Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: NoMoreFun on June 15, 2013, 06:14:38 pm
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It seems like its best functionality is done better by cheaper cards
It tends to be outclassed by Altar, Rebuild, Graverobber, Butcher, Taxman, Hermit etc. in the things it can do. The combination of effects is powerful, but none of those cards are limited to that particular function either.
What Expand does uniquely, among other things, is:
Copper->$3 Card that isn't a Treasure
$5 Treasure->Province
Estate->Power $5->Province all on its own
This is all good, but is that really enough to justify it costing $7? What would make Expand overpowered at $6?
Is it just a thematic thing that it costs $3 more than Remodel?
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It seems like its best functionality is done better by cheaper cards
It tends to be outclassed by Altar, Rebuild, Graverobber, Butcher, Taxman, Hermit etc. in the things it can do. The combination of effects is powerful, but none of those cards are limited to that particular function either.
What Expand does uniquely, among other things, is:
Copper->$3 Card that isn't a Treasure
$5 Treasure->Province
Estate->Power $5->Province all on its own
This is all good, but is that really enough to justify it costing $7? What would make Expand overpowered at $6?
Is it just a thematic thing that it costs $3 more than Remodel?
Personally, yes.
Would be fine at 6.
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For Expand, the difference between $6 and $7 isn't usually very important, because it's not a card you want like ASAP most of the time. It's not like Goons, where you just want to get it as soon as you can. Expand is typically best as a midgame addition to a deck to serve some purpose, so by the time you want it, you are probably spending a big hand to buy it, and it's not so important whether it costs $6 and $7. OBviously it would be better at $6 but probably not overpowered at all. I like the card a lot, although I do think Altar is a pretty substantial boost over it, though they do different things.
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It comes with prosperity and expanding into provinces, colonies, and platinum is important.
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It seems like its best functionality is done better by cheaper cards
It tends to be outclassed by Altar, Rebuild, Graverobber, Butcher, Taxman, Hermit etc. in the things it can do. The combination of effects is powerful, but none of those cards are limited to that particular function either.
What Expand does uniquely, among other things, is:
Copper->$3 Card that isn't a Treasure
$5 Treasure->Province
Estate->Power $5->Province all on its own
This is all good, but is that really enough to justify it costing $7? What would make Expand overpowered at $6?
Is it just a thematic thing that it costs $3 more than Remodel?
You're falling into the same logical trap that suggests Steward is a terrible card because each of its options is worth $2.
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It seems like its best functionality is done better by cheaper cards
It tends to be outclassed by Altar, Rebuild, Graverobber, Butcher, Taxman, Hermit etc. in the things it can do. The combination of effects is powerful, but none of those cards are limited to that particular function either.
What Expand does uniquely, among other things, is:
Copper->$3 Card that isn't a Treasure
$5 Treasure->Province
Estate->Power $5->Province all on its own
This is all good, but is that really enough to justify it costing $7? What would make Expand overpowered at $6?
Is it just a thematic thing that it costs $3 more than Remodel?
You're falling into the same logical trap that suggests Steward is a terrible card because each of its options is worth $2.
Yes, but each of those mentioned cards also have much added functionality.
Steward is only $3. I'm thinking expand should only be $6.
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It seems like its best functionality is done better by cheaper cards
It tends to be outclassed by Altar, Rebuild, Graverobber, Butcher, Taxman, Hermit etc. in the things it can do. The combination of effects is powerful, but none of those cards are limited to that particular function either.
What Expand does uniquely, among other things, is:
Copper->$3 Card that isn't a Treasure
$5 Treasure->Province
Estate->Power $5->Province all on its own
This is all good, but is that really enough to justify it costing $7? What would make Expand overpowered at $6?
Is it just a thematic thing that it costs $3 more than Remodel?
You're falling into the same logical trap that suggests Steward is a terrible card because each of its options is worth $2.
Yes, but each of those mentioned cards also have much added functionality.
Steward is only $3. I'm thinking expand should only be $6.
Sure, but you've also only mentioned some of the things that are unique to Expand. Expand's unique ability is its versatility; only Remodel and Butcher have the same versatility, and they're cheaper because they "produce" less value.
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If I play Baker, then Butcher, I can turn a Duchy into a Province, but at the cost of a Coin token.
If I play Baker, then Expand, I can turn a Duchy into a Province, and I have a Coin token to spend on my buy.
Yes, Butcher is more flexible, but it requires the payment of Coin tokens - hence the lower cost for it.
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I suspect that it's so you can't Expand Silver into Expand.
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I suspect that it's so you can't Expand Silver into Expand.
That's a pretty good explanation. You can't self propagate Altar, Rebuild or Graverobber from any base card either (in normal circumstances).
I feel much more comfortable with the card now.
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I suspect that it's so you can't Expand Silver into Expand.
Oh, but you can after playing 4 Highways.
Sorry, I had to.
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I suspect that it's so you can't Expand Silver into Expand.
Oh, but you can after playing 4 Highways.
Sorry, I had to.
Or quarry (via black market).
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All this talk about costs, first Chapel, now Expand.
I think Expand is a bit overpriced, to be honest, especially now that we've seen Butcher at $5.
Expand forces you to trash a card when you play it (matters for Throne Rooming/Goleming into it), while Butcher gives you Coins regardless whether you actually trash a card.
Being able to play an Upgrade/Develop now and Expand next turn is pretty strong. So strong I think Butcher could even be $6 or Expand could drop down to $6, just to make them closer to each other.
But Expand may have gotten the Prosperity treatment of "let's make a bunch of $7 cards!" which in hindsight wasn't such a good idea perhaps.
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think costs matter a whole lot. Whether you buy a card or not depends much more on whether it fits in your deck and whether you're willing to pay the opportunity cost instead of its listed cost. Would Scout be bought way more if it was a $2? Probably not.
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Expand forces you to trash a card when you play it (matters for Throne Rooming/Goleming into it), while Butcher gives you Coins regardless whether you actually trash a card.
It matters for more than Throne/Golem/Herald. Sometimes you will have Expand/Butcher in hand with a spare action, but not want to trash a card. Butcher still gives you a substantial boost in that case, while Expand is just an expensive brick.
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I bet I go for Expand at $7 almost as much as I would go for Expand at $6.
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I wonder if Expand would still be fine at $7 if you gained the card in hand (like Mine or Trading Post). It does feel a bit expensive at $7 even though I buy it sometimes.
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I wonder if Expand would still be fine at $7 if you gained the card in hand (like Mine or Trading Post). It does feel a bit expensive at $7 even though I buy it sometimes.
If expand gained to hand it would be underpriced at $7.
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Top of deck?
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Top of deck?
A lot of Expand-ing is done when greening, so unless top of deck was optional, that would be a drawback rather than a benefit... I like it as an option, though... But the chance to turn a silver into a GM or Goon and topdeck it would be pretty powerful.