Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: werothegreat on December 28, 2012, 11:22:47 pm
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I Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader, gain a Silver. I then have +1 Card, +1 Action from Ironworks, right?
I keep forgetting what the actual answer to this is. Can we have it stickied somewhere?
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I Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader, gain a Silver. I then have +1 Card, +1 Action from Ironworks, right?
I keep forgetting what the actual answer to this is. Can we have it stickied somewhere?
iirc, you get no bonus from the ironworks.
The only thing I'm sure of, though, is that a blue dog pops out and devours your mind.
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I Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader, gain a Silver. I then have +1 Card, +1 Action from Ironworks, right?
I keep forgetting what the actual answer to this is. Can we have it stickied somewhere?
You get no bonus from ironworks; Donald X decided that when deciding bonuses, Ironworks refers to the card you gained from playing it, and if you don't gain the Great Hall, you get no bonus from it. (BTW, same is true is if you use Ironworks when Possessed.)
This is mentioned in the Other Rules Clarification section of the wiki article http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Ironworks .
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I Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader, gain a Silver. I then have +1 Card, +1 Action from Ironworks, right?
I keep forgetting what the actual answer to this is. Can we have it stickied somewhere?
You do not get any bonus from Ironworks. The same is true if you Ironworks a card while being Possessed. "Would gain" kicks in, preventing the gaining, so in the end Ironworks did not gain you a card, so there is no "it" for "if it was" to refer to.
The original rules quote from Donald came from here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/716619/ironworks-and-trader/page/2 (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/716619/ironworks-and-trader/page/2)
If I play an Ironworks and choose to gain, say, a Great Hall, then I reveal a Trader from my hand and gain a Silver instead, which one of the following happens?
A. I get +1 Card/+1 Action from Ironworks.
B. I get +$1 from Ironworks.
C. I get no bonus from Ironworks.
I have to go with C. [actually I went with A, sry]
The whole question is what "it" refers to. For guidance let us look to Remodel and Upgrade. Remodel says "the trashed card." Upgrade says "it." But they both mean the same thing, and should work the same. If there were a card that stopped a card from being trashed, then Remodel would fail to gain you a card in that situation, and so Upgrade's "Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it" should also fail there.
Ironworks seems the same. To me, "Gain a card costing up to $4" is really two steps, choosing a card and then gaining it; but that "it" must be shorthand for "the gained card," and if you didn't gain the card then you don't get anything.
And of course you get nothing for Trader's Silver, which Ironworks knows nothing about. Ironworks does not give you bonuses for cards you get other than via its ability, and Trader just nukes the original gain and adds a fresh "gain a Silver" (which comes from the supply and goes to your discard pile, regardless of what was going on with the card no longer being gained).
Edit: Okay I've changed my mind already, re-reading Upgrade. Anyone reading Upgrade is going to think that "it" means "the card" rather than somehow implying that the card was trashed. Upgrade and Remodel would work differently and there's no fixing that.
Ironworks says "Gain a card costing up to $4. If it..." "It" must mean "the card you picked."
I'm going with A, see if you can talk me out of it.
Edit: Okay I'm feeling happier about A already and you don't have to try to talk me out of it. It's too bad Upgrade and Remodel don't match but what can you do, it's nice to have shorter card wordings and "it" is one trap you fall into there. When I read Ironworks the "it" to me means "the card" without any implicit "if you do" on that gaining.
Edit: As you will see in a later post, in the end I went with C!
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I Ironworks a Great Hall, reveal Trader, gain a Silver. I then have +1 Card, +1 Action from Ironworks, right?
I keep forgetting what the actual answer to this is. Can we have it stickied somewhere?
iirc, you get no bonus from the ironworks.
The only thing I'm sure of, though, is that a blue dog pops out and devours your mind.
Indeed it does. Then it demands concessions before joining party-line votes in the Great Hall.
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That's why we have the wiki because I keep forgetting such things too:
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ironworks
If you do not actually gain the card you chose, such as because of Trader or Possession, you get no bonus.