.g. here, here or here). Now granted you claim that atypical cases are underreported (though if 50% of rape victims were male, how is that an atypical case?), but it seems a leap to just assume the actual numbers are that much higher.

Note that in the CDC data (your first link), "made to penetrate" is not considered to be rape. This might be a tactic to downplay the severity of rape when the victim is male (by considering it to be somehow fundamentally different from "forced penetration", even though the psychological consequences are believed to be the same). Comparing the lifetime numbers in tables 2.1 and 2.2 gives about 22 million women and 7 million men (adding the 5.5 million "made to penetrate" cases and 1.5 million "rape" cases), but for the 12 month data it's 1.27 million women and 1.267 million men, so just about 50%.

Now I think it's reasonable to consider all of what the CDC lists as "other sexual violence" to be rape, in which case the ratio is about 26% male according to the lifetime data, and 43% male for the 2010 data. In any case, I don't think a 30-50% range is unreasonable (especially considering again, that men are probably less likely to recognize their experience as rape, and even when they do, are less likely to report it).

My understanding (though I might be wrong about this) is that these data often exclude prison rape, which is actually a considerable percentage of total rape cases and the overwhelming majority of victims in these cases are male.

9
Quote
Dragon
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration
Choose one: +$3, or gain a Gold or a Treasure from the trash.
The next time any player gains or trashes a Treasure costing more than $5, each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck and trashes a card costing between $3 and $7.

A trashing attack designed to work with Loots (but not directly).
I know it's almost strictly better than Bandit and maybe too similar, but it's what I came up with anyway...
You don't need to say "gain a Gold or a Treasure" since Gold is a Treasure

I assume they mean "gain a Gold, or gain a Treasure from the trash", although this is one more word on an already wordy card. You could switch them to say "gain a Treasure from the trash or a Gold" which is the same number of words but unambiguous.

10
I think you may have misunderstood exfret's point. You originally claimed that the self-trashing is advantageous because you don't want the card in your deck (for long). exfret is suggesting that if you don't want a card in your deck, then it's probably a weak card. It's not that all one-shot cards are weak, but rather if a card being one-shot makes it stronger, then it must have been a very weak card to begin with. (This argument doesn't quite work literally because of the VP which stays with you forever, but I think it's a reasonable approximation.)

11
Choose zero: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +ONE_MONEY .

Watch out for the combo with Elder!

12
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #164: Read the Fine Print
« on: September 27, 2022, 02:19:44 pm »
Quote
Mad Alchemist - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may put a card from your hand onto your Tavern mat, for +2 Cards and +1 Action.
-
Setup: Each player takes Toxic Vapors.

Quote
Toxic Vapors
State
When scoring, -2% per 5 cards you have on your Tavern mat (round up).

This drawback is not nearly harsh enough. If you put your whole starting deck onto your mat, you'll have -1 VP net, whereas if you trash your whole starting deck, you'll have 0 VP. So it's only slightly worse than just trashing cards. Then you also have the option to thin other green cards. So I think this is actually better than just +4 cards, +1 action, trash a card, which would be completely busted at $4.

I'm not sure if there's a reasonable ratio of -VP/card(s) where the card is balanced, but I do think the idea of thinning at the cost of VP is neat and has potential.

13
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: September 18, 2022, 01:21:32 pm »
So, I didn't want to post this in Steve's (or Scott's? Which name is appropriate for internet friends?)

To clarify, both names are made up, so might as well call me Scott for practicality, but I don't really care one way or the other.

Also, I wouldn't have minded if you posted in that thread, it certainly seems very relevant. I definitely agree that while pain (physical and emotional) serves a practical purpose, there's no reason it needs to get as severe as it sometimes does, and if we could somehow cut off or dull down the negative end, that would be a huge win for humanity.

I suspect you're right that there are many more people who live in the negative extremes than the positive extremes, but one thing to consider is that you're probably less likely to hear about people living in the positive extremes, because they don't have a problem to solve. They're not actively looking for help, so we don't hear about those people as much.

14
Variants and Fan Cards / Dominion: Inventions (WIP)
« on: September 04, 2022, 03:03:54 pm »
Dominion: Inventions

Let me emphasize that this is a work in progress. I came up with the mechanics a few days ago, made a list of cards, and did a handful of playtests (just enough to get through all the cards and landscapes once). Iím hoping to update this as I do more testing, but I also donít really know how much time and effort Iíll end up investing in this. Part of that might have to do with feedback from the community on whether they think these ideas are worth pursuing. Anyway, Iíd like to see what peopleís thoughts are on the mechanics and card-shaped things. I suspect Iíve made a lot of oversights and people will probably have good suggestions for tweaks I can make and stuff before I sink too much time into playtesting.

Builders and Inventions

Inventions are sort of a hybrid between Allies and Projects. Each Invention is a large landscape card with a track and some instructions on it. Builder is a kingdom card type, like Liaison. Each game, if there is exactly one Builder in the kingdom, choose two Inventions for that game; if there are two or more Builders in the kingdom, choose three Inventions for that game. At the start of each game, each player puts a disc of their player color on the first space of each Inventionís track. Any time a player receives +1 Build, they choose one Invention to advance their disc on, one space. If a player receives, for example, +5 Builds, they can make a total of 5 disc advancements, distributed among the Invention tracks however they like (for example, they could move 5 times on one track, or 3 times on one track and 2 times on another, etc.). You are not required to use all your builds; you may always choose to make fewer advancements than the number of Builds you are instructed to get.

Some Inventions will have a ďpingĒ effect. Whenever you have reached the end of an Invention track, and you get +1 Build, you may choose to pseudo-advance on that track to instead get the ping effect. For example, Wagon says ďPing: +1 CardĒ. That means that every time you choose to advance on the Wagon track, but canít (because youíre already at the end), you instead get +1 Card.

Notation

I havenít mocked up cards yet, so right now everything is text-based. For each Invention track, I use S to mark the first space of the track, and then x to mark empty spaces. Some spaces on tracks will have symbols or numbers on them (which have effects specified on the Invention). Iím using * and ! as generic symbols, explained in the text of the Invention. For Clock, a=10, b=11, c=12.

Card-shaped thing list

Right now, Iím aiming for the size of a small expansion, with 14 kingdom cards, plus 31 Inventions. Every kingdom card is a Builder. Here is the full list:

Inventions:

Printer
When you reach or pass a * space, get +$1.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: S*

Yoke
When you reach or pass a * space, get +1 card.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sx*

Water Wheel
When you reach or pass a * space, get +1 action.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: S*xx*

Pen
When you reach or pass a * space, get +$1; when you reach or pass a ! space, get +1 buy.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: S*!

Paper
Ping: +$1
Track: Sxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Wagon
Ping: +1 card
Track: Sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Windmill
Ping: +1 action
Track: Sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Safe
At the start of each of your turns, get +$x.
Track: S0000000111111111122222222222333333333333334

Cogs
At the start of each of your turns, get +x cards.
Track: S000000000000111111111111111222222222222222223

Horse Mill
At the start of each of your turns, get +x actions.
Track: S00000001111111111222222222222333333333333334

Crossbow
When you reach or pass x, each other player discards down to x cards in hand.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sx4xxx3

Alchemical Vat
When you reach or pass *, each other player gains a Curse.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sxxx*

Steel
When you reach or pass *, each other player gains a Copper.
Track: Sx*x*xx*xx*xxx*xxx*xxxx*

Flamethrower
When you reach or pass *, you may trash a card from your hand.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sxx*

Glass
End of game: Score 4 VP per disc behind or on top of yours.
Ping: Move each other player's disc back one space on this track.
Set-up: In an x-player game, put a disc in an unused player color on the spaces marked x.
Track: Sxxx2x3x2xxxx

Calendar
End of game: Score x VP.
Track: S01122233334444455555566666667

Factory
When you reach or pass x, gain a card costing up to $x.
Track: S0xx0xx2xx3x3x4x4xx5xx5xx6xxx8

Canal Lock
During your turns, cards cost $x less (but not less than $0).
Track: S00000000001111111111111222222222222223

Accelerator
Ping: +2 Builds that can't be used on this.
Track: Sxxxxxxxxxx

Telescope
At the start of each of your turns, you may discard your hand and draw x cards.
Track: S12334445555566666667

Clock
When you reach or pass *, each other player draws a card. End of game: score x VP.
Track: S**0*0*0*00*000*112233445566778899aabbc

Piano
When you gain a card, if you are not on the start space of this track, you may move to the start of the track to put the gained card into your hand or on top of your deck.
Ping: +1 Buy
Track: Sxxx

Telegraph
At the start of your turn, if you are furthest or tied for furthest ahead on this track, move your disc back two spaces and if you did, +1 card and +1 action.
Ping: +$1
Track: Sxxxxxxxx

Steam Engine
When you reach or pass *, play the set-aside card, leaving it there.
Set-up: Set aside an unused non-Command, non-Builder Action card costing $2 or $3.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sxxxx*

Compass
At the start of each of your turns, look at the top x cards of your deck, discard any number of them, and put the rest back on top in any order.
Ping: +1 card, discard a card.
Track: S00111222233333344444445

Eyeglasses
At the start of each of your turns, +x cards and then discard x cards.
Track: S00001111222223333334

Greek Fire
At the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $x more than it.
Track: S011111222222233333333334

Fireworks
The first time you play a non-Builder action card during your turns, play it an additional x times.
Track: S000001111111111111111222222222222222222223

Luxury Train
When you play a card costing $x or more, +$1.
Track: S7766666655555555554444444433333333222222222222110

Scale
When you reach or pass a * space, gain a Duchy or a Silver.
Ping: Move your disc back to the beginning of the track.
Track: Sxxx*xxx*

Land Mine
At the start of your turn, for every two spaces between your disc and the furthest-ahead disc on this track, reveal a card from the top of your deck. Discard each revealed Action or Treasure card, and put the rest back on top in any order.
Ping: Move each other player's disc back one space on this track.
Track: Sxxxxxxx

Kingdom Cards

Pioneer   
$2; Action-Builder   
+1 card, +1 action, +1 build   
   
Refurbish   
$2; Action-Builder   
+1 Action; Trash a card from your hand. +1 Build per $ in its cost.   
   
Laborer   
$3; Action-Builder   
+2 cards, +1 buy, +1 build   
   
Weapon Designer   
$4; Action-Attack-Builder   
+$2, +1 build; Each other player gains a Curse, and if they did, gets +2 builds.   
   
Builders' Village   
$4; Action-Builder   
+1 card, +2 actions, +1 build   
   
Architect   
$4; Action-Builder   
+5 builds   
   
Builders' Guild   
$4; Victory-Builder   
2 VP   
--   
When you gain or trash this, +3 Builds.   
   
Tinker   
$4; Action-Builder   
Gain a card costing up to $4. If it costs...   
   $4, +1 build
   $3, +2 builds
   $2, +4 builds
   $1 or $0, +7 builds
   
Craftsperson   
$4; Action-Attack-Builder   
+$2; For each option, either you do it, or each other player does it if they have 4 or more cards in hand (your choice):   
   Gain a Copper to hand;
   Discard a card for +1 build;
   +1 card and discard 2 cards.
   
Machinist   
$5; Action-Builder   
+3 cards; you may discard any number of cards for +1 Build each.   
   
City Planners   
$5; Action-Builder   
+2 cards, +2 actions; Each other player gets +1 Build. If this causes another player to get +$, +buys, or +actions during your turn, they instead draw a card and discard a card for each $, buy, or action they would have gotten.   
   
Design Plans   
$5; Treasure-Builder   
+$2, +2 Builds; Each other player may trash a card from their hand.   
   
Vendor   
$5; Action-Builder   
+1 card, +1 action, +$1, +1 build   
   
Redstone   
$6; Treasure-Victory-Builder   
+$1, then +$1 per Invention you have maxed out on. +2 builds. If this causes you to ping, -$1 per time you pinged (to a minimum of $0).   
--   
Worth 1 VP per Invention you have maxed out on.   

Commentary

Letís walk through some Builders and Inventions, to better understand what they do.

Pioneer is the simplest Builder - itís just a cantrip +1 Build - so a lot of the Inventions are easiest to digest in the context of Pioneer. Likewise, Printer is the simplest Invention, so letís start there. A good number of Inventions have a ping effect that jumps you back to the start of the track. Printer is one of those Inventions. Essentially, this makes the track a loop. In the case of Printer, that loop only has two spaces on it, so you will get the +$1 every other time you (try to) advance on the Printer track. In essence, Printer means that +2 builds = +$1. Then Pioneer-Printer is, in some sense, half a Peddler.

Likewise, Pioneer-Yoke is a third of a Laboratory, Pioneer-Water Wheel is two fifths of a Village, Pioneer-Alchemical Vat is a fifth of a Familiar. You get the idea.

Some Inventions have sort of the opposite approach. They donít do anything when you advance on them, but then once youíve maxed out, they activate a powerful ping effect. For example, if youíre willing to put in the effort to max out the Paper track (which accomplishes nothing as you go), youíll eventually turn your Pioneers into Peddlers! Wagon and Windmill are similar, requiring even more investment to max out, but giving +1 card (Wagon) or +1 action (Windmill) instead of +$1.

Safe, Cogs, and Horse Mill donít do anything at the moment you reach certain spaces on the track, nor do they do anything when you ping. Instead, they act like (potentially very strong) projects, that require some effort to activate.

Glass, Calendar, and Clock all donít do anything for you during the game, but give you VP at the end of the game. Calendar-Pioneer is the notorious cantrip +VP, but it works because you max out eventually (and there are diminishing returns). Glass leaves it up to the players how much effort they should put into fighting over 4 VP. Clock is like Calendar, but you have to help out your opponents before you start getting rewarded with VP.

Accelerator turns the other Invention track(s) into more delay-for-power versions of themselves. It is probably the most concerning to me balance-wise. The one game I played with it, there just wasnít enough time for it to be worth going for. But I imagine in other games itís super strong. Iím worried it might be terribroken.

There are pseudo-attack Inventions, like Crossbow, Alchemical Vat, Steel, and Land Mine. These cover the typical discard, junking, and mucking attack roles (thereís no trashing-attack Invention because I couldnít come up with a good one, and people donít like trashing attacks anyway). Steel (hopefully) works as a Copper-junking attack because it stops after 7, not after the Coppers run out. Perhaps it scales badly in multi-player, though.

Steam Engine is fun, it could be anything, but itís a fixed effect for the game itís in. When I playtested it, I got it with Watchtower on a Goons board, so it gave some of the Builders a nice draw effect.

There are some Inventions Iíve skipped commenting on for now, you can read them and think about them yourself if youíre interested.

Now what about the kingdom cards? Well as mentioned earlier, Pioneer is the most obvious card, and when evaluating how good or bad an Invention is, I try to think about how it is with Pioneer. Refurbish is the obvious TfB. Architect is the obvious pure, terminal +builds. Weirdly, Architect seems the most concerning to me balance-wise. I havenít figured out yet why this is the case, but playtesting seems to suggest that Pioneer is good with the looping tracks and Architect is good with the pinging tracks. Architect-Wagon-Accelerator is comically busted, eventually giving you +10 cards with every play of Architect, but Iím not sure if thatís Architectís fault or Acceleratorís fault, or maybe Wagonís fault. By contrast, Pioneer-Wagon-Accelerator, when fully activated, gives you dirt cheap double-labs, but somehow that doesnít seem quite as ridiculous. On the other hand, Pioneer-Printer is a half-Peddler, something you would reasonably pay $2 for, but Architect-Printer is a terminal +$2.5, quite weak for $4. (In fact, Architect originally wanted to be $3 for +4 builds but I couldnít justify it with the looping Inventions.) So maybe the conclusion should be that the looping tracks are too weak compared to the pinging tracks? Not sureÖ

Laborer and Machinist are terminal draws, with Machinist being the natural discard-for-benefit. You can kill your turn for +7 builds if thereís something youíre really looking to advance on quickly, but I think of it more as a Smithy with the potential to convert cards you donít need into something useful.

Thereís also an idea of a one-shot build, like an event that converts $ into builds, but that ended up as Buildersí Guild. I imagine itís fun with Greek Fire, but I havenít tested that combo yet.

Buildersí Village, Vendor, and Design Plans are all pretty vanilla and donít need much exposition. Letís get to some of the more interesting cards.

Tinker is the setís Workshop variant. You can use it like a Workshop with a little boost - or if thereís a $2 you want, with a big boost; or you can junk yourself for +7 builds. If thereís lots of trashing or itís late in the game, the self-junking option can be tempting.

Weapon Designer is the setís Cursing attack. I like things that give other players +builds, so itís a little like Soothsayer there. Heuristically, itís slightly worse than ď+$2 and curse everyoneĒ, which I imagine is a strong $4 (though in some games, itís actually better than that). Iím open to the possibility that itís still too strong. I had a playtest with Weapon Designer-Steel, and it was kind of funny because you could Curse everyone and then theyíd throw Copper back at you.

Craftsperson is probably my favorite card in the set. There are three questionable items, and you have to decide whether each one is good or bad. I think this concept is fun, but I have no idea if itís balanced, and Iím also a little worried about unlimited Copper-junking.

As mentioned with Weapon Designer, I liked the idea of a card that gives other players +build, hence City Builders. The compensation for +$/actions/buys is there because I didnít like that, without it, in some games it would just be Lost City without the drawback. That being said, I worry that City Builders is too weak. For example, with Yoke, you give them a card on every three plays, which seems a lot more generous to them than just giving them a card once when you gain it. And even then, they have the flexibility to choose whatever other Invention(s) are out instead. I had a playtest game with City Builders and Crossbow, which is a funny but kind of interesting anti-combo. You want to spam City Builders, but if you get carried away, you have to discard all those cards youíve been drawing. But perhaps with smart play order and the right engine, you can mitigate the pain of discarding.

By the way, I noticed a subtle political issue with City Builders and Crossbow if thereís 3 or more players. If someone is drawing a million cards with City Builders, do you advance on Crossbow to spite them, or do you advance on another Invention to do something that benefits yourself, hoping the next player does the Crossbow? I donít like this, but I think itís pretty minor and only comes up with this specific combo, so I donít think itís worth addressing.

Finally, thereís Redstone, which is probably the card Iím most likely to scrap, just because itís clunky and weird. I wanted a card that interacted with Inventions in a non-standard way, which basically means, caring about where you are on the track. But the tracks are all different lengths, so you canít say something like ď+$1 per 2 advancements youíve madeĒ, because that might suck if the Inventions are Printer and Yoke, or be broken if the Inventions are Clock and Luxury Train. But, all the tracks have a start and an end, so maybe you could do something using those. Well itís hard to do anything using the start of the track, because you donít want to reward players for never using +builds, and you also donít want to just say ďdonít be on the first space of the trackĒ, because well thatís really easy to do. So, Redstone rewards you with $ and VP for being at the ends of tracks.

Now you might wonder why the -$1 per ping. The idea there is that the really short tracks usually have a looping-ping, so if you want to actually make use of their effects multiple times, you have to pay $ for it. And thatís fair, because the short tracks are much easier to reach the end of, making Redstone produce more money and VP for them. The longer tracks with ping effects have stronger ping effects than the shorter, looping ones, which you're more likely to be willing to pay for.

Game Reports

This section is empty so far. If I play interesting games, I'll report them here.

Card-shaped thing Images

Maybe I'll mock up the card-shaped things some day, you never know.

To do

I think I should rescale Clock and Calendar, Clock doesn't get better until 6 VP...

15
Submission:

Quote
Name: Minister
Cost: $5
Types: Action, Liaison
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain or lose Favors until you have exactly 5. Each other player gets +2 Favors.

16
Scott_pilgrim

Vikings: Since these cards are all quite similar Iíll just group them together. I do think that Valhalla is priced fairly since the on-gain effect makes it much more difficult to obtain multiple of them than Provinces (Provinces also obviously have the game end condition tied to them, whereas these do not). The main problem I see with this pile is that the third card will likely be skipped over most of the time. Starting off with a Novice, you can either not rotate and gain another Novice (which of course doesnít accomplish anything) so you would rotate and gain a Privateer. The next turn you could either rotate and gain a Paladin, or a Valhalla, and then rotate back into Novices. Unless a player chooses to gain the lower value Paladin for themselves, this cycle will never stop until all the Valhallas are gone. I think that a pile like this is interesting and could work out, but the rotations need to be reworked to make all 4 cards have more equal appearances.

I could be mistaken but I think your analysis here is off. Assume a non-mirror. First I get a Novice. Then I use it to gain a Privateer, and then return the Novice. Now the pile has a Novice, then 3 Privateers, then 4 Paladins, and then 4 Valhallas. When I play Privateer, the next card I can get is Paladin, not Valhalla. That was the intent anyway, that you would have to play all 3 in the non-mirror to get to Valhalla.

Edit: Although since there's only one Novice on top, you could buy it back before playing the Privateer to skip over Paladin. I think that's actually a valid concern.

17
My submission:

Quote
Name: Novice
Cost: $3
Types: Action, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

Quote
Name: Privateer
Cost: $4
Types: Action, Victory, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings up to two times. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

1 VP

Quote
Name: Paladin
Cost: $5
Types: Action, Victory, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings up to three times. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

3 VP

Quote
Name: Valhalla
Cost: $6
Types: Victory, Viking
7 VP

Intresting minigame to get points. Because the cards go to the top of the deck, this is going to quickly become a messy deck, and rotating the deck with only Novices will be as if you didn't rotate at all for the first buys. Kindof like a traveler, but more unique. If there was a way to get Valhalla more expensive, it would be good, so that they aren't strictly better than provinces, 2+ duchies, or 3+ estates. (Currently, if you buy the last non-valhalla on Valhalla, you are setting the next player(s) up for getting good cards.

Also, once the Valhalla's are gone, there is no benefit for you to get one, or to not trash the ones you have. I suggest either upping the costs to 3/5/7/9 and giving Paladin VP and both Privateer and paladin an additional effect would be good. Once the first Valhalla has been grabbed, only sabotage and cost references can make Paladin be more desirable than Novice.

For what it's worth, I had forgotten to put the on-gain rotating on Valhalla; it's there now, which might change your analysis a little. Thanks for the feedback though! It sounds like you might have missed that Privateer and Paladin are also worth VP? And I think the fact that Valhalla is strictly better than Province (and Paladin strictly better than Duchy) is fine because they're generally not going to be available during your buy phase unless you put some extra effort into it; but I could be wrong about that.

18
My submission:

Quote
Name: Novice
Cost: $3
Types: Action, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

Quote
Name: Privateer
Cost: $4
Types: Action, Victory, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings up to two times. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

1 VP

Quote
Name: Paladin
Cost: $5
Types: Action, Victory, Viking
You may rotate the Vikings up to three times. Gain a Viking. Return this to the Viking pile.

3 VP

Quote
Name: Valhalla
Cost: $6
Types: Victory, Viking
7 VP

When you gain this, rotate the Vikings.

Edit: Added the on-gain to Valhalla (it was intended to be there originally, I just forgot it).

19
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 01:11:15 pm »
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I, prisoner #1, can open a box, then decide which box to open next, then open that box and decide which box to open next, etc. I can't go talk to prisoner #2, but my point is that I don't have to decide my set independently of f.

20
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 01:01:49 pm »
But each individual learns information about f as they go; S and T can be generated adaptively as you see what each box outputs.

21
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 12:51:02 pm »
Thinking a little more, I think it actually does come back to independence. In your proof, S and T are chosen independently of f, but in reality they don't need to be.

22
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 12:46:10 pm »
Okay, this is a lot more subtle than I thought. I believe your proof now. I *think* the problem is that it doesn't actually apply to the original problem.

In your proof, you imagine choosing S and T to be whatever you want, and then drawing a random function, and asking about the probability that that random function is consistent with S and T. In the actual problem, you draw a random function first, and then set S and T based on the random function. Since there's no communication allowed after the game starts, this sounds like the same thing, but I think it's not. For example, if you could set S and T such that S contains f(1) and T contains f(2), the probability would be 1. Obviously you can't do that, but the solution could potentially exploit some structure in f after it's been drawn. That is to say, you set some algorithm, then draw a random function f, and then run the algorithm on f to somehow generate S and T. I'm convinced this is different from what you do in your proof, but it's hard to say more without giving away the answer.

23
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 12:23:45 pm »
I've thought about it more carefully and I think the answer is that in the line where you count the number of "good" f's, you assume that s \neq t. If s=t, then there are 99! "good" functions, not 98!. The sets S and T could potentially be chosen such that s=t more often than expected it random.

Wait, I think I've confused myself about what s and t are doing. 1 and 2 are always different, so I think that line is actually correct...

24
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 12:14:05 pm »
Similarly for f(1) only, it would give only an upper bound.

It's still clear that the bound is incorrect, because if S and T were chosen to be the same, the probability would be 0.5, not 0.25.

I don't get it :( where am I using independence?

I've thought about it more carefully and I think the answer is that in the line where you count the number of "good" f's, you assume that s \neq t. If s=t, then there are 99! "good" functions, not 98!. The sets S and T could potentially be chosen such that s=t more often than expected it random.

25
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Re: The Necro Wars
« on: August 21, 2022, 11:22:31 am »
Your proof would work if S and T were independent, randomly drawn sets of size 50, but that's not the case here. For example, it would be easy to modify your proof to show that the probability that f(1) \in S and f(1) \in T is also 50^2/(100*99), but if S and T are chosen to be complements of each other, the actual probability is 0.

Sorry, this would actually be 50^2/100^2, but you get the idea.

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