Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion: Guilds Previews => Topic started by: sitnaltax on June 04, 2013, 01:22:50 am
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It seems likely that Guilds will have a curse-giver available. Based only on Baker, here's my guess:
$5 - Action
Choose one: +1 Action, or gain a coin token.
Each other player may discard one coin token. Any player who does not gains a Curse.
I don't think this is quite as powerful as Witch/Mountebank (I don't think a Coin is worth quite $2, and the Curse is conditional) but I think it's playable. And it provides coins itself, so there's no awkwardness of a card that refers to coins with no coin-givers in the Kingdom.
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My guess is that it will employ the other new mechanic, and will be a card which curses on gain if you pay extra. Could use both, potentially.
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I doubt a curse on overpay. IGG needed to be a copper+ to make it fair at a 5 price point. Tossing a curse into a deck with a buy is powerful.
You're talking costing at least +2 more for the curse effect, putting the cost around 7 or 8
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Maybe you need to overpay money AND +buys to deal out curses...
Action
Effect: X
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You may overpay: For each $1+buy you overpaid, your opponents gain a curse
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Maybe you need to overpay money AND +buys to deal out curses...
Action
Effect: X
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You may overpay: For each $1+buy you overpaid, your opponents gain a curse
But then it's extremely weak in sets with +buy. And curses make +buys harder to match up with significant quantities of money in general.
More broadly, one reason IGG is so powerful is because it drains the curse and IGG piles at the same time; that's one reeason why it gets weaker with other cursers present. If you can make the piles different (and here you can do so by just buying one or two copies of the new card without overpaying) it plays very differently.
That said, I'm not sure a curser on overpaying really makes sense in general. I suspect a more "boring" curser like:
"Action-Attack $5
Gain 1 coin token
All other players gain a curse"
Slogs will generally value coin tokens more in general (since they will probably have a harder time spiking to key price points, and have a lower expected return on +cards), so something like this might be reasonable. At the same time, moneyish or enginey decks would get more return from witch's +cards, so this would seem weaker than witch against decent trashing.
Edit: Obviously this would be an attack
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The overpay for giving out a curse would need to be pretty steep. You don't want games decided by early incomes spikes that allow one player to get value from overpayment when the opponents cannot. This problem is already seem with border villages and strong 5 cost cards like wharves or witches where border village +witch > witch > gold.
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The set may not even have a Curse-giving attack, or a junker at all. Cornucopia had two. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get one in Guilds.
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$5 - Action
Choose one: +1 Action, or gain a coin token.
Each other player may discard one coin token. Any player who does not gains a Curse.
This seems super weak. Imagine this card:
$5 - Action - Attack
Choose one: +1 Action, or gain a coin token.
Each other player gains a curse.
This is not a strong card, but your card is even weaker.
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The set may not even have a Curse-giving attack, or a junker at all. Cornucopia had two. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get one in Guilds.
I would! Every set has had at least one Curser, except Dark Ages which had the Looters instead. Not having a Curser would seem really strange to me.
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How about this:
Action-Attack $5
Gain 2 coin tokens
Each other player gains a curse
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When you gain this, each other player gains a curse and a coin token.
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$4 Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player gains a curse and takes 2 coin tokens.
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How about this:
Action-Attack $5
Gain 2 coin tokens
Each other player gains a curse
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When you gain this, each other player gains a curse and a coin token.
It's like Mountebank except you die
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Gaining a Curse and a coin token is way better than gaining a Curse and a Copper. Yup.
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The set may not even have a Curse-giving attack, or a junker at all. Cornucopia had two. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get one in Guilds.
I would! Every set has had at least one Curser, except Dark Ages which had the Looters instead. Not having a Curser would seem really strange to me.
Now I find this funny, since I would say that Cornucopia had no cursers, really. I assume LF is counting Followers (but it's a prize!) and Jester (which I wouldn't really call a curser, even though it *can* sometimes give curses).
How about this:
Action-Attack $5
Gain 2 coin tokens
Each other player gains a curse
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When you gain this, each other player gains a curse and a coin token.
Other than being the best card in the game, by a good stretch? I mean, compare to mountebank: Two tokens is significantly better than two coin-for-this-turn (well, clearly better; I think it's probably significant, particularly on a card like this), they can't moat it with a curse, and they gain a curse when you buy this. Now, to compensate, you don't give them coppers, and they get one coin token when you buy it. Yeah, the on-buy is good for you (until the curses run out) overall, and the no copper I just don't see as *nearly* worth it, largely because there's no curse-moating.$4 Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player gains a curse and takes 2 coin tokens.
This seems very interesting. I don't know about the particular execution (though maybe it's great), but it's very cool that, for instance, it's *generally* not going to be something you want to play after the curses are gone. Or at least there's a nice tension there.
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I think he's counting Young Witch.
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I think he's counting Young Witch.
Oh right, duh.
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I think he's counting Young Witch.
Yes, I was counting Young Witch and Jester as junkers.
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$4 Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player gains a curse and takes 2 coin tokens.
Nice idea, but this seems way weaker than Sea Hag. In general, giving everyone (including yourself) the same bonus is better for them than for you (especially true in a terminal action), unless the bonus has specific synergy with the rest of the card or with a particular deck (for instance, giving everyone Copper benefits sloggers but hurts engineers). Basically, why Council Room is worse than Smitty if you don't have discard attacks, unless you really need the Buy.
In this case, the bonus for the rest is +$2 without spending the action AND it can be saved for later if it happens to be timed wrong for them. Timing of the bonus is the only thing in favor of the player playing the card, but in this case, that's closer to a disadvantage.
Also, Sea Hag puts the Curse on top of the opponent's deck, so the attack on this card is weaker.
I would give them just 1 coin.
For the curse on-buy, I'd said this would be done just if overpaid (just to mantain the theme), but I bet we won't see another curse on-buy (especially since its been mentioned that the benefit of overpaying was going to be proportional to the overpaid amount, and giving out more than 1 curse on-buy seems terrible). I guess it could be something like "for each $3 you overpay, curse the others", so that multiple curses are really difficult to do, even impossible early in the game, and difficult later because you are going to be single-cursed a lot at the beginning.
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I think overpay-for-curses could work, potentially (though I tend to doubt we'll see it?)
Something like:
CARDNAME
Cost: $2+
+1 card, +$1
______________
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For every $2 you overpaid, each opponent gains a curse.
Thus at 4 it's like IGG, but terminal and you get a card, instead of treasure and can gain a copper. At $2, it's a card that would probably be nobody's favorite but also not the worst ever 2-cost. At 6 you get to give 2 curses and have a not-too-useful card. At 8.... well, etc. Probably this is a little above the power curve, but I am not entirely sure. And some variation ought to be do-able.
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At $8, it would be strongly preferable to a Province - but in games using this, the Curses will be gone long before anyone hits $8.
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Two ideas. I'm not experienced enough to accurately cost these thing so please be gentle on that account.
1. A card where you pay coin tokens to distribute curses. This particular one, like Sea Hag, does not benefit you at all.
cost:4
Assassin
You may discard a coin token. If you do, each other player gains a curse.
2. With the coin tokens floating around to ease purchases, maybe we'll see a 6-cost curser. Would this be too strong?
cost: 6
Master Warlock
+1 card
+1 action
Each other player gains a curse.
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Two ideas. I'm not experienced enough to accurately cost these thing so please be gentle on that account.
1. A card where you pay coin tokens to distribute curses. This particular one, like Sea Hag, does not benefit you at all.
cost:4
Assassin
You may discard a coin token. If you do, each other player gains a curse.
2. With the coin tokens floating around to ease purchases, maybe we'll see a 6-cost curser. Would this be too strong?
cost: 6
Master Warlock
+1 card
+1 action
Each other player gains a curse.
The first one wouldn't work very well, because there probably won't be any cards that generate coin tokens in whatever game you are playing - in general, for a card to use something like this, it needs to have some way to ensure that it is in the game. Beyond that, it just doesn't seem like a very fun card (and is also a lot weaker than sea hag even if you have coin tokens).
The second one's biggest problem is that it's just the same as familiar, just with a different cost.
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I like the non-terminal cheap Curser. And Assassin seems like a perfect name.
Assassin $4
+1 Action
Choose one: Gain a coin token, or discard all your coin tokens and each other player gains a Curse per token discarded this way.
This seems like its weak but usable when Curses are out, and the fact that is non-Terminal is not as strong when a Curser is present.
Variant:
Assassin $4
+1 Action
+$1
Discard any number of coin tokens. Each other player gains a Curse per token discarded this way.
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When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpay, gain a coin token.
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1. A card where you pay coin tokens to distribute curses. This particular one, like Sea Hag, does not benefit you at all.
cost:4
Assassin
You may discard a coin token. If you do, each other player gains a curse.
This is the kind of effect I was thinking, probably with some kind of vanilla bonus and an on-buy effect to give you coin tokens. Maybe costing $3 and giving 1 coin token per coin you overpay for it? So you can buy it for $3 if you have another source of coin tokens, but otherwise need to overpay to get use out of it.
EDIT: Yeah, pretty much just what soulnet posted...
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Assassin $4
+1 Action
Choose one: Gain a coin token, or discard all your coin tokens and each other player gains a Curse per token discarded this way.
I think that any card that let's you give out more than one curse at a time without help like TR/KC is going to be too powerful. But this:
Assassin $4
+1 Action
Choose one: Gain a coin token, or discard a coin token and each other player gains a Curse.
Would be more reasonable I think. Or even,
Assassin $4 (or $5?)
+1 Action
+1 coin token
You may discard a coin token. If you do, each other player gains a Curse.
One problem with these, though, is that they make the generic coin-token-gainer, which there has to be somewhere, also the curser of the set.
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One problem with these, though, is that they make the generic coin-token-gainer, which there has to be somewhere, also the curser of the set.
I guess I think of Baker as the generic coin-token-gainer. It doesn't get much more generic that that. If it weren't for the setup piece, it would be a bit of a disappointment as a card for the 8th expansion.
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2. With the coin tokens floating around to ease purchases, maybe we'll see a 6-cost curser. Would this be too strong?
cost: 6
Master Warlock
+1 card
+1 action
Each other player gains a curse.
The second one's biggest problem is that it's just the same as familiar, just with a different cost.
Yeah, realized that later. Even so, the guess stands, that coin tokens might be enabling a 6-cost powerful curser.
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Except there's no 6-cost card in the set.
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Assassin $4
+1 Action
Choose one: Gain a coin token, or discard all your coin tokens and each other player gains a Curse per token discarded this way.
I think that any card that let's you give out more than one curse at a time without help like TR/KC is going to be too powerful. But this:
This was my first reaction, too. But then I thought about it some more, and well... the only way you give multiple curses is that you DIDN'T give curses earlier. So actually, with this card, you are ALWAYS behind in giving curses compared to where you'd be with something like sea hag. That, plus the fact that it isn't top-decked, probably compensates the minimal usefulness of being able to get and use tokens later on, and would make it worse than sea hag if it were terminal. Of course, it ISN'T terminal, BUT if you take a look at it further, you see that either you give them the curses much later than you would with a normal curse-giver (and later cursing, generally, is weaker), or you're giving them much much less efficiently (if you always give a curse when you can, you average half-a-curse per play, which is not strong; playing for 5 curses at once makes it 5/6 efficient, all 10 makes it 10/11 efficient, which ain't bad, but you are giving them pretty late). So I don't know, this might actually be balanced as is. The 'fix' of forcing it to be half-efficient probably just makes it way too weak for $4. Maybe at $2. Heh, that's scary, a $2 curser.
2. With the coin tokens floating around to ease purchases, maybe we'll see a 6-cost curser. Would this be too strong?
cost: 6
Master Warlock
+1 card
+1 action
Each other player gains a curse.
The second one's biggest problem is that it's just the same as familiar, just with a different cost.
Yeah, realized that later. Even so, the guess stands, that coin tokens might be enabling a 6-cost powerful curser.
But coin tokens shouldn't enable anything that doesn't directly have some text concerning coin tokens, because there are going to be, what, like five or six cards out of 200+ which will be coin-token-related, which just means that most games you aren't going to have both.
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$4 Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player gains a curse and takes 2 coin tokens.
I like the idea of giving other players coin tokens as a way to weaken a card.
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$4 Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player gains a curse and takes 2 coin tokens.
I like the idea of giving other players coin tokens as a way to weaken a card.
Very neat idea, it introduces some more tactics. Do I want to play the card in the endgame? The opponent won't draw the curse, so it's basically -1 VP, +2$. Interesting decision...
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Maybe the Curser and the Victory card are the same thing.
Wasteland
Victory - $4+
Worth 1 VP per Curse you have.
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When you buy this, you can overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, each other player gains a Curse.
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Maybe the Curser and the Victory card are the same thing.
Wasteland
Victory - $4+
Worth 1 VP per Curse you have.
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When you buy this, you can overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, each other player gains a Curse.
Imagine pulling that from the Black Market with $14 to spend.
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Maybe the Curser and the Victory card are the same thing.
Wasteland
Victory - $4+
Worth 1 VP per Curse you have.
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When you buy this, you can overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, each other player gains a Curse.
Imagine pulling that from the Black Market with $14 to spend.
Then I'll laugh when I pull out the Watchtower I got from Black Market. You just spent $14 on a Confusion!
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Then I'll laugh when I pull out the Watchtower Trader I got from Black Market.
An $8 buy giving out 4 curses immediately is really quite a lot better than a Province. It's 2VP less, but a net difference of 5 junk cards.
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Curser Thingy
Cost $4+
Get a coin token, each other player gains a curse
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When you buy this, you may overpay by $1. If you do, put this on top of deck.
So the idea is that it's like Nomad Camp, except instead of forced topdecking it's chooseable topdecking. The actual effect + cost can be adjusted.
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Then I'll laugh when I pull out the Watchtower Trader I got from Black Market.
An $8 buy giving out 4 curses immediately is really quite a lot better than a Province. It's 2VP less, but a net difference of 5 junk cards.
It's great until they start gaining their own Wastelands and withholding the precious curses from you.
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Curser Thingy
Cost $4+
Get a coin token, each other player gains a curse
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When you buy this, you may overpay by $1. If you do, put this on top of deck.
So the idea is that it's like Nomad Camp, except instead of forced topdecking it's chooseable topdecking. The actual effect + cost can be adjusted.
Even without the topdecking, its really strong for $4, but possibly weak for $5. The on-play effect alone is probably weaker than Witch, but not always, and not by a lot. And Witch is pretty darn good.
$5 w/o topdecking seems correct, with optional topdecking can be fine also, although it will be much swingier (opening Silver/Silver or equivalent gives pretty good odds at $5 on T3/T4, but $6 is rare but possible, and would give a lot of advantage, especially in T3 for 1st player, that can get the Curse in before the 2nd shuffle).
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I think that would be better than Sea Hag, which is usually a must-buy at $4. Sea Hag topdecks their curse (and can frustratingly skip one of their good cards), which speeds up the cursing, but then again getting it on top of your deck if you overpay speeds it up too, possibly putting a Curse into their first reshuffle in a similar way to Sea Hag. (It would make 5/2 much better than 2/5). The coin token also should be a big deal in a curse slog, where your typical turn is otherwise "buy Silver" or "give Curse, buy nothing". Save up those tokens and buy a Gold while the Cursing is still going on.
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How about combining the two themes of the set:
Curser Guy $5+
Each other player gains a curse.
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You may overpay this. If you do, gain a coin token for each $1 you overpaid.
Hmmm, no, seems too strong for $4, too weak for $5.
Better (?) idea:
Curse the Poor $4
Gain a coin token.
Each other play may discard a coin token. If they don't, they gain a Curse.
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How about combining the two themes of the set:
Curser Guy $5+
Each other player gains a curse.
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You may overpay this. If you do, gain a coin token for each $1 you overpaid.
Hmmm, no, seems too strong for $4, too weak for $5.
Not too strong for $4. At $4, it would be weaker than Sea Hag.
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Curse the Poor $4
Gain a coin token.
Each other play may discard a coin token. If they don't, they gain a Curse.
This one may be ok, definitely weak for $5, so $4 is correct. However, I hope this is not the card in Guilds, because it looks too similar to Mountebank, it would feel less innovative.
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How about a "name a card" curser?
Picky Witch $4
Name a card in the Supply that costs less than $5 and is not an Action card. Each other player may reveal the named card from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains a curse.
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You may overpay this by exactly $1. If you do, each other player gains a curse and sets it aside. Set aside curses are discarded when any player plays Picky Witch.
The overpay curse mechanic also carefully gets rid of the curse before first reshuffle problem of IGG.
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How about a "name a card" curser?
Picky Witch $4
Name a card in the Supply that costs less than $5 and is not an Action card. Each other player may reveal the named card from his hand. If he doesn't, he gains a curse.
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You may overpay this by exactly $1. If you do, each other player gains a curse and sets it aside. Set aside curses are discarded when any player plays Picky Witch.
The overpay curse mechanic also carefully gets rid of the curse before first reshuffle problem of IGG.
It should be the "UW" from the random set generator, and be called Ugly Witch.
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How about:
Curser's Guild 5$
Each other player gains a curse.
If a curse was gained this way, gain 2 coin tokens.
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How about:
Curser's Guild 5$
Each other player gains a curse.
If a curse was gained this way, gain 2 coin tokens.
I don't think it will be printed, because it smacks too much of mountebank. I also think it will be stronger than mountebank, which is hands down one of the top 5 cards in the game, so...
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Halfwit(ch)
Action - $4
Each player takes a coin token
Each other player may pay 2 coin tokens. If he doesn't, he gains a curse
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Halfwit(ch)
Action - $4
Each player takes a coin token
Each other player may pay 2 coin tokens. If he doesn't, he gains a curse
This is too weak. A lot weaker than Sea Hag, to the point that I would say this one is strictly worse.
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But contrary to Sea Hag this card still does something for you, even when curses are gone.
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...the first $3 curser?
But contrary to Sea Hag this card still does something for you, even when curses are gone.
but it helps your opponents too, usually about the same amount as it helps you.
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...the first $3 curser?
But contrary to Sea Hag this card still does something for you, even when curses are gone.
but it helps your opponents too, usually about the same amount as it helps you.
It helps them more, because they didn't have to play a card to get a free coin token.
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A good comparison is duchess. Everyone can benefit from the friendly spy, but Duchess also gives $2 to the person who played it, so s/he on average comes out slightly ahead (assuming he had a free action to spend). Here, once the curses run out your opponents get exactly the same benefit as you, and doesn't need to spend an action.
I wouldn't be completely surprised to see a card that gives out coin tokens to your opponents as well, but it would need to be something akin to Vault, Governor or Council Room, where you benefit more than they do.
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You know what? I'm calling it now. No Curse-giver in Guilds.
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You know what? I'm calling it now. No Curse-giver in Guilds.
:O
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You know what? I'm calling it now. No Curse-giver in Guilds.
No way. There was no curser in Dark Ages, and I can't possibly see two straight expansions without one.
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that's only because of ruins! there was cultist and marauder!
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I bet we'll see a trashing Attack that gains coin tokens and a overpay Spy attack. That's it.
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I've been thinking, we assumed SO was Sojourner renamed to Journeyman at some point. But really, they are very different concepts (a traveler versus someone who is basically a step above an apprentice).
What if the GU was the card that became Journeyman (because it was originally something like "Guildmaster" and was renamed for the same reason "Hinterland" became "Farmland" in Hinterlands).
That would leave SO as "Sorceress" or something of that sort, which seems an appropriate name for a curser.
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Halfwit(ch)
Action - $4
Each player takes a coin token
Each other player may pay 2 coin tokens. If he doesn't, he gains a curse
This is too weak. A lot weaker than Sea Hag, to the point that I would say this one is strictly worse.
The idea is, while the curses are still around, it's pretty much either "+$1, or gain a curse", but the choice comes down to the opponent. In games with no other coin token gainers, if the player saves to coin token to block the curse next time, the attacker is basically getting free money and it isn't a wash. I could make it a 2 coin token wash, and moating costs 3 maybe.
Another fun quirk is that it creates a sort of deadlock if both players go for it, although maybe that's a bit too much FTA.
I should probably add some sort of Vanilla effect.
One thing I hope will be in the expansion is some strong card that gives every other player a coin token, because now there's a way to gain money when it isn't your turn. It probably won't be in here, but a when gain/when trash coin token gainer would also fill a void (the only other alternative is treasure to hand).
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Maybe a more interesting (and thematic) junker would punish players who save up too many coin tokens, while letting off those with none:
Vandal $5
+2 coin tokens
+1 buy
Each opponent with 3 or more coin tokens chooses one of the following: returns coin tokens until he has no more than 2; or gains a copper for each of his coin tokens above 2, and puts the gained coppers on top of his deck.
Also has a nice interaction with Doctor, and makes Baker all about how much you can get in a single turn.
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Well, the problem with that is that there's an obvious way to avoid it - simply spend all your coin tokens to be below 2 spares at all times.
And it's a way that's not only obvious, it seems like it's straightforward and typically pretty good - you want to use your coin tokens fast anyway. So it decreases the number of viable strategies instead of increasing them, since people just won't pick strategies that rely on saving up coin tokens (which are going to be rare anyway).
If you want the 'remove other people's tokens' attack to work, the card also has to itself include a reason to save up large numbers of tokens.
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Actually, the straightforward "everyone must spend a coin or gain a curse" would be an entirely reasonable mechanism, just underpowered. All current cursers cost at least $4; maybe Guilds has a $3 curser?
The more extreme version would be:
Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token or gain a curse.
That might produce an interesting arms race mechanic in which nobody wanted to have fewer coin tokens than the other players.
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Actually, the straightforward "everyone must spend a coin or gain a curse" would be an entirely reasonable mechanism, just underpowered. All current cursers cost at least $4; maybe Guilds has a $3 curser?
The more extreme version would be:
Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token or gain a curse.
That might produce an interesting arms race mechanic in which nobody wanted to have fewer coin tokens than the other players.
This wouldn't really work as it has no way of giving coin tokens. It's a dead card on a random board with no cards that give coin tokens.
Even if this card gave coin tokens, I'm not sure it would work. I mean, adding +1 coin token to it would basically amount to "each other player gains a curse," unless they bought it in a previous turn and saved their tokens for defense. But that wouldn't make a lot of sense. There could be an on-buy effect of overpaying for coin tokens, so that you can pay more to "charge it up." That seems like an odd way of attacking, though.
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This wouldn't really work as it has no way of giving coin tokens. It's a dead card on a random board with no cards that give coin tokens.
Even if this card gave coin tokens, I'm not sure it would work. I mean, adding +1 coin token to it would basically amount to "each other player gains a curse," unless they bought it in a previous turn and saved their tokens for defense. But that wouldn't make a lot of sense. There could be an on-buy effect of overpaying for coin tokens, so that you can pay more to "charge it up." That seems like an odd way of attacking, though.
Hmm. True. It'll be interesting to see what the other coin cards are, in fact, given each apparently works in isolation.
Here's a doubly-tweaked version:
Bloated Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token, or discard a treasure, or gain a curse.
Then gain two coin tokens.
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Donald strongly implied in the previews that Butcher is the only card that lets you do anything with your coin tokens during the action phase.
Edit: "Strongly implied," hell. This is flat-out saying it.
Butcher gives you a special use for coin tokens. That's not a theme of the set, that's just Butcher.
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This wouldn't really work as it has no way of giving coin tokens. It's a dead card on a random board with no cards that give coin tokens.
Even if this card gave coin tokens, I'm not sure it would work. I mean, adding +1 coin token to it would basically amount to "each other player gains a curse," unless they bought it in a previous turn and saved their tokens for defense. But that wouldn't make a lot of sense. There could be an on-buy effect of overpaying for coin tokens, so that you can pay more to "charge it up." That seems like an odd way of attacking, though.
Hmm. True. It'll be interesting to see what the other coin cards are, in fact, given each apparently works in isolation.
Here's a doubly-tweaked version:
Bloated Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token, or discard a treasure, or gain a curse.
Then gain two coin tokens.
Still suffers from the curse (heh) of being really slow. You have to buy it. Then play it for coin tokens. Then play it again to give (possible) curses. This would only be feasible in an engine, and it seems by that time you've already passed the initial phase of curses being really dangerous.
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This wouldn't really work as it has no way of giving coin tokens. It's a dead card on a random board with no cards that give coin tokens.
Even if this card gave coin tokens, I'm not sure it would work. I mean, adding +1 coin token to it would basically amount to "each other player gains a curse," unless they bought it in a previous turn and saved their tokens for defense. But that wouldn't make a lot of sense. There could be an on-buy effect of overpaying for coin tokens, so that you can pay more to "charge it up." That seems like an odd way of attacking, though.
Hmm. True. It'll be interesting to see what the other coin cards are, in fact, given each apparently works in isolation.
Here's a doubly-tweaked version:
Bloated Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token, or discard a treasure, or gain a curse.
Then gain two coin tokens.
Still suffers from the curse (heh) of being really slow. You have to buy it. Then play it for coin tokens. Then play it again to give (possible) curses. This would only be feasible in an engine, and it seems by that time you've already passed the initial phase of curses being really dangerous.
Actually I would guess it's probably overpowered. You get 2 coin tokens, which is probably strong enough to be very powerful (I would guess too powerful) at $3. That you can possibly do anything else with it pushes it over, even if you won't do that very often.
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This wouldn't really work as it has no way of giving coin tokens. It's a dead card on a random board with no cards that give coin tokens.
Even if this card gave coin tokens, I'm not sure it would work. I mean, adding +1 coin token to it would basically amount to "each other player gains a curse," unless they bought it in a previous turn and saved their tokens for defense. But that wouldn't make a lot of sense. There could be an on-buy effect of overpaying for coin tokens, so that you can pay more to "charge it up." That seems like an odd way of attacking, though.
Hmm. True. It'll be interesting to see what the other coin cards are, in fact, given each apparently works in isolation.
Here's a doubly-tweaked version:
Bloated Plutocrat
You may discard coin tokens.
For each coin token you discard, every other player must discard a coin token, or discard a treasure, or gain a curse.
Then gain two coin tokens.
Still suffers from the curse (heh) of being really slow. You have to buy it. Then play it for coin tokens. Then play it again to give (possible) curses. This would only be feasible in an engine, and it seems by that time you've already passed the initial phase of curses being really dangerous.
Actually I would guess it's probably overpowered. You get 2 coin tokens, which is probably strong enough to be very powerful (I would guess too powerful) at $3. That you can possibly do anything else with it pushes it over, even if you won't do that very often.
I was assuming it wouldn't be $3, but I guess that was somewhere in the previous messages that I didn't read all of :/
.. or maybe in that message to which I first responded
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I was assuming it wouldn't be $3, but I guess that was somewhere in the previous messages that I didn't read all of :/
To be clear, I was suggesting the card could be made either cheaper or more powerful. Not both!
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So everyone in this thread was wrong :/
I'm a bit disappointed that Soothsayer doesn't give each other player a Coin token instead of repeating the same non attack interaction for a 3rd time.
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I've been thinking, we assumed SO was Sojourner renamed to Journeyman at some point. But really, they are very different concepts (a traveler versus someone who is basically a step above an apprentice).
What if the GU was the card that became Journeyman (because it was originally something like "Guildmaster" and was renamed for the same reason "Hinterland" became "Farmland" in Hinterlands).
That would leave SO as "Sorceress" or something of that sort, which seems an appropriate name for a curser.
Just a Rube pretty much nailed it.