Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: ednever on June 28, 2013, 10:37:48 am
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I was part of the beta and said basically, "I will never use this, let alone pay money for it."
Now with Guilds out and my physical copy not yet delivered I thought I would give it a try.
It's definitely better, but still not a complete product imho.
Opinions:
1- I tried playing without buying, just to get a feel for it. A waste of time. I posted some thoughts while trying to do it in another thread. Just brutal
2- I purchased everything. $45 price is not unreasonable (I think that is lower than it was, no?)
3- I started ou just playing bots to get a feel for things. They aren't good, but they sure aren't bad. Good enough that you have to pay attention, but bad enough that you can always build an engine. Which is kind of fun
4- Then I started hosting games...
5- The lobby takes forever to load.
6- The games save your conditions, which is nice and fast
7- People join games quickly. That's nice. And it's relatively easy to check their stats. Knowing speed of play would be a lot better
8- The games are still pretty slow. Iso games were fast and easy. This makes every game feel like, 'an event'. Which means when a game sucks, it feels worse.Which is more like real life. Which is also why I tend to play designed games in real life, vs random ones. The time it takes means I'm more picky about playing bad ones
9- I've been slow rolled 100% of the time I've been dominating games so far.Things are fine when i'm losing, or when it's close, but when i'm running away with the game, people just seem to sit there and i have to wait them out. it's painful.
Also I like this new Advisor card a lot......
Ed
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Great to have you back! You should get the extension, fyi.
Goko has a lot of problems, but no longer any crippling problems, and it's always getting better, and the new cards are so much fun! Dominion is Dominion.
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I'm in ednever's boat: Trying out Goko after avoiding it since the beta. It definitely isn't horrible, but I also think it can be difficult to play a game if you aren't hosting. Is there anything easier than just sitting in a lobby waiting for someone to open a game and then join it and pray s/he doesn't boot you?
Can I unlock anything worthwhile from the campaign?
Why doesn't it work at my office (which to my knowledge doesn't block any sites)?
These questions and some other smaller ones are what hold me back from dishing out the $45...
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Somewhat irrelevant, but I think I am the only person on this forum who literally cannot afford Goko.
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Great to have you back! You should get the extension, fyi.
Goko has a lot of problems, but no longer any crippling problems, and it's always getting better, and the new cards are so much fun! Dominion is Dominion.
Got it before I even started. I played once on a computer where I hadn't downloaded it yet and it was almost unplayable. I either had to pay a lot on attention and turn the animations on slow, or I just played blind most turns (al a two player solitaire...)
Too bad there's not a point counter. Especially with the full log available, the only difference is the hassle.
Ed
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I haven't spent a single cent on Goko. The trick is that you have to play an annoyingly large amount of Base only bot games to get a decent rating. If your rating is high enough, you can join other high rated games, which usually have all cards.
The issues with this are:
1. Base only games are very boring after a while
2. Maybe it's just me, but there's a lot fewer "4000+" games than before. It seems like there's a big divide between around 4500 and 3000 that doesn't have very many people.
3. You can't host. Well, you can, but not worth it.
4. Finding a game takes a lot longer when you're not hosting. You're competing with all the other high rated people who haven't bought the cards.
5. You absolutely have to maintain a good rating, which means that you have to be at least decently active (1-2 games a day, probably more) Otherwise your rating will decay, like it did on Iso.
It's definitely a hassle, but Dominion is Dominion...
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Somewhat irrelevant, but I think I am the only person on this forum who literally cannot afford Goko.
Given the presence of 13 year olds who can't legally have a job, a credit card, or a Paypal account, I think you're incorrect.
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Great to have you back! You should get the extension, fyi.
Goko has a lot of problems, but no longer any crippling problems, and it's always getting better, and the new cards are so much fun! Dominion is Dominion.
Got it before I even started. I played once on a computer where I hadn't downloaded it yet and it was almost unplayable. I either had to pay a lot on attention and turn the animations on slow, or I just played blind most turns (al a two player solitaire...)
Too bad there's not a point counter. Especially with the full log available, the only difference is the hassle.
Ed
Oh, but there is. Type #vpon in the title or chat.
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Great to have you back! You should get the extension, fyi.
Goko has a lot of problems, but no longer any crippling problems, and it's always getting better, and the new cards are so much fun! Dominion is Dominion.
Got it before I even started. I played once on a computer where I hadn't downloaded it yet and it was almost unplayable. I either had to pay a lot on attention and turn the animations on slow, or I just played blind most turns (al a two player solitaire...)
Too bad there's not a point counter. Especially with the full log available, the only difference is the hassle.
Ed
Make sure you are using the actual extensions and not an old Greasemonkey script. A "User Settings" button should be there under your avatar when you log in to Goko and you can turn on the point counter. #vpon and #vpoff toggle it in the chat.
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I'm in ednever's boat: Trying out Goko after avoiding it since the beta. It definitely isn't horrible, but I also think it can be difficult to play a game if you aren't hosting. Is there anything easier than just sitting in a lobby waiting for someone to open a game and then join it and pray s/he doesn't boot you?
Can I unlock anything worthwhile from the campaign?
Why doesn't it work at my office (which to my knowledge doesn't block any sites)?
These questions and some other smaller ones are what hold me back from dishing out the $45...
Unlock: Governor
Office: No idea
Ed
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I also just joined. I'm glad everyone's joining now. Though I moderately regret joining since now I'm sinking way too much time into it again... :)
8- The games are still pretty slow. Iso games were fast and easy. This makes every game feel like, 'an event'. Which means when a game sucks, it feels worse.Which is more like real life.
Do you have the animations set to "fast"? It seems to me like it doesn't actually take any longer than iso except for cards you have to drag-and-drop. But maybe it's also affected by opponent's animation speed since you have to wait for them to watch the animation before they finish their turn...
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Slow for a few reasons I see so far:
1- starting and ending a game take a lot longer
2- i have the annimations on fast. Maybe I need to move them to the faster level,, but i'm afraid i will miss something
3- the dragging and stuff takes longer. I particularly don't like reordering the deck. Navigator both took forever AND was hard on my mind. Usualy when I put stuff on top of my deck I figure out: "This is what I want on top, ten this, then this, etc." But with Goko you have to do it in the reverse order - so "This is what I want as my fifth card, then my fourth card, ten my third card, etc."
I made a ton of mistakes in that game doing it that way. Especiially without undo.
Ed
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3- the dragging and stuff takes longer. I particularly don't like reordering the deck. Navigator both took forever AND was hard on my mind. Usualy when I put stuff on top of my deck I figure out: "This is what I want on top, ten this, then this, etc." But with Goko you have to do it in the reverse order - so "This is what I want as my fifth card, then my fourth card, ten my third card, etc."
That messed me up a ton at first, but after a while you just get used to, "here's the thing I want to see last, here's the thing I want to see before that, here's the thing I want to see first, etc."
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Given the presence of 13 year olds who can't legally have a job, a credit card, or a Paypal account, I think you're incorrect.
Uh, okay, should I amend that to "adult," then?
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Given the presence of 13 year olds who can't legally have a job, a credit card, or a Paypal account, I think you're incorrect.
Uh, okay, should I amend that to "adult," then?
I doubt you "literally" can't afford it then. $45 is 1 day of work at minimum wage. You just don't think it's worth it compared to the other alternatives for your $45. If you work one holiday, or consume 10-15% less (or less expensive) food or carpool or take public transit or something like that for a month or 2, you can save $45. You just don't want to do that. That's a valid choice, but technically you can "literally" afford it.
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My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
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I was scared off by Goko for the longest time from all the posts. Finally took the plunge a couple months back and was pleasantly surprised. I never cared for Iso so always avoided it. With that, I have nothing to compare Goko to except the physical game. There is a learning curve with some fiddly Goko things but after some "game mistakes" it doesn't take long to get in the groove. $45 seems to be a fair price but I wish the promos were available for purchase. I'd give Goko a B- at this point.
My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
Been there. He's right. He can't afford it.
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I'm 16, but I could afford it, I bought most of the expansions irl...
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My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
You can get a job as a tutor or TA or cutting grass or sell some of your stuff. If you have the time to potentially play on Goko, you have the ability to get the money needed to pay for it. It's pretty easy for an adult in the U.S. to come up with $45. Even homeless people can come up with $45 for crack. I'm not saying it's worth it, but I guarantee you it's "literally" possible.
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I think this is one of those situations where being sympathetic is better than being technically correct.
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Make the next Fire Emblem 0% growths video and I'll send you $30.
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When you are poor, living day to day, up to your ears in debt (where I have been) you can not "afford" to spend $45 on something frivolous. I am guessing I could walk up to him today, hand him $45 and he still couldn't "afford" to pay for Goko. He'd could, although, "afford" to buy dinner or toilet paper or a birthday card or socks...
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My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
You can get a job as a tutor or TA or cutting grass or sell some of your stuff. If you have the time to potentially play on Goko, you have the ability to get the money needed to pay for it. It's pretty easy for an adult in the U.S. to come up with $45. Even homeless people can come up with $45 for crack. I'm not saying it's worth it, but I guarantee you it's "literally" possible.
Reminded me of The Departed... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc-zAbL2Uw)
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Given the presence of 13 year olds who can't legally have a job, a credit card, or a Paypal account, I think you're incorrect.
Uh, okay, should I amend that to "adult," then?
I doubt you "literally" can't afford it then. $45 is 1 day of work at minimum wage.
I chuckled a little. Minimal daily wage here is 10$. $45 a day is quite a lot, as well.
On a different topic, what turned me off a lot is after some games when I got to 4000+, 2 next games froze and than disconnected after 15 mins of freeze time. Ugh.
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My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
You can get a job as a tutor or TA or cutting grass or sell some of your stuff. If you have the time to potentially play on Goko, you have the ability to get the money needed to pay for it. It's pretty easy for an adult in the U.S. to come up with $45. Even homeless people can come up with $45 for crack. I'm not saying it's worth it, but I guarantee you it's "literally" possible.
Reminded me of The Departed... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc-zAbL2Uw)
Oh man, don't get me started on The Departed. How Martin Scorsese won four Oscars for making an inferior version of a fantastic Hong Kong movie, I will never know. If you haven't seen Infernal Affairs, I highly recommend it.
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When you are poor, living day to day, up to your ears in debt (where I have been) you can not "afford" to spend $45 on something frivolous. I am guessing I could walk up to him today, hand him $45 and he still couldn't "afford" to pay for Goko. He'd could, although, "afford" to buy dinner or toilet paper or a birthday card or socks...
Yeah, pretty much this. I bet there are other adults on the forum who also cannot afford Goko, though that's neither here nor there. On the other hand, there do seem to be a number of people here who have not actually experienced being poor and/or underemployed.
I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet.
Please, please tell me this is because you're less than three weeks into the job. If not, you're a slave, not a worker...
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My parents (and soon to be student loans) pay for my transportation and food, and I work without pay at a research lab - or, at least, they haven't paid me yet. So no, I literally can't afford Goko. I can't even afford to go out and eat.
You can get a job as a tutor or TA or cutting grass or sell some of your stuff. If you have the time to potentially play on Goko, you have the ability to get the money needed to pay for it. It's pretty easy for an adult in the U.S. to come up with $45. Even homeless people can come up with $45 for crack. I'm not saying it's worth it, but I guarantee you it's "literally" possible.
Reminded me of The Departed... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc-zAbL2Uw)
Oh man, don't get me started on The Departed. How Martin Scorsese won four Oscars for making an inferior version of a fantastic Hong Kong movie, I will never know. If you haven't seen Infernal Affairs, I highly recommend it.
The most popular theory I've heard is it was the Academy saying, "Hey Martin, so...you made some classics, but we never gave you an award, so here you go."
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When you are poor, living day to day, up to your ears in debt (where I have been) you can not "afford" to spend $45 on something frivolous. I am guessing I could walk up to him today, hand him $45 and he still couldn't "afford" to pay for Goko. He'd could, although, "afford" to buy dinner or toilet paper or a birthday card or socks...
Yeah, pretty much this. I bet there are other adults on the forum who also cannot afford Goko, though that's neither here nor there. On the other hand, there do seem to be a number of people here who have not actually experienced being poor and/or underemployed.
Oh I understand being broke, and not spending money on "frivolous" things. What I don't understand is going on the internet and complaining about it. The other people who can't afford it because they have more important things to do with their money are there, but just not complaining on this forum. I didn't really mean to offend anyone, but to me, for someone to come out here and say "look at me I'm literally the poorest person on the internet, please feel sorry for me because I can't buy a game" is offensive.
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I don't think that is what he said; if you didn't want to be offensive, I don't know why you would characterise him that way.
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Great to have you back! You should get the extension, fyi.
Goko has a lot of problems, but no longer any crippling problems, and it's always getting better, and the new cards are so much fun! Dominion is Dominion.
Got it before I even started. I played once on a computer where I hadn't downloaded it yet and it was almost unplayable. I either had to pay a lot on attention and turn the animations on slow, or I just played blind most turns (al a two player solitaire...)
Too bad there's not a point counter. Especially with the full log available, the only difference is the hassle.
Ed
Oh, but there is. Type #vpon in the title or chat.
Thanks man!
Ed
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Make the next Fire Emblem 0% growths video and I'll send you $30.
Heh, you don't need to send me any money for that.
I didn't really mean to offend anyone, but to me, for someone to come out here and say "look at me I'm literally the poorest person on the internet, please feel sorry for me because I can't buy a game" is offensive.
Oh, is that what I said?
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I didn't really mean to offend anyone, but to me, for someone to come out here and say "look at me I'm literally the poorest person on the internet, please feel sorry for me because I can't buy a game" is offensive.
Oh, is that what I said?
Pretty much. You said:
Somewhat irrelevant, but I think I am the only person on this forum who literally cannot afford Goko.
And that's your whole post. Clearly you're aware that your comment is irrelevant to the thread, since you say so. So why not just not post it? It would appear the only reason you have for posting it is because you want to whine about some personal "problem" unrelated to the thread. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know what the point of your post was.
Anyway, if you're that concerned about Goko and have the time to go on forums and look for threads about it to post irrelevant whines on, then you probably have the time to figure out how to get enough money to buy some of the sets. That's all I'm saying.
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I can't afford all the expansions, because I need that money to buy cymbals.
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Life would be a lot easier for a lot of people if time were trivially convertable to money. It's not.
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Pretty much. You said:
Okay, thanks for proving my point. So that's clearly not what I said. It's your admission!
And that's your whole post. Clearly you're aware that your comment is irrelevant to the thread, since you say so. So why not just not post it? It would appear the only reason you have for posting it is because you want to whine about some personal "problem" unrelated to the thread. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know what the point of your post was.
Please excuse me for posting something somewhat irrelevant. I'm sure that nobody else here is guilty of saying irrelevant things. Young Nick said that he isn't willing to shell out $45 for Goko because of doubts about its quality; I then added that I can't shell out $45 for Goko because I can't.
Anyway, if you're that concerned about Goko and have the time to go on forums and look for threads about it to post irrelevant whines on, then you probably have the time to figure out how to get enough money to buy some of the sets. That's all I'm saying.
Hey, I'm sure you know a lot about me (hint: you don't), so you're totally justified in being this presumptuous.
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Life would be a lot easier for a lot of people if time were trivially convertable to money. It's not.
Isn't it though? Mechanical turk still exists, so even in a hypothetical situation where there's no job of any sort available, anyone with an internet connection is capable of non-zero income.
Not that that's an effective use of time...
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Back on topic...
8- The games are still pretty slow. Iso games were fast and easy. This makes every game feel like, 'an event'. Which means when a game sucks, it feels worse.Which is more like real life. Which is also why I tend to play designed games in real life, vs random ones. The time it takes means I'm more picky about playing bad ones
This is the only thing that bugs me much about Goko now. The animations aren't a problem anymore. It's the click, lag, click, lag cycle that gets annoying after a while, especially when doing a pre-planned series of of several clicks (like discarding to Margrave).
Unfortunately the extension has no hope to help with this at all, since I guess it's their server that's slow (or my connection to their server?).
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It's because your local machine is verifying every event with the server before processing anything on your end. You click discard, you send the instruction to the server, the server sends back the instruction to play the animation, your machine plays the animation.
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Back on topic...
8- The games are still pretty slow. Iso games were fast and easy. This makes every game feel like, 'an event'. Which means when a game sucks, it feels worse.Which is more like real life. Which is also why I tend to play designed games in real life, vs random ones. The time it takes means I'm more picky about playing bad ones
This is the only thing that bugs me much about Goko now. The animations aren't a problem anymore. It's the click, lag, click, lag cycle that gets annoying after a while, especially when doing a pre-planned series of of several clicks (like discarding to Margrave).
Unfortunately the extension has no hope to help with this at all, since I guess it's their server that's slow (or my connection to their server?).
Agreed. It's worse when you have a ton of Urchins in your deck that you are playing every turn. Each new attack prompts a question for every single Urchin every time. Ugh.
I know that is the way it is supposed to be, but still... it is very tedious.
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It's because your local machine is verifying every event with the server before processing anything on your end. You click discard, you send the instruction to the server, the server sends back the instruction to play the animation, your machine plays the animation.
Good God. Please tell me you're making this up.
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It's because your local machine is verifying every event with the server before processing anything on your end. You click discard, you send the instruction to the server, the server sends back the instruction to play the animation, your machine plays the animation.
Exactly, but it doesn't need to be that way. Of course it would require some implementation work (and implementation is always harder than it sounds), but here are some example solutions:
- For decisions that are guaranteed to be simultaneous (Chapel trashing, Militia discard, Cartographer discard, etc.), have the client batch up your choices before sending them to the server.
- Better yet, make a UI where you select cards (changing the colour of their glowing halo, maybe) and then confirm your decision by clicking a button.
- Make the server faster.
And now I realize that the first two of these would be possible in an extension (but not easy!).
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The client should just be aware of different types of decisions - choose a card, choose a set of cards, choose an ordering, &c. and be able to submit those decisions atomically. That would be the sensible way to do it...