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26

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 25, 2013, 03:41:53 pm »

This draw when splaying IS too good.  I brainstormed this earlier, but my opponent pulled this stunt on me twice today with reformation / flute tucked (splay yellow left, splay yellow right draw two cards, keep building power like a madman).  Flute is just a devastating card, constantly trolling your opponent's bonus cards while splaying up your board / drawing up more fodder for another endorsement.  Even if your opponent is level with you on crowns the endorsed share is not bad, you get a free effect and a bonus figure.  If you had bad runaway leaders in echoes, I'd say the problem got even worse in this cities expansion.  At least FiTs tried to address balance (which I thought was a good thing); nowadays, it is just a little out of control.

27

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 08, 2013, 11:16:43 pm »

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201309/08/game-20130908-201433-d5925647.html

I've always strived to achieve using only special achievements, but this game is particularly ridiculous.  Endorsed nylon for 5 achievements in one turn....I think the new achievements need some thought...

28

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 06, 2013, 06:16:19 pm »

I think having the old conquer cards was a good idea, but maybe simpler conditions to activate them.

29

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 06, 2013, 11:10:52 am »

I agree.  Though it is my preferred style, I feel like having multiple paths to victory makes the game more interesting, and doesn't make it a "first to fermenting / paper to reformation" race, or "first to industrialization" race.  This expansion just marginalizes achieving, and rewards power building, or power almanacing.  Seriously, power almanacing is terrifying...

30

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 05, 2013, 10:51:57 am »

I'm glad that splaying already splayed colors has been amended, flute was really really broken.  However, I still think there needs to be another way to pick up city cards, I didn't think the meld the second top card of the same value was a bad idea.  However, I do think the "after two top cards, keep drawing cities" can be abused badly (industrialization, the wheel anyone?).  I think the endorse versus the old bonus action was a good idea.  Flute with reformation does seem to me like it is still pretty crazy, keep splaying yellow left and right indefinitely...

I liked how Figures addressed the "runaway leader" problem, but I"m not convinced the new expansion addresses that.  Rather, it seems to make it even easier to be the runaway leader.

As a quick note about the "runaway leader," someone needs to address almanac.  Endorsed almanac is just crazy, you can end the game in age 3 without so much as a blink of the eye...I feel like each expansion has made the "strong to ridiculous" cards even stronger and more ridiculous.  There need to be more ways of board control (war was a good one, but it's usually not a good idea to fall too far behind in symbols in the new expansion).  I remember one of the original "conquer" cards allowed you to remove all other top cards of the same value.  candycorn also felt watermill was kind of ridiculous, but I feel that at least the other player can catch up with a well-timed archery or construction.  There is no way to assault forecasts; thus the crazy power of almanac, now amplified because of endorsements.

31

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 03, 2013, 01:04:01 pm »

no it's not teasel, but at least that isn't until age 6.  This is in age 1, the first turn for christ's sake.  After he drew all those cities, is there any way I could ever catch up on symbols.  With industrialization, at least there are some counters, you can do some trolly road building, maybe enterprise or some shared sailing or whatnot.  With flute, once he has splayed purple left, EVEN if i cover flute the echo can still haunt me in my sleep forever.  And ever.  He just places down a crown city, and endorses flute, then for his third action, why not just use flute again!  3 city cards a turn.  Of course naturally he gets masonry as well so now he can plop down all that city power.  Again, flute has been splayed left, so it is a recurring effect.  I would argue in this version that whoever gets flute wins the game.  Straight up.  Even if it is shared you can still get a free action from endorsing.

32

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 03, 2013, 12:43:29 pm »

yeah I don't like that the attacks are gone either.  There needs to be some danger for cities being on the board.  With this flute example I just outlined, Eric also got masonry, allowing him to easily splay all those beautiful cities he got from flute.  Meanwhile I can't do anything because I'm way behind in power, and unable to draw any cities because I didn't draw a splay card. 

33

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: September 03, 2013, 11:53:15 am »

ok the splay thing is ridiculous.  I played a game against eric where he started with flute.  he can just keep using flute forever to draw cities.  Even splaying already splayed colors!  How is that even balanced.  He just endorses flute / upper purple card to draw cities forever (2 a turn).  Then he draws reformation, which allows him to KEEP drawing cities and tucking all of them, so now I am way behind in symbols.  in fact, he can keep splaying yellow left / right to draw 2 cities a turn !!!  if he endorses reformation with flute's echo, he can draw 4 cities a turn and tuck all of them.  If he just uses reformation with his normal action he can draw 6 cities a turn!!!  Someone tell me how the balance isn't just totally out of wack.

34

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: August 29, 2013, 11:27:14 am »

I'm glad this expansion finally arrived, because my "emperor of all the icons" strategy once again reigns supreme.  I had my doubts when I was playing through figures, which is why my level dropped so dramatically.  But now, Emperor Palpatine can return.  Mwahahaha!

35

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Cities! :O

« on: August 28, 2013, 11:18:25 am »

I dunno about you guys, but having three actions in a turn is pretty powerful.  I only did this in solitaire, but I managed to have industrialization and a factory city.  Being able to churn out three industrializations in one turn is pretty sick.  you keep drawing cities?  Just use a city action, even if you don't get to use the bonus "action" it is still a free tuck and more power on your board.  I agree about the rules about those five attack cards being confusing, but you can just not pay attention to it, because the icon actually changes when you can use it.  However, it is nice to know how they work so you can be prepared when your opponent suddenly achieves your board or steals your hand.  The conditions are pretty easy to comprehend though, and after playing a few games, I'm sure we'll get used to it. 

36

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change

« on: August 26, 2013, 03:37:33 pm »

what are your thoughts on the new expansion?  I took a look at the cards from the beta, looked pretty neat and straightforward compared to figures.  The number of achievements is getting ridiculous though...

37

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change

« on: August 26, 2013, 11:59:40 am »

next expansion!!!!  woo!!! 

38

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Feelings about Figures+Base

« on: August 21, 2013, 12:37:55 pm »

I just played a game where I shared pressure cooker and basically cycled through all the 6 figures.  They are weak...even weaker than 5!  I mean 5 has Shivaji, Champlain, Cristofieri, Peter the Great, Bartholomew Roberts, Vermeer, it's like achieve city!  Each of those has various levels of ridiculous achieve power.  I thought 8 achievements was a lot, but it actually is not at all.  With all the special ones like war, rivalry etc you can have an early typical monument / supremacy achieve 1 and 2 and a special and you already got 5/8!  Maybe 9 achievements really is necessary....

39

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change

« on: August 21, 2013, 12:29:50 pm »

I like the icons above each stack method, I agree that having them on the left clutters it up a bit.  I guess it would make it even more unusable on portable / mobile devices on the ipad, but I already found it pretty annoying, so I don't think this extra annoyance would make much difference.  One click for me is definitely preferable, and at least having it above the stack will remind you looking at the card that the inspire is available.  Maybe instead of the symbol have a grey "Inspire" button above the appropriate stack similar to the draw button you have on the left hand side.  However, the icons do look nicer and having them centered above each stack would be pretty obvious as well I think. 

40

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change

« on: August 20, 2013, 04:16:27 pm »

I'm kinda mixed on the new UI change.  I just don't like clicking and moving, it kind of slows down the flow of the game.  Although the old solution was ugly, at least each action was atomic.  I'm trying to think of a better solution where maybe one half of the card you can click on for the inspiration, but that gets kind of messy and not so great for smaller resolutions.

41

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Feelings about Figures+Base

« on: August 20, 2013, 03:35:59 pm »

I agree age 6 is weak, no insta achievers only that one guy that lets you achieve your factories.  Age 7 on the other hand...with Rowland Hill, Nobel, Stepheson, R E Lee all make some achievements quick.  Not to mention Maxwell for a quick empire / world or Darwin for a quite doable instant win.  Maybe the creators thought age 6 base + echoes was already crazy ridiculous already (it kind of is).

42

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Figures UI change

« on: August 20, 2013, 01:57:47 pm »

can you put a little notification on the main screen (maybe in red near the bottom where "server restart" usually appears)?  maybe for 2-3 days, I think that would be useful.

43

Innovation Game Reports / anyone tried Rhazes + flute

« on: August 14, 2013, 05:05:18 pm »

Discovered this quite by accident.  If you have >1 cards in hand (and have a card to tuck of the same age as the stack you are drawing from).

First flute draw: if you would draw, first tuck a card of the same value, okay tuck a card of the same value
Second flute draw: IF the first one had a bonus, repeat the draw action, ok but before drawing first tuck the one with a bonus, hopefully draw another card with a bonus
third flute draw: etc (until you draw an echo without a bonus).

Kind if like a mini watermill without the teching up, however you can keep spamming flute over and over again and tuck all the echoes cards in that age in short order, all while splaying all your cards left.  Pretty sick combo, and your opponent can't share karmas so....

44

Innovation General Discussion / Rommel recursion?

« on: August 01, 2013, 07:24:15 pm »

I think this occurred in the most recent game I played against Yukipo (apologies for forgetting the game log).

1) Rommel: I scored a yellow card (I think it was Rowland Hill), then I proceeded to score everyone's yellow cards (my whole yellow stack and my opponents).  The text on Rommel reads if you would score a card, first score the top card of its color from both boards.  I was under the impression that karmas can't trigger off karmas (i.e. the "score the top card of its color from both boards" won't recursively activate), but I'm not sure.

45

Innovation Game Reports / Rowland Hill the ridiculous

« on: August 01, 2013, 03:39:45 pm »

From 1 to 8 achievements in the blink of an eye....

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/01/game-20130801-123847-749bf849.html

46

Innovation Game Reports / Re: Won by Kim Yu-Na

« on: August 01, 2013, 02:38:18 pm »

I have a Da Vinci powerbuild like a madman + measurement tech to age 10, with a Kim Yu-Na victory triggered by an Amina Sukhera inspiration.  Had some Al-Kindl sharing with metalworking earlier as well. 

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201308/01/game-20130801-113546-211166e7.html

47

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Fermenting and S. de Champlain

« on: August 01, 2013, 10:34:19 am »

Ah I think I understand, it was on turn 10, and the actual 5th card I drew was an age 2 card.  I guess the devils in the details...

48

Innovation General Discussion / Fermenting and S. de Champlain

« on: July 31, 2013, 05:19:21 pm »

So I have three cards in my hand, on my second action I use fermenting to draw 7 cards.  Should Champlain activate or not?  In the game I played (I forgot to save the game log, doh, but it was against Aolhelm today).  I think he should, but I am not sure.

Champlain's text: If you would draw a fifth card into your hand, first claim an achievement of that card's value or below, regardless of eligibility.

I guess the question is, is each "draw" a card from fermenting atomic (i.e. draw then into hand, draw then into hand), or do all seven cards get drawn at once, and handsize changes from 3 to 10.

49

Innovation General Discussion / Re: FiS: subtler bugs

« on: July 24, 2013, 09:07:36 am »

I see, you guys are arguing the meld interrupt interrupted the meld, but not the rest of the effect.  Yeah that is interesting.

50

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Innovation Crash

« on: July 23, 2013, 04:32:42 pm »

that's funny you mention Pele, because I was just using him today.  Does the yellow card after the green need to be immediately afterward, or sometime later in the future.

i.e.

green card  then immediately yellow card

OR

green card ....  some cards in between (possibly 0).... yellow card

I interpret it as the latter, because the text says if you would tuck a yellow card after tucking a green card on the same turn, then instead you win.

I dunno, guess it is open to interpretation...

Thanks for all the good work doug, the game is MUCH more stable recently (I believe it was Thursday or Friday of last week?)