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1
Innovation General Discussion / Rule Change Proposal: Drawing Beyond 10
« on: November 22, 2013, 12:01:08 pm »
I've noticed that Measurement and Almanac allow for for some quick games *especially* with No Place. It just seems like a silly way for the game to end. That said I would like to propose the following:

If you would draw a card beyond 10, draw a 10 instead. If you cannot, the game ends...

2
I've just gotten back into Isotropic, and this is something that I was curious about.

(It is possible to draw from more than one Tactician in one turn. However, I will leave it as an exercise to the readers to determine how it is done.)

3
Dominion World Masters / Dominion WM Kingdom Sets
« on: November 09, 2011, 05:06:01 am »
This may already be posted somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Does anyone know where they are?

Thanks,
fp

4
Level 10- Oscar [The Grouch] Is Your Friend

Hopefully, you have figured out that in this article I am going to talk about the Trash and how effective it really is. This is an important concept in Dominion, and to a newer player it can very counter intuitive. “Why would I want to get rid of my own precious cards?” It is a tricky question to answer. So let us see if we can answer that question.

The simplest explanation is that it gives you more effectiveness for each of the cards you buy. Suppose your deck is twice as slim as your opponent's. Then, that means that every card you buy is going to be used roughly twice as often, and hence all the improved cards you buy will be twice as effective.

In the last article, I pointed out the in order to buy a province or a colony, in essence, you need an average of $1.6 or $2.1 per card. Now, the obvious way to increase this average is to buy cards- most notably treasures that provide more $ than your average. However, conversely, one can increase this average by getting rid of (i.e., trashing) cards that provide less than your average. In fact it often gives you more of an advantage.

Let me give you a mathematical example. Suppose you have a set of 5 numbers which add up to 10. In order to increase the average, which would be better, to increase total by 1 to 11 or to decrease the quantity of numbers from 5 to 4?  Of course, it is simple arithmetic exercise to see that, in fact, it is better to decrease the denominator (11/5 = 2.1 versus 10/4 = 2.5). Moreover, in most any similar situation, it correct to decrease the denominator if the current average is significantly larger than 1. To translate into Dominion terms: trashing can be more effective buying!

Now, let us give a specific Dominion example.  It is the early game and suppose your deck currently contains 7 coppers, 3 estates and a Silver, and a Steward. You have A Steward, a Silver, an Estate and a 2 Coppers in hand. Consider two choices: Buy a Gold (using the +$2 function on the Steward) or trashing the Estate and a Copper and buying a Silver. For the first choice you are buying the all precious Gold; however, your average becomes: ($1*7 + $2*2 +$3*1) / 13 cards = $1.076 (here we count the Steward as a $2). Whereas for the second choice, you do not get the all precious Gold, but your average becomes: ($1*6 +$2*3)/ 11 cards = $1.091. The difference is small, but important. But further, imagine gaining an advantage of $0.015 each turn. That adds up! In the end it means you are going to be in province or colony territory (e.g. when your average breaks $1.6 or $2.1) a turn or two faster, that equates to buying one or two big point cards more than your opponent- which is often more than enough to win the game!

On the flip side of things. While it is helpful to decrease the number of cards in your deck, it is also equally helpful (or more appropriately hurtful) to clog your opponent's deck. Clearly, the best (that is, most hurtful) way to clog the opponent's deck is with curses. However, there are a few other attack cards that can “clog” you opponent's deck. Including Ambassador, Swindler, and Ghost Ship.

Before I continue, I should point out a very helpful and resourceful website: Councilroom.com
Thanks to Larry and rreneud, there are many many compiled statistics about various Dominion cards.
In particular, click here, http://councilroom.com/popular_buys, and click the “Win rate with column.” twice (this is will assort it in desending order). Loosely speaking, this will sort all Dominion cards in the average “score” each cards yields when it is bought or willfully gained. Let us look at the top 10 cards on the list (without the “always present” treasures or victory cards or prizes) in order:

Montebank
Witch
Familar
Grand Market
Hunting Party
Masquerade
Ambassador
Ghost Ship
Sea Hag
Venture


I should make one remark about this list (actually I'm just reiterating what the same remarks on Council Room): It does not take into account causation. In particular, one cannot conclude that buying these cards will cause you to win the game. One might buy a particular card because he or she is winning in order to preserve his or her lead; or conversely, one might buy a card not on this list because he is losing. For the most part, I feel vary confident that the cards above cause a player to win instead of the other way around, but you should be wary of this as you browse Council Room further.

One observation to make about the list is that a majority of them either trash (or return to the supply) or and/or adds cards to the opponent's deck (mostly the later). THAT'S how vital controlling the quantity of cards in your deck is.

Some key points:

1. Trashing is often underrated by new players.
2. If Chapel is on the board, BUY IT! While it is not as imperative, the same things go for Steward, Lookout,  Loan, Montebank, and Witch.

One additional remark I should make about the list from Council Room is that it considers the results of all players. Most particularly, if both players buy a card, then the average “win rate” for that game will be 1 regardless of who wins and who loses. Hence, the list above is a list of cards that are far better to have when playing against players who choose to pass on them. Specifically, the list is a list of underrated, yet effective cards. Chapel, Steward, Lookout and Loan do not make the list because most players buy them, and you should too!

3. In the early game, when in doubt, trash your cards.

Trashing cards is only effective when your deck is small. As the game continues and you grow your deck, trashing cards will become less worthwhile. If you are going to feed Oscar, do it early, or he will be grumpy.

4. Curses are much bigger of a deal than -1 VP

Newer players get view things in terms of points. After all, that is the point of the game. And in relative terms losing a point here and there is not that big of a deal. However, the key thing about the curse is not the loss of a victory point, but rather the fact that a curse clogs the opponent's deck. For a practical example, when you are Tortured, you are almost always better off discarding two cards than gaining a curse (unless you have a way to trash or otherwise use the Curse). For if you were to take the curse, you would would effectively be discarding (rather, forfeiting) one card every time you drew the curse. If you gain a curse in the early to middle game, you will still see it 4-5 times over the course of the game and that is 4-5 cards lost compared to the 2 cards you could have discarded up front.

Finally...

In this article, I have presented some good points and advice I would like to pose an alternative variant to players (at least of the players of the physical game):

“When a player 'gains a curse,' the card is placed in front of that player face-up along with his or her victory point chips (instead of wherever it might normally go), and are applied to that player's score at the end of the game as normal. In this variant, Curses cannot be trashed or discarded (say for Montebank)”.

The idea here is that Curses act like -1 victory point chips instead of clogging the deck.

Feel free to try this variant and post your feedback.

5
Tournaments and Events / Any GenCon or WBC news?
« on: August 07, 2011, 12:20:43 am »
-

6
Puzzles and Challenges / Cost This Card #1- Jack's Court
« on: July 28, 2011, 01:34:40 pm »
[Jack's Court]

Choose an action card from your hand. Play it thrice. Trash this card

7
In the Dominion world, there is a phrase: “Village Idiot”. It refers to a player who has played the game only a few times before, and in those games, he or she bought too many action cards to play. He soon realizes that “villages” are, sometimes, key, and as a result, he buys them all up only to take long turns consisting of “Village, draw, Village, draw, …, …, 4 coppers, buy Village”. The Village Idiot is a common phenomenon, and it is a hard habit to break. In this article, I want to give players some pointers to help them break this habit.

Today's lesson is: “Money makes your deck go Round.”

It is very easy (even as an experienced player) to get caught up with all the cool cards on the board and forget to buy the cards they actually need!

Why you need money.

A typical Dominion game is going to determined by Provinces or Colonies. And in short, in most cases, if you can not buy Provinces or Colonies, you cannot win! To buy a province you need $8 in your hand which is an average of $1.6 per card in your 5 card hand, and for a Colony it is $2.2 per card. Now observe that when you start the card you have on average $0.7 per card. That means in order to win the game, most often, you need to more than double or triple the purchasing power in each of your hands!
 

6 Important Rules About Money

1. In general, money is more important than action cards; they do not cost you actions!

First, I should emphasize, “in general.” This is not a hard and fast rule. And the essence of becoming a better player relies heavily an determining when an action card which offers a better alternative to money (say, for example when to buy a Witch or not). However, the ultimate goal of the game is to buy point cards. Buying a bunch of cool cards which do not provide money, no matter how cool that are, is generally not going to help you buy Provinces or Colonies any faster.

2. When in doubt, buy Treasures.

Many times, a player will draw $6 on the third turn and buy a $5 card because they really want the “cool” action card. However, the truth of the matter is that the Gold in the early game is more likely to propel your middle game that that $5 action card. (Of course, there can be exceptions). If you draw $6 on your third turn, more often than not you should buy the Gold. You can often buy that Rabble later. Having $6 or $7 in the early game is probably not a chance you will again soon. Take advantage of it!

3. For your first two buys, look for what will get you the money you need to by more expensive cards.

A dominion game can be viewed as a complicated ladder. The main question you should ask yourself is “How will what I buy now help me buy something more expensive later?” If you keep that question in mind when deciding your buys, you will improve your game. For example, while a Workshop is very efficient in terms of money, it does not let you climb the ladder!

4. Buy “Villages” only if you need them.

A good rule of thumb is that you only need “Villages” (that is + 2 Action cards) only if you plan on exceeding 1 “terminating” action card per 5 or 6 cards in your deck. Here “terminating” means an action card that does not give +Actions in itself. If you only have 2-3 non-terminating actions in your 20 card deck, then you really do not need any “Villages”. The odds that you will draw more than one is minimal, and so, you should spend your buys on more useful cards (e.g., Gold).

5. Conversely, avoid terminating actions if you do not have “Villages”.

The previous concept works in reverse as well. If you do not have any “Villages,” then your deck should be limited to 1 terminating action card per 5 or 6 cards. Since a typical deck well end with between 25 and 30 cards, this means you should stick to between 4 and 5 terminating actions. Further, you should pick and choose those 4 to 5 terminating actions cards extremely carefully, as when you buy  such a card, you will likely be stuck with it for the duration of the game, and it will take up a valuable spot as one of your few action cards.

6. In Colony games, Platinum are key!

The $5 a Platinum offers is a huge advantage. Many colony games can be characterized as the one who gets the first Platinum wins. To put things into perspective for a Province game, your average card must offer $1.6 and a Gold offers roughly twice that. However, in a Colony game, your average card must offer $2.2 and a Platinum offers roughly two-and-half times the average. That is, Platinums are more essential in a Colony than Golds are in a Province game.

Let me give you a real  example- the game long can be found here: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110612-023533-ee18122f.html. It was a late night, and I went over to my friends' apartment (handle: Pat) and happened to see him playing on Isotropic. He was playing a game where he happened to miss the Alchemist with a hand of 3 Estates, 2 Coppers, and a Potion after playing a Watchtower on the third turn. This is ordinarily catastrophic, however, the board featured alternatives to the Alchemist in the form of Watchtower and Hamlet. In any case, as the game went, the opponent was claiming all the Alchemists and was able to draw most of his whole deck each turn. In order to win this game, we needed to focus upon money We realized that one can have all the smart people in the world, but if you have no money, they are just going to stand there.  On turn 11, Pat  bought a Gold, and two subsequent turns later he was able to buy a Platinum. As the game progressed, Pat had more money that the opponent. So while the opponent was able to draw more cards, Pat was able to buy bigger and better things. Pat was able to grab the first Colony, and with a 3 to 1 advantage on Platinums, he was able to leapfrog the opponent upon buying the last Colony.

The point here is that, for the most part, at some point in the game you need money. Buying cool cards can help too, buy many times those cool cards (especially cards that draw cards) will not help you unless you have money to support them.

Next time we will make friends with Oscar the Grouch on our way to Level 10.

Until Next Time,
Spin your world with $,
fp

8
Council Room Feedback / Seperate Win Rates for Colony/Province games
« on: July 26, 2011, 03:32:21 pm »
Is this feasible? I think it would shine much light on certain cards.

9
Dominion General Discussion / Opening Quiz...
« on: July 26, 2011, 03:26:07 pm »
One thing I plan to do soon is to set up an Opening Quiz where players can look at a board and choose openings and compare their answers to other (typically less experiences)( players. However, I need a few (8-10) more experienced players to set a seed (e.g. "correct answers") for the quiz. Please pm if interested. I hope to have it up by the end of the week.

10
Dominion General Discussion / Never Ending Game?
« on: July 21, 2011, 06:40:59 pm »
Earlier today, I was thinking that it is theoretically possible for no player to be able to end the game.

If all the players buy up all of the Coppers and Curses, and all of the Coppers are trashed, it is possible for no player to be able to end the game at all- even if they wanted to.

The question is: Is there a board where this is at all plausible? Even if given that all players want to play optimally?

11
Dominion Isotropic / Feature Requests
« on: July 21, 2011, 03:47:50 pm »
1) Pass And Play

A friend mentioned this to me, so at the least, he would be interested in it. He is very interested in games where he can whip out his iPad and start a game. Currently, such an option is not available.

2) Option To Be Notified When a Player has more than Half of the Available Points (if possible)

It would simply be nice for the computer to remind all the players when one player has definitely won the game. A small portion of games seem to drag on and on, and the opponent does not realize his chance of winning is definitely 0. I play a lot of Dominion, but I would prefer to play more :-)


12
Rules Questions / Masquerade and Watchtower
« on: July 13, 2011, 09:27:24 pm »
In a game the other day, I thought I was slick by playing both Watchtower and Masquerade. However, when I was passed a card, the Watchtower option never came up. Is this correct?

13

Dominion has been growing recently- and with that questions regarding competitive Dominon has started to come forth. Does it exist? How does it work? And so on. Another question is: How does one make it fair and fun?

That is a tricky question. Dominion certainly does have its unfun moments and unfun moments- and many times that are induced by unlucky occurrences: not going first, bad shuffles, or most especially poor openings.

Now we are going to compare the situation to Bridge. In Bridge, there are deals where one pair is clearly favored to gain points on the hand just based upon where the cards lie. In order to mitigate that luck factor, Bridge tournaments typically feature a “Duplicate Bridge” format where the exact same deal is played by a large proportion of pairs. The each pair scores points NOT based upon whether they win or lose on the hand, but how they perform relative to the other pairs.

A similar concept could be implemented with Isotropic (or similar electronic scheme) in Dominion.

Simply put, the idea is simple: Given a large number of players playing the same board, all of the players in first position (or second) will have the exact same shuffles.

The technical details are as follows:
At the start of the game, the game generates 80 (or however many) random permutations of the numbers 1 through 100 for each position (e.g. the first player and the second player) which is kept secret. For the i-th shuffle, the i-th permutation (restricted to the appropriate numbers) is used to determine the order for that shuffle. Where the numbers corresponds to cards in the order in which they were added to the deck.

Example 1:
This scheme guarantees that all of the players playing first have the same opening hands and that the players playing second have the same opening splits.

Example 2:
If the first permutation (restricted to 1 through 12) for the first player is (6,3,9,10,12,1,4,2,7,5,8,11), then the after the first shuffle, the two cards (the 11th and 12th cards) bought before the first shuffle will be placed in the 12th and 5th position. If the player playing first neglects to buy a card during his first two turns, the single card bought will be placed in in the 11th position (as the 12 in the permutation is ignored). The key point here is that in order to promote fair and fun games, ALL of the players playing first for this game will have a “dead” buy.

There are, of course, other finer details to hammer out, but before I present them in a boring detailed manner, I was wondering if this idea interests people at all. Keep in mind that players need not be aware of any of the details.

14
Hello, the next article in the series is delayed. It contains commentary for some games which I am currently seeking permission to use. Otherwise, it is ready to go.

Thanks,
fp

15
The variant is simple:
Each player sets aside an additional Copper at the start of the game.

Each turn, if a player has yet to play the copper, he chooses:
 Play (and subsequently trash during cleanup) the Copper
OR Score X (even fractional) VPs

The question is:
What is the appropriate value for X?

I am going to guess around 0.6 but I could be way off here.

16
Dominion General Discussion / Is Dominion Autobot for real?
« on: July 01, 2011, 09:25:23 pm »
It has been playing on isotropic. It is faster than my pace for play, and it is not listed on the Leaderboard or at Council Room.com. Seeming to pass my Turing test.

Thoughts?

17
Dominion Isotropic / Isotropic Point Counter
« on: June 26, 2011, 05:57:52 pm »
Just a thought: The isotrpoic point counter for auto-matches only has there options (of the top of my head): "Require", "Don't Care", and "Don't Allow". I think it would be nice to have to the option of "Prefer" and "Don't prefer".

-fp

18
General Discussion / Math Nerds...
« on: June 24, 2011, 06:09:09 pm »
As one who is mathematically inclined, I cannot help but notice all of the math-related handles both here and on isotropic. Who else is out there?

19
Of course, the simplest answer is: Unless you have a good reason not to, discard the two cards.

However, the exact answer is definitely more complicated than that. Does anyone have any inputs about this?

20
Dominion Articles / Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginnning
« on: June 24, 2011, 02:27:06 pm »
Hello everyone, I have been away for the past week from Isotropic- which seems like forever. In any case, for the past month, I have been writing articles ranging gauged at players with various levels of experience, and I have decided to write my articles in a series called "making it to Level 42". (I should add that I have not reached that plateau yet). I plan to cover things from- in the importance of money, trashing, shuffling, and everything in between. Now, let's do this!

***

I've been addicted to Dominion Isotropic, and have gone from a mediocre player to a top 40 player in the past 6 months. As I play, I continue to see players misplay and learn from all the concepts I have learned along the way to becoming a top 40 player. And now, I will share some of my wisdom with you.



Making it to Level 42: Level 1- The Beginning

We are going to start at the bottom, for that is where you start. In this article, I am not going to give any gameplay advice because realistically, reaching level 1 does not require any gameplay advice. Instead, I will explain some pointers regarding the mindset you should have when starting from the bottom.

1. Do not get frustrated; you are going to lose sometimes, and sometimes badly.

There are a lot of subtle concepts in Dominion that take time to understand. As you begin to play Dominion, you are going to play against players better than you, and sometimes MUCH better than you. And other times, the cards just will not shuffle your way. If you lose, learn from it. Even if you lose 100-3, pick yourself up, and see what you could have done better. But further, sometimes the score does not tell the whole picture. Even if you lose badly, the game was probably closer than you think.

2. Dominion has a lot of luck- you CAN'T win every game.

The second thing you should understand is that you are not going to win every game. Dominion has a large element of luck. Sometimes you are just going to get unlucky. Even the BEST players on Isotropic lose 36% of the time. Sometimes your buys will be “dead” (I'll explain that in a later article), and so your draws will not be effective. That is simply how it works. Your skill can only take you so far.

3. Dominion has a lot of skill- you CAN win much of the time.

The flip side of the coin is that it is possible to win 64% of the time. Every time you play, win or lose, you should reflect on what moves you made and whether or not they can be made any better. Many times, I see players wrongfully attribute their losses to luck. When you play, you should first ask yourself what you could have done to have improved your performance, and never, blame it on luck. It is easy to blame luck, but rarely is it luck.

4. Practise make purfect, Practize makes perfict, practive makes perfect, practice makes perfect!

Learn by playing. I teach college mathematics, so let me give you an analogy I give my students:
You can watch people do math just as you can watch people lift weights. However, watching people lift weights does not make you any stronger. Similarly, watching people do math, is not going to make you much better at math. In order to improve your muscles, your mind, or your ability, you have to struggle, or in other words, PRACTICE: you have to lift weights YOURSELF. The same is true with Dominion. Many times I will propose a game online with a player of a much lower rank (in part because no one else is on), and they decline- presumably because they are afraid. You should embrace the opportunity to play players better than you, to learn and practice. But further, when you play much higher ranked players, you should never have the mentality that you are going to lose. Take your time, think you can win, and go for it!

The Next step: Level 5- Money Makes Your Deck Go Round.

Until next time,
Keep Dominionating,
fp

21
Feedback / Previous/Next
« on: June 17, 2011, 06:57:08 pm »
I am used to Previous/Next transferring between pages within a topic, so I've been clicking the Previous/Next links on the lower right thinking they will take me from Page 1 to 2 (or vice versa) of a topic but they are actually links between topics. Is anyone running into this and/or finding it unintuitive?


22
Variants and Fan Cards / What would you like to see in Dominion?
« on: June 16, 2011, 05:32:30 pm »
Just curious.

23
It is a silly question; however, consider that drawing 3 cards causes more shuffling and hence, less use.

24
Council Room Feedback / New Method to Rate Cards?
« on: June 16, 2011, 05:10:39 pm »
The "Win Rate" is an okay measure regarding how good a card is, but it just does not seem to do it here is why:

Every game where each player buys a particular card, that will automatically contribute 1.00 toward the "Win Rate" of a card. Hence the "Win Rate with" columns really measure underrated yet effective cards and the "win rate without" effectively measures overrated ineffective cards. The question remains, how does one accurately measure just effective cards regardless of overratedness?

Here are some ideas, none of which are to be taken too serious, just bouncing ideas:

Top 100 +% (The +% but only among the Top 100 players)
Top 100 Win Rate With
Top 100 Win Rate Without

Average number of points per copy.
Average score difference(s).

Average number of Turns until first Province/Colony buy when bought
Average number of Turns until first opposing Province/Colony buy when bought

Any thoughts?


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