Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: ashersky on November 14, 2012, 08:36:32 pm
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Welcome to Blitz Mafia IV: A Veteran Battle of Wits
Setup Information (Less Pressure (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Less_Pressure))
3 Mafia Goons
3 Vanilla Townies
2 Innocent Children
Mechanics:
This game is Nightless.
This game uses a White Flag: town needs to lynch any two Mafia Goons to win.
Mafia have daytalk.
When the first Mafia Goon is lynched, they get a return kill at a town player.
Innocent Children are announced at the start of the game.
Players:
1 - Captain_Frisk
2 - Eevee
3 - Galzria - Mafia Goon, Surrendered D2
4 - Insomniac
5 - Jimmmmm - Innocent Child
6 - Robz888 - Mafia Goon, Lynched D1
7 - shraeye - Innocent Child, Vengekilled D1
8 – SwitchedFromStarcraft - Mafia Goon, Lynched D2
Backup Mod: Voltgloss and Jorbles
Day Starts:Day 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5427.msg134405#msg134405); Day 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5427.msg135401#msg135401)
Vote Counts: 1.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5427.msg134572#msg134572); 1.16 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5427.msg135390#msg135390); 2.1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5427.msg135604#msg135604)
Blitz Mafia Ruleset Changes in RED BECAUSE RED GOES FASTER
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage at any time.
3. There are no nights.
4. Dead players cannot post in QTs, other than the spectator one.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1.Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.
7. This game will have 24 HOUR deadlines. If a player does not have a simple majority at deadline, the player with most votes currently on them will be lynched, and the game will go into twilight.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
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innn
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Hey I like blitz! In!
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/in for SfS, Robz and Galzria.
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Frisk says "in now gimme my pm"
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Blitz isn't my speed (literally), but I do always enjoy reading them. You guys have fun. ;D
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Blitz isn't my speed (literally), but I do always enjoy reading them. You guys have fun. ;D
I need a co/back-up mod, if you want.
Also, two more, assuming all the proxy sign ups confirm.
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Whoa no night phases. I don't understand
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But, but... I was trying to DOWN my Mafia count!
Just send me my PM.
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Whoa no night phases. I don't understand
8 players, 3 mafia goons. Two of them lynched, town wins. They get a vengeance kill. It's pretty neat!
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Intriguing. Seems interesting for blitz
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Whoa no night phases. I don't understand
It's a battle of wits. It's all lynch. Choose and die. The only exception is if we lynch Mafia, they get an instant retaliatory kill.
So 6 unknowns, 3 each town and scum. 2 IC's. Figure out the scum.
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I am super intrigued by this setup. I love talking. In.
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I don't think I can dedicate the time for this right now, but I too am intrigued. I will definitely follow and maybe be a stand-in or something, though I doubt that'll be needed.
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In in in in
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So we need confirmations from SFS and Robz (who I will assume is in, given his standing rule of being in all games), plus one more, and this can launch.
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Confirming in. Thanks for auto enroll.
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oh and btw, cool idea for a game ashersky! Like the name, like the participant list, like the game setup.
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I'm certainly no veteran, but if you're looking to fill the last spot I'm up for it.
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I'm certainly no veteran, but if you're looking to fill the last spot I'm up for it.
Good enough for me! When SFS confirms, I'll start it up.
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bump so I can follow along and keep track of the stats,
but /out because I am busy and because the game is full
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bump so I can follow along and keep track of the stats,
but /out because I am busy and because the game is full
Still waiting on SFS to confirm. Everyone else is in, though. If he doesn't confirm, the slot is yours. I know he wanted a blitz game, so I don't want to bump him quite yet.
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(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=288878&type=card)
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Ok I'm in. And thanks for multiple PMs.
Whoa no night phases. I don't understand
It's a battle of wits. It's all lynch. Choose and die. The only exception is if we lynch Mafia, they get an instant retaliatory kill.
So 6 unknowns, 3 each town and scum. 2 IC's. Figure out the scum.
FoS: Galz, for meta'ing that he's town before the PMs even go out.
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Thread Locked.
PMs are going out.
Note: People NOT in the game may continue to post to tag the thread to follow, or to request the Spectator QT.
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Please confirm receipt of PMs by reply PM to me.
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Please confirm receipt of PMs by reply PM to me.
Waiting on 3 more confirmations.
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Before we start - will there be any special weekend rules?
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Before we start - will there be any special weekend rules?
Day 2 might be the whole weekend, to be safe. We'll see how fast Day 1 goes.
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The three (3) of you left out there, please confirm receipt of PMs by reply PM to me.
Opening flavor/day start post is written and ready.
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The two (2) of you left out there, please confirm receipt of PMs by reply PM to me.
Opening flavor/day start post is written and ready. I may just start this game without the last two confirmations, depending on how I feel.
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They were already far advanced when they came the first time, to watch. Mostly it was a hobby, human watching, but as is the way of any civilized race, some of them took it farther. Made it a science. A specialty. And here they were now.
They decided to take eight, one day. They had watched the odd justice system of the humans, with a group of them deciding by vote who the evil ones were, and then lynching them, only to find out afterward whether they were right or not. So an experiment, then.
They came in the night, and snatched them up.
Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Galzria, Insomniac, Jimmmmm, Robz888, shraeye, and SwitchedFromStarcraft all wake up in a round room, with a bright ceiling providing an unusual light that reminds them of the sun. There is a large wooden table in the middle, with 8 chairs. And a noose hangs from the ceiling off to one side.
Greetings, humans. Three of you are Mafia Goons, as you call them. Three of you are Vanilla Townies, another strange name. Shraeye and Jimmmmm are Innocent Children. You have about 24 hours to make your first decision. The ceiling stays on until this exercise ends. Good luck.
Day 1 has begun.
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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Is anyone but me awake?
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
It feels like it's been too long since he's rolled scum, he must be scum here.
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Oh Eevee is in this game right, Well Eevee is obvscum too.
Team is probably Eevee/CF/Robz
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Reminder to everyone: read the rules. This game is different.
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Okay so it's 3am here and I'm going to sleeps soonish (I'd give it 2 hours but what do I know). Tomorrow one of my best friends is having a housewarming party, and I invited people over to my place before that, so I basically won't be on my computer at all. Luckily these days internet is where your phone is, so I'll make sure to follow and post as much as possible. But yeah, nothing that long and I won't be on all the time. Fridays are probably busy for everyone, but just a heads up. I'll do my best though.
Jimmmm and shraeye, you have a huge responsibility here. Like basically, the more you lead the conversation the better. Feel free to tunnel all you want, remember you can't get nightkilled (one of you is going to die after we hit scum for the first time though) and try to offer us as much insight as possible. Ultimately our decisions will mostly be made by you two.
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Okay, a thought. I don't know anything about Jimmmm yet (welcome!), but shraeye can certainly be quite stubborn with his reads, so the innocent childs might disagree about some stuff sonewhere down the road. If that happens and one of them is right and one of them is wrong, it will be really easy for scum to "agree" with the IC that is wrong and choose to sheep him. To prevent that, I think we should all announce which IC we'll be sheeping in case they disagree about the lynch target. I'm going to pick shraeye because he is more experienced and I really like the guy after RMM3. So, I'll be sheeping shraeye's votes unless I have STRONG reasons to do otherwise, in which case I'll obviously provide you the reasons. I encourage others to pick an IC to sheep too.
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I would stupid random RVS vote for Insomniac for not engaging in theory talk with me while I'm still here, but shraeye has my vote.
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Has my vote as in controls my vote.
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Okay, a thought. I don't know anything about Jimmmm yet (welcome!), but shraeye can certainly be quite stubborn with his reads, so the innocent childs might disagree about some stuff sonewhere down the road. If that happens and one of them is right and one of them is wrong, it will be really easy for scum to "agree" with the IC that is wrong and choose to sheep him. To prevent that, I think we should all announce which IC we'll be sheeping in case they disagree about the lynch target. I'm going to pick shraeye because he is more experienced and I really like the guy after RMM3. So, I'll be sheeping shraeye's votes unless I have STRONG reasons to do otherwise, in which case I'll obviously provide you the reasons. I encourage others to pick an IC to sheep too.
What theory talk is there to talk about. I disagree with your choice to sheep. Shraeye can be right on some reads and wrong on others that doesn't mean I'm going to always sheep Shraeye or Jimm. A perfect example is RMM3 Galz, he was godly with his reads when he first came back but when I brought him back at the very end he decided it was time to vote for ash and change his read.
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
It feels like it's been too long since he's rolled scum, he must be scum here.
RMM3 just ended!
OMGUS Vote: Insomniac
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Vote: Captain_Frisk
It feels like it's been too long since he's rolled scum, he must be scum here.
RMM3 just ended!
OMGUS Vote: Insomniac
In a normal game >:(
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Also maybe I'm bitter for being strangled but scum team is totally CF, Eevee, Robz
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Double ICs means that random voting hits scum with 60% effectiveness. (as long as we don't lynch me!)
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Insomniac, don't you see how it can be beneficial for us to have CONFIRMED TOWNIES deciding who we are going to lynch? Frisk, care to weigh in on this?
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It's not about depriving yourself of a chance to vote. It's about depriving scum of a chance to decide ANYTHING.
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Don't mind me, just making sure this shows up when I view replies.
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Insomniac, don't you see how it can be beneficial for us to have CONFIRMED TOWNIES deciding who we are going to lynch? Frisk, care to weigh in on this?
No, confirmed townies doesn't make them better at scumhunting as a matter of fact they are WORSE at scum hunting.
From my perspective
2 ACTUAL IC's
1 More IC (Myself)
2 Townies
3 Scum.
so as far as I'm concerned there are 5 lynchables and i have a 3/5 of hitting scum vs 2/5 of hitting town where as IC's are 50/50
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Insomniac, don't you see how it can be beneficial for us to have CONFIRMED TOWNIES deciding who we are going to lynch? Frisk, care to weigh in on this?
No, confirmed townies doesn't make them better at scumhunting as a matter of fact they are WORSE at scum hunting.
From my perspective
2 ACTUAL IC's
1 More IC (Myself)
2 Townies
3 Scum.
so as far as I'm concerned there are 5 lynchables and i have a 3/5 of hitting scum vs 2/5 of hitting town where as IC's are 50/50
We don't know you are town though. My method ensures scum has no business deciding ANY lynches. Idk, I feel like typing "aÅPgkopajghlöamjboplöklaegmnklöaegngklömnsgöp why don't you see this!?!?", but maybe I'm wrong? Someone else, what do you thing?
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*think
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Insomniac, don't you see how it can be beneficial for us to have CONFIRMED TOWNIES deciding who we are going to lynch? Frisk, care to weigh in on this?
No, confirmed townies doesn't make them better at scumhunting as a matter of fact they are WORSE at scum hunting.
From my perspective
2 ACTUAL IC's
1 More IC (Myself)
2 Townies
3 Scum.
so as far as I'm concerned there are 5 lynchables and i have a 3/5 of hitting scum vs 2/5 of hitting town where as IC's are 50/50
We don't know you are town though. My method ensures scum has no business deciding ANY lynches. Idk, I feel like typing "aÅPgkopajghlöamjboplöklaegmnklöaegngklömnsgöp why don't you see this!?!?", but maybe I'm wrong? Someone else, what do you thing?
Dude we've had this discussion a billion times in other games, ICs are no better at scumhunting then anyone else and generally are slightly worse.
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The problem with the ICs is that they can possibly pick me - and I'm town. No matter what we agree to, I'm not going to self lynch.
Of course we want our ICs to be involved, but if we give the game over to them, then we might as well not play. This is a built in excuse to lurk - which then deprives the ICs of the data required.
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This is much different from a normal game. You like to mention how RMM3 a lot. Well, that's still fresh in my mind too, and it showed me how ridiculously easy it is for scum to play confident and lead town to mislynches. Scum can't nightkill here, all we have is lynches. And my plan would make scum manipulating them impossible. It would make scum powerless, they'd basically have to try to blend in and hope they can fake towniness better than actual townies. No powers.
Don't you see how ridiculously good that would be for us?
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The problem with the ICs is that they can possibly pick me - and I'm town. No matter what we agree to, I'm not going to self lynch.
Of course we want our ICs to be involved, but if we give the game over to them, then we might as well not play. This is a built in excuse to lurk - which then deprives the ICs of the data required.
I'm not saying we should just surrender and let IC's randomly pick one of us. I suggest we play totally normally, interact with each other and build cases and stuff. Just let IC's dictate the voting/lynch eventually. Like, right know I suspect Insomniac the most, because I think my plan is good and I think it's possible he secretly agrees with me but wants town to not realize the plan is actually solid. We almost never agree with Ins though, so he could be still be town very well.
I wouldn't vote for myself in any event either, that would fall under "strong reasons to do otherwise".
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Ok - theory time:
Day 1 Current state: 2 ICs, 3 Town, 3 Mafia
Day 1 Mislynch->Day2: 2 IC, 2 Town, 3 Mafia
-Day 2 Mislynch->Day3: 2IC, 1 Town, 3 Mafia == Scum Win
-Day 2 Scumlynch-> Day3: 1IC, 2Town, 2 Scum: Lylo
Day1 Scumlynch-> Day2: 1 IC, 3 Town, 2 Mafia
Day2 Mislynch -> Day3: 1IC, 2Town, 2 Scum: Lylo
Day2 Scumlynch: Win
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Basically - we have 1 mislynch.
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That's good to know, thanks Frisk.
If you are town, my plan means letting your confirmed townie vote to be controlled by someone else you also know to be town. As Insomniac pointed out, that is not good, because the other townie doesn't know you are town. However, the upside is, we COMPLETELY get rid of all three scum votes. On top of not having a night kill, scum has no control over the lynch! That's all there is to it. I'm not saying we should change the game play dramatically or vote for ourselves if IC's want us to, I just want to make mafia as powerless as possible. I really think this is good.
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Eevee, I agree with Insomniac on this one. It sounds like you're trying to abdicate responsibility for your vote.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..."
Yes, we should listen to our IC's, and their input is invaluable, but like always our vote needs to be our own, or else we learn nothing from a lynch.
As far as maths related to this game - near as I can tell it's first team to two.
If we lynch two scum, we win.
If we mislynch twice (with or without a correct lynch thrown in), we lose.
This seems rather unbalanced in favor of scum since it's really a 3 on 3 debate, with 2 IC's here helping to sort things out. But scum have the advantage of knowing each other AND they have daychat.
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I call Ins+Galzria scum team.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..." makes no sense, I was asking people to choose the IC they'll be sheeping specificifally so that that wouldn't happen!
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Galzria, unless I'm mistaken my method ensures town is 50% to win even if our IC's pick the lynch targets totally randomly. If you think this setup favors scum, why would you not want that?
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In reality it will obviously be all but random, and scum not being able to choose who they vote will make daychat a lot less useful.
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I call Ins+Galzria scum team.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..." makes no sense, I was asking people to choose the IC they'll be sheeping specificifally so that that wouldn't happen!
But that's EXACTLY what will happen if the first lynch is town. The only reason you'll have for having lynched that person is "My IC told me to".
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I call Ins+Galzria scum team.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..." makes no sense, I was asking people to choose the IC they'll be sheeping specificifally so that that wouldn't happen!
But that's EXACTLY what will happen if the first lynch is town. The only reason you'll have for having lynched that person is "My IC told me to".
That is correct. Really think this through though, please. I'd at least like to be convinced I'm wrong.
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I call Ins+Galzria scum team.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..." makes no sense, I was asking people to choose the IC they'll be sheeping specificifally so that that wouldn't happen!
But that's EXACTLY what will happen if the first lynch is town. The only reason you'll have for having lynched that person is "My IC told me to".
That is correct. Really think this through though, please. I'd at least like to be convinced I'm wrong.
The problem is you're taking things to an extreme in a way that is only beneficial to scum.
Let's say we play normally. People argue, people make cases, etc. We lynch. We hit town.
Now, it takes 5 to lynch. That means any wagon that hits town must have at least 1 scum on board (1 IC voting), or 2 scum on board (0 IC's voting). We can then use the arguments and cases from D1 to analyze where we think scum to be.
If we abdicate our vote straight out, then we lose out on the value of wagons and arguments for and against them turning into lynches. Something that is an invaluable tool for town going forward.
Town is the UNINFORMED majority, we win by collecting information. What you've suggested is a direct assault on potential information.
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Galzria, unless I'm mistaken my method ensures town is 50% to win even if our IC's pick the lynch targets totally randomly. If you think this setup favors scum, why would you not want that?
In reality it will obviously be all but random, and scum not being able to choose who they vote will make daychat a lot less useful.
Is this incorrect in your opinion?
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Slight change to a number above: With 0 IC's voting it would take all 3 scum, not just 2, assuming nobody self-votes.
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I think in theory, Eevee is wrong, and in practice, Eevee is really really wrong. No offense, Eevee.
The reason his plan absolutely doesn't work in practice is that... we can't sheep Jimmmmmm (how many m's?). We just can't. He's a total new guy (girl? let us know if you care about that) to our circle. As we all know, this is a game about knowing people really well, and it's just going to be amplified times 1,000 in this setup, which is as pure to behavior mafia as you can possibly get. There are no night actions or power roles, just pure behavioral analysis, resting in no small way on our prior knowledge of each other--which Jim doesn't have.
So anyone who pledges, "I'm going to vote for who Jim thinks is scum, as long as it's not me," is really hurting the town here, because Jim (no offense) is the most likely person here to be wrong (especially in this setup).
So in reality, Eevee's plan is just to let shraeye pick. Which isn't so bad, shraeye's a good player, and an adequate IC, but I have no reason to trust his reads over my own. Nor do I have any reason to want Eevee to trust shraeye's reads over his own, or over mine, for instance, really. If Eevee is scum, then sure I want him to abdicate, but if Eevee is scum, he'll only do what shraeye wants if it's bad for town.
So I'm going to give a lot of weight to what the people I think are town have to say, which includes shraeye and Jim in a big way. But it shouldn't be a "they get to decide" scenario.
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Galzria, unless I'm mistaken my method ensures town is 50% to win even if our IC's pick the lynch targets totally randomly. If you think this setup favors scum, why would you not want that?
In reality it will obviously be all but random, and scum not being able to choose who they vote will make daychat a lot less useful.
Is this incorrect in your opinion?
Why don't we just /random in other games on D1? Our odds of hitting scum would be higher than f.DS's history, right?
We don't because what we gain - the information of wagons, and arguing, and defending etc. Are invaluable to town.
Yes, I disagree that what you're suggesting is the best play because you seem ok with throwing out the window Towns ability to gain valuable information, in favor of a 50/50 chance.
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Color me surprised.
UNLESS! It's Ins-Galz-Robz. ( : ) )
I still don't see how I'm wrong though. :(
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Although, I'm just thinking now, we actually got really luck that Jim drew IC, because if we didn't know his alignment... I think it might be really, really hard to tell. Because we don't have a meta on him.
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Color me surprised.
UNLESS! It's Ins-Galz-Robz. ( : ) )
I still don't see how I'm wrong though. :(
Because shraeye is no better informed than the rest of us?
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Saying "this setup favors scum" and "we don't want to make it a 50-50 chance*" is pretty contradictory don't you think?
*It's not 50-50. It's not like our IC's would be random shooting. They'd analyze people's cases and behavior and do all the stuff you normally do. Again, you are giving your vote to another confirmed townie and in exchange all the scum has to give their votes to them too.
Saying "there is nothing to analyze then, duh" is also incorrect. We are still going to be interacting, making cases and listing people in order of scumminess. We can even say "I'd vote for x". All that would to influence IC's decision and be information we could go back to analyze after a flip.
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Color me surprised.
UNLESS! It's Ins-Galz-Robz. ( : ) )
I still don't see how I'm wrong though. :(
Because shraeye is no better informed than the rest of us?
Shraeye is not scum though. Better than 50% of us.
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I don't like robz,insom and galz agreeing, as one of Themis scummmmmm
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And you...
The problem with the ICs is that they can possibly pick me - and I'm town. No matter what we agree to, I'm not going to self lynch.
Of course we want our ICs to be involved, but if we give the game over to them, then we might as well not play. This is a built in excuse to lurk - which then deprives the ICs of the data required.
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Eevee the point of IC's is to make your scum hunting better as you know additionally townie's thats great! it doesn't mean you sheep them blindly. That gives no information. Because day 2 the ic goes hey insom lynched town I go "but i sheeped jimmm!"
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I can't wait for. SFS.
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The thing is, it's clear not all of you are scum. On the other hand, I feel I generally respond to logic pretty well and none of your explanations have convinced me I'm wrong. I'm torn really, I still believe I'm right, but it's clear I'm fairly alone with this viewpoint and I don't know if I should continue shoving this down everyone's throats until one party changes their minds. I'm envisioning an after-game scenario where scum-Galz and scum-Robz go like "oh Eevee was totally right, I'm really glad we made him drop the idea!" and I don't like it at all.
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I don't hate being wrong at all, fwiw. But being right for once and letting scum or misguided townies convince I'm wrong would be rather unfortunate.
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I don't hate being wrong at all, fwiw. But being right for once and letting scum or misguided townies convince I'm wrong would be rather unfortunate.
Why is it clear we aren't all scum it could be Galz-Robz-Ins...but worst scum team ever award
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The thing is Eevee, I see what you're driving for, but I think you're not understanding the value of the lost information. You simply cannot "recreate" or "psydocreate" the same feelings of scummy vs not-scummy behavior without real votes and stances and arguments that lead somewhere. "I would vote X" is such an easy thing to fake.
Further, while your premise that "in a vacuum, IC's would have a 50% chance"is accurate, we are not in a vacuum. And I think that what your suggestion boils down to is "Let's have the two sides debate, and the IC's pick the winner". It doesn't account for the fact that you're essentially turning the game into a straight oratorical contest, rather than what's scummy and what's not.
Robz is probably a better orator than I am. He likes to claim he's better than Insomniac (See: M-III, following M-II ;D). If he's scum, he can probably "out-debate" me - and there's not a lot I can do about it.
Further to that point, what if he's town as well? Do the IC's open the next day saying "Well Galz wasn't scum, so Robz must be" - or do they put it up to another debate?
I think that while, on the surface it might be 50/50, you're actually changing the nature of the game to take away information analysis, and in it's place those who are stronger orators will prevail - for whichever alignment they are on.
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I still disagree, but can't really argue my point any better than I already have and your post certainly made sense so moving on I guess. I'd like SfS, Jimmmm and shraeye to comment on this also though.
At least this discussion means I had some contributions day 1, going to sleeps soon.
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Vote Count 1.1:
Captain_Frisk (1): Insomniac
Insomniac (1): Captain_Frisk
Not voting (6): Eevee, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
Note, day starts and vote counts are linked in Post #1.
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I'm off to sleeps, will be back on in ~10 hours but as I said, pretty much only from mobile.
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Vote Count 1.1:
Captain_Frisk (1): Insomniac
Insomniac (1): Captain_Frisk
Not voting (6): Eevee, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
A note on ties. If there is a tie at the end of the day, the player lynched will be the one with the most unique votes, as counted by the Mods. Mods will keep track of all votes to tally unique votes. Multiple votes by one player will not be counted as unique. The maximum number of unique votes is also 8, if one self-votes. Unique votes cannot be unvoted. An example follows:
Player A votes for B. C votes for B. B votes for C. The vote count would be:
B (2): A, C
C (1): B
B has 2 unique votes. C has 1 unique vote.
Later, Player A votes for C. The vote count changes:
B (1): C
C (2): B, A
B and C now both have 2 unique votes.
D and F vote for B; E votes for C. The day ends in a tie:
B (3): C, D, F
C (3): B, A, E
B has 4 unique votes (A, C, D, F) while C has 3 (B, A, E). B is lynched.
PM or bold questions if you have any. But really, just be sure to lynch by the deadline. Also, the two votes in 1.1 do not count toward the unique count, as they have been deemed RVS. All further votes will count toward the unique vote count, including self-votes.
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"Sucks for Insomniac and Frisk, this is sure to be contentiously debated" is what I was going to say right up until your end disclaimer. Good call on that.
But what happens if there is also a tie in unique votes?
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And you might just want to completely reset the votes to nothing, or else Insomniac and Frisk both have real votes against them, but 0 unique votes, which might become problematic.
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They are welcome to unvote. If they want them to be counted as unique votes, they need to re-vote. We're keeping close track--there are three of us.
If unique votes are also a tie, I might have to extend the day, or flip a coin.
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@Eevee, first thing I want you to do when you read this thread again. As soon as you read this post, before looking at anything else. Please clarify this post of yours in fresh words (no quoting any posts except this one).
I call Ins+Galzria scum team.
"whoops! We lynched a townie? Guess the IC was wrong..." makes no sense, I was asking people to choose the IC they'll be sheeping specificifally so that that wouldn't happen!
But that's EXACTLY what will happen if the first lynch is town. The only reason you'll have for having lynched that person is "My IC told me to".
That is correct. Really think this through though, please. I'd at least like to be convinced I'm wrong.
Some things I'd love for you to cover: specifically what that Galz said is correct? What do you want Galz to think through? What does the third sentence mean?
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2nd task (this one's for everyone!)
There's a scumslip somewhere in posts 60-79, I am convinced. Read all those posts carefully. If you have found it, tell me what it is. Don't tell me what you think I think it is. This isn't a game of "first correct guess wins towny points"
"I think you are wrong" is a legitimate answer. Avoid commenting on the veracity other people's answers until at least 4 non-ICs have given theirs.
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2nd task (this one's for everyone!)
There's a scumslip somewhere in posts 60-79, I am convinced. Read all those posts carefully. If you have found it, tell me what it is. Don't tell me what you think I think it is. This isn't a game of "first correct guess wins towny points"
"I think you are wrong" is a legitimate answer. Avoid commenting on the veracity other people's answers until at least 4 non-ICs have given theirs.
Naw, let's make it 5 of the 6 non-ICs. I'm trying to balance receiving the answers without too much outside influence with not holding up discussion badly (keep up any other discussions by all means, just quote the above post when answering).
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Also, I know exactly what I think about the ideas of how to use the ICs. I think I have read at least one opinion that matches how I'd want to use an IC. I'll post more about this in the morning.
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I'm awake, and getting caught up.
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I just reread 60-79, and I don't see a scum slip, but I'm not so good at this.
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I didnt miss much while sleeping.
Dont see a scum slip either.
Frist sentence said "that is true but also doesn't really matter in the big picture". It's like saying "we shouldn't lynch at all day 1, we always just hit town". While first part is too, it doesnt really lead to second part.
I would have liked Galzria to read through my posts carefully and really give my idea a fair chance. I felt he ignored a fair amount of my points. Third sentence is just what it is, I feel my idea was problem and ideally I would have liked to see it implemented or someone to convince me why we shouldn't implement it.
I fear shraeye thinks he has found a scum slip in a post of mine and if that's the case, I'm as good as dead because changing shraeye's mind is hard. The more I've thought about this, the more a creeping suspicion that Galz is indeed scum has risen. I suspect Robz too, but less so than Galzria.
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Shraeye, why are you even providing reads? Doesn't this mess up your theory?
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I meant eevee
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Ok - @eevee - this is my last post on the subject.
I don't trust shraeyes reads over my own because I have more information than shraeye / jimm do.
I KNOW THAT I'M TOWN. I also know that shraeye and jimm are town, but everyone knows that.
Your ridiculous proposition sounds like something that could be cooked up in daychat.
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i feel like no one even read my idea.
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Starting this after #97.
Well first, I'm bummed that we moved out of the jokey RVS stage so quickly, cause that's MY favorite part of the game. Robz, I'm surprised you agreed to play, as the setup was guaranteed to reduce your percentage of PR's. FoS: Eevee, for suggesting that we defer to ICs, in a game with Shraeye in it (though Arch is not here, so you'll take less heat. Did you not read ZM3?). Vote: Jim (I'll be shortening it, unless he objects), for lurking. Note to mods, vote was not boldfaced.
/RVS for SFS
@Shraeye - I've looked at 60 through 79 fairly closely, and I don't see a scumslip, but that may be because the whole Eevee suggestion, and subsequent talk of it, has become a miasma to me. I'll go back and look at it again once again when I can do it with a fresh eye. I do think that there is a wealth of material there to use in some fashion.
Eevee, if I've understood you correctly, I agree with you in theory, if we were playing a regular game, where deadline pressure forces either a lynch by majority, or a no-lynch by default. You are not arguing for any change in the way we approach D1 (talk, analyze, quote, argue, look for scumslips, get positions on record, etc.), just a general agreement to vote with a (pre-announced) IC, which would (again, if I've understood you correctly) give us a 50:50 chance to lynch scum on D1. However, we are in Blitz format, where a single vote could create a lynch. (I acknowledge that if everyone agreed to the plan and sheeped the same IC, we would get a majority lynch.) I'd like to continue to discuss this, because I believe the idea may have serious merit on its own (as well as providing analyzable discussion), but I strongly believe we need to keep the lynch plurality situation in mind when analyzing the idea's worth. I've attempted to start one of those "here are all the possibilities" trees, but I'm just not up to it right now. So, some general questions:
1) What if the players split evenly between the ICs, and follow the plan (sheep "their" IC unless it means self-voting)? This may be unlikely (given the previous argument about Jim's lack of experience) but could result in a tie. I was worried about ties in ZM2, because I apparently interpreted some language different than the mod did, and was NOT worried about ties in ZM3, because the tie-breaker, if used, would have made votes public. Here we have a new system, and (without yet giving it much analysis) worry about it being gamed by scum.
2) What if the players split unevenly amongst the ICs, and follow the plan (sheep "their" IC unless it means self-voting)? A tie would not be possible, but do we rob ourselves of information (or serve ourselves wine) with the non-lynch wagon?
3) Repeat questions 1 and 2, but replace the words "follow the plan" with "don't follow the plan". What if someone really doesn't agree with "their" IC? Do they simply not vote? (and are they then liars, if they had previously agreed to follow the plan?) Is that a clever play for mafia, since we talk about lynching liars but we never do?
I get that if everyone agrees, we are guaranteed to have an IC determine who gets lynched. But does that make a wagon easier to analyze, or harder? Does the answer to that question change depending on the alignment of the lynchee?
Going back to look at 60-79 again. I'd like to hear from Jim.
PPE: 2 new
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I'm caught up, and going for a swim.
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The best part of this gaem, you can pick a scum trio and be guaranteed to be at least 1/3 correct.
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Unvote to avoid any RVS confusion.
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i feel like no one even read my idea.
I read it, understood it, disliked it. Here is my response that I typed last night:
________
@eevee, multiple times you propose that scum will have no business deciding the votes if everyone agrees to sheep (for example) me. I disagree. If that is the case than scum only needs to convince one person (me) to believe them and they have created a mislynch. I demand that everyone take responsability for their own vote. If you, Eevee, are scum, you'll have to convince everyone of your case and arguments. Do not hide behind the veil of following me.
I am very aware that, as Insomniac said, that I am the least equipped to sort out all the cases that are being made. Mafia members at this point have perfect information, any VTs know that they are only looking for 3 scum in 5 (or 2 town in 5, if that's an easier read for people to focus on--speaking of, what if this is the best way for all mafia games to go? instead of jumping on somebody for a scumslip, find the person who has given the least people townvibes). However, I am searching for 3 scum in 6 players. So while y'all can trust that any case I make or state comes with no ulterior motive, y'all cannot expect that my reads as an IC are inherently better than others. That is simply false.
Again, @Eevee, I see that you are trying very hard to make this point. I have noticed that you have said some variation on "this method will deprive scum of the chance to decide our lynch" multiple times.
It's about depriving scum of a chance to decide ANYTHING.
My method ensures scum has no business deciding ANY lynches.
Scum can't nightkill here, all we have is lynches. And my plan would make scum manipulating them impossible. It would make scum powerless
On top of not having a night kill, scum has no control over the lynch! That's all there is to it.
Did you feel like this point was just being ignored by everyone? Do you think my explanation in the first paragraph addresses this well enough?
Here's how I feel ICs should be used. Sparingly. No but seriously, we are players in this game, who also are scrambling for reads just like the VTs. But, our reads may not be accurate; such is life. It is a bad town play to stake one's fate on the accuracy of my reads. What one CAN do is know that my opinions don't come with any ulterior motive. If I defend somebody nobody needs to say "ohhhh that looks like buddying, let me increase my scum read on original target and also add the defender", it means that I found their action legitimately defensible. That allows one to objectively reevaluate their reads on people. So I can prevent tunnelling, when I think it is unwarrented, neato.
Another thing that makes my reading easier, is I have no qualms about anything I write or type. Sometimes even as VT in games, I find myself editing out statements because I think they'll be perceived as really scummy and will mislead the town. Not having to worry about my image lets me focus entirely on the images of the 6 unconfirmed.
Another thing I'll do from time to time is post tasks for various players, as I already have. Do those tasks. Do them immediately and without question. They are done for the benefit of town, and to help strengthen my reads. Some of these things are things I could never ask people to do in a real mafia game, because everyone would stop and say, "wait, you want US to find a scumslip you claimed to have found???" Yeah I do; don't question it, just do it.
(@Jimmmmmm, you should do things like this as well. If you find something that looks really fabricated, ask the offending party to explain it using different words. If you find something that feels genuine you can do the same. Or come up with your own tasks. If you can think of something it would be hard for scum and easy for town to do, demand that it is done. Ask a hypothetical scenario between various people. It is our job to help town lynch wisely. We can do this in so many other ways than simply making a researched case on someone and trying to convince people to agree with us. Be creative, the more town gets to use, the more accurate their reads will become.)
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Also, at another post that you had on Galzria, Eevee.
Saying "this setup favors scum" and "we don't want to make it a 50-50 chance*" is pretty contradictory don't you think?
Those aren't so contradictory. I would not want to do things completely randomly if the best result was 50-50. I think the setup favors scum in some ways, but I'm convinced that if I were VT I could win more than 50% of the time. I would never want to leave things up to complete chance, if I could somehow influence the likelihood of a positive outcome.
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Also, at another post that you had on Galzria, Eevee.
Saying "this setup favors scum" and "we don't want to make it a 50-50 chance*" is pretty contradictory don't you think?
Those aren't so contradictory. I would not want to do things completely randomly if the best result was 50-50. I think the setup favors scum in some ways, but I'm convinced that if I were VT I could win more than 50% of the time. I would never want to leave things up to complete chance, if I could somehow influence the likelihood of a positive outcome.
If we vote randomly, but exclude me, town has a > 50% chance to win. I think we should do that. [semi-kidding]
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Tabulating results on my 2nd task (dooo this thing)
Frisk: "doesn't see scumslip"
Eevee: "doesn't see it either"
SFS: Check again please, you have the advantage of not being anywhere in those posts, so it should be easier for you
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I just dragged myself out of bed, and I have had no coffee, so you'll forgive me if my head isn't at it's clearest, but I've flipped back through that post set and I don't see anything that stands out. I disagree with Eevee, and I don't think he understands why I think his proposed system is faulty, but I don't see any scumslips from anybody there - although given that 3 other people posted in that section, one of them at least must be scum, so I suppose I'll go back and reread their posts again when I'm more awake. Perhaps there is something I'm not seeing.
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Should we vote jimmmmm for lurking?
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Hi guys.
Just to say a bit about myself and explain my apparent 'lurking'. I was working all day today. Seriously, started at 5:30am, finished at 11am, then started at 1pm and finished at 6pm, THEN had to go rock climbing from 7pm (way too tired to actually climb so I just belayed). It's now 1:30am and I've just gotten home. The good news from all this is that I've quit my early morning job, so no more 5:30 starts for me! :D
Now, some housekeeping.
(how many m's?)
Well, normally 1. On iso and f.ds, officially 5. However I'll accept any number (well, integer) that's at least 1 and preferably strictly less than infinity.
He's a total new guy (girl? let us know if you care about that)
My name would tend to suggest that I'm a guy; I haven't met many female Jims. Or Jimmmmms. However, if you choose to believe I am a girl, I'm not terribly uncomfortable with it.
Jim (no offense) is the most likely person here to be wrong (especially in this setup).
None taken.
Now my first impression for this game is that Eevee has really come out of the blocks to set himself up as Town, imploring everyone to do what he says is best for the Town. Which means, if nothing else, that what he says needs a bit of analysis.
Imagine Eeevee is actually Mafia. He's promised to follow shraeye's vote. I think one thing that does is make it hard for shraeye to vote for Eevee, since he effectively gets a double vote if he votes for anyone else. But if Eevee is Mafia, that gives them a 3/5 chance of putting two votes on a Townie.
Now, let's assume that what he says has some truth, that ICs do hold some power. Say we vote first and others base their votes to some degree on what we vote. If we both vote for Townies, then it is quite a simple task for the Mafia to turn that into a majority. If we both vote for Mafia, then maybe the Mafia is struggling, but not as much as the Town in the first case. Now say we vote differently, one for a Townie and one for a Mafia. If shraeye is the one who votes Town, then Eevee will follow, and the other two Mafia can maybe back and forth a little, throw in a random vote, then finally settle on following Eevee's following of shraeye. Then they have 4, and the vote's almost theirs. (They may also be hoping that I, as a Newbie, decide that the best course of action is to also follow shraeye's vote.) Obviously if I'm the one who votes Town it's a bit more difficult for them, since Eevee has to vote with shraeye to avoid suspicion, but the other two Mafia can jump on my vote, giving them an advantage. If he needs to, Eevee can come up with some excuse and jump ship to secure the vote.
So, I don't know, it seems like there could be a little scheming afoot. For now, I think I'm going to Vote: Eevee, and see what his response is, and let him explain how wrong I am.
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+1 jimmmmmmm
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@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
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@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
Ha - I missed that when I made my joke about voting jimmm for lurking.
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@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
Ha - I missed that when I made my joke about voting jimmm for lurking.
Was aware you were joking, SFS is not.
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@Insom
Are you saying that you are sure SFS wasn't joking when he "voted" jimmmm?
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Looks like a joke to me... he intentionally didn't bold it.
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He also put it in his "RVS" section...
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Well, that's more people jumping at Insom's statement than I feel comfortable with.
Vote: Galzria
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Also, I'm not Mafia. Promise! (Most people believe me I must be pretty good at this...)
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I mean, I've always treated SFS as an IC, and he burned me with that feeling last blitz game, but I really don't take that unbolded (noted as such by him), "RVS" vote as anything more than him messing around having fun. Certainly not worth casting a real "unique" vote on him over it...
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I missed the /rvs portion, however rvs doesn't excuse it. And you don't defend a vote that you intend as a joke, he said vote jim for lurking but hey i didn't bold it so people won't get mad at me.
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Well, that's more people jumping at Insom's statement than I feel comfortable with.
Vote: Galzria
I'm not jumping at Insomniac's statement, I'm just pointing out that I think he misinterpreted SFS. I don't think he's doing it maliciously, although I guess he could be?
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lol at accusing SfS for the jimm-vote.
my top 2 scum reads are Galzria and SfS fwiw.
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Also - i think we're getting a little crazy with the unique vote thing. If we can't settle on a target with 2 confirmed townies... well then we deserve to lose.
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lol at accusing SfS for the jimm-vote.
my top 2 scum reads are Galzria and SfS fwiw.
Would you mind explaining your scum read on me?
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Also - i think we're getting a little crazy with the unique vote thing. If we can't settle on a target with 2 confirmed townies... well then we deserve to lose.
Agreed. You all should vote for your top scumread now. It takes 5 to lynch, so be careful with how much votes stack up. I don't want this exercise to turn into the lynch, just to impactfully influence further discussion.
Unique votes have meaning, so even this "vote for discussion" will have meaning I feel. But they don't have so much meaning that people should be holding off on voting.
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lol at accusing SfS for the jimm-vote.
my top 2 scum reads are Galzria and SfS fwiw.
Would you mind explaining your scum read on me?
Very interested in this explanation as well.
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@Robz
Give me two scum candidates. Ranked or unranked.
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lol at accusing SfS for the jimm-vote.
my top 2 scum reads are Galzria and SfS fwiw.
Everyone else whats to know why you suspect Galz. I want to know why you tear down my suspicion of SfS and follow it up by saying he's a top scumread
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his joke vote for jimm is not a valid reason
for suspicion. his long post felt to me like his long posts in last blitz games felt. remember, I knew he was scum for the entire game there and was reading.
i think galzria has been orchestrating directing suspicion to me in the daychat. I think town galz wouldn't dodge the good things about my idea like he has (I might be wrong, since everyone else thinks my idea was terrible, it probably was then...). either way, I felt Galzria avoided taking positions regarding my alignment during our discussions, which felt like an effort to feel out what IC's and townies feel about me before starting to drink the lynch.
getting online to post will be harder and harder from now on. vote: Galzria though
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
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his joke vote for jimm is not a valid reason
for suspicion. his long post felt to me like his long posts in last blitz games felt. remember, I knew he was scum for the entire game there and was reading.
i think galzria has been orchestrating directing suspicion to me in the daychat. I think town galz wouldn't dodge the good things about my idea like he has (I might be wrong, since everyone else thinks my idea was terrible, it probably was then...). either way, I felt Galzria avoided taking positions regarding my alignment during our discussions, which felt like an effort to feel out what IC's and townies feel about me before starting to drink the lynch.
getting online to post will be harder and harder from now on. vote: Galzria though
You know who else read that entire game knowing SFS's alignment? The mod. Oh hey that was me
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I'm off to bed, guys. I might be back on in the morning before the lynch, but no promises. I'm going to stick with my vote. Good luck (to the Townies)!
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I'm off to bed, guys. I might be back on in the morning before the lynch, but no promises. I'm going to stick with my vote. Good luck (to the Townies)!
Uhoh. What time zone are you in buddy?
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When is the deadline, how many hours away?
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It's currently about 3:30am, so 2 hours ahead of forum time.
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Wow. Caught up. Shraeye, I'm gonna get to 60-79, but first things first.
I find this (103):
Unvote to avoid any RVS confusion.
followed by this (109):
Should we vote jimmmmm for lurking?
followed by this (112):
@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
to feel a WHOLE lot like daychat-plotted scheming, irrespective of the vote on me. Plus, it's a great play for mafia to make, cause if I vote for either one of them now that they feel scummy, my vote is either dismissable as OMGUS, or inflicts less damage as simple WIFOM.
FoS: Frisk and Insom for this
As to the vote on me, read the post where I "voted" for Jim:
Starting this after #97.
Well first, I'm bummed that we moved out of the jokey RVS stage so quickly, cause that's MY favorite part of the game. Robz, I'm surprised you agreed to play, as the setup was guaranteed to reduce your percentage of PR's. FoS: Eevee, for suggesting that we defer to ICs, in a game with Shraeye in it (though Arch is not here, so you'll take less heat. Did you not read ZM3?). Vote: Jim (I'll be shortening it, unless he objects), for lurking. Note to mods, vote was not boldfaced.
/RVS for SFS
@Shraeye - I've looked at 60 through 79 fairly closely, and I don't see a scumslip, but that may be because the whole Eevee suggestion, and subsequent talk of it, has become a miasma to me. I'll go back and look at it again once again when I can do it with a fresh eye. I do think that there is a wealth of material there to use in some fashion.
-snip-
I SIGNPOSTED that RVS for me is jokey. I joked with Robz, he clearly plays every game. I joked at Eevee, cause he's where I was in ZM3, taking heat for suggesting that IC can be a resource. I joked at Shraeye for throwing the heat. I joked at a player not in this game. Then suddenly, I for real voted for Jim?????????????? Then I went back to joking with the mods. Then I SIGNPOSTED that my joking was over - that my little RVS was done. Are you for real?
PPE 7 new
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My top scum reads are actually Robz and Insomniac, in that order.
For Robz, I felt like his delay in getting to the thread was a LITTLE suspicious given how active he is, but more than that I felt like when he came in he parroted what I was saying about the problems with Eevee's proposal almost word-for-word. He may actually believe what he wrote, but it really came across as an attempt to saddle up along side me. It was apparent that most people were siding against Eevee on the issue (unsurprisingly - Eevee, I haven't ignored you, I simply think you're wrong.), and it seemed to me like scum!Robz wouldn't want to go against the grain there. Not to mention that Robz knows that if he can get my support behind him it'll be difficult to convince a majority to lynch him.
I don't know. It's not enough to plunk down a vote, but it made me uncomfortable.
Insomniac I got weird vibes from last night because he appeared to offer half-hearted counters to Eevee, using only numbers to back himself ("I know that I'm town so mathematically I have a 60% to lynch scum. IC's only have 50%"). His math is certainly correct, of course, but it felt to me like he was missing the larger point of lost information, and it felt like he was trying to take the "safe" argument, waiting until more people weighed in before really strongly choosing a side.
It just felt... Off. But it didn't feel as unnatural as Robz buddying did. What I mean by that is that I see town!Insomniac acting the way he did more often than I see town!Robz acting the way that HE did.
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
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When is the deadline, how many hours away?
At the time of this post, 9 hours and 15 minutes, give or take a minute or two.
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Galz - what do you make of the fact that one of our ICs is voting for Eevee and is possibly unlikely to change their vote today?
pPE - you've already answered this apparently
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
If you then read me as town, you must then assume that SFS is the final cylon?
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
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My top scum reads are actually Robz and Insomniac, in that order.
For Robz, I felt like his delay in getting to the thread was a LITTLE suspicious given how active he is, but more than that I felt like when he came in he parroted what I was saying about the problems with Eevee's proposal almost word-for-word. He may actually believe what he wrote, but it really came across as an attempt to saddle up along side me. It was apparent that most people were siding against Eevee on the issue (unsurprisingly - Eevee, I haven't ignored you, I simply think you're wrong.), and it seemed to me like scum!Robz wouldn't want to go against the grain there. Not to mention that Robz knows that if he can get my support behind him it'll be difficult to convince a majority to lynch him.
I don't know. It's not enough to plunk down a vote, but it made me uncomfortable.
Insomniac I got weird vibes from last night because he appeared to offer half-hearted counters to Eevee, using only numbers to back himself ("I know that I'm town so mathematically I have a 60% to lynch scum. IC's only have 50%"). His math is certainly correct, of course, but it felt to me like he was missing the larger point of lost information, and it felt like he was trying to take the "safe" argument, waiting until more people weighed in before really strongly choosing a side.
It just felt... Off. But it didn't feel as unnatural as Robz buddying did. What I mean by that is that I see town!Insomniac acting the way he did more often than I see town!Robz acting the way that HE did.
Interesting, I use numbers like normal Insom and I'm scummy. No I disagreed with Eevee because his idea was bad. That said you are completey ignoring the part where he suggests we continue to play as normal but we only officially vote for who our ic votes for in other words we have actions and cases we build that make evidence but we are only allowed to officially vote with our ic. So the information loss is not huge but still existant. I'm starting to wonder if you DID read Eevee's idea thoroughly enough or not.
Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
Who said scum had to set up to be on both sides of the argument, its feasable Eevee made a bad suggestion without running it by their QT and then they posted their true feelings here as they are trying to hide in the sea of town.
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
If you then read me as town, you must then assume that SFS is the final cylon?
That's leading Frisk. I did NOT say I read you as town. I said Robz/Ins were my top scum reads right now. Between you and SFS, I'm not sure. You seem as Snarky as always, and SFS reads IC as always (note: this feeling about him bit me in the posterior last blitz game). Neither attitudes or playsyles then read particularly scummy or townie to me one way or another compared to how I normally read you two.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
This question gives me heartburn. I'm thinking that the eevee bad theory is something being co-ordinated from daychat.
I could see Galz being one of the buddies, so not him.
I could see Insomniac + SFS being buddies, and the insomniac snap @ SFS as planned ploy.
I guess POE would say RobZ, but he's lurking.
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
If you then read me as town, you must then assume that SFS is the final cylon?
That's leading Frisk. I did NOT say I read you as town. I said Robz/Ins were my top scum reads right now. Between you and SFS, I'm not sure. You seem as Snarky as always, and SFS reads IC as always (note: this feeling about him bit me in the posterior last blitz game). Neither attitudes or playsyles then read particularly scummy or townie to me one way or another compared to how I normally read you two.
Well, I know that I'm town. If you clear Eevee and yourself, then you're basically calling a scum trio from my perspective.
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SfS doesn't read his usual ic self to me here. I feel better about Galzria now, but I'm worried it's because he said he things I'm town like I wished he would.
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My top scum reads are actually Robz and Insomniac, in that order.
For Robz, I felt like his delay in getting to the thread was a LITTLE suspicious given how active he is, but more than that I felt like when he came in he parroted what I was saying about the problems with Eevee's proposal almost word-for-word. He may actually believe what he wrote, but it really came across as an attempt to saddle up along side me. It was apparent that most people were siding against Eevee on the issue (unsurprisingly - Eevee, I haven't ignored you, I simply think you're wrong.), and it seemed to me like scum!Robz wouldn't want to go against the grain there. Not to mention that Robz knows that if he can get my support behind him it'll be difficult to convince a majority to lynch him.
I don't know. It's not enough to plunk down a vote, but it made me uncomfortable.
Insomniac I got weird vibes from last night because he appeared to offer half-hearted counters to Eevee, using only numbers to back himself ("I know that I'm town so mathematically I have a 60% to lynch scum. IC's only have 50%"). His math is certainly correct, of course, but it felt to me like he was missing the larger point of lost information, and it felt like he was trying to take the "safe" argument, waiting until more people weighed in before really strongly choosing a side.
It just felt... Off. But it didn't feel as unnatural as Robz buddying did. What I mean by that is that I see town!Insomniac acting the way he did more often than I see town!Robz acting the way that HE did.
Interesting, I use numbers like normal Insom and I'm scummy. No I disagreed with Eevee because his idea was bad. That said you are completey ignoring the part where he suggests we continue to play as normal but we only officially vote for who our ic votes for in other words we have actions and cases we build that make evidence but we are only allowed to officially vote with our ic. So the information loss is not huge but still existant. I'm starting to wonder if you DID read Eevee's idea thoroughly enough or not.
Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
Who said scum had to set up to be on both sides of the argument, its feasable Eevee made a bad suggestion without running it by their QT and then they posted their true feelings here as they are trying to hide in the sea of town.
I responded directly to the point you bring up as apparently my having ignored here:
The thing is Eevee, I see what you're driving for, but I think you're not understanding the value of the lost information. You simply cannot "recreate" or "psydocreate" the same feelings of scummy vs not-scummy behavior without real votes and stances and arguments that lead somewhere. "I would vote X" is such an easy thing to fake.
Further, while your premise that "in a vacuum, IC's would have a 50% chance"is accurate, we are not in a vacuum. And I think that what your suggestion boils down to is "Let's have the two sides debate, and the IC's pick the winner". It doesn't account for the fact that you're essentially turning the game into a straight oratorical contest, rather than what's scummy and what's not.
Robz is probably a better orator than I am. He likes to claim he's better than Insomniac (See: M-III, following M-II ;D). If he's scum, he can probably "out-debate" me - and there's not a lot I can do about it.
Further to that point, what if he's town as well? Do the IC's open the next day saying "Well Galz wasn't scum, so Robz must be" - or do they put it up to another debate?
I think that while, on the surface it might be 50/50, you're actually changing the nature of the game to take away information analysis, and in it's place those who are stronger orators will prevail - for whichever alignment they are on.
Apparently you ignored it.
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Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
If you then read me as town, you must then assume that SFS is the final cylon?
That's leading Frisk. I did NOT say I read you as town. I said Robz/Ins were my top scum reads right now. Between you and SFS, I'm not sure. You seem as Snarky as always, and SFS reads IC as always (note: this feeling about him bit me in the posterior last blitz game). Neither attitudes or playsyles then read particularly scummy or townie to me one way or another compared to how I normally read you two.
Well, I know that I'm town. If you clear Eevee and yourself, then you're basically calling a scum trio from my perspective.
I don't have the luxury of sharing your perspective, and I think SFS's "perspective" would likely differ. ;)
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Who ignored which argument when is a terrible avenue for scumhunting, in my opinion. It's tough to follow the intricacies of what everyone says. I had a tough time following it and have read over things about 3 times already. Seeing who forgets details and arguments isn't how we're going to catch scum, because people can do it very easily without malicious intent.
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This game is fascinating.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
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Just got back, will look for the scumslip in a minute.
@Robz
Give me two scum candidates. Ranked or unranked.
SFS and Eevee. And actually, I will Vote: SFS
I HATE when people try to restart RVS when we've already moved out of RVS. This is doubly true in Blitz mafia, where we only have 24 hours to lynch somebody. It's something I think scum does--the awkward interjection of humor early on, when it's not called for, due to discomfort with being scum. I could definitely see SFS doing it.
Eevee's argument is so wrong, and it's been explained to him why it's wrong by every player (except SFS! interesting), including the ICs. I can't think of a reason why town Eevee would cling to the argument, but there could be a scum-Eevee reason to do so that I just haven't thought of.
Will look for the scumslip.
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Just got back, will look for the scumslip in a minute.
@Robz
Give me two scum candidates. Ranked or unranked.
SFS and Eevee. And actually, I will Vote: SFS
I HATE when people try to restart RVS when we've already moved out of RVS. This is doubly true in Blitz mafia, where we only have 24 hours to lynch somebody. It's something I think scum does--the awkward interjection of humor early on, when it's not called for, due to discomfort with being scum. I could definitely see SFS doing it.
Eevee's argument is so wrong, and it's been explained to him why it's wrong by every player (except SFS! interesting), including the ICs. I can't think of a reason why town Eevee would cling to the argument, but there could be a scum-Eevee reason to do so that I just haven't thought of.
Will look for the scumslip.
RobZ - why would you choose SFS over Eevee when our IC is voting Eevee?
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
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Just got back, will look for the scumslip in a minute.
@Robz
Give me two scum candidates. Ranked or unranked.
SFS and Eevee. And actually, I will Vote: SFS
I HATE when people try to restart RVS when we've already moved out of RVS. This is doubly true in Blitz mafia, where we only have 24 hours to lynch somebody. It's something I think scum does--the awkward interjection of humor early on, when it's not called for, due to discomfort with being scum. I could definitely see SFS doing it.
Eevee's argument is so wrong, and it's been explained to him why it's wrong by every player (except SFS! interesting), including the ICs. I can't think of a reason why town Eevee would cling to the argument, but there could be a scum-Eevee reason to do so that I just haven't thought of.
Will look for the scumslip.
RobZ - why would you choose SFS over Eevee when our IC is voting Eevee?
Because, as my argument should make clear, I think SFS is more likely mafia than Eevee. That was my scumspects in order, if I didn't make that clear.
SFS may very well not be my final vote, and I could be persuaded to ultimately go for Eevee (or someone else, we have time still), but for the moment I am allowed to try to convince the ICs I'm right, not them.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
Why would you be afraid of making a scumslip, if you're not scum?
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
Why would you be afraid of making a scumslip, if you're not scum?
Because shraeye might incorrectly identify me as scum and toss the game tunnelling in on me?
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
Hey hey hey, not fair to call me a lurker. I do not wake up early--that's my lifestyle. I seldom post before 11:00 AM in any forum thread, and I was running late today. Last night, I was posting, but nobody else was around. shraeye didn't appear until I had gone to bed.
On Eevee, why do you think scum Eevee tries to blend in? The only experience I can think of with scum Eevee is MIII, and that was SO long ago.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
Why would you be afraid of making a scumslip, if you're not scum?
Because shraeye might incorrectly identify me as scum and toss the game tunnelling in on me?
Scum Frisk makes scumslips though. So you shouldn't be worried about that if you're town, as you insist, right? I hardly think there's going to be a really obvious scumslip buried in those posts that incriminates you (or anyone) since none of us can find it.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
Hey hey hey, not fair to call me a lurker. I do not wake up early--that's my lifestyle. I seldom post before 11:00 AM in any forum thread, and I was running late today. Last night, I was posting, but nobody else was around. shraeye didn't appear until I had gone to bed.
On Eevee, why do you think scum Eevee tries to blend in? The only experience I can think of with scum Eevee is MIII, and that was SO long ago.
RMM3 if I remember correctly he tended to go with the flow of what was happening
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Oh and the lurking was a bit to do with last night and this morning, you hadn't posted much yet this game and it did take you a while to come in here even though you were online when the game started.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
I agree with you sharing the SFS case later, just give us enough time before deadline to analyze it.
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
Why would you be afraid of making a scumslip, if you're not scum?
Because shraeye might incorrectly identify me as scum and toss the game tunnelling in on me?
Scum Frisk makes scumslips though. So you shouldn't be worried about that if you're town, as you insist, right? I hardly think there's going to be a really obvious scumslip buried in those posts that incriminates you (or anyone) since none of us can find it.
I'm pretty sure that I've made "scumslips" as town as well, although none as good as my 0% chance of flipping town.
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Vote Count 1.2:
Eevee (1, u1): Jimmmmm
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Insomniac, Robz888
Galzria (2, u2): shraeye, Eevee
Not voting (3): Galzria, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Captain_Frisk
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
(X, uY) notation means "this person has X votes on them currently, and Y unique votes so far."
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Hah, i literally just did a votecount and was about to post this for town :)
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@voltgloss, small detail about the unique votes, will they carry over to the next day as well?
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Is this shraeye's phantom scumslip?
In reality it will obviously be all but random, and scum not being able to choose who they vote will make daychat a lot less useful.
The reason it could be construed as a scumslip, I guess, is that it's really, really, wrong. I imagine daychat is probably super useful, they can vet whatever they want to say with each other first. So daychat strikes me as a great thing for scum, even if they abdicate their votes to ICs.
Eevee trying to downplay the usefulness of daychat, if we agreed to his plan, is that the intended slip?
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@voltgloss, small detail about the unique votes, will they carry over to the next day as well?
I would expect not, but ashersky's word is law on that.
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And, everyone disappeared. Did I succeed in spotting the scumslip?
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I don't know? It didn't look like one to me
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Am still here.
@SFS: Do YOU know what I think your scum tell is?
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It still makes no sense to say, though. (re: Eevee and scum daychat)
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I'm still waiting for SFS to give me two scum reads, and the one other person he's most certain is town.
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It still makes no sense to say, though. (re: Eevee and scum daychat)
Day chat is an advantage for scum.
The ICs are an advantage for town.
Town has the option to play full random and win with 50% probability. Whether you think that makes sense depends on which advantage you think is bigger.
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It still makes no sense to say, though. (re: Eevee and scum daychat)
Day chat is an advantage for scum.
The ICs are an advantage for town.
Town has the option to play full random and win with 50% probability. Whether you think that makes sense depends on which advantage you think is bigger.
8 Man Setup with 3/3 is an advantage to scum.
No NK is an advantage for town
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I'm still waiting for SFS to give me two scum reads, and the one other person he's most certain is town.
Maybe he's clearing his answers with his scumbuddies, first.
I don't think I answered the second part, I don't remember you asking me to. But anyway, Galz looks like the same Galz from Day 1 of M-XIV to me, and that was a town Galz. So I would say Galz at the moment.
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I'm still waiting for SFS to give me two scum reads, and the one other person he's most certain is town.
Maybe he's clearing his answers with his scumbuddies, first.
I don't think I answered the second part, I don't remember you asking me to. But anyway, Galz looks like the same Galz from Day 1 of M-XIV to me, and that was a town Galz. So I would say Galz at the moment.
You think he's buddying up to his biggest scumread? Which is actually a townie?
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Who thinks who is buddying up to whom?? Could you clarify with names, Insom?
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I'm still waiting for SFS to give me two scum reads, and the one other person he's most certain is town.
Maybe he's clearing his answers with his scumbuddies, first.
I don't think I answered the second part, I don't remember you asking me to. But anyway, Galz looks like the same Galz from Day 1 of M-XIV to me, and that was a town Galz. So I would say Galz at the moment.
You think he's buddying up to his biggest scumread? Which is actually a townie?
Who is the "you" and who is the "he's" ??
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Who thinks who is buddying up to whom?? Could you clarify with names, Insom?
It's a joke, in MXIV Galz played a strategy where he went after his biggest town reads, and buddied up to his scum reads hoping they'd let him survive until the end so he could flip the table. At the end of the game his biggest scum read was also town. So he had been buddying up to town.
Robz said Galz looks like MXIV Galz so I asked if thats what he meant.
@Robz You=Robz, He=Galz. It makes sense because I was responding to you and had the quote and everything! Context!
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starting after 158.
@Shraeye: Looking at 60-79, in chronological order:
60 looks straightforward, and is early for a slip. (I tend to suspect slips by comparing to previous posts, this is the 1st in the section you wanted examined).
61 could be read as a correction of the word "random" in 60. The reference to daychat is interesting. Is daychat on his mind?
62 quotes 59, and supports the point Galz was trying to make about Eevee's plan essentially abdicating responsibility for player's votes. I can't parse the "makes no sense" part that was in 59 originally, so I don't know.
63 acknowledges a Galz assertion, with a sense of "yes, and that would be bad, but look at the next step", and an appeal to logic (and maybe a little emotion).
64 makes a logical argument, but also calls up the idea of a majority lynch, when we are in a plurality situation.
65 asks for agreement or disagreement on two of Eevee's prior assertions.
66 corrects a math error.
67 argues against the Eevee plan.
68 doesn't quite answer 65, and has a weird capital "A" in the middle of a sentence. We all know what that means.
69 is a throw-away (with maybe a tiny bit of AtE)
70 makes a fairly obvious point.
71 is snarky, but is a direct response to 69
72 you've sort of already addressed, and seems like an honest re-iteration of Eevee's view of the plan.
73 makes another point in favor of the Eevee plan.
74 draws attention to agreement between players.
75 puts Frisk in the category of players he didn't add himself to in 74.
76 remakes a point already made by someone else
77 wonders what I (SFS) think.
78 could be read as Eevee beginning to abandon his plan
79 had a tinge of AtE (but that may be because I do hate being wrong, and Eevee says he doesn't mind it.
I just don't see anything that jumps out at me as a scumslip.
PPE: 20+ new. Going to lunch, will be back in an hour or so.
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Got it.
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Got it.
@Ins really uh, 'sophisticated' joke.
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SFS does not A) know what a scumslip is, or B) answer shraeye's question.
Actually, that kind of fits SFS though. What scum-SFS noticeably different in Blitz3 from typical town SFS? I sort of stopped paying attention after I was nightkilled, maybe Frisk or Galz or shraeye have an opinion on that?
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SFS does not A) know what a scumslip is, or B) answer shraeye's question.
Actually, that kind of fits SFS though. What scum-SFS noticeably different in Blitz3 from typical town SFS? I sort of stopped paying attention after I was nightkilled, maybe Frisk or Galz or shraeye have an opinion on that?
I think i've only played with SFS twice (he may have been in some crazy bastard games I didn't care about?). MIV where I was a n00b, and that last ZM game. I like Galz have viewed him as IC, and was burned by it.
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Got it.
@Ins really uh, 'sophisticated' joke.
*shrug* they can't all be winners.
@Shraeye, I just checked everything to make sure I wasn't misremembering and I'm pretty sure my SFS case is safe to reveal. now that he has an additional post under his belt.
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I'm going to grab lunch, back in a bit.
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@Robz I have been involved and fully read every game SFS has been involved in and will be posting my case soon so long as shraeye things its alright this early mostly I wanted SFS to make another post before I said it to cement that he was in fact doing what I thought he was.
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@Robz I have been involved and fully read every game SFS has been involved in and will be posting my case soon so long as shraeye things its alright this early mostly I wanted SFS to make another post before I said it to cement that he was in fact doing what I thought he was.
Okay, cool, I'd like to hear that case.
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@Robz I have been involved and fully read every game SFS has been involved in and will be posting my case soon so long as shraeye things its alright this early mostly I wanted SFS to make another post before I said it to cement that he was in fact doing what I thought he was.
Let's give him one more post, I have not reached a full opinion on SFS based on his posts. I'd like him to continue unaffected and for me to think unaffected until he at least answers my question on scum/townreads
@SFS when you get back from lunch, tell me your two biggest scumreads. Also tell me the one person other than yourself that you'd stake the game on them being town.
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@Robz I have been involved and fully read every game SFS has been involved in and will be posting my case soon so long as shraeye things its alright this early mostly I wanted SFS to make another post before I said it to cement that he was in fact doing what I thought he was.
Let's give him one more post, I have not reached a full opinion on SFS based on his posts. I'd like him to continue unaffected and for me to think unaffected until he at least answers my question on scum/townreads
@SFS when you get back from lunch, tell me your two biggest scumreads. Also tell me the one person other than yourself that you'd stake the game on them being town.
Deal.
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if you want to ask me anything (mostly shraeye but anyone ofc), would probably be better if you did it soon. we are leaving to a bar soon.
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if you want to ask me anything (mostly shraeye but anyone ofc), would probably be better if you did it soon. we are leaving to a bar soon.
Are you going to be able to vote on this game day?
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if you want to ask me anything (mostly shraeye but anyone ofc), would probably be better if you did it soon. we are leaving to a bar soon.
Are you going to be able to vote on this game day?
I'll try. 60% battery life left, mostly depends on how drunk I get.
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if you want to ask me anything (mostly shraeye but anyone ofc), would probably be better if you did it soon. we are leaving to a bar soon.
A few people have suspected that they are the topic of daychat plotting. If you were scum, who do you think is the easiest to frame right now?
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I think I'm the one that is made to look scummy. Less so lately. Hmmmm. I don't know really
no one (else) has done anything attackable I don't think.
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Oh if I was scum. Hmm. I'd go after SfS probably (I'm assuming I hav no scumbuddies).
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don't know how that answer is helpful, just a whole bunch of wifom.
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Alright, I'm going to go teach for an hour. I hope I come back to some raging discussion.
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
not caught up, but wanted to do this first.
My two top scum reads Insom and Frisk. The way the whole "SFS voted for Jim" is just so bizarre.
I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
not caught up, but wanted to do this first.
My two top scum reads Insom and Frisk. The way the whole "SFS voted for Jim" is just so bizarre.
I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
What does that have to do with me?
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Am still here.
@SFS: Do YOU know what I think your scum tell is?
LOL. When did you quit beating your wife, Senator?
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Interesting, either you know what my case is / your tell is, or you genuinely are town...Unvote Will still post it but SFS handled my suspicion quite a bit.
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
not caught up, but wanted to do this first.
My two top scum reads Insom and Frisk. The way the whole "SFS voted for Jim" is just so bizarre.
I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
What does that have to do with me?
Does anyone even read my posts?
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
not caught up, but wanted to do this first.
My two top scum reads Insom and Frisk. The way the whole "SFS voted for Jim" is just so bizarre.
I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
What does that have to do with me?
Does anyone even read my posts?
No...hey wait a second wouldn't I have had to read that post to respond to it...HMM
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Am still here.
@SFS: Do YOU know what I think your scum tell is?
LOL. When did you quit beating your wife, Senator?
Also yea, I ask the tough questions no one else wants to ask, what of it?
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@SFS
It's your turn. Pick two scum reads AND one person you would bet the whole game on them being town.
not caught up, but wanted to do this first.
My two top scum reads Insom and Frisk. The way the whole "SFS voted for Jim" is just so bizarre.
I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
What does that have to do with me?
Does anyone even read my posts?
No...hey wait a second wouldn't I have had to read that post to respond to it...HMM
Don't know what you're reading besides your daychat with Frisk, but go read my 137.
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I knew why you suspected me. You read my posts, the Jimm thing was the least of my concern with you
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You've only posted 10 times SFS, and i didn't really see how my unvoting Insomniac + joking that we still haven't heard from Jimmmmmm constitutes sufficient suspicion to be your #1 scum read.
Insomniac jumping all over you - I can understand your reaction to that.
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Vote Count 1.3:
Eevee (1, u1): Jimmmmm
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1, u2): Insomniac, Robz888
Galzria (2, u2): shraeye, Eevee
Not voting (4): Galzria, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Captain_Frisk, Insomniac
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
Using strikethrough to show someone who voted but has since moved their vote. Makes it a lot easier to track “unique votes.”
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@SFS: Yeah, I read what you write. I'm not sure why Frisk is confused. Frisk is being too defensive, in my opinion. I haven't moved off the fact that he was paranoid the scumslip was his.
But I still find you pretty scummy, although this is a situation where I really don't think both of you would be scum. Your conversations at each other are just too weird for you to be together. SFS's delayed RVS is still my major reason for suspecting him. Can I get that Insomniac case on SFS now?
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Yes you can Robz perhaps it will clear things up, note I wrote this before SFS came back and did his most recent posts.
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So it's not the longest case in the world and it's a heavy meta argument, some of you may agree with me others may not.
If you have the time go look at ZM1, ZM2 and to a lesser extent MIV where SFS was town. In these games you might notice a similar posting pattern I sure did.
Now look at ZM3 where SFS was scum, do these posts have the same feel to them as ZM1/2? I will argue that they do not, you may not be able to put a finger on it but something is different.
Eevee made a point that SFS had long posts in ZM3 and while this is true this is not the only discrepancy I notice, though admittedly it is one.
The content in SFS's post in ZM1/2 was less than in ZM3. Additionally you may notice that NONE of his posts in ZM3 are very close together where as in ZM1/2 he often gets down a few posts before others respond. Now the time gap IS huge for SFS. In ZM1/2 he was reflective of a townie stream of conciousness post, he didn't care if others had said something he just wanted to get his ideas out this resulted in SFS creating multiple rapid fire posts as opposed to one giant post. In ZM3 he had longer posts and started to show a lot more concern over what he was posting this resulted in the end of his posts often containing "PPE: 15 new" or some other relatively high number. This was because not only was he writing long posts he was grueling over the wording to ensure he hadn't exposed something he wasn't supposed to know.
You might have even noticed that when replying to something seemingly small (the scumslip question) SFS provides a long detailed post going into more detail then he needs to.
So I ask you, does SFS posting style this game match more closely with his townie meta in ZM1/2, or does it more resemble his scum meta in ZM3. I argue it is in fact the latter.
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Hmm. I did notice that SFS's PPE count in Blitz3 was ridiculously high, and you're definitely right that that's probably a scumtell.
Is that really what he's doing here? I'd believe it. I'll go back and look.
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You've only posted 10 times SFS, and i didn't really see how my unvoting Insomniac + joking that we still haven't heard from Jimmmmmm constitutes sufficient suspicion to be your #1 scum read.
Insomniac jumping all over you - I can understand your reaction to that.
Re: post count - I didn't know the game started last night. I was focused on Pandemic, and went to bed early.
Re: my suspicion of you - you and Insom traded the cute "VOTE: Frisk and OMGUS VOTE: Insom" right out of the gate (posts 33 and 41), then you UNVOTE "to avoid confusion over RVS voting" right before Insom puts a REAL vote on me for joke voting? And you "didn't really see" why that would seem scummy.
Bonus point though for the bolded part though, cause I didn't list you as my #1. If you read my 204, you'll see that Insom is listed first, then you.
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Yes, SFS, you did list Insom first. But it was not clear or apparent to me that you were listing those names in a given order for a reason. In fact, I was about to ask you to clarify which one you were more sure about.
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I find this (103):
Unvote to avoid any RVS confusion.
followed by this (109):
Should we vote jimmmmm for lurking?
followed by this (112):
@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
to feel a WHOLE lot like daychat-plotted scheming, irrespective of the vote on me.
You may have something here. I imagine that plots/schemes are being hatched in daychat, but I wonder how blatant they will be when played out in thread. One question though, what do you mean by "irrespective of the vote on me" Like, if Insom hadn't voted, you would still have felt like Frisk was leading a one-man plot against you?
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I won't bet the game on anybody but you and Jim, because I'm always wrong.
Also, I don't care if you are worried about guess wrong. But I DO want to hear your guess.
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Yes, SFS, you did list Insom first. But it was not clear or apparent to me that you were listing those names in a given order for a reason. In fact, I was about to ask you to clarify which one you were more sure about.
Insom is still #1. When I make a list of things and nothing is to be inferred from the order of their listing, I make that clear by stating either "in no particular order" or by specifying the mechanism by which the order was determined.
Insom is #1 because before he provided us the "case" on me, he suggested we all go back and look at M4, ZM1, ZM2 and ZM3 to verify his claims. That ostensibly shows "good objectivity", but given the remaining time before deadline, works in favor of scum.
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@Frisk
I'd love to hear your two top scumreads now.
@everyone, we should start angling for a lynch soon, actually. Get on that.
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@Frisk
I'd love to hear your two top scumreads now.
@everyone, we should start angling for a lynch soon, actually. Get on that.
eevee #1 for sure.
I'll go sfs for #2, because I like the insomniac case... adn the fact that he did that research will move him to my preferred townie.
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@SFS are you serious? I didn't tell anyone to read those games until I posted my case on you, my case on you relies on you either believing me or going and reading those games, since you have no verifiable way to know that I am town I suggested reading those games. And when I posted my case and even now there is still time to skim those games for the required information.
RE-Vote: SFS
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I agree with Ins on the SfS thing.
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What's the case against Galzria? He's the leading lynch candidate, but definitely on the townier side as far as I can tell. I do think an SFS lynch is superior there. Although, I can't really tell if SFS is super guilty of the posting style that Insomniac accused him of.
I'm also annoyed--although it's not his fault, IRL stuff--that Eevee is clearly not going to be around much more, and just disappearing for the rest of the day is probably a pretty good way to avoid getting lynched. At least it has been as we approached deadlines in other games. It would be one thing if I didn't suspect Eevee, but I do.
Then there's Frisk, and I've posted my suspicion of Frisk: his paranoia about the scumslip I did think was scummy, but I'm the only one who seems to have noticed it. Of course, some of the people may have not noticed it on purpose in order to protect Frisk, if he is scum.
That leaves Insomniac, who I don't have any specific suspicions of at the moment.
So I guess I'm like this right now:
Would lynch: SFS, Eevee
Might lynch: Frisk
Very hesitant to lynch: Galzria, Insomniac
PPE Looks like Frisk and Insomniac are on the same page as me.
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
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I find this (103):
Unvote to avoid any RVS confusion.
followed by this (109):
Should we vote jimmmmm for lurking?
followed by this (112):
@Shraeye didn't see a slip.
Unvote
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft for even talking about voting for an IC.
to feel a WHOLE lot like daychat-plotted scheming, irrespective of the vote on me.
You may have something here. I imagine that plots/schemes are being hatched in daychat, but I wonder how blatant they will be when played out in thread. One question though, what do you mean by "irrespective of the vote on me" Like, if Insom hadn't voted, you would still have felt like Frisk was leading a one-man plot against you?
By "irrespective of the vote on me" I meant "and I'm not saying this because the vote was specifically on me". (see the next sentence of that post, which you did not quote.) And to be clear, I have not said Frisk was leading, and I'm specifically saying that IMO two people are involved.
In fact, if you were not an IC, I would be making a lot of hay over these three things - omission of a critical part of a quote, mis-representing that I said something I didn't say, and putting words in my mouth. So instead, let me say this: I always hold people accountable for what they write, and you will not get a free pass. We don't want anyone drawing incorrect conclusions from bad data.
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Have we learned what the scumslip was? I'm curious!
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
This seems non-sequitur where did this come from is it because you think frisk and I town? Did you see Eevee agreeing with my SFS case?
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What's the case against Galzria? He's the leading lynch candidate, but definitely on the townier side as far as I can tell. I do think an SFS lynch is superior there. Although, I can't really tell if SFS is super guilty of the posting style that Insomniac accused him of.
I'm also annoyed--although it's not his fault, IRL stuff--that Eevee is clearly not going to be around much more, and just disappearing for the rest of the day is probably a pretty good way to avoid getting lynched. At least it has been as we approached deadlines in other games. It would be one thing if I didn't suspect Eevee, but I do.
Then there's Frisk, and I've posted my suspicion of Frisk: his paranoia about the scumslip I did think was scummy, but I'm the only one who seems to have noticed it. Of course, some of the people may have not noticed it on purpose in order to protect Frisk, if he is scum.
That leaves Insomniac, who I don't have any specific suspicions of at the moment.
So I guess I'm like this right now:
Would lynch: SFS, Eevee
Might lynch: Frisk
Very hesitant to lynch: Galzria, Insomniac
PPE Looks like Frisk and Insomniac are on the same page as me.
This is the second time you've called me townie in the face of two votes on me. My original scumread on you (posted somewhere back a few pages now) was over your joining the party somewhat late last night (even though you appeared to be around the forums), and when you did post, you came swooping in to pick up and push my argument against Eevee's case almost word for word. I felt then like you were trying to get on my good side and that hasn't changed. You've said now that I appear "townie" to you, and while you're right, as scum you would know you were without having to provide a reason - which you haven't.
So would you please elaborate on your town read of me? I don't trust people who are right but give no reason for being so. Comes across as "I'm right and know I am so this won't get contested". Well, I want an actual reason please.
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@SFS are you serious? I didn't tell anyone to read those games until I posted my case on you, my case on you relies on you either believing me or going and reading those games, since you have no verifiable way to know that I am town I suggested reading those games. And when I posted my case and even now there is still time to skim those games for the required information.
RE-Vote: SFS
Again, misdirection. The first two lines of your 217 read:
"So it's not the longest case in the world and it's a heavy meta argument, some of you may agree with me others may not.
If you have the time go look at ZM1, ZM2 and to a lesser extent MIV where SFS was town. In these games you might notice a similar posting pattern I sure did."
So BEFORE you laid out the "case", you suggested (my word) we go look at the games. At the end of sentence two, have you made your case? Does sentence 2 come BEFORE, sentence three? I stand by exactly what I wrote, including the "ostensibly" and the fact that its a wonderful way to divert town, under time pressures.
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
This seems non-sequitur where did this come from is it because you think frisk and I town? Did you see Eevee agreeing with my SFS case?
Well, as town, if you pick 2 other townies, everyone else is scum. This game is super hard like that.
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Let me set out my reads without much explanation as we start working towards a lynch. I'll explain later, but I have to leave for a seminar soon.
I think Eevee is town; at the beginning I had a strong feeling that way. It hasn't been reaffirmed in a while, so that's perhaps dwindling.
Frisk is also town I believe. Read through his posts, he's been very genuine and helpful I believe.
Galzria started with a minor scumread, and he hasn't done much to swing it either way.
SFS seems to be scummy but I need to carefully consider what he's said more before I reach a conclusion. It's harder for me to unwind dense posts.
Robz is also slightly mysterious to me, I'll post more when I do research soon.
Insomniac is my current scummiest read. I'm fairly confident he's scum
Vote: insomniac
Also, y'all can forget about the "scumslip" in 60-79. It wasn't a scumslip at all as some people may have guessed. It was #74, a very towny point of view, and Frisk I think was the first person to publicly use this argument. It surprised me at first but is obviously the correct town perspective, and I was wondering if any scum would jump at the opportunity to agree with an IC calling it a scumslip. But an interesting fact in this game is, if you are town and see 3 people other than yourself agreeing on something, then one of them is scum.
This is one reason why I am currently not ok with the SFS lynch. I need to sort out the fact that Frisk, Eevee, Insom, and Robz all think he's scummy. If indeed SFS is scum, then one of his partners is bussing him. If he is town, then at least 2 of that group is scum.
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
This seems non-sequitur where did this come from is it because you think frisk and I town? Did you see Eevee agreeing with my SFS case?
No I didn't see Eevee do that, I was just quickly counting up the people who hadn't expressed willingness to lynch SFS.
But I read Eevee's comment as a transparently anybody-but-me wagon join-ish.
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Just a note shraeye - if we deviate from eevee, we will 100% require some scum to lynch anyone else.
I think that scum will want to bus, because they can't leave all 3 not voting day 1, but its just something we need to be aware of.
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@SFS are you serious? I didn't tell anyone to read those games until I posted my case on you, my case on you relies on you either believing me or going and reading those games, since you have no verifiable way to know that I am town I suggested reading those games. And when I posted my case and even now there is still time to skim those games for the required information.
RE-Vote: SFS
Again, misdirection. The first two lines of your 217 read:
"So it's not the longest case in the world and it's a heavy meta argument, some of you may agree with me others may not.
If you have the time go look at ZM1, ZM2 and to a lesser extent MIV where SFS was town. In these games you might notice a similar posting pattern I sure did."
So BEFORE you laid out the "case", you suggested (my word) we go look at the games. At the end of sentence two, have you made your case? Does sentence 2 come BEFORE, sentence three? I stand by exactly what I wrote, including the "ostensibly" and the fact that its a wonderful way to divert town, under time pressures.
The entire post is my case so if you read only some of it sure I suggest it before but I consider that entire post to be my case so. Your wrong and enjoy hating it.
PPE: I see Shraeye is also wrong and didn post much of a reason for me to respond to
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@Frisk Remember plurality lynches
@Insom it's coming; i'm busy right now.
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I don't like robz,insom and galz agreeing, as one of Themis scummmmmm
#74 for reference. I suppose that it should say "at least" one. "Themis" is a secret code that indicates ipad posting.
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What's the case against Galzria? He's the leading lynch candidate, but definitely on the townier side as far as I can tell. I do think an SFS lynch is superior there. Although, I can't really tell if SFS is super guilty of the posting style that Insomniac accused him of.
I'm also annoyed--although it's not his fault, IRL stuff--that Eevee is clearly not going to be around much more, and just disappearing for the rest of the day is probably a pretty good way to avoid getting lynched. At least it has been as we approached deadlines in other games. It would be one thing if I didn't suspect Eevee, but I do.
Then there's Frisk, and I've posted my suspicion of Frisk: his paranoia about the scumslip I did think was scummy, but I'm the only one who seems to have noticed it. Of course, some of the people may have not noticed it on purpose in order to protect Frisk, if he is scum.
That leaves Insomniac, who I don't have any specific suspicions of at the moment.
So I guess I'm like this right now:
Would lynch: SFS, Eevee
Might lynch: Frisk
Very hesitant to lynch: Galzria, Insomniac
PPE Looks like Frisk and Insomniac are on the same page as me.
This is the second time you've called me townie in the face of two votes on me. My original scumread on you (posted somewhere back a few pages now) was over your joining the party somewhat late last night (even though you appeared to be around the forums), and when you did post, you came swooping in to pick up and push my argument against Eevee's case almost word for word. I felt then like you were trying to get on my good side and that hasn't changed. You've said now that I appear "townie" to you, and while you're right, as scum you would know you were without having to provide a reason - which you haven't.
So would you please elaborate on your town read of me? I don't trust people who are right but give no reason for being so. Comes across as "I'm right and know I am so this won't get contested". Well, I want an actual reason please.
The reason I don't suspect you as much as others is that you haven't done anything to raise my suspicion.
Eevee: Was blatantly, weirdly, continuously wrong.
Frisk: Paranoid scumslip would incriminate him.
SFS: Returned to RVS, maybe did Insomniac's posting thing.
So you and Insomniac get to be my townier reads by default. I also think both of you are in keeping with your town metas, maybe.
But now I have to review shraeye's case on Ins...
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@Frisk Remember plurality lynches
@Insom it's coming; i'm busy right now.
I assure you that I am town. And I know scum is agreeing with me but that doesn't mean they aren't busing. Note how reluctant any of those agreeing are to get on the wagon. Eevee and frisk both expressed agreeance but did not join me
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
A strange team. Isn't Eevee's vote on Galzria, and he has expressed a scumread on SFS??
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@Frisk Remember plurality lynches
@Insom it's coming; i'm busy right now.
I assure you that I am town. And I know scum is agreeing with me but that doesn't mean they aren't busing. Note how reluctant any of those agreeing are to get on the wagon. Eevee and frisk both expressed agreeance but did not join me
I'm much more convinced that frisk/eevee are town than I am convinced of your towniness.
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Vote Count 1.4:
Eevee (1, u1): Jimmmmm
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (1, u2): shraeye, Eevee
Insomniac (1, u1): shraeye
Not voting (3): Galzria, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Captain_Frisk
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
A strange team. Isn't Eevee's vote on Galzria, and he has expressed a scumread on SFS??
I didn't remember where Eevee's vote was, and he hadn't expressed the scumread at the time I wrote the post (PPE fail).
But, look, scum are going to be "expressing scumreads" on their scumbuddies, for sure for sure.
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@Frisk Remember plurality lynches
@Insom it's coming; i'm busy right now.
I assure you that I am town. And I know scum is agreeing with me but that doesn't mean they aren't busing. Note how reluctant any of those agreeing are to get on the wagon. Eevee and frisk both expressed agreeance but did not join me
I'm much more convinced that frisk/eevee are town than I am convinced of your towniness.
Im not even saying that they are scum because I believe that SFS is scum so I believe that at LEAST one person agreeing with me is scum it could be robz, frisk or eevee I don't have strong town reads on anyone
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Shraeye, I disagree with virtually all your reads, but I can't really argue them without the cases you present.
I'm open to being wrong about Insomniac, because often I interpret a lack of scummy behavior as townish, when in reality, scum are just being super careful and therefore not appearing scummy. (This process of elimination approach almost bagged me Dsell in MIV, but then I succumbed to claims). But I strongly disagree that Eevee and Frisk can be written off as probtowns, and I'm surprised that you seem to do so that easily.
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@SFS are you serious? I didn't tell anyone to read those games until I posted my case on you, my case on you relies on you either believing me or going and reading those games, since you have no verifiable way to know that I am town I suggested reading those games. And when I posted my case and even now there is still time to skim those games for the required information.
RE-Vote: SFS
Again, misdirection. The first two lines of your 217 read:
"So it's not the longest case in the world and it's a heavy meta argument, some of you may agree with me others may not.
If you have the time go look at ZM1, ZM2 and to a lesser extent MIV where SFS was town. In these games you might notice a similar posting pattern I sure did."
So BEFORE you laid out the "case", you suggested (my word) we go look at the games. At the end of sentence two, have you made your case? Does sentence 2 come BEFORE, sentence three? I stand by exactly what I wrote, including the "ostensibly" and the fact that its a wonderful way to divert town, under time pressures.
The entire post is my case so if you read only some of it sure I suggest it before but I consider that entire post to be my case so. Your wrong and enjoy hating it.
PPE: I see Shraeye is also wrong and didn post much of a reason for me to respond to
While living in Texas I learned that when people are proven wrong by the simple examination of the facts, they often try to reframe the facts, then finish with "you're wrong" and then change topics. (When it was their own written communication that provided the facts, the rate at which they resorted to this tactic approached 100%).
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I don't like robz,insom and galz agreeing, as one of Themis scummmmmm
#74 for reference. I suppose that it should say "at least" one. "Themis" is a secret code that indicates ipad posting.
Themis was one of the Greek Titanesses.
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@SFS are you serious? I didn't tell anyone to read those games until I posted my case on you, my case on you relies on you either believing me or going and reading those games, since you have no verifiable way to know that I am town I suggested reading those games. And when I posted my case and even now there is still time to skim those games for the required information.
RE-Vote: SFS
Interesting, but the fact of the matter is we have a disagreeance of opinion, you say "before" my case because it precedes the case in your opinion, I can see why you would think that. However it is part of the case in my opinion hence why I made a big post instead of smaller posts. If i had made a smaller post saying hey guys its not that much of a case but if you read these games" then I would absolutely agree with you, however I included it in the post of the case as it is part of my case, it's like referencing the material i'm citing.
Again, misdirection. The first two lines of your 217 read:
"So it's not the longest case in the world and it's a heavy meta argument, some of you may agree with me others may not.
If you have the time go look at ZM1, ZM2 and to a lesser extent MIV where SFS was town. In these games you might notice a similar posting pattern I sure did."
So BEFORE you laid out the "case", you suggested (my word) we go look at the games. At the end of sentence two, have you made your case? Does sentence 2 come BEFORE, sentence three? I stand by exactly what I wrote, including the "ostensibly" and the fact that its a wonderful way to divert town, under time pressures.
The entire post is my case so if you read only some of it sure I suggest it before but I consider that entire post to be my case so. Your wrong and enjoy hating it.
PPE: I see Shraeye is also wrong and didn post much of a reason for me to respond to
While living in Texas I learned that when people are proven wrong by the simple examination of the facts, they often try to reframe the facts, then finish with "you're wrong" and then change topics. (When it was their own written communication that provided the facts, the rate at which they resorted to this tactic approached 100%).
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I have no idea what happened to that post but here we go again.
SFS I understand why you think it was before the case, but I disagree with it being before the case. From your POV it doesn't matter the size of the post its the order that the content is laid out by a person and thats a fine stance to take.
In my POV I had a reason for grouping all of that together and thats why I do not believe that I said that first, I believe it was part of my case. In essence it's like writing an essay. Imagine I had written the same thing without that line, is it clear what the source material I'm referring to is maybe? With the extra on top it definetly is. And like all essays you should have some call to action, in this case I am calling for people to vote for you, but they can't just blindly believe me because I might be scum so I encourage them to read the source material and come to their own conclusions.
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I have no idea what happened to that post but here we go again.
SFS I understand why you think it was before the case, but I disagree with it being before the case. From your POV it doesn't matter the size of the post its the order that the content is laid out by a person and thats a fine stance to take.
In my POV I had a reason for grouping all of that together and thats why I do not believe that I said that first, I believe it was part of my case. In essence it's like writing an essay. Imagine I had written the same thing without that line, is it clear what the source material I'm referring to is maybe? With the extra on top it definetly is. And like all essays you should have some call to action, in this case I am calling for people to vote for you, but they can't just blindly believe me because I might be scum so I encourage them to read the source material and come to their own conclusions.
Fair enough. A honest difference of opinion about how to interpret the word "before". Does "before" mean "occurs prior to", or does "before" mean "in an earlier post".
VOTE: Insomniac, for the multitude of reasons already discussed, and for being so defensive once he "proved ME wrong"
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still here and reading, despite my friends literally hating this forum. reads still the same. shraeye, I wish I could post more :( tomorrow!
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I have no idea what happened to that post but here we go again.
SFS I understand why you think it was before the case, but I disagree with it being before the case. From your POV it doesn't matter the size of the post its the order that the content is laid out by a person and thats a fine stance to take.
In my POV I had a reason for grouping all of that together and thats why I do not believe that I said that first, I believe it was part of my case. In essence it's like writing an essay. Imagine I had written the same thing without that line, is it clear what the source material I'm referring to is maybe? With the extra on top it definetly is. And like all essays you should have some call to action, in this case I am calling for people to vote for you, but they can't just blindly believe me because I might be scum so I encourage them to read the source material and come to their own conclusions.
Fair enough. A honest difference of opinion about how to interpret the word "before". Does "before" mean "occurs prior to", or does "before" mean "in an earlier post".
VOTE: Insomniac, for the multitude of reasons already discussed, and for being so defensive once he "proved ME wrong"
Well you ARE wrong, I AM town. But you already know that, so I guess you aren't wrong and can fake "aww shucks i hate being wrong" tomorrow if you actually manage to get my lynched.
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still here and reading, despite my friends literally hating this forum. reads still the same. shraeye, I wish I could post more :( tomorrow!
Eevee, shraeye has come out against Insomniac. You will be immediately switching your vote to Insomniac, per your argument, correct?
Let me stop you before you say, "No, we didn't agree to that, and I didn't designate shraeye as my IC to sheep."
Your argument rested on the notion that the ICs would have superior reads, did it not? Aren't you therefore bound to join the opinion of the only one of them currently offering one?
I bring this up again because I think you're getting a pass for proposing something that made no sense, that everyone rejected, and then you fled to the cover of your IRL commitments.
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still here and reading, despite my friends literally hating this forum. reads still the same. shraeye, I wish I could post more :( tomorrow!
Eevee, shraeye has come out against Insomniac. You will be immediately switching your vote to Insomniac, per your argument, correct?
Let me stop you before you say, "No, we didn't agree to that, and I didn't designate shraeye as my IC to sheep."
Your argument rested on the notion that the ICs would have superior reads, did it not? Aren't you therefore bound to join the opinion of the only one of them currently offering one?
I bring this up again because I think you're getting a pass for proposing something that made no sense, that everyone rejected, and then you fled to the cover of your IRL commitments.
Blaming a man's RL commitments as a fleeing excuse is poor form, but I don't dock you for that. It's easy to be suspicious of everything as town, and it's an easy argument to make as scum. So that could break either way.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
This is a major point of my case on Insomniac. He expresses scum read on SFS and Robz (to some degree by PoE, it seems). However you have expressed that Galz is misled town, and that CF's play has been townish. That makes Eevee scum as well, right? Except you think that Eevee wouldn't propose the bad idea as scum, and that he'd try to blend in more. Well that totals up to 4 town reads (to varying degrees) and 2 scum reads. That doesn't add up.
My suspicion is that you wanted to try to bus one of your scummates, and frame one towny, but forgot you'd need a third scum read. The triple that makes the most sense when I buy that theory is that the scumteam is Eevee, Insom, SFS. Eevee is thus also bussing SFS (not with his vote, but with his scumread at least). Interesting to note, is that if that is the triple, each of EIS have one vote on their mates, and one vote on town. Although none of those town votes overlap.
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Shraeye, do you have a handy table of everyone's 2 scum reads and their townread?
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
This is a major point of my case on Insomniac. He expresses scum read on SFS and Robz (to some degree by PoE, it seems). However you have expressed that Galz is misled town, and that CF's play has been townish. That makes Eevee scum as well, right? Except you think that Eevee wouldn't propose the bad idea as scum, and that he'd try to blend in more. Well that totals up to 4 town reads (to varying degrees) and 2 scum reads. That doesn't add up.
My suspicion is that you wanted to try to bus one of your scummates, and frame one towny, but forgot you'd need a third scum read. The triple that makes the most sense when I buy that theory is that the scumteam is Eevee, Insom, SFS. Eevee is thus also bussing SFS (not with his vote, but with his scumread at least). Interesting to note, is that if that is the triple, each of EIS have one vote on their mates, and one vote on town. Although none of those town votes overlap.
I suspected this is your case, and not only is it wrong it's weak. I don't have 2 strong scum reads.
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To elaborate essentially when I made that post I felt strongly that SFS was scum. I didn't have any other strong scum reads because as you'll note I explained a reason why each person could be town.
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Alright, going back to my reads from earlier:
Robz is still my #1 scum suspect. I don't at all feel like he adequately explained his mysterious town read on me. Everybody else here has me scummy or neutral at best, and so this stands out. One of my favorite scumhunting tells is "two town players cannot agree naturally". Look at Volt/Robz in M-II (Insomniac called Robz there), or Theorel/eHunt in M,VI (I called Theorel there). Or even Theorel/Frisk in M-VIII (I called Frisk there). I feel like right now Robz is trying too hard to pair up Galzria/Robz.
I'm going to Vote: Robz for now.
My second scum read from earlier was Insomniac. I didn't like his light, non-committal last night, only siting basic numbers to weakly support a position that he didn't seem to firmly stand behind. His vote on SFS over the Jimmmmm thing also stood out as rather awkward - BUT - it's that awkwardness combined with my dislike of SFS' response that leave me having a gutcheck here.
Regarding SFS, I don't think he's posting like ZM3 at all, but I've also lost my usual IC feel on him - and I don't know how to interpret that. All through ZM3 (where he was scum scum scum) I swore up and down he was anything but. Even after I died. Of course, the same was true of ZM1, although to be fair he WAS town there, and I was scum. :P My point is, I've never encountered a SFS that I'm uncomfortable about. Because of this, I'm feeling absolutely sure that either he or Insomniac is scum, and the other town. I just... Can't see them both being town together (ohh, although both scum WOULD be interesting... I'll think on that. Although realistically we need to lynch one and see a flip before that could be a real possibility).
Eevee I stand by being town... Tentatively. I've given my reasons in an earlier post, and while I stand being my theory that scum!Eevee probably wouldn't start the debate he did last night, the fact is, if Eevee is town, I'm town, and one of SFS/Insomniac is town, that would mean...
CF is scum. And I'm not comfortable making that declaration. So I need to more closely look at Eevee's play, as well as consider if it's possible for SFS and Insomniac to both be scum.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
This question gives me heartburn. I'm thinking that the eevee bad theory is something being co-ordinated from daychat.
I could see Galz being one of the buddies, so not him.
I could see Insomniac + SFS being buddies, and the insomniac snap @ SFS as planned ploy.
I guess POE would say RobZ, but he's lurking.
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
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[Hah, I posted the wrong piece above]
Here is the reason I find Frisk to be town.
He was the first out of the gates to outline the scenarios with lynches and mislynches, which has helped me think about this game. That is a weak reason, and buys only minor credit.
In #74, he's the first person to mention the fact that if you pick 3 players other than yourself (and are town) then one of those players is scum. Another important thought in this game that helps town.
Robz found Frisk's reaction to the "scumslip" find by me to be defensive, but I read it as genuine worry. This makes Frisk feel towny to me.
Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
This question gives me heartburn. I'm thinking that the eevee bad theory is something being co-ordinated from daychat.
I could see Galz being one of the buddies, so not him.
I could see Insomniac + SFS being buddies, and the insomniac snap @ SFS as planned ploy.
I guess POE would say RobZ, but he's lurking.
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
This is his reaction to the give one solid town read. I think this is a much easier question for scum to answer, because they have the whole setup in front of them, and just have to pick to lie about a scummate, or pick a towny (gaining credit in that person's eyes likely). As a towny with no knowledge, this question would give me heartburn and be very difficult to answer. SFS also had a hard time answering this question, but chose to not answer it instead. Frisk felt super uncomfortable but was willing to give the information anyway. This shows that it's a tough question for him but that he's not got anything to hide. Really his reaction to this felt very genuine and town. If I had to stake the game on someone being town, Frisk would be my bet for town.
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Alright, going back to my reads from earlier:
Robz is still my #1 scum suspect. I don't at all feel like he adequately explained his mysterious town read on me. Everybody else here has me scummy or neutral at best, and so this stands out. One of my favorite scumhunting tells is "two town players cannot agree naturally". Look at Volt/Robz in M-II (Insomniac called Robz there), or Theorel/eHunt in M,VI (I called Theorel there). Or even Theorel/Frisk in M-VIII (I called Frisk there). I feel like right now Robz is trying too hard to pair up Galzria/Robz.
I'm going to Vote: Robz for now.
My second scum read from earlier was Insomniac. I didn't like his light, non-committal last night, only siting basic numbers to weakly support a position that he didn't seem to firmly stand behind. His vote on SFS over the Jimmmmm thing also stood out as rather awkward - BUT - it's that awkwardness combined with my dislike of SFS' response that leave me having a gutcheck here.
Regarding SFS, I don't think he's posting like ZM3 at all, but I've also lost my usual IC feel on him - and I don't know how to interpret that. All through ZM3 (where he was scum scum scum) I swore up and down he was anything but. Even after I died. Of course, the same was true of ZM1, although to be fair he WAS town there, and I was scum. :P My point is, I've never encountered a SFS that I'm uncomfortable about. Because of this, I'm feeling absolutely sure that either he or Insomniac is scum, and the other town. I just... Can't see them both being town together (ohh, although both scum WOULD be interesting... I'll think on that. Although realistically we need to lynch one and see a flip before that could be a real possibility).
Eevee I stand by being town... Tentatively. I've given my reasons in an earlier post, and while I stand being my theory that scum!Eevee probably wouldn't start the debate he did last night, the fact is, if Eevee is town, I'm town, and one of SFS/Insomniac is town, that would mean...
CF is scum. And I'm not comfortable making that declaration. So I need to more closely look at Eevee's play, as well as consider if it's possible for SFS and Insomniac to both be scum.
I DID adequately explain my town read on you: I cannot suspect everyone of being mafia. And I suspect Eevee, SFS, and Frisk MORE than I suspect you and Insomniac. There's no single thing you've done where I can say "that was scummy." Consequently, my read on you is just nothing. Since I have scummier reads on at least three people, that makes you one of my "town" reads.
I agree with Insomniac's vote over SFS for the Jim thing. Obviously SFS didn't mean it seriously, but trying to get back into the good graces of RVS is something scum do, in my opinion. Because humor and silliness is less threatening than real discussion. That's why I also voted SFS at this time.
I'm pretty intrigued that basically every person says Eevee is town. We all agree he is wrong (except him and SFS), and he's the big town read?
I would switch my vote to him, but there's no wagon there, and I still prefer SFS to Insomniac.
PPE: I strongly disagree with shraeye about Frisk. Filling in readily available info is something anyone can do, town or scum. It's certainly going to emerge before Day 1 ends, so there's no reason for scum not to post it. Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
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Friends coming from out of town to visit I have maybe another hour before I have to be out for the rest of day 1.
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Shraeye, do you have a handy table of everyone's 2 scum reads and their townread?
Not everyone gave a townread. I only asked it of some.
Eevee--Scum(Galz/SFS)
Insom--scum(SFS/Robz)
Frisk--scum(Eevee/SFS) town(Robz)
Robz--scum(SFS/Eevee) town(Galz)
SFS--scum(Frisk/insom) town(no answer given)
Galzria--scum(Robz/Insom)
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I later changed my town to insom fyi
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
Do you actually, though? I've only ever worried about making slips when I was mafia. And if I was told a slip had been made, I would only be especially worried it was me if I were mafia.
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
Do you actually, though? I've only ever worried about making slips when I was mafia. And if I was told a slip had been made, I would only be especially worried it was me if I were mafia.
But would you openly express that worry?
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
Do you actually, though? I've only ever worried about making slips when I was mafia. And if I was told a slip had been made, I would only be especially worried it was me if I were mafia.
But would you openly express that worry?
I might, to try and get out in front of it. Then you could be all like, "See, I knew he was going to make this mistake thinking it was a scumslip!" It wouldn't be a good move, but I bet scum wouldn't be able to help themselves.
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Alright, going back to my reads from earlier:
Robz is still my #1 scum suspect. I don't at all feel like he adequately explained his mysterious town read on me. Everybody else here has me scummy or neutral at best, and so this stands out. One of my favorite scumhunting tells is "two town players cannot agree naturally". Look at Volt/Robz in M-II (Insomniac called Robz there), or Theorel/eHunt in M,VI (I called Theorel there). Or even Theorel/Frisk in M-VIII (I called Frisk there). I feel like right now Robz is trying too hard to pair up Galzria/Robz.
I'm going to Vote: Robz for now.
My second scum read from earlier was Insomniac. I didn't like his light, non-committal last night, only siting basic numbers to weakly support a position that he didn't seem to firmly stand behind. His vote on SFS over the Jimmmmm thing also stood out as rather awkward - BUT - it's that awkwardness combined with my dislike of SFS' response that leave me having a gutcheck here.
Regarding SFS, I don't think he's posting like ZM3 at all, but I've also lost my usual IC feel on him - and I don't know how to interpret that. All through ZM3 (where he was scum scum scum) I swore up and down he was anything but. Even after I died. Of course, the same was true of ZM1, although to be fair he WAS town there, and I was scum. :P My point is, I've never encountered a SFS that I'm uncomfortable about. Because of this, I'm feeling absolutely sure that either he or Insomniac is scum, and the other town. I just... Can't see them both being town together (ohh, although both scum WOULD be interesting... I'll think on that. Although realistically we need to lynch one and see a flip before that could be a real possibility).
Eevee I stand by being town... Tentatively. I've given my reasons in an earlier post, and while I stand being my theory that scum!Eevee probably wouldn't start the debate he did last night, the fact is, if Eevee is town, I'm town, and one of SFS/Insomniac is town, that would mean...
CF is scum. And I'm not comfortable making that declaration. So I need to more closely look at Eevee's play, as well as consider if it's possible for SFS and Insomniac to both be scum.
FoS: Galzria - This post feels like your setting up an excuse to vote for either me or SFS, since I know I'm town it feels like your setting up a bus on SFS if needed or more preferably to you an Insom townie lynch.
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Worrying about having made a scumslip is a more a scum trait than a town trait. I stand by that.
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
Do you actually, though? I've only ever worried about making slips when I was mafia. And if I was told a slip had been made, I would only be especially worried it was me if I were mafia.
But would you openly express that worry?
Good question; I'm not sure of the answer.
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I didn't worry that I had actually slipped, I reread everything. I was worried (and apparently correctly so) that something I had said would be interpreted as scummy, and that the IC would incorrectly use it as an opportunity to mislynch.
Shraeyes specific question zeroed at me (who would i gamble the game on) made me think he was trying to grill me because he thought I was scum, and I thought he was going to cost us the game.
I don't understand why RobZ thinks that I would play scum this way.
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How long until deadline?
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3.5 hours.
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I didn't worry that I had actually slipped, I reread everything. I was worried (and apparently correctly so) that something I had said would be interpreted as scummy, and that the IC would incorrectly use it as an opportunity to mislynch.
Shraeyes specific question zeroed at me (who would i gamble the game on) made me think he was trying to grill me because he thought I was scum, and I thought he was going to cost us the game.
I don't understand why RobZ thinks that I would play scum this way.
I'm not saying your obvscum for this, but I strongly disagree it was a town-ish response. Paranoia that you are the focus is a scum quality.
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I guess it could be the case that you're just jumpy about scumslips in general, since you made such a big one.
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Here are my thoughts on SFS.
He showed up late when it was evident that many people disagreed with Eevee's idea, yet he chose to agree with it. I'm not sure if as scum I would have put myself in that forward of a position. If both SFS and Eevee are scum, them agreeing will help us lynch the second if we lynch the first. If Eevee is town, then SFS would have been much better off to also disagree, and quietly/loudly/regularly pushed Eevee to be today's lynch.
I'm going to say SFS is not a good lynch today.
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Let me get a quick headcount here. If I demanded that we lynch Insomniac, how many people would do it (grudgingly, or willingly)?
SFS is alrady voting for him, and Galz has expressed a scumread on Insom.
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Vote Count 1.5:
Eevee (1, u1): Jimmmmm
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (1, u2): shraeye, Eevee
Insomniac (2, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1, u1): Galzria
Not voting (1): Captain_Frisk
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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Here are my thoughts on SFS.
He showed up late when it was evident that many people disagreed with Eevee's idea, yet he chose to agree with it. I'm not sure if as scum I would have put myself in that forward of a position. If both SFS and Eevee are scum, them agreeing will help us lynch the second if we lynch the first. If Eevee is town, then SFS would have been much better off to also disagree, and quietly/loudly/regularly pushed Eevee to be today's lynch.
I'm going to say SFS is not a good lynch today.
...You're a horrible IC, if you stand by your lynch of me and that stance on SFS you will absolutely cost town the game.
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I would not.
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Let me get a quick headcount here. If I demanded that we lynch Insomniac, how many people would do it (grudgingly, or willingly)?
SFS is alrady voting for him, and Galz has expressed a scumread on Insom.
That is correct. I would vote him, but I like my Robz case better.
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Vote Count 1.5:
Eevee (1, u1): Jimmmmm
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (1, u2): shraeye, Eevee
Insomniac (2, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1, u1): Galzria
Not voting (1): Captain_Frisk
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
That's for the Volt Counts. I'm awake now and watching. Both Volt and Jorbles can flip to D2 if I'm not here to catch it. Remember, D2 will be the full weekend, even though it's Blitz, to counteract the fact that no one is here on the weekends.
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Here are my thoughts on SFS.
He showed up late when it was evident that many people disagreed with Eevee's idea, yet he chose to agree with it. I'm not sure if as scum I would have put myself in that forward of a position. If both SFS and Eevee are scum, them agreeing will help us lynch the second if we lynch the first. If Eevee is town, then SFS would have been much better off to also disagree, and quietly/loudly/regularly pushed Eevee to be today's lynch.
I'm going to say SFS is not a good lynch today.
...You're a horrible IC, if you stand by your lynch of me and that stance on SFS you will absolutely cost town the game.
Thanks for the vote of confidence...
What I said was SFS is not a good lynch today, tomorrow is up in the air. I will not be swayed from lynching you just because you threatened that it will cost town the game. Even if I'm wrong about you, one mislynch will not cost town the game. It will make it harder, but it won't cost the game. I can be swayed, but I do not react to AtE.
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Robz, would you be absolutely against an Insom lynch today?
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And eevee, what do you say about Insom?
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20 minutes left for me, if I get hammered here are my reads for day 2 because I hope we can still win
#1 - SFS - He is absolutely scum
#2 - Galz - He set himself up to vote SFS or Insom which are the biggest wagons, would be highly surprised if he were town
Admittedly I don't have a good read for 3 if pressed I would say
#3 - Eevee - I was only giving him a town read for going against the grain when I think he would fly under the radar, I could be wrong and he could be scum.
Townie I would bet the game on: Frisk, nothing in particular but his posts have just had a resounding town frisk feel for me.
Townie I will never listen to again: Shraeye for being 100% wrong about SFS vs Insom
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Robz, would you be absolutely against an Insom lynch today?
I'm not absolutely against it, but I do have a really different read on him than you do. I think he's acting just like town Insomniac. It's possible that Insomniac has learned how to fool me by now, and he's definitely pulled it off in M-XII. Here's my order, though:
Eevee--SFS--Frisk--Insomniac--Galzria--Me
I'm definitely most suspicious of SFS and Eevee. I'll drop SFS from consideration per your request, though, since I do see some towniness out of his more recent responses, and I'm more sold on Eevee anyway. Vote: Eevee
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Man i hate agreeing with RobZ
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20 minutes left for me, if I get hammered here are my reads for day 2 because I hope we can still win
#1 - SFS - He is absolutely scum
#2 - Galz - He set himself up to vote SFS or Insom which are the biggest wagons, would be highly surprised if he were town
Admittedly I don't have a good read for 3 if pressed I would say
#3 - Eevee - I was only giving him a town read for going against the grain when I think he would fly under the radar, I could be wrong and he could be scum.
Townie I would bet the game on: Frisk, nothing in particular but his posts have just had a resounding town frisk feel for me.
Townie I will never listen to again: Shraeye for being 100% wrong about SFS vs Insom
This is incorrect. I would not vote SFS today. I would consider heavily voting him TOMORROW, IF we lynched you and you flipped town.
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Ins is Slight scum read for me, but really slight. robz
said something totally incorrect, going back to find it. vote:
robz though.
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Ins is Slight scum read for me, but really slight. robz
said something totally incorrect, going back to find it. vote:
robz though.
Give me an "O!" Give me a "G!" Give me a "U!" Give me an "S!"
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Good. I have done analysis computing likely scum triples. I believe there is no way Insom and SFS are both scum.
Also, Insom is not today's lynch, if I have my way. I am mildly inclined to believe Robz's assessment that Insom is acting just like town insom.
People I am currently most suspicious of are Robz/Galz.
Vote: Galz
PPE: I agree with eevee; and am about to look through Robz's stuff.
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20 minutes left for me, if I get hammered here are my reads for day 2 because I hope we can still win
#1 - SFS - He is absolutely scum
#2 - Galz - He set himself up to vote SFS or Insom which are the biggest wagons, would be highly surprised if he were town
Admittedly I don't have a good read for 3 if pressed I would say
#3 - Eevee - I was only giving him a town read for going against the grain when I think he would fly under the radar, I could be wrong and he could be scum.
Townie I would bet the game on: Frisk, nothing in particular but his posts have just had a resounding town frisk feel for me.
Townie I will never listen to again: Shraeye for being 100% wrong about SFS vs Insom
This is incorrect. I would not vote SFS today. I would consider heavily voting him TOMORROW, IF we lynched you and you flipped town.
Really perhaps you should go read your post again because no where did you say you wouldn't lynch either of us and said that you were sure one of us was scum maybe both
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I'm really stressed out, but I'm about to go dark for 2 hours. I think I prefer eevee lynch.
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Good. I have done analysis computing likely scum triples. I believe there is no way Insom and SFS are both scum.
Also, Insom is not today's lynch, if I have my way. I am mildly inclined to believe Robz's assessment that Insom is acting just like town insom.
People I am currently most suspicious of are Robz/Galz.
Vote: Galz
PPE: I agree with eevee; and am about to look through Robz's stuff.
Great! Move from my second town read to my top town read!
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yeah robz, the benefit of my idea was to force scum to sheep ic's. I'm town. scum didn't agree to sheep ic's, why would I? you are smarter than that.
me and only me following the plan would ofc be antitown. town robz is better than that.
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Vote Count 1.6:
Eevee (2, u2): Jimmmmm, Robz888
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (1, u2): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (1): Captain_Frisk
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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Insomniac has been acting scummy, but I do often come up with scum reads on him. So he is not my current #1 at all. I am infact putting him at slight town.
The problem with Insom as scum, is that most of the people I would put him in triples with are willing to lynch him. That doesn't feel right. There are very viable triples out there, and a frigtening percentage of them contain Galzria.
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20 minutes left for me, if I get hammered here are my reads for day 2 because I hope we can still win
#1 - SFS - He is absolutely scum
#2 - Galz - He set himself up to vote SFS or Insom which are the biggest wagons, would be highly surprised if he were town
Admittedly I don't have a good read for 3 if pressed I would say
#3 - Eevee - I was only giving him a town read for going against the grain when I think he would fly under the radar, I could be wrong and he could be scum.
Townie I would bet the game on: Frisk, nothing in particular but his posts have just had a resounding town frisk feel for me.
Townie I will never listen to again: Shraeye for being 100% wrong about SFS vs Insom
This is incorrect. I would not vote SFS today. I would consider heavily voting him TOMORROW, IF we lynched you and you flipped town.
Really perhaps you should go read your post again because no where did you say you wouldn't lynch either of us and said that you were sure one of us was scum maybe both
And I've said all game that you were my #2. That didn't change in that post. What changed is that I said I was having more misgivings about you, and read on SFS was completely unknown. I said that given the way you two were going at it I felt confident that one of you was scum. I never said those odds were equal, or that my reads were equal.
I DID express the possibility that you were both scum - bit that seemed rather farfetched, and wasn't even really worth considering until we had one confirmed flip.
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20 minutes left for me, if I get hammered here are my reads for day 2 because I hope we can still win
#1 - SFS - He is absolutely scum
#2 - Galz - He set himself up to vote SFS or Insom which are the biggest wagons, would be highly surprised if he were town
Admittedly I don't have a good read for 3 if pressed I would say
#3 - Eevee - I was only giving him a town read for going against the grain when I think he would fly under the radar, I could be wrong and he could be scum.
Townie I would bet the game on: Frisk, nothing in particular but his posts have just had a resounding town frisk feel for me.
Townie I will never listen to again: Shraeye for being 100% wrong about SFS vs Insom
This is incorrect. I would not vote SFS today. I would consider heavily voting him TOMORROW, IF we lynched you and you flipped town.
Really perhaps you should go read your post again because no where did you say you wouldn't lynch either of us and said that you were sure one of us was scum maybe both
And I've said all game that you were my #2. That didn't change in that post. What changed is that I said I was having more misgivings about you, and read on SFS was completely unknown. I said that given the way you two were going at it I felt confident that one of you was scum. I never said those odds were equal, or that my reads were equal.
I DID express the possibility that you were both scum - bit that seemed rather farfetched, and wasn't even really worth considering until we had one confirmed flip.
That entire post just felt like you were trying to gain the ability to lynch Robz or Insom or SFS
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I always always read ins as scum, not more so than normal
here. interpret what you will from there. 20% battery life left but I'm totally ready to go home to be for the deadline. 3 hours left?
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yeah robz, the benefit of my idea was to force scum to sheep ic's. I'm town. scum didn't agree to sheep ic's, why would I? you are smarter than that.
me and only me following the plan would ofc be antitown. town robz is better than that.
You're actually right, my apologies. I misrepresented your position. I thought you were saying the ICs had better reads than the non-IC towns. But all you're saying is that the damage that could be done by the ICs is less than a mafia-led town, so we would rather negate the non-IC town than risk throwing the town to the mafia? Okay, well, I still disagree with the plan, but that puts it in perspective a bit more.
I have no idea who to vote for.
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And alert: I'm going to be phone posting from now until deadline.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
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I wish I was better at rhetorics.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I've explained numerous times that I have read your plan fully understand what your saying and still disagree with it
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this game is super awesome btw, ty ashersky.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I've explained numerous times that I have read your plan fully understand what your saying and still disagree with it
Yeah, we always disagree though :) and you could be scum still. post game is the only place I can get a real reality check.
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yeah robz, the benefit of my idea was to force scum to sheep ic's. I'm town. scum didn't agree to sheep ic's, why would I? you are smarter than that.
me and only me following the plan would ofc be antitown. town robz is better than that.
Vote: Eevee
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Vote: Galzria
I'll vote for my number 2 scum read, much much much prefer SFS still.
Anyways only posting by phone now. and no guarantees ill be available at all
no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
Well I was just saying I read and understood your case you said no one did. I find that we sometimes disagree but not always and while you always think Im scum I normally find you townie.
I've explained numerous times that I have read your plan fully understand what your saying and still disagree with it
Yeah, we always disagree though :) and you could be scum still. post game is the only place I can get a real reality check.
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Good. I have done analysis computing likely scum triples. I believe there is no way Insom and SFS are both scum.
Also, Insom is not today's lynch, if I have my way. I am mildly inclined to believe Robz's assessment that Insom is acting just like town insom.
People I am currently most suspicious of are Robz/Galz.
Vote: Galz
PPE: I agree with eevee; and am about to look through Robz's stuff.
Sorry, posting over warnings and missed this.
I'm not sure how to respond though since you didn't really present a case. You mentioned in another post about possible "pairs", and I guess if you're talking about "is too uncertain about too many people, thus could be scum with any of them", I couldn't really refute you except to say I'm not scum.
I agree that I'm on the fence in a lot of places. Almost all of my reads are circumstantial. "If Insomniac is town, SFS is likely scum" - "If Eevee is town, CF is likely scum UNLESS SFS/Insomniac are both scum", "If Eevee is scum, CF is is likely town and one of SFS/Ins is scum". The only thing I've been consistent about is my strong dislike of Robz buddying up to me. Everything else feels weak at best. Comes with the territory of only knowing my own alignment, but knowing 3 of 5 others are scum.
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Vote Count 1.7:
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I've explained numerous times that I have read your plan fully understand what your saying and still disagree with it
Yeah, we always disagree though :) and you could be scum still. post game is the only place I can get a real reality check.
I read your IC plan and disagree with it. Real opinion there.
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I read it, expressed qualified agreement, asked a lot of very specific questions, and didn't get any answers. Part of that is my fault - I failed to hold folks accountable.
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
Pretty defensive galz, we're currently lynching eevee if I can count.
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
Eevee, Insom, Frisk
Robz, Frisk, Insom
Robz, Insom, Eevee
in order from most to least likely.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I read it, expressed qualified agreement, asked a lot of very specific questions, and didn't get any answers. Part of that is my fault - I failed to hold folks accountable.
the questions were after I started the earlier explained phone posting phase. tbh, because Everyone else seemed to disagree with it, just didnt see it as productive.
I wish people agreed with me on Robz. don't know if I should vote for Galz, personally I don't think he is scum but shraeye suspectx him and I'm sort of the alternstice target.
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I'm also frustrated that I make posts and nobody seems to want to engage them, so I don't know how to defend myself. I feel like I'm being as honest and open as I can and I'm talking to a wall. Take, for example, this post, which got no replies:
Good. I have done analysis computing likely scum triples. I believe there is no way Insom and SFS are both scum.
Also, Insom is not today's lynch, if I have my way. I am mildly inclined to believe Robz's assessment that Insom is acting just like town insom.
People I am currently most suspicious of are Robz/Galz.
Vote: Galz
PPE: I agree with eevee; and am about to look through Robz's stuff.
Sorry, posting over warnings and missed this.
I'm not sure how to respond though since you didn't really present a case. You mentioned in another post about possible "pairs", and I guess if you're talking about "is too uncertain about too many people, thus could be scum with any of them", I couldn't really refute you except to say I'm not scum.
I agree that I'm on the fence in a lot of places. Almost all of my reads are circumstantial. "If Insomniac is town, SFS is likely scum" - "If Eevee is town, CF is likely scum UNLESS SFS/Insomniac are both scum", "If Eevee is scum, CF is is likely town and one of SFS/Ins is scum". The only thing I've been consistent about is my strong dislike of Robz buddying up to me. Everything else feels weak at best. Comes with the territory of only knowing my own alignment, but knowing 3 of 5 others are scum.
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okay Galz feels town to me. shraeye, eoooobz!
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
Pretty defensive galz, we're currently lynching eevee if I can count.
Yeah, with my biggest scum read on the wagon of my biggest* townread.
I think you're mistaking "defensive" for "frustrated" - but at least Shraeye has a plan for the direction of the town if I'm lynched. The problem? All three of his sets contain two people that I think could be town (although on the flip side all three contain two that I think could be scum, so...).
I'm frustrated because I know I'm town. If I get lynched (even if I'm not the leading candidate, I've got an IC saying he's only voting me for the rest of the day) we're one more mislynch from a town loss. Do you know how many games I've won recently? Yeah, it's frustrating as hell.
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
Eevee, Insom, Frisk
Robz, Frisk, Insom
Robz, Insom, Eevee
in order from most to least likely.
Have not caught up, are you saying if Galz is town SFS is town?
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all aboard the Robz wagon. galz's ate really eorks on me.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I read it, expressed qualified agreement, asked a lot of very specific questions, and didn't get any answers. Part of that is my fault - I failed to hold folks accountable.
the questions were after I started the earlier explained phone posting phase. tbh, because Everyone else seemed to disagree with it, just didnt see it as productive.
I wish people agreed with me on Robz. don't know if I should vote for Galz, personally I don't think he is scum but shraeye suspectx him and I'm sort of the alternstice target.
I did misunderstand your argument, so that's fair. Your ic plan is still a bad one though, just not as bad as I first thought.
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I read it, expressed qualified agreement, asked a lot of very specific questions, and didn't get any answers. Part of that is my fault - I failed to hold folks accountable.
the questions were after I started the earlier explained phone posting phase. tbh, because Everyone else seemed to disagree with it, just didnt see it as productive.
I wish people agreed with me on Robz. don't know if I should vote for Galz, personally I don't think he is scum but shraeye suspectx him and I'm sort of the alternstice target.
You being the alternate target doesn't seem like an especially good reason to lynch someone.
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Here are some of Galz's posts that feel very disingenuous to me.
What's the case against Galzria? He's the leading lynch candidate, but definitely on the townier side as far as I can tell. I do think an SFS lynch is superior there. Although, I can't really tell if SFS is super guilty of the posting style that Insomniac accused him of.
I'm also annoyed--although it's not his fault, IRL stuff--that Eevee is clearly not going to be around much more, and just disappearing for the rest of the day is probably a pretty good way to avoid getting lynched. At least it has been as we approached deadlines in other games. It would be one thing if I didn't suspect Eevee, but I do.
Then there's Frisk, and I've posted my suspicion of Frisk: his paranoia about the scumslip I did think was scummy, but I'm the only one who seems to have noticed it. Of course, some of the people may have not noticed it on purpose in order to protect Frisk, if he is scum.
That leaves Insomniac, who I don't have any specific suspicions of at the moment.
So I guess I'm like this right now:
Would lynch: SFS, Eevee
Might lynch: Frisk
Very hesitant to lynch: Galzria, Insomniac
PPE Looks like Frisk and Insomniac are on the same page as me.
This is the second time you've called me townie in the face of two votes on me. My original scumread on you (posted somewhere back a few pages now) was over your joining the party somewhat late last night (even though you appeared to be around the forums), and when you did post, you came swooping in to pick up and push my argument against Eevee's case almost word for word. I felt then like you were trying to get on my good side and that hasn't changed. You've said now that I appear "townie" to you, and while you're right, as scum you would know you were without having to provide a reason - which you haven't.
So would you please elaborate on your town read of me? I don't trust people who are right but give no reason for being so. Comes across as "I'm right and know I am so this won't get contested". Well, I want an actual reason please.
Robz did provide a reason for saying Galz was a town read. This doesn't sound like town concerned that mafia is buddying up to them. It sounds like mafiaGalz trying to encourage a town member to be his spokesperson.
Galz, what is your opinion of Eevee's alignment? What is your opinion of Eevee's argument?
I think Eevee is town. Too many people disagree with him (read: there MUST be scum disagreeing) for it to be likely that he's scum. Unless you believe scum is intentionally setting up to play both sides of an argument.
But (and I think I've been more outspoken than anybody else) I absolutely disagree with Eevee's proposal, as I stated (I believe) succinctly last night.
That said, I've seen 4 people disagree with Eevee:
Myself, Robz, Insomniac, Frisk.
Since I believe Eevee is town and I know that I am, I'm forced to believe at least 2 of Robz/Insomniac/Frisk are scum. From this, you'll see my current reads as above: Robz, Insomniac.
If you then read me as town, you must then assume that SFS is the final cylon?
That's leading Frisk. I did NOT say I read you as town. I said Robz/Ins were my top scum reads right now. Between you and SFS, I'm not sure. You seem as Snarky as always, and SFS reads IC as always (note: this feeling about him bit me in the posterior last blitz game). Neither attitudes or playsyles then read particularly scummy or townie to me one way or another compared to how I normally read you two.
This interaction with Frisk feels super weird to me. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is. His explanations feel more like banter and less like honest reads.
My top scum reads are actually Robz and Insomniac, in that order.
For Robz, I felt like his delay in getting to the thread was a LITTLE suspicious given how active he is, but more than that I felt like when he came in he parroted what I was saying about the problems with Eevee's proposal almost word-for-word. He may actually believe what he wrote, but it really came across as an attempt to saddle up along side me. It was apparent that most people were siding against Eevee on the issue (unsurprisingly - Eevee, I haven't ignored you, I simply think you're wrong.), and it seemed to me like scum!Robz wouldn't want to go against the grain there. Not to mention that Robz knows that if he can get my support behind him it'll be difficult to convince a majority to lynch him.
I don't know. It's not enough to plunk down a vote, but it made me uncomfortable.
Insomniac I got weird vibes from last night because he appeared to offer half-hearted counters to Eevee, using only numbers to back himself ("I know that I'm town so mathematically I have a 60% to lynch scum. IC's only have 50%"). His math is certainly correct, of course, but it felt to me like he was missing the larger point of lost information, and it felt like he was trying to take the "safe" argument, waiting until more people weighed in before really strongly choosing a side.
It just felt... Off. But it didn't feel as unnatural as Robz buddying did. What I mean by that is that I see town!Insomniac acting the way he did more often than I see town!Robz acting the way that HE did.
This is really an unfair assessment of Insom and Robz, in that Robz is scummy because he showed up and used the same argument Galz did to refute Eevee, and Insom is scummy because he was using a mathematical/logical argument to counter eevee. I don't feel like Insom's counters were half-hearted at all. He was refuting it in a diffrent way (as Galz "wanted" Robz to do) and is somehow also scummy for that.
The thing is Eevee, I see what you're driving for, but I think you're not understanding the value of the lost information. You simply cannot "recreate" or "psydocreate" the same feelings of scummy vs not-scummy behavior without real votes and stances and arguments that lead somewhere. "I would vote X" is such an easy thing to fake.
Further, while your premise that "in a vacuum, IC's would have a 50% chance"is accurate, we are not in a vacuum. And I think that what your suggestion boils down to is "Let's have the two sides debate, and the IC's pick the winner". It doesn't account for the fact that you're essentially turning the game into a straight oratorical contest, rather than what's scummy and what's not.
Robz is probably a better orator than I am. He likes to claim he's better than Insomniac (See: M-III, following M-II ;D). If he's scum, he can probably "out-debate" me - and there's not a lot I can do about it.
Further to that point, what if he's town as well? Do the IC's open the next day saying "Well Galz wasn't scum, so Robz must be" - or do they put it up to another debate?
I think that while, on the surface it might be 50/50, you're actually changing the nature of the game to take away information analysis, and in it's place those who are stronger orators will prevail - for whichever alignment they are on.
His paragraph here about Robz being a good orator makes it feel like he "knows" that Robz is not on his team, although I realize that isn't explicitly stated.
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As an IC, I apologize that my reads have been all over the place. With the quick deadline, I often post all theories immediately once I have them because it's very illuminating to see who agrees with me and who doesn't. Then I realize that there is something else that doesn't seem to line up. I'm currently second-guessing myself with regard to Insom. But I'm sticking with my Galz vote for now, and likely for the rest of the day. It's of note to me that Galz is the most level headed here it seems. I'm sticking with the idea that town are going crazy like me and scrambling to understand things, but mafia would be cool and not seem to stick out much.
I agree with Insom's idea that Galz seems to be gearing up to lynch SFS, Robz, or Insom tomorrow. My best guess is that when Galz flips scum, that there is one partner in his target group, and one out of it.
Another interesting thing: at the start of this game, I went to go read a town-win on Mafiascum using this setup and it's pitiful how easy it was to find their scum. I just read through the first day and immediately guessed 2 out of 3 and I don't even know those people. You all are much harder to read, so congratulations.
I agree with his assessment as well. Do you honestly think both SFS and Insomniac are two of the town? If we lynched Insomniac and he flipped town would you not be quite highly suspicious of SFS? I mean, I never claimed I would run off and lynch him unconditionally, but yes, I would absolutely give it serious consideration.
Now, let me ask you a question:
After I flip town, who's scum?
Eevee, Insom, Frisk
Robz, Frisk, Insom
Robz, Insom, Eevee
in order from most to least likely.
Have not caught up, are you saying if Galz is town SFS is town?
Yes, I see that it looks that way, but I'm not convinced about the strength of my argument there. My idea was that if Galz is town, because Eevee, Insom, Frisk, and Robz all expressed scumreads on SFS that both scum partners would be bussing another. I realize that is actually probably the stronger way to do it. The teams I'm still willing to rule out are ones that each person "called" (meaning I can't believe that scum would put both their actual partners on their scumlists).
That still leaves
SFS, Robz, Frisk (possible)
SFS, Eevee, Ins (which i think is unlikely)
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no one even read let alone considered my plan. makes me sad. looking forward to the post game discussions where you're actually honest though.
I read it, expressed qualified agreement, asked a lot of very specific questions, and didn't get any answers. Part of that is my fault - I failed to hold folks accountable.
the questions were after I started the earlier explained phone posting phase. tbh, because Everyone else seemed to disagree with it, just didnt see it as productive.
I wish people agreed with me on Robz. don't know if I should vote for Galz, personally I don't think he is scum but shraeye suspectx him and I'm sort of the alternstice target.
You being the alternate target doesn't seem like an especially good reason to lynch someone.
I have 0% of flippibg scum.
id estimate galz has like 40% or so, ofc better than me but no
my preferrwd target.
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That still leaves
SFS, Robz, Frisk (possible)
SFS, Eevee, Ins (which i think is unlikely)
Your possible scenario is not.
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Shraeye, I was using Robz as an example of why Eevee's plan was flawed. It had nothing to do with him personally. And I'm sorry, but put yourself in my shoes. You know that you're town. You know that within the town you're the only person who could know that. Now, when somebody comes along expressing repeated belief in your towniness, how does that make you feel? Do you honestly go "Wow, that guy has really good reads"?
Personally I absolutely distrust that style of play. NOBODY, knows I'm town except myself. And the first few times he suggested that I was, he didn't offer any reason at all.
Regarding the exchange between Frisk and I, I *hate* people putting words in my mouth. I did not explicitly call him scum, and he turned around and claimed I thought he was town. This is absolutely, completely false, and yes, I take exception to it. He *could* be town, but he could also be Mafia. So much depends on the alignment of others. I would NOT lynch him today though, as I think I have much stronger reads. That in no way makes him town in my book though.
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Hey - who put forward the theory that SFS and Eevee can not be a scum team because they both agreed to the bonehead plan?
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Hey - who put forward the theory that SFS and Eevee can not be a scum team because they both agreed to the bonehead plan?
Not me. I think they could both be scum. Neither being scum would surprise me the most.
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Vote Count 1.8:
NO CHANGE
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 2 hours.
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man I CANT WAIT for this game to be over. galz and robz, you are the guys I respect the most, I'll be bugging you until someone makes me realize why my plan is stupid. feel free to tell me to stfu if it gets annoying :))
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man I CANT WAIT for this game to be over. galz and robz, you are the guys I respect the most, I'll be bugging you until someone makes me realize why my plan is stupid. feel free to tell me to stfu if it gets annoying :))
:(
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You'd rather be right than win?
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if I wind up being todays lynch, fos on my entire wagon. guys who know me should probably
know better.
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You'd rather be right than win?
I'd rather realize why I'm wrong for future.
2% battery life left, got to go home don't want to miss the deadline.
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Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 92 minutes.
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Eevees frustration seems real, but that could be coaching from day chat. If he's town, then I'm stuck with everyone else being scum.
We have 2 known townies voting for him, so this is good enough for me. Should be around for deadline... Giving the boy a bath.
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Eevee's frustration does feel real to me, Galzria's does not. Galz is the better lynch today in my opinion.
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Nearly everyone els
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Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
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Can someone post count?
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@frisk
I don't even understand. first, you say
Eevees frustration seems real, but that could be coaching from day chat. If he's town, then I'm stuck with everyone else being scum.
then
Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
So first you are saying that eevee's frustration seems real (concluding implicitly that that's a town trait), but that he is likely being coached on how to sound natural in the scumchat. But then you say that it's frustrating to be correctly lynched, implying that Eevee is now being correctly lynched and thus is genuinely frustrated. So he's being coached on how to appear genuinely frustrated even though he is genuinely frustrated??
I really don't like the way you are talking right now.
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Vote Count 1.9:
NO CHANGE
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 78 minutes.
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Way too much going on here... just a thought: is it fair to say that if Eevee isn't scum, then at least one of Robz and Frisk must be. If they were both Town, then the three scum could jump on Eevee and win the vote. Okay, so that doesn't tell us much, other than ruling out the trio {Insom, SFS, Galz}. Although I guess we can take this a step further and say that if Eevee isn't scum then BOTH Robz and Frisk must be, since if there were two other scum then they could lynch Eevee.
Is there a problem with my reasoning? Would the scum maybe rather lynch someone who has come under less suspicion than Eevee? Anyway, I'm going to stick with my vote and see what happens.
(Quick question: what's forum time? I thought it was the time that it says the posts happened, but that seems to be wrong.)
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It's possible that I had some wine with dinner.
My realization regarding frustration was thinking about the last time I saw someone frustrated, which can not be discussed.
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(Quick question: what's forum time? I thought it was the time that it says the posts happened, but that seems to be wrong.)
Forum time is equal to Eastern Time in the U.S. It's the time that is in the timestamp in the posts.
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Jim that logic is flawed. Most votes will carry the day so scum don't need to swoop in to kill someone. Also, Doing so looks bad and could blow their cover. Also they could still wait for someone else to vote for e
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Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
M-XV would agree with you.
I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
I'm frustrated, but I'm also resigned. I've lost so very many games in a row recently, and it's not like my reads have been terrible, so on the one hand I can't believe nobody sees what I do (well, Eevee does), I just don't know how I can help town more in these games. My being lynched puts scum one more lynch from winning and I honestly feel Shraeye is not the person to be trusting. Remember Eevee's proposal? This is exactly why he was wrong. The IC's don't know that I'm town, therefore they are decidedly WORSE at finding scum than I am.
But what can I do? I would honestly be interested in hearing how I could better improve my ability to play town because I'm obviously doing something wrong, and have been for some time. It'll make good post game discussion at least.
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Way too much going on here... just a thought: is it fair to say that if Eevee isn't scum, then at least one of Robz and Frisk must be. If they were both Town, then the three scum could jump on Eevee and win the vote. Okay, so that doesn't tell us much, other than ruling out the trio {Insom, SFS, Galz}. Although I guess we can take this a step further and say that if Eevee isn't scum then BOTH Robz and Frisk must be, since if there were two other scum then they could lynch Eevee.
Is there a problem with my reasoning? Would the scum maybe rather lynch someone who has come under less suspicion than Eevee? Anyway, I'm going to stick with my vote and see what happens.
(Quick question: what's forum time? I thought it was the time that it says the posts happened, but that seems to be wrong.)
Forum time is eastern time.
It is not fair to say that if Eevee is town, then either robz or I must be scum.
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Way too much going on here... just a thought: is it fair to say that if Eevee isn't scum, then at least one of Robz and Frisk must be. If they were both Town, then the three scum could jump on Eevee and win the vote. Okay, so that doesn't tell us much, other than ruling out the trio {Insom, SFS, Galz}. Although I guess we can take this a step further and say that if Eevee isn't scum then BOTH Robz and Frisk must be, since if there were two other scum then they could lynch Eevee.
Is there a problem with my reasoning? Would the scum maybe rather lynch someone who has come under less suspicion than Eevee? Anyway, I'm going to stick with my vote and see what happens.
(Quick question: what's forum time? I thought it was the time that it says the posts happened, but that seems to be wrong.)
Hey Jim, I'm glad you're back. Firstly, I gotta beg you to take your vote off Eevee.
The reason mafia don't' need to swoop in and lynch Eevee is because when deadline hits the furthest ahead WILL be lynched, plurality voting and all.
If Eevee votes for Galz, then each of Eevee and Galz will be at 3 votes, 3 unique. I think ashersky said it would be a coin flip then (or a day extension)
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Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
M-XV would agree with you.
I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
I'm frustrated, but I'm also resigned. I've lost so very many games in a row recently, and it's not like my reads have been terrible, so on the one hand I can't believe nobody sees what I do (well, Eevee does), I just don't know how I can help town more in these games. My being lynched puts scum one more lynch from winning and I honestly feel Shraeye is not the person to be trusting. Remember Eevee's proposal? This is exactly why he was wrong. The IC's don't know that I'm town, therefore they are decidedly WORSE at finding scum than I am.
But what can I do? I would honestly be interested in hearing how I could better improve my ability to play town because I'm obviously doing something wrong, and have been for some time. It'll make good post game discussion at least.
Why are you resigned? You aren't the leader, and if you buss/vote for Eevee, you probably won't be.
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I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
This is not exactly what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know that. You are reacting in your own way, but the reactions don't seem genuine to me. That's my argument. Not flipping out=town.
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I'm home now and will be online after the deadline which is in 61 minutes if I'm not mistaken.
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Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 60 minutes.
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I'm glad shraeye thinks I'm down.
Shraeye, I don't think Galzria is the best lynch for today, but I've read the last 8 hours of this thread drunk from mobile so obviously I'm not the greatest judge of that. Still, how do you feel of Robz? I'd actually like Insomniac, Frisk, SfS all better than Galz here. But obviously Galz rather than myself..
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Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
M-XV would agree with you.
I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
I'm frustrated, but I'm also resigned. I've lost so very many games in a row recently, and it's not like my reads have been terrible, so on the one hand I can't believe nobody sees what I do (well, Eevee does), I just don't know how I can help town more in these games. My being lynched puts scum one more lynch from winning and I honestly feel Shraeye is not the person to be trusting. Remember Eevee's proposal? This is exactly why he was wrong. The IC's don't know that I'm town, therefore they are decidedly WORSE at finding scum than I am.
But what can I do? I would honestly be interested in hearing how I could better improve my ability to play town because I'm obviously doing something wrong, and have been for some time. It'll make good post game discussion at least.
Why are you resigned? You aren't the leader, and if you buss/vote for Eevee, you probably won't be.
I won't vote for my biggest town read unless it's absolutely him or me. I still stand by my vote that Robz is scum, and I would think, or at least hope, that others would see why my case on him makes sense. It seems people seem perfectly ok with the idea of someone coming along and going "yep, he's town". I mean, seriously, go back and look at every single game ever played and find me a place where town did this. It's ridiculous.
Why am I resigned? Because I know who scum would rather see gone between me and Eevee. If Eevee's scum I guarantee I'll be the lynch, and if he's town then I simply can't imagine scum allowing him to get lynched over me (no offense Fuzzy).
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I really think that both eevee and galz may be both be scum here.
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I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
This is not exactly what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know that. You are reacting in your own way, but the reactions don't seem genuine to me. That's my argument. Not flipping out=town.
I honestly don't know what to tell you. You're wrong. And since I know that you're wrong about me then I feel like the likelihood that this town has any chance is pushing nill.
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If I get lynched, here's my reads:
Absolutely scum, and has been all game: Robz
Probably scum by PoE: Frisk
Prob. town, and has been all game: Eevee
Lost in the middle: Insomniac/SFS
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I won't vote for my biggest town read unless it's absolutely him or me. I still stand by my vote that Robz is scum, and I would think, or at least hope, that others would see why my case on him makes sense. It seems people seem perfectly ok with the idea of someone coming along and going "yep, he's town". I mean, seriously, go back and look at every single game ever played and find me a place where town did this. It's ridiculous.
Why am I resigned? Because I know who scum would rather see gone between me and Eevee. If Eevee's scum I guarantee I'll be the lynch, and if he's town then I simply can't imagine scum allowing him to get lynched over me (no offense Fuzzy).
I stand by my statement that Robz's "yep, town" action can definitely be done as town.
You're sentiment regarding Eevee is that either he is town, in which case mafia wants to lynch you over Eevee; odd because I'm the only person yelling loudly for your lynch, and only SFS has followed me.
Or that Eevee is mafia and scum most definitely wants to lynch you. Well, unless Robz/Frisk is your bet on town other than yourself, that makes no sense. No, even IF Robz/Frisk/Galz is town team, it makes no sense.
An IC is the only person yelling for your lynch. Only Insomniac has followed. There two non-ICs voting for Eevee and they don't seem likely to switch. Robz won't because he thinks your town, Frisk won't either for some reason. Also SFS is not voting for you, nor is Eevee. So I really don't understand why you're convinced that "scum want you dead"
Scum doesn't want you dead, the fact that hardly anyone is voting for you is evidence of that. Now what sort of player do scum not want to die? Oh yeah, their scumbuddy.
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dodgy reasoning
Yeah, I get it. I realised after I put it that jumping looks suspicious, and yes of course it's probably unnecessary. If it were to win the game, that might be a different story I suppose.
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Galz, explain why you would possibly allow yourself to be lynched instead of moving to eevee? we still have 50 minutes.
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
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I won't vote for my biggest town read unless it's absolutely him or me. I still stand by my vote that Robz is scum, and I would think, or at least hope, that others would see why my case on him makes sense. It seems people seem perfectly ok with the idea of someone coming along and going "yep, he's town". I mean, seriously, go back and look at every single game ever played and find me a place where town did this. It's ridiculous.
Why am I resigned? Because I know who scum would rather see gone between me and Eevee. If Eevee's scum I guarantee I'll be the lynch, and if he's town then I simply can't imagine scum allowing him to get lynched over me (no offense Fuzzy).
I stand by my statement that Robz's "yep, town" action can definitely be done as town.
You're sentiment regarding Eevee is that either he is town, in which case mafia wants to lynch you over Eevee; odd because I'm the only person yelling loudly for your lynch, and only SFS has followed me.
Or that Eevee is mafia and scum most definitely wants to lynch you. Well, unless Robz/Frisk is your bet on town other than yourself, that makes no sense. No, even IF Robz/Frisk/Galz is town team, it makes no sense.
An IC is the only person yelling for your lynch. Only Insomniac has followed. There two non-ICs voting for Eevee and they don't seem likely to switch. Robz won't because he thinks your town, Frisk won't either for some reason. Also SFS is not voting for you, nor is Eevee. So I really don't understand why you're convinced that "scum want you dead"
Scum doesn't want you dead, the fact that hardly anyone is voting for you is evidence of that. Now what sort of player do scum not want to die? Oh yeah, their scumbuddy.
The same holds true of eevee except that i'm yelling, but its ok because I'm town.
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Galz, explain why you would possibly allow yourself to be lynched instead of moving to eevee? we still have 50 minutes.
Read #366, because again I think you've mischaracterized my position. I WILL vote Eevee if it means him instead of me. But I don't want to vote for my biggest town read when there is still any hope of lynching my #1 scum read.
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Galz, explain why you would possibly allow yourself to be lynched instead of moving to eevee? we still have 50 minutes.
Read #366, because again I think you've mischaracterized my position. I WILL vote Eevee if it means him instead of me. But I don't want to vote for my biggest town read when there is still any hope of lynching my #1 scum read.
All i see is you talking about being resigned to a mislynch, giving your final reads etc. etc. etc.
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Vote Count 1.10:
New Page, New Vote Count
NO CHANGE
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
Unique vote reminders now smaller for easier differentiation.
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 39 minutes.
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Do you know what's more frustrating than being mislynched?
Being correctly lynched
M-XV would agree with you.
I don't know what else to say. Shraeye seems to think I'm not flipping out enough to be town, but it seems like the only thing that will convince him otherwise is seeing my town card revealed upon lynch.
I'm frustrated, but I'm also resigned. I've lost so very many games in a row recently, and it's not like my reads have been terrible, so on the one hand I can't believe nobody sees what I do (well, Eevee does), I just don't know how I can help town more in these games. My being lynched puts scum one more lynch from winning and I honestly feel Shraeye is not the person to be trusting. Remember Eevee's proposal? This is exactly why he was wrong. The IC's don't know that I'm town, therefore they are decidedly WORSE at finding scum than I am.
But what can I do? I would honestly be interested in hearing how I could better improve my ability to play town because I'm obviously doing something wrong, and have been for some time. It'll make good post game discussion at least.
Why are you resigned? You aren't the leader, and if you buss/vote for Eevee, you probably won't be.
I won't vote for my biggest town read unless it's absolutely him or me. I still stand by my vote that Robz is scum, and I would think, or at least hope, that others would see why my case on him makes sense. It seems people seem perfectly ok with the idea of someone coming along and going "yep, he's town". I mean, seriously, go back and look at every single game ever played and find me a place where town did this. It's ridiculous.
Why am I resigned? Because I know who scum would rather see gone between me and Eevee. If Eevee's scum I guarantee I'll be the lynch, and if he's town then I simply can't imagine scum allowing him to get lynched over me (no offense Fuzzy).
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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THIS IS STUPID.
I think Galz is town, he thinks I'm down.
Really, I think ANY other lynch is better (obviously not our IC's).
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down=town
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Listen - i get it. It still doesn't explain the moping, the resignation, etc.
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Galzria could be scum (in which case I think he's playing really well), and I will absolutely vote for him if that's what it takes for me not to die.. but I really would rather have it not be me or him because he is my strongest non-IC townread.
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THIS IS STUPID.
I think Galz is town, he thinks I'm down.
Really, I think ANY other lynch is better (obviously not our IC's).
The problem with this is that i'm also town, which makes your scumteam Insomniac, RobZ and SFS.
Where is SFS?
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I also don't understand why Galz feels like the lynch will hit him unless he votes for Eevee. Eevee is still ahead, to my surprise.
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I also don't understand why Galz feels like the lynch will hit him unless he votes for Eevee. Eevee is still ahead, to my surprise.
I agree.
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THIS IS STUPID.
I think Galz is town, he thinks I'm down.
Really, I think ANY other lynch is better (obviously not our IC's).
The problem with this is that i'm also town, which makes your scumteam Insomniac, RobZ and SFS.
Where is SFS?
I'm not at all convinced you are town. You repeating that is just annoying and doesn't change anything. Unless you'd confess to being scum if you were scum?
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I also don't understand why Galz feels like the lynch will hit him unless he votes for Eevee. Eevee is still ahead, to my surprise.
Galzria would vote for Robz if you did. Wouldn't you rather see Robz lynched than me? Or should we gang up on Insomniac? Or Frisk?
Really anyone? :/ We still have time!
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Listen - i get it. It still doesn't explain the moping, the resignation, etc.
Frisk. (I really hope you're town or I'll feel ridiculously stupid when this game finishes for trying to explain reason to you)
M-XV - Loss
M-XIV - Loss
ZM3 - Loss
RMM3 - Loss
M-IX - Loss
M-VIII - Loss
M-VII - Loss
I'm sorry. You'll forgive me if this is getting a bit depressing. Yeah, it's hard to keep fighting in the face of such an abysmal record recently.
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I would rather not see Robz lynched, nor Eevee.
I really want just GAlzria now. His ability to sound like he's in danger, while attracting absolutely zero votes is what seals it for me. Scumteam does not want to lose Galz, nobody is willing to bus.
Jimmmm, I really really am calling on you to switch to Galz.
Robz, I really really am calling on you to reevaluate your read.
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And Frisk too, if both Eevee and Galz are suspicious to you, why take out eevee first?
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Why arent you calling me to re-evaluate my read? Afaik Robz isnt even online.
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
I'm glad you posted this, cause you've been all over the map in the past few hours. If you weren't IC, I'd be voting for you.
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
I'm glad you posted this, cause you've been all over the map in the past few hours. If you weren't IC, I'd be voting for you.
+1
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
I'm glad you posted this, cause you've been all over the map in the past few hours. If you weren't IC, I'd be voting for you.
Great, that's the second time you've said that the only thing saving me from your vote is my ICness. Good thing I'm an IC....?
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
I'm glad you posted this, cause you've been all over the map in the past few hours. If you weren't IC, I'd be voting for you.
Excellent example of f.ds usually going after wrong stuff day 1. Yeah I'm bitter because the wrong stuff has been me so often.
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Vote Count 1.11:
NO CHANGE
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 20 minutes.
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Why arent you calling me to re-evaluate my read? Afaik Robz isnt even online.
And at the risk of an echo, why aren't you calling for me to re-evaluate my read on Insomniac?
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Why arent you calling me to re-evaluate my read? Afaik Robz isnt even online.
And at the risk of an echo, why aren't you calling for me to re-evaluate my read on Insomniac?
I've called EVERYONE out to reconsider Robz. I'd move to Insomniac (or you) if shraeye agreed to.
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I don't like the silence from RobZ, and SFS only popping out after prompting.
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Shraeye I'd like to know if you'd consider switching to anyone, if not I guess I have to switch to Galzria and not like it.
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Small Edit to my most recent post. In second paragraph I said SFS has followed me. I meant Insomniac.
I'm glad you posted this, cause you've been all over the map in the past few hours. If you weren't IC, I'd be voting for you.
Great, that's the second time you've said that the only thing saving me from your vote is my ICness. Good thing I'm an IC....?
Well quite frankly, I'm not sure at this point that it's good. I love your you taking charge, as I strongly believe ICs have a useful purpose, but you are really muddying the waters here.
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I was thinking about people who had expressed reads on Galzria. I'm not concerned with your read on Insomniac. It could be wrong, it could be right. I'm having trouble classifying Insom. but you haven't stated a town or scum read on Galz, so there's no need to "reevaluate"
you just need to evaluate for the first time.
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Shraeye I'd like to know if you'd consider switching to anyone, if not I guess I have to switch to Galzria and not like it.
No, I am sold on Galz. I was a while ago, and the difficulty in lynching him, plus his responses to suspicion have sold me on his case 100 times over.
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Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 15 minutes.
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Shraeye / jimmm - do you think there's any chance that both Galz and Eevee are town?
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@Galz - why do you have a townread on eevee?
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Shraeye I'd like to know if you'd consider switching to anyone, if not I guess I have to switch to Galzria and not like it.
No, I am sold on Galz. I was a while ago, and the difficulty in lynching him, plus his responses to suspicion have sold me on his case 100 times over.
If I'm lynched, I hope you'll reevaluate your ability to make quality reads.
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Shraeye / jimmm - do you think there's any chance that both Galz and Eevee are town?
Fwiw I obv think there is a good chance of this.
Vote: Galzria though because I don't want to die >:/
Really shraeye, change your vote to ANYONE but me and I'll follow. Please!
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Vote Count 1.12:
Eevee (3, u3): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (3, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac, Eevee
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1, u2): Galzria, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 10 minutes.
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Galzria only has 3 unique right now.
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I don't like the silence from RobZ, and SFS only popping out after prompting.
My RL has been falling apart in the past few hours. I may wake up in the same situation Eevee found himself in last week. So unfortunately, I've not been hiding. I'm likely gone for the evening.
Frisk, thanks for the advice in the post ZM3 discussion. It has helped me stay there, not here.
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RobZ is allegedly online, but hasn't posted here in an hour.
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Galzria only has 3 unique right now.
Fixed. Thanks.
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Sorry to hear that SfS. :(
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@Galz - why do you have a townread on eevee?
Because you, me, Robz and Insomniac came out quickly against his proposed idea. This tells me that at least one scum disagrees.
This alone gives me a townie feel, but it's not inconceivable for scum to bus that early.
I just... Don't see them asking scum!Eevee to come out taking that strong a stance on something. It's asking to be picked apart, and for a lynch of Eevee, as seems possible now.
This stance just seems so much more likely to be something town!Eevee would do over scum!Eevee.
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Shraeye / jimmm - do you think there's any chance that both Galz and Eevee are town?
Yes, there is a chance of this. If I'm way off on Galz (don't think I am), then Eevee is not slamdunk scum tomorrow.
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Where is RobZ?
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I agree with Galzria SO MUCH. I'm really pissed atm it's either me or him (even though he is sneaky enough to be scum despite my enormous town read on him). Still hoping shraeye will use these 7 minutes to vote for anyone else, I'm f5'ing like a mad man to follow in suit.
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@RobZ - if you don't post - I am switching to you.
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Shraeye / jimmm - do you think there's any chance that both Galz and Eevee are town?
Fwiw I obv think there is a good chance of this.
Vote: Galzria though because I don't want to die >:/
Really shraeye, change your vote to ANYONE but me and I'll follow. Please!
I hate this. I really do. I wish we could've gotten Robz instead. Vote: Eevee since I'm more certain I'm town than I'm certain he is.
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@RobZ - if you don't post - I am switching to you.
He's reading this thread as of 8:54
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@Galz - why do you have a townread on eevee?
Because you, me, Robz and Insomniac came out quickly against his proposed idea. This tells me that at least one scum disagrees.
This alone gives me a townie feel, but it's not inconceivable for scum to bus that early.
I just... Don't see them asking scum!Eevee to come out taking that strong a stance on something. It's asking to be picked apart, and for a lynch of Eevee, as seems possible now.
This stance just seems so much more likely to be something town!Eevee would do over scum!Eevee.
Scumeevee is capable of taking strong stances on things. It's what helped along the first days of RMM3. Don't sell him short in the scum department.
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Vote: Robz888 lets do this instead come on.
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Vote Count 1.13:
Eevee (4, u4): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1, u2): Galzria, Eevee, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 5 minutes.
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Man - this galz / eevee thing is really making me angry - I'm so certain that this is cooked up in their daychat.
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although snap wagons on deadline are way easier to form on town :/ idk still, robz is SO MUCH scummier than galz and i know i'm town.
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Man - this galz / eevee thing is really making me angry - I'm so certain that this is cooked up in their daychat.
Agree.
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>________> 4 minutes and i'm dying, not liking this. TAKE ACTION GUYS WHO ARE TOWN, PLEASE
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I am taking action i'm comfortable with!
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Well, not about the daychat bit, just the frustration. I keep refreshing to see if people are listening to me about Galz yet. And now Eevee's voted Robz...
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Vote Count 1.14:
Eevee (4, u4): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1, u2): Galzria, Eevee, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 3 minutes.
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Okay I feel my lynch is scum driven just because. Idk. Rememer my town read on Galzria. SfS Robz Frisk Ins all scummy :/
Robz and Frisk actually the scummiest, Frisk just because I'm mad at his most recent behavior. shraeye agrees though so i guess it's understandable then.
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Now he's back to looking at unread topics. (RobZ)
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well vote: galzria shraeye clearly isnt following me to robz.
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Vote: RobZ
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vote: robz ?
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90 seconds folks. RobZ is intetionally lurking. I don't care if we lose - he has to die.
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shraeye robz has got to be better than me?
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Vote Count 1.15:
Eevee (3, u4): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (2, u2): Galzria, Eevee, Captain_Frisk, Eevee
Not voting (0):
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends Friday, November 16 at 9:00 p.m. forum time. -- That's in 2 minutes.
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if so please hammer his ass.
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Vote: Robz
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shraeye you get to pick me or robz.
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Hurry dudes.
Jim - seriously where the hell are you?
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pleaaaase pretty please
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Thread locked.
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Vote Count 1.16:
Eevee (2, u4): Jimmmmm, Robz888, Captain_Frisk, Galzria
SwitchedFromStarcraft (0, u2): Robz888, Insomniac
Galzria (2, u3): shraeye, Eevee, shraeye, Insomniac
Insomniac (1, u2): shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (3, u3): Galzria, Eevee, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Galzria
Not voting (0)
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Flip coming shortly.
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Flavour courtesy of ashersky!
They were amused by the ramblings of the humans. They grinned wide while watching the monitors, with the bickering and whispering.
They never really came to a consensus. A plurality thought Robz888 must be mafia, and so they made everyone else help pull him over to the noose, now lowered to head level automatically. It slowly slid upward, strangling Robz888. And then they waited.
Congratulations, humans. You chose wisely. Robz888 was a Mafia Goon. Unfortunately for you, his dying wish, whispered to himself, was caught by our monitoring system as an execute command, and shraeye, the Innocent Child was, well, executed. We’ve fixed that glitch. Continue.
Day 2 has begun.
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Unique votes are reset.
Day 2 ends Monday, November 19 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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FUCK YEAH.
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Lynch all lurkers mother ........
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Oh crap. My heart. I was literally shaking at the end of that.
Hey! WHOOOO!
Ahem. Sorry.
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Ok - i"m out for a while , i'll check in over the weekend.
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Ok - i"m out for a while , i'll check in over the weekend.
I'm checking out of this game for tonight too. I need a respite and I've got other games being completely ignored.
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I DIDNT REALIZE I GET TO POST RIGHT AWAY YAY.
Am I obvtown now? I'm asking seriously, how do you interpret the last 30 minutes of "yesterday"?
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I DIDNT REALIZE I GET TO POST RIGHT AWAY YAY.
Am I obvtown now? I'm asking seriously, how do you interpret the last 30 minutes of "yesterday"?
I... Don't even know, and I really don't have the mental capacity to deal with it. I feel so eff'ing vindicated though. I'm going to get smashed.
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I'm already smashed, going to sleeps soonish. Fwiw sort of accidentally discussed the game a bit with shraeye on iso, he was feeling bad about playing a bad game as an IC, I said "no dude I think you played well, we hit scum!! .. even though you didnt participate directly i guess" and he answered "i know, i was considering voting for him but i was so sold on Galzria.."
Sorry about that, it's not that big of a deal in my opinion since it's fairly obvious shraeye thought that (he said it ITT like 5+ times), but still better to share it.
Oh and mandatory "that's what you get for lurking, Robz!" here too.
I encourage everyone to read through the last 30 minutes of yesterday. PLENTY of info to be gained from there I pressume. Less to myself because I know my alignment already (and I was one of the major players in the craziness), but I'll make sure to reread that tomorrow still.
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Galzria changed his vote from me to Robz to hammer him, and Robz was mafia. That makes like no sense to me if Galzria is mafia himself, so I'm fairly confident the scum is between Insomniac, SfS and Frisk. Frisk helped us nail Robz, which gives him A LOT of town cred because it would have been like super easy for him to get me or Galz lynched, so I'm fairly confident it's Insomniac - SfS.
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Incidentally the that's the two guys who didn't help us lynch mafia day 1..
Unless ashersky wants to modkill me for the conversation with shraeye (that's really the extent of it, I told him we shouldn't discuss the game yet and he agreed and apologized), I'm fairly confident we are good here.
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Not buying that you two are clear btw.
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Unless ashersky wants to modkill me for the conversation with shraeye (that's really the extent of it, I told him we shouldn't discuss the game yet and he agreed and apologized), I'm fairly confident we are good here.
If someone has a problem with this, PM me. I don't particularly like it, but it sounds like no harm was done, and am okay with a stern warning, unless I receive complaints. No mod kill.
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Unless ashersky wants to modkill me for the conversation with shraeye (that's really the extent of it, I told him we shouldn't discuss the game yet and he agreed and apologized), I'm fairly confident we are good here.
If someone has a problem with this, PM me. I don't particularly like it, but it sounds like no harm was done, and am okay with a stern warning, unless I receive complaints. No mod kill.
:)
Sorry again for semi-breaking the rules though. Wasn't done with a malicious intent.
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Not buying that you two are clear btw.
You should read back and build alternative narratives so we can evaluate. I guess you agree that SfS or Ins is the best lynch for today? I'm leaning towards SfS first, because I had a gut-based scum read on him right from his first longer post (interestingly, Insomniac defended him when I posted about that...). I think Ins has looked scummy, but he always always does to me so that's less of an argument.
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Plenty of discussion to be had still obviously. My availability for the next 30 hours will be spotty, but I'll be online pretty much all of sunday to compensate.
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Before you and galz switched who would have been lynched? If you guys could get some cred - then it seems reasonable?
Would olrobz really just sit there and not post?
I suspect someone told him to not post
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who would be a bigger authority than Robz in these games? i think it was his own decision.
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Before you and galz switched who would have been lynched? If you guys could get some cred - then it seems reasonable?
Would olrobz really just sit there and not post?
I suspect someone told him to not post
Alright, I'm a little calmer now (and quickly getting drunker).
I think that my vote was the last to move, and atty that time, Eevee was at 3, I was at 2 - however I was also the last to leave Robz in the first place.
From my perspective, for Eevee to be scum, he would've wanted to bus Robz all day over the very easy mislynch of me proposed by the IC that he proposed to follow earlier in the day )I don't gold toy to that Eevee, I'm just pointing our why I was right - because it seems I get few chances to do so these days)
Anyway my point is it would've been WAY to easy for scum!eevvee to mislynch me without a lot of consequence since it's what Shraeye wanted.
For me to believe CF is scum means that I would have to believe that when push came to shove, he decided that going after lurking scumbuffy Robz was better than just letting the eevee lynch go down - as it was in place to do. While it's certainly conceivable, it doesn't seen particularly likely to me - the trade off of some town cred (and not a lot given it was as last minute snap decision which could be scum orchestrated) in exchange for being one lynch from a loss just doesn't seem to be good value. But what do I know?
This brings me to Insomniac and SFS. If the last few games have taught me anything it's to trust my reads and not second guess myself. I was right about Robz. I think I'm right about Insomniac too. But I'm open to discussion. I really, really hate being wrong though and everytime I start second guessing myself I fuck things up.
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I am starting a reread - everyone neutral except me obviously.
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Also maybe I'm bitter for being strangled but scum team is totally CF, Eevee, Robz
Interesting. Why not the real scum team responsible for his strangling?
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The thing is Eevee, I see what you're driving for, but I think you're not understanding the value of the lost information. You simply cannot "recreate" or "psydocreate" the same feelings of scummy vs not-scummy behavior without real votes and stances and arguments that lead somewhere. "I would vote X" is such an easy thing to fake.
Further, while your premise that "in a vacuum, IC's would have a 50% chance"is accurate, we are not in a vacuum. And I think that what your suggestion boils down to is "Let's have the two sides debate, and the IC's pick the winner". It doesn't account for the fact that you're essentially turning the game into a straight oratorical contest, rather than what's scummy and what's not.
Robz is probably a better orator than I am. He likes to claim he's better than Insomniac (See: M-III, following M-II ;D). If he's scum, he can probably "out-debate" me - and there's not a lot I can do about it.
Further to that point, what if he's town as well? Do the IC's open the next day saying "Well Galz wasn't scum, so Robz must be" - or do they put it up to another debate?
I think that while, on the surface it might be 50/50, you're actually changing the nature of the game to take away information analysis, and in it's place those who are stronger orators will prevail - for whichever alignment they are on.
First person to meaningfully mention robz.
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I fear shraeye thinks he has found a scum slip in a post of mine and if that's the case, I'm as good as dead because changing shraeye's mind is hard. The more I've thought about this, the more a creeping suspicion that Galz is indeed scum has risen. I suspect Robz too, but less so than Galzria.
Eevee fears scum slip.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
I fear scum slip.
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Hey Frisk, who of the unconfirmed players (other than yourself) would you stake the game right now on them being town?
Why would I bet the game on one player being town?
I'm really afraid that you think the scumslip was me, and you're scum hunting me with this question.
Why would you be afraid of making a scumslip, if you're not scum?
Because shraeye might incorrectly identify me as scum and toss the game tunnelling in on me?
Scum Frisk makes scumslips though. So you shouldn't be worried about that if you're town, as you insist, right? I hardly think there's going to be a really obvious scumslip buried in those posts that incriminates you (or anyone) since none of us can find it.
Robz gives me the business for fearing scum slip....?
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Just got back, will look for the scumslip in a minute.
@Robz
Give me two scum candidates. Ranked or unranked.
SFS and Eevee. And actually, I will Vote: SFS
I HATE when people try to restart RVS when we've already moved out of RVS. This is doubly true in Blitz mafia, where we only have 24 hours to lynch somebody. It's something I think scum does--the awkward interjection of humor early on, when it's not called for, due to discomfort with being scum. I could definitely see SFS doing it.
Eevee's argument is so wrong, and it's been explained to him why it's wrong by every player (except SFS! interesting), including the ICs. I can't think of a reason why town Eevee would cling to the argument, but there could be a scum-Eevee reason to do so that I just haven't thought of.
Will look for the scumslip.
It takes robz a while, but he finally answers the question.
As scum, would robz really pick 2 townies? My guess is thAat either SFS or Eevee is scum.
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@Frisk I agree, and would play this setup again in a heartbeat. I'm already loving it.
Insom, who are your top two scum reads?
SFS - I have a case beyond the Jimm thing and I'll be happy to share it later, if I share it now it loses it's merit because he can change what I am finding to be his damning trait as scum.
The other eh? I think Eevee could be scum but it's not like Eevee to propose bad ideas as scum he tries to blend in more (I think?), CF again could be but I've been finding his play somewhat townish. I think Galz is mislead town so I guess Robz.
As Galz said Robz came in and kind of agreed with what was already happening and he's been a bit more lurky then Robz normally is as a VT. The last part to explain Robz is NOT an IC therefore Robz is either a Goon or a VT, I have not seen Robz lurk when he's a VT because he isn't trying to hide the fact that he has a PR (see his somewhat lurky agreeable state in MXIV)
Hey hey hey, not fair to call me a lurker. I do not wake up early--that's my lifestyle. I seldom post before 11:00 AM in any forum thread, and I was running late today. Last night, I was posting, but nobody else was around. shraeye didn't appear until I had gone to bed.
On Eevee, why do you think scum Eevee tries to blend in? The only experience I can think of with scum Eevee is MIII, and that was SO long ago.
Defensive on his #2 scum read.
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Is this shraeye's phantom scumslip?
In reality it will obviously be all but random, and scum not being able to choose who they vote will make daychat a lot less useful.
The reason it could be construed as a scumslip, I guess, is that it's really, really, wrong. I imagine daychat is probably super useful, they can vet whatever they want to say with each other first. So daychat strikes me as a great thing for scum, even if they abdicate their votes to ICs.
Eevee trying to downplay the usefulness of daychat, if we agreed to his plan, is that the intended slip?
Robz imagines day chat is usefull.
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SFS does not A) know what a scumslip is, or B) answer shraeye's question.
Actually, that kind of fits SFS though. What scum-SFS noticeably different in Blitz3 from typical town SFS? I sort of stopped paying attention after I was nightkilled, maybe Frisk or Galz or shraeye have an opinion on that?
Does not aggressively push case.
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@Robz I have been involved and fully read every game SFS has been involved in and will be posting my case soon so long as shraeye things its alright this early mostly I wanted SFS to make another post before I said it to cement that he was in fact doing what I thought he was.
Interesting.
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@SFS: Yeah, I read what you write. I'm not sure why Frisk is confused. Frisk is being too defensive, in my opinion. I haven't moved off the fact that he was paranoid the scumslip was his.
But I still find you pretty scummy, although this is a situation where I really don't think both of you would be scum. Your conversations at each other are just too weird for you to be together. SFS's delayed RVS is still my major reason for suspecting him. Can I get that Insomniac case on SFS now?
Tries to get me as defensive, sticks with sfs
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What's the case against Galzria? He's the leading lynch candidate, but definitely on the townier side as far as I can tell. I do think an SFS lynch is superior there. Although, I can't really tell if SFS is super guilty of the posting style that Insomniac accused him of.
I'm also annoyed--although it's not his fault, IRL stuff--that Eevee is clearly not going to be around much more, and just disappearing for the rest of the day is probably a pretty good way to avoid getting lynched. At least it has been as we approached deadlines in other games. It would be one thing if I didn't suspect Eevee, but I do.
Then there's Frisk, and I've posted my suspicion of Frisk: his paranoia about the scumslip I did think was scummy, but I'm the only one who seems to have noticed it. Of course, some of the people may have not noticed it on purpose in order to protect Frisk, if he is scum.
That leaves Insomniac, who I don't have any specific suspicions of at the moment.
So I guess I'm like this right now:
Would lynch: SFS, Eevee
Might lynch: Frisk
Very hesitant to lynch: Galzria, Insomniac
PPE Looks like Frisk and Insomniac are on the same page as me.
Consistent with prev sumreads
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Uh.... SFS, Eevee, Galzria scum team?
A strange team. Isn't Eevee's vote on Galzria, and he has expressed a scumread on SFS??
I didn't remember where Eevee's vote was, and he hadn't expressed the scumread at the time I wrote the post (PPE fail).
But, look, scum are going to be "expressing scumreads" on their scumbuddies, for sure for sure.
No comment necessary?
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Why would he have genuine worry abou having committed the scumslip, unless he was the scum who made it? Maybe you don't know this, but the biggest authentic scumslip in the history of forum mafia was made by Frisk in M-VIII.
I know about Frisk's slip, but that's irrelevant here.
I am often worried about making slips as town because I feel they'll mislead town and create a mislynch. That is the feeling I get from Frisk here.
Do you actually, though? I've only ever worried about making slips when I was mafia. And if I was told a slip had been made, I would only be especially worried it was me if I were mafia.
Robz legitimately trying to cause suspicion on a townie, but using legit argument.
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Robz, would you be absolutely against an Insom lynch today?
I'm not absolutely against it, but I do have a really different read on him than you do. I think he's acting just like town Insomniac. It's possible that Insomniac has learned how to fool me by now, and he's definitely pulled it off in M-XII. Here's my order, though:
Eevee--SFS--Frisk--Insomniac--Galzria--Me
I'm definitely most suspicious of SFS and Eevee. I'll drop SFS from consideration per your request, though, since I do see some towniness out of his more recent responses, and I'm more sold on Eevee anyway. Vote: Eevee
Votes Eevee
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Conclusion: no idea.
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I think my conclusion from all that is that SfS looks even worse than he did earlier. Pretty much convinced he is scum now.
Other scum Insomniac >>>>>>>>>>> Frisk >> Galzria, but that won't matter because we can just nail SfS and win.
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Hey guys, sorry for my absence. Too much work!
Nice work with the last-minute lynch. Impressed.
Now it seems pretty straightforward. Eevee, Galz and Frisk are town, leaving Insom and SFS as the other Mafia. That seems most likely.
I think out of Eevee, Galz and Frisk, the most likely one to be scum is Eevee. If he was Town, and either one of Galz or Frisk was Mafia, they wouldn't be jumping on Robz in the last minute when they already had Eevee dead in the water. I guess if Eevee is scum, that seems to indicate that Galz is scum as well, otherwise Eevee would have targeted him instead of Robz.
So I think the two possibilities for the remaining scum are {Insom, SFS} (~75%), and {Eevee, Galz} (~25%).
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Hurray. I'm not scum but I'm confident if you lynch me then sfs or vice versa we win. Vote: Sfs
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Vote Count 2.1:
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1, u1): Insomniac
Not voting (5): Jimmmmm, Captain_Frisk, Galzria, Eevee, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
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What do we think of Insomniac's vote on SfS? Is it designed to make me (us) think they can't be a scum pair, or what?
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What do we think of Insomniac's vote on SfS? Is it designed to make me (us) think they can't be a scum pair, or what?
Personally, based off yesterday's interactions, I would rather lynch Insomniac first over SFS. If they're both scum, it won't matter, but if only one is (which would mean you or CF bussed Robz - which I don't find EXTREMELY likely, I won't rule out), it seems MUCH more likely to me that it would be Robz/Ins/{Eevee, CF} than it would be Robz/SFS/{Eevee, CF}.
Ins vote on SFS is one of three things:
Scum trying to make us believe there's NO way he would vote for his other teammate, this he (Ins) can't be scum.
Scum playing into our beliefs that they're both *likely* scum, but we should lynch SFS first.
Town who knows SFS must be scum and that somebody bussed.
But he never even mentioned the logic in choice #3. He just came out and voted. I had a scumm(ish) read on Ins yesterday, and after my read of Robz was correct, I would rather trust my reads and not second guess myself. My track record of doing so has been, well, crap.
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Again guys I assure you I'm town and thus not on a team with sfs. So if you need to lynch me first fine but it can be a flawless town win if we lunch sfs first
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Again guys I assure you I'm town and thus not on a team with sfs. So if you need to lynch me first fine but it can be a flawless town win if we lunch sfs first
If sfs is town - who woul you want to lynch tomorrow?
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@CF he isn't town but I would go for Eevee if he was
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Vote: SFS.
I also would probably vote Eevee is SFS is Town.
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Vote Count 2.2:
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Insomniac, Jimmmmm
Not voting (4): Captain_Frisk, Galzria, Eevee, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
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Pretty slow day for blitz, eh? Has SfS told us where he is?
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Personally I've just been avoiding the forums for the most part today. Last nights gaming was just really draining. I'm probably going to put my vote down on Insomniac though. I want to reread once first, but that won't happen tonight. I just feel so very much more convinced that Insomniac would be scum before SFS would based off yesterdays play (in reality, they're probably both scum, but I would rather not risk going down to the wire, so I would rather lynch my bigger scum read of the two).
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Galz/Eevee if you are town I'm a little frustrated you cant read me after all these games together btw
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Galz/Eevee if you are town I'm a little frustrated you cant read me after all these games together btw
I've said it before and I say it again, I've always been terrible at reading you. Huge scum bias for some reason.
I do think I read SfS pretty good, and he reeks of scum to me even without the evidence that's also pretty damning.
I hope Galz is town and his insistence to go after you first is just him reading you better than SfS. Because the alternative is he is mafia and is working on salvaging the game for scum.
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Galzria, do you think town SfS would disappear on us like this?
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Galzria, do you think town SfS would disappear on us like this?
I'VE disappeared on us like this, only taking minimal actions in games this weekend - but I understand your question. Tough to say. SFS will absolutely put family first, especially after you read his post-game in ZM-3. I would say that after Robz lynch scum would be afraid to lurk, but we're all sitting back atm.
I could absolutely 100% see SFS as scum. His play has been the strangest I've ever seen it. We can also afford a mislynch here when push comes to shove, so if we decide to go after SFS first then I'll accept that. I just feel a whole lot more uncomfortable with Insomniac's play yesterday on the whole. I'll probably be putting in my reread tonight, so I'll look more closely at those two.
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Galzria, do you think town SfS would disappear on us like this?
I'VE disappeared on us like this, only taking minimal actions in games this weekend - but I understand your question. Tough to say. SFS will absolutely put family first, especially after you read his post-game in ZM-3. I would say that after Robz lynch scum would be afraid to lurk, but we're all sitting back atm.
I could absolutely 100% see SFS as scum. His play has been the strangest I've ever seen it. We can also afford a mislynch here when push comes to shove, so if we decide to go after SFS first then I'll accept that. I just feel a whole lot more uncomfortable with Insomniac's play yesterday on the whole. I'll probably be putting in my reread tonight, so I'll look more closely at those two.
I don't think you or me are lurking. Just pretty pointless for the two of us to post when others aren't here and we both think the other is probably town. Like, I'd wish to see Insomniac and SfS building narratives where they aren't the scum pair tbh.. And I guess Ins has been with his vote on SfS and everything. SfS on the other hand, hasn't posted once all day 2? Like obviously he should put his family first and it's fine if he is busy, but I don't think he announced he'd be gone? I think SfS wouldn't disappear without saying anything if he was town. Feels like he is scum and just realizes he has no defense.
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Vote Count 2.3:
No change.
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2, u2): Insomniac, Jimmmmm
Not voting (4): Captain_Frisk, Galzria, Eevee, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 2 ends Monday, November 19 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
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About 30 hours until deadline fwiw.
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About 30 hours until deadline fwiw.
I'll have my reread done tonight and I'll be on all tomorrow (I may not post my feelings after the reread until the morning however).
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Galz's insistence on Ins over SfS combined to Insomniac's vote on SfS is starting to make him a little more suspicious to me fwiw.
I'm very ready to vote for SfS at this point.
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Galz's insistence on Ins over SfS combined to Insomniac's vote on SfS is starting to make him a little more suspicious to me fwiw.
I'm very ready to vote for SfS at this point.
I think you've misread what I said. I'm perfectly ok with voting SFS. Worst case scenario is I get to say "I told you so" tomorrow as we'll be in lylo at that point. Best case scenario is SFS is indeed scum and the game ends.
I've said my "preferred" lynch is Insomniac. I think he's scum. But given Towns position right now I'm not *required* to be right (which is a huge change since it seems every game is that way recently).
Do you want to lynch SFS now? We can 1-2 hammer. I would rather do a reread of the two first though.
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If you have the energy to do a reread, I think you absolutely should before hammering. I mean why not?
On the other hand there will be no nightkill (no need to get the info up today) and I don't really see myself voting for anyone else so..
Again, SfS has 0 posts today. Waiting also gives him a chance to come here and convince us somehow.
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I do agree with you in that Insomniac is my #1 pick for the third mafia. But if we lynched Ins and he flipped town, I'd suspect you more than Frisk. Really hoping it won't go to that though.
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Galz's insistence on Ins over SfS combined to Insomniac's vote on SfS is starting to make him a little more suspicious to me fwiw.
I'm very ready to vote for SfS at this point.
I think you've misread what I said. I'm perfectly ok with voting SFS. Worst case scenario is I get to say "I told you so" tomorrow as we'll be in lylo at that point. Best case scenario is SFS is indeed scum and the game ends.
I've said my "preferred" lynch is Insomniac. I think he's scum. But given Towns position right now I'm not *required* to be right (which is a huge change since it seems every game is that way recently).
Do you want to lynch SFS now? We can 1-2 hammer. I would rather do a reread of the two first though.
I should clarify this:
I'm perfectly willing to 1-2 hammer right now, but not only would I much prefer a reread, I also think it's incredibly poor sportsmanship to lynch sometime over lurking over the weekend when you know very well that many of our players aren't around during Saturday/Sunday, and most don't say anything - it's just accepted, which is why the deadline was automatically extended.
That said, from my position, it would suck to mislynch, but we cannot lose today in doing so - so I would indeed be willing to, with full apologies to SFS for doing so when he's not around to even post why we should think he's town over Insomniac.
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That is fair, and I agree. However, with this being a blitz game, I think it's not unreasonable to expect people to tell if they'll be COMPLETELY unavailable for most of the day. Again, it's fine to be busy, but good for town and also polite to announce if that's going to be the case for this long.
So yeah, do your reread, maybe you'll catch something!
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Oy - I haven't read whatever the hell you guys are talking about, but no hammering!
You guys know what my weekends are like. The day was extended to 9pm tomorrow for a reason.
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One of them tapped at the monitor, willing something to happen. They looked at each other and shrugged. Another leaned forward and pressed a button.
"You have 24 Earth hours remaining to make your next decision. We suggest you use them wisely."
Day 2 ends Monday, November 19 at 9:00 p.m. forum time.
That's 24 hours from now. Re-commence "Blitz" portion of the game.
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I'm awake and getting caught up.
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Hey Galz + Eevee
You realize that if you think that 1-2 hammering SFS will result in catching scum on SFS, that either insomniac is BUSSING his buddy (and losing the game), or I am his scum buddy?
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For those of you who may not have understood the message in my 411, I apologize for not being more specific, but at the time I couldn't force myself to actually write the words. Things are better today, but a lot of work went into the past two days, and I don't want to undo that today by spending too much time here. So I'll be as brief as I can be.
I am going to VOTE: Eevee, and here's why. Some of these reasons are general, some are specific.
1) I feel that, beginning shortly after Robz lynch, he began tunnelling me, using several themes, my absence being principal among them, which is clever given his acknowledgement of my 411 in his 414, and...
2) He lurked. Look at his posts from the time he went to mobile posting in the hours prior to the lynch. It's clear (and I don't think it's being faked at all) that he was getting progressively more inebriated. Lots of typos, etc. Yet look at the enormous change when he got home. Beginning in 363 : "I'm home now and will be online after the deadline which is in 61 minutes if I'm not mistaken." We suddenly have much longer sentences, no misspellings, perfect punctuation. I'm sure he will chalk that up to the switch back to the keyboard, but look at the sentence structures and word choices - "incidently" (in 457); "semi-breaking" (in 461); "compensate" in 463 (in fact, that whole sentence, like 363, is so crisp it could come out of the mouth of Peter Jennings: "My availability for the next 30 hours will be spotty, but I'll be online pretty much all of sunday to compensate." Look at the cogency of the reply to Frisk in 468 (though the capitalization is off). His being out let him avoid a LOT of input during that mafia Day.
3) He misrepresented my stance on his "sheep the IC" plan, and when I called him on it, he said that responding, particularly by phone, seemed not worth the effort. Yet it was not too much effort to interrupt his time with this frieds (who "hate this forum") to be back home 61 minutes before the deadline.
3) In 408, after expressing several times that Galz was by then his top town read, he votes for Galz to save himself. I can see moving your own vote to save yourself, but why vote for your top town read?
4) In 419, Frisk says "Robz, if you don't post, I'm switching to you". That is the door opening for Eevee. In 423, he moves to Robz and entreats us all to join him. This is a bus, and he couldn't wait any longer, he just hopes Frisk comes aboard, along with someone else.
5) Then we have this (432), to "explain" the Robz vote"
Okay I feel my lynch is scum driven just because. Idk. Rememer my town read on Galzria. SfS Robz Frisk Ins all scummy :/
Robz and Frisk actually the scummiest, Frisk just because I'm mad at his most recent behavior. shraeye agrees though so i guess it's understandable then.
So Robz is now the scummiest, and Frisk is not really scummy, Eevee is just mad at him. Eevee is careful to remind us that Shraeye agrees.
6) In 434, he goes back to voting for Galz, cause Shraeye didn't follow him to Robz. Nine seconds later, Frisk votes for Robz, and 17 seconds after that, Eevee is back to Robz, with a question mark:
vote: robz ?
Everything Eevee did yesterday (still can't figure out how to refer to days, with no night phases) seems extremely opportunistic and scummy.
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In point #3,"this frieds" is "his friends".
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
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SfS first of all, I'm sorry. I now realized you had/have IRL issues that obviously are an okay reason for not being here yesterday. Luckily that wasn't the main thing in my case against you anyways.
@Frisk
I know, I did point out how weird Insomniac's SfS vote was earlier. Still don't know what to make of it. Maybe he thought his team would be lost either way and went for the hail mary thinking he could maybe clear them both that way? Don't understand really.
@SfS
You are accusing me of being opportunistic. Look how well that turned out, we lynched mafia.
2. I did my best to post. I was very active right before the deadline and I was very active right after the thread opened. I've also been here all day 2.
3. Yeah, I rushed home 2am to meet the 3am deadline, don't know what's so weird about that. I usually get home around that time anyway. I'm sorry if misinterpreted your stance on my proposal. The thing is, it was clear town didn't want to go that route anyways, so I didn't think it was worth discussing anymore. After all, if townies legitimately oppose the idea, mafia was not going to be dishonest about it either way.
3. I saw it as a me or him situation. It didn't took me very many SECONDS to vote for Robz when that door opened. If I was mafia and Galzria was town, why wouldn't I just pretend I missed the Robz vote and let the Galz lynch go through?
4. Idk all you calling me, Galzria and Robz the scum trio or what? Frisk, me and Galzria made a mafia lynch happen. We were the guys on the mafia lynch wagon. Somehow you make it seem like you and Ins are the innocent ones and we acted scummy close to the deadline.
5. Frisk gained a helluva lot town cred by being the one to make the Robz lynch possible.
6. It was opportunistic in that all I did was to try to meet my wincon. :) We also succeeded, we hit mafia. I don't understand.. seems like you are trying to spin our deadline actions into a bad thing even though we managed to get town in an AWESOME shape by lynching mafia.
Idk, I still think SfS is just so mafia-y. I agree it's weird because it's hard to find a partner for him, but he looks SO bad I still think he is the best lynch.
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Also, I hope things get better for you.
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Also, I hope things get better for you.
This though. Me too.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I could believe it - the "bussing" of robz makes sense if the other alternatives to the lynch are Scum1 and Scum2.
I could also believe Insomniac. The only people I can't believe are myself and you Jimbo.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I could believe it - the "bussing" of robz makes sense if the other alternatives to the lynch are Scum1 and Scum2.
I could also believe Insomniac. The only people I can't believe are myself and you Jimbo.
We would have had to think of the robz-bus plan hella fast for us to both be mafia. Remember the first guy to vote for Robz was you, and there wasnt much time. I can't speak for Galzria (who I acknowledge could be scum), but your vote for Robz was a very pleasant surprise for me personally. I literally followed you RIGHT after I saw it. Meaning that there wouldn't have been time to cook up anything in the day chat.
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I am seriously considering putting SFS @ L-1.
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If I did so - who would hammer?
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
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I am seriously considering putting SFS @ L-1.
I wouldn't mind (doubt anyone but me would hammer). His scum buddy would need to be Insomniac (unlikely) or Galzria (unlikely), but I still think it's the most likely scenario. This day 2 got pretty weird. Galzria wanting to go after Insomniac first still makes him more suspect I think. If we mislynch today, Insomniac has GOT TO be mafia, so I don't think it's all that bad.
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If I did so - who would hammer?
I would eventually. Doubt anyone else would, because even if SfS is town, mafia knows I'll do the deed eventually either way.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
If I'm not completely mistaken, had Galzria not voted for Robz, he would have died himself. Got to read the end of yesterday again though.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I could believe it - the "bussing" of robz makes sense if the other alternatives to the lynch are Scum1 and Scum2.
I could also believe Insomniac. The only people I can't believe are myself and you Jimbo.
Maybe we should lynch you both. :)
I know what you mean though, I loved the way Shraeye jumped in and took charge, and I felt like he was making good scumhunting progress, being focussed, not letting anyone skate on anything, then he got incredibly squirrelly. And apparently didn't like that I was pointing it out to him.
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@Galz - would you hammer if I put SFS @ L-1?
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I am seriously considering putting SFS @ L-1.
I wouldn't mind (doubt anyone but me would hammer). His scum buddy would need to be Insomniac (unlikely) or Galzria (unlikely), but I still think it's the most likely scenario. This day 2 got pretty weird. Galzria wanting to go after Insomniac first still makes him more suspect I think. If we mislynch today, Insomniac has GOT TO be mafia, so I don't think it's all that bad.
You've made this statement a couple of times now - why is it suspicious of me to want to lynch Insomniac first? You've been going out of your way to protect him today. Just saying.
If I did so - who would hammer?
I would absolutely hammer. I think he's a 35% chance to be scum (to 65% on Insomniac), but given Towns position right now that seems to be an acceptable percentage to try an win out right on.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
I really can't see either of Galz or Frisk being scum if Eevee isn't.
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Okay so yeah whatever happens, I think Frisk just has got to be town. In shraeye's words, I'm willing to stake the game on it. I was the one on the lynching block until the out of the blue Robz-vote by Frisk (good job!). Then I followed to Robz, which again put me in the danger (although I didn't know who was getting lynched at that point tbh, it was too hectic). Galzria saving me with the last minute Robz vote is just an awfully towny thing to do too. So idk, even though Insomniac-SfS makes very little sense... nothing else does either?
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Here you go Galz (not eevee)
Vote: SFS
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I could believe it - the "bussing" of robz makes sense if the other alternatives to the lynch are Scum1 and Scum2.
I could also believe Insomniac. The only people I can't believe are myself and you Jimbo.
We would have had to think of the robz-bus plan hella fast for us to both be mafia. Remember the first guy to vote for Robz was you, and there wasnt much time. I can't speak for Galzria (who I acknowledge could be scum), but your vote for Robz was a very pleasant surprise for me personally. I literally followed you RIGHT after I saw it. Meaning that there wouldn't have been time to cook up anything in the day chat.
Whoa, say what?
Who is the "we" in the first sentence? You and Frisk? You, as scum, don't need to formulate a plan to bus your teammate. I am asserting that you started the bus as late as you dared, abandoned it when it appeared to be not working, got lucky and jumped on again.
I find it noteworthy that you are now addressing Frisk with this "argument"
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Why doesn't Insom/SFS make sense? Because one is voting for the other?
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
I really can't see either of Galz or Frisk being scum if Eevee isn't.
This makes sense, and is why I'm so conflicted because Ins-SfS is a weird pairing too given Insomniac's vote on SfS today.
@Galzria
If we lynch SfS today and he flips town, I'll vote for Insomniac in my first post tomorrow if you want. I've said numerous times he is my top pick for the #2 scum slot, and pretty much HAS to be scum if SfS somehow flips town. The reason I'm having second thoughts is that SfS shouldn't be this easy to lynch. Scum bussing when they lose the game on a scum lynch is just something I wouldn't expect.
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Why doesn't Insom/SFS make sense? Because one is voting for the other?
Correct. because lynching your partner loses the game, scum really won't want to let that happen.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I could believe it - the "bussing" of robz makes sense if the other alternatives to the lynch are Scum1 and Scum2.
I could also believe Insomniac. The only people I can't believe are myself and you Jimbo.
We would have had to think of the robz-bus plan hella fast for us to both be mafia. Remember the first guy to vote for Robz was you, and there wasnt much time. I can't speak for Galzria (who I acknowledge could be scum), but your vote for Robz was a very pleasant surprise for me personally. I literally followed you RIGHT after I saw it. Meaning that there wouldn't have been time to cook up anything in the day chat.
Whoa, say what?
Who is the "we" in the first sentence? You and Frisk? You, as scum, don't need to formulate a plan to bus your teammate. I am asserting that you started the bus as late as you dared, abandoned it when it appeared to be not working, got lucky and jumped on again.
I find it noteworthy that you are now addressing Frisk with this "argument"
Sorry, me and Galzria.
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Why doesn't Insom/SFS make sense? Because one is voting for the other?
Correct. because lynching your partner loses the game, scum really won't want to let that happen.
This.
Here you go Galz (not eevee)
Vote: SFS
Why not me though?
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
I really can't see either of Galz or Frisk being scum if Eevee isn't.
This makes sense, and is why I'm so conflicted because Ins-SfS is a weird pairing too given Insomniac's vote on SfS today.
@Galzria
If we lynch SfS today and he flips town, I'll vote for Insomniac in my first post tomorrow if you want. I've said numerous times he is my top pick for the #2 scum slot, and pretty much HAS to be scum if SfS somehow flips town. The reason I'm having second thoughts is that SfS shouldn't be this easy to lynch. Scum bussing when they lose the game on a scum lynch is just something I wouldn't expect.
So now INsom knows who to vengekill.
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I'm going with SFS because RobZ kept pushing SFS #1, EEvee#2 all day, but when it came time to vote, he went Eevee. If I clear Eevee for this, and Insomniac is semi clear for already voting SFS
If SFS + Galz is scum, then Galz won't hammer.
If SFS is town, then I'm going after eevee.
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If Eevee is scum, who's the third? Galz?
I don't know, the Insom/Frisk thing I called out "yesterday" still bothers me, but I tend to grab onto something and never let go. I read Frisk as more town than not. Galz hammered Robz, so that's either good town play or buying town cred by shooting your partner. I'm still left with Insom.
I really can't see either of Galz or Frisk being scum if Eevee isn't.
This makes sense, and is why I'm so conflicted because Ins-SfS is a weird pairing too given Insomniac's vote on SfS today.
@Galzria
If we lynch SfS today and he flips town, I'll vote for Insomniac in my first post tomorrow if you want. I've said numerous times he is my top pick for the #2 scum slot, and pretty much HAS to be scum if SfS somehow flips town. The reason I'm having second thoughts is that SfS shouldn't be this easy to lynch. Scum bussing when they lose the game on a scum lynch is just something I wouldn't expect.
So now INsom knows who to vengekill.
IF we lynch scum, the game is over.
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Why doesn't Insom/SFS make sense? Because one is voting for the other?
Correct. because lynching your partner loses the game, scum really won't want to let that happen.
This.
Here you go Galz (not eevee)
Vote: SFS
Why not me though?
Because I think you are town.
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That's mighty clever Frisk. Except if Galzria and Insomniac are the scum team(which I think has to be the case if SfS is town!!), Galzria is going to hammer now and just win the game tomorrow!?
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8 minutes and no hammer.
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That's mighty clever Frisk. Except if Galzria and Insomniac are the scum team(which I think has to be the case if SfS is town!!), Galzria is going to hammer now and just win the game tomorrow!?
You're willing to gamble the game on me being town. I'm willing to gamble it on Insomniac being town.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2e/Chirping_Crickets.jpg/220px-Chirping_Crickets.jpg)
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That's mighty clever Frisk. Except if Galzria and Insomniac are the scum team(which I think has to be the case if SfS is town!!), Galzria is going to hammer now and just win the game tomorrow!?
You're willing to gamble the game on me being town. I'm willing to gamble it on Insomniac being town.
I find that awfully surprising.
He didn't vote for Robz. Him being scum would mean Galz would have to be scum, and Galz voted for Robz right before the deadline when I was dying.
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I'm willing to gamble it on me being town, if that helps... ;)
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That's mighty clever Frisk. Except if Galzria and Insomniac are the scum team(which I think has to be the case if SfS is town!!), Galzria is going to hammer now and just win the game tomorrow!?
You're willing to gamble the game on me being town. I'm willing to gamble it on Insomniac being town.
I find that awfully surprising.
He didn't vote for Robz. Him being scum would mean Galz would have to be scum, and Galz voted for Robz right before the deadline when I was dying.
So it makes Galz being scum pretty unlikely right?
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That's mighty clever Frisk. Except if Galzria and Insomniac are the scum team(which I think has to be the case if SfS is town!!), Galzria is going to hammer now and just win the game tomorrow!?
You're willing to gamble the game on me being town. I'm willing to gamble it on Insomniac being town.
I find that awfully surprising.
He didn't vote for Robz. Him being scum would mean Galz would have to be scum, and Galz voted for Robz right before the deadline when I was dying.
So it makes Galz being scum pretty unlikely right?
That's what I was getting at, yes. But you being scum is even more unlikely to me, and Insomniac bussing SfS like that is also an unlikely scenario. So we need to weed out the least unlikely scenario out of these unlikely scenarios, there are still two scum here somewhere after all.
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Geez, sorry. I AM doing other things (like getting ready to go swimming, then running) and I was updating other threads. It's only 7:30 am for some of us, and the day is just beginning.
Anyway, no problem Frisk. Vote: SFS.
Hammer time.
If SFS is town, I will pursue CF/Eevee relentlessly tomorrow.
Going for my swim now, will be back later.
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Trolololol
No bold hammer.... hahahaha
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2e/Chirping_Crickets.jpg/220px-Chirping_Crickets.jpg)
+10,000
I'm going for a swim. I'm town. Eevee is scum. I believe Insom is scum (and I know he's really quiet).
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Trolololol
No bold hammer.... hahahaha
Note the time:
From the current browsers:
Galzria 10:40:02 am Viewing the topic Blitz Mafia IV: A Veteran Battle of Wits (Day 2!) - PM for Spec.
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Eevee - feel free to hammer @ 11am.
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roger.
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I have to say - the "sure I'll vote" and then doing it without bold may qualify for 2012 mafia moments if he's scum.
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I don't know if I can wait 9 minutes!
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Well, if he is getting hammered at 11 either way, what's the point in waiting?
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Insomniac - i see you reading the thread here... what are your thoughts on the situation?
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Was getting caught up, I would say that Galz's behaviour is making me strongly believe once more that he is scum with SFS and not Eevee. I'm glad we are pursuing SFS today because I'm confident it will give us a flawless town win
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If Galz is scum with SFS, why would Galz lynch Robz instead of Eevee?
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If Galz is scum with SFS, why would Galz lynch Robz instead of Eevee?
Attempt to get towncred?
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Maybe RobZ didn't want to play any more and wanted to get some mileage out of a bus?
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tic toc eevee?
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Maybe RobZ didn't want to play any more and wanted to get some mileage out of a bus?
Or more likely - eevee is scum.
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If Galz is scum with SFS, why would Galz lynch Robz instead of Eevee?
Attempt to get towncred?
And point the finger at SFS?
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Sorry. Vote: SfS
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Oh snap!
We need a flip in here stat!
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Galz - i see you're back, willing to admit it?
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THREAD LOCKED
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I think Volt is about to post the final flavour, and flip, but if he hasn't by the time I've showered I will.
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They looked at each other, barely hiding their surprise...and glee.
There was no stalemate this time. Jimmmmm, Insomniac, Captain_Frisk, and Eevee all agreed: SwitchedFromStarcraft was mafia. They looked over and saw the noose at head level again—where did Robz888’s body go?—and led him over. They didn’t even have to force him, he was resigned to his fate. The rope started to rise, slowly.
Impressive work, humans. SwitchedFromStarcraft was a mafia goon. We could not have wished for better results. And now, we will...
Galzria snuck backward from the throng of townfolk looking up at the ceiling. He pulled off his white tee-shirt, and started waving it around madly, begging not to be killed in so slowly and gruesome a fashion.
Well, well. And so Galzria, the final mafia goon, has waved the White Flag. Town wins a flawless victory. Congratulations, you have also won a reprieve for your lives.
A flash of light. A searing pain. And the living town members, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Jimmmmm, and Insomniac, found themselves in a field of poppies. They look at each other and smile. They were alive, and home.
The Game Is Over. Town Wins!
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:)
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Thank you for believing in me Frisk!
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Yikes! The Robz/Galz scum reunion did not not as well as we expected (and it's not SFS's fault).
Nice job by Eevee and shraeye (and stupid Frisk checking the stupid who's online thing.)
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Nice try galz
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Modnotes QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/asmPMptLXQ5M
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/gaAEAKHSAcxR
Spec QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/LCLRQe9YWduzL
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I did indeed avoid posting toward the end because it was better for me to be lynched than for Galz to be lynched. Me dying would have sort of cleared Galz. Galz dying would NOT clear me.
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This setup worked extremely well in a blitz game. Super fun game, thanks for ashersky and all the co-mods! Fun to be right for once too, yay yay.
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Whoa!!!!!! Well color me surprised. I was convinced that SFS was town inthe speccy thread.
I couldn't figure out who was the third scum (along with Galz and Robz), but was very very highly suspicious of Eevee.
@Frisk, how do you check the who's online part?
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I FEEL like without a meta on the people your playing with this game might have a scum edge, but if you have a decent meta on the people you are playing with it favours town.
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BTW Eevee you can trust my opinion on your follow the IC's now, I still think its bad. The two people who you respect the most were scum though and the guy you always think is scum was town yet again ;)
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I am now 0 for 4 in Blitz games. I've lost every single one.
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Also, this format is badass. Sorry for taking this game on a detour through crazy-town when I was in control as IC. But somehow it worked out well, and I'm glad that I zeroed in on scum at the end of day 1. Even if he wasn't the one we lynched....
Would play this again, for sure.
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I am now 0 for 4 in Blitz games. I've lost every single one.
Impressive, dude!
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@Robz :)
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I am now 0 for 4 in Blitz games. I've lost every single one.
I'm 2 for 2 :) The two games I played are the ones town won, and I was town in both.
That said ZM2 was pretty sketch so im 1.5/1.5
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Like Frisk I am also guilty of checking online status, I tend not to meta with it I just like to know when people are posting to threads so I can look forward to reading a new post.
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I'm not sure if I feel comfortable using online status as an argument in games...
But I like Insomniac's use of it.
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I HATE the checking online statuses but it's totally legitimate. I hope you all know that i KNOW not appearing at deadline is scummy, I was doing it deliberately. Galz also told me specifically not to post, and I concurred with him.
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Read our QT, we were pretty confident up until the point where Galz became like an obvscum for some reason.
It's close, but I think I Vote: Eevee for MVP here, even though his IC plan was stupid. He absolutely tunneled the correct scum. So annoying.
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My day 1 reads:
town: shraeye, jim (2 guaranteed to be right!) eevee, frisk, insomniac
scum: SFS; Galzria, Robz
Vote: SFS
Yuma called the scum trio day 1 in the speccy. :)
Galz, Robz and SfS, if my idea was actually that bad for town, why didn't you just agree with me? It probably could have happened then, no?
@Ins
Sorry I can't help it! Notice how I didn't vote for you all game here though.
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Eevee, I couldn't even pretend to think that your plan was good.
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I HATE the checking online statuses but it's totally legitimate. I hope you all know that i KNOW not appearing at deadline is scummy, I was doing it deliberately. Galz also told me specifically not to post, and I concurred with him.
Why not just pop in for a scum hammer on eevee instead? You'd get killed the next day, but Galz would probably get more town cred.
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Reading Quicktopics now, @Modtopic #21 Thanks ashersky!
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Eevee, I couldn't even pretend to think that your plan was good.
:D
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Reading Quicktopics now, @Modtopic #21 Thanks ashersky!
Btw Shraeye I retract my you're a terrible ic comment. It wasn't a good thing for me to say I was just frustrated a conf town was tunneling on me another conf town (to me)
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Frisk being worried about the scumslip is a scumslip, and actually does have a history of scumslips as scum. His lynch should actually be a no brainer now, but we need a non-us person to see that.
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Nah frisk gave me town vibes all game not sure what did I just every frisk post I was like this guy is town
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I HATE the checking online statuses but it's totally legitimate. I hope you all know that i KNOW not appearing at deadline is scummy, I was doing it deliberately. Galz also told me specifically not to post, and I concurred with him.
Why not just pop in for a scum hammer on eevee instead? You'd get killed the next day, but Galz would probably get more town cred.
I was already voting for Eevee, wasn't I? I was. The ball was in Galz's court. I think there's a good argument to be made that he should have lynched Eevee there, rather than let me lurk myself to death, but in the heat of the moment it was very hard to decide, and I didn't disagree with his call.
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Frisk isn't getting enough credit for throwing the first stone at Robz day 1. Had I gotten lynched instead of him, town would have been in much worse shape.
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Nah frisk gave me town vibes all game not sure what did I just every frisk post I was like this guy is town
Except for the parts when I went crazy and started questioning everything, I also thought Frisk was the towniest.
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I'd MVP Frisk just for being really super rational and towny, and also for being critical in getting Robz lynched (even though he was wrong about Eevee, and wouldn't vote Galz :()
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Eh, can't win them all. Did what I could.
If Robz came back before the D1 deadline, the only person he could legitimately vote for was me. A switch to hammer scum!Eevee would've been OMGUS at best, and completely obvscum at worst, followed by a D2 Robz lynch, and then probably me (or vice versa). Recognize that if Eevee gets lynched and flips town, Shraeye is still alive and so am I. He would have everybody whipped up into lynching me so fast...
This left Robz the only option if he came back to bus me - which also would've made no sense since he had "read" me as town all day. To come in at deadline and vote/hammer me would've looked like a complete bus, especially given my "Robz is scum" all D1. Can I get "Town Cred" for $600 Alex?
The only logical play was for Robz to stay away (it seemed). As for my play... I literally had seconds to decide if I wanted to land the Robz bus or "miss" the deadline. But I had been pushing Robz all damn day, and if I left Eevee to the lynch, Shraeye would still be alive and I would have to answer "If I was pushing Robz all day yesterday, why didn't I lynch him when I had the opportunity?" This, combined with Shraeye's reads would lead to my lynch, and in turn Robz as my obvious scumbuddy.
It made much more sense for me to take the Robz bus route, gaining me legitimate town cred. It wasn't an awkward bus because it was from my "Towniest" read to my "scummiest". To that end I was successful - I was not going to be the D2 lynch. But I couldn't control where it did go well enough. Still, at the deadline of D1, and the hour leading up to it, I honestly felt this was our teams best path to victory.
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I'd MVP Frisk just for being really super rational and towny, and also for being critical in getting Robz lynched (even though he was wrong about Eevee, and wouldn't vote Galz :()
Yeah, but Frisk had a real town read on me until I intentionally disappeared, whereas Eevee was the most stridently critical of me all of Day 1, and also correctly tunneled SFS Day 2... and also basically knew the entire scum team at one point, scarily early.
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I'm disappointed that it wasn't an eevee / Galz scumpair.
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Eh, can't win them all. Did what I could.
If Robz came back before the D1 deadline, the only person he could legitimately vote for was me. A switch to hammer scum!Eevee would've been OMGUS at best, and completely obvscum at worst, followed by a D2 Robz lynch, and then probably me (or vice versa). Recognize that if Eevee gets lynched and flips town, Shraeye is still alive and so am I. He would have everybody whipped up into lynching me so fast...
This left Robz the only option if he came back to bus me - which also would've made no sense since he had "read" me as town all day. To come in at deadline and vote/hammer me would've looked like a complete bus, especially given my "Robz is scum" all D1. Can I get "Town Cred" for $600 Alex?
The only logical play was for Robz to stay away (it seemed). As for my play... I literally had seconds to decide if I wanted to land the Robz bus or "miss" the deadline. But I had been pushing Robz all damn day, and if I left Eevee to the lynch, Shraeye would still be alive and I would have to answer "If I was pushing Robz all day yesterday, why didn't I lynch him when I had the opportunity?" This, combined with Shraeye's reads would lead to my lynch, and in turn Robz as my obvious scumbuddy.
It made much more sense for me to take the Robz bus route, gaining me legitimate town cred. It wasn't an awkward bus because it was from my "Towniest" read to my "scummiest". To that end I was successful - I was not going to be the D2 lynch. But I couldn't control where it did go well enough. Still, at the deadline of D1, and the hour leading up to it, I honestly felt this was our teams best path to victory.
Scratch the "moving to Eevee" bit for Robz - he was already there so couldn't make an impact on that front. That left his only choice being to bus me, which as I pointed out would've made little sense given the days activity.
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I could totally see the narrative of cooking up some bad theory in daychat - and then fighting it out live.
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Eh, can't win them all. Did what I could.
If Robz came back before the D1 deadline, the only person he could legitimately vote for was me. A switch to hammer scum!Eevee would've been OMGUS at best, and completely obvscum at worst, followed by a D2 Robz lynch, and then probably me (or vice versa). Recognize that if Eevee gets lynched and flips town, Shraeye is still alive and so am I. He would have everybody whipped up into lynching me so fast...
This left Robz the only option if he came back to bus me - which also would've made no sense since he had "read" me as town all day. To come in at deadline and vote/hammer me would've looked like a complete bus, especially given my "Robz is scum" all D1. Can I get "Town Cred" for $600 Alex?
The only logical play was for Robz to stay away (it seemed). As for my play... I literally had seconds to decide if I wanted to land the Robz bus or "miss" the deadline. But I had been pushing Robz all damn day, and if I left Eevee to the lynch, Shraeye would still be alive and I would have to answer "If I was pushing Robz all day yesterday, why didn't I lynch him when I had the opportunity?" This, combined with Shraeye's reads would lead to my lynch, and in turn Robz as my obvious scumbuddy.
It made much more sense for me to take the Robz bus route, gaining me legitimate town cred. It wasn't an awkward bus because it was from my "Towniest" read to my "scummiest". To that end I was successful - I was not going to be the D2 lynch. But I couldn't control where it did go well enough. Still, at the deadline of D1, and the hour leading up to it, I honestly felt this was our teams best path to victory.
Bus was a good idea, as other people were less sure of a scumread on you. Bussing to vengekill me was the right play, as I was NOT going to let go of a Galz lynch.
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
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Has anyone learned anything regarding providing multiple scumreads as scum?
What led me to SFS was RobZ's "my top scumreads are SFS (#1) + Eevee (#2)"... but then when it came time to vote - he went for Eevee. Insomniac already being on the SFS wagon semi-cleared him, leaving poor Galz forced to hammer his buddy with unbolded voting.
I'd MVP Insomniac for the "SFS takes too long to post as scum" case - which cleared him day 1 in my mind, basically guaranteeing the win.
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
Don't think I didn't notice. I'm getting increasingly concerned that the meta is now "good play is scummy" / "obv. bad blay is townie" - so the next time I'm scum I'm going to have to invent crazy bad play.
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
Don't think I didn't notice. I'm getting increasingly concerned that the meta is now "good play is scummy" / "obv. bad blay is townie" - so the next time I'm scum I'm going to have to invent crazy bad play.
(e.g. - PPS claim VT prior to day 1 start)
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Has anyone learned anything regarding providing multiple scumreads as scum?
What led me to SFS was RobZ's "my top scumreads are SFS (#1) + Eevee (#2)"... but then when it came time to vote - he went for Eevee. Insomniac already being on the SFS wagon semi-cleared him, leaving poor Galz forced to hammer his buddy with unbolded voting.
I'd MVP Insomniac for the "SFS takes too long to post as scum" case - which cleared him day 1 in my mind, basically guaranteeing the win.
Eh, i don't know. If you read the qt, I was fairly committed to busing SFS. And you of all people should know Frisk, that I love a good Day 1 bus.
The problem was that the SFS lynch went nowhere, so I shifted to Eevee. Damn that pokemon.
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An aside SFS, I'm sorry you have bad things going down IRL, and I hope things get better.
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Has anyone learned anything regarding providing multiple scumreads as scum?
What led me to SFS was RobZ's "my top scumreads are SFS (#1) + Eevee (#2)"... but then when it came time to vote - he went for Eevee. Insomniac already being on the SFS wagon semi-cleared him, leaving poor Galz forced to hammer his buddy with unbolded voting.
I'd MVP Insomniac for the "SFS takes too long to post as scum" case - which cleared him day 1 in my mind, basically guaranteeing the win.
Eh, i don't know. If you read the qt, I was fairly committed to busing SFS. And you of all people should know Frisk, that I love a good Day 1 bus.
The problem was that the SFS lynch went nowhere, so I shifted to Eevee. Damn that pokemon.
What made me not want to lynch SFS was that 4 people posted suspicion of him. So either there were 2+ mafia pushing for him, or he was scum and there was 1 busser. I couldn't properly identify the busser, so I didn't want his flip either way as I thought day 2 would be too hard. Leave that wagon as one worth analyzing, and then move onto somebody else.
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My ideal Day 1 scenario was a shraeye-led lynch of Insomniac, with Galz voting for me and me voting for SFS. I thought the result would be shraeye losing confidence in his reads (which were all pretty good, except his read on Insomniac), and setting up for a Day 2 SFS lynch, followed by Eevee or Frisk and a scum win.
But it spiraled away from that, and toward Galz. Galz flipping scum was the worst case scenario, since I said he was my top town read. Thus, the lurking.
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My ideal Day 1 scenario was a shraeye-led lynch of Insomniac, with Galz voting for me and me voting for SFS. I thought the result would be shraeye losing confidence in his reads (which were all pretty good, except his read on Insomniac), and setting up for a Day 2 SFS lynch, followed by Eevee or Frisk and a scum win.
But it spiraled away from that, and toward Galz. Galz flipping scum was the worst case scenario, since I said he was my top town read. Thus, the lurking.
See i wouldn't consider your top town read as especially meaningful. I fully assumed that when you had 2 top "scum reads" - that 1 of them was scum, and thus, the other scum would have been the others.
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I think the bottom line really is that this town played very very well as a team.
Must've been a weird game for Jimmm, because everything revolved around meta arguments he couldn't possibly understand.
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I was a good IC?? Yay!
No, but seriously, IC is a crazy tense position in this game. I put so much weight on my shoulders to lead town to the right decision, and also I'm the one with the most incomplete info. I would rather play something else next time.
Who am I kidding? I love it all!
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I was a good IC?? Yay!
No, but seriously, IC is a crazy tense position in this game. I put so much weight on my shoulders to lead town to the right decision, and also I'm the one with the most incomplete info. I would rather play something else next time.
Who am I kidding? I love it all!
I would not have wanted to be IC or scum in this game.
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Reading Quicktopics now, @Modtopic #21 Thanks ashersky!
Wait till you see the mafia qt
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Nah frisk gave me town vibes all game not sure what did I just every frisk post I was like this guy is town
Frisk is always town
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Nah frisk gave me town vibes all game not sure what did I just every frisk post I was like this guy is town
Frisk is always town
I had a stretch in the middle of my "career" where I was always scum. I had to place out of some of the games because it was too much stress.
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I HATE the checking online statuses but it's totally legitimate. I hope you all know that i KNOW not appearing at deadline is scummy, I was doing it deliberately. Galz also told me specifically not to post, and I concurred with him.
Why not just pop in for a scum hammer on eevee instead? You'd get killed the next day, but Galz would probably get more town cred.
I was already voting for Eevee, wasn't I? I was. The ball was in Galz's court. I think there's a good argument to be made that he should have lynched Eevee there, rather than let me lurk myself to death, but in the heat of the moment it was very hard to decide, and I didn't disagree with his call.
I would have moved to Eevee, but the vote count thing threw me.
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I was a good IC?? Yay!
No, but seriously, IC is a crazy tense position in this game. I put so much weight on my shoulders to lead town to the right decision, and also I'm the one with the most incomplete info. I would rather play something else next time.
Who am I kidding? I love it all!
I would not have wanted to be IC or scum in this game.
Yeah, I love being scum, but this was definitely the tensest scum game I have ever played.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
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I'd MVP Frisk just for being really super rational and towny, and also for being critical in getting Robz lynched (even though he was wrong about Eevee, and wouldn't vote Galz :()
Yeah, but Frisk had a real town read on me until I intentionally disappeared, whereas Eevee was the most stridently critical of me all of Day 1, and also correctly tunneled SFS Day 2... and also basically knew the entire scum team at one point, scarily early.
Yes, but in rereading Eevee in toto, I found he was as all over the map as Shraeye was.
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I'm 1-2 in my blitz career, but more sadly than that, this was my first ever Mafia loss in a leaderboard counted game. :(
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@Robz well Ash said in the mod qt he is gonna run this again immediatly.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
Hmm.. I don't think you played all that well in this game. :/
Obviously it's still very unlucky to go 0/4 (with one of the three being a setup where your team has very little chance).
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I could totally see the narrative of cooking up some bad theory in daychat - and then fighting it out live.
I was really stunned when my theorized daychat between you and Insom didn't gain any traction. All the pieces were perfect (I thought). But, I'm always wrong.
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I'm 1-2 in my blitz career, but more sadly than that, this was my first ever Mafia loss in a leaderboard counted game. :(
I'm still perfect in completely "normal" numbered games though... But that's probably more a product of my only being Mafia once. :-/
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
Hmm.. I don't think you played all that well in this game. :/
Obviously it's still very unlucky to go 0/4 (with one of the three being a setup where your team has very little chance).
No, and neither did you, and neither did Galz, frankly. Which is sad for us, since Galz and I generally consider ourselves "experts" at being mafia. (At least he's a redeemable town player; I'm awful at being town.)
We were just outplayed here. The town did really, really well. Particularly Eevee, shraeye, and Frisk.
And that's not a shot at Jimmmmmm--this was a near-impossible game for a newbie to play well.
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
So are you truly convinced your idea was bad? Or did you just abandon it? I'm still not convinced its a bad idea. Setting aside the "I just sheeped the IC" arguments for mislynches, is there literally NO merit to Eevee's idea?
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
Don't think I didn't notice. I'm getting increasingly concerned that the meta is now "good play is scummy" / "obv. bad blay is townie" - so the next time I'm scum I'm going to have to invent crazy bad play.
Best decide now if that's a good play if Jo is in the game.
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
So are you truly convinced your idea was bad? Or did you just abandon it? I'm still not convinced its a bad idea. Setting aside the "I just sheeped the IC" arguments for mislynches, is there literally NO merit to Eevee's idea?
Oh no, I still don't see the how it's that terrible. :/ Like, I can kinda see Galzria's latest and mildest opposition "the downside is just too big", but certainly don't see the "no the idea is just flat out terrible" - stance. I just gave up because everyone opposed it.
Robz, what would you think about the plan if it was a one day game, first lynch wins?
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I could totally see the narrative of cooking up some bad theory in daychat - and then fighting it out live.
I was really stunned when my theorized daychat between you and Insom didn't gain any traction. All the pieces were perfect (I thought). But, I'm always wrong.
The problem is that there are 5 townies, and 2 of them know that your theory is total hogwash. Jimmmmm was offline all day, so you really only had Eevee + Shraeye to jump on.
Eevee was quantum tunnelling on his bad ideas!
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Proposing a unique but bad idea early day 1 and really insisting on it for a long seems to be an ok way of getting town credit by the way. Just a tip for future mafia families.
So are you truly convinced your idea was bad? Or did you just abandon it? I'm still not convinced its a bad idea. Setting aside the "I just sheeped the IC" arguments for mislynches, is there literally NO merit to Eevee's idea?
Oh no, I still don't see the how it's that terrible. :/ Like, I can kinda see Galzria's latest and mildest opposition "the downside is just too big", but certainly don't see the "no the idea is just flat out terrible" - stance. I just gave up because everyone opposed it.
Robz, what would you think about the plan if it was a one day game, first lynch wins?
This game provides a good example, actually, of why Eevee is wrong. The collective town did a better job of finding mafia than any one member of the town, I think.
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I think the bottom line really is that this town played very very well as a team.
Must've been a weird game for Jimmm, because everything revolved around meta arguments he couldn't possibly understand.
And the scumbuddy bus that he couldn't figure. This game felt a lot like playing poker in a game with 7 tricky players and one that doesn't look toward the next several levels. (No offense Jimm, we all start somewhere, and I think the time difference worked against you as well). I felt that way to some extent when rebutting Arch's argument in ZM3. It's hard to know what level to operate on.
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I was a good IC?? Yay!
No, but seriously, IC is a crazy tense position in this game. I put so much weight on my shoulders to lead town to the right decision, and also I'm the one with the most incomplete info. I would rather play something else next time.
Who am I kidding? I love it all!
I would not have wanted to be IC or scum in this game.
This I agree with completely.
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Well in this game mafia helped town by lynching each other, which is something I didn't expect to happen or don't think was smart play by you. "You dug your own grave" is too harsh, but clearly you overestimated how useful Galzria's towny status would be day 2 when just lynching SfS was enough for a town win.
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I hope this game didn't make Jimmm not like forum mafia. It's usually easier to contribute!
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Nah frisk gave me town vibes all game not sure what did I just every frisk post I was like this guy is town
Frisk is always town
I had a stretch in the middle of my "career" where I was always scum. I had to place out of some of the games because it was too much stress.
Yeah, it is very stressful, which I guess I knew through ZM2. So two mafia roles in a row, I need a serious break.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
My comment about being surprised you played was serious, but only because there was no power role to be had.
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@Eevee essentially the problem is two fold (and up front I still don't like it if its one day first lynch wins)
First, IC's have a 50% (must find one of 3 scum in 6 players) chance of being accurate whilst townies have a 3/5 or 60% chance (must find one scum in 5 players). So off the bat VT's have the best chance at picking accurately. but no one else knows that they are VTs.
Second, even though you wanted to have normal conversation you still lose information, because it allows scum to hide very easily. Think about this from a scum perspective, everyone is presenting a case on townie Insom. It comes to you and you make a really compelling case for scum buddy Robz, but not compelling enough that people will jump ship. The Ic's go well Robz out debated insom, insom is scum. Now you get to lynch a townie without ever expressing a desire to lynch him and you can go hey I'm not accountable for his lynch I just sheeped Shraeye.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
My comment about being surprised you played was serious, but only because there was no power role to be had.
Mafia is considered a power role. IC too in this setup I think.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
My comment about being surprised you played was serious, but only because there was no power role to be had.
Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
My comment about being surprised you played was serious, but only because there was no power role to be had.
Mafia is considered a power role. IC too in this setup I think.
Eevee is correct, robz had a > 50% chance of being a PR here.
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bad math is scummy!
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bad math is scummy!
Is that at me?
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@Eevee essentially the problem is two fold (and up front I still don't like it if its one day first lynch wins)
First, IC's have a 50% (must find one of 3 scum in 6 players) chance of being accurate whilst townies have a 3/5 or 60% chance (must find one scum in 5 players). So off the bat VT's have the best chance at picking accurately. but no one else knows that they are VTs.
Second, even though you wanted to have normal conversation you still lose information, because it allows scum to hide very easily. Think about this from a scum perspective, everyone is presenting a case on townie Insom. It comes to you and you make a really compelling case for scum buddy Robz, but not compelling enough that people will jump ship. The Ic's go well Robz out debated insom, insom is scum. Now you get to lynch a townie without ever expressing a desire to lynch him and you can go hey I'm not accountable for his lynch I just sheeped Shraeye.
Straight up saying "VT's know better" is just such a mischaracterization though, because no one knows which VT's to trust and scum knows everything perfectly accurate. In my one day game, with 8 alive it would take a single townie to land on the 40% and vote for town for scum to be able to quickhammer (and it would take 4/6 townies to agree on a target to make a scum lynch happen).
I don't think my proposition was perfect, and clearly this game worked out beautifully with no cute tricks. Idk, this conversation probably isn't very fruitful because it's impossible or at least too hard to quantify the advantages and disadvantages.
Again, so many smart people telling me it's so, I can agree my idea probably wasn't good then, even if I can't really work the logic myself.
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Let me just say this then Eevee. It takes one vt landing in the 40%. It by contrast requires one of two ic's to be wrong and they hav a better chance of being wrong. (In your one day game scum ignore your proposal and qh town if given the chance)
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Let me just say this then Eevee. It takes one vt landing in the 40%. It by contrast requires one of two ic's to be wrong and they hav a better chance of being wrong. (In your one day game scum ignore your proposal and qh town if given the chance)
Lol I forgot in one day games, scum could just not follow the plan when they could win. You are obviously correct...
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I hope this game didn't make Jimmm not like forum mafia. It's usually easier to contribute!
Yes. In fact:
Jimm, I strongly encourage you to play Mafia again. You may find that different types of games appeal to you in different ways. Which is sort of a corollary to:
Regardless of whether you liked this specific game or not, it would not be a good game upon which to base future decisions about playing. This game was unusual in a couple of ways (veterans, white flag, no power roles, etc.).
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It's true, Eevee the advantages and disadvantages are very very hard to quantify.
If we're picking randomly, we're better off sheeping a VTs read. But of course, we don't know who the VTs are, so we could sheep the ICs random picks for 50% chance. But it's very hard to determine if the atmosphere of a game where you know you'll eventually be sheeping the ICs reads (which don't have a 50% chance of hitting scum, since reads are totally subjective) will cause everyone to act much more differently. Very tough to determine.
I think playing this normally is best, and currently have one game to back that up :). But maybe I'm wrong.
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Isn't Jimmmm in like, 2 other active games and signed up for like, 4 more? ;D
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Shraeye, I thought you did an awesome job from the get go. Your leadership was EXTREMELY impressive, and you did an awesome job of considering pretty much everything. If you are ever unhappy in your current RL career, I'd like us to talk.
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I'm thinking things over. Mad props to all. I think Jimmm did just fine, I think Frisk was a rockstar. Also Insomniac handled my tunnelling perfectly (i really thought he was scum for a bit), and convinced me he was town. Eevee obviously handled all day1 suspicion well, and got the lynch pointed at Robz. On the scum side, SFS actually made me super convinced he was town. Galzria had most of the rest of the town fooled into thinking he was town on day 2, Robz being scummy didn't occur to me until like the very last minute in day 1.
This was super tense, super close, super fun.
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Also, the scumteams plan to get me losing all confidence in my reading ability almost worked. Things were tense for me.
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in mafia QT
@32 Galz reads my scumslip ploy perfectly.
also @82 he reads my intentions perfectly.
@76 and 77--my classes are pretty fun, I'm rather animated, as you might expect. Also, I play tennis and just love #77.
@88 thanks mate!
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My day 1 reads:
town: shraeye, jim (2 guaranteed to be right!) eevee, frisk, insomniac
scum: SFS; Galzria, Robz
Vote: SFS
Yuma called the scum trio day 1 in the speccy. :)
I am so smart! This was a fun game to watch. Wish I could play in blitz games more but my schedule just won't allow for it.
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Seriously, zero Blitz victories for me! Zero!
My comment about being surprised you played was serious, but only because there was no power role to be had.
Mafia is considered a power role. IC too in this setup I think.
I always count mafia as a PR. You get to talk at special times, even if you're a no-kill Goon.
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Thank you for believing in me Frisk!
This was a serious challenge, but your case on SFS was rockstar material.
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On the topic of looking at the Who's Online page... I frequent it quite often and will take it into consideration for scumreads, but never publicly disclose it. Being online alone isn't enough to justify a lynch.
I also use it much more often as scum, in particular twice now in games trying to quickhammer... the failed attempt with Galz in ZM1 and in success with Cuzz in MXIV.
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On the topic of looking at the Who's Online page... I frequent it quite often and will take it into consideration for scumreads, but never publicly disclose it. Being online alone isn't enough to justify a lynch.
I also use it much more often as scum, in particular twice now in games trying to quickhammer... the failed attempt with Galz in ZM1 and in success with Cuzz in MXIV.
It comes into play more for blitz, I don't think i've used it in a long time before this game. It has obvious weaknesses... like when I'm refreshing from my phone while at the deli counter at the grocery store.
But in blitz, 30 minutes before the lynch, I kindof assume that anyone who hasn't claimed something in advance is probably watching with actual interest.
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Thanks guys, I had fun, although I'll admit a certain meme with a dog at a computer comes to mind. At a couple of points I just had to pick something which I could back up in some way and go with that.
Jimm, I strongly encourage you to play Mafia again. You may find that different types of games appeal to you in different ways.
Don't worry about that, in fact I'm thinking of hosting a game or two.
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Also, well done to the Town, and Eevee sorry for doubting you.
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Also, well done to the Town, and Eevee sorry for doubting you.
No worries, people tend to.
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It's because you're so mischievous.
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We just never know what you're going to turn into.
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Congrats town! Thanks everyone for playing. This was a great game to mod and watch.
For the record, I think Galz should have "missed" the deadline and let Eevee go down. That would have given mafia two days to try to get one lynch to win.
And don't worry, there is more to come.
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Oh, and this: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5487.new#new (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5487.new#new)
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Congrats town! Thanks everyone for playing. This was a great game to mod and watch.
For the record, I think Galz should have "missed" the deadline and let Eevee go down. That would have given mafia two days to try to get one lynch to win.
And don't worry, there is more to come.
do you, as mod, have an official MVP to pronounce?
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Congrats town! Thanks everyone for playing. This was a great game to mod and watch.
For the record, I think Galz should have "missed" the deadline and let Eevee go down. That would have given mafia two days to try to get one lynch to win.
And don't worry, there is more to come.
do you, as mod, have an official MVP to pronounce?
Captain_Frisk
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Congrats town! Thanks everyone for playing. This was a great game to mod and watch.
For the record, I think Galz should have "missed" the deadline and let Eevee go down. That would have given mafia two days to try to get one lynch to win.
And don't worry, there is more to come.
do you, as mod, have an official MVP to pronounce?
Captain_Frisk
Fully support this.
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I can sign off on Frisk as well.
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I say Eevee! But whole town played a good game.
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Thank you for believing in me Frisk!
This was a serious challenge, but your case on SFS was rockstar material.
I agree Insom, I knew I was doomed as soon as you spelled it out, though I ventured another scumtell in the Mafia QT.
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Thank you for believing in me Frisk!
This was a serious challenge, but your case on SFS was rockstar material.
I agree Insom, I new I was doomed as soon as you spelled it out, though I ventured another scumtell in the Mafia QT.
Of course now my rockstar case is useless in future games because you'll change your scum play.