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1

Rules Questions / Shuffling and the lose track rule.

« on: June 22, 2013, 04:16:37 pm »

Does shuffling always trigger the lose track rule, or is there a caveat that it has to be more than 1 card when shuffling to trigger it?

Consider the following scenario:

- deck: 0 cards
- discard: X cards
- in hand: watchtower, develop, and some card costing 4

- you play develop, choosing the 4 cost card
-- choose inn to gain, inn is gained to top of deck (now the only card in your deck)
--- you order the when gains as follows: inn, watchtower
---- inn when gain: no actions revealed, deck that is still only size of one is now "shuffled"

At this point has the watchtower now lost track of inn because the deck's been "shuffled"?

I mainly ask because the FAQ (http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Complete_and_All-Encompassing_Dominion_FAQ#toc54) doesn't cover the 1 card shuffle:

You Develop a card costing 4 coins into an Inn (and another card costing 3). The Inn is gained to the top of your deck, and you have a Watchtower in your hand. You can now resolve Inn's when-gain ability and Watchtower's Reaction ability in any order. If you do Inn's first, the Inn is shuffled into your deck. Watchtower has now lost track of the Inn (it's expected to be on top of your deck), so you can't reveal Watchtower to move the Inn to the top of your deck.

I realize this is a case where we KNOW that the inn hasn't been covered up, but I'm just curious if the game is allowed to know the same thing.

Alternatively, can a one card deck not be considered to have even been shuffled in the first place and this was a completely useless thread?

2

Rules Questions / Throne Room/King's Court/Procession + Outpost

« on: June 10, 2013, 11:32:49 am »

Hey all, been lurking for awhile now but I needed to finally sign up in hopes of having a question answered that's been bugging me all night.

If you TR/KC/Procession an Outpost, when exactly do those two cards get cleaned up?


Based on the rulebook/rulings, in my mind it would look something like this:

Normal Turn:
- Play King's Court, choosing Outpost
-- Play Outpost, setting up later ability: draw only three cards during this turn's clean-up, take an extra turn after this one
-- Play Outpost, setting up later ability: ..., take an extra turn after this one (2 extra turns total due to accumulation)
-- Play Outpost, setting up later ability: ..., take an extra turn after this one (3 extra turns total due to accumulation)

- During clean-up phase:
-- Discard cards
--- Outpost still has effects that haven't been resolved (draw only three cards, 3 extra turns) so it and its modifier card (King's Court) stay in play
-- Draw only three cards, satisfying one of Outpost's effects

Attempt to take extra turn:
- succeeds, satisfying one of Outpost's effects

Extra Turn:
- During clean-up phase:
-- Discard cards
--- Outpost still has effects that haven't been resolved (2 extra turns) so it and its modifier card (King's Court) stay in play
-- Draw five cards

Attempt to take extra turn:
- fails, Outpost can only allow two consecutive turns, Outpost has now resolved all of its effects so it and its modifier card (King's Court) are still in play, but will be cleaned up during next turn's clean-up phase


I'm worried that I'm missing something though because I haven't been able to google anything confirming the above behavior. A bit of the opposite in fact, there's a few posts on this forum pertaining to Pin strategies involving KC + Outpost, and they seem to list those two cards getting cleaned up in that extra turn's clean-up phase.

Looking at what Donald said over at BGG (terribly sorry if linking elsewhere is prohibited) http://boardgamegeek.com/article/5397175#5397175 about Outpost not knowing whether it's giving the extra turn until it actually succeeds or fails to do so, the scenario I laid out above seems like it should be correct.


Any help would be greatly appreciated. As I said, this has been bugging me all night and I don't know if I'm being incredibly stupid or if I've missed something quite simple.