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1

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #5: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel

« on: August 10, 2012, 05:51:33 pm »

On the one hand, I'm not keen on a larger range of luck involved with the benefit of getting the correct Shelter for a hand. On the other, luck is a large element in this game anyway, and this gives all new aspects to think about. I wish one of either Overgrown Estate or Hovel had a non-"trash me" related ability as Necropolis does, both for the sake of asymmetry and feeling universality to any kingdom.
In any case, I'm eager to try out Shelters.

2

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 10, 2012, 05:36:24 pm »

I ran a handful of tests pre-Shelter reveal. Each was a solitaire mini-game of small kingdoms and to a 12 turn limit in order to get a microcosm view of some strategies. Part of the algorithm was greening duchies in turns 11 and 12 (when falling short of Province).

I tried five games of a Rats/Hermit opener, with the intent to pick up Conspirators and Sages, the latter largely via Hermit. The first game was ultra smooth, Hermit keeping the Rat population to 1. The trash pile was full of Rats, Coppers, and Estates. It achieved 3 Provinces and looked like it would keep grabbing one a turn.
The following results were mixed. Inside the small sampling, there were two 2 Copper turn 3s. All in all, it was not so great, but the inclusion of Sage was probably a mistake. I did it to add more DA flavour, but it's really cost for cost as good a sifter as Hunting Party or Golem, so trashing was made pretty irrelevant. The initiative to run a Rats/Hermit test was really the notion that your deck size would seldom increase; each two turns you'd have only 1 card left in your deck. (Of course, Sage makes shuffle control difficult, so another test might be in order with a different strategy).

For a control, I played a game starting Sage/Conspirator with no Rats. It collected 3 Provinces and a Duchy (and had all 3 Estates) though the game might have been anomalous, doing it more with Golds than powered Conspirators. I hit $6 turn 3 and often afterward.

Next was a Conspirator/Hermit combo... no Rats, Hermit to grab Sages. It hit 3 Provinces by the end, and it felt like it'd be consistent.

I tried a couple games with Forge and Laboratory available, starting Rats/Silver. The first game was stagnant, getting $4 in turns 3 and 4, Rats coming up in the 5th turn. I gave it a redo, added a Conspirator to the mix, and it smoked! A turn 6 purchase of Forge powered it to 4 Provinces by the end of turn 12 though not much else in deck besides a couple Rats, a Copper, and a Silver (and enough $ on the 12th turn to buy another Silver.) I think this was darned lucky, but it was interesting to see.

Lastly, I varied it up, going Remodel/Village with Rats to trim Coppers. The goal here was to instead see how many Grand Markets could be gained by turn 12. The first attempt was a disaster, Remodel coming turn 5. I still managed to get 3 GMs. The second was much more efficient, getting 4 GMs.

EDIT: Emboldened openers

3

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 10, 2012, 01:39:50 am »

I'm not sure what you mean to do with Sage and Hermit.  Rats will get in the way of Sage.  Hermit could shoot rats, I guess!  Or do you mean to play Rats only a couple of times and then stop?  Seems strange.
Sage+Conspirator might work better; skip Rats altogether?

The deck ought to be pretty trim, so if a Sage finds a Rats, it's a fair likelihood it's adding it to a hand that has Hermit or is before a hand with Hermit. Rats acts as a non-term trasher that can energize Conspirator in a pinch. Hermit's inability to trash Coppers is thwarted by keeping Rats in check (which also makes the ability read more like +1 Card which should help in reshuffle management). The Workshop effect helps amass Sages faster.
If you stall, lapse Hermit for an endgame Madman. Near endgame, don't be afraid to play two Rats to activate Conspirator.

I'll try this out and report what it's like after a small sample.

4

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 10, 2012, 01:17:41 am »

It's not so hard to imagine Rats playing decently. How about opening Rats/Hermit?
Turn 3: Rat an Estate and gain a Rats. Buy a Conspirator.
Turn 4: Hermit a Rats out of the discard for +1 Card. Gain a Sage. Buy a Sage. (0 cards left in deck for fresh reshuffle.)

I doubt the first plan would work well.  You're just going to get a lot of Rats.

If you draw Rats before or in the same hand as Hermit after reshuffles, you'll have no more than 1 in the following reshuffle. And the Sages would likely keep that Rat population to 1 by finding either piece of Rats or Hermit. Luck might turn against you at some point, but I'm betting such a Conspirator deck would be fast enough to put the game in doubt before that happens.

5

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #4: Rats, Pillage, Spoils

« on: August 10, 2012, 12:56:54 am »

It's not so hard to imagine Rats playing decently. How about opening Rats/Hermit?
Turn 3: Rat an Estate and gain a Rats. Buy a Conspirator.
Turn 4: Hermit a Rats out of the discard for +1 Card. Gain a Sage. Buy a Sage. (0 cards left in deck for fresh reshuffle.)

Or how about Rats and Jacks as a deck type? Play a Rat and decrease your hand size, then Jack for more cards and trash a Rats for +1 more Card. Your deck might become very dense on Silvers yet very light on Coppers.

Maybe start Rats/(non-terminal)Silver, going big money until you hit $7 for Forge and then being very aggressive with it. Some turns you Forge two Rats for a Province and with the +2 Cards afford a Gold, Duchy, or second Province.

6

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: What card design rules are left?

« on: August 08, 2012, 08:43:08 pm »

Something Village
$2 - Action
+2 Actions
+$1

At the time, we debated whether that was balanced at $2 (conclusion: it was), but now it would be useful to say that it's strictly

Why come to this conclusion so readily? Maybe with some play, Squire will prove quite imbalanced.

7

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Ambassador and trade route

« on: August 08, 2012, 08:34:26 pm »

It's definitely food for thought. Too bad that both examples have opponents slowed by an unfavourable 5/2 opening. I also find their pursuit of picking up a Curse to return it to be a little questionable for the flows of those games.
Ambassador is my least favourite card in the game, so I'm glad to see this as a plausible counter-strategy.

8

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Combo: Feodum + Trader

« on: August 08, 2012, 01:31:43 am »

And feodum mine. I don't want those worthless golds, mine them into silvers!

That's laugh out loud funny =D

9

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Combo: Develop + Poorhouse + a 3 cost village

« on: August 08, 2012, 01:26:51 am »

If it's Fishing Village, I say definitely combo. It gives you $5 or even $6 on that turn.
I'd say it's worthwhile Developing Estate into Oasis and Poor House as well.

10

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Did... did Transmute just get better?

« on: August 08, 2012, 01:20:51 am »

I think it does get a little better but just as a more effective booby prize when you draw Potion and 2 Estates together.

11

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Turn 3 Thought with Remake

« on: August 08, 2012, 01:13:27 am »

Take a fairly vanilla board where you've decided to open Remake/Silver.  On Turn 3, you draw Remake, 3 Coppers, and an Estate.  There are no $2 cards on the board worth buying.  Do you Remake the Estate and a Copper, or do you Remake 2 Coppers?  Does it matter what the $3 cards are?

My first thought on these was that you remake the Estate, but more and more, unless there's some $3 card that excites me (more than Silver), I've been thinking that maybe remaking the two coppers (one less total card in hand the deck) is the right play.  Maybe it's too much playing with Ambassador's that got me thinking this way.

Anyway, what do you guys think?  Is this patently obvious, worth considering, or am I completely off my rocker?

I often gotten rid of Coppers rather than Estates with Upgrade and Masquerade, but this example is trickier. Whacking 2 Coppers on turn 3 seems very board specific rather than a general philosophy. No good $2 means a lack of Crossroads.
Maybe you start Remake/Loan with the intent of Remaking 2 Coppers the first time, next shuffle Remake 1 Copper and one Estate into Tunnel.
I might whack 2 Coppers out of a 3 Copper hand for a Poor House strategy, though that deck probably still needs to turn Estates into 3s first as well.
You said a vanilla board, though. The power of turning a card worth $0 to one worth $2 is just too great.

12

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Cards you think are underrated/overrated

« on: August 08, 2012, 12:56:39 am »

Bishop is a very overrated opener.
Effective non-terminal card draw like Lab and Hunting Party can help it, but in the absence of such, I usually feel pretty confident when my opponent starts with Bishop.

13

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Shelter and Baron?

« on: August 08, 2012, 12:50:39 am »

On an unrelated note, I've always been impressed at chancellors wording and how nicely introducing tunnel didnt break the card. Good job Donald!

Good job? I call it unintuitive.
Besides, would you open Chancellor/Tunnel as opposed to Young Witch/Tunnel? Hand 3 having your Tunnel and hand 4 having your Chancellor would be just as unlucky as if it was Young Witch.

14

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Will Scout Ever Get Better?

« on: August 07, 2012, 03:38:48 am »

Lately I've been considering the abilities of an early Scout to set up a 5 Copper purchase (of Mint). I know I've tried this before and gotten unlucky with the fifth card being an Estate, but there's a narrow instance where Scout might set that up better than any other $4.

Smithy probably has a better chance.

Probably roughly equal, but let's suppose Smithy isn't in the kingdom. And depending on what you want to do after buying Mint, Scout could be the better card to have; it's bound to hit 2-3 Estates at that point non-terminally. That'd suit Poor House better than a Smithy would.

15

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #1

« on: August 06, 2012, 05:09:03 pm »

Graverob Transmute into Philosopher's Stone! Hai-ya!

16

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #1

« on: August 06, 2012, 04:34:48 pm »

As it gets shut down by Duchies, I think it might be a pile-out for Goons engines.

I don't think sage 'gets shut down by' duchies, any more than any other card-draw does. I do think that it loses power as

My point was more that it'll probably shine better in VP token strategies like Goons engines because it won't be impeded by Victory cards.

Point taken on Scheme - Sage. I suppose it's sort of moot to debate which is better for Conspirator since it'd be wise to buy Scheme or Sage for it, both if they're available.

17

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #1

« on: August 06, 2012, 03:58:48 pm »

Sage is the sort of card I have a hard time leaving alone.
For Conspirator, it's probably better than Scheme.
The luck swings in Sea Hag games will be interesting at first but eventually make them even more boring.
As it gets shut down by Duchies, I think it might be a pile-out for Goons engines.
I bet they'll pile-out in Haggler games too.

Ironworks for Sage, Great Hall, and Estate pile-outs? Prrrobably not... I think. OoO

18

Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages Preview #1

« on: August 06, 2012, 03:39:57 pm »

Open Workers Village/Chapel, you'll have a deck with three WV, four poor houses, and one chapel in no time at all. If you open, like, Remake/Steward in a game with a village on the board, that'll also get you there super-fast.

...actually, in general, I think that the presence of Poorhouse and some sub-$5 village is going to encourage faking a chapel opening - opening with two weaker trashers if chapel isn't around. Remake/Steward. Moneylender/Steward.

I was thinking similarly, like Remake/Chapel or even Chapel/Chapel.
Nomad Camp/a village card and a Chapel
Even the ordinarily perilous Mint/Chapel. The lucky turn 3 and 4 draws are, funny enough, 1 Copper each.

19

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Will Scout Ever Get Better?

« on: August 06, 2012, 10:15:01 am »

Lately I've been considering the abilities of an early Scout to set up a 5 Copper purchase (of Mint). I know I've tried this before and gotten unlucky with the fifth card being an Estate, but there's a narrow instance where Scout might set that up better than any other $4.

20

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Clasic_Cards #19 - Barge

« on: August 06, 2012, 03:34:46 am »

I'm inclined to say this should discard rather than trash. On the other hand, I wonder if it's more effective getting trashed than reentering your shuffles.
I like the idea of it as a vanilla extra duration card. I think I'd like it to just last two more turns than be interactive with cards played by your opponent.

21

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Clasic_Cards #14 - Lost City

« on: August 05, 2012, 05:32:40 pm »

I think the primary problem of this card is that half of players won't get it, and even some savvy ones will screw up carefully thought out turns.
I'm not really sure what this card is supposed to do. That said, it could do some really wild interesting things. The most bland thing it does is make Market a card that gives +$4 and nothing else.

It makes Pawns into +$2. It makes Hamlets possibly into +$4! Mining Villages trash for +$5. Crossroads gives at least +$3 and likely more.

Most notably, it makes the order you put cards back onto your deck with Oracle possibly matter!

22

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)

« on: August 05, 2012, 04:39:51 pm »

Hmm. Also, Cathedral big money looks really really really powerful. It's a one-time trasher (that is almost guaranteed to blow 2 Estates) and the best of both worlds in Smithy and Courtyard. A Cathedral - Nothing start is likely super strong.

Can you imagine Cathedral with Mint? Cathedral would likely set up a turn with 6 Coppers to buy Mint. Later on it would throw Mint plus Silver/Gold/etc back on top.

23

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Finalized)

« on: August 05, 2012, 04:10:09 pm »

Really cool theme and very polished presentation. Good job!

Clerk's reaction seems very very powerful. If you start Chapel, you might trash four cards and buy a Silver over turns 3 and 4. Clerk can get that all accomplished in one hand! And the Silver will be on top of the deck! I'm not saying that's bad necessarily, for a card to scare people away from Sea Hag.

Mill Town and Aqueduct are my kind of cards. I'd love to play with them. Can you imagine this turn 3?
Hand: 2 Coppers, Estate, Mill Town, Watchtower.
Mill Town to draw a Copper. Discard the Estate, reveal 3 Coppers to gain a Mill Town that goes on top of the deck via Watchtower.
Watchtower to draw three cards, maybe Mill Town, Copper, Estate.
Mill Town to draw a Copper. Discard the Estate. Reveal 5 Coppers to gain a nasty 5.

On subsequent turns, Mill Towning to gain an Aqueduct (that you might trash with WT) to make sure what you'll get from WTing is just Mill Towns and Coppers is wild. Very exciting!

24

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Interesting Potion Ideas

« on: May 11, 2012, 04:21:02 pm »

This card turns Apprentice into 3 Labs, a Salvager into 2 Barons, a Remodel into an immediate Province...ect.

And it costs $4P. It's definitely not too easy to set up these combos IMO. However, I think the replay ability is a bit too much, partially because mega-Cursing isn't cool and partially because I would like there to be some incentive for players to gain multiple copies of this.

Until testing it, my only real bugaboo is the empty the Curse pile finish. =) Otherwise, yeah, I think it should be powerful! In fact, I think it might be too slow outside of a game where you're running rampant on your opposition anyway.

25

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Interesting Potion Ideas

« on: May 10, 2012, 08:50:12 pm »

The repeated Curse gain of Necromancer seems quite broken. "I have a marginal lead and two piles are empty, so I play a Necromancer to empty the Curse pile." I think we'd all hate losing to this one-card combo after the other player bought a Duchy. Even a canny player might just do this when he's at the beginning of a shuffle and his opponent is at the end of his.
One insidious purpose to the card is Necro'ing a Ill-Gotten Gains to gain an Ill-Gotten Gains from the supply and regain the trashed Ill-Gotten Gains. I can also imagine Apprentice'ing a Gold to draw, and then Necro'ing a copper away to regain that Gold.

Ale seems very very strong, like a super Envoy that draws one more card but rather than the left player making you discard your best card, you discard an Estate from the next hand. Having to have a Potion in your deck hurts it as a big money strategy, though. Its drawback could be good for Menagerie or Watchtower.

I like Actions that add Potions to your money.

I wonder if Assistant is sicker than Alchemist. With trashing, Assistant can be as consistent as Alchemist. To top it off, it improves your money density and gives you the extra buy! Let's see. Turn 5, you play an Assistant, trash two cards, provide a Potion, and buy an Assistant. Turn 6, you buy another Assistant with your Potion card. Then you'd reshuffle three cards practically as good as Grand Market into your deck. Grand Market gives you the extra buys easier, but on the flip side, you can eschew an unneeded +Action to trash a card... so maybe it's better than Grand Market?!
Haha. The empowerment of this makes me want to try it out.