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1

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Iso or Goko?

« on: February 25, 2013, 09:37:43 am »

+'s
Card art
Dark Ages
Relatively quick gameplay if your opponent knows what they are doing
Relatively short wait for a game if you find an opponent who you enjoy playing with and agree to matches
Player base that is growing in competitiveness
It is completely free and I am finding that many people I play with own all the sets

"Relatively short wait for a game if you find an opponent who you enjoy playing with and agree to matches" is about as backhanded a compliment as I can imagine.  The wait time if you have an opponent to play multiple games with ought to be basically zero.

How is the wait time if you just want a competitive game against a random person?  For Iso it's ~10 seconds.  My limited experience on Goko says that it's a lot more.  Would those who play more disagree?

I definitely see how that can sound back-handed.  But compared to 3 months ago when I would log on to Goko only to wait 20 minutes to end up in a game playing base dominion, things are moving alot quicker now.  It is better than it used to be (and dark ages is fun).

Nothing is faster than Iso at the moment.  No argument there.

For me, the two things that need to be addressed asap are the lack of automatch and the lack of any sort of misclick protection.  I ended a turn the other day with 10 coin + 1 buy due to an accidental click...and it was happy to let me.

2

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Iso or Goko?

« on: February 19, 2013, 06:17:56 pm »

This past week I have been heading over to Goko more often than Iso - primarily for access to DA cards. As previous people have said, the experience is reaching a point where I might shell out the dough for cards.  I have to agree that it lacks the same kind of competitive feel as Isotropic. But if they continue to take player requests into account, and the player base continues to grow as it currently is, it may get there.

+'s
Card art
Dark Ages
Relatively quick gameplay if your opponent knows what they are doing
Relatively short wait for a game if you find an opponent who you enjoy playing with and agree to matches
Player base that is growing in competitiveness
It is completely free and I am finding that many people I play with own all the sets

-'s
Lack of automatch means considerable wait times in situations other than what I mentioned above
Lack of any sort of misclick protection - major annoyance as you get used to the interface
Lack of a log that is actually usable during gameplay (w/o opening the log screen)
Lack of a single room - I general bounce between the occupied rooms to find games
Issues with dropped players/disconnects
Occasional bugs
The revamped store with a megapack that costs more than the individual sets combined

Regarding the IP debate.  Most boardgame companies require payment for access to the online equivalent.  Hasbro has most of their games out through Pogo.com - which costs $5 a month.  Settlers of Catan also cost $5 a month for access to all expansions etc.  At the end of the day, one can go onto Goko and play base for free, with a high probability of playing all sets for free (because someone else paid).  I know money doesn't grow on trees, but $45 isn't that much to ask for access to an online player base of dominion players w/ the chance to play cards from all sets.  THAT is the privilege you are paying the $$$ for, and it is something that was not promised to you when you bought the physical sets.  Heck, I've had hangovers that cost me well over twice that. 

Lastly, I think its clear that Goko is marketed towards people who prefer to play Dominion online.  People like the top 10 on Isotropic who have logged an average of 5500 games per player (and I'm guessing tat and dekomri are alts, which would inflate that number).  That's less than a penny a game if they were playing on Goko. 

But if you don't want to pay...don't.

3

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Alchemy on Goko

« on: February 18, 2013, 11:09:27 pm »

Cheapest seems to be:
Intrigue, Seaside and Prosperity at 70 each = 210,
Hinterlands, Alchemy and Cornucopia in Super Pack 2 at 140
DA at 110
Total 460.

So...lemme get this straight.

The MegaPack, which they claim is the "best offer", is 80 gokoins more expensive than buying the sets Watno priced out.  That gets a big ol' dubya tee effffff.

Now, if you factor in pricing discounts for buying gokoins in bulk.  You could spend $40 exactly and have 460 gokoins for everything that is currently released.  Or, you can spend $45 and have 540 gokoins and blow them all on the same set via the Megapack.  Or, you can spend $45, get the 540, spend the coins on the sets as Watno priced out, and have 80 left over for when they release Guilds...

Regardless, the pricing scheme is currently very confusing and a misrepresentation of a perceived deal.

4

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Level?

« on: February 17, 2013, 09:30:11 pm »

Correct.  I would say that when higher ranked players play, the outcome is heavily based on opening decisions and the first two shuffles.  That's not to say the game is absolutely decided by turn 6, but the pace is definitely set.  Whereas a newbie probably does not realize the implications of drawing 2 coppers and a potion on turn 5 (with familiar on board).

5

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Level?

« on: February 16, 2013, 05:31:50 pm »

I'm a mid level 30 and I think something I have become hyper aware of in my last 1000 games or so is how luck actually factors into this game.  This is not something I really thought much about about when I was learning the cards, learning strategies, and just generally how to play.

Lose a grandmarket race in a mirror match.  Open witch/chapel only to have them collide on turn 5 and miss the reshuffle.  Have someone's sabateur successfully hit all of your copies of an essential engine component (villages) yet leave all the terminals (smithies) in your deck.  Random stuff like that that makes you shout at your screen and contemplate quitting dominion.

Granted, coming back from a dose of bad luck is very satisfying.

The other day on goko i played some dude Rockman - who was quite a jerk to be honest.  I was clearly losing the grandmarket rush, so I decided to just go for early provinces and hope to get a province lead.  I was up 3/1 when his engine stalled and he got into a shouting match at me calling me "lucky".  I ended up with 4 and a duchy.  When his engine finally popped, he decided to end the match with a loss and bought out the final two provinces - saying that I won by luck.  The irony is that had he bought a province and 2 duchies, my next hand was only green and he could have won the following turn...  Yet I won by luck, and I never heard the end of it.  Perhaps it's true.  Perhaps I won by luck because my opponent thought I was lucky and gave up the game with a rookie mistake. 

Rockman may actually be a decent player.  But in my opinion, he does not understand how luck can actually impact a game of dominion and therefore that indicates to me that his perceived skill is greater than what it actually is.

Im losing track of what I'm trying to say here.  But I think an understanding of how luck plays a role in the game is something that develops with experience and time.  Its very easy to call someone else lucky when you are losing (ala what Rockman did to me).  But had he had a better understanding of what Dominion luck really is, i think he may have made better decisions and kept his calm - and earned a win despite my "luck". 

I definitely think that this is something that sets apart higher and lower ranked players.  And perhaps understanding luck (which is nothing more than occurrence of low probability events) and how to capitalize on it (good) or successfully recover from it (bad) is a part of the greater definition of skill.

6

2012 / Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results

« on: December 16, 2012, 04:06:02 pm »

Yeah. I found the first 3 games to be heavily luck dependent, surprisingly almost considering the cards in play.  In the first, he had a card to upgrade for each of my gov's.  In the second he was able to pull provinces in the last few turns, despite a transition to duchies and the curses which I thought would for sure prove fatal for him considering he only had 2 HPs.  Same with the third, an early lead with a transition to farmlands yet he maintained a pace that let him continue to buy provinces.  I won't lie, I was a little frustrated.  Smuggling silvers (or nothing) when he was smuggling golds,  throwing curses that seemed to do little, etc. etc.  Games 4/6 I maintained the pace and felt in control, although 4 ended much closer than i liked due to some self-inflicted bishop damage (consumed a few colonies).  Game 7 I do fully give to Hedgie, he picked the better strat for sure.

If there is a theme though, I'd say its the fact that i tend to really underestimate fool's gold.

Good luck in the next round Hedgie. 

7

2012 / Re: Witch Division: Bracket and Results

« on: December 08, 2012, 10:34:33 am »

I can't get ahold of Wittyhowlard to play this series.  I've messaged him via the forum twice, no response.  Whats the best action to take?

8

Goko Dominion Online / Re: so this is out?

« on: September 22, 2012, 05:24:48 pm »

When do you guys think this will pick up steam?  Right now, there are about 80 - 100 players on isotropic.  15 in Dominion room 1 on goko.  Obviously things will change when goko goes live...

I messed around a bit today, interface is polished, although I occasionally/hastily press the wrong button, discarded the wrong card, etc..  An undo feature would be really nice...  Playing only base got boring after awhile so I checked out adventure mode.  Cool for a few rounds, until I realized the opponent wasn't just starting with duchies, but 3 silvers as well.  Messed around with the zaps, but then got bored again.  I'd be interested in purchases the packages, but only if I know that there is going to be a competitive base of players to keep things interesting.  If the iso crowd moves to goko, I'd consider it.  If not, I can see myself logging on occasionally and hope to get a quick fix with someone who owns most of the sets.  What made iso fun was its simplicity: the game plus the leaderboard.  Hopefully goko can supply the same, I don't really care about the glitz of campaigns, avatars, etc.

9

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Putting Your Opponent Out of His/Her Misery

« on: June 08, 2012, 05:08:21 pm »

Last comment - re: Cadence, I swear.

He kicked my @$$.  I guess I felt that it was clear that he was winning pre-sabing me, hence the reason I posted in this thread.  I'll concede that it was not as obvious to him, because he wasn't playing my hands.  But to me, it did feel as if it was being dragged out.  Perhaps I should have resigned.

10

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Putting Your Opponent Out of His/Her Misery

« on: June 08, 2012, 03:36:17 pm »

I definitely did not play that game well.  When I purchased my first gardens, Cadence was consistently hitting 16, and I saw the game ending soon.  Although he only had 3 minions, he was generally playing them every turn and I was playing most hands with 4 cards.  I found myself cycling minions rather than building up money from them.  Perhaps that was bad luck, but it didn't feel like it. 

11

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Putting Your Opponent Out of His/Her Misery

« on: June 08, 2012, 01:45:15 pm »

I don't want to turn this discussion into an argument between the two of us.  But I think it is unfair to associate a point lead with who was actually in the dominant position.  You were choosing to buy more pools, more nobles, and more engine cards, and your engine was finally popping.  Your light houses resulted in constant hand defense, and you were pulling 16+ coin per turn.  I was barely making 4 -6 coin per turn, despite my minions, hence my choice to go gardens.  Had you drained the provinces instead of buying saboteurs, you would have had 36 points + your nobles + whatever other VP you had chosen to buy.  You probably could have cleaned the provinces in 3 -4 turns and picked up a few duchys to boot. Please note that most of my points at the end of the game were my gardens and estates, which were only the end result of you sabing my other victory points and minions.  I was lucky to even muster that much.  The odds of me getting all of the gardens to maximize points were slim to none.  Perhaps it wasn't clear to you, but you had the game won prior to the sabateurs.  Maybe because my deck was losing steam, only I realized this...hence my reaction when your strategy shifted to wrecking my deck.  I thought it was superfluous.

12

Dominion Isotropic / Re: Putting Your Opponent Out of His/Her Misery

« on: June 08, 2012, 12:25:20 pm »

This thread compelled me to sign up and make my first post.  I'm level 29 on isotropic - competent, but not great.  I know when I make bad plays, when I'm lucky, and when my opponent is outplaying me etc.

I had this game the other day, that I thought exemplified poor form/etiquette on behalf of my opponent. It was the first time I really felt this way. http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120605-133551-e301ffed.html

I went minions, he went with a more elaborate engine involving KC (edit - I was wrong, no KC, just SP), scrying pool, and some other various cards.  By turn 15 or so, my deck ran out of steam and I began to focus on buying gardens.  At this point I did have a point lead.  However my opponents deck was finally clicking, and he was capable of purchasing 2 provinces a turn and running them out, perhaps with a garden or duchy ( or 2 to ensure his win, but a significant margin).  However, instead, on turn 17, he buys 3 sabatuers and proceeds to extend the game, trashing my deck each turn.  Effective - incredibly, but I also thought it was incredibly rude.  His turns took forever (scrying pool/KC), and then he would close each turn by trashing 3 of my cards.  He doesn't even end the game draining the provinces...

I can understand someone wanting to finish their last turn, or buying extra VPs during there last buy to ensure their win.  But making a conscious decision to prolong a game in order to trash your opponents deck...that kinda pushed me to the edge.  He said he was "playing it safe"...but there were many quicker ways to play it safe.