Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Rabid on February 19, 2013, 04:08:22 pm
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Courtyard, Fairgrounds, Fishing Village, Great Hall, Loan, Mandarin, Pearl Diver, Peddler, Pirate Ship, Trader, Woodcutter, and Worker's Village.
P1 Veto's Loan
As second player, against a player of the same level, what would you veto and why?
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I would veto Worker's Village.
If I veto Peddler, it looks like a boring set-up (I'm putting about as much thought into this as I would a real veto vote), and if I don't veto Worker's Village, that will become a key card in a race for buys. A race to Peddler would be pretty uninteresting, but if one of us is going Peddler and the other trying something else, that could be interesting. So vetoing WV makes the game less prone to luck and more interesting anyway.
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Peddler. WV/Peddler is nasty, and P2 is at a big disadvantage. Adding FV and GH to the mix doesn't help, and Mandarin makes it easier to line up multiple actions. Courtyard for draw.
I'd be tempted to open FV/WV here, or WV/CY, if all eleven were on the board. Peddler is too big to ignore.
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You would have to veto either WV or Peddler here because winning the split is dependent completely on luck.
Personally I would veto Peddler.
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Personally Trader is one of my favorite cards and I always overuse it, but I'd still veto Pirate Ship simply because its a good Trader counter...
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I'd veto Pirate Ship because if he vetoes Loan it makes me think he's trying to feed off of my lack of trashing. Also I hate that card.
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I would probably veto Worker's Village. That and Peddler is just nasty for player 2 as others have already stated. Still, having Peddler, a village and a +buy (even a weak one with Woodcutter) leaves the Peddler route open. It also opens the board up for mistakes to try and exploit tactically along the way making the game more fun, even if I lose.
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As one who likes to keep the board as interesting as possible, the only possible answer is Pearl Diver (GH for honorable mention)
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I should probably add that the opponent vetoing Loan does open the way a bit more for a Treasure-oriented strategy with Courtyard and Trader. However, there isn't any single veto that would make this strategy a winner at first glance. If you veto Worker's Village or Peddler, your opponent can play an engine and still have an entire stack of Fairgrounds with which to try to play catch-up. If you veto Fairgrounds, your opponent might just monopolize WV + Peddler and beat you out with just Provinces and Duchies.
There's also Pirate Ship to worry about, though without Loan trashing, I suspect that Trader should be able to replenish the deck with Silver faster than Pirate Ship can take it away, unless the opponent goes very heavy on the Pirate Ships.
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Pirate Ship. It is the card that I would least likely buy in this kingdom and there is no Lighthouse.
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Great Hall. You didn't see that coming, did you? ;)
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Workers village. ...not for the reasons you think. I veto random and so I checked a random number generator and it told me to veto the 6th option. True story.
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Pirate Ship because I HATE it.
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I don't think it really matters, I'm much better than other players of equal skill to me.
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What?
Probably Fairgrounds. It's a card I'm not good at using.
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Maybe some stats would be nice for this? What cards favor P1 the most?
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Peddle or Worker's Village for their interaction. Peddler over WV because FV is there making WV less likely to be bought anyway.
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Veto random! All the time, all the way!
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I'm amused by the number of people electing to veto Pirate Ship. If your opponent goes after Pirate Ship while WV/FV/Peddler is on the board, you thank him/her for clearing out your Copper for you, and use the cash from Peddler and FV since you'll be cycling your deck every turn.
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Definitely Fairgrounds. It makes it too obvious of an engine board, and engine only board favors P1 too much. Having an option of BM or Engine at least allows you as P2 to try something.
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Leaving worker's village and peddler is suicidal for player 2. Fishing village plus woodcutter is a poor man's wv, so peddler is the better veto. I don't see any other perspective.
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I don't see how it can't be peddler or wv. But vetoing wv still
gives a viable peddler play: woodcutter and fv and great halls and pearl divers.
However, I think you are getting at a trick question.
If P1 was going to go peddler, why would he veto loan? Loan/wv is a great open to go into peddlers and pretty dominant for p1.
So the question is "why did P1 veto loan?"
Maybe P1 is a weak engine player? Also doesn't make sense. Then he should veto Fairgrounds.
So I'm at a loss.
P1 should have veto'd something useless like great hall. Or he should use veto'd fairgrounds - to Majorca shorter game to increase his relative advantage.
I don't understand the Loan choice at all.
Given I don't, I would go with the safe choice and kill Peddler.
Ed
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I'm amused by the number of people electing to veto Pirate Ship. If your opponent goes after Pirate Ship while WV/FV/Peddler is on the board, you thank him/her for clearing out your Copper for you, and use the cash from Peddler and FV since you'll be cycling your deck every turn.
Well, vetoing doesn't have to be a strategic decision. Some people just don't like pirate ship.
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I'm amused by the number of people electing to veto Pirate Ship. If your opponent goes after Pirate Ship while WV/FV/Peddler is on the board, you thank him/her for clearing out your Copper for you, and use the cash from Peddler and FV since you'll be cycling your deck every turn.
Yeah, and Mandarin and Woodcutter give +coin too. I would veto Peddler b/c I suck at that card.
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I would veto Scout.
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It depends on the player I was against for me.
If I felt I was going against a much stronger player, I'd probably veto Fairgrounds.
Against a weaker player I would go FV of WV as they seem to play themself
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It depends on the player I was against for me.
If I felt I was going against a much stronger player, I'd probably veto Fairgrounds.
Against a weaker player I would go FV of WV as they seem to play themself
Rabid specified a player of equal rank to you, though.
Edit: Maybe it depends on mean skill vs. certainty?
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Pirate Ship because I HATE it.
My initial reaction too, but Kirian's analysis and those who point the finger to the coin provided by Peddler/FV/Woodcutter if someone goes Pirate Ship have a good point.
I'd likely veto Peddler and think hard about going for Fairgrounds here.
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It depends on the player I was against for me.
If I felt I was going against a much stronger player, I'd probably veto Fairgrounds.
Against a weaker player I would go FV of WV as they seem to play themself
Rabid specified a player of equal rank to you, though.
Edit: Maybe it depends on mean skill vs. certainty?
I pretty much only play offline nowadays, so i have to go by gut feeling.
Plus if you are not at the top of the leaderboard I dont think equal rank is a brilliant guide to skill level, a lot of it is dependant on who you play and how many games. I got to level 18 or so, and I only played a couple of people many times.
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Thanks for voting everyone.
I hope people learnt a little about veto strategy.
Peddler was my pick in the game this was based on against TheSadPanda.
As several people mentioned on this sort of board I find Peddler to have a large first player advantage.
I didn't even think about Pirate Ship, in 2p it is so rarely relevant I don't really notice it any more. But I guess most of the votes for it are a dislike of the card rather than a 2nd player disadvantage.
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I would have vetoed random because I didn't see either Tournament or Black Market in the set.
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Thanks for voting everyone.
I hope people learnt a little about veto strategy.
Peddler was my pick in the game this was based on against TheSadPanda.
As several people mentioned on this sort of board I find Peddler to have a large first player advantage.
I didn't even think about Pirate Ship, in 2p it is so rarely relevant I don't really notice it any more. But I guess most of the votes for it are a dislike of the card rather than a 2nd player disadvantage.
I didn't read the post carefully enough to notice that I'm p2.
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Peddler. A first player card.
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Wheres the second one of these?
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On its way, I'll try to make them about once a week.
But need to wait for an interesting game.
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On its way, I'll try to make them about once a week.
But need to wait for an interesting game.
I'll play you a set on Iso anytime if you need to find an interesting game!
Warrior
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I'd veto Woodcutter, because I don't like veto mode so I always just veto the card I think least likely to be relevant to the game. Since WV exists, people aren't going to buy Woodcutter because they are desperate for +buy. If they want $2, they'll buy Silver. So, woodcutter.
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(Worker's Village)
Average experience before I set Veto Mode to "no"
<stupid face meme>Always vetoes attack cards
"Why do I keep losing to Smithy+BM?"