Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => General Discussion => Topic started by: shraeye on October 05, 2012, 11:20:08 am
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I'm super jazzed up to see the Giants win it all again! No but seriously, we will win. I'm excited to watch some postseason games, and post things up in here while things are going on.
First question, what do you think about the 1-game wildcard playoff system? I'm a fan, it's gonna be super exciting. A friend of mine still swears this is the worst thing that has happened to baseball. Thoughts?
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First question, what do you think about the 1-game wildcard playoff system? I'm a fan, it's gonna be super exciting. A friend of mine still swears this is the worst thing that has happened to baseball. Thoughts?
I think it's just great they've finally caught up to where the NFL was in 1978.
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I have been an Orioles fan since birth so I'm super-excited to see them back in after 15 years of losing seasons. But I'm pretty nervous about them having to play a 1-game playoff to get in the real playoffs essentially. I do like the added emphasis of winning your division, but it's very odd to have anything in baseball decided by 1 game, where you are used to having 5 and 7 game series. Should be exciting either way though!
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I'm not a super big fan of arbitrary divisions, and being rewarded for winning them.
The Seahawks making the playoffs in 2010 was a crime.
If the one of the 2 teams playing for the wildcard has a better record than one of the division records, then I feel bad that they have to play a playoff game just because they happen to be in a worse geography.
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I don't know if the divisions in baseball are really arbitrary if they are defined by geography. But I certainly understand your point that it sucks if a wildcard team has a better record than a division winner.
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Abritrary in that the lines separate teams not based on baseball skill. The conferences sortof make sense, as they play a slightly different baseball variant.
They might as well have organized the divisions by alphabetical order.
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Fair enough - that is true. The problem if you didn't do it by region I guess is as bad as the travel may be already, it would kinda suck to have the Yankees play their division rivals the Athletics 20+ times a year, or something like that. I can't think of any other plausible way to organize divisions, even if they aren't ideal.
But more importantly, if the Orioles can't win I'm rooting for the Athletics. I can barely name three players on that roster, and that's pretty cool.
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Incidentally you can learn a lot about a baseball fan by asking whether he supports Cabrera or Trout for MVP.
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I've already answered this one. Trout is a cooler name!
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It's amazing that someone could win the Triple Crown and there could still be a legitimate argument for another player. But as good as Trout was, I have to go with Cabrera (playoff team should count for something, right?). Not confident in that vote in the least though. Cabrera certainly finished the season strong too, while I think Trout hit 5 HRs and 6 RBIs in September. Certainly not the way you want to end your season as you are pushing for the playoffs.
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I'm for the Orioles and the Braves tonight. The Orioles because they surprised every preseason prediction by making the playoffs, and the Braves because I live in Atlanta and selfishly hope the giants will eventually play the braves so I can see some games!
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I'm super jazzed up to see the Giants win it all again! No but seriously, we will win. I'm excited to watch some postseason games, and post things up in here while things are going on.
First question, what do you think about the 1-game wildcard playoff system? I'm a fan, it's gonna be super exciting. A friend of mine still swears this is the worst thing that has happened to baseball. Thoughts?
Thank you for reminding me to change my forum picture back to what I'm actually known to be (changed originally for support for Iso, then as my Cosmic power). It may pre-date you joining the forum mafia community, but I'm sure you won't mind.
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Go Nats! DC finally has a team to be proud of!
Watching Bryce Harper celebrate with water instead of champagne was hilarious, if I may say so myself.
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It's amazing that someone could win the Triple Crown and there could still be a legitimate argument for another player. But as good as Trout was, I have to go with Cabrera (playoff team should count for something, right?). Not confident in that vote in the least though. Cabrera certainly finished the season strong too, while I think Trout hit 5 HRs and 6 RBIs in September. Certainly not the way you want to end your season as you are pushing for the playoffs.
Trout's team had a better record than Cabrera's. Hardly seems like his fault he plays in a stronger division and also doesn't have Verlander on his team.
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baseball? seriously? id rather play with philosopher's stone IRL than watch baseball. the nfl is where it's at! :)
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baseball? seriously? id rather play with philosopher's stone IRL than watch baseball. the nfl is where it's at! :)
Amen brother. +1 to you good sir. Unless you're a Giants or Cowboys fan. Redskins fans have suffered enough that they are fine for now.
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It's amazing that someone could win the Triple Crown and there could still be a legitimate argument for another player.
The big reason being that 2 of the 3 triple crown categories are pretty bad measures of hitting ability.
But as good as Trout was, I have to go with Cabrera (playoff team should count for something, right?). Not confident in that vote in the least though. Cabrera certainly finished the season strong too, while I think Trout hit 5 HRs and 6 RBIs in September. Certainly not the way you want to end your season as you are pushing for the playoffs.
Should playoff team count for something? As Frisk mentioned, it's a matter of geography. The angels have a much better record than the tigers. It's a good thing Miggy gets credit for Detroit being located in the center of the country. I'm not saying Cabrera is a bad choice for MVP. He had an amazing year. Good enough to be the best player in many other years. It's just this year, well Trout was even more amazing.
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Dear people disparaging baseball here,
Go make your own thread. Some of us have good taste in sports.
PS: Should this not be in RSP subforum?
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baseball? seriously? id rather play with philosopher's stone IRL than watch baseball. the nfl is where it's at! :)
I watch all 162 games each season with rapt attention. I cannot watch a single football game start to finish without channel surfing at some point. It's not that I dislike the sport, I just find it (generally) mind-numbingly boring. I fully support my home team (49'rs), and I love Da Bears. I was raised in Michigan, so the Lions will always hold a soft spot in my heart, and well, what can I say? I'm a bit of a Cheesehead too. I keep track of those 4 teams each week, and I know their players, their strengths, and their weaknesses... But outside of that, I just cannot bring myself to watch the sport itself. It's like pulling teeth.
It's nowhere NEAR as bad as Badketball, which I categorically refuse to even watch 20 seconds of (talking NBA, not College). Basketball at the professional level isn't even a sport in my opinion. ;D
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It's amazing that someone could win the Triple Crown and there could still be a legitimate argument for another player. But as good as Trout was, I have to go with Cabrera (playoff team should count for something, right?). Not confident in that vote in the least though. Cabrera certainly finished the season strong too, while I think Trout hit 5 HRs and 6 RBIs in September. Certainly not the way you want to end your season as you are pushing for the playoffs.
Trout's team had a better record than Cabrera's. Hardly seems like his fault he plays in a stronger division and also doesn't have Verlander on his team.
I've never liked that argument about teammates personally. By arguing that I feel like people are actually penalizing the good player for having good teammates. But since it's been brought up, Trout had Weaver (20-5, 2.81 ERA), and those numbers are arguably better than Verlander's this year. Although I guess I wouldn't complain about having either of those pitchers on my team.
I also like that Cabrera played in 161 games this year compared to Trout at 139. Trout is certainly a way better fielder and baserunner, and some of his missed games were definitely due to his intense playing style.
Luckily I don't feel like either player is un-deserving. It's too bad they both had such a good year at the same time.
EDIT: I should correct myself, forgot that Trout started in the minors in the beginning of the year. I can't fault him for missing games obviously if he wasn't on the roster...
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EDIT: I should correct myself, forgot that Trout started in the minors in the beginning of the year. I can't fault him for missing games obviously if he wasn't on the roster...
Actually you can. And I would. Well, fault isn't the right word. But simply playing in fewer games means he has less time to make an impact with his team. And it comes down to rate stats vs. counting stats. And I think for MVP voting, counting stats should be more important. That way you sort of get rid of the problems with Trout not playing the full season.
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'badketball' - I was going to correct that typo, then decided it was too appropriate.
As for a real sport, and the topic at hand:
I love my Giants. I'm a season ticket holder even if I don't have time to get to many games. I spend a lot of time down in the farm however (I used to work in the press box for their Single A team in San Jose). Two years ago was absolutely magical. This year however, I think our competition is a LOT more difficult.
When we went through Atlanta in 2010, we were facing a beat up and broken team. This year the Reds pitching is absolutely stifling. Cueto is filthy. Arroyo has been nasty for years, and Latos has a history of dominating the Giants. Get past those three, and you have Bailey bringing up the rear - and trust me, he's no slouch either as his recent no-hitter (and near perfecto) is a testament to (yes, it was against a flailing Pittsburgh, but Cain's gem was against Houston. They ARE still major league teams, and you tip your cap to efforts that those two men showed).
On the offensive side, they're a team that might struggle done in the dimensions of AT&T, but they'll certainly be hammering away in Cinci. The Giants almost HAVE to sweep out the two opening home games if we want to win. Despite our offense being considerably better on the road, I don't think we can take 2 of 3 in Cincinnati.
If we get through the Reds, I'll like our chances - no offense to DC/St. Louis/Atlanta. I think that on paper DC is the strongest of those three, with a powerful rotation of their own, a great bullpen, and a power offense. But they are comparable to 2010 Philly to me, and if we won there, we can win here.
Still, my prediction for the National League is the Reds.
In the American League, I would LOVE to see Baltimore beat Texas tonight, and then take it to the Yankees in the ALDS. They're having an awesome year, and they deserve to see this postseason deep. But I've watched a lot of Oakland games this year, and while I'm not usually a huge fan, I'll admit that they really have that magic feeling the Giants channeled in 2010. Here again, if they can make it past a tough opponent in the ALDS, taking out Detroit, look for Oakland to run all the way to the end. If they lose to Detroit, I think you'll see a Detroit/NY (despite my preference for Baltimore) ALCS, and ultimately NY in the Series.
Still, I'll go out on a limb here and pick Oakland.
Oakland v Cincinnati - Oakland in 6.
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Well if we're doing playoff predictions:
Wild Card: Rangers over Orioles, Atlanta over St. Louis
ALDS: Rangers over Yankees, A's over Detroit
ALCS: A's over Rangers (again)
NLDS: Nats Over Braves, Reds over Giants
NLCS: Reds over Nats
WS: Reds over A's
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let the record show that miguel cabrera arguably faced easier pitching than any other player in baseball. you play lots more games against teams in division, and the pitching in the al central is god-awful. the other 4 teams rank 19, 23, 28, and 29 in runs allowed. and of course, miggy's rbi totals are boosted by having good obp guys like berry and jackson batting ahead of him.
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Actually you can. And I would. Well, fault isn't the right word. But simply playing in fewer games means he has less time to make an impact with his team. And it comes down to rate stats vs. counting stats. And I think for MVP voting, counting stats should be more important. That way you sort of get rid of the problems with Trout not playing the full season.
what he said. it's a big part of the reason pitchers have such a tough time winning the mvp.
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Incidentally you can learn a lot about a baseball fan by asking whether he supports Cabrera or Trout for MVP.
Indeed you can. Unfortunately, Cabrera is going to win even though Trout has been a far better player. The triple crown just carries too much traditional weight for the Baseball Writers Association to not pick Cabrera. The biggest problem with the triple crown is of course the RBI statistic. RBI's really don't say much about the player who has them, but more about the teammates around the player. Mike Trout bats leadoff, which unfortunately for him results in way fewer RBI opportunities. There are other reasons to vote Trout. Center field is a more important defensive position than third base and Trout is an excellent center fielder. Cabrera was an average or worse first baseman, which translates into a below average third baseman. It's amazing that Detroit did this well considering they have a TERRIBLE defense. Trout's stolen bases are HUGE too.
It comes down to the MVP voters not really being sabermetrically-minded. Trout's 10.7 WAR this year puts him in Hall of Fame territory in his rookie(!) year.
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Well, its no Cricket, but its alright I suppose...
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OK, enough of this Trout vs. Cabrera debate. Let's talk about the real award: NL CY Young.
Dickey for President Cy Young!
(http://www.bloomergirlsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dickey-Face.jpg)
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Dickey for President Cy Young!
I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.
I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).
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Dickey for President Cy Young!
I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.
I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).
First, as a Phillies fan you are an objectively terrible human being. But if you think Dickey should win, you might not be beyond saving. Second, I think from a purely pitching production standpoint, it's really freaking close between Kershaw and Dickey, with maybe the slightest of edges going to Kershaw. But if you factor in even a fraction of the narrative, Dickey wins in a landslide. Dude is freaking amazing. As for the actual vote, I see no way Kershaw even sniffs the award. While wins are a useless stat, there are still enough voters who care about them to dismiss Kershaw and his 13 outright.
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Dickey for President Cy Young!
I'd like to see Dickey win it, as much as it pains me to say that as a Phillies fan. I have a feeling Kershaw might pull it out though, but Dickey is such a great guy AND he's been pitching hurt all year. What a man.
I guess it would naturally follow from me being a Phillies fan that I hope the Nationals, Braves and Giants all crash and burn in the playoffs. And the Cardinals too... So uh, go Reds! In the American league, I'm rooting for the A's, Orioles and Rangers (in that order).
First, as a Phillies fan you are an objectively terrible human being. But if you think Dickey should win, you might not be beyond saving. Second, I think from a purely pitching production standpoint, it's really freaking close between Kershaw and Dickey, with maybe the slightest of edges going to Kershaw. But if you factor in even a fraction of the narrative, Dickey wins in a landslide. Dude is freaking amazing. As for the actual vote, I see no way Kershaw even sniffs the award. While wins are a useless stat, there are still enough voters who care about them to dismiss Kershaw and his 13 outright.
Well, based on that response and your love for Dickey, there's a 99% chance you're a Mets fan. Unfortunately, that means I hate you. But as a saving grace, at least we can join hands and celebrate together the retirement of one of the most soul crushing figures in both of our teams' long history: Chipper Jones. May he live happily ever after at Hooters and never come near our stadiums again.
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Usually "Go Birds!" is clear and succinct, however this year out of deference to Baltimore I will say: GO CARDINALS!
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I would think that as a Phillies fan you'd at least try to support Cliff Lee for the Cy Young even though you know it'd never happen.
Also, I wasn't aware that anyone hated Mets fans. Yankees, sure, Red Sox, of course, but Mets? They're so harmless.
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If you're a Philly fan, you have to. It's part of the contract.
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I would think that as a Phillies fan you'd at least try to support Cliff Lee for the Cy Young even though you know it'd never happen.
Also, I wasn't aware that anyone hated Mets fans. Yankees, sure, Red Sox, of course, but Mets? They're so harmless.
Anybody related to the Phillies hates anybody related to the Mets and vice versa. Such is the way of nature. As for Lee, it certainly was an interesting and unlucky year for him. I'm sure Cole Hamels will get some odd Cy Young votes here and there. It just shows how much the Cy Young award really isn't about overall pitching performance. Lee and Hamels have very similar numbers outside of W-L record. I think awards voters are getting better about forgetting traditional (read: useless) stats, though. King Felix winning the Cy two years ago (with like 11 wins vs CC Sabathia's 20?) was definitely a step in the right direction.
FYI I also hate the Yankees (my girlfriend is a huge Yankees fan, which is wonderful) and the Red Sox. There's just a special spot in the darkest place of my soul for the Mets. For one, the two teams have a long history of never being good at the same time. One has usually been utterly devastated by the other at any given point in time. Both franchises have long long periods of utter suckitude anyway, so there's some type of commiseration between the teams. Somehow that commiseration ends up turning into more pleasure when the other team sucks. My team may have completely fallen apart this year, but I can take comfort knowing that we beat the Mets. It makes following a 102 win season with this load of fail a little easier to swallow.
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The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.
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The collapse of '07 was the one of my best memories. My team had 2 philly fans, and 2 die hard mets fans.... we had a grand time. I should dig up some of the emails.
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The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.
Looks like I stopped being a lurker here at the perfect time! Is Howard overrated? HUGELY. Terrible, terrible contract he's signed to. Is J-Roll overrated? Absolutely not. He puts up very solid numbers for a shortstop and is signed to a very team-friendly deal. He's nowhere near his MVP season form (where he really shouldn't even have been MVP, but that's another discussion), but he's still a very productive bat from a premium defensive position where he performs above-average defensively. He also runs the bases well and is the face of the franchise. According to Fangraphs, Rollins was the 3rd most valuable shortstop in the majors this year after Zobrist and Desmond, even edging out Reyes. Would you rather have had Rollins or Reyes this year, considering salaries?
Next you're going to tell me that Utley is overrated... :P
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The Phillies/Mets rivalry is an interesting one. Cause for the longest time, Mets fans only had a passing dislike for the Phils fans. Our big hated rival was the braves. Particularly for me growing up during their ridiculous run in the 90s. Then the mets were sort of good again. Then really good. And then horrendous. And as our star fell, we had to watch those smug, insufferable people from philly rejoice that their once futile attempt at sports competence was no more. Especially as the mets historic collapse of '07 was happening. From then on, Phillies became public enemy number one. I don't like the braves making the playoffs, but better than the phillies with their overrated shortstop and first baseman.
Looks like I stopped being a lurker here at the perfect time! Is Howard overrated? HUGELY. Terrible, terrible contract he's signed to. Is J-Roll overrated? Absolutely not. He puts up very solid numbers for a shortstop and is signed to a very team-friendly deal. He's nowhere near his MVP season form (where he really shouldn't even have been MVP, but that's another discussion), but he's still a very productive bat from a premium defensive position where he performs above-average defensively. He also runs the bases well and is the face of the franchise. According to Fangraphs, Rollins was the 3rd most valuable shortstop in the majors this year after Zobrist and Desmond, even edging out Reyes. Would you rather have had Rollins or Reyes this year, considering salaries?
Next you're going to tell me that Utley is overrated... :P
I'd rather have reyes in him prime than rollins in his. Reyes decided to drop off a cliff though. And Rollins just keeps chuggin along. Though I guess you seem to be a reasonable person so that's good. Howard is much more overrated than rollins. Rollins is I think good, but not MVP level. And yes, he didn't deserve his. Anyway I wasn't really considering salaries, but yeah thats a point in rollins' favor too.
And I have a man crush on Utley. greatexpectations and I used to dream about the day when he would realize he was playing for a stupid team and defect to the mets. Now, with all the injuries, I'm not so sure.
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Uhoh Braves...
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I have mixed feelings about this. I want the Braves to lose but I don't want to see Chipper go out like this. That error was brutal.
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Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."
It's just you, Ron.
EDIT: That quote was in response to the crazy interference play.
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At least we don't have to suffer through the announcing stylings of Joe Buck...
Oh yeah jonts, do you think you guys have any hope of keeping Wright after this year?
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I think there's a good chance. I'm sure the mets will entertain offers for both Dickey and Wright in the offseason, but unless they get blown away they will probably look to extend them both. (cue the dickey extension innuendo) The mets should be looking a decent bit better in the next couple of years, especially if they can pick up a bat or two, and if wright and/or dickey go this offseason, the fanbase will revolt. And ownership doesnt want that.
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I really do feel bad about the Mets' financial situation. I want to beat you guys, but I want to beat you at your best. I've also really felt bad about Santana's injuries. I like Johan and was happy for his no hitter.
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I wouldnt expect much next year, but in two years we lose a couple of terrible contracts and we have a ton of pitching talent ready to come up. You also have to hope that the financial mess is sorted out (or hopefully the wilpons actually sell). So we could be competitive then.
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Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."
It's just you, Ron.
it's a shame they bring ron into the booth and not gary cohen.
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I understand why MLB added this extra round and boy did it work out well for the league. I really don't like this 1 game playoff though... Baseball is a grind. A 5 game series is enough of a crapshoot. It's like a dominion tournament where you play one game. How do you resolve 1st player advantage? BAM! Baseball and dominion intertwined.
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Ron Darling: "Is it just me or does this stuff only happen in the post season."
It's just you, Ron.
EDIT: That quote was in response to the crazy interference play.
ha, yeah. i love listening to announcers saying silly things
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I actually like it.
For starters, the purpose of the playoffs isn't really to determine the best team in baseball. If we wanted that, we'd look at regular season numbers and their much larger sample size. I mean, 5 or 7 games isn't enough. But the bigger reason for me is that the two wild cards facing off actually rewards the teams with better regular season records. So yeah, it sort of sucks for the two wild card teams, especially since the braves have proven to be a better team, but it's gives a good bump to winning chance for the division winners who are in general better teams (something something tigers).
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Another oopsies; this isn't looking good for the Bravos.
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That's true. I do like that it puts emphasis on winning your division. I just think it really sucks for the first wild card team who gets penalized for playing in a good division (in this case the Braves). It's a little unfortunate to have to play a 1 game series when a team with a worse record gets a free pass into the first real round. You are absolutely right about sample size and the best team not always winning (just look at the Cardinals barely squeaking in last year and going all the way through).
I think my biggest problem with the 1 game format is how the pitching rotations line up. You could potentially have a case like Justin Verlander vs a 4th/5th starter.
If I had to choose I don't know how I would determine the format. I like how the NHL does it, but I also like how baseball is the hardest sport to make the playoffs in. The biggest thing I'd like to change is to make the division series 7 games. Maybe this wild card round could be extended to 3 games. It's a tough call.
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It's getting ugly out there for Atlanta...
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I think my biggest problem with the 1 game format is how the pitching rotations line up. You could potentially have a case like Justin Verlander vs a 4th/5th starter.
Or Yu Darvish vs. let's say, Joe Saunders...
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what? No infield fly
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what? No infield fly
... That was... I don't even.... WHAT?
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well dangalang. Let's go Orioles!
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That's true. I do like that it puts emphasis on winning your division. I just think it really sucks for the first wild card team who gets penalized for playing in a good division (in this case the Braves). It's a little unfortunate to have to play a 1 game series when a team with a worse record gets a free pass into the first real round. You are absolutely right about sample size and the best team not always winning (just look at the Cardinals barely squeaking in last year and going all the way through).
Depends on what you're comparing it to. In a purist system, if you didn't win your division, you didn't make it into the playoffs in the first place.
Every system that rewards division winners, by definition, will have situations where the wild card team with a better record gets penalized for it.
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Now that was an exciting ending.
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Wanted to officially jot down "Go Reds!"
I love that there were two predictions in this thread, both having my Reds facing the As--a 1990 rematch.
Also, Cueto over Dickey for Cy. Okay, not gonna happen, but he's at least in the discussion.
And that infield fly call? Ridiculous.
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Also, Cueto over Dickey for Cy. Okay, not gonna happen, but he's at least in the discussion.
Only if the discussion is who's the third best pitcher in the NL this year.
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Also, Cueto over Dickey for Cy. Okay, not gonna happen, but he's at least in the discussion.
Only if the discussion is who's the third best pitcher in the NL this year.
Best pitcher in the NL in the playoffs. Remember, these are baseball writers who are voting.
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Ahh, Brandon Belt. Trying to channel his inner Panda. He losses style points for the lack of a bubble blown.
Sad to see the A's lose tonight, but Verlander is a tough assignment. Hopefully they can split tomorrow before coming back to Oakland.
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Wow, Cueto out. I think the pitch Pagan stepped out on did it. That's a huge blow to Cincinnati.
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Wow, Cueto out. I think the pitch Pagan stepped out on did it. That's a huge blow to Cincinnati.
Wait, what happened?
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Wow, Cueto out. I think the pitch Pagan stepped out on did it. That's a huge blow to Cincinnati.
Wait, what happened?
Injured himself pitching to first batter. Pagan stepped out during Cueto's 3 hour windup (kidding!). Ump never called time, but Cueto didn't deliver the pitch, instead holding it and over-torquing his core on the finishing side of his delivery. He got through two strikes on Scutero before being pulled.
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Wow, Cueto out. I think the pitch Pagan stepped out on did it. That's a huge blow to Cincinnati.
Wait, what happened?
Injured himself pitching to first batter. Pagan stepped out during Cueto's 3 hour windup (kidding!). Ump never called time, but Cueto didn't deliver the pitch, instead holding it and over-torquing his core on the finishing side of his delivery. He got through two strikes on Scutero before being pulled.
Yikes. I have audio going now. BP homer!
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Cinci radio saying Cueto had an issue before the game, so the aborted pitch must have tweaked it.
Do the Giants fans hate Latos from his SD days?
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Cinci radio saying Cueto had an issue before the game, so the aborted pitch must have tweaked it.
Do the Giants fans hate Latos from his SD days?
After he started signing baseballs "I hate the San Fransisco Giants - Mat Latos" and tossing them into the stands in SF - yes, they do.
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Cinci radio saying Cueto had an issue before the game, so the aborted pitch must have tweaked it.
Do the Giants fans hate Latos from his SD days?
After he started signing baseballs "I hate the San Fransisco Giants - Mat Latos" and tossing them into the stands in SF - yes, they do.
Yeah, I have the feeling Latos is the kind of player only his fans can like.
I have no beef with Giants fans, and think the org is classy, especially after opening day 11.
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Ok, 1 run. We're most definitely coming back, don't worry.
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Ok, 1 run. We're most definitely coming back, don't worry.
Not worried, unless Arredondo comes in.
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Ok, 1 run. We're most definitely coming back, don't worry.
Belt just can't catch a break tonight. He scorched one that Votto managed to grab, and then blooped one that just wouldn't fall. Watch for him in the 9th (or 8th if they can turn over sooner) to be a key part in their rally. He's due for something good to fall in.
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This is worth a gander:
http://www.redreporter.com/2012/10/6/3463202/what-would-ric-flair-do-to-get-ready-for-the-2012-nlds
Funny.
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Thought you guys might enjoy this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/O4yEq
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Thought you guys might enjoy this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/O4yEq
Fantastic. I'll be sharing it with my boss, a rabid Cards fan.
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Best pitcher in the NL in the playoffs. Remember, these are baseball writers who are voting.
uh yeah that still isn't true. gio gonzalez, matt cain, craig kimbrel, and aroldis chapman were just as good or better.
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Thought you guys might enjoy this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/O4yEq
Haha, I wondered what was special about that image for aaaages!
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Best pitcher in the NL in the playoffs. Remember, these are baseball writers who are voting.
uh yeah that still isn't true. gio gonzalez, matt cain, craig kimbrel, and aroldis chapman were just as good or better.
Just as good or better is relative, of course. Gio was definitely great, and has the edge in wins and Ks, Cueto in WAR (albeit iffy for pitchers generally), walks, and ERA. Chapman/Kimbrel are in the discussion, but when there are this many great starters in the convo, I feel like closers won't really have a chance to win the award.
I don't buy the Cain argument--has a better WHIP and more Ks, but falls behind everywhere else.
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Matt Cain leads Cueto (and in fact the entire NL) in fielding dependent wins. And since he's been consistently good at that over the years, it's likely that WAR undervalues him. Also he has a better k/bb ratio than Cueto and is just about tied in ERA. He probably wasn't quite as good as Cueto this year, but it's close.
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Matt Cain leads Cueto (and in fact the entire NL) in fielding dependent wins. And since he's been consistently good at that over the years, it's likely that WAR undervalues him. Also he has a better k/bb ratio than Cueto and is just about tied in ERA. He probably wasn't quite as good as Cueto this year, but it's close.
Cain is definitely a fantastic pitcher, year in/year out. I think we agree in the end though, based on your last sentence.
My guess is Dickey gets it over Kershaw, and Cueto/Cain lose out anyway.
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Also, I actually root for SF Giants. Mainly because Barry Bonds played for them when I wanted a team to root for. He used to hit pretty good when he got pitches he could actually bat at.
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Just as good or better is relative, of course.
as is 'best pitcher in the playoffs'.
Gio was definitely great, and has the edge in wins and Ks, Cueto in WAR (albeit iffy for pitchers generally), walks, and ERA. Chapman/Kimbrel are in the discussion, but when there are this many great starters in the convo, I feel like closers won't really have a chance to win the award.
I don't buy the Cain argument--has a better WHIP and more Ks, but falls behind everywhere else.
gio has a better fip, cueto has a tougher park but an easier division to pitch in. and we can agree to disagree on the closers argument. there are a few good starters, but it has been a while since any reliever has had as good a year as these guys had. and of course they both get that magical 'playoff team' bump. cain's whip is largely due to having the better babip. but as jonts26 pointed out his low babip and hr/9 rates have been repeatable so you can't just chalk that to luck. and cain and cueto have nearly identical walk rates and era. cueto's only clear edge over cain is a tougher park.
but in the end it's all dickey, all the time.
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Were you referring to the one that Phillies future Hall of Famer Eric Bruntlett (read: a terrible terrible player) pulled off to end the game vs the Mets a few years ago? Man, that was awesome. Mostly because it was against the Mets.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=6256159 (http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=6256159)
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I can't watch the clip from my phone, so I'll have to get back to you on that. All I can remember is that it was probably five or six years ago.
I've never been good at players. I had a few favorite ones back in the days, but not really based on their performances, but rather because of something they did during a game I happened to catch.
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http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20050425&c_id=mlb
I'm pretty sure it was that one.
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Also, I actually root for SF Giants. Mainly because Barry Bonds played for them when I wanted a team to root for. He used to hit pretty good when he got pitches he could actually bat at.
How can someone from Europe like baseball is beyond me.
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Also, I actually root for SF Giants. Mainly because Barry Bonds played for them when I wanted a team to root for. He used to hit pretty good when he got pitches he could actually bat at.
How can someone from Europe like baseball is beyond me.
Dont you live in the world of silly sports? Like Floorball? FLOORBALL? I mean, come on!
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It's a nice sport to watch. Easy to follow unlike, say, hockey. And it gets pretty tense and exciting at times too!
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It's a nice sport to watch. Easy to follow unlike, say, hockey. And it gets pretty tense and exciting at times too!
I enjoy Hockey. It's second only to baseball. How in the world is it hard to follow?
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Also, I actually root for SF Giants. Mainly because Barry Bonds played for them when I wanted a team to root for. He used to hit pretty good when he got pitches he could actually bat at.
How can someone from Europe like baseball is beyond me.
Dont you live in the world of silly sports? Like Floorball? FLOORBALL? I mean, come on!
No one, I mean no one, watches floorball on tv, it's not a spectator sport. But it's a fun game to play, easy and good exercise without having to buy expensive equipment and stuff + it's easy and everyone knows how.
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I like baseball. Not too much coverage here, though. I do remember an unassisted triple play a few years back that was pretty cool.
Also, I actually root for SF Giants. Mainly because Barry Bonds played for them when I wanted a team to root for. He used to hit pretty good when he got pitches he could actually bat at.
How can someone from Europe like baseball is beyond me.
Dont you live in the world of silly sports? Like Floorball? FLOORBALL? I mean, come on!
No one, I mean no one, watches floorball on tv, it's not a spectator sport. But it's a fun game to play, easy and good exercise without having to buy expensive equipment and stuff + it's easy and everyone knows how.
You know what's easy to play, good exercise, and everybody knows how? Tag.
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It's a nice sport to watch. Easy to follow unlike, say, hockey. And it gets pretty tense and exciting at times too!
I enjoy Hockey. It's second only to baseball. How in the world is it hard to follow?
Wait wait wait, Hockey? Or Ice Hockey....
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It's a nice sport to watch. Easy to follow unlike, say, hockey. And it gets pretty tense and exciting at times too!
I enjoy Hockey. It's second only to baseball. How in the world is it hard to follow?
Oh, you know. Men chasing a puck around, and you can't see the puck. To me that would be like wathing a game of Quidditch with only golden snitches.
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Nononononononoooooooo
Hockey has a BALL!
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Land hockey is like cricket. Totally unenjoyable. ;) I've heard they have tea breaks in cricket and that's about what I think is good about it.
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Land hockey is like cricket. Totally unenjoyable. ;) I've heard they have tea breaks in cricket and that's about what I think is good about it.
Land Hockey = Hockey
And I repeat FLOORBALL?!?!
you may as well play Sitting Volleyball, or Ultimate Frisbee, or Tag Rugby!
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Land hockey is like cricket. Totally unenjoyable. ;) I've heard they have tea breaks in cricket and that's about what I think is good about it.
Land Hockey = Hockey
And I repeat FLOORBALL?!?!
you may as well play Sitting Volleyball, or Ultimate Frisbee, or Tag Rugby!
Hey, Ultimate is a sport. I don't like that implication, sir.
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It's a pastime at best!
Just looked it up, its included in The World Games.....which also includes such luminaries as......Tumbling, Canoe Polo, Fistball, Lifesaving and Casting (as in Fishing, but without the actual fishing part)
That about sums it up!
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It's a pastime at best!
Just looked it up, its included in The World Games.....which also includes such luminaries as......Tumbling, Canoe Polo, Fistball, Lifesaving and Casting (as in Fishing, but without the actual fishing part)
That about sums it up!
Go read my post again. Same arguments apply to ultimate frisbee too, by the way. And the difference with tag is that floorball and ultimate frisbee are FUN to play. Personally I don't find any sport particularly enjoyable to spectate, but basketball is pretty cool because at least something happens.
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Hey man, I don't like my sport being grouped with Casting. It's pretty serious stuff. I've dislocated a shoulder, and once shutoff half my quad muscle playing that sport.
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it would be much appreciated if you all could take your side discussion elsewhere so that we can focus this thread on things such as the majesty of carlos beltran.
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Yeah, how did anyone derail me from baseball!! That's a cardinal sin. Ha, Cardinals.
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Hey man, I don't like my sport being grouped with Casting. It's pretty serious stuff. I've dislocated a shoulder, and once shutoff half my quad muscle playing that sport.
I didn't group it there, the IOC did!
Anyway, back to Baseball....they used to show it live here in the UK, one game a week in the early hours, but NFL has pretty much taken its spot now
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Scratch and claw.
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Go Birds!
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Let's go Gigantes. Time to wake this slumbering offense up. You lead the NL in runs scored on the road this season. This .121 team average does NOT suit you. Let's rile up some offense, defeat Leake today, and carry in some steam to meet Latos in game 5!
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Stupid thing about baseball #1234: Playoffs during standard business hours.
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to be fair, i don't think that the fans or players like that much either.
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It's turning into a fine day of baseball. /awesome.
Now I just need to see the Oriole's and A's win.
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Now I just need to see the Oriole's and A's win.
sounds good to me. though i'd have preferred to see a reds win.
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Would be funny if the giants lost two at home only to sweep cincinnati away.
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Would be funny if the giants lost two at home only to sweep cincinnati away.
That's been their game all year. Lose at home, win on the road. Prior to the final series against the Dodgers, they'de gone 10-0-1 in their last 11 road series dating back to July 17th.
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freaking yankees
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freaking yankees
Grr...
And Pennington just struck out with 2 down, men on the corners for Oakland. Blaaah. Need some offense there.
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+.827 WPA (http://www.fangraphs.com/livewins.aspx?date=2012-10-10&team=Yankees&dh=0&season=2012)
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+.827 WPA (http://www.fangraphs.com/livewins.aspx?date=2012-10-10&team=Yankees&dh=0&season=2012)
Which is apparently the 4th highest for a player in the postseason ever.
EDIT: Here is the best ever. David Freese game 6 of last years world series. (http://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=2011-10-27&team=Cardinals&dh=0&season=2011)
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WOOO A's.
I was ready for this to be a completely lost day of baseball after Nats, Reds, and Orioles all lost. And the A's down by 2 in the 9th.
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WOOO A's.
I was ready for this to be a completely lost day of baseball after Nats, Reds, and Orioles all lost. And the A's down by 2 in the 9th.
Psh, today was a perfect day except for the Yanks. 3 of 4 isn't bad!
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SO glad to see both my hometeams show fight here. What an awesome set of LDS's.
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Can someone explain to me why the Nationals are losing so badly. Besides no Strasburg and Bryce going 1-15, why are we getting so mercilessly slaughtered?
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Can someone explain to me why the Nationals are losing so badly. Besides no Strasburg and Bryce going 1-15, why are we getting so mercilessly slaughtered?
It's simple. The cardinals are charmed. Every year they sneak into the playoffs and then magically transform into the best team that ever played the game. Infuriating.
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F***ing Yankees, Reports Nation (http://www.theonion.com/articles/fucking-yankees-reports-nation,2257/)
that onion article is a must-read for all the baseball fans out there. 5 years old and still relevant. raul ibanez? really?
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Alright G-men. Let's go. 1 more today.
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F***ing Yankees, Reports Nation (http://www.theonion.com/articles/fucking-yankees-reports-nation,2257/)
that onion article is a must-read for all the baseball fans out there. 5 years old and still relevant. raul ibanez? really?
I do love my Onion.
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/pumped
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woooo!
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1000 times yes
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WHOOOOOOO!
ftfy.
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yeeeeeuh.
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yeeeeeuh.
Just... Awesome. Completely awesome.
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Now that's come classic #torture!
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Good job Nat's. While I want the Redbirds to win that series, I'm glad to see a forced 5th game, and a forced use of a Starter.
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i am glad too. as a neutral fan in the playoffs, i mostly just want to see game 5/7's and extra inning games.
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This is crazy! All the series went 5 games! I wonder when the last time that happened was?
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This is crazy! All the series went 5 games! I wonder when the last time that happened was?
Never.
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well now that's something. Here's to full series!!!
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This is crazy! All the series went 5 games! I wonder when the last time that happened was?
Never.
"Never" sounds like a long time. But really, divisional series have only existed since 1995 (technically 1994 when the league expanded to 28 teams and re-aligned to 3 divisions per league, but they didn't happen due to the strike), so this is only the 18th year they've been played...
But still, playoffs have been particularly good this year.
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Redacted Yankee's.
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What a phenomenal game to finish LDS on. Absolutely exhilarating. Even Nationals fans, as much as this sucks, have to have some serious respect for the incredible fight that the Cards have shown. I tip my hat to both teams. They both left their hearts out on the field - no matter who comes out on top tonight.
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Good Lord, these have been some crazy playoffs. I have to say though, I really despise the cardinals more and more every year. Barely sneaking into the playoffs and then pulling crazy shenanigan after crazy shenanigan. Every single feel good playoff story is dead. I think I'm forced to root for the Giants now.
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Also, in regards to my playoff predictions. It is impossible for me to have been more wrong.
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Also, in regards to my playoff predictions. It is impossible for me to have been more wrong.
Yeah, so much for my Reds-A's, A's in 6 prediction. But wow, that was such an impressive game. I don't begrudge the Card's what they've done. They epitomize "Anything can happen in October." They really do. But I won't ever consider them underdogs. I won't ever consider them weak, or incapable, or out. I respect what they've proven they can do. But unless they're playing the Dodgers or Yankees, I just have to pull for whatever team they're facing. They need to be set down a few times. It'll be good for them, and it'll be great for fans. These walk off, or come back, or never give up story lines are just becoming ridiculous. I tip my hat. I respect them. But I'm ready for them to lose.
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Not that I have watched a lot of baseball this year--having no TV makes sport watching a bit difficult--but after last night's games I now have absolutely no interest in following the playoffs anymore as all 4 times that I wanted to win lost... SF vs an Albert Pulosless St. Louis--nothing there. Detroit vs the Yankees... only my two least favorite AL baseball teams of all time... no interest there.
Sigh... TBS on the other hand, I am sure, is thrilled that all the large market teams made it through.
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I mostly agree with you on the team level. I really don't care for any of them. But there are some interesting story lines that could unfold. Can Carlos Beltran continue to be the best postseason hitter of all time? At least one Sabathia/Verlander game. Can Verlander continue his historic postseason strikeout rates? Can we get three game 7's for maximum postseason games?
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I kind of hate it when people try to weave story lines of individual players into the playoffs. I just want to see awesome baseball!
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Sigh... TBS on the other hand, I am sure, is thrilled that all the large market teams made it through.
San Fransisco has 800,000 people. The greater bay area has ~3 million people split between two teams. Not quite large-market.
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Sigh... TBS on the other hand, I am sure, is thrilled that all the large market teams made it through.
San Fransisco has 800,000 people. The greater bay area has ~3 million people split between two teams. Not quite large-market.
According to wikipedia, the Bay Area metro is 4.3 million, and they surely draw from Sacramento and other more rural parts of Northern CA. Also I'm pretty sure the Giants have the lion's share of the fans in the area.
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FREAKING RAUL IBANEZ
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FREAKING RAUL IBANEZ
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carlos beltran - so hot he might be nsfw
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Any thoughts RE: Holliday's slide last night? Dirty or clean? Inside or out of the "spirit of the rule"?
Obviously as a Giant's fan I can't be pleased, but I'm very happy with the way the Giant's handled it. You don't get payback by knocking the guy in the ear with high heat - you get even by taking your anger out on the opposing pitcher. The last thing any team wants to do is wake up a slumbering offense (and there is no question the Giant's were sleeping sound prior to that).
As for the slide itself... I think it was uncalled for. Had that been Pablo tackling late the Cardinal's would be in an uproar - and quite right to be so. It was beyond a "good, clean hard slide". I have no doubt Holliday meant no harm to Scutero, but the play wasn't safe, and it IS how people get hurt. "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it when you're talking about someone's season - especially this late in the year.
I think you'll see the Giant's plunk Holliday next year, probably in his back (not head), and I doubt you'll hear too much complaining from the Cardinal players (fans are another question). That's baseball. But I hate seeing anybody put at risk due to an over aggressive, unsafe play. And that's how I saw the slide.
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I don't think the slide was fair.
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holliday into scutaro (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25416471&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_manager_postgame)
compare with:
swisher into nishioka (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110407&content_id=17493642&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)
utley into tejada (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100924&content_id=15027872¬ebook_id=15050686&vkey=notebook_nym&c_id=nym)
it's a dirty play that i'd love for mlb to ban, just as i want them to get rid of home plate collisions. as a giants fan, you probably agree there. but to me, his slide was still totally within the rules. i would argue that the other two i linked (first two off the top of my head) are just as bad or worse, and similar plays happen all the time.
the difference here was that
A. the slide legitimately prevented the double play and could have been key in extending the inning
B. there was some degree of injury
C. the slide took place during a playoff game on a national stage.
take even one of those away and there is less discussion. im pretty sure this slide has already seen more coverage and angst than swisher's slide which broke a friggin leg.
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Wait, so you are allowed to slide/tackle a baseman to prevent him from throwing the ball? Because that's what I get their intent was.
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Wait, so you are allowed to slide/tackle a baseman to prevent him from throwing the ball? Because that's what I get their intent was.
unfortunately, yes. you are also allowed to collide with the catcher on a play at home plate if he is blocking your path to home. going into second base, i believe you just have to A. stay in the baseline/be able to touch second base with the slide and B. have some part of your body on the ground before contact so that it is a slide and not a tackle. i'll go look up the official rule and edit it in here.
edit:
rule 7.09.d/e (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp) appear to be the relevant rules here. with the clarification on rule 7.09.d, as long as you are just continuing your attempt to the base you are probably ok. as toolshed points out though, you still have to adhere to rules 7.08.a.
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Wait, so you are allowed to slide/tackle a baseman to prevent him from throwing the ball? Because that's what I get their intent was.
Yes, though you're supposed to stay in the basepath. Some of these slides take liberty with the width of the basepath, though. I wouldn't be surprised if these slides end up being as big of a discussion as the catcher/homeplate fiasco caused last year when Buster Posey got trucked. It's dangerous, yes, but baseball is steeped in tradition. You play the game the "right" way. Look how long it's taken to add any type of instant replay, which we definitely need more of.
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Then I think the slide was within the rules, but I don't really like that kind of play.
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Then I think the slide was within the rules, but I don't really like that kind of play.
i would be surprised if you found many fans who actually did like that kind of play. but then again many fans don't like catcher collisions and want instant replay too.
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baseball baseball baseball. baseball. baseball baseball.
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baseball baseball baseball. baseball. baseball baseball.
Yesterdays loss hurt. Makes game 4 (now) a near must-win, and we do it with our Ace burned (yesterday), and theirs on the mound. Ouch.
Timmy is not sharp (again), but he's somehow kept us close thusfar. Glad to see Pence fire one out. Here's hoping we take this one tonight.
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Oh, that Pence shot was sweet. With the pregame announcers saying how disappointing Pence was and that his cold bat was the downfall of the Giants. Well cold bat that stuff, announcers.
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Oh, that Pence shot was sweet. With the pregame announcers saying how disappointing Pence was and that his cold bat was the downfall of the Giants. Well cold bat that stuff, announcers.
Well, to be fair, Pence HAS been killing us out there. Yeah, not all on his own... But his lack of ANYTHING in the first 8 games was a real drag. The whole team though... Man, you don't leave 11 on base through 7 innings (as they did last night)! We need our guys to start chaining hits like they did all season.
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Way to fight Giants.
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Giants are still in this. (I just noticed this threads existence and this post is mostly just to follow.)
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WHOOOOOOOO! Let's go Giants!
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YEAH BABY!
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:)!!!!
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Wow.
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Nothing makes sense anymore.
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Zito's line I would've believed.
Lincecum was unsurprising.
Scutero did his thing.
But Sandoval.... Wow. A bases clearing triple off Verlander in the AS game, and TWO Homers off him tonight (with a third later for good measure)? What does he see that nobody else in baseball does? He's dominates Verlander.
Also, props to Zito for the two-strike, two-out RBI off Verlander as well.
Solid night Giants. The hard one is out of the way. Keep it up.