9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike.
What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?
What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?
I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
Right behind Wharf!What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?
I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
Right behind Wharf!What does Menagerie have to do with.. menageries?
I think that Menagerie is one of the most thematic cards in the game.
5. Guilds: The coin tokens are another thing that can give you such a power trip, and many of the cards use it. This expansion does a lot to boost and help optimize the many familiar strategies with the transformation of spending power to coin tokens. The set also adds a few new, coin token specific strategies. The overpay mechanic turned out to be something that isn't too hard to wrap your head around either. Still, I can't help but feel that the set is a bit lacking on its own.
5. Alchemy (Everything seems pretty solid, but some things seem like Guilds where it's more of "this effect has to go somewhere." Why do alchemists draw cards? Why do apprentices trash them? But University, Possession, Golem, Familiar fit pretty will with their functionality)
Apprentice is David Bronstein?5. Alchemy (Everything seems pretty solid, but some things seem like Guilds where it's more of "this effect has to go somewhere." Why do alchemists draw cards? Why do apprentices trash them? But University, Possession, Golem, Familiar fit pretty will with their functionality)
Apprentice is the Sorcerer's Apprentice. Remember how Mickey Mouse trashes a broom, only to end up with multiple brooms. Replace "broom" with "card" and you get what Apprentice does.
Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:
Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos
I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.
Gotta agree with him. I don't have any on Goko, and I don't feel any loss (though that may be because I don't own them or play on iso enough to see them much.Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:
Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos
I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.
To be fair, it probably wouldn't be a serious blow if the promos were removed. I like them a lot but would any of us really be saying "Hmmmm, something is missing" if we didn't have them?
9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.
....
1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome mystatus quo bias of putting this firstlove of this expansion.
9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.
....
1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome mystatus quo bias of putting this firstlove of this expansion.
I find this list curious, because to me Seaside is the expansion which has the most power creep. Using Qvist's rankings, Seaside has:
- 2 of the top 3 of the $3 cards (Ambassador, Fishing Village)
- The most powerful $4 card (Sea Hag)
- The 3rd best $5 card (Wharf)
- Several other cards such as Lighthouse, Warehouse and Caravan, that are very strong even if they don't get listed in the 'best of the best' category.
Now you could argue over whether Cornucopia has more or less power cards than this, but I'm intrigued that you use it as the sole justification for putting Cornucopia in last place, yet never even mention it while putting Seaside in first.
I actually did some calculations about Qvist rankings at one point recently. I looked at cards in top and bottom quintile of each list. This was before the $6+ list came out, and I excluded Alchemy and Promo cards entirely (treated them as if they didn't exist for purposes of calculating the quintiles).9: Cornucopia - this is the only expansion that suffers from power creep, I feel. Whether intentional or not, around half the cards are power cards for their cost, which is something I dislike. I don't mind a few cards being powerful, that makes the game fun in my opinion, but when half the set are that good, it's not much fun.
....
1: Seaside - My favourite expansion and it has been for a while. Durations are a lot of fun, and the set itself is very thematic. There's a few cards I dislike, such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag, but they aren't enough to overcome mystatus quo bias of putting this firstlove of this expansion.
I find this list curious, because to me Seaside is the expansion which has the most power creep. Using Qvist's rankings, Seaside has:
- 2 of the top 3 of the $3 cards (Ambassador, Fishing Village)
- The most powerful $4 card (Sea Hag)
- The 3rd best $5 card (Wharf)
- Several other cards such as Lighthouse, Warehouse and Caravan, that are very strong even if they don't get listed in the 'best of the best' category.
Now you could argue over whether Cornucopia has more or less power cards than this, but I'm intrigued that you use it as the sole justification for putting Cornucopia in last place, yet never even mention it while putting Seaside in first.
You just listed four cards out of 26 that are right at the top, compared to:
Hamlet is the #2 $2 card
Menagerie is around #4-5 on the $3's
Remake, Tournament, Young Witch are the #3-5 $4 cards
Hunting Party is about #4-5 on the $5's
That's 6 cards out of 13 that are right at the top of their price brackets. Almost every expansion has some top level cards, some middling cards, and some low cards. Cornucopia just happens to have way too many top level cards. Even including the other three cards you named, it's 7/26, or barely over a quarter of the cards, in the top quarter of cards. Without that, it's 4/26 in the top 10%, which is a little high, but not really significantly so.
It also helps that cards like Wharf and Ambassador are fun and powerful, while cards like Tournament and Hunting Party are the extremely boring kind of powerful. And I don't know if you've played Hunting Party in real life, let me tell you, the whole digging for cards is not fun.
8) IntrigueI hate it when this happens.
8) IntrigueI hate it when this happens.
You just listed four cards out of 26 that are right at the top, compared to:
Hamlet is the #2 $2 card
Menagerie is around #4-5 on the $3's
Remake, Tournament, Young Witch are the #3-5 $4 cards
Hunting Party is about #4-5 on the $5's
That's 6 cards out of 13 that are right at the top of their price brackets. Almost every expansion has some top level cards, some middling cards, and some low cards. Cornucopia just happens to have way too many top level cards. Even including the other three cards you named, it's 7/26, or barely over a quarter of the cards, in the top quarter of cards. Without that, it's 4/26 in the top 10%, which is a little high, but not really significantly so.
It also helps that cards like Wharf and Ambassador are fun and powerful, while cards like Tournament and Hunting Party are the extremely boring kind of powerful. And I don't know if you've played Hunting Party in real life, let me tell you, the whole digging for cards is not fun.
In addition to the ones I mentioned, Ghost Ship, Tactician, Salvager and Warehouse are also in the top 25%
If you think that Seaside cards are more fun, then that's a perfectly valid reason to rank it higher. Just seemed weird that you ranked Cornucopia dead last solely because of it's power then don't even mention it for Seaside.
There are some rather bland ones I dislike though, such as Duchess, Inn and Farmland and the mechanics in there don't excite me all that much.Bland ? I would say subtle.
Quote from: PiemasterThere are some rather bland ones I dislike though, such as Duchess, Inn and Farmland and the mechanics in there don't excite me all that much.Bland ? I would say subtle.
Duchess is a $2 card, and those cards are not game-changer, obviously. But I think duchess is a particularly interesting one, I think.
Farmland is another really interesting card, that 2VP potential lead changes the dynamic of the game.
And Inn is wonderful for tactical engine plays...
As a Goko freeloader (I'm not going to pay for a service that disconnects 20% of the time and makes me look bad for it), I've been playing a disproportionately high amount of base only games, and it most definitely seems to be the worst set.I have to say, as a Goko freeloader (who doesn't actually play Goko, but has before), playing with only one set many times in a row always makes me feel rather jaded against that set.
Really, the biggest disappointment is easily that the set is not bigger than it isDude, it would be really hard to make a set that is bigger than it is.
I want a set that's well-sized. Well, big compared to a small set, small compared to a big set, and average compared to sets of the same size as itself.Really, the biggest disappointment is easily that the set is not bigger than it isDude, it would be really hard to make a set that is bigger than it is.
I love King's Court. It's my favorite card.
Set | {Like / Dislike} |
Base | {Library / Feast} |
Intrigue | {Masquerade / Minion} |
Seaside | {Navigator / the fact that the set has 2 cheap junking attacks} |
Prosperity | {Counting House / Goons} |
Cornucopia | {Jester / Hunting Party} |
Hinterlands | {Trader / Fool's Gold in a 2-player game} |
Guilds | {Butcher / none yet} |
Dark Ages | {Procession in Dark Ages heavy games / Rebuild, especially without Shelters} |
Alchemy | {Philosopher's Stone / Scrying Pool} |
Promos | {Stash / Governor} |
Wow, it's amazing how many people hate attacks. Best part of Dominion, IMO. Well, good attacks are.I like attacks in theory, but the problem is that a lot of the attacks that actually exist are just frustratingly strong. I went through Qvist's lists and counted, and it turns out that out of 31 attacks, 16 are in the top quartile of their price group (17/32 if you count IGG). I think it makes sense that generally people would dislike strong cards, so it's not surprising that they end up hating attacks. Plus, a lot of strong cards are a fun strong, like Fishing Village or Wharf or King's Court, but attack cards tend to not be a fun strong. They tend to be "I got my attack faster than you, so you can just sit there and watch me play now." At least if you get KC before I do, then maybe I can get my own KC later and have some fun with it even if I know I'm going to lose. But usually attacks aren't particularly fun for the player playing them, and they're a lot less fun for the player getting hit by them.
I like attacks in theory, but the problem is that a lot of the attacks that actually exist are just frustratingly strong.
I hadn't really considered that. I haven't played much multiplayer, but the Curses and Ruins have a higher ratio of Curse/Ruin-to-player with more players; wouldn't that make junking attacks generally stronger? Or is it just that in multiplayer, hurting other players isn't as significant, and that's enough to make up for the higher ratio of junk cards?I like attacks in theory, but the problem is that a lot of the attacks that actually exist are just frustratingly strong.
I think a significant part of this is the community's bias towards two player games, which is not what Dominion was designed for. In a four player game, you can often forego an attack card with less risk.
Prosperity:
Love: Watchtower | Hate: Talisman
I hadn't really considered that. I haven't played much multiplayer, but the Curses and Ruins have a higher ratio of Curse/Ruin-to-player with more players; wouldn't that make junking attacks generally stronger? Or is it just that in multiplayer, hurting other players isn't as significant, and that's enough to make up for the higher ratio of junk cards?I like attacks in theory, but the problem is that a lot of the attacks that actually exist are just frustratingly strong.
I think a significant part of this is the community's bias towards two player games, which is not what Dominion was designed for. In a four player game, you can often forego an attack card with less risk.
Gotta agree with him. I don't have any on Goko, and I don't feel any loss (though that may be because I don't own them or play on iso enough to see them much.Call it a cop-out if you want, but my rankings would be as follows:
Base = Intrigue = Seaside = Alchemy = Prosperity = Cornucopia = Hinterlands = Dark Ages = Guilds = Promos
I think it would be a serious blow to the game if any of these sets were removed. I love them all.
To be fair, it probably wouldn't be a serious blow if the promos were removed. I like them a lot but would any of us really be saying "Hmmmm, something is missing" if we didn't have them?
I don't think it's wrong to consider it; in multiplayer games, you are probably going to eat more Curses, and that should have some effect on your strategy. But it doesn't make junking attacks stronger, it makes them stranger, in the sense that they're easier to ignore on the condition that the other players don't ignore them.I hadn't really considered that. I haven't played much multiplayer, but the Curses and Ruins have a higher ratio of Curse/Ruin-to-player with more players; wouldn't that make junking attacks generally stronger?Curse to players is the wrong ratio to consider.
Wow, it's amazing how many people hate attacks. Best part of Dominion, IMO. Well, good attacks are.I like attacks in theory, but the problem is that a lot of the attacks that actually exist are just frustratingly strong. I went through Qvist's lists and counted, and it turns out that out of 31 attacks, 16 are in the top quartile of their price group (17/32 if you count IGG). I think it makes sense that generally people would dislike strong cards, so it's not surprising that they end up hating attacks. Plus, a lot of strong cards are a fun strong, like Fishing Village or Wharf or King's Court, but attack cards tend to not be a fun strong. They tend to be "I got my attack faster than you, so you can just sit there and watch me play now." At least if you get KC before I do, then maybe I can get my own KC later and have some fun with it even if I know I'm going to lose. But usually attacks aren't particularly fun for the player playing them, and they're a lot less fun for the player getting hit by them.
Interestingly, 8 out of 31 are in the bottom quartile (which is a lot because 16 are in the top quartile; only 7/31 are in the middle 50%). Is it really that much harder to judge the strength of an attack card than it is to judge the strength of an arbitrary card in general?
Sure the cards are "mean"No, they're above average, that's the whole point.
Hunting Party or Tourament (I hate both of these cards with a passion)
A lot of people dislike Hunting Party because it is is strong in a way that deliberately encourages straightforward strategies that you can't add anything to. HP is amazing when you have very little variety in your deck, like the standard HP+X deck with copper, silver, gold, a terminal silver or equivalent, and as many HPs as you can get. And it's fairly difficult to add creativity to this, since every unique card you add makes the HP stack more likely to break down.
Hunting Party or Tourament (I hate both of these cards with a passion)
Tournament I understand, but Hunting Party?
Perhaps, like Rebuild, Hunting Party needs cards from its own expansion to hold it back.No, like Rebuild, Hunting Party needs cards from Rebuild's expansion to hold it back.
A lot of people dislike Hunting Party because it is is strong in a way that deliberately encourages straightforward strategies that you can't add anything to. HP is amazing when you have very little variety in your deck, like the standard HP+X deck with copper, silver, gold, a terminal silver or equivalent, and as many HPs as you can get. And it's fairly difficult to add creativity to this, since every unique card you add makes the HP stack more likely to break down.
Ironic, since it's a Cornucopia card.
Or is it something else? Because I don't really see how either of those cards obviates Tournament, especially if they cost more than it.I think the idea is just that having 2 peddler variants (and Tournament, in addition to everything else, is effectively a peddler early in the game) in a small set would seem redundant; people would complain.
Is it
+1$
+1 Action
[the part of Hunting Party that makes you dig for a unique card]