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Messages - Just a Rube

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Games where alt-treasures are important (potion was mentioned, but Fool's Gold is also a good example) can sometimes make thief useful, especially if there is already enough trashing (e.g. chapel) that the extra copper trashing isn't significant and the odds of whiffing are lower. And that usefulness scales with more than two players, obviously. I remember giving an opponent conniptions when he tried to use fool's gold with heavy trashing to build an engine around; my thief kept sniping his economy.

But it's very much a niche card, one of the nichest. Which is both the problem and one of the reasons it's still better than The Card Which Must Not Be Named; thief is actively bad in 95% of games, but in the remaining 5% it's golden. TCWMNBN, on the other hand, is nothing in 95% of games, and slightly better than nothing in the remaining 5%.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Scout is bad, not horrible?
« on: June 01, 2015, 07:45:58 pm »
My point: Scout, Spy, Thief, etc. almost always suck.  They sometimes win you the game.
And the counter is that while Spy, Thief sometimes win you games, Scout never has that shining case. The best we've been able to determine is Scout/Mystic, in which it becomes, at best a lab. Now that's good ($5 value for a $4 card), but even there it's only that way if you have a high enough mystic density to draw 4 mystics in the same hand (plus 4 cards) as Scout. That's not winning the game.

But the biggest problem with scout is always the opportunity cost. Yes, you can imagine decks where having a Scout will help somewhat. But the thing is, you never just have a Scout magically appear in your deck (barring things like Swindler). You have to actively choose to gain Scout instead of some other card that you could be buying/workshopping/etc. at the same time. And that card will almost always help you more than Scout will. Dominion is not a long game; why are you wasting time getting a less useful card when you could be getting one that will help you more? And that's not even getting into the issue of having a Scout in your hand instead of some other card.

Hmmm. How well does Hunting Party interact with PStone? Playing HP increases your hand size, but it's much better at filtering out and finding an individual PStone if you manage to bloat your deck up really fast.

If there's Hunting Party in the kingdom, you can probably do something a lot better than Philosopher's Stone.
Especially since the potion adds another unique card to your deck.

Dominion Articles / Re: The 10 words card summary challenge
« on: April 26, 2015, 10:06:35 pm »
Jester: Buy for gain, not attack. Gets much better in multiplayer.

Ill-Gotten Gains: Gain them all? Boom, two piles gone! Now empty duchies.

Thief: Stealing money seems good? But wait, opponent's coppers are gone!

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ferry
« on: April 21, 2015, 08:44:11 am »
I think it's worth to note that the card costs less on your turns, not just for you. So by ferrying to King's Court, not only is it cheaper for yourself to gain, it also makes it a legitimate target for your Knights etc. And other players can sometimes take advantage of the cost reduction during your turns, like when you trash with Governor.
Yes, I'm looking forward to the first log where somebody swindles Goons to Scout

Dominion Articles / Re: The 10 words card summary challenge
« on: April 16, 2015, 07:13:35 pm »
Vault: Buys Gold. Gold Buys Province. Likes Tactician, Scrying Pool.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion Achievements
« on: April 11, 2015, 04:25:19 pm »
Inheritance allows for all sorts of crazy shenanigans, especially with Borrow/Baker:

-I don't like these cards: Buy a card from the Black Market deck before your first shuffle.
-I prefer this card: Before your first shuffle, gain a card with a potion in its cost

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: French Preview : Pistage / Quête
« on: April 10, 2015, 07:00:37 pm »
Clearly it should be Pistachio.
But how does it combo with Bacon Cheeseburger?

Dominion: Adventures Previews / Re: Preview: Messenger
« on: April 02, 2015, 08:37:36 pm »
So this would be like Ill-Gotten Gains, where you can give out curses and they can't use Moat or Lighthouse to stop it, right? But unless you have a Watchtower, (or perhaps a Trader depending on the ruling by Donald X), you will get a curse also. So would there ever be a rush to use this as a curser like Ill-Gotten Gains?

No, unless your deck can handle the cursing a lot better than you opponent's deck there's no reason to buy this turn after turn to share the curses. And since getting to a deck that can handle curses well takes time, you won't be seeing a IGG-like rush with this card.
Not to mention that a lot of what makes the IGG rush so powerful is that it empties 2 piles at once, while giving something that can still buy things reasonably well. On the other hand, a Messenger Rush would involve buying a bunch of terminal Wood-Chancellors, and still only empty one pile (while not actually winning the curse split).

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion song parodies
« on: December 29, 2014, 10:27:34 pm »
Well the Seaside of Dominion
Is the baddest part of town
And if you go down there
You better just beware
Of a card name of Pirate Ship

Now Pirate more than trouble
You see he cost exactly four
All those downtown ladies call him "Treasure Lover"
All the men just call him "Sir"

And he's bad, bad Pirate Ship
The baddest card in the whole damn strip
Badder than old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog

Now Pirate he a gambler
And he like his fancy clothes
And he like to trash them treasure cards
Under everybody's nose

He got a Philosopher's Stone
He got Ill-Gotten Gains too
He got a Platinum in his pocket full a fun
He got a Silver in his shoe


Well Friday 'bout a week ago
Pirate makin' trash
And at the top of the deck
Sat a card named Copper
And oh that card looked flash

Well he cast his eyes upon her
And the trouble soon begat
And Pirate Ship had learned a lesson
'Bout a-trashing with the junk of an engine deck


Well the two decks took to fighting
And when they pulled them from the floor
Pirate looked like a jigsaw puzzle
With a couple of pieces gone

And it's bad, bad Pirate Ship
The baddest card in the whole damn strip
Badder than old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Homage to the Best Card
« on: December 24, 2014, 10:38:39 pm »

You don't get the gift until after your turn, and only if you didn't play any Attack cards.
Actually, in that case you get a curse in your stocking.

I don't think I'll have time for another game for a while. So I'll just watch from the sidelines ;D.

Some more retrospective:

I always fully intended to stab Germany if possible; I wanted to make sure I was the only one who could build fleets outside of the Mediterranean. I was definitely counting on one of Turkey or Austria to take advantage of the war (either to hit Germany or to start fighting each other, which would leave me free from worry on that front). I had always been a little suspicious of Germany from the opening (where he seemed eager to get England and I to commit to fighting each other while he stayed on the sidelines), although once he finally committed he was solidly helpful. Also, with England dead, there was no longer an excuse for my fleets to hang out up there, so I knew it was now or never. Sadly, I botched my opening stab, and A/T seemed content to beat up on Italy while we fought each other. Ironically, Austria finally made his move right after Germany and I had effectively negotiated a peace treaty; if he had done it a few turns earlier, I probably would have continued fighting, but as it was I wasn't really in a position to capitalize.

Germany and I were talking to each other pretty much the entire time we were fighting (both times), which made it easy to guard against a Turkish or Austrian solo. Sadly my negotiations with Austria and Turkey were less strong (although I was amused, reading the QTs, that both Turkey and I decided to play the angry, hurt victim at the same time as a negotiating tactic), which may have had something to do with their decision to stay out. Like Germany, I expected the A/T alliance to fall apart when they were no longer actively fighting, which also surprised me. I had been halfway expecting the German stab (indeed, I was planning on using my next possible builds to defend against it), but it still caught me well out of position. I had initially planned on retreating to Ska (in the hopes of either tying down 2 fleets for one, or grabbing a center), but when Germany left Hol open by mistake, it was too good to resist. Which was probably what most doomed Germany's attack; if his A Ruhr had blocked me on my stab, my F Kiel (and thus avoiding losing a unit that turn) saved me from his stab. Plus I was able to work reasonably well with Turkey (who agreed not to grab Tunis/the Med until after I had stabilized my lines against Germany).

Germany and I had worked out to form another stalemate line against Turkey (which probably would have gone into effect this coming turn, especially with Turkey's somewhat threatening final moves) if the game had gone on. At the same time, I was somewhat nervous about another German stab potentially reducing me to playing kingmaker. So I was very glad when Turkey mentioned in a QT that he was planning on proposing a 3-way draw. Once again, thanks to everyone who participated; I had a lot of fun and learned a ton.

Thoughts from my first full, 7-player game:

-Breaking through the Franco-German border is hard.

-It is apparently impossible to backstab an ally without making at least one critical error (I think my mini-stab of 1-center Italy was the only one that didn't involve something going horribly wrong, though at least the Austrian retreat to Naples didn't affect anything long term).

-We actually managed a great pace; thanks again to everyone involved.

BOOOO! Kingzog, you had it! :(

Maybe, but I think attacking France lets Germany gain ground. I'd need to set up to get most of my centers at once, but Germany and France would see that coming a mile away.

Did the spectators have access to the other threads? I'd like to see the other countries threads.
They're linked from the first post in the spectator thread. And now I'm going to do an archive binge.

BOOOO! Kingzog, you had it! :(
Nah, we had the stalemate line all ready to go this turn.

Thanks again to everyone for playing, and to WalrusMcFishSr for moderating.

I also agree to a 3-way draw.

Good game everybody!


Can I have an extension of a day or so? I'm traveling for the holiday and won't be thinking Diplomacy thoughts.


You too.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: JSH's Art Rankings
« on: October 29, 2014, 09:48:49 pm »
How do you know that they're not talking about a man? "That Scout doesn't seem very competent, I think you should have a Silver instead."

Well, I figured the Dominion-equivalent was just that there were multiple women and no men on the card.
I assume you're excluding Harem for obvious reasons then?

Also, what is with the right-most misfit in the Band of Misfits? That can't be comfortable.

The current speed is fine for me, but if it will help others participate more, I'm ok with an extension.

As others said, having more conversation will probably improve the game. And if it means everyone can get their moves in on time, that's obviously a benefit as well.

And the format wars continue!

7 sets of orders, 7 different formats -- I love it!
Actually, I managed to have different capitalization schemes on all three of my orders, so there were:

7 sets of orders, 9 different formats.

I'd like to claim I was drunk, but I was actually just tired.

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