Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: thirtyseven on March 07, 2013, 10:04:22 am
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This is inspired by the recent comments in the Qvist $4 rankings thread. If you had Sea Hag and either Young Witch or Marauder on the board, what would make you (if ever) buy YW over Hag, or Marauder over Hag? Or, especially in the case of Marauder which deals out Ruins instead of Curses, is there a case to buy both? What are the best buying strategies, or does that depend too much on the board? I feel like I would buy Sea Hag over Young Witch except if there's Tunnel on the board, and I don't think I would ever buy Marauder over the other two (I haven't played DA yet though).
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I would think (and I can't think of a time this ever came up in a game I played) that Marauder does pretty well against Sea Hag in a vacuum. After all, it gives you a one-shot Gold every shuffle and you really want that when your deck is slowed down to a crawl.
One advantage that YW has over Hag is the cycling. I think I would normally prefer Hag, but after the Curses are already gone, the YW is still useful to you. If the bane card is not very strong, I may even just go with the YW to begin with. Tough call.
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whether sea hag is better than marauder or not on a given board seems to depend on two things:
1. can your opponent make use of the ruins?
2. how important is early economy (are there good buys at 2 and 3?)
so, for easy examples, if menagerie and crossroads are on the board, you should go sea hag. if the board has no 3-cost actions, laboratory, and forge, then you should go marauder. in between, i don't know, but i would be tempted toward marauder, possibly mistakenly (i don't know dark ages cards that well because they are not on isotropic).
i typically buy sea hag over young witch. getting moated early is really bad for the curse giver. i even think moat should be bought more often in 2p than it is. but with a bane that's awful (herbalist, embargo) or that makes me indifferent between YW and sea hag (moat, watchtower) i'll go YW.
YW vs. marauder - i think marauder is just going to be better. if you compare the following hypothetical cards:
ruined bandit camp - gain a spoils
ruined warehouse - draw two, discard two
which would you prefer? I think I'd prefer the ruined bandit camp. So if I say the debate between "ruins aren't as bad as curses" and "getting moated is unfortunate" is close to a tie, I think I prefer marauder. Again I would flip-flop with a sufficiently awful bane.
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Deck are going to be pretty bad if both ruins and curses are in play. Two piles are possibly going to run out quickly. This suggests that -1 point from each curse is going to be a deciding factor.
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Deck are going to be pretty bad if both ruins and curses are in play. Two piles are possibly going to run out quickly. This suggests that -1 point from each curse is going to be a deciding factor.
Spoils should help you spike Duchies more often, but is that enough to offset -1vp per Curse?
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Hag or YW depends on the board, but I would stay with one of them and then pick up Marauder after.
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Hag or YW depends on the board, but I would stay with one of them and then pick up Marauder after.
Can you be more specific and say what cards would make it an easier decision to go for either YW or SH?
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Hag or YW depends on the board, but I would stay with one of them and then pick up Marauder after.
Can you be more specific and say what cards would make it an easier decision to go for either YW or SH?
I basically after with thoughts above. How strong is the bane? How valuable is sifting?
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A YW/Silver opening is far more likely to get to $5 on the first reshuffle than either Sea Hag or Marauder. If my opponent doesn't pick up a Bane and I need $5 right away, I'd pick YW, otherwise Sea Hag.
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Unless there's a good bane, I definitely go YW > Sea Hag as an opener. Hopefully then I can pick up either a silver / marauder, or Marauder / $5 card. Now, if the bane is likely to be bought, of course Sea Hag > YW.
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I think mid level trashing pushes you more in the direction of Marauder. I would call mid level trashing something like Upgrade, Forager, Bishop. If that is present, you will likely trash most the Cruses/Ruins, so the -1 VP doesn't mater.
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I think we're forgetting that Sea Hag gains Curses to the top of the deck, while Marauder gains Ruins to the discard. Given that, Sea Hag seems like a pretty clear pick over Marauder.
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Yeah, because of the 2 piles drain from ruins and curses, the game is most likely going to 3-pile if both players go for the junkers. If the game is going to 3-pile, a curse in your opponents deck is going to go a lot further than the ruins, which can be marginally helpful sometimes. It depends on the board. If there was Upgrade or Junk Dealer, I might pick up Marauder just to get to the trashing cards faster, however I think I'd still open Sea Hag, due to the top-decking of curses, as well, its a guaranteed hit, whereas Young Witch can potentially be baned.
So basically,
strong/mid trashing: I'd open sea hag and pick up a maurader later, (or if 5/2 and one of the trashers is 5 cost, I'd pick up that instead)
little to no trashing: sea hag, young witch and mostly go for money, maybe pick up a marauder down the road to help the piles drain.
It also depends on how many people are playing. I played a 5 player game with Marauder and Witch that ended on curses/ruins/estates. It was pretty brutal, since you could get 4 junk cards in your deck for every card you bought, until the piles drained, but then you're looking at 1/3 of your deck being worthless.. pretty hard to build off of!