Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: Lashof on December 26, 2012, 10:38:38 am
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Simple question: Can Smugglers gain a Spoils (assuming an opponent gained one on the previous turn).
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No. Spoils are not in the supply.
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Smugglers doesn't actually say you have to gain it from the supply...
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Then you could argue that spoils don't cost 'up to six' since they cost 0*, not just 0.
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I'm too lazy to find the specific rules quote from the official rules, but here's a quote from the wiki http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Supply
When you must choose a card to buy or gain, you MUST choose a card in the Supply. The exceptions are cards which direct you to buy or gain from elsewhere
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http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Smugglers
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Smugglers doesn't actually say you have to gain it from the supply...
Whenever anything says "gain", it means "gain from supply", unless it explicitly says otherwise.
I think in the FAQ's for all the cards that say "gain something..." without specifying from where, the FAQ clarifies that it has to come from the supply.
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Smugglers doesn't actually say you have to gain it from the supply...
Whenever anything says "gain", it means "gain from supply", unless it explicitly says otherwise.
I think in the FAQ's for all the cards that say "gain something..." without specifying from where, the FAQ clarifies that it has to come from the supply.
I feel like someone pointed out somewhere that I missed one, but yes, all gains are from the supply unless otherwise specified. Smugglers cannot gain Spoils, since Spoils is never in the supply.
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Unless there happens to be a card that says on it "When you gain this, gain a Spoils." Because... well... it could happen. Of course you would need to gain that card via Smugglers and THEN you would gain Spoils. Until then, no.
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Unless there happens to be a card that says on it "When you gain this, gain a Spoils." Because... well... it could happen. Of course you would need to gain that card via Smugglers and THEN you would gain Spoils. Until then, no.
1) You mean "When you gain this, gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile."
2) Then you're not smuggling a Spoils; you're smuggling Card X and gaining a Spoils in the normal way.
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I feel like someone pointed out somewhere that I missed one, but yes, all gains are from the supply unless otherwise specified. Smugglers cannot gain Spoils, since Spoils is never in the supply.
This came up this weekend for me, and the FAQ for Spoils is particularly specific: one can only gain a Spoils using Bandit Camp, Marauder, or Pillage. Period.
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Yeah, you also cannot Mint it, for example.
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Wait, so if I tried to return it with Ambassador would it stay in my hand?
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Wait, so if I tried to return it with Ambassador would it stay in my hand?
Yes. Same as the Shelters discussion happening elsewhere right now. Same with Prizes, Madmen, Mercenary. If a card is not in the supply, you can never return it to the supply. You can still choose it for Ambassador, but there will be no effect whatsoever.
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This came up this weekend for me, and the FAQ for Spoils is particularly specific: one can only gain a Spoils using Bandit Camp, Marauder, or Pillage. Period.
Or Thief!
You can still choose it for Ambassador, but there will be no effect whatsoever.
Other than revealing it in the first place, of course.
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This came up this weekend for me, and the FAQ for Spoils is particularly specific: one can only gain a Spoils using Bandit Camp, Marauder, or Pillage. Period.
Or Thief!
Good point. This is especially bad because Thief specifically says you "gain" the treasure, while the Spoils FAQ (at least on the wiki) says you can't "gain" Spoils except through those three cards.
I'm guessing Thief is a legal way to get it, but I'm not sure.
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Thief can get Spoils. You can also get passed one with Masquerade, although that isn't "gaining."
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Or Band of Misfits played as Marauder (or Thief).
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Or using that card from Guilds. What was it called again? ;D
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Or using that card from Guilds. What was it called again? ;D
uwguild, I think.
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Or Band of Misfits played as Marauder.
But then you're not getting Spoils from BoM, you're getting it from Marauder.
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Smugglers doesn't actually say you have to gain it from the supply...
Whenever anything says "gain", it means "gain from supply", unless it explicitly says otherwise.
I think in the FAQ's for all the cards that say "gain something..." without specifying from where, the FAQ clarifies that it has to come from the supply.
I feel like someone pointed out somewhere that I missed one, but yes, all gains are from the supply unless otherwise specified. Smugglers cannot gain Spoils, since Spoils is never in the supply.
I could see someone complaining about Black Market. It says that you may buy one of the revealed cards. Buying is distinct from gaining, so if you want to be really picky, you might wonder if buying this revealed, say, Watchtower causes you to gain it (and thus not gain it, since it isn't in the supply) or gain it from the Black Market deck. But it's clear what the intent of the card is. It's not just for triggering on-buy effect or wasting money.
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just a quick question on the subject. How about harlekin hitting a spoils?
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just a quick question on the subject. How about harlekin hitting a spoils?
If you mean Jester, then the spoils gets discarded, I think technically Jester player (or his possessor) chooses who gets the spoils, then nothing happens - no one actually gains it.
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Ah yes jester =) just got the question from an RL game. so the german name was in my head . thanks
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Ah yes jester =) just got the question from an RL game. so the german name was in my head . thanks
Yes - about 30 seconds and google convinced me that harlekin translates to harlequin, and that the closest synonym which is the name of a dominion card is jester, and this basically makes sense given the question. But after 30 seconds, I couldn't be sure!
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Say I gained a ruin and my opponent plays Smugglers, will it search the ruins pile for the other copy if it's still in the supply but not on top?
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no.
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Why not? Is that a specific stipulation or does it follow from some general principle that I'm unaware of (e.g. "cards have to be visible in order for them to be considered as in supply")?
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Why not? Is that a specific stipulation or does it follow from some general principle that I'm unaware of (e.g. "cards have to be visible in order for them to be considered as in supply")?
That's it. You can only gain top cards from the Supply (which stops you fishing for Knights too). Another example: if you Ambassador a Ruins then opponents will gain them for as long as the top Ruin happens to be of the right type.
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just a quick question on the subject. How about harlekin hitting a spoils?
If you mean Jester, then the spoils gets discarded, I think technically Jester player (or his possessor) chooses who gets the spoils, then nothing happens - no one actually gains it.
And this could matter if some Guilds card reacts to "when a card asks you to make a choice"!
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Let's not get into hypotheticals with Guilds cards which could trigger on random things. That especially sounds like a pretty unlikely one.
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Then you could argue that spoils don't cost 'up to six' since they cost 0*, not just 0.
Actually, if Swindled you can get Copper or Curse (at least with Prizes it was like that on Iso), so it does cost 0.
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Yeah, a cost of 0* is the same as a cost of 0, the asterisk is only there as a reminder that you can't actually buy it.