Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Captain_Frisk on November 07, 2011, 01:55:35 pm
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Just read rinkwork's thoughts on "Grand Bazaar" http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=935.msg14220#msg14220
This got me thinking: what other $5 actions would be made juicier by "Granding" them (cost $1 more, provide $1 more, can't buy with coppers).
Most of the non terminals sound awesome (Grand Lab, Grand Bazaar, Grand Upgrade, Grand Minion!!!) Grand Hunting Party would be even more disgusting than regular hunting party. As rink works pointed out though, its really the +buy on grand market that makes it so crazy - as it allows you to get into "buy province + (something else)" without really compromising your plans. It seems that many of the other cards would come out too late to really be effective (would you really skip a province to buy a grand witch? a grand Mountebank?)
How many cards are Grandable? Would granding work at any other price point?
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I think a "cost $1 more, provide $1 more" isn't necessarily the best thing for every card... but I think you can make cases for certain other things on cards:
Grand Lab (Researcher?): +1 Action, +3 Cards.
Grand Upgrade: +1 Card, +1 Action. Trash a card from your hand, and gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Grand Highway (Interstate?): +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy. || While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.
Grand Venture (Venture Capital?): Big $1. Draw until you find a treasure that is not a copper.
Grand Witch (Archmage?): +2 Cards. All other players gain a Curse. You may discard one card; if you do, all other players gain a second Curse.
Grand Mandarin (Grandarin): +$3; no top-deck effect, on-buy effect as normal.
None of these to be bought with coppers of course.
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Grand Upgrade actually looks worse in the current wording, since it forces you to gain a card when trashing Coppers and Curses.
Grand Highway looks crazy. The +Buy is the only thing Highway is missing to be a dominant strategy on many, many boards.
Grand Witch looks strong, since discarding a card is not a big problem, but maybe the fact that it can't be bought early enough for a curser makes up for it.
Grandarin - well, I often prefer Courtyard over Smithy for the better deck control, the top-decking ability can be nice.
What about
Grand Library - you may set aside any Action or Victory cards you draw,
Grandventurer - two non-coppers or three treasures
Grand Steward - + 3 cards or + 3 coins or trash three cards (probably weaker since it can't be gained early)
Grand Treasury - + two coins
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I'm a Grand purist. For a card to be Granded, its original form should earn exactly +$1, and its Granded form should earn exactly +$2, cost $1 more, and have a no-Copper restriction.
This means a Grand Treasury costs $6, can't be bought with Copper, and yields +1 Card, +1 Action, +$2. Grand Peddler yields the same stuff, but it costs $9 by default.
Grand Noble Brigand is a mouthful, Grand Loan is pretty funny, Grand Fishing Village is a monster, and Grand Copper is basically a Silver you can't buy until you have other Silver. My favorite is Grand Herbalist, just because it makes such a meager card sound so important and authoritative.
Note: I suspect, however, that Grand Bazaar is the only other Grand variation worth playing. I could certainly be wrong.
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Grand Peddler could be interesting as well, as the no-copper restriction is easily circumvented by playing lots of cantrips.
Grand Oasis is an activated Conspirator that makes you discard. Meh.
Grand Archivist would be interesting. Maybe push the drawing to 7 and discarding to 2 or more in addition to the +$2? It would be like a Minion without the attack, but with stronger drawing.
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Grand Archivist would be interesting. Maybe push the drawing to 7 and discarding to 2 or more in addition to the +$2? It would be like a Minion without the attack, but with stronger drawing.
Grand Archives is one of my favorite bands!
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Grand Upgrade actually looks worse in the current wording, since it forces you to gain a card when trashing Coppers and Curses.
That's why I put in the "up to" but indeed, as you say, the wording forces it. Hrm... maybe "you may" gain a card instead of "gain a card." Because yes, it ought still to be usable on Copper/Curse.
Grand Highway looks crazy. The +Buy is the only thing Highway is missing to be a dominant strategy on many, many boards.
On some level, sure, but Grand Market is immediately dominant except on some boards.
Grand Library - you may set aside any Action or Victory cards you draw
An interesting variant, I like it, might be too powerful though. Maybe make it six cards as well as the extra set-aside.
Grand Treasury - + two coins
Very purist, but I think it definitely wouldn't be unbalanced.
Also:
Grand Caravan: Now and on your next turn: +1 Card, +1 Action, carry a family of seven plus luggage in relative comfort. DVD player optional.
Grand Slam: +1 Action, +4 VP tokens
Grand Banks: Same as Bank; when you buy this, gain a Fishing Village
OR Grand Banks: Same as Bank; +1 Card, all other players with more than four cards place one card from their hand on top of their deck.
OK that last is probably somewhat obscure...
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Grand Herbalist is hilarious.
Jack of all Grands- Gains you Gold instead of Silver!
Grand Festival- +$3, +2 Actions, +1 Buy for $6. Wow that's strong. Possibly not quite Grand Market-level strong, but super beefy all the same.
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Grand Slam: +1 Action, +4 VP tokens
or +2 bacon +2 sausage +2 eggs +2 pancakes
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Don't forget the obvious:
Grand Grand Market - $7
+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+$3
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You can't buy this card if you have any copper or silver in play.
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Grand chancellor. Put every player's deck into their discard pile, twice.
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By Rinkworks' strict definition, Grand Pawn is also kind of a hilarious card, the choices being so lopsided.
Grand Minion and Grand Goons don't seem exceptionally more powerful than Minion and Goons already are. Unless the one more for Grand Goons was applied to the buy - +2 coin, +2 buys. That would be worth 7 on some boards, I would say.
Grand Monument wouldn't be worth it if it was just +3 coin, but I think it would be interesting to add a +1 action to it, to make it more spammable. Maybe that would break things though.
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Grand chancellor. Put every player's deck into their discard pile, twice.
Haha. Great. Another dumb ideas:
Grand Counting House
Do this twice: Look through your discard pile, reveal any number of Copper cards from it, and put them into your hand.
Grand Treasure Map
Trash this and another two copies of Treasure Map from your hand. If you do trash three Treasure Maps, gain 10 Gold cards, putting them on top of your deck.
Grand Tournament
+1 Action
Each player may reveal two Provinces from his hand. If you do, discard them and gain all Prizes, putting it on top of your deck. If no-one else does, +1 Card +1 Coin.
So now some real ideas:
Grand Spice Merchant $5
You may trash a Treasure from your hand. If you do, choose one:
+3 Cards and +1 Action;
or +$3 and +1 Buy.
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You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.
Grand Merchant Ship $6
Now and at the start of your next turn: +3 Coins.
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You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.
And what about this? This would be powerful!
Grand City aka Metropolis $6
+1 Card
+2 Actions
If there are one or more empty Supply piles, +2 Cards. If there are two or more, +$2 and +1 Buy.
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You can't buy this card if you have any copper in play.
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Maybe we can overhaul some of the less liked cards.
Grand Adventurer $7
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 Treasure cards. Put those Treasure cards in your hand and discard the other revealed cards.
Grand Explorer $6
You may reveal a Colony card from your hand. If you do, gain a Platinum card, putting it into your hand. Otherwise, gain a Gold card, putting it into your hand.
Explorer has weird wording, why does it say "card" everywhere? Maybe this is a hint there will be Gold tokens? :p
Grand Navigator $5
+2 Coins, Look at the top 10 cards of your deck. Either discard all of them, or put them back on top of your deck in any order.
I think this would be insane due to what theory's published a long time ago: One good and one bad turn is better than two mediocre turns.