Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: synpax on December 12, 2012, 12:44:04 am
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Mr X., Donald, Donny....
May I be frank?
I am a new player. I own Dominion (that three-game combo set), have introduced three other people to the game, and will be giving it as a gift.
I'm also a mediocre Isotropic Player and I have recently tried Goko.
I play up to 20 games a day on Isotropic and I have no interest in playing on Goko. I don't know how Goko got the contract, but they have already screwed it up and have already cost you / RGG money with their substantial delay.
And I'll tell you something else: Goko will never be as successful or have the audience that Isotropic does, even if Iso is forced to shut down.
So I have an offer.
Set a quarterly tribute for Isotropic for it's players to collectively pay. If they meet it, Isotropic stays up. If not, it goes away. Some will give none, some will give a lot.
Now, I understand you may have signed a contract with Goko giving them exclusive rights. But I'd also suggest they may be in breach of this contract due to their delays and that you no longer owe them exclusive rights.
However - I haven't seen the contract so I may be wrong.
So if you are forced to shut down Iso, please keep my bounty idea in mind for when Goko goes bankrupt and you've lost further potential earnings due to their incompetence.
Love,
Synpax
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May I be frank?
No.
Do you honestly think Donald X hasn't considered something like this? Do you honestly think that he would have entered into this agreement without being fully aware of Goko's capabilities? Do you honestly think this idea has not be discussed dozens of times in this very forum?
And I honestly don't understand why people hate Goko so much. Yes, it is not perfect. But they are working on it. We have seen measured improvement, and we have every reason to expect the improvement will continue. If you have beef with Goko, post on their forum, or in this forum, and your specific problem will be addressed. If you just want to troll (and seriously, you cannot have seriously expected your offer would have been taken up), please do so somewhere else.
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So if you are forced to shut down Iso, please keep my bounty idea in mind for when Goko goes bankrupt and you've lost further potential earnings due to their incompetence.
That's a pretty bold statement there. Who said that bankruptcy is definitely happening?
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Do you honestly think Donald X hasn't considered something like this?
Do you honestly think that he thought that Goko would have F'd up his game so badly for so long when he signed the contract with them? Even if he had considered it before, it's time to reconsider it.
And I honestly don't understand why people hate Goko so much.
Then you have no business commenting until you learn what empathy is.
I can understand why some people prefer to play something that Goko is trying to be even if I know it's not of interest to me.
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So if you are forced to shut down Iso, please keep my bounty idea in mind for when Goko goes bankrupt and you've lost further potential earnings due to their incompetence.
That's a pretty bold statement there. Who said that bankruptcy is definitely happening?
Bookmark it. I sure hope X didn't get lured in with an equity offer.
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Even if this whole offer story was somehow reasonable, I quite doubt that it's Donald's call. I'm rather sure this is a RGG thing.
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Yeah, like how Guilds might not be the last Dominion expansion we see if RGG/Jay wants more.
Donald has said he "likes to please people", but of course he also likes making money.
Being a game designer is tough, so I don't blame him for any financial decisions he makes.
I don't think Goko is that bad, but it just needs a lot of work. Still, in this light it's even more amazing how DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
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Set a quarterly tribute for Isotropic for it's players to collectively pay. If they meet it, Isotropic stays up. If not, it goes away. Some will give none, some will give a lot.
You are far from the first to desperately try to save isotropic.
I have no contract with Goko. I have a contract with RGG that lets RGG sublicense the game. So, until that expires, all I can do is offer opinions. Man I have offered opinions.
Once my contract with RGG expires... nothing will change. I'm not going anywhere. I will not possibly hate Goko enough to leave RGG.
I don't know when RGG's contract with Goko expires or what it looks like. But whatever problems there have been, if things are working at that point then it will probably be best just to stay with them.
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Yeah, like how Guilds might not be the last Dominion expansion we see if RGG/Jay wants more.
Donald has said he "likes to please people", but of course he also likes making money.
The former is way more likely to produce a 9th expansion than the latter.
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I don't think Goko is that bad, but it just needs a lot of work. Still, in this light it's even more amazing how DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
The "Dougminion bug reports / requests" thread in the playtest forums has ~580 posts.
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Do you honestly think Donald X hasn't considered something like this? Do you honestly think that he would have entered into this agreement without being fully aware of Goko's capabilities? Do you honestly think this idea has not be discussed dozens of times in this very forum?
i agree with the overall sentiment wero, but i think you need to take it easy. it was the users first post, and i think that a hostile response reflects badly on the forum at large. just because this sort of idea is old news for regulars here doesn't mean it's something that everyone out there has thought of.
The "Dougminion bug reports / requests" thread in the playtest forums has ~580 posts.
Dougminion! i love it.
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Do you honestly think Donald X hasn't considered something like this? Do you honestly think that he would have entered into this agreement without being fully aware of Goko's capabilities? Do you honestly think this idea has not be discussed dozens of times in this very forum?
i agree with the overall sentiment wero, but i think you need to take it easy. it was the users first post, and i think that a hostile response reflects badly on the forum at large. just because this sort of idea is old news for regulars here doesn't mean it's something that everyone out there has thought of.
I think we've had enough users whose first (and often only) post is a non-constructive criticism of Goko that "trolling" is no longer too strong a word.
I don't think Goko is that bad, but it just needs a lot of work. Still, in this light it's even more amazing how DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
The "Dougminion bug reports / requests" thread in the playtest forums has ~580 posts.
That surprises me exactly not at all. The difference is that DougZ actually fixed those bugs. Meanwhile, we have two-month-old bugs still haunting Goko...
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Moved to Goko forum.
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I wouldn't be too hard on the OP.
Yes, too many pixels have already been wasted on the Iso vs. Goko arguments and "Why can't Goko be better?" etc.
But people have a strong gut reaction when you say to them "Hey, you know that thing you're willing to pay for? Well we're still taking it off the market." It just seems...crazy.
But yeah, DXV didn't make that call and it's a little absurd to ask him to fix this.
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Yeah, like how Guilds might not be the last Dominion expansion we see if RGG/Jay wants more.
Donald has said he "likes to please people", but of course he also likes making money.
The former is way more likely to produce a 9th expansion than the latter.
Quick! Everyone get out your picket signs! Off to RGG!
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
You forget, Goko are working on other games and are working on something much bigger than Isotropic.
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
You forget, Goko are working on other games and are working on something much bigger than Isotropic.
Goko also does a bunch of things that Isotropic doesn't:
1. Artificial Intelligence (this ups the "cost" to implement each card)
2. Billing & multiple forms of authentication
3. More complicated UI (I may hate it, but overhearing some "norms" at my game group - some did appreciate the prettier interface)
4. Music
5. Sound Effects
6. Avatars
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
... programming by candlelight since there was no electricity there yet?
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
You forget, Goko are working on other games and are working on something much bigger than Isotropic.
And I would not dream of discounting the work they do on the UI, etc. I do prefer a nice UI (though Goko's is still a bit off the mark - cards need to all be on one screen, the dig for your WW card in this stack of everything is beyond silly, etc).
BUT; basic gameplay issues (rules related) are either not prioritized highly, or they take forever figuring out how to solve them. That's my main point. We still have active procession bugs, but we're gonna go ahead and release Cornucopia to keep the cash flowing in...
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... programming by candlelight since there was no electricity there yet?
... coding with quill on parchment since there were no computers yet?
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
You forget, Goko are working on other games and are working on something much bigger than Isotropic.
Goko also does a bunch of things that Isotropic doesn't:
...
3. More complicated UI (I may hate it, but overhearing some "norms" at my game group - some did appreciate the prettier interface)
...
Less-pretty interface is the reason I stayed away from Iso for a while after I got into Dominion.
TBH, if I had encountered Goko before getting into Iso, I never would have gotten into Iso. Except for the fact that Goko is pay vs. Iso free. But I would have played lots of the base game on Goko and probably wouldn't have gotten into the expansions until much later.
To recap: lack of prettyness kept me away from iso, which is the only way I got into the expansions and thus became a real boy. Goko being around back then would have (at best) elongated or (at worst) prevented this development.
The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
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... programming by candlelight since there was no electricity there yet?
... coding with quill on parchment since there were no computers yet?
http://xkcd.com/378/ (http://xkcd.com/378/)
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The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
+10
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The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
I dunno... I think I prefer elegant to pretty. But then I'm a form-before-function guy.
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The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
I dunno... I think I prefer elegant to pretty. But then I'm a form-before-function guy.
I prefer the text interface as something that I can do anywhere, but IMHO i don't really care. My issues with the goko implementation are primarily that in addition to being slower, its harder to play in distracted mode.
I play nightfall and ascension on my ipad, and I don't care there. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window, and it would be super nice if I could just have the text log up so I can see what the hell you did on your turn so I can easily catch up.
If they gave me a pop out window that gave me chat and game log (see gchat in gmail), I'd probably buy it right now.
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The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
I dunno... I think I prefer elegant to pretty. But then I'm a form-before-function guy.
I prefer the text interface as something that I can do anywhere, but IMHO i don't really care. My issues with the goko implementation are primarily that in addition to being slower, its harder to play in distracted mode.
I play nightfall and ascension on my ipad, and I don't care there. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window, and it would be super nice if I could just have the text log up so I can see what the hell you did on your turn so I can easily catch up.
If they gave me a pop out window that gave me chat and game log (see gchat in gmail), I'd probably buy it right now.
I would LOVE the chat/log being pop-outable
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. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window,
Hang on there Frisky boy....wooooah
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I play nightfall and ascension on my ipad, and I don't care there. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window, and it would be super nice if I could just have the text log up so I can see what the hell you did on your turn so I can easily catch up.
Actually, all that's really needed is to run animations and sounds when goko isn't the active tab. It's really annoying that they have a "hey, it's your turn to do something" ping, but that ping only plays exactly when I don't need it.
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Also CF, at least in THEORY they do want to put it on ipad/iphone/android eventually so they are probably trying to not cement the interface to a PC style.
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Also CF, at least in THEORY they do want to put it on ipad/iphone/android eventually so they are probably trying to not cement the interface to a PC style.
I agree. Just give me the OPTION.
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. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window,
Hang on there Frisky boy....wooooah
Penny Arcade Reference
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/03/24
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. But if its going to be PC only, you have to accept that I'm probably going to be watching videos of theory slap boxing the one eyed champ in the other window,
Hang on there Frisky boy....wooooah
Penny Arcade Reference
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/03/24
Actually just watched JonTron's video on Daikatana. What a shitty game.
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I think we've had enough users whose first (and often only) post is a non-constructive criticism of Goko that "trolling" is no longer too strong a word.
What does it say to you, then, that so many of us have come here, knowing X reads this forum, registered, and posted ONLY to stand-up for keeping Iso up because we can't stand Goko?
Here are some constructive criticism of Goko:
- It's slow.
- Icon can't be chosen properly because the leaderboard covers it up (in Chrome).
- I can't type in chat.
- The design is fundamentally broken. It is taking a game that uses physical cards for IRL games for practical and numismatic purposes, and then, while making it an online game, tried to create a direct table-top version on a computer, not realizing that the game is more than just cards with words and artwork.
This is akin to an email client that makes you tear open a virtual envelope to read a message and is the biggest sign that they do NOT get design and they do not GET Dominion. They are limiting themselves needlessly with the constraints of physical cards when the physical cards are a means to play the game, not the game itself (IE - like building a physical house of cards is).
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The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
"Pretty" is subjective. I think modern, minimialism is prettier than a digital, fake wood table. I am a designer, so I know that whatever the client wants, they get.
However, you do realize you can have pretty with Iso, right? It's just a matter of a plugin. One already exists that gives you some card art. The rest is just a matter of simple programming. A plugin COULD make ISO look and function just like Goko.
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Once my contract with RGG expires... nothing will change. I'm not going anywhere. I will not possibly hate Goko enough to leave RGG.
Thanks for your reply. I feared that this was an RRG thing but since it sounded like Iso operates with your personal 'permission,' I had some hope.
Maybe there is someone at RRG who can consider this...
I guess I wonder why they didn't develop the talent in-house to go after this market. Buy Iso, charge a subscription, fund some contests to get 'pretty' CSS options for users, do a marketing push, etc. We're talking less than $100k here with some profit sharing for Doug. Revenue at $4.99 /mo 2500 players to start + banner ads + merch + upgrades (horse armor for your avatar, house to showcase 'achievements') + sponsorships = you could turn a healthy profit.
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All I know is that a portion of the decision was desire to have it available on all platforms (iPhone/iPad/Android/PC) and Goko offered that. Goko asked dougz if he would be interested in being a part of the official team, he was not. Similarily with RFTG Goko asked Keldon (who did the offline/online version currently downloadable) to join the team and in that case he did.
So while Iso itself was never considered (it's not cross platform friendly) and Goko wants to build a system for many games not just dominion so Goko themselves also never considered Iso.
On this topic The prettiness is a plus! Even lifelong gamers like me LIKE pretty, elegant interfaces. I'm not saying Goko is elegant, but it is pretty. They get points for it.
"Pretty" is subjective. I think modern, minimialism is prettier than a digital, fake wood table. I am a designer, so I know that whatever the client wants, they get.
However, you do realize you can have pretty with Iso, right? It's just a matter of a plugin. One already exists that gives you some card art. The rest is just a matter of simple programming. A plugin COULD make ISO look and function just like Goko.
By the same theory you can make a plugin to "uglify" or "minimilize" goko
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I think we've had enough users whose first (and often only) post is a non-constructive criticism of Goko that "trolling" is no longer too strong a word.
This is akin to an email client that makes you tear open a virtual envelope to read a message and is the biggest sign that they do NOT get design and they do not GET Dominion. They are limiting themselves needlessly with the constraints of physical cards when the physical cards are a means to play the game, not the game itself (IE - like building a physical house of cards is).
The fact that it is played with cards is part of Dominion's charm. Even though Iso was just little icons, you still had a hand and a deck, and it still referred to cards. It didn't have shuffling animations or cards flying around because, hey, that would be hard to program, and DougZ was really only interested in testing the cards. The fact that it's done with cards is sort of the soul of Dominion. If you take that out, it's no longer Dominion. Just like email is no longer posted mail - it's something different entirely. If you play a computer version of Monopoly, do you get rid of the board? Do you stop playing with the little iron, thimble and battleship? Do you suddenly make it all abstract? No. You don't.
Now let's get to the practical point of selling this computerized game. If you try to market Iso for the general market, as is, no one will buy it. They'll take one look and say "This doesn't look finished - this looks like an alpha version. This looks boring. I'm not going to pay money for this." Whereas Goko, flawed as it is, is what we have come to expect from a computerized gaming experience. Now Iso is fine for a free product. Many of you the members here were introduced to Dominion through Iso. But would they have paid money for it? Would they have seen it on Steam and thought "Wow, I should play that!" No. For a designer, you seem to know very little about the general public's mindset on design. You may like modern minimalism, but most other people don't.
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I guess I wonder why they didn't develop the talent in-house to go after this market. Buy Iso, charge a subscription, fund some contests to get 'pretty' CSS options for users, do a marketing push, etc. We're talking less than $100k here with some profit sharing for Doug. Revenue at $4.99 /mo 2500 players to start + banner ads + merch + upgrades (horse armor for your avatar, house to showcase 'achievements') + sponsorships = you could turn a healthy profit.
DougZ was not interested in developing a professional version, and Goko wanted to start from scratch, because they wanted a platform that could play multiple games.
Also, I much prefer the one-time purchase to a monthly fee. I really, really, really detest monthly fees. This is why Guild Wars is the only MMO I'll ever play consistently.
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It's the double post thread!
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Everybody double post! :D
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Or triple post, if that's your thing. 8)
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Maybe there is someone at RRG who can consider this...
I guess I wonder why they didn't develop the talent in-house to go after this market. Buy Iso, charge a subscription, fund some contests to get 'pretty' CSS options for users, do a marketing push, etc. We're talking less than $100k here with some profit sharing for Doug. Revenue at $4.99 /mo 2500 players to start + banner ads + merch + upgrades (horse armor for your avatar, house to showcase 'achievements') + sponsorships = you could turn a healthy profit.
There is no big corporate 'they'. RGG is two people - Jay Tummelson and his wife.
And, unsurprisingly, they had no intention of suddenly taking on a SECOND job of maintaining and monetizing an online game, in addition to their usual job of publishing physical games.
So which one of them do you expect to "consider that idea" and "develop talent in-house" and "do a marketing push"? And why on earth would they consider doing that rather than outsourcing it to a different company?
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this kind of talk seems to come up a lot so here we go.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Isotropic#Isotropic_As_Official_Online_Dominion
feel free to edit in (or cite!) anything that i left out.
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The fact that it is played with cards is part of Dominion's charm.
Not really. How many games have you played? How many works of random fantasy art have you stared at for just as long.
Remember: the only reason IRL is played with cards is because _there is no other way to do it_.
In Vegas, for example, many tables are replacing cards with digital tables, and they are well received so far.
Just like email is no longer posted mail - it's something different entirely.
No, the purpose of it is the same. To communicate.
Militia is a card. It isn't an actual group of irregular soldiers rounded up. The card represents an abstract idea.
If you play a computer version of Monopoly, do you get rid of the board? Do you stop playing with the little iron, thimble and battleship? Do you suddenly make it all abstract? No. You don't.
Who said you had to make it abstract?
You do get rid of the shaking of die (they are rolled automatically), you get rid of the cash, the deeds, and, most importantly, the banker, which the computer handles. And then you add some things, like sound effects (cash register noises), video effects (rather than being little static pieces of iron, the avatars move and interact with each other).
Now let's get to the practical point of selling this computerized game. If you try to market Iso for the general market, as is, no one will buy it.
Which is why I suggested giving options to users. For example, why not visually represent the elements interacting with each other using 3D animations. Gosh, if cards is all we're doing, then Iso does that already with one of those plugins.
Whereas Goko, flawed as it is, is what we have come to expect from a computerized gaming experience.
Not me. I expect either full interactive with creative animations or something completely streamlined. Not something that just cut-and-pastes design over from a card game.
For a designer, you seem to know very little about the general public's mindset on design. You may like modern minimalism, but most other people don't.
You haven't paid any attention to anything I've said so far. Have an argument with someone else. I'm not sure you are capable of grasping my point.
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I remember when Goko was much buggier and harder to use than it is today. I am sure it will continue to improve.
The AI is really impressive to me, although I don't know how difficult designing such a thing would be it seems pretty fantastic that it can play like a tolerably strong player on any kingdom.
I also think that the fringing effects on cards, blue for play, orange for discard, red for trash iirc, are a step up from what isotropic had. I remember when I first started playing on iso I used to click on cards to try to discard them, but of course that was never implemented in iso, probably because people might get confused and click to discard when they really meant to click to play. The fringing on Goko really helps avoid that problem.
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Remember: the only reason IRL is played with cards is because _there is no other way to do it_.
This is really a matter of opinion. Some people like playing with real cards. I do. I enjoy playing the physical game.
You don't have to play with cards IRL. You could set around a table with your friends, break out your laptops and play on isotropic. ;)
Please understand that there are many, many people here who do in fact feel the same way as you. They love isotropic and would much prefer it to Goko. But this discussion has been had many times over, and there really isn't any recourse left. Thus, people are trying to see the best in Goko because, soon enough, it will be all that's left.
And that's OK. Goko isn't that bad, and it should continue improving. In the meantime, keep playing iso while it's still around.
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I think we've had enough users whose first (and often only) post is a non-constructive criticism of Goko that "trolling" is no longer too strong a word.
What does it say to you, then, that so many of us have come here, knowing X reads this forum, registered, and posted ONLY to stand-up for keeping Iso up because we can't stand Goko?
I'm entirely uncertain what to think of it, given that the total who have done this is three or four. I'm glad you've done more than just drop one or two posts and have continued to engage in the discussion, though. But a few people coming to this forum just to post about Goko doesn't convince me there's a mass movement out there. I guess it does tell me that newcomers to the forum don't read the FAQ, so there's that.
Here are some constructive criticism of Goko:
- It's slow.
- Icon can't be chosen properly because the leaderboard covers it up (in Chrome).
- I can't type in chat.
- The design is fundamentally broken. It is taking a game that uses physical cards for IRL games for practical and numismatic purposes, and then, while making it an online game, tried to create a direct table-top version on a computer, not realizing that the game is more than just cards with words and artwork.
(1) Yep, this is known.
(2+3) Sounds buggy; you should report it to them, or ask someone here to do it, as I know their support forums can be difficult to get into.
(4) I disagree. Their version is less elegant but prettier than Doug's, certainly. But when you translate a tabletop game to a computer and intend to sell it, you need something that looks, visually, much like the table top game. Others have already said this more clearly than I.
Understand: I'm one of Goko's loudest, fiercest critics around these parts. Like, since before we'd even heard the name "FunSockets." Just ask Donald! I want them to succeed, though because, hey, I'd love to play with the new cards online. And they're getting better, though it's a very slow process--slower than it really ought to be for a company that's doing little other than program a few online games--and they seem to have their priorities way out of whack.
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I remember a chips version of Dominion with those Puzzle Strike type chips.
It looked pretty cool and was pretty portable. How would you shuffle?
Perhaps a cloth bag, dunnow.
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Understand: I'm one of Goko's loudest, fiercest critics around these parts. Like, since before we'd even heard the name "FunSockets." Just ask Donald!
I'm indeed wondering the whole thread if Kirian was hacked or brainwashed or whatever...
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I will say this, I am about an equal fan right now of both iso and Goko. I like iso slightly more for one reason and that is that Goko is slow. If Goko gets faster, then I might like them more. But, ironically, I play about 70% on Goko and 30% on iso. Also, there are some minor bug things with Goko, but biggest for me is speed.
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as I know their support forums can be difficult to get into
Why difficult? You get there more or less the same way as on Goko or Iso (for me exactly the same, I use Google to login on all three sites). Out of those I think GetSatisfaction is the easiest to access - you can start an account there or use Google, Facebook, Twitter, Windows Live or Open ID, while Goko doesn't allow last two ways and Iso is Google/Yahoo/no login only.
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All this is so easy and obvious its a wonder Donald and Jay have not done it already...
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What are you arguing about, synpax?
If you want to complain about Goko, you can do so through the regular channels. If you want to complain about DXV, well, that's pretty stupid since it's not like your forum posts will magically keep Isotropic alive.
I tolerate people criticizing Goko and RGG and DXV and whatever, but at some point it's just needless blather from people who feel like they are owed something.
People way more invested than you in Isotropic have moved on. You can too.
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as I know their support forums can be difficult to get into
Why difficult? You get there more or less the same way as on Goko or Iso (for me exactly the same, I use Google to login on all three sites). Out of those I think GetSatisfaction is the easiest to access - you can start an account there or use Google, Facebook, Twitter, Windows Live or Open ID, while Goko doesn't allow last two ways and Iso is Google/Yahoo/no login only.
In private beta, I was unable to get into their support forums. Perhaps the new ones are better, but I haven't played enough in public beta to need to report anything.
People way more invested than you in Isotropic have moved on. You can too.
There certainly is something ironic about someone with under 400 games on Iso complaining about this.
Understand: I'm one of Goko's loudest, fiercest critics around these parts. Like, since before we'd even heard the name "FunSockets." Just ask Donald!
I'm indeed wondering the whole thread if Kirian was hacked or brainwashed or whatever...
Hah! No, I'm just not a huge fan of non-constructive criticism, or repetition of points that have been quashed multiple times.
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[...] DougZ programmed Iso on his own and got 99.9% of the rules right on the first try.
LOL. You only ever saw the fifth try. :-)
Still, let's check your bug squashing timeline vs Goko's...
It's probably about the same.
But didn't Doug do his work on top of a regular job? And by himself? And in a cave, up hill both ways in 7 feet of snow?
... programming by candlelight since there was no electricity there yet?
While juggling, and without breakfast.
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There certainly is something ironic about someone with under 400 games on Iso complaining about this.
I love that 400 games is considered a small amount ;D
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The average number of games (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuZ91-6FOcw_dHp0Yy0tM2hSelp2TFZwYlpqb2k0UVE#gid=11) played by an entrant in the DominionStrategy.com Championship is over 2,000. If you eliminate those that lost in the first round, that average jumps to nearly 3,000.
Combined, the entrants have played over half a million games! And although a lot of those games surely involve each other, that's still > 500,000 man-games of Dominion!
Kind of astonishing when you think about it.
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Yup. Last time I checked, I had well over 2,000 games.
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The average number of games (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuZ91-6FOcw_dHp0Yy0tM2hSelp2TFZwYlpqb2k0UVE#gid=11) played by an entrant in the DominionStrategy.com Championship is over 2,000. If you eliminate those that lost in the first round, that average jumps to nearly 3,000.
Combined, the entrants have played over half a million games! And although a lot of those games surely involve each other, that's still > 500,000 man-games of Dominion!
Kind of astonishing when you think about it.
Here's an astonishing fact: There are at least three people on the leaderboard that have played more games than WW.
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May I be frank?
No.
Do you honestly think Donald X hasn't considered something like this? Do you honestly think that he would have entered into this agreement without being fully aware of Goko's capabilities? Do you honestly think this idea has not be discussed dozens of times in this very forum?
And I honestly don't understand why people hate Goko so much. Yes, it is not perfect. But they are working on it. We have seen measured improvement, and we have every reason to expect the improvement will continue. If you have beef with Goko, post on their forum, or in this forum, and your specific problem will be addressed. If you just want to troll (and seriously, you cannot have seriously expected your offer would have been taken up), please do so somewhere else.
"Do you honestly think that he would have entered into this agreement without being fully aware of Goko's capabilities?"..?! Putting aside the issue that Donald X. has no contract with these people.... would anyone have entered into a contract with them have entered into a contract with them if they'd known all this was going to happen.
Werothegreat - you have a very opposite opinion to me. I'm happy to read you defenses of Goko even though I don't agree with them one little bit. But I don't know why you think you have the right to "shout down" people who disagree with you. Or intimidate them into not expressing their opinions. Yes the view that Goko is rubbish has been expressed many times. The view that Goko is OK has been express quite a few times as well. The Goko implementation of Dominion is, of course, the biggest thing that is happening in the Dominion universe at the moment and many people who love the game want to have their say. To you my opinions and the opinions of a number of others don't seem to be "productive".... but the fact you don't like them or find it boring or inconvenient or non-productive that I am expressing them is not going to stop me. I love Dominion. I was excited about the Goko implementation when I first found out about it. I playtested and gave feed back and advised and spent a heap of time - for the love of the game. No I think things are going very much in the wrong direction and yes I will say so.