/tag
/tag
microman 3 - 3 michaeljb
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376969418938.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970256642.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970788650.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376971632888.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376972666474.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376973851109.txt
Having lost the first round to a skilled but less highly ranked opponent, I found myself really craving the win here (I do so, so poorly in tournaments).
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376961194057.txt
A clear Big Money board, but which terminals to get? I use my Baker token on a Haggler/Hermit opening. The Hermit doesn't feel so important to me, but I know I can crunch up those Shelters and Silver gaining will be nice. The Haggler I do believe is the clear choice at $5, but my opponent prefers to pair his Hermit with Merchant Ship. I just don't have much love for Merchant Ship, personally. In any event, Haggler serves me extremely well here; I can gain Bakers off Golds, Golds off Provinces, and take a late-game Apprentice gain to really close things out, but I don't need it. An easy win.
Having lost the first round to a skilled but less highly ranked opponent, I found myself really craving the win here (I do so, so poorly in tournaments).
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376961194057.txt
A clear Big Money board, but which terminals to get? I use my Baker token on a Haggler/Hermit opening. The Hermit doesn't feel so important to me, but I know I can crunch up those Shelters and Silver gaining will be nice. The Haggler I do believe is the clear choice at $5, but my opponent prefers to pair his Hermit with Merchant Ship. I just don't have much love for Merchant Ship, personally. In any event, Haggler serves me extremely well here; I can gain Bakers off Golds, Golds off Provinces, and take a late-game Apprentice gain to really close things out, but I don't need it. An easy win.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376962440020.txt
Smithy, Ironmonger, Village, Pawn and Stonemason lend themselves strongly to engine building here. However, SM is the only trashing, and worse, there's just nothing for the engine to do here, other than draw your whole deck. It's like a just Base engine, if you know what I mean. Anyway, we both make liberal use of SM's overpay aspect, which is really nice here, and SM is actually nice for Copper trashing (well, it's not ideal, but it's better than nothing). Light Copper trashing really helps the Ironmongers here. Anyway, my opponent simply gets too fancy. He's definitely still in the game, although he SMs a Smithy into 2 Villages, and then does this again--a questionable move, I think, given that villages are more plentiful than draw here. But then he loads up on Treasure Maps??? Later he tells me he wanted to SM lots of Golds into Duchy/Duke. It's a neat idea, and I commend him for it, but he was probably going to have three pile problems at that point, even if he could pull it off. As it is, he just draws horribly, and can't line things up. Safely ahead, I can win off SM trashing and overpay gains. That really is a neat card for closing out games, by the way.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376963917665.txt
My opponent opens 5/2 with Cultist. That's never something I want to see! I'm Silver/Silver all day here--just need the Cultists. I actually buy a Throne Room off my $4 hand right before the second reshuffle. I only have the one Cultist, so I know this is a *bad* purchase, but I figure if I get lucky and collide them, it will negate his advantage, and if I don't oh well, just would have been a Silver. So I like that call, even though they didn't collide. Still, some fortunate Cultist chaining means we split the Ruins. What goes wrong for him after that? He just never hits $5 for some reason, and I hit it over and over again, loading up on Level 2 Cities. He seems more committed to trashing than I am (even though we have an equal number of Trade Routes, he seems to get to them faster with more Wishing Wells and Thrones). But... Cities, man. He has no third pile, and I have a Province anyway, so I can safely buy them out, and then his trashing advantage is actually a hindrance, because we're both drawing our whole decks, but mine has money in it and his doesn't.
Thanks for the games! My opponent must have been frustrated with his shuffle luck in Games 2 and 3. It was brutal.
My first Trade Route "Shoulda been a Silver"™
WanderingWinder 3 - 1 scott pilgrimBand of Misfits. I use it as Steward early, then mostly throne room and monument, with a touch of herald and an accidental advisor (somehow I got it confused with herald for a second?). I trash down a good bit faster and further than sp, get a couple fewer nobles (but still some), and basically sit and pile up gobs of points, and provinces here and there, but with no particular haste. This one wasn't close, and I'm not sure if he could have trashed further (probably I think so to an extent) or just drew too badly (probably at least a component).
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969406760.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969816011.txtRebuild, the annoyance of so many, myself included. I go for multiple feast for heavy rebuilds. And I pick up estate number four, which should be getting me in good shape, I think, but I draw it with the next rebuild, giving me problems. Meanwhile, my opponent just went rebuild+schemes (more or less), which may very well be a little better anyway. I get a scheme at some point but never have the chance to use it. And then I must mention that I make a terrible mistake (as though I lost my mind) in naming estate rather than province fairly late in the game - islands and fairgrounds were present and I *had* an island I'd just bought. This basically slammed the door on me, but I think I was already well behind.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376970719445.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376971290972.txtSo, he goes for rats and bishop. I go for basically money with a tribute, cellar, and a few pillages sprinkled in. Eventually a bishop of my own. I didn't think this rats/bishop thing was very good, and I frankly still don't, but it's a lot better than I had reckoned, and the board was very very weak, so it's not like there was big opportunity cost for it. He gets a couple provinces along with everything, and I am barely able to steal a 1-point victory on first-turn advantage before I get totally locked out.
microman 3 - 3 michaeljb
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376969418938.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970256642.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376970788650.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376971632888.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376972666474.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.505c85050cf27cdcceaba6ca.1376973851109.txt
After losing game 5, I managed to secure the match tie by Junk Dealing a Province on my final turn in game 6.
I'll try to add more comments tomorrow, right now time for bed.
Thanks for the good games microman, it was fun to have a Curse vs Province game (forum avatar).
Adam, your second kingdom is actually very complicated due to the stonemason. I'd go back and revisit that and not look for the complications, but instead assess how you were weighing up strategies. Quite often your draws seemed to dictate your play, turn by turn, without a clear vision in the commentary of what your deck would deliver and how it needed to be done. For example you don't seem to give much consideration to duchy/duke until mid game, then the decision was taken away from you by a three pile ending, and I'm not convinced you were prepared for any of that. Framing your deck planning within a full game plan will help your general play.
StrongRhino 2-4 Young Nick
SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103072047.txt
SR http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377103401235.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104045244.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104516505.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377104891827.txt
YN http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130821/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1377105729902.txt
I go ahead early with a more engine-y deck in game 1, 3-piling. Next match I somehow win with a clearly inferior deck. I realize I can win the match with one win in the next two games, and perhaps get overconfident. I proceed to lose the next three games, where I think Young Nick played better than me, including one where I didn't notice he had already bought 2 Duchys on a Duke board, and lose. The last game I had some terrible early Wharf luck and proceed to get steamrolled with Vineyards.
It was pretty fun still though, thanks for the matches.
Adam, your second kingdom is actually very complicated due to the stonemason. I'd go back and revisit that and not look for the complications, but instead assess how you were weighing up strategies. Quite often your draws seemed to dictate your play, turn by turn, without a clear vision in the commentary of what your deck would deliver and how it needed to be done. For example you don't seem to give much consideration to duchy/duke until mid game, then the decision was taken away from you by a three pile ending, and I'm not convinced you were prepared for any of that. Framing your deck planning within a full game plan will help your general play.
In tournament videos I don't make an effort to articulate my entire thought process because I try and focus more on the game (perhaps I shouldn't approach it this way?). This is the best I can remember what my thought process was for Game 2:
Before the game: See draw engine with no trashing. I'm tempted to just play BM+Smithy or BM+Oracle or something, but if I go for Provinces and do that, my opponent building the draw engine will crush me with Duchy/Duke because he's playing the long game.
OK that means I need to play the long game, and that means I want to build the engine.
I think up until this point I'm right. However, I was mistaken in that this meant the game was going to be long. Of course if my opponent goes for the same thing the game will end on piles and I should have seen that. My Grand Master Plan™ of colliding Treasure Maps and Stonemason-trashing the Golds into Duchy/Dukes would have just taken way too long unless my opponent was going for Provinces.
I build my engine with that as the goal, instead of keep my finger on the pulse of the game. The next time I reconsidered my plan was after buying the first Province which was entirely too late.
Robz adapted to what was going on and I didn't, which was made a lot easier because he knew he would have to and got Ironmongers, which help a TONNE with that.
...but I'm not usually horrible about that! I usually adapt pretty well, and as I'm describing this, I feel like it's something I should have seen, but it didn't cross my mind to be pre-emptive or adaptable to it. I'm concerned that I'm playing my tournament games with that attitude.
My comments on the games:WanderingWinder 3 - 1 scott pilgrimBand of Misfits. I use it as Steward early, then mostly throne room and monument, with a touch of herald and an accidental advisor (somehow I got it confused with herald for a second?). I trash down a good bit faster and further than sp, get a couple fewer nobles (but still some), and basically sit and pile up gobs of points, and provinces here and there, but with no particular haste. This one wasn't close, and I'm not sure if he could have trashed further (probably I think so to an extent) or just drew too badly (probably at least a component).
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969406760.txtQuotehttp://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376969816011.txtRebuild, the annoyance of so many, myself included. I go for multiple feast for heavy rebuilds. And I pick up estate number four, which should be getting me in good shape, I think, but I draw it with the next rebuild, giving me problems. Meanwhile, my opponent just went rebuild+schemes (more or less), which may very well be a little better anyway. I get a scheme at some point but never have the chance to use it. And then I must mention that I make a terrible mistake (as though I lost my mind) in naming estate rather than province fairly late in the game - islands and fairgrounds were present and I *had* an island I'd just bought. This basically slammed the door on me, but I think I was already well behind.Quotehttp://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376970719445.txt
This one was weird. I go for urchin/mercenary and get it reasonably fast but not amazingly so - and it's a bit wonky, and I never get as trashed as I'd expected. I also go university, primarily for mass mystic (I eventually get 9). But it takes me forever to get going. Fortunately for me, sp gets LOTS of urchins and cannot get them to collide for a very long time. I think this was probably a bit of overkill, but I'm not 100% on that, and it was certainly unlucky. So I come out with a lead anyway, and I am just flirting with the edge of striking distance for a long time as the game fizzles.Quotehttp://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130819/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376971290972.txtSo, he goes for rats and bishop. I go for basically money with a tribute, cellar, and a few pillages sprinkled in. Eventually a bishop of my own. I didn't think this rats/bishop thing was very good, and I frankly still don't, but it's a lot better than I had reckoned, and the board was very very weak, so it's not like there was big opportunity cost for it. He gets a couple provinces along with everything, and I am barely able to steal a 1-point victory on first-turn advantage before I get totally locked out.
3 zporiri - pitrpicko 3This one really really messed my thinking. I knew exactly what is left in my deck and I took the chances to finish this off. And I'm pretty sure it was a good call. But some "Goko really hates me shuffle luck" played role here. Well I think this says it all:
some interesting, drawn out games where end game strategy meant a lot.
37 zporiri - pitrpicko 34
An engine that really lacked +buy. we both opened silver/moneylender and i was able to buy labs on my first 3 turns. he went for more economy/less engine since he didnt have perfect shuffle luck as i did :P. my originally plan was to add in an explorer with the lab engine, but he started going for provinces so soon i felt like i didnt have time. he apprenticed a province to buy the last one, but only ended up with $7 (really unlucky), which killed him. i stonemasoned a gold for two duchies to keep up. neither one of us could get $8 for the last province, and eventually i 3 piled on labs (duchies+estates) to win. he probably shouldve won this one.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377181483311.txt
7 zporiri - pitrpicko 11Here you got unlucky with doctor, but I'd totally name copper as first call. Always... This was only game I think I played well. At first I thought Poss will be too slow for this board, but you managed to buy it so fast. So I went same way and this is where I think deck tracking made difference. I was closely watching where all Possesions are and it could made this. But maybe just the fact, that I had more engine pieces or my golds from Soothsayer. Who knows...
village+conspirator+lab+margrave engine with doctor for trashing and possession for fun and soothsayer for cursing. i was expecting to slim down with doctor super fast and not have to worry about sooth sayer, but my first two doctor turns missed which killed me. my only chance from there was possession. he won this one, and rightly so.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377183758712.txt
I'm pretty sure that Village helped here. And Plaza was perfect for this. That coin token is really cool when you draw plaza+steward+3copper. Just discard copper, trash two and save coin token. It also allowed me to connect TM earlier. Plaza(Steward(+2cards), TM(TM)). To be absolutly honest I wasn't sure that I want TM, but when you bought it, it was very clear that this is superior strategy. You made that desicion for me.
5 zporiri - pitrpicko 48
treasure map game with steward for trashing. he opens plaza/steward which really helped him soothe out his turns, picking up another steward on turn 3. i opened double steward, but his opening seemed to be better. he got his treasure maps a couple turns before me, and without +buy i was done. also didnt help that i didnt connect my treasure maps in my 6 card deck :). i ignored provinces and went for vineyards because i had a super super super slim chance at winning that way as opposed to contesting him for provinces.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377184444426.txt
Ohh I'm so sad... I was almost sure that you have only max. 21coins and you cannot buy double colony... :((( So I left 2 there, one for me, which would be enough. If I would count better I'd just buy province and I could really win this. That was silly mistake. And you took the chance. Well done.
50 zporiri - pitrpicko 43
the pivotal game 4. crazy action game with peddler, pawn, city, herald and cols+plats. i opened trader/pawn to trash some coppers, but couldnt resist trashing esates and buying more pawns on two turns (pawns to help get lots of peddlers), and those silvers hurt me a lot. i was barely able to pull off a double province turn on the last turn to win the the help of level 3 cities. fun game.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377185513962.txt
Oh I so hate Scrying Pools... SO MUCH! Where I think you misplayed this was not trashing squires for SP. I didn't buy any gold which was probably very silly but in the end I was able to three-pile with princess help. Having 7 tournaments is a lot. They gave me money I needed for winning this. Also you totally ignored monument. I thought you're going for some SC,WV,Monument madness, but SP seemed too slow on this board. 15turns only.
zporiri 6 - pitrpicko 24
a tournament game with scrying pool, squire, and forager. i felt like my scrying pool strategy was superior to his strategy of loading up on tournament and foragers, but i misplayed this game very badly, i wish i could have this one back. if i had gotten another forager sooner i couldve trashed quicker and gotten provinces sooner. i really needed/wanted those followers. he got provinces before me, and that was all she wrote.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377186346224.txt
OOhhh, I hate Scrying pools, have I already said that? This time you pulled it nicely and it was deserved win. I really didn't do anything. I tried to be very fast with FV/Nobles, but it didn't work out very well. This one was 100% yours.
zporiri wins by resignation (i got a phone call on my last turn, winning turn and was taking a while so pitrpicko resigned. sorry about that :) )
anotehr scrying pool game, this time with fishing village, nobles, and hamlets. death carts came into play late for extra economy. i bought two on one turn instead of double duchying at the end of the game (i needed a big turn to come back) and it turned out to be the right decision. scrying pool didnt mind the ruins, and i got my big turn at the end to win.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1377187811935.txt
some of the more interesting games ive plaed in a while, particularly the end game strategy that came into play. thanks to pitrpicko for the great games and sorry about the phone call at the end!
Game 1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377207715360.txt
This ends up being a Poor House almost mirror thing. He gets the 5/2, opening Count for trashing and later Duchies. I open Spice Merchant, hoping to win by having more components than him. It turns out his plan/opening hand was a little better. Not sure if my Shanty Towns were worth it or not, but well, I did manage to draw with them most of the time.
Stealth Tomato wins, so I'm 0-1
Game 2:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377208309783.txt
There's potential for a few things here, but I opt for Monument BM-ish with Hoard. Sadly my Hoard decides to not connect on hands where I need it, but with the chips I manage to come out ahead anyway. Twice I buy Inn and my Monuments all go to the bottom of the shuffle. I probably shouldn't have bothered with the Market at all. His Taxman works all right to slow me down some, but not enough to stop my flow. On one lol-worthy turn, he gets 3 Golds from Hoard long after it actually matters.
I win, 1-1
Game 3:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377208914271.txt
Big ol' Minion and Monuments game. I open Talisman to speed up getting Monuments and Native Villages. For the most part, I'm able to run the engine I wanted to here. (Monument followed by Minion flip) I get an Upgrade to eliminate Copper; don't care about the Estates as much since my hands are just going to get flipped for Monument hands anyway. He starts catching up, but I 3 pile for the win.
I win, 2-1
Game 4:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377209849484.txt
An Ambassador game with Moats, Fortress, Remake and Highway. This game is just nutty as all-get-out. Read the log, man. In the end, I let him get the seventh Highway and that seals it as he can Remake for 2 Provinces per play. If I had contested Highway better, maybe I'd have a chance, but it was slim after a point. I saw his Outpost buy and played monkey see monkey do without thinking.
He wins, 2-2
Game 5:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377210670616.txt
The Knights battle of the century. My Watchtower stops all but 1 Ruin, my Beggar is in hand right when it needs to be, and I end the game with the only Knight remaining: Dame Josephine. Guess how many points I won by. Bakers were the key card. I got a bit worried because he was able to stockpile tokens better than I was (I'm still getting used to the things) but everything came around in the end, I guess. You might say this game is very swingy, but there are also some interesting tactical decisions involved.
I win, 3-2
Game 6:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130822/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1377211400683.txt
Tournament game, and maybe one of the best Band of Misfits boards I have ever played. I get an early lead and choose Princess over Followers, which turned out to be a terrible idea. He slows me down to the point I can't catch up, even when shooting for Dukes. I didn't lose this by much, but it could've gone the other way and I regret getting Princess still.
Stealth Tomato wins and we tie 3-3
this is mostly a question for Kirian, but i'd love if we could see the standings somewhere after each round (how many points each player has). perhaps you could add it to the google doc if it isn't too big of a hassle? :) if not, no worries
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377296268276.txt): | Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377296268276.txt) | ragingduckd - 1, | Psyduck - 0 |
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377297206911.txt): | Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377297206911.txt) | ragingduckd - 2, | Psyduck - 0 |
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): | Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) | ragingduckd - 2, | Psyduck - 1 |
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377300797569.txt): | Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377300797569.txt) | ragingduckd - 3, | Psyduck - 1 |
An Ambassador game with Baker. I make my typical Ambassador mistake, picking up a Poor House and using it to win the Baker split instead of thinning aggressively. Soon Psyduck has far the slimmer deck and his four Bakers are doing more than my six. He picks up a Haggler, getting ready for some robust greening and I gamble on a Gold instead, hoping that some lucky turn with Poor House, Pawn, and Baker tokens will let me sneak the win. I come closer than I had expected given his mid-game lead, but I don't connect and Psyduck's extra Haggler Gold end up giving him the win he deserves.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 1
We'd appreciate some comments on our game and on this kingdom. We discussed it afterwards and neither of us was very confident in how we felt it should have been played. Between Ambassador and coin tokens, we both had a lot of difficult decisions to make.
An Ambassador game with Baker. I make my typical Ambassador mistake, picking up a Poor House and using it to win the Baker split instead of thinning aggressively. Soon Psyduck has far the slimmer deck and his four Bakers are doing more than my six. He picks up a Haggler, getting ready for some robust greening and I gamble on a Gold instead, hoping that some lucky turn with Poor House, Pawn, and Baker tokens will let me sneak the win. I come closer than I had expected given his mid-game lead, but I don't connect and Psyduck's extra Haggler Gold end up giving him the win he deserves.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 1
We'd appreciate some comments on our game and on this kingdom. We discussed it afterwards and neither of us was very confident in how we felt it should have been played. Between Ambassador and coin tokens, we both had a lot of difficult decisions to make.
Open Haggler/Silver and ignore Ambassador entirely. Without villages and draw, Ambassador slows you down more than it does an opponent who goes for BM with Haggler and Baker for support (getting a gold + Baker from Haggler should be pretty sweet).
I don't think this (no villages/draw, no ambassador) is always correct. But as a general rule of thumb, it's not bad, and here I agree with you.An Ambassador game with Baker. I make my typical Ambassador mistake, picking up a Poor House and using it to win the Baker split instead of thinning aggressively. Soon Psyduck has far the slimmer deck and his four Bakers are doing more than my six. He picks up a Haggler, getting ready for some robust greening and I gamble on a Gold instead, hoping that some lucky turn with Poor House, Pawn, and Baker tokens will let me sneak the win. I come closer than I had expected given his mid-game lead, but I don't connect and Psyduck's extra Haggler Gold end up giving him the win he deserves.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 1
We'd appreciate some comments on our game and on this kingdom. We discussed it afterwards and neither of us was very confident in how we felt it should have been played. Between Ambassador and coin tokens, we both had a lot of difficult decisions to make.
Open Haggler/Silver and ignore Ambassador entirely. Without villages and draw, Ambassador slows you down more than it does an opponent who goes for BM with Haggler and Baker for support (getting a gold + Baker from Haggler should be pretty sweet).
I made the biggest mistake of the series in this game: I purchased a second Sea Hag rather than a Monument.Well, after all, monument is just a sea hag that doesn't junk or discard the top card of their deck but gives you money.
Mallard Match (ragingduckd vs Psyduck)
Apothecary, Hermit, and Vault make me pass on Mountebank here despite my 5/2 start. I open Vault/- while Psyduck goes Potion/Hermit, picking up a pile of Upgrades and Mountebanks with University while I slog away with Vaults, Hermits and a pile of green. Psyduck gets a very clean deck with a lot of Gold and strong actions, but not quickly enough to overcome my VP lead.
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377296268276.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377296268276.txt) ragingduckd - 1, Psyduck - 0
Not happy at all how I approached this one. Seemed like Mountebank was important again, but as ragingduckd proved it wasn't that powerful here.Another Mountebank-trap board. The Baker token gives us flexibility and I open Caravan/Remodel to Psyduck's Lighthouse/Mountebank. Only one MB attack ends up getting through and I end up with most of the Caravans/Bakers. After picking up Outpost I'm almost playing two turns to Psyduck's one and win comfortably.
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377297206911.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377297206911.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 0
I don't think this (no villages/draw, no ambassador) is always correct. But as a general rule of thumb, it's not bad, and here I agree with you.An Ambassador game with Baker. I make my typical Ambassador mistake, picking up a Poor House and using it to win the Baker split instead of thinning aggressively. Soon Psyduck has far the slimmer deck and his four Bakers are doing more than my six. He picks up a Haggler, getting ready for some robust greening and I gamble on a Gold instead, hoping that some lucky turn with Poor House, Pawn, and Baker tokens will let me sneak the win. I come closer than I had expected given his mid-game lead, but I don't connect and Psyduck's extra Haggler Gold end up giving him the win he deserves.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 1
We'd appreciate some comments on our game and on this kingdom. We discussed it afterwards and neither of us was very confident in how we felt it should have been played. Between Ambassador and coin tokens, we both had a lot of difficult decisions to make.
Open Haggler/Silver and ignore Ambassador entirely. Without villages and draw, Ambassador slows you down more than it does an opponent who goes for BM with Haggler and Baker for support (getting a gold + Baker from Haggler should be pretty sweet).
(The biggest clear exception is if you are going for a deck with tons of great cantrips, but there are other cases with weak colony boards and such that it's also the play to get one - and only one - amb anyway).
I think we both played this one very poorly. There were several cantrips and reasonable engine parts on a board with Tournament and Horn of Plenty. I err first in buying a HoP just because I draw $5 and Psyduck follows suit, spending his $6 hands on Border Village with HoP or Masquerade and similar. Psyduck builds a slimmer engine with more HoPs but never quite gets to 8 uniques. I get to $8 to T10 and end up picking up most of the good prizes for a modest win.
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377300797569.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377300797569.txt) ragingduckd - 3, Psyduck - 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1377362953501.txtOh man. Getting 2p in the second shuffle, then buying a familiar, then having it miss the reshuffle all killed me.
Cellar, Moat, Forager, Familiar, Feast, Treasure Map, Rogue, Saboteur, Vault, Goons
Mail-mi missed Familiar and that decided the match.
I'm curious if it would be a good idea to skip Familiars and go for a lot of trashing from Foragers from the start.
yed 3It was fun!
mail-mi 0
Thank you mail-mi for the games. I was lucky in all of them, sorry for that. Good luck in next rounds.
An Ambassador game with Baker. I make my typical Ambassador mistake, picking up a Poor House and using it to win the Baker split instead of thinning aggressively. Soon Psyduck has far the slimmer deck and his four Bakers are doing more than my six. He picks up a Haggler, getting ready for some robust greening and I gamble on a Gold instead, hoping that some lucky turn with Poor House, Pawn, and Baker tokens will let me sneak the win. I come closer than I had expected given his mid-game lead, but I don't connect and Psyduck's extra Haggler Gold end up giving him the win he deserves.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt): Kingdom (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130823/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1377298821233.txt) ragingduckd - 2, Psyduck - 1
We'd appreciate some comments on our game and on this kingdom. We discussed it afterwards and neither of us was very confident in how we felt it should have been played. Between Ambassador and coin tokens, we both had a lot of difficult decisions to make.
Open Haggler/Silver and ignore Ambassador entirely. Without villages and draw, Ambassador slows you down more than it does an opponent who goes for BM with Haggler and Baker for support (getting a gold + Baker from Haggler should be pretty sweet).
Dammit. I kinda figured you'd say that. I should just ask myslf what Ambassador strategy SCSN could name to make me feel dumbest and then do that. :P
Okay. Explain it to me like I'm five. I'm obviously Ambassadorially-challenged.
1. When do I ignore Ambassador?
2. When do I take Ambassador and do anything other than just thin at top speed?
3. When do I open double-Ambassador?
4. When, if ever, do I ignore Lookout in favor of Ambassador?
jaybeez - florrat: 3-3I still have trouble figuring out when to go for Knights at all, and if you do how aggressively. I think it was losing the Knights split more than ignoring Remake that did me in, but I'm not sure. I did not play well here.
florrat wins 8-6 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377386153147.txt): Scheme, Bureaucrat, Quarry, Remake, Wandering Minstrel, Catacombs, Festival, Journeyman, Knights, Stables
A knight war. I tried to trash my deck down with remake, while jaybeez skipped remake, to make (almost) sure his stables always worked and to make my knight a less effective. I won the knight war which led to a win.
jaybeez wins 27-22 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377386844045.txt): Vagrant, Sage, Butcher, Counting House, Graverobber, Highway, Minion, Mountebank, Rabble, WitchI think Witch is better head-to-head with Mountebank, and maybe I'm right because I win the Curse split 6-4. Butcher is key here (Cursers into Duchies, Curses into Estates) and I go for a second one earlier than my opponent and it pays dividends. My Sages do some good but set up a bad reshuffle at one point and don't do much later in the game, Silvers might have been better.
We both opened 2/5 and we both went Curser Big Money with Butcher support. The main difference was that my initial curser was Mountebank and his curser was Witch. It was a really close match.
jaybeez wins 40-39 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377387672256.txt): Chapel, Ironmonger, Scout, Thief, Throne Room, Trader, Library, Soothsayer, Possession, ForgeI had planned to go for a super-slim deck with Possessions, Throne Rooms, and Ironmongers for lots of multi-Possession turns and I somehow lost track of that. I don't think I played well and I'm a little surprised I won. Was it luck?
I basically went Chapel big money with 1 library, while jaybeez went for Possession. After the game we both agreed that going Possession was a mistake, but he still managed to win the game with it.
florrat wins 39-31 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377387997659.txt): Menagerie, Feast, Scout, Smithy, Merchant Ship, Saboteur, Stables, Treasury, Hoard, Hunting GroundsYeah, I'm really into Stables these days. I think it was a mistake to open with, but Smithy/Silver is just much better here than anything you can do with 5/2. I don't think my strategy was awful but it wasn't great either.
I went Smithy big money, jaybeez went Stables big money. Smithy big money is definitely better, but jaybeez 5/2 opening made that less attractive, but probably he still had to open Merchant Ship/- or Smithy/-
florrat wins 49-36 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377388952908.txt): Stonemason, Ambassador, Fishing Village, Smugglers, Familiar, Journeyman, Library, Pillage, Saboteur, AltarMy Ambassadors collide before the second reshuffle, his don't. I also have some turns where I return fewer Coppers than I could in order to buy Fishing Villages. That's how I win that split but I get even further behind with the Ambs. I thought it would be more important to have lots of FVs to enable big draw with Libraries, but the power of Ambassador is not to be taken lightly.
An Ambassador war with FV support. I won the amb war (being help a lot by his terminal collision on T3), but jaybeez won the FV-split (7-3), but it turned out that winning the amb-war was more important.
jaybeez wins 42-15 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.510876c7e4b0ac7a7a0bb212.1377390166269.txt): Scrying Pool, Masquerade, Armory, Conspirator, Farming Village, Noble Brigand, Walled Village, Horn of Plenty, Journeyman, Grand MarketI have to say this was my most satisfying win in weeks--facing a loss for the round I win in dominant fashion with one of my favorite deck types, a totally over-the-top Scrying Pool engine. I'm particularly proud of my decision to go with HoP which worked out beautifully. Typically you want to minimize the number of Treasures in a SP deck, but I knew that HoP would be good because it'd almost always get at least a $4, which I needed, but also it wouldn't be too hard to grab GMs with it--and I managed to do that on three consecutive turns, T9-T11. At that point my deck starts to snowball pretty quickly, I pour on the GMs with some Conspirators on the side. I might have overbuilt a little bit but I was just so happy to have forced a draw that I allowed myself this pleasure.
We both went Masquerade - Scrying Pool. I made some mistakes early (my third masquerade should have been silver), and jaybeez' early HoP was very good picking up extra engine pieces. He was a few turns ahead building up his engine, which was too much to overcome.
EDIT: I just realized that in ALL six game the second player won.I hadn't noticed that. Very weird. But whatever, thank you florrat for the exciting match.
QuoteI made the biggest mistake of the series in this game: I purchased a second Sea Hag rather than a Monument.Well, after all, monument is just a sea hag that doesn't junk or discard the top card of their deck but gives you money.
Hi, i need help on how to find logs, because i forgot to grab them. Any help would be really appreciated.
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377367447114.txtYeah SR was a bit iffy here since lacking gainers. At least the +buy off TR is decent given the number of victory cards present. A winning strategy here is probably going to buy Witch at some point, which I didn't (partly because it wouldn't get played a lot in a bloated deck), so... not too surprising you won out. Though it is crazy how many points the SR racked up by the end.
Beggar, Chapel, Black Market, Trade Route, Tunnel, Cutpurse, Silk Road, Counting House, Inn, Treasury, Witch
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377368021233.txtDefinitely outplayed here. The +buy of Baron is more important than anything Mercenary does, because Apprentice can do trashing. Since there's no village, choice of terminal is crucial, and I chose the wrong one.
Urchin, Alchemist, Baron, Ironworks, Quarry, Thief, Apprentice, Mandarin, Mystic, Altar
I am not pleased with 5/2 on this board at all, but I go ahead and open Apprentice/-, blueblimp goes Ironworks/Urchin. I don't love Urchin or Mercenary here because Alchemist should counter them nicely. If you collide Urchins really soon it might be worth it, but that isn't the case for my opponent in this game. Our engines aren't very impressive here, I want to blame my draws but it's more likely I made some stupid purchases or Apprentice plays. I win this by getting an early lead and then aggressively trashing Province/Golds to end the game before my opponent can catch up. 18 turns to 4 Provinces looks so slow for what was available on the board though.
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377368585338.txtMy play this game was just terrible, with a gameplan that made no sense at all. Duchy/Duke seems plausibly the right way to go, and some kind of plan involving Squire/Nomad Camp/Courtyard seems infinitely better for that than the Lookout/Market Square shenanigans I tried. Also my copper buys in midgame didn't make any sense--I was thinking Duchy/Duke, but then I lost the split and had nuked any chance to switch to a Conspirator chain.
Courtyard, Squire, Lookout, Market Square, Conspirator, Nomad Camp, Spy, Duke, Royal Seal, Forge
My third game to get 5/2. The kingdom offers a two paths in my mind: Duchy/Duke with Squires/Nomad Camps or Provinces with big Conspirator engine. I go for the Duchy/Duke plan. My opponent opens Lookout/Market Square with the goal of getting a few Golds and contesting Duchies. I win the Duchy split 5/3 and my opponent hasn't been able to gain much gold, and his deck is now flooded with Copper. This makes a Conspirator chain impossible, so he doesn't have much hope of catching up on Provinces. He resigns before the piles can run out.
I really wanted to try the Conspirator engine, but 5/2 was no good for it. I'm interested in how fast that deck can clear Provinces. You would want to open Lookout/Conspirator I think. Get a second Lookout and a few Market Squares. Never gain Gold with Market Square and then lots of Spies/Market Squares/Conspirator until you can at least double Province.
Thanks for the match blueblimp!Thanks for the games too. Always fun to see how non-mirrors play out.
eliegel over Sharkbait 3-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377481958172.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482346430.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482783128.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt
Thanks for the games sharkbait, hopefully i'll have time to post a write up of this tomorrow.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt
If anyone can see anyway that I could have played the end-game better I'd love to hear comments. Because I felt like I set myself up perfectly and it just didn't pan out.
IMO, the brutal blow for me came on Turn 21 when I only got Colony/Estate off of my Tactician turn. I was expecting Colony/Duchy at the worst with a very likely chance of double Colony for the win.
Quoteeliegel over Sharkbait 3-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377481958172.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482346430.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482783128.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt
Thanks for the games sharkbait, hopefully i'll have time to post a write up of this tomorrow.
Game 1: I was hoping for the 6-Card golden deck w/ 2 lighthouses to protect against attacks. a great early Count makes me optimistic. But failure to get Lighthouses early (I got a couple of Silver) results in getting a couple of ruins on Turn 9. This sets me back as I never fully recover from that added junk. Well played by Eliegel, if those Silver had been Lighthouses, I think I could have done better and had a chance.