Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Voltaire on September 13, 2012, 05:25:38 pm
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Welcome to Blitz Mafia II: Mafia in Space!
Everything was going well for the interstellar ship Prosperity. After three months in deep space, arrival at the colony planet of Colony (never let bookkeepers name anything) was just three weeks away. But the captain, eager to arrive ahead of schedule and earn a promotion, has taken the ship on a dangerous shortcut through an unexplored asteroid belt. The only danger is the asteroids themselves, the captain insists - there certainly aren't any shapeshifting aliens lying in wait! The crew exchange looks. Perhaps they should be in charge - or perhaps the real danger isn't human at all...
This game will start on Monday, 9/17 at noon forum time if 9 players have signed up by 6:30 PM forum time on 9/14. (This is to account for my V/LA this weekend). Otherwise, the game will start any time after Monday when we have 9 players.
It has 24 hour day deadlines and 12 hour night deadlines because of the vastly different time zones.
Players Signed Up:
1. Robz888 - mutineer - lynched Day 3
2. jotheonah - passenger
3. Captain_Frisk - mutineer - lynched Day 1
4. Archetype - xenobiologist - killed Night 1
5. Insomniac - android
6. ashersky - detective - killed Night 2
7. SwitchedFromStarcraft - passenger
8. Eevee - passenger
9. shraeye - passenger - lynched Day 2
Vote Counts
Day 1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4667.msg108429#msg108429)
Day 2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4667.msg108971#msg108971)
Day 3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4667.msg109149#msg109149)
Blitz Mafia Ruleset Changes in RED BECAUSE RED GOES FASTER
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 12 HOUR DEADLINES from Night start). If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
- In the case of a tie, the first person to reach the highest total is lynched
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will have 24 HOUR deadlines. If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, the player with most votes currently on them will be lynched, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice. - Rule Cut
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.[/s] - RULE CUT
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
Game Setup
Game Setup information:
The setup used for this game is a variation on Carbon-14 (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Carbon-14), expanded to 9 players. The central twist is that the ship (town) has two Cops, each of which can only investigate one scum faction. The ship does not know which scum faction is in the game (and therefore, which Cop is useful). The ship also has a Flavor Cop who returns VT/not VT. Everything is flavored something wonderful.
ROLES (tentative - see discussion in thread)
- 2 mutineers (scum, mafia goon) OR 2 aliens (scum, mafia goon)
- 1 Xenobiologist (ship, alien cop)
- 1 Detective (ship, mutineer cop)
- 1 Android (ship, flavor cop)
- 4 Passengers (ship, vanilla)
Here are all the role PMs that are in the game (remember, only 1 scum faction will actually show up):
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Mutineer
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mutineer, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
Win condition: You win when all members of the ship have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
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Alien
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are an Alien, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
Win condition: You win when all members of the ship have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
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Passenger
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Passenger.
Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition: You win when all threats to the ship have been eliminated.
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Xenobiologist
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Xenobiologist.
Abilities: Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Alien/Not Alien.
Win condition: You win when all threats to the ship have been eliminated.
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Detective
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Detective.
Abilities: Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Mutineer/Not Mutineer.
Win condition: You win when all threats to the ship have been eliminated.
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Android
Welcome, [Player Name], you are an Android.
Abilities: Each night phase, you may investigate one player in the game by PM'ing the mod. You will get results back in the form of Passenger/Not Passenger.
Win condition: You win when all threats to the ship have been eliminated.
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TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
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In.
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In.
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In.
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PLEASE NOTE: I originally misstated the number of scum and VTs. The correct numbers are 3 of each. Original post updated.
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PLEASE NOTE: I originally misstated the number of scum and VTs. The correct numbers are 3 of each. Original post updated.
3 scum seems to really favour scum especially with no jk or doctor. That's one mislynch and you're in lylo.
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PLEASE NOTE: I originally misstated the number of scum and VTs. The correct numbers are 3 of each. Original post updated.
3 scum seems to really favour scum especially with no jk or doctor. That's one mislynch and you're in lylo.
I asked for help from 2 experienced players. If those playing have a problem with the balance, I will gladly go back into consultation mode and adjust before the game starts.
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In
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/in
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3 Is far too many scum for 9 players though
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think about it; 1 mislynch and the town is at Lynch or Lose.
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3 Is far too many scum for 9 players though
Even with 3 cops? It basically makes the game all about D2. It is blitz mafia...
...but once we have a full ship, I'll ask whether players prefer 2 or 3 mafia. Moderator decision will be final, but I'll listen to your input. :)
Many thanks to those already signed up, should be a fast and fun first-time mod experience for me, and a fast and fun game for everyone.
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It's not 3 cops, one is completely useless.
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It's not 3 cops, one is completely useless.
Correct. Apologies. That's what I get for rapid posting.
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It's not 3 cops, one is completely useless.
Correct. Apologies. That's what I get for rapid posting.
Scum slip. Vote: Voltaire ;)
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/not in, but posting so I can stay updated. I would also like the quicktopic
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/in for sure
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It's not 3 cops, one is completely useless.
Correct. Apologies. That's what I get for rapid posting.
Scum slip. Vote: Voltaire ;)
More like modslip!
Everyone's comments here have been very helpful and pointed out a very basic issue with the setup that I did not originally see. I've already learned a lot about moderating - in 30 minutes! I am standing by my original word and will not officially change the setup until signups are full and I hear from the players, but it seems clear we'll turn 1 mafia into a VT. Thanks to all!
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/not in, but posting so I can stay updated. I would also like the quicktopic
Same. I want to watch this one, and with two games coming out of night and one starting, the next week could be busy.
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Make sure you put SFS on the list of /in's though, or he may miss signups. He was one of the most vocal about wanting to get into another right away.
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Make sure you put SFS on the list of /in's though, or he may miss signups. He was one of the most vocal about wanting to get into another right away.
Good point, thanks!
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crazy how fast this game is filling up while it took a couple of attempts to fill up Insomniac's...
I think everyone was a little apprehensive about it the first game. (I was)
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Also not in but I do want to point out that switching one alien/mutineer to VT doesn't make the android overpowered or anything since it can get a false negative by investigating the other investigators.
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Eevee has been added as he expressed interest in the Queue thread. Eevee, please post here to confirm that you want in.
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
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crazy how fast this game is filling up while it took a couple of attempts to fill up Insomniac's...
I think everyone was a little apprehensive about it the first game. (I was)
Yeah, it's nuts!
One spot left. Looks like this will definitely start on Monday. Once it's official, I'll update the original post.
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Make sure you put SFS on the list of /in's though, or he may miss signups. He was one of the most vocal about wanting to get into another right away.
Good point, thanks!
SwitchedFromStarcraft, please also post here to confirm your spot. It's been reserved just for you.
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
No worries; I really appreciate it. There will be a spectator QT as always. :)
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
:( No Volt/Galz/Yuma. At least Galz/Yuma were in mine, but you Volt, you weren't you could totally be in this one!
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
... isn't that the same with 2/5?
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
... isn't that the same with 2/5?
I was also a consultant and saw the one-mislynch-LyLo problem, but since the original setup had it I thought it was ok to keep it.
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I am interested. I cannot play if the game begins within the next week. If it is a later start than that, I will consider. It also depends on how I am doing in MXI.
So, I am tentatively in.
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
... isn't that the same with 2/5?
Depends if you open torturer/pearl diver or torturer/-
On a serious note I don't see what you mean Axxle mine had 9 people it was a 2/7
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I feel very embarrassed that I was (1) one of the players consulted and (2) didn't see the one-mislynch-LyLo problem. That's what I get for thinking about larger games more often than smaller games. Blargh. My deepest apologies, Voltaire.
My schedule isn't well-suited to participate in Blitz Mafia I'm afraid, but I'll be watching this with great interest.
... isn't that the same with 2/5?
Depends if you open torturer/pearl diver or torturer/-
On a serious note I don't see what you mean Axxle mine had 9 people it was a 2/7
The setup Voltaire extrapolated from has 2 scum, 5 town.
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hmm thats definetly interesting then, I guess with 2 cops assuming the scum aren't extremely lucky they could have a tough time. but is the 2/5 one meant for long deadline games?
EDIT: Short time frame games favour scum over town and hence why I poised the question
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hmm thats definetly interesting then, I guess with 2 cops assuming the scum aren't extremely lucky they could have a tough time. but is the 2/5 one meant for long deadline games?
EDIT: Short time frame games favour scum over town and hence why I poised the question
Probably not, I was just looking for open, small-sized games that didn't have crazy variations (no night phase! The mafia can't kill anyone! and other nutso stuff).
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Also Axxle since your peeking in here, you should play.
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Make sure you put SFS on the list of /in's though, or he may miss signups. He was one of the most vocal about wanting to get into another right away.
Good point, thanks!
SwitchedFromStarcraft, please also post here to confirm your spot. It's been reserved just for you.
Dude, I feel so wanted!
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!!
Have I mentioned how I hate being wrong? :)
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Have I mentioned how I hate being wrong? :)
You should watch me try to mod - it'll make you feel better.
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Also Axxle since your peeking in here, you should play.
Nah, don't have the time to play in such a fast paced game.
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heck, I think I'm interested. Is there still room?
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heck, I think I'm interested. Is there still room?
You have the last spot! We'll wait for Eevee to confirm before we finalize setup. Anyone who wants in after this will be added to the sub/replacement list if anyone drops out before we start.
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Oh yes! Thanks for holding a spot for me despite my mistake of sleeping. I'll make sure not to screw up like this when the game is on it's way!
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awww man I want in. : (
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I'll host a 3rd one that supports an arbitrary number of players when this one finishes jo! sorry you missed out.
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awww man I want in. : (
If Voltaire doesnt mind, I can drop out and have joth replace me. I do own him for hosting that sweet BM game. :)
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I can host ZM3 if there is interest?
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@Arch, if you want out I'm happy to take your spot, but if you want to play you should play. I'm perfectly happy to sit one out.
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VOTE: Robz888
He feels different here than he did in M4 and ZM1, where he was town.
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@Arch, if you want out I'm happy to take your spot, but if you want to play you should play. I'm perfectly happy to sit one out.
I do want to play, but if you really want in, you can have my spot.
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VOTE: Robz888
He feels different here than he did in M4 and ZM1, where he was town.
I know, right? I mean:
In.
Is just such an obvscum slip. It's just so NOT like him to not put a / in front of his "in.". The only explanation is that he's scum. Good catch!
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Killing Robz is this new fad that better blow over.
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Killing Robz is this new fad that better blow over.
Stop being scum in SO MANY games. Seriously man, you've been on a roll.
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I hate being wrong.
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Archetype/jotheonah, you have until mid-day Sunday to figure out which of you is playing. Post here so I know who to expect. Apologies to those who did not make it in - I'm not comfortable modding a larger setup on my first go, but it looks like ZM3 won't be far around the corner!
Role PMs will go out late in the day Sunday, 9/16. Scum will have pre-game until we start on Monday, 9/17 at noon forum time. As a reminder, days will be 24 hours long. Nights will be 12 hours long. If no-one has received a majority of lynch votes by deadline, a plurality lynch will occur (unless enough people have voted "no lynch").
IMPORTANT: I will be changing the setup back to 2 scum, 4 VT based on feedback in this thread. If players object, you have until 6:30 PM forum time today to register your objection. Setup will become official at that time.
SPECTATOR QT NOW AVAILABLE for those who just can't wait...you might have a problem.
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Archetype is playing. Points to him for being a really nice guys though. I'm gonna go +1 some random posts of his outside of the forum games. I'll hold off on the speccy in case need arises for a replacement.
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jotheonah can have my spot. I realized I don't actually have time to play this one next week. good luck!
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jotheonah can have my spot. I realized I don't actually have time to play this one next week. good luck!
Archetype is playing. Points to him for being a really nice guys though. I'm gonna go +1 some random posts of his outside of the forum games. I'll hold off on the speccy in case need arises for a replacement.
Then you're in, jotheonah!
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Coolio
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Coolio
Remember scummy jailkeepers die, MVII and ZM1 would like to remind you.
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ETA on start? sometime tomorrow? do we have specifics?
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ETA on start? sometime tomorrow? do we have specifics?
Yes. The game starts tomorrow (Monday, 9/17) at noon forum time. Role PMs will go out in the next 30 minutes. Scum will have from then until tomorrow for pre-game.
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Role PMs have been sent. Please reply to yours with confirmation that you have received and understand it.
We are going with 2 scum. The setup is up-to-date in the first post.
We are currently in pre-game. The scum have from now until game start tomorrow at noon to talk. I will unlock the thread at that time. Happy playing!
THREAD LOCKED
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As the ship Prosperity plunges onwards through the asteroid belt, the captain stands proudly on the bridge. He doesn't know why no-one thought to try this shortcut before. He'll be ahead of schedule, and a famed explorer to boot! But it was not to be...with a terrible crash of metal-on-metal, the Prosperity engines fall silent. Dead ahead lies a huge asteroid - and momentum is not on the captain's side. Alerted by the engine shutdown, the crew rushes to the bridge just as the ship slams into the asteroid. The lights go out instantly - shortly afterwards, so does the gravity. It takes an hour for emergency functions to be restored, and when the lights flicker back on, the crew is greeted with a gruesome sight - Captain Voltaire's body is drifting, lifeless, outside the window. Somebody - or something - threw him out the airlock in the chaos.
Day 1 has begun.
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time.
THREAD UNLOCKED (PM mod for spectator QT)
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Yay!
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Time for RVS ... IN SPACE!
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SFS! Good to see you back in action!
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SFS! Good to see you back in action!
Did you read ZM1? I blew it again.
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So if I understand page 1 correctly, we have 7 town, 2 scum, but some of our (our = town, for anyone parsing pronouns :)) investigative roles will receive investigation "answers" that, although 100% accurate, may not be entirely helpful. Am I correct in inferring that this will actually make it harder for town than normal?
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*apparently closing the parenthetical changes the emoticon. Sorry.
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Frisk is just so suspicious here. Declared himself the captain already, who does that?
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So if I understand page 1 correctly, we have 7 town, 2 scum, but some of our (our = town, for anyone parsing pronouns :)) investigative roles will receive investigation "answers" that, although 100% accurate, may not be entirely helpful. Am I correct in inferring that this will actually make it harder for town than normal?
Yes, the semi- rolecop seems strongest of town power roles. Although after the first flip, we'll get a functioning cop. If someone from the scum faction would be kind enough to tell us whether they are aliens or mutineers, that would help some though.
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Eevee no accidental breadcrumbs today! >:(
Anyways now that all systems are go how about some Vote: Archetype
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Eevee no accidental breadcrumbs today! >:(
Anyways now that all systems are go how about some Vote: Archetype
Alphabetical, huh?
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Eevee no accidental breadcrumbs today! >:(
Anyways now that all systems are go how about some Vote: Archetype
Alphabetical, huh?
It's as good as real random, assuming I decided to do it before the game. But nope just picked a name from the list. I know a little bit about how everyone in here plays except Archetype.
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SFS! Good to see you back in action!
Did you read ZM1? I blew it again.
I don't blame you for ZM1. I would have made the same mistake there. MIV on the other hand... it didn't make sense! Frisk couldn't have had a partner! Gar!
Sorry, I'm actually prone to slipping into MIV-regret-phase all the time, still.
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So if I understand page 1 correctly, we have 7 town, 2 scum, but some of our (our = town, for anyone parsing pronouns :)) investigative roles will receive investigation "answers" that, although 100% accurate, may not be entirely helpful. Am I correct in inferring that this will actually make it harder for town than normal?
Probably about the same. Some normal setups end up with only a Cop, so this one is automatically better than that. But it's not as good as having Cop + Doctor/Jailkeeper, I don't think.
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Idk how you guys keep past games straight. They literally pass out of my head as soon as I'm done playing them. Sometimes sooner.
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Eevee no accidental breadcrumbs today! >:(
Anyways now that all systems are go how about some Vote: Archetype
Apologies! I'm really glad it wasn't why I died. I try not to breadcrumb my power role in this game!
(kidding)
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I'm glad I'm under "L" then, it will take a while to get to me. :)
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Idk how you guys keep past games straight. They literally pass out of my head as soon as I'm done playing them. Sometimes sooner.
That's because you play so many. M4 was my first. And it still hurts.
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I'm glad I'm under "L" then, it will take a while to get to me. :)
Wait, what? do you mean under L as in "SwitchedFromStarcraft" starts with an unwritten and silent L? But...that's...not how things work...?
vote: SFS
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Vote Count 1.1
Archetype (1) - Insomniac
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - shraeye
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~24 hours from now).
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Idk how you guys keep past games straight. They literally pass out of my head as soon as I'm done playing them. Sometimes sooner.
I have a weirdly strong memory for my things that fall into my "obsessions" category. I can name you every episode of the TV show Lost, in order, for example.
Right now MIII is a bit of a blur because I died Night 1, and I don't have a good memory for who was who in MV. Other than that I'm pretty solid.
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I can name you every episode of the TV show Lost, in order, for example.
That seems like a pretty big waste of mental capacity. 20ish episodes x 5ish seasons x 2 or 3 words per title? I bet you get all the ladies with this bar trick!
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Vote: SFS because I can, and ZM1!
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I can name you every episode of the TV show Lost, in order, for example.
That seems like a pretty big waste of mental capacity. 20ish episodes x 5ish seasons x 2 or 3 words per title? I bet you get all the ladies with this bar trick!
I already have a lady, and she is less than impressed.
And it's 6 seasons: 20-23 episodes for the first 3 seasons, 13 for season 4, and 16-18 for seasons 5-6.
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Well consider me impressed, Robz. But tell your lady not to worry. I'm not that impressed.
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I would mock, but I have a nigh-encyclopedic knowledge of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Still, we seem to be meandering a bit from the topic at hand.
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I'm glad I'm under "L" then, it will take a while to get to me. :)
Wait, what? do you mean under L as in "SwitchedFromStarcraft" starts with an unwritten and silent L? But...that's...not how things work...?
vote: SFS
"L" as in loser. I'm 0-2, despite making it to the end of both games.
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I would mock, but I have a nigh-encyclopedic knowledge of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Still, we seem to be meandering a bit from the topic at hand.
I don't know, it seems your DS9 knowledge may help you out on this here ship.
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I would mock, but I have a nigh-encyclopedic knowledge of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Still, we seem to be meandering a bit from the topic at hand.
I don't know, it seems your DS9 knowledge may help you out on this here ship.
We're gonna need Julian Bashir.
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"L" as in loser. I'm 0-2, despite making it to the end of both games.
Good, then hopefully by lynching you, I'll help you get your first win.
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Archetype get in here.
Vote: shraeye
This post makes no sense.
"L" as in loser. I'm 0-2, despite making it to the end of both games.
Good, then hopefully by lynching you, I'll help you get your first win.
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Killing Robz is this new fad that better blow over.
Eevee and I were chatting about this problem over a game on isotropic. Eevee found it unfair that you are potentially establishing a meta that says that if you survive day 1 - you must be scum - thus guaranteeing a day 2 lynch.
@shraeye
I don't understand this alphabetical -> Letter L -> Loser -> Lynching you wins chain thats going on here. You think that SFS living results in his loss - and thus early lynching him is the secret to success? Is this like the Morgrim rule? Town whens whenever Morgrim is lynched?
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Also don't see how SfS initial L-comment could possibly be read as a scum slip.
Vote: shraeye
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Vote Count 1.2
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2) - shraeye, ashersky
shraeye (2) - Insomniac, Eevee
Not voting: Archetype, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~24 hours from now).
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Unvote.
Vote: shraeye until he explains his SFS vote better.
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man, f.DS does not get jokes. Yes voting SFS because he said his letter was L was a joke. He said that L was for loser since he's 0-2 despite surviving. Further joke: only by not surviving does he win.
It's meant to be as hilariously generalizing as the morgrim rule.
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man, f.DS does not get jokes. Yes voting SFS because he said his letter was L was a joke. He said that L was for loser since he's 0-2 despite surviving. Further joke: only by not surviving does he win.
It's meant to be as hilariously generalizing as the morgrim rule.
Good enough. Unvote.
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man, f.DS does not get jokes. Yes voting SFS because he said his letter was L was a joke. He said that L was for loser since he's 0-2 despite surviving. Further joke: only by not surviving does he win.
It's meant to be as hilariously generalizing as the morgrim rule.
I do not have feelings, emotions, or a sense of humour. I am here to find scum.
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man, f.DS does not get jokes. Yes voting SFS because he said his letter was L was a joke. He said that L was for loser since he's 0-2 despite surviving. Further joke: only by not surviving does he win.
It's meant to be as hilariously generalizing as the morgrim rule.
I do not have feelings, emotions, or a sense of humour. I am here to find scum.
Or you are an alien? SCUMSLIP!!!!
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@Insom
Then we're cool; I won't vote for you.
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Vote Count 1.2
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2) - shraeye, ashersky
shraeye (2) - Insomniac, Eevee
Not voting: Archetype, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~24 hours from now).
Nice catch, Voltaire. Caught it while I was writing to you.
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@Frisk and Jo and Robz
I see you guys active...get in here.
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Vote: SFS because I can, and ZM1!
I don't think I've ever had two votes on me before. You guys really do love me!!
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@Frisk and Jo and Robz
I see you guys active...get in here.
I'm here. Nothing to add. As I've stated many times before, I refuse to contribute for the sake of contribution. I don't have anything to comment on yet, so I haven't.
The other thread, however... oh jeez...
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Vote Count 1.2
SwitchedFromStarcraft (2) - shraeye, ashersky
shraeye (2) - Insomniac, Eevee
Not voting: Archetype, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~24 hours from now).
Nice catch, Voltaire. Caught it while I was writing to you.
For those unaware - I initially missed Eevee's vote, as it came while I was writing the next vote count. Thanks for paying attention, SfS. Vote counts will be frequent as this is a blitz game. Please feel free to post right here in the thread if you think a vote count is in error.
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@Frisk and Jo and Robz
I see you guys active...get in here.
VOTE: FRISK for lurking.
Can't vote Jo yet, he hasn't decided what mode he's playing in. Jo, I still vote for option #2, unless you renumbered them.
Can't vote Robz yet, cause Robz is just Pops being Pops Robz seeming scummy when town.
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ooh, what are Jo's modes? I don't know if I've seen the numbered list.
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Lurking? My last post is 18 minutes ago... come on.
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@Frisk and Jo and Robz
I see you guys active...get in here.
VOTE: FRISK for lurking.
Can't vote Jo yet, he hasn't decided what mode he's playing in. Jo, I still vote for option #2, unless you renumbered them.
Can't vote Robz yet, cause Robz is just Pops being Pops Robz seeming scummy when town.
How do you know Robz is town?
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I'm waiting for ashersky to tell us when RVS is over, I'm not entirely sure about the pacing of a blitz game.
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Vote Count 1.3
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - shraeye
shraeye (2) - Insomniac, Eevee
Captain_Frisk (1) - SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Robz888
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~23.5 hours from now).
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Oh, I forgot to say
Vote: jotheonah
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Oh, I forgot to say
Vote: jotheonah
Any reason?
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I'm waiting for ashersky to tell us when RVS is over, I'm not entirely sure about the pacing of a blitz game.
After Vote Count 1.3 usually. Which just came out, so feel free to get serious with your votes!
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Lurking? My last post is 18 minutes ago... come on.
Mmm, sensitive are we?
@Shraeye (man that's hard to type - I'll be shortening that to Shray) - check out http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4417.100
If that doesn't take you specifically to post #100, then you're looking for #100.
@ Insomniac - It was a joke. I've only played with Robz when he was town, but I called him out for seeming different in ZM1 than in M4. I was (wait for it) WRONG.
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Oh, I forgot to say
Vote: jotheonah
Any reason?
He seems to be spraying his vote around, though I don't know what that might mean. Shray, how much mafia have you played, IRL and/or forum?
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Lurking? My last post is 18 minutes ago... come on.
Mmm, sensitive are we?
@Shraeye (man that's hard to type - I'll be shortening that to Shray) - check out http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4417.100
If that doesn't take you specifically to post #100, then you're looking for #100.
@ Insomniac - It was a joke. I've only played with Robz when he was town, but I called him out for seeming different in ZM1 than in M4. I was (wait for it) WRONG.
To be fair I watched that game and he did seem damn scummy
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I'm sort of getting swamped trying to keep track of 3 RVSes. This is the one I'm phoning in. Also the one in which nothing real or serious has happened.
Re: Metas. Being in lots of games tends to bring out the not very serious player in me.
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I'm waiting for ashersky to tell us when RVS is over, I'm not entirely sure about the pacing of a blitz game.
After Vote Count 1.3 usually. Which just came out, so feel free to get serious with your votes!
OK, well in that case
UNVOTE
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I'm waiting for ashersky to tell us when RVS is over, I'm not entirely sure about the pacing of a blitz game.
After Vote Count 1.3 usually. Which just came out, so feel free to get serious with your votes!
OK, well in that case
UNVOTE
Just so you know, I made that up. Shraeye was giving me grief, so I gave him a response.
That said, it does seem like a good time to transition out of RVS into something more useful. Figuring out who's scummy on D1 in Blitz is tough, as ZM1 showed us. Have we even heard from everyone in this game yet? Where's Archetype?
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Vote: Archetype
Get in here
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I'm waiting for ashersky to tell us when RVS is over, I'm not entirely sure about the pacing of a blitz game.
After Vote Count 1.3 usually. Which just came out, so feel free to get serious with your votes!
OK, well in that case
UNVOTE
Just so you know, I made that up. Shraeye was giving me grief, so I gave him a response.
That said, it does seem like a good time to transition out of RVS into something more useful. Figuring out who's scummy on D1 in Blitz is tough, as ZM1 showed us. Have we even heard from everyone in this game yet? Where's Archetype?
Yeah, I knew that was a joke, but so was my vote on Frisk, so might as well remove it. However, my comment about Shray was serious. No reason for the Jo vote, but he left it parked there then went offline.
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unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
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Vote Count 1.4
shraeye (1) - Eevee
jotheonah (1) - shraeye
Archetype (1) - Insomniac
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~23 hours from now).
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unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating this game and MXII at the moment. I have to keep telling myself, this is NOT the game with PPS where I'm mad at Eevee. But I'd be hard-pressed to list exactly who is in each game...
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unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating this game and MXII at the moment. I have to keep telling myself, this is NOT the game with PPS where I'm mad at Eevee. But I'd be hard-pressed to list exactly who is in each game...
Robz thats really borderline for talking to much about the other game.
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unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating this game and MXII at the moment. I have to keep telling myself, this is NOT the game with PPS where I'm mad at Eevee. But I'd be hard-pressed to list exactly who is in each game...
Robz thats really borderline for talking to much about the other game.
... Hm. I guess. Sorry!
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@Robz -- the flavor helps differentiate--just remember, Space or Waffles?
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@Robz -- the flavor helps differentiate--just remember, Space or Waffles?
Good suggestion. I never confuse those things.
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
It's not! We're < 24 hours from deadline!
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IRony of ironys - the blitz game is the only one I have no reads in!
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
It's not! We're < 24 hours from deadline!
That makes a bigger FOS to Robz AND you then, you just keep posting fluff to appear like your not lurking. Suspicion list please!
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
It's not! We're < 24 hours from deadline!
Ha! +1
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unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating this game and MXII at the moment. I have to keep telling myself, this is NOT the game with PPS where I'm mad at Eevee. But I'd be hard-pressed to list exactly who is in each game...
It's also in conflict with #83, in which you say that with two exceptions, you're pretty solid on your memory of other games. Are you setting yourself up with an easy explanation for any mistakes you might make? To paraphrase Voltaire, if you're town understand I am just looking for smart play.
Robz thats really borderline for talking to much about the other game.
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
It's not! We're < 24 hours from deadline!
That makes a bigger FOS to Robz AND you then, you just keep posting fluff to appear like your not lurking. Suspicion list please!
Cool, you found a scumpair D1.
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SFS, what question can I answer for you? I have about 7 minutes before I have to go teach.
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Sorry all. My #113 is messed up. My added comment is the next to last paragraph. I'll repost it in a second.
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This is what #113 should look like:
unvote
I honestly don't even remember who I'm voting for.
I'm having a bit of trouble differentiating this game and MXII at the moment. I have to keep telling myself, this is NOT the game with PPS where I'm mad at Eevee. But I'd be hard-pressed to list exactly who is in each game...
Robz thats really borderline for talking to much about the other game.
It's also in conflict with #83, in which you say that with two exceptions, you're pretty solid on your memory of other games. Are you setting yourself up with an easy explanation for any mistakes you might make? To paraphrase Voltaire, if you're town understand I am just looking for smart play.
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who's up for a random lynch today? time stamp to sign-up list on the next vote count?
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SFS, what question can I answer for you? I have about 7 minutes before I have to go teach.
Mine in #118, somebody else's in #115.
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It's also in conflict with #83, in which you say that with two exceptions, you're pretty solid on your memory of other games. Are you setting yourself up with an easy explanation for any mistakes you might make? To paraphrase Voltaire, if you're town understand I am just looking for smart play.
I think this is SFS's contribution here from his prior quote mess - which I think I agree with.
Vote: RobZ - did you give orders to Archetype to lurk all day, or just to show up at a pre-arranged time?
PPE - ninjad by SFS himself
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FoS to Robz for contributing when he has nothing to add instead of throwing votes around, this is RVS!
It's not! We're < 24 hours from deadline!
That makes a bigger FOS to Robz AND you then, you just keep posting fluff to appear like your not lurking. Suspicion list please!
Cool, you found a scumpair D1.
Not at all I throw my vote and suspicion around quite freely on day 1.
who's up for a random lynch today? time stamp to sign-up list on the next vote count?
It's a terrible idea in every game its suggested in FOS for suggesting it.
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who's up for a random lynch today? time stamp to sign-up list on the next vote count?
Hey, I have to hold myself accountable too, and I promised in ZM1 I would lobby for a random vote on D1 of my next game. I agree it's an anti-town move, but would it be more anti-town or less in this setup, with the investigator roles so... weird?
Discuss.
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it is not terrible! and we've never actually tried it!
it gives a 2/9 chance, without fail.
what's the percent chance if we lynch based on reads, based on historic f.ds meta?
It happens to be 0/(however many games there have been of any kind of mafia ever)
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it is not terrible! and we've never actually tried it!
it gives a 2/9 chance, without fail.
what's the percent chance if we lynch based on reads, based on historic f.ds meta?
It happens to be 0/(however many games there have been of any kind of mafia ever)
We need ehunt or theorel to talk theory to you here.
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who's up for a random lynch today? time stamp to sign-up list on the next vote count?
It's a terrible idea in every game its suggested in FOS for suggesting it.
And Jo is smart enough to know that (at least in M4 and ZM1), the people who brought it up didn't get lynched for it. They may have gotten lynched, but it was later, and for other reasons.
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@Frisk (115)
No reason; a tie-in with the ashersky controls RVS joke I was working on.
@SFS (118)
A bit. I'm a reader, not a theory-guy. Theory arguments tend to confuse me, sometimes convince me, but most importantly are things I would never make. In Mafia IX in the clustercuss of hte deadline to day 1, axxle is trying to get me to commit to "what claim is an easier lie" or something like this in regards to the ehunt/insom debacle. And I have no idea, that's the theory side of stuff. I read posts, make decisions and vote. I often share how I made those decisions, sometimes forcefully. But i'm not ready to make any serious decisions yet [see above answer for what stage I'm at]
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Ok, V/LA for an hour or so while I teach.
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@Frisk (115)
No reason; a tie-in with the ashersky controls RVS joke I was working on.
@SFS (118)
A bit. I'm a reader, not a theory-guy. Theory arguments tend to confuse me, sometimes convince me, but most importantly are things I would never make. In Mafia IX in the clustercuss of hte deadline to day 1, axxle is trying to get me to commit to "what claim is an easier lie" or something like this in regards to the ehunt/insom debacle. And I have no idea, that's the theory side of stuff. I read posts, make decisions and vote. I often share how I made those decisions, sometimes forcefully. But i'm not ready to make any serious decisions yet [see above answer for what stage I'm at]
Thanks. It sounds a lot like my methodology. I read posts, make decisions, and vote. I'm not sure I've been right yet, though I vaguely recall one of my intermediate votes in M4 hitting scum, but it was after killing multiple fellow townies.
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Out for a few hours to run errands.
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who's up for a random lynch today? time stamp to sign-up list on the next vote count?
I support this! (Unless it ends up being me...)
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it is not terrible! and we've never actually tried it!
it gives a 2/9 chance, without fail.
what's the percent chance if we lynch based on reads, based on historic f.ds meta?
It happens to be 0/(however many games there have been of any kind of mafia ever)
I think i read somewhere that in general, day 1 lynches are slightly less effective than pure random, but if we agree to random lynching, then the wagons have no value.
I'm sure if theorel was here, he could simulate it up for us, but where's the fun in that?
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Look, scum would never argue for a random lynch - too risky. See, you learned something already! We'll learn even more by who gets on board with it and who doesn't.
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Look, scum would never argue for a random lynch - too risky. See, you learned something already! We'll learn even more by who gets on board with it and who doesn't.
Wug?
If it's bad for town -> scum wants it.
If it's good for town -> scum doesn't wan't it.
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I've expressed disliking to the idea earlier, in multiple games. I've been town in all these games. Yet now me saying I don't support it makes me scummy?
I don't think suggesting it (while knowing it makes one look scummy) buys you any town cred either if that's what you meant. Certainly not if you do it only to gain town cred.
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The scum wants anyone but them to die D1. There are lots of ways to accomplish this. One of the worst and most nonsensical ways to attempt it however, would be to advocate a random lynch and potentially put oneself in the crosshairs. You will never see scum do that. That's all I'm saying.
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I would like to see a random lynch candidate. I pledge to vote for this person. Why not? We NEVER choose scum.
Are you committed to waiting for the vote count, Jo?
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And I'm not doing it to get town cred, I'm doing it for a 2/9 chance of a day 1 scum lynch and because I have zero confidence in our ability to catch scum D1.
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I just thought the vote count because then there's zero chance of it being manipulated by the poster.
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Jo, Robz everyone on the random lynch idea stop being stupid.
2/9 chance of hitting scum...
3/9 chance of hitting a PR....
press the random button again and I will rally VERY hard to get you lynched, this is all aside from the fact that random lynch wagons are garbage for analysis, you just get RVS part 2 on day 2.
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The scum wants anyone but them to die D1. There are lots of ways to accomplish this. One of the worst and most nonsensical ways to attempt it however, would be to advocate a random lynch and potentially put oneself in the crosshairs. You will never see scum do that. That's all I'm saying.
The goal for scum isn't to get a townie lynched day 1. The goal for scum is to win the game. Random lynching would help them do that.
@ Robz and jot
You should at least clarify what you mean by "supporting a random lynch" before randomizing the target. You will only vote for this person today, no matter what happens?
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No. If we can get enough town on board for random lynch, then we'll all vote for it together and end the day.
If not, I'll vote for Insomniac, whose response to my suggestion is extremely hostile and scummy. :D
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Vote: jotheonah
I gave perfectly good reasons why random is bad in this setup and here he continues on pushing it.
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Heaven forbid someone continue to argue a contrary viewpoint after Insomniac has handed down the word of God on what's good and what's bad.
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If not, I'll vote for Insomniac, who is always extremely hostile
FTFY.
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I won't actually vote for Insom. I'm pretty certain he's town, even if he's being obnoxious.
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So, actually Vote: Eevee is where I stand if I can't get people to buy into the random thing. Any other takers though?
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Reasons to lynch Jo!
1) He has expressed a disinterest in this game because he is over commited with this and other games.
2) He has been rallying for a random lynch which is bad for town because
a) In this setup it's guaranteed more likely to hit a power role than scum
b) In ALL setups it's guaranteed more likely to hit town than scum
c) The wagon contains no information day 2, so your back to square one
d) In ZM1 even though the lynch wasn't random you did end up lynching the person Robz randomized and look at how that turned out
3) His response to my perfectly good reasons was to say he would OMGUS me
4) His content in this game is nil aside from trying to get a random lynch going.
PPE: Jo/CF, CF I am sorry if I always come off as extremely hostile in your books. Jo It wasn't even that it was that you completely ignored my points and said you would OMGUS me over it.
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Vote Count 1.5
shraeye (1) - Eevee
jotheonah (2) - shraeye, Insomniac
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~21.5 hours from now).
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Well - to be fair insomniac - the only hostile interaction i've had with you was in a game where you were dead on. Of course - my mega post that pointed out that you post a whole bunch of snide one liners was (I thought) a pretty reasonable argument.
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Oh - and insomniac - we don't actually have a 3/9 chance of hitting town PR. One of those PRs is actually negative utility.
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Oh - and insomniac - we don't actually have a 3/9 chance of hitting town PR. One of those PRs is actually negative utility.
This is true, but whether it is negative utility or not will be a matter of if the quack cop pushes his innocent result over a scum result. BECAUSE one of the cops is a quack cop I do not think that anyone will put much merit behind a "not scum" result thus virtually voiding the negative utility
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cut it out, Ins. I guarantee this is a town-town fight. I want to hear OTHER people's opinions on the random lynch, and/or on who they think is scummy.
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Unvote for now. We still haven't heard from Archetype
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My opinion on random lynch. It is a bad idea. It is possible that theoretically a random lynch will hit scum more often than f.DS's normal attempts, and we naturally want to lynch scum more often than possible, so I see short-term gains here.
But here's the kicker. As we talk and discuss and vote/unvote, scum have forced themselves to take positions on things, defend people and thoughts, attack people and thoughts. To randomize day 1 removes this context for the nightkills. Instead of saying, "oh man, who was worried about Robz (presumed killed town in my purely hypothetical example)? that person starts looking suspicious." We just say "dang, scum managed to hit town again, funny how they always do that...".
To randomize day 1 takes away our information for day two, and turns that into more of an RVS than it should be. Thus the slight bonus for a better day 1 lynch really hurts our crucial day 2 lynch. (especially crucial if we mislynch, which still will occur 7/9 times, and double-super-especially crucial if we lynch power roles 2/9 times [sorry, useless-cop, but you suck])
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To randomize day 1 takes away our information for day two, and turns that into more of an RVS than it should be. Thus the slight bonus for a better day 1 lynch really hurts our crucial day 2 lynch. (especially crucial if we mislynch, which still will occur 7/9 times, and double-super-especially crucial if we lynch power roles 2/9 times [sorry, useless-cop, but you suck])
For this reason, I agree that random lynching is a bad idea. We inform our decisions on following days based on what happened in the past. A random D1 means D2 becomes the new D1. How does that help town?
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Joth - are you seriously in favor of random voting?
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Oh - and insomniac - we don't actually have a 3/9 chance of hitting town PR. One of those PRs is actually negative utility.
The quack cop won't be useless. It's a named townie. If no one counterclaims, it's an innocent child. Not useless at all.
Really happy to see random lynch not gaining supporters.
I admit jot looks pretty towny despite all this, but Vote: Robz for supporting the random lynch. Shraeye vote was for lesser reasons than this.
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Oh - and insomniac - we don't actually have a 3/9 chance of hitting town PR. One of those PRs is actually negative utility.
The quack cop won't be useless. It's a named townie. If no one counterclaims, it's an innocent child. Not useless at all.
Really happy to see random lynch not gaining supporters.
I admit jot looks pretty towny despite all this, but Vote: Robz for supporting the random lynch. Shraeye vote was for lesser reasons than this.
So just to be clear -
Joth wants to random lynch - because he feels that scum won't want to do it because it risks lynching one of their own.
RobZ wants to random lynch.
Thus, RobZ must be scum, but Joth is town?
Random lynching feels like something that neither side should want to do. It has a higher chance of hitting scum (because the lynch isn't directed) - so bad for scum, but its worse for town than a normal mislynch if it hits town (because it can hit town PR as well as denies wagoning information - leading to a random day 2)
Obviously, I'm voting RobZ so I don't have a problem with you joining my wagon, but if you're opposed to random voting, Joth really seems like the scummy choice here.
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Okay, two points:
First, I repeat myself: Random lynch either skews the percentages towards a scum win or it doesn't. If it helps mafia, they (secretly or not) want it to happen. If it helps town, townies want it to happen. Obviously, none of us really now what exactly it means, so a player from the mafia faction might think it benefits the town and oppose it even when in reality it would help his team, or vice versa. But the point stands, random lynch can't simultaneously be bad for both factions. Or it can for fun-killing reasons, but surprisingly no one had mentioned them yet.
The other point is, there is other stuff happening than just people's stance on the random lynch issue. The reason I find joth towny despite his opinion on the random lynch is that he proposed it originally and really stuck his neck out to make it happen. I don't know, seems like too bold of a play for mafia in a situation where playing a less controversial style will likely have him cruise to tomorrow with little suspicion. I tend to always think mafia wants to play it safe, and actually just started to wonder if this is a bad assumption? However, Robz's position on the other hand is traditionally less suspected (he just agreed with another veteran townie), but it could easily have resulted in newer players seeing two respected mafia players thinking it's a good idea and it actually happening. And as I said, I personally think a random lynch would favor mafia, so Robz wanting it to happen seems scummy to me.
I got to say though, Robz has plenty of reasons for trying to appear scummier than usual day1 to perhaps live to see day 2 for once, so maybe that's what's happening. Unvote, Robz is carrying the burden of basically being a power role in every game just because he is himself and it isn't really fair.
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Vote Count 1.6
jotheonah (1) - shraeye
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Eevee, Insomniac, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~20 hours from now).
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I got to say though, Robz has plenty of reasons for trying to appear scummier than usual day1 to perhaps live to see day 2 for once, so maybe that's what's happening. Unvote, Robz is carrying the burden of basically being a power role in every game just because he is himself and it isn't really fair.
Bless you, Eevee! Finally someone recognizes the struggle of being me.
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Vote Count 1.6
jotheonah (1) - shraeye
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Eevee, Insomniac, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~20 hours from now).
This means we vote Captain_Frisk, right? He is the 3rd person to sign up for the game, and 3 is the last digit in the time stamp on the vote count.
Vote: Captain_Frisk
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God damnit Robz, why you so scummy in these blitz games
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Well - to be fair insomniac - the only hostile interaction i've had with you was in a game where you were dead on. Of course - my mega post that pointed out that you post a whole bunch of snide one liners was (I thought) a pretty reasonable argument.
So Insomniac plays like Pops?
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Well - to be fair insomniac - the only hostile interaction i've had with you was in a game where you were dead on. Of course - my mega post that pointed out that you post a whole bunch of snide one liners was (I thought) a pretty reasonable argument.
So Insomniac plays like Pops?
In M8 I did a bit, I was V/LA for a bit and thought I had valid contributions but everyone wanted to lynch me so I got cynical.
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@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
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Well - to be fair insomniac - the only hostile interaction i've had with you was in a game where you were dead on. Of course - my mega post that pointed out that you post a whole bunch of snide one liners was (I thought) a pretty reasonable argument.
So Insomniac plays like Pops?
In M8 I did a bit, I was V/LA for a bit and thought I had valid contributions but everyone wanted to lynch me so I got cynical.
Cynical I respect. I'm a cynic. Cynical I can forgive. Pissy even, I can forgive. I've gotten pissy in both previous games. Note to self: remember it's just a game.
I guess I bit on the word snide But (Snide + One liners) x Inscrutable = Pops (sometimes)
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@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
I will NOT participate in a random lynch if it comes down to it, I will sooner no lynch. I hate both of those things....a lot. Also Jo the day 1 lynch isn't just about lynching scum its about having information day 2. In M8 I stood against a lekkit lynch day 1 and we got no lynch, that was bad but man did we have information overload day 2, and thats amazing. Random absolutely 100% gets rid of any information we hope to gain because it gives mafia an excuse to lynch a townie. I stood up to this random lynch before frisk was selected, I do not know whether frisk is town aligned or not but I will not lynch him for a random reasons, if you see me voting for frisk at the end of the day it is because I think he is scum, do not allow this random nonsense to allow me to hide.
FoS to all who attempt to hide behind the veil of random lynching. (Man I hate my iPhone when I make long posts like that)
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I guess given a choice between information and dead scum I'll take dead scum but maybe that's just me.
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I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
Why even sign up for the game?
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You've also once again suggested random lynch to be done in a way that isn't really random. The whole thing makes even less sense if you allow everyone to see who the target is before they decide whether they want to commit to this "random" lynch or not.
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I'm just talking about Day 1!
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@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
Ok, I'll stick my neck out too, on the merits of this argument only (I have no idea yet whether Jo is town). Blitz is a better time to try it. Let's continue doing what we are doing, but if we get to some agreed upon time tomorrow, if we don't have a lynch, let's random vote.
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@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
Ok, I'll stick my neck out too, on the merits of this argument only (I have no idea yet whether Jo is town). Blitz is a better time to try it. Let's continue doing what we are doing, but if we get to some agreed upon time tomorrow, if we don't have a lynch, let's random vote.
Do you suggest a "random" vote on Frisk or perhaps a new target?
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You've also once again suggested random lynch to be done in a way that isn't really random. The whole thing makes even less sense if you allow everyone to see who the target is before they decide whether they want to commit to this "random" lynch or not.
Ok, I thought this went without saying but I will make it explicit: Frisk is NOT the lynch I'm advocating. I'm advocating this process:
1) A majority of players agrees to a random lynch and a method for determining it.
2) The method is activated.
3) The players in question vote for the chosen target.
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I guess given a choice between information and dead scum I'll take dead scum but maybe that's just me.
Thats not the choice here jo though nice attempt to redirect.
The choice is 100% chance of information or.
2/9 Chance of hitting scum with 2/9 chance of hitting a PR and a 7/9 chance of failing to do anything meaningful.
So I'm going to compare potential SHORT TERM gain of 2/9 or 22%, with a potential short term loss of the same, and a likely short term loss equal to f.DS previous history.
And compare that to the long term gain of 100% information and a chance at lynching scum anyways.
I will now reinstate my vote on joth.
Vote: Jotheonah
I know how you can know that you're town but how can you guarantee this is town on town unless your mafia in which case its not guaranteed at all.
Also before Eevee points out that joth wouldn't risk pulling this, he absolutely would, its a super quick game no big loss if you die, he's over commited to games AND he knew before hand that SFS claimed he would support a random lynch and that Robz would as well because Robz tried to go for it in ZM1.
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Joth, if your name had come up as the random lynch target, would you still argue for it? Would you self-vote in support? I think that is where getting everyone to agree to this idea breaks down. I mean, why would Frisk suppor the idea now, as town or scum?
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@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
Ok, I'll stick my neck out too, on the merits of this argument only (I have no idea yet whether Jo is town). Blitz is a better time to try it. Let's continue doing what we are doing, but if we get to some agreed upon time tomorrow, if we don't have a lynch, let's random vote.
Do you suggest a "random" vote on Frisk or perhaps a new target?
No, I'm NOT suggesting a target, in fact I intend to contribute heavily to the discussion of how we select. I agree with an earlier poster that selecting the target, then discussing the suitability of the method, or the target, is silly.
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You've also once again suggested random lynch to be done in a way that isn't really random. The whole thing makes even less sense if you allow everyone to see who the target is before they decide whether they want to commit to this "random" lynch or not.
Ok, I thought this went without saying but I will make it explicit: Frisk is NOT the lynch I'm advocating. I'm advocating this process:
1) A majority of players agrees to a random lynch and a method for determining it.
2) The method is activated.
3) The players in question vote for the chosen target.
Apologies, my bad then. That is indeed the only sensible way to do it. I'm still not on board though.
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I don't want this to be construed as a claim, so I will say that barring certain circumstances I would vote for myself if I came up.
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I don't want this to be construed as a claim, so I will say that barring certain circumstances I would vote for myself if I came up.
What the heck is that supposed to mean?
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Anyway, message received I guess. No random vote. Carry on with all the successful scumhunting you guys have been doing.
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If we spend all our time discussing the best way to select a random lynch target, is that worthwhile?
I still worry that we'll have nothing to go on D2 and that, to me, hurts town too much. Unless someone can explain how we could analyze the random results to our benefit on D2?
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I don't want this to be construed as a claim, so I will say that barring certain circumstances I would vote for myself if I came up.
What the heck is that supposed to mean?
Yeah, that makes no sense to me.
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This is ridiculous we are wasting some of the 24 hours arguing about the worst idea in f.DS history.
2/9 with 0 information
X with information.
I don't care what X is it's better, on day 2 you end up going well herp derp derp looks like we have RVS again...but now there is 2 less townies...Random vote again guys surely it will work better this time.
Additionally the points after my vote on joth were in regards to him telling me to cut it out and guaranteeing our fight was town on town.
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I don't want this to be construed as a claim, so I will say that barring certain circumstances I would vote for myself if I came up.
What the heck is that supposed to mean?
Yeah, that makes no sense to me.
He's saying that if he was willing to vote himself he is VT, the certain circumstances are scum / power role. If he is a VT he will vote for himself if he isn't he won't thats what he was saying.
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If I said "Yes, I would vote for myself" or "No, I wouldn't vote for myself" people might construe that as me claiming a PR. So I thought it better not to answer.
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what Insom said. As for Insom's other question, I think fishing is a delightful leisure activity but not very productive on a spaceship.
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I don't want this to be construed as a claim, so I will say that barring certain circumstances I would vote for myself if I came up.
What the heck is that supposed to mean?
Yeah, that makes no sense to me.
He's saying that if he was willing to vote himself he is VT, the certain circumstances are scum / power role. If he is a VT he will vote for himself if he isn't he won't thats what he was saying.
I don't actually believe he would vote for himself in either case.
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I'm not fishing, but I am voting for you, and will continue to as long as you keep wasting this towns time talking about a random lynch. That said thanks for helping me out of RVS and to voting for mafia.
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I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
No jo, it isn't. If I role a 10 sided die twice I'm expecting different results both times
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I think you're missing my point.
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I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I agree with you about random, but I don't like that after already designating a way to make a random determination, and then having that method supply us a candidate, you say, well it wasn't agreed to, have to try again, blah blah. I also don't like you saying that you would have voted for yourself. I don't believe you; I think that's a lie.
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Additionally I think Robz pointed it out in the leaderboard. Town and Mafia are nearly split 50/50 on game wins, I *think* town has an edge but I can't promise that. I will say that the one game we deviated from lynching day 1 (to no lynch) mafia won.
So if I wanted to ask a similar trap question to you I would say
"Doing the same thing over and expecting different results is insanity, and I mean look at M8 the only time DS didnt lynch and well hey town lost that so obviously deviating from standard f.DS meta is bad"
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Additionally I think Robz pointed it out in the leaderboard. Town and Mafia are nearly split 50/50 on game wins, I *think* town has an edge but I can't promise that. I will say that the one game we deviated from lynching day 1 (to no lynch) mafia won.
So if I wanted to ask a similar trap question to you I would say
"Doing the same thing over and expecting different results is insanity, and I mean look at M8 the only time DS didnt lynch and well hey town lost that so obviously deviating from standard f.DS meta is bad"
I certainly don't think we should No Lynch. Random Lynch is certainly better than No Lynch, and arguably better than Regular Lynch.
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I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I agree with you about random, but I don't like that after already designating a way to make a random determination, and then having that method supply us a candidate, you say, well it wasn't agreed to, have to try again, blah blah. I also don't like you saying that you would have voted for yourself. I don't believe you; I think that's a lie.
Why would you think that? You've seen me vote for myself on multiple occasions.
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I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I agree with you about random, but I don't like that after already designating a way to make a random determination, and then having that method supply us a candidate, you say, well it wasn't agreed to, have to try again, blah blah. I also don't like you saying that you would have voted for yourself. I don't believe you; I think that's a lie.
Why would you think that? You've seen me vote for myself on multiple occasions.
At least one of those times, you were scum (MIII). And I would have thought you'd learned your lesson since MIV.
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Ok guys so I rolled a d10 twice and lets play with this hypothetical setup.
1. Alice
2. Bob
3. Carmen
4. Dave
5. Ed
6. Flynn
7. George
8. Hubert
9. Ig
I am literally rolling a d10 twice.
10 reroll
6 - Flynn is scum
9 - So is Ig
10 reroll
7 George is a cop
8 so is Hubert
Town rolls a d10
8 lynches hubert - well thats pretty bad
Mafia night kills (for simplicity sake 1)
New roster
1. Bob
2. Carmen
3. Dave
4. Ed
5. Flynn
6. George
7. Ig
Day 2 numbers are at 7 and 1 cop 1 vt dead
town having nothing better to do rolls a d8
6 - They lynch george awesome the OTHER cop
Mafia night kills 1 again new roster.
1. Carmen
2. Dave
3. Ed
4. Flynn
5. Ig
rolls a d6 because hey still no information.
3 lynch ed.
Game over town.
Shall I simulate more games? I will grant that the initial 2 roles are bad but they are as likely as hitting mafia and less likely than hitting a VT
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To clarify: who is continuing to run this discussion into the ground and who has dropped it?
Also, whose diatribe is pushing a wagon and whose isn't?
Just some fun discussion questions for the town.
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To clarify: who is continuing to run this discussion into the ground and who has dropped it?
Also, whose diatribe is pushing a wagon and whose isn't?
Just some fun discussion questions for the town.
You're pushing a wagon too you just don't know who it's on yet, I have a case.
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PPE; The phone rang as I started this, so it's not as timely as I would have liked.
Anyway, message received I guess. No random vote. Carry on with all the successful scumhunting you guys have been doing.
So now I don't know what you want, or are thinking. I was supporting the idea in general. Now you change your mind? This is wishy washy Jo from M4, who was town, but unhelpful and distracting. That's disappointing. Coupled with your #120, where you state "Being in lots of games tends to bring out the not very serious player in me." I'm left with
VOTE: Jotheonah
Distractions are not what we need. If you are town, why would you start this again? By "this", I'm not talking about the random vote thing, you had my qualified support on that. I'm talking "never mind, carry on".
2nd PPE: phone rang again, and I'm not checking latest posts.
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Vote Count 1.7
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1) - Robz888
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky, Eevee
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~19 hours from now).
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SFS, surely you agree the Random thing only works with town support/ consensus? And it's pretty clear that isn't emerging. So, yeah, with 19 hours remaining, I'd like to move on to something else.
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So here is the thing: doesn't it seem like all this Joth talk sort of has to mean he's town? I mean it is just too crazy to pull off as mafia, right?
And so lynching him means we lynch pretty-likely town, and that seems counter-productive.
That said, I could be convinced he has some meta-plan working here, but it seems unlikely from what he's posted about how much time he's putting into all the games.
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He absolutely COULD be town, but he also could be pushing for a random lynch as an alibi. If he hits himself or a scum buddy he won't go for it, but if he hits a townie (the likely case) he absolutely would and that gives him plausible deniability because well fate decided! Jo was in ZM1 where Robz tried it (and didn't get lynched for suggesting it). After the game SFS said he would be on board with it.
Jo is a clever guy knowing that Robz and SFS would support the random lynch he decided to go for it because 2 veterans (jo/robz) and another good player who doesn't give himself much credit (SFS) will support it (as they have). Which might be enough to persuade a few people to side with him, allowing him to get away scot free, and if it fails well Robz didn't get lynched for it in ZM1.
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(http://www.radioclashblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Picard+is+an+animal+_e4b98fb66e9de49556dda7ddf270cc3e.jpg)
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Ok Jo - who are your suspects then? You and insomniac are allegedly town.
Personally - I am agreeing with you town on town crime theory. Scum would therefore be off to the side - hoping that insomniac was able to push the wagon. Someone like.. Robz
Where I archetype?
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Where has Arch been? Maybe a prod for him?
Eevee?
@insom, good points, too. I recall the random idea from ZM1 getting far less traction and discussion than this time.
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Ok Jo - who are your suspects then? You and insomniac are allegedly town.
Personally - I am agreeing with you town on town crime theory. Scum would therefore be off to the side - hoping that insomniac was able to push the wagon. Someone like.. Robz
Where I archetype?
Shut up, Frisk. You just somehow knew the random choice would be you, and pre-emptively voted me before I had a chance to follow through and vote the random choice.
...
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Scum could be anyone else. I don't think Robz's support of random is scummy, except for the "if it doesn't land on me" thing.
Eevee maybe. But TBH if I had a strong suspect I wouldn't have suggested random in the first place.
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SFS, surely you agree the Random thing only works with town support/ consensus? And it's pretty clear that isn't emerging. So, yeah, with 19 hours remaining, I'd like to move on to something else.
I can't believe I'm going to type this word, but:
(Sigh)
I do agree that it would only happen with support (town and/or mafia) and consensus. I don't know how to characterize the state of the discussion at the time you bailed out on the idea, so I have no opinion on "pretty clear that isn't emerging". It's a subversive idea, you have to know that consensus wouldn't be reached in an hour.
But it is pretty clear we are moving on to something else, so it looks like you'll get your wish. The cynic in me is saying you'll probably get lynched, you're probably town, and I get to vote for the wrong guy again. The ultra cynic in me is saying that you may be mafia, adopting this approach specifically because I pushed so many days to have you lynched in M4, all the while calling you unlynchable (cause you almost were) only to find that you were town. You may be a fellow townie here, but what you have contributed over the past two hours was a mixed bag of confusion and distraction. That's why my vote is where it is.
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You may be a fellow townie here, but what you have contributed over the past two hours was a mixed bag of confusion and distraction. That's why my vote is where it is.
Ok, but. Recognize that a big part of the distraction was how Insomniac chose to react to my suggestion.
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Going out for dinner, be back in a few hours.
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Sfs - can you see town from that fence you are sitting on?
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
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Me?
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Me?
In my eyes you have managed to play exactly like scum wants to play day 1. You've been reasonably active and present, but I have no real read on you and you could vote just about anyone and I wouldn't be surprised. Scum has been seen to play that game day1 in these forums a lot, and we rarely lynch anyone for it.
I am not accusing you because I have no case. As I said, that list was just my feelings / impressions because I was asked to contribute and I didn't have anything else to say.
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I definitely want to hear from archetype soon 6 hours into the game...18 hours remaining/
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Me?
In my eyes you have managed to play exactly like scum wants to play day 1. You've been reasonably active and present, but I have no real read on you and you could vote just about anyone and I wouldn't be surprised. Scum has been seen to play that game day1 in these forums a lot, and we rarely lynch anyone for it.
I am not accusing you because I have no case. As I said, that list was just my feelings / impressions because I was asked to contribute and I didn't have anything else to say.
Note to future scumself: Propose random lynching and / or be a vocal jerk.
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Where has Arch been? Maybe a prod for him?
I will not prod Archetype yet, as he could very well have been asleep ever since the game started depending on his time zone. If he has not posted by the time I go to bed tonight, I will send him a friendly prod. Blitz is so fast normal prod rules can't apply - nobody will be modkilled over it, but I do expect everyone to post at least once per day.
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Me?
In my eyes you have managed to play exactly like scum wants to play day 1. You've been reasonably active and present, but I have no real read on you and you could vote just about anyone and I wouldn't be surprised. Scum has been seen to play that game day1 in these forums a lot, and we rarely lynch anyone for it.
I am not accusing you because I have no case. As I said, that list was just my feelings / impressions because I was asked to contribute and I didn't have anything else to say.
Note to future scumself: Propose random lynching and / or be a vocal jerk.
:(
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Me?
In my eyes you have managed to play exactly like scum wants to play day 1. You've been reasonably active and present, but I have no real read on you and you could vote just about anyone and I wouldn't be surprised. Scum has been seen to play that game day1 in these forums a lot, and we rarely lynch anyone for it.
I am not accusing you because I have no case. As I said, that list was just my feelings / impressions because I was asked to contribute and I didn't have anything else to say.
Note to future scumself: Propose random lynching and / or be a vocal jerk.
I don't think jot's behavior here has been due to his alignment (and I don't think he has been a jerk either. Sure, maybe a little.. controversial? But jerk sounds like a stong word.)
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He just seems upset because he really thinks he is right about this and no one believes him.
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My vote on Jo stays and now switches from a random vote to a serious vote. I know that you aren't pushing for random anymore as virtually (hey, robz, what up? also archetype???) everyone disagrees. I know that Insomniac is the one who kept the discussion going and I know that I'm about to do that as well.
But here's my feeling. You put up a possibility (initial suggestion of Random-vote) that I vehemently disagree with. I did not read Insomniac's initial reaction as hostile "It's a terrible idea in every game its suggested in FOS for suggesting it." I read this as Insom saying, "that is a supremely bad idea. Please sit down and think about why it's bad." Then me and others (can't remember names in this fast thread, but I want to give credit to eevee, and Insom) explained why it was a terrible idea. Then you kept pushing about saying that a small chance of dead scum was better than trying to gain any information. Those weren't your exact words, but I had cleeeearly pointed out in post #178 that towns only power is information and day1 actions+votes are how we get it.
What makes me feel worse and worse about your alignment is how often you keep saying "hey, I'm town, don't worry about me being scum because scum would never try to do something as crazy as this."
The scum wants anyone but them to die D1. There are lots of ways to accomplish this. One of the worst and most nonsensical ways to attempt it however, would be to advocate a random lynch and potentially put oneself in the crosshairs. You will never see scum do that. That's all I'm saying.
cut it out, Ins. I guarantee this is a town-town fightI want to hear OTHER people's opinions on the random lynch, and/or on who they think is scummy.
I already said let's talk about something else! I'm also town, but whatever. Another Day 1 mislynch will help my case the next time I try to fight for a random lynch. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I really don't see how you fail to realize that it's not about day 1. Remember in M IX where a failed lynch on ehunt lead to us realizing that both O and Insom were scum. That's the sort of thing that town needs to succeed in day 2, 3, etc. Information is king, that's why it's so hard for 7 townies to find the 2 mafia. Because we have 0 info and the mafia know who all is town. I'm fighting just as hard as I can for info as I am for lynching correctly. And I'm unwilling to give up one (info) for a slightly increased chance at the other (from an empirically observed 0/18 to a guaranteed 2/9). 2 outta 9 sucks, that is most definitely something not worth trading all information for.
I am a major proponent of lynching you right now. I'd be willing to be in that position regardless of Insomniac's stance. Post #190 needs serious explanation, dude.
@Robz, yes BUT there is clearly not a town consensus on random lynch.
@Frisk, I absolutely do support it. We've played 1 Blitz game, 10 regular games, 2 Role Madness games, 4 bastard games, and a Murder Mystery Game on this forum for a total of 18 games. In those 18 games, we have found scum on Day 1 exactly zero times. This tells me that we are very bad at catching scum D1. A dice roll has a 2/9 chance. That is just so much better than we have trying to scumhunt. As for power roles, we often lynch them D1 anyway. Or else D1 discussion is sufficient to out them and they get NK'd Night 1.
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
I come from a place of having watched town screw up a lot of Day 1's, and I am dead serious when I say let's throw in the towel and leave it up to fate.
Is this your response to the fact that day 1 random makes day 2 RVS? That it's blitz mafia?? That. is. a. terrible. reason. I also love that at the end of that paragraph you make the jump from 0/18 observed successes to anything not random-voted has 0% chance of success. That's the type of reasoning that gets the students in my prob/stat class Cs and lower.
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Here's my suspicion list, I liked Eevees format
joth>eevee>SFS>Robz>Frisk>ashersky>shraeye>Insomniac
Archetype isn't on this list because I can't read what isn't written
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Archetype isn't on this list because I can't read what isn't written
This is precisely why he should be at the front of your list. Excluding someone for not having content to analyze rewards bad behavior.
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Here's my suspicion list, I liked Eevees format
joth>eevee>SFS>Robz>Frisk>ashersky>shraeye>Insomniac
Archetype isn't on this list because I can't read what isn't written
Wait, I'm more town to you than yourself?
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Here's my suspicion list, I liked Eevees format
joth>eevee>SFS>Robz>Frisk>ashersky>shraeye>Insomniac
Archetype isn't on this list because I can't read what isn't written
Wait, I'm more town to you than yourself?
Haha nice, especially from someone who is so terrible at day 1!
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Perhaps Shareye also has a 0% chance of flipping town?
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I've had a lot to do, and wow! So much has happened!
The Insomniac vs jotheonah seems to be a Town vs Town battle. I'm more suspicious of those who are throwing more gas on the fire by trying to make them argue more.
Captain_Frisk/Eevee/Insomniac: I can't blame you guys for wanting to vote for me. I should be paying more attention to this game. I'll try to stay active, but I'll be unable to participate every day until about this time. I should be able to consistently talk after then.
I'm not sure if I approve of the random lynch or not. Insomniac's facts are true, but jotheonah has really risked his neck by debating the Random Lynch.
This really is blitz Mafia! All this arguing is just the debate of logic and hasn't really gotten us anywhere.
I don't have a scum read on anyone yet, will have to read some more, but I'm suspicious of those trying to get jotheonah and Insomniac riled up with each other.
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@shraeye. It is not bad math to suggest that 18 observed cases of something failing to happen makes it unlikely to happen. It is good science. And I stand by it.
Here is the case I am making: F.DS day one meta produces significantly worse-than-random lynch odds.
There are reasons for this. One is that scum tend to be smarter than we give them credit for, and a townie is more likely to slip up (or self-destruct) day 1 than scum is. Another is that we tend to believe PR claims, so when we do finger scum they just claim and we move on to a VT who knows it wouldn't be protown to lie - and then gets lynched.
I'm sure there are other factors. I don't know the exact reason. But I think it is self-evident that the above bolded statement is true. It's a pattern of failure and we can't move on from it until we acknowledge that fact. You and Insom seem to want to ignore it and hope it goes away. That's not good enough for me.
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I have never disagreed with your bolded statement. f.DS has a worse than random track record on day 1 lynches. Yet we still win as town around 50% of the time because we are able to use the information gleaned from the day one antics. With a random day 1 lynch, we gain no info on voting patterns, and only slightly increase chance of hitting scum.
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Really glad to see archetype here!
Joth, I think you are blinded with our terrible day 1 record and fail to see the big picture. Scum will fakeclaim to avoid the lynch. Town's win condition isn't lynching scum day 1. Example: In major arcana ehunt was a doctor and got lynched. His death fingered both Insomniac and O to us (both scum). That's just something a random lynch will never accomplish.
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Really glad to see archetype here!
Joth, I think you are blinded with our terrible day 1 record and fail to see the big picture. Scum will fakeclaim to avoid the lynch. Town's win condition isn't lynching scum day 1. Example: In major arcana ehunt was a doctor and got lynched. His death fingered both Insomniac and O to us (both scum). That's just something a random lynch will never accomplish.
Yup, that's one thing I pointed out in 249. A perfect example of how "failed" lynches help. And one of the reasons I will never support a random lynch.
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Sfs - can you see town from that fence you are sitting on?
Dude, can you see my vote from wherever you are sitting? Have you read the thread?
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
And which way does the continuum run here?
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Here's my suspicion list, I liked Eevees format
joth>eevee>SFS>Robz>Frisk>ashersky>shraeye>Insomniac
Archetype isn't on this list because I can't read what isn't written
Same question.
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
And which way does the continuum run here?
> = greater than
so archetype is most suspicious insom the least.
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
And which way does the continuum run here?
Thanks, I know the mathematical symbols. But I don't assume. And it COULD have been in order of towniness, in which case I would also have some info. Just sayin'.
> = greater than
so archetype is most suspicious insom the least.
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S**t. Not again. Will repost.
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
And which way does the continuum run here?
> = greater than
so archetype is most suspicious insom the least.
Thanks, I know the mathematical symbols. But I don't assume. And it COULD have been in order of towniness, in which case I would also have some info. Just sayin'.
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Eevee is here?
I would probably want to lynch some of the less active guys if I had to decide now (hello Archetype!). I'll actually make a list cause why not:
Archetype>Frisk>Robz>ashersky>shraeye>jotheonah>SfS>Insomniac.
Obviously mostly very random because we don't have that much information, but it's something.
And which way does the continuum run here?
> = greater than
so archetype is most suspicious insom the least.
Thanks, I know the mathematical symbols. But I don't assume. And it COULD have been in order of towniness, in which case I would also have some info. Just sayin'.
And at the risk of being overly anal, I'd like the original posters of such lists to be on record as to what they meant, not any (well-intentioned) interpreters.
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Well I'm leaving for a little bit. Will be back on tomorrow.
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Pre or post deadline?
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Pre, of course
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My list was actually willingness to lynch, from most to least. Archetype moved down a couple of spots just by appearing here and proving he knows the game has started.
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Ah, let me clarify. My list was a list of who I'm most suspicious of; but it can probably be better read as a list of lynches I'm ok with. Most ok with Jotheonah, least ok with Insomniac. I'll remake the list early tomorrow morning.
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Sfs - can you see town from that fence you are sitting on?
Dude, can you see my vote from wherever you are sitting? Have you read the thread?
As far as I can see - you are voting Jonah. Then you posted this:
SFS, surely you agree the Random thing only works with town support/ consensus? And it's pretty clear that isn't emerging. So, yeah, with 19 hours remaining, I'd like to move on to something else.
I can't believe I'm going to type this word, but:
(Sigh)
I do agree that it would only happen with support (town and/or mafia) and consensus. I don't know how to characterize the state of the discussion at the time you bailed out on the idea, so I have no opinion on "pretty clear that isn't emerging". It's a subversive idea, you have to know that consensus wouldn't be reached in an hour.
But it is pretty clear we are moving on to something else, so it looks like you'll get your wish. The cynic in me is saying you'll probably get lynched, you're probably town, and I get to vote for the wrong guy again. The ultra cynic in me is saying that you may be mafia, adopting this approach specifically because I pushed so many days to have you lynched in M4, all the while calling you unlynchable (cause you almost were) only to find that you were town. You may be a fellow townie here, but what you have contributed over the past two hours was a mixed bag of confusion and distraction. That's why my vote is where it is.
That reads like someone who wants to lynch Jonah - but doesn't want to appear to be strongly in favor of the lynch when he flips town. Hence - sitting on the fence / hedging / playing both sides whatever you want to call it.
At least Insomniac seems to really believe that Jonah is scum.
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Sfs - can you see town from that fence you are sitting on?
Dude, can you see my vote from wherever you are sitting? Have you read the thread?
As far as I can see - you are voting Jonah. Then you posted this:
SFS, surely you agree the Random thing only works with town support/ consensus? And it's pretty clear that isn't emerging. So, yeah, with 19 hours remaining, I'd like to move on to something else.
I can't believe I'm going to type this word, but:
(Sigh)
I do agree that it would only happen with support (town and/or mafia) and consensus. I don't know how to characterize the state of the discussion at the time you bailed out on the idea, so I have no opinion on "pretty clear that isn't emerging". It's a subversive idea, you have to know that consensus wouldn't be reached in an hour.
But it is pretty clear we are moving on to something else, so it looks like you'll get your wish. The cynic in me is saying you'll probably get lynched, you're probably town, and I get to vote for the wrong guy again. The ultra cynic in me is saying that you may be mafia, adopting this approach specifically because I pushed so many days to have you lynched in M4, all the while calling you unlynchable (cause you almost were) only to find that you were town. You may be a fellow townie here, but what you have contributed over the past two hours was a mixed bag of confusion and distraction. That's why my vote is where it is.
That reads like someone who wants to lynch Jonah - but doesn't want to appear to be strongly in favor of the lynch when he flips town. Hence - sitting on the fence / hedging / playing both sides whatever you want to call it.
At least Insomniac seems to really believe that Jonah is scum.
I see what you are saying. Let me clarify. I want to lynch Jo because he's playing the way he is, which is anti-town. Don't know for sure whether he's town, or scum, but his behavior (the wishy-washy, change-my-mind, never-mind, move-along stuff, not the arguing of Random Lynch) see-saw that recognize from M4. To be fair, he was town there, which is why I point out he may be town here, but in my opinion his actions are anti-town. Now, I can't say how anti-town it is, for lack of experience. I'm told my self-disclosure of my 1-shot cop result on D2 of M4 was anti-town. If that's true, this is worse. It's also probably more anti-town than getting to L-1 and full claiming as VT if you are really VT.
My prediction: his next step is claim that the changes of gears was a ploy to see who said what about it - to draw out "discussion".
So if I don't have any better options (and I don't right now, but I have someone I'm watching because of something I caught), Jo is my vote, and I'm definitely ok with him being lynched, even if he is town. See, no fence.
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I'm going to go get my Peyton fix. If the Falcons don't put me to sleep, I'll be back before I turn in.
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No espn for me.... I'm super jealous.
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I'm starting to have a bad feeling about SfS. Being one of those guys who somehow have the ability to become almost obvtown already on day 1 is pretty cool. But the thing is, when they don't give you that town vibe..
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft to further explore this theory.
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I want SFS to explain how manning tas thrown 3 picks in 8 passes
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I met Peyton once. Nice guy. VERY tall in person.
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I want SFS to explain how manning tas thrown 3 picks in 8 passes
Don't know, but I was watching it on DVR with a 30 minute buffer so I could fast forward through the commercials, and gave up after he threw 2 picks in 3 passes. Got enough Manning for tonight. Thanks for the update.
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I'm starting to have a bad feeling about SfS. Being one of those guys who somehow have the ability to become almost obvtown already on day 1 is pretty cool. But the thing is, when they don't give you that town vibe..
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft to further explore this theory.
Let me know if I can be of any assistance with that.
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I'm starting to have a bad feeling about SfS. Being one of those guys who somehow have the ability to become almost obvtown already on day 1 is pretty cool. But the thing is, when they don't give you that town vibe..
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft to further explore this theory.
Let me know if I can be of any assistance with that.
First reaction: jokingly ignore the suspicion. You already have!
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@ Frisk - I wrote you a book in #274, atomizing a non-existent fence, and all you can do is a) be jealous of my cable system and b) ask me to analyze football? Dude, I can't even analyze Galz.
Seriously though, did my response help?
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I'm starting to have a bad feeling about SfS. Being one of those guys who somehow have the ability to become almost obvtown already on day 1 is pretty cool. But the thing is, when they don't give you that town vibe..
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft to further explore this theory.
Let me know if I can be of any assistance with that.
First reaction: jokingly ignore the suspicion. You already have!
;)
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I'm starting to have a bad feeling about SfS. Being one of those guys who somehow have the ability to become almost obvtown already on day 1 is pretty cool. But the thing is, when they don't give you that town vibe..
Vote: SwitchedFromStarcraft to further explore this theory.
Let me know if I can be of any assistance with that.
First reaction: jokingly ignore the suspicion. You already have!
On second thought, I don't want to miss an opportunity here. (sound of soapbox being dragged across the floor. When in camera view, the box reads "Resident Semanticist". SFS steps onto the box)
First of all, in your original post, you didn't use the word suspicion. You said "bad feeling". You could have a bad feeling for a lot of reasons relating to me being town. The phrae "bad feeling" could be a signal to your partner. Second, the sentence fragment that starts "but the thing is" never directly makes an assertion, though it vaguely says "I don't get a town vibe from SFS" in a way that you can get away from later if need be. Third, you seem to equate a vote with a theory. To me it's just a vote (with no reasons supplied, though there is no requirement for reasons. Until you get asked for them. Which someone may do.)
(SFS steps down off box)
The comment offering assistance was not a joke. (The emoticon was). I'm always happy to answer questions, as my record in M4 (and to a much lesser extent ZM1) shows. You asked none.
I have one for you though. How did I go from next to last on your suspicion list (in #240) to an actual vote?
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Vote Count 1.8
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1) - Robz888
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~14 hours from now).
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hey, Frisk is back now. There was apparently a 4th Broncos turnover in the 1st quarter.
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Vote Count 1.8
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Captain_Frisk (1) - Robz888
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
Not voting: Archetype, ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~14 hours from now).
Vote count error. EV has voted for SFS.
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Did you ninja me again?
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I'm refreshing from iPad. Watching dexter with the wife.
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Hmmm, EV is now conveniently offline (or showing offline anyway).
I'm going to bed. Have fun all.
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I'm refreshing from iPad. Watching dexter with the wife.
I'm glad that I know Dexter is a TV show.
Wait, you get showtime, but not ESPN? That's weird.
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Did you ninja me again?
I never changed this vote count. If you notice any errors, please post again. I currently have Eevee's vote for you recorded.
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Wanted to get a post in before going to sleep tonight. I should be able to post once in the AM before the deadline, as well.
I don't think I'm comfortable putting Joth at L-1 quite yet. There have been good arguments for the lynch, but I think many of us get a feeling he could actually be town, and lynching town never feels good. Anti-town behavior is unhelpful though.
I can see Eevee's point on SFS. But then, I get a scummier vibe from Eevee than in previous games. Can't quite put my finger on why, though. Robz I don't feel is so scummy, which, if meta holds, means he's mafia. So there's that.
But really, for now, vote: Frisk. His fence comment to SFS was good for getting a response; his not responding or even acknowledging SFS's response was not. Note, I don't really think Frisk will get lynch today, so this is more of a prod vote for useful Frisk posts, which are always helpful.
PPE (what's that mean, anyway?): I see Frisk has the Dexter/Wife excuse running, which holds with previous games. Still, say something this-game-related!
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I must go to bed. I want my vote on Vote: Shraeye. I think he's been mischaracterizing what I've been saying more than a little.
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PPE means pre post edit.
I can't really argue with you on the semantics, english isn't my first language. Making any sense here is hard enough. I do not hide my online status (why should I, always town remember), although I often have the tab open when I'm playing and won't really be online even though the forum thinks I am. Unless the forum is smarter than I think anyways, but I digress.
I did give reasons for my "bad feeling" which grew strong enough to warrant a vote. In our last blitz game, you looked super town. I mean, it was almost ridiculous, you didn't actually DO anything but everyone just sort of "knew" you were town pretty early on. You were saying things like "lord knows what I would do if I was scum" and it was actually believable. You don't necessarily PLAY different here (I mean, I don't remember anything special or weird from you last game either), but you sound different. You are not being the obvious townie you were in our last game, which I really think is noteworthy. Day 1, we aren't going to get help from power roles, but we still need to lynch someone. While this isn't much, I don't really have much on anyone else either. Jot seems towny, Insomniac seems towny, Robz maybe slightly scummy, Frisk neutral, archetype neutral (the scummy kind of neutral though, I think he should maybe have given me some sort of a town read already), shraeye is a complete mystery and then there is you. You were close to the bottom in my last list, but everyone was so close to eachother because of my lack of reads it hardly matters.
So, until I get a stronger scum read on someone else or you start appearing townier in my eyes, I'm going to keep my vote on you because my gut says so. I hope others who have played with SfS consider this too.
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PPE means pre post edit.
I can't really argue with you on the semantics, english isn't my first language. Making any sense here is hard enough. I do not hide my online status (why should I, always town remember), although I often have the tab open when I'm playing and won't really be online even though the forum thinks I am. Unless the forum is smarter than I think anyways, but I digress.
I did give reasons for my "bad feeling" which grew strong enough to warrant a vote. In our last blitz game, you looked super town. I mean, it was almost ridiculous, you didn't actually DO anything but everyone just sort of "knew" you were town pretty early on. You were saying things like "lord knows what I would do if I was scum" and it was actually believable. You don't necessarily PLAY different here (I mean, I don't remember anything special or weird from you last game either), but you sound different. You are not being the obvious townie you were in our last game, which I really think is noteworthy. Day 1, we aren't going to get help from power roles, but we still need to lynch someone. While this isn't much, I don't really have much on anyone else either. Jot seems towny, Insomniac seems towny, Robz maybe slightly scummy, Frisk neutral, archetype neutral (the scummy kind of neutral though, I think he should maybe have given me some sort of a town read already), shraeye is a complete mystery and then there is you. You were close to the bottom in my last list, but everyone was so close to eachother because of my lack of reads it hardly matters.
So, until I get a stronger scum read on someone else or you start appearing townier in my eyes, I'm going to keep my vote on you because my gut says so. I hope others who have played with SfS consider this too.
Fair enough. I particularly respect the bolded part; sometimes gut is all we have to go on.
Also, thanks for the comment on your online status. Mine is sort of the inverse, I often stay logged on even when I'm not, for convenience sake. But I never mask the fact that I'm online by turning off the little green square.
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Did you ninja me again?
I never changed this vote count. If you notice any errors, please post again. I currently have Eevee's vote for you recorded.
I guess I just looked at it wrong. I did look at it very glancingly.
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Really am off to bed now.
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I can understand your vote on me joth, but unfortunately not in a good way. Insom is the most vocal about your case since he's posted the most. I didn't have much of a chance to post until that argument had died down, and then I summed up my argument as cogently as I could. That post was #249 for anyone who wants a refresher on why my vote is still on Joth. Despite the fact that I was agreeing with Insom's position, I didn't feel like yelling "amen sista!" at any point. Maybe it's because his posts are more scattered throughout different pages, but not all of his arguments came through crystal clear. The reason I think you are voting for me is that I have put together a nice argument that you have no response to other than to keep trying to deflect it. So let me make a 3 point post.
As for me mischaracterizing what you said, I disagree with that. I'd like you to tell me anything in particular that I claimed you said, but you did not in fact say. That's the first thing I'd like to see before I give any credence to your towniness.
Second thing: I especially dislike how when I asked you to explain your position in post #190 you instead say this in #256
@shraeye. It is not bad math to suggest that 18 observed cases of something failing to happen makes it unlikely to happen. It is good science. And I stand by it.
Here is the case I am making: F.DS day one meta produces significantly worse-than-random lynch odds.
There are reasons for this. One is that scum tend to be smarter than we give them credit for, and a townie is more likely to slip up (or self-destruct) day 1 than scum is. Another is that we tend to believe PR claims, so when we do finger scum they just claim and we move on to a VT who knows it wouldn't be protown to lie - and then gets lynched.
I'm sure there are other factors. I don't know the exact reason. But I think it is self-evident that the above bolded statement is true. It's a pattern of failure and we can't move on from it until we acknowledge that fact. You and Insom seem to want to ignore it and hope it goes away. That's not good enough for me.
which in no way answers my question. Additionally in that post, you try to paint me as "willfully ignoring" the fact that at f.DS day one meta produces significantly worse-than-random lynching odds. I actually said this was possible way back in post #178 (bolded below), and went on to explain that my position was that DESPITE the short-term day-one gains, we will lose more with random lynch (italicized below).
My opinion on random lynch. It is a bad idea. It is possible that theoretically a random lynch will hit scum more often than f.DS's normal attempts, and we naturally want to lynch scum more often than possible, so I see short-term gains here.
But here's the kicker. As we talk and discuss and vote/unvote, scum have forced themselves to take positions on things, defend people and thoughts, attack people and thoughts. To randomize day 1 removes this context for the nightkills. Instead of saying, "oh man, who was worried about Robz (presumed killed town in my purely hypothetical example)? that person starts looking suspicious." We just say "dang, scum managed to hit town again, funny how they always do that...".
To randomize day 1 takes away our information for day two, and turns that into more of an RVS than it should be. Thus the slight bonus for a better day 1 lynch really hurts our crucial day 2 lynch. (especially crucial if we mislynch, which still will occur 7/9 times, and double-super-especially crucial if we lynch power roles 2/9 times [sorry, useless-cop, but you suck])
so by mischaracterizing my statements, you set up a straw-man argument that you can easily defend against. Let me just be crystal clear that your post #256 does not answer any of my arguments.
My third point:
In post #256, you didn't answer my call to explain post #190. And you still haven't. Explain what you meant by the third paragraph of post #190. In detail.
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How do I come off scummy?
Because I was trying to end the Insom vs Jot argument? I didnt want that to continue because it just wastes time, which is something we are short on.
I dont know everyone's playstyles too well, but I'll go with this:
Vote: C_F
He was one of the ones who was egging on the argument.
Thats probably going to be my last post for the day, and I'll be back mid day tommorow. So dont accuse me of lurking :P
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Vote Count 1.9
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Robz888 (1) - Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (3) - Robz888, ashersky, Archetype
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
shraeye (1) - jotheonah
Not voting: no-one
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is tomorrow, September 18, at noon forum time (~12 hours from now).
Your mod is going to bed. I will be around for the entire morning/deadline tomorrow.
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Us being this scattered is not good, town hates nolynches after all. This has been a productive day, but we all seem to find different guys scummy (which is an improvement from everyone finding the same townie scummy I guess). I really hope we can find some agreement tomorrow! Jotheonah has the most votes on him now, and personally I don't like him as a target. I think most of the case against him is that people think he was being a bit obnoxious.
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I can understand your vote on me joth, but unfortunately not in a good way. Insom is the most vocal about your case since he's posted the most. I didn't have much of a chance to post until that argument had died down, and then I summed up my argument as cogently as I could. That post was #249 for anyone who wants a refresher on why my vote is still on Joth. Despite the fact that I was agreeing with Insom's position, I didn't feel like yelling "amen sista!" at any point. Maybe it's because his posts are more scattered throughout different pages, but not all of his arguments came through crystal clear. The reason I think you are voting for me is that I have put together a nice argument that you have no response to other than to keep trying to deflect it. So let me make a 3 point post.
As for me mischaracterizing what you said, I disagree with that. I'd like you to tell me anything in particular that I claimed you said, but you did not in fact say. That's the first thing I'd like to see before I give any credence to your towniness.
Second thing: I especially dislike how when I asked you to explain your position in post #190 you instead say this in #256
@shraeye. It is not bad math to suggest that 18 observed cases of something failing to happen makes it unlikely to happen. It is good science. And I stand by it.
Here is the case I am making: F.DS day one meta produces significantly worse-than-random lynch odds.
There are reasons for this. One is that scum tend to be smarter than we give them credit for, and a townie is more likely to slip up (or self-destruct) day 1 than scum is. Another is that we tend to believe PR claims, so when we do finger scum they just claim and we move on to a VT who knows it wouldn't be protown to lie - and then gets lynched.
I'm sure there are other factors. I don't know the exact reason. But I think it is self-evident that the above bolded statement is true. It's a pattern of failure and we can't move on from it until we acknowledge that fact. You and Insom seem to want to ignore it and hope it goes away. That's not good enough for me.
which in no way answers my question. Additionally in that post, you try to paint me as "willfully ignoring" the fact that at f.DS day one meta produces significantly worse-than-random lynching odds. I actually said this was possible way back in post #178 (bolded below), and went on to explain that my position was that DESPITE the short-term day-one gains, we will lose more with random lynch (italicized below).
My opinion on random lynch. It is a bad idea. It is possible that theoretically a random lynch will hit scum more often than f.DS's normal attempts, and we naturally want to lynch scum more often than possible, so I see short-term gains here.
But here's the kicker. As we talk and discuss and vote/unvote, scum have forced themselves to take positions on things, defend people and thoughts, attack people and thoughts. To randomize day 1 removes this context for the nightkills. Instead of saying, "oh man, who was worried about Robz (presumed killed town in my purely hypothetical example)? that person starts looking suspicious." We just say "dang, scum managed to hit town again, funny how they always do that...".
To randomize day 1 takes away our information for day two, and turns that into more of an RVS than it should be. Thus the slight bonus for a better day 1 lynch really hurts our crucial day 2 lynch. (especially crucial if we mislynch, which still will occur 7/9 times, and double-super-especially crucial if we lynch power roles 2/9 times [sorry, useless-cop, but you suck])
so by mischaracterizing my statements, you set up a straw-man argument that you can easily defend against. Let me just be crystal clear that your post #256 does not answer any of my arguments.
My third point:
In post #256, you didn't answer my call to explain post #190. And you still haven't. Explain what you meant by the third paragraph of post #190. In detail.
How you are mischaracterizing me (Insomniac is also doing this): You're presenting me as hammering the case for a random lynch, when in actuality I suggested it as a possibility, made a case for it, and said explicitly that e should only do it if a majority of the town agrees. I answered criticisms as best I could. When it became clear that the town was not in support of it, I withdrew the suggestion and urged us to move on. You and insom continued to bring it up, and to try to make into evidence that I am scum, a case that makes no sense to me. As I've said before, and despite Insom's imaginative theories, random lynch is a very stupid D1 scum strategy.
Notice I chose my words carefully. I didn't say you'd said anything false, just that you're implying my position to be much more demanding that it is. All I have ever done is made a suggestion and left it up for discussion for the town, clarifying when necessary.
The information question: We ARE discussing. We are interacting. Information is coming out, wagons are forming. Yes, if everyone had lined up like little ducks and agreed to the random lynch, that wouldn't have happened. But I don't think anyone thought that would happen that way. So your argument is invalid - we're getting as much D1 information as ever from this random lynch debacle. We also would have gotten information once we picked our target and they tried to talk us into a different target. Lots of information.
On my not answering the information question: Since it became obvious that the town didn't back random lynch, I have been trying to get us off a subject I no longer find useful to the town. That might be why I declined to write another long post about random lynch theory.
Where we should be looking now: Unlike my support of a random lynch, which was never going to be tied to a particular person, Robz actually followed through and voted for a randomly selected person. Robz also said he wouldn't vote for himself if he were randomly selected and called me a liar for saying I would. So I'm a bit suspicious of Robz. I'm also suspicious of shraeye for pushing my wagon very hard on very thin grounds. I don't get the CF wagon at all.
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Us being this scattered is not good, town hates nolynches after all. This has been a productive day, but we all seem to find different guys scummy (which is an improvement from everyone finding the same townie scummy I guess). I really hope we can find some agreement tomorrow! Jotheonah has the most votes on him now, and personally I don't like him as a target. I think most of the case against him is that people think he was being a bit obnoxious.
Wasn't it you who forgot this in ZM1, that no lynch only happens if we vote it? Majority vote holder gets lynched at deadline.
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Us being this scattered is not good, town hates nolynches after all. This has been a productive day, but we all seem to find different guys scummy (which is an improvement from everyone finding the same townie scummy I guess). I really hope we can find some agreement tomorrow! Jotheonah has the most votes on him now, and personally I don't like him as a target. I think most of the case against him is that people think he was being a bit obnoxious.
Wasn't it you who forgot this in ZM1, that no lynch only happens if we vote it? Majority vote holder gets lynched at deadline.
That was Robz, I was the one who corrected him there.. So yeah, sorry about that, tired. Luckily my point still stands though, because I don't like a Jot-lynch.
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This is the paragraph shraeye wants me to explain in detail:
Finally, in the response to the Day 2 RVS argument against random lynch. That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this, basically. Let's keep doing what we do until close to deadline, sure. But, in the absence of a genuinely scummy character at day's end, let's do random instead and actually have a chance of succeeding.
So, ok. Random lynch has never been tried here. Blitz is a logical place to try it, because it is fast and we have limited time. One problem with random lynch is that it limits discussion; here, our discussion is severely limited anyway by the quick deadline. Also if it turns out to be a huge failure, hey, at least the game is over quickly.
I also suggest, in this paragraph, that we reserve the random lynch as a last-minute option if we're still not happy with the wagons close to deadline. This, too, would be in the interest of maximizing Day 1 information generation while still maintaining the benefit of a random lynch; to wit, a legitimate 2/9 chance of a scum lynch which the mafia has no opportunity to manipulate.
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I don't get the CF wagon at all.
CF is the person chosen by the random system YOU suggested!!! It's CF or no random, man. We can't just go back after random picks somebody and re-evaluated it. I keep getting this crazy feeling that Frisk is your scumbuddy, the random got him, and now you are trying to either get a new random or no random at all in order to save him. Like, I know this is a totally crazy idea, I'm not dumb, I know it's ludicrous to expect random to give us mafia and more ludicrous to get the pair out of it, but... I don't see how you can not get the Frisk wagon. It's the wagon that resulted from YOUR suggestion, which I thought was a good one (to try out random in Blitz mafia).
And well, maybe I'm wrong. You WOULD vote for yourself if you promised to do so, I suppose. But look, it's anti-town to vote for yourself if you're town, plain and simple. So I would never actually do it, no matter what had been promised. And I suspect you wouldn't do it here, either, even in the scenario you outlined. WHich is why I think you're possibly a liar there.
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Ok, Robz. I get why you're voting for CF. But other people?
Given that random has been resoundingly rejected, your continuing to cling to it kind of makes it look like you're scum who wants to lynch a townie and not be held accountable for it.
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But really, for now, vote: Frisk. His fence comment to SFS was good for getting a response; his not responding or even acknowledging SFS's response was not. Note, I don't really think Frisk will get lynch today, so this is more of a prod vote for useful Frisk posts, which are always helpful.
PPE (what's that mean, anyway?): I see Frisk has the Dexter/Wife excuse running, which holds with previous games. Still, say something this-game-related!
Quoting myself to answer Joth. I expect I could wake up in the a.m. and see useful insight from CF and change my vote then. But for now, this. Too much fluff from Frisk.
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I explained why.
He encouraged your and Insos debate on randomness. I'm assuming he did that to draw attention from himself bcause he was the choice for the random vote.
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hmmm... I'm intrigued that people are independently coming to Frisk for different reasons. That always seems better to me than when everyone piles on for one thing.
The problem is, none of the reasons are strong enough for me to feel good about a Frisk lynch. On the other hand, since the other big wagon is on me, the relevant question might just be "Would I rather lynch Frisk than me?" and the answer is of course, yes.
Still, not comfortable putting him at L-1.
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We have 2 people at L-2. Scum could quickhammer either of us at this point. I doubt they will, but it's worth noting.
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Well i'm not going to hammer frisk, when there still is the top part of my ok with lynching chain that I muh rather want to deal with. This chain is now
joth>SFS>eevee>archetype>Robz>frisk>ashersky>insomniac>shraeye
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I say "scum could quickhammer"
shraeye replies "I'm not going to hammer Frisk"
really bad scumslip?
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We have 2 people at L-2. Scum could quickhammer either of us at this point. I doubt they will, but it's worth noting.
I doubt they can. I'm going to look long and hard at the list and *gasp* start thinking about scumteams on day 1. Robz already guessed an obvious combination which would leave scum "unable to quickhammer" right now.
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Well i'm not going to hammer frisk, when there still is the top part of my ok with lynching chain that I muh rather want to deal with. This chain is now
joth>SFS>eevee>archetype>Robz>frisk>ashersky>insomniac>shraeye
You realized your pm is more concrete than how you feel about me?
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I say "scum could quickhammer"
shraeye replies "I'm not going to hammer Frisk"
really bad scumslip?
Nah, just really bad timing. This was in response to your hesitance to put frisk at L-1. I never read "warning more posts" before reclicking the post key.
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I'm feeling better and better about this shraeye vote nonetheless. Ins is reminding me you've already had one weird slip today. This makes two.
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You realized your pm is more concrete than how you feel about me?
Hhahaha! actually my mind must have been drifting as I posted it, because the bottom still is asher>shraeye>insomniac. As I was typing, I recall putting the last >/< sign backwards and said, oh that looks silly. But I didn't realize that it was the names I flipped.
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I'm feeling better and better about this shraeye vote nonetheless. Ins is reminding me you've already had one weird slip today. This makes two.
That wasn't a weird slip, because it wasn't a slip. Insom is the lynch I am most not ok with, I meant that.
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I'm feeling better and better about this shraeye vote nonetheless. Ins is reminding me you've already had one weird slip today. This makes two.
That wasn't a weird slip, because it wasn't a slip. Insom is the lynch I am most not ok with, I meant that.
Thank you for that clarification. Unvote.
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We have 2 people at L-2. Scum could quickhammer either of us at this point. I doubt they will, but it's worth noting.
I doubt they can. I'm going to look long and hard at the list and *gasp* start thinking about scumteams on day 1. Robz already guessed an obvious combination which would leave scum "unable to quickhammer" right now.
And I'm not going to tunnel. There is a small enough set of possibilities for pairs of 2 players, that I'm literally going to check all possibilities.
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hmm, this seems less informative than it did when i set out. basically there's a lot of symmetry mathematically. Joth has 3 on wagon and is voting for one wagon member; frisk has 3 on and is voting for one of them.
Due to this, everybody (except eevee who could hammer with any partner) has 4 scumteam possibilities that could hammer (this includes possibilities where one scumpartner is voting for the other even though they're at 3), and 4 that can't (barring voting for themselves). So there's not much to be gained. I admit that this was a bit too early for me to march off to find scumteams.
For completeness (since i saidthey'd be coming) here are the results.
these teams can hammer: arch/ash, arch/eevee, arch/frisk, arch/robz, ash/eevee, ash/frisk, ash/robz, eev/frisk, eev/insom, eev/jo, eev/robz, eev/shray, eev/sfs, frisk/robz, insom/jo, insom/shray, insom/sfs, jo/shray, jo/sfs, shray/sfs
These teams can't hammer: arch/insom, arch/jo, arch/shray, arch/sfs, ash/insom, ash/jo, ash/shray, ash/sfs, frisk/insom, frisk/jo, frisk/shray, frisk/sfs, insom/robz, jo/robz, robz/shray, robz/sfs
This research shows no objective results unless we are willing to submit our own biases. I didn't want to add my biases to this post (obviously, as I'm leaving even myself in for completeness) because there are people who I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't convince to believe me. I had hoped that this would get more unbiased results.
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Shraeye, I don't think your analysis is particularly useful in preventing a quickhammer (it would look so ridiculously scummy it is not going to happen anyways), however it might be a valuable thing to look back after we get our first (two) flips. So, even though you didn't find much yet, good job!
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heading to bed. don't count on me participating before the deadline, although i will try to wake up in time to catch up. almost 8 hours so i should just barely make it.
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@ Ash - Looks like you are the only one online right now. Can you tell me how to put multiple quotes (of other posts) into one post? I've never tried, and need to now.
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You realized your pm is more concrete than how you feel about me?
Hhahaha! actually my mind must have been drifting as I posted it, because the bottom still is asher>shraeye>insomniac. As I was typing, I recall putting the last >/< sign backwards and said, oh that looks silly. But I didn't realize that it was the names I flipped.
@Shray - can you tell me why you've now twice said you'd rather lynch yourself than Insomniac?
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Okay, I probably won't be able to post again before the deadline, so, looking at everyone's latest stance, and given it is D1, I figure I am just about okay with either of the likely results (CF or Joth).
In case I don't get to return for D2...I think folks need to rethink Insom depending on joth's flip, Eevee reads slightly off from his usual chipper self, and don't give SFS his auto-pass just because he's SFS. I am not saying any of them are scum, just that those would seem to warrant looks on D2. Pretty neutral on everyone else.
PPE @ SFS: if they are all recent, you can scroll down below the text input box and hit the quote button for it. If they are older, the way I have done it (and there must be an easier way) is to open up a separate tab, quote from there like I am doing a new post, and then copy/paste into my original post. Maybe if you are using the "all" view, they are all available for quoting?
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@SFS
You can add multiple quotes from recent posts once you start composing, but if you need them from other pages, what I typically do is open open the quote button in a new tab, and then copy paste.
As for the rest of you - you guys are mad because I chatted about football with SFS last night instead ignoring the thread like RobZ?
Here's my thoughts on the situation, now that I'm back at computer - where I can compose a proper post.
In MX - where I was scum with Jorbles, we were super psyched about Day 1. RobZ did something scummy (tunnelled in on Morgrim), and then another townie jumped all over him for it. It's town on town crime, and they got themselves all fired up. It wasn't hard to push it over on RobZ. I jumped on the wagon once it looked like there was enough steam to push it over.
In this game, jonah has done something potentially scummy (proposed random voting). Insomniac has jumped all over it. SFS piled on to bring it to 3. This to me feels like the same type of thing, scum excited about town on town hatred. Now maybe Jonah is aggressive enough to pull this Random voting stuff because he knows that too aggressive to do as scum, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM... but I suspect that like Jorbles and I did, if we lynch Jonah or Insomanic, we'll find the other dead tomorrow morning - because scum don't want to leave confirmed townies lying around.
My suspicion list (most to least)
shraeye - I suspect someone on the jonah wagon to be scum, and she (?) is most likely scum on that wagon due to process of elimination.
eevee - SFS hunting is like Morgrim hunting perhaps?
RobZ - case (by day 1 standards) made previously
SFS - 3rd vote on the wagon is scummiest according to standard tells, but I have a hard time believing it in my heart.
Archetype - Can not believe we're going to let someone get by with 3 posts on day 1.
Insomniac - most likely town - but his posts always kindof raise my hackles (@eevee - when I mentioned someone being a jerk - I was referring to insomniac play - not jonah)
Ashersky - null read
jonah - most likely town - but frustrating to waste the day on discussion of random voting again.
I asked SFS about his fence sitting because it looked like he suspected jonah was town, but continued to vote for him, which I didn't like. I don't really like his response, but it doesn't feel out of line with SFS's prior play (I didn't follow ZM1, but I was with SFS until the end of MIV)
Vote: shraeye - because clearly nobody likes my RobZ theory, and of course I should be voting my #1 suspect.
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Where any of the following quotes are partials, I've added ellipses. Bolded statements were added by me.
UNVOTE
VOTE: Shray
.....
I'm a reader, not a theory-guy. Theory arguments tend to confuse me, sometimes convince me, but most importantly are things I would never make. In Mafia IX in the clustercuss of hte deadline to day 1, axxle is trying to get me to commit to "what claim is an easier lie" or something like this in regards to the ehunt/insom debacle. And I have no idea, that's the theory side of stuff. I read posts, make decisions and vote. I often share how I made those decisions, sometimes forcefully.....
...That's the type of reasoning that gets the students in my prob/stat class Cs and lower.
hmm, this seems less informative than it did when i set out. basically there's a lot of symmetry mathematically. Joth has 3 on wagon and is voting for one wagon member; frisk has 3 on and is voting for one of them.
Due to this, everybody (except eevee who could hammer with any partner) has 4 scumteam possibilities that could hammer (this includes possibilities where one scumpartner is voting for the other even though they're at 3), and 4 that can't (barring voting for themselves). So there's not much to be gained. I admit that this was a bit too early for me to march off to find scumteams.
For completeness (since i saidthey'd be coming) here are the results.
these teams can hammer: arch/ash, arch/eevee, arch/frisk, arch/robz, ash/eevee, ash/frisk, ash/robz, eev/frisk, eev/insom, eev/jo, eev/robz, eev/shray, eev/sfs, frisk/robz, insom/jo, insom/shray, insom/sfs, jo/shray, jo/sfs, shray/sfs
These teams can't hammer: arch/insom, arch/jo, arch/shray, arch/sfs, ash/insom, ash/jo, ash/shray, ash/sfs, frisk/insom, frisk/jo, frisk/shray, frisk/sfs, insom/robz, jo/robz, robz/shray, robz/sfs
This research shows no objective results unless we are willing to submit our own biases. I didn't want to add my biases to this post (obviously, as I'm leaving even myself in for completeness) because there are people who I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't convince to believe me. I had hoped that this would get more unbiased results.
Here's my suspicion list, I liked Eevees format
joth>eevee>SFS>Robz>Frisk>ashersky>shraeye>Insomniac...
Well i'm not going to hammer frisk, when there still is the top part of my ok with lynching chain that I muh rather want to deal with. This chain is now
joth>SFS>eevee>archetype>Robz>frisk>ashersky>insomniac>shraeye
Hhahaha! actually my mind must have been drifting as I posted it, because the bottom still is asher>shraeye>insomniac. As I was typing, I recall putting the last >/< sign backwards and said, oh that looks silly. But I didn't realize that it was the names I flipped.
So what I see here is a guy who says he's not a theory guy but teaches probability and stats (that's kind of like me saying I'm not a data guy but I'm an analytical chemist), and makes an interesting theory-type post, referencing mathematical symmetry. He says (on two different occasions) that Insomniac is more town than he is (if Shray is town I can't see how that is even theoretically possible, no pun intended), using one of those statements to explain what may have been a slip (I know, pronouns don't mean anything). He teaches math-related subjects, but says he recalls mixing up mathematical symbols. And the overall vibe I seems forced.
I recognize that I am changing my vote from Jo to the person Jo is voting for. This doesn't mean I am any less happy with Jo methods in this game. But as I stated yesterday, I've had my eye on someone, and that someone is Shray. Robz or Pops said in M4, don't lynch the people that irk you, lynch scum, and Shray is my best read right now for scum.
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Hmm, Frisk changed his while I was typing. Interesting.
Going for a swim. Be back before the deadline.
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Vote Count 1.10
jotheonah (2) - shraeye, Insomniac
Captain_Frisk (3) - Robz888, ashersky, Archetype
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
shraeye (2) - Captain_Frisk, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting: jotheonah
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is today, September 18, at noon forum time (~3.5 hours from now)
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Unvote.. Frisk responded as requested.
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Voltaire - If we get to the deadline and two or more people have the same vote total, what happens?
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I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
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I'm going with Vote: Captain Frisk.
I have a rather big misgiving about the shraeye wagon that I can't talk about. Suffice it to say that for the same reason I think Insom. is town, shraeye's unwillingness to lynch insom ALSO reads town and while any step in this process could be scum fakery, I'm inclined to trust my instincts.
So, since I have reasons to clear everyone I otherwise find scummy and it's too late to create a fresh wagon, I revert to my original randomly selected target, who has also set off other people's scumdars and, as Eevee has pointed out, is playing exactly as innocuously as Day 1 scum ought.
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and, as Eevee has pointed out, is playing exactly as innocuously as Day 1 scum ought.
Do you mean playing like town instead of distracting everyone with random voting?
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I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
NO NO NO NO, go back and read the very very very 1st line (IN RED) under VOTING/PLAYER DEATH on page 1.
How does this myth continue to be perpetuated? It's BLITZ you guys, read the rules. Some of them have changed!!!
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Voltaire - If we get to the deadline and two or more people have the same vote total, what happens?
I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
From the rules:
1. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
In the case of a tie, the first person to reach the highest total is lynched. If you want to no-lynch, you must vote for "No Lynch," and it must either reach a majority, have the highest vote total, or win the tiebreaker.
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@Voltaire - Doh!
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BTW, this makes all the "L-1" discussions a little less persuasive.
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and, as Eevee has pointed out, is playing exactly as innocuously as Day 1 scum ought.
Do you mean playing like town instead of distracting everyone with random voting?
Yes, actually. And you've fingered exactly why we never catch scum D1.
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Voltaire - If we get to the deadline and two or more people have the same vote total, what happens?
I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
From the rules:
1. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
In the case of a tie, the first person to reach the highest total is lynched. If you want to no-lynch, you must vote for "No Lynch," and it must either reach a majority, have the highest vote total, or win the tiebreaker.
Voltaire: Was the part that is now in bold in the rules and I missed it?
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The part about ties, I mean.
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Voltaire - If we get to the deadline and two or more people have the same vote total, what happens?
I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
From the rules:
1. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
In the case of a tie, the first person to reach the highest total is lynched. If you want to no-lynch, you must vote for "No Lynch," and it must either reach a majority, have the highest vote total, or win the tiebreaker.
Voltaire: Was the part that is now in bold in the rules and I missed it?
No. It is how this situation was handled in ZM1 (though it never came up). I will add it to the rules so it is clear going forward.
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
That is bad. All three of us cannot be scum. Ergo, you should not be ok with any of us dying.
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
That is bad. All three of us cannot be scum. Ergo, you should not be ok with any of us dying.
WHAT?
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
That is bad. All three of us cannot be scum. Ergo, you should not be ok with any of us dying.
I don't want all of you dead but I see valid reasons for each of you to be lynched.
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
That is bad. All three of us cannot be scum. Ergo, you should not be ok with any of us dying.
This Jo quote I will not be putting into my profile.
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Hmm I am ok with a CF, Jo or Shraeye lynch right now :s
That is bad. All three of us cannot be scum. Ergo, you should not be ok with any of us dying.
WHAT?
The English language failed me here because there are two ways to read "you should not be ok with any of us dying." What I meant was "You should not be equally ok with any of the three of us dying." Which, now that I think of it, is in direct opposition to my supporting a random lynch. Ok, whatever, you can support all three major wagons and pretend that constitutes an opinion.
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Essentially the case on Jo is mine so I'm biased to think its good.
Shraeye has made me nervous by putting me as lower suspicion than himself twice.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been too involved. Fanned the flames a bit of a town on town argument.
Of the three I am the least on with the cf lynch. But he is the most likely target
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Vote Count 1.11
jotheonah (2) - shraeye, Insomniac
Captain_Frisk (3) - Robz888, Archetype, jotheonah
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
shraeye (2) - Captain_Frisk, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting: ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is today, September 18, at noon forum time (~62 minutes from now)
Please note Vote Count 1.10 mis-stated the amount of time remaining. Deadline remains noon forum time (noon EST).
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Voltaire - If we get to the deadline and two or more people have the same vote total, what happens?
I can answer that - if nobody hits 5 - nobody is lynched.... regardless of other vote totals.
From the rules:
1. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
In the case of a tie, the first person to reach the highest total is lynched. If you want to no-lynch, you must vote for "No Lynch," and it must either reach a majority, have the highest vote total, or win the tiebreaker.
Voltaire: Was the part that is now in bold in the rules and I missed it?
No. It is how this situation was handled in ZM1 (though it never came up). I will add it to the rules so it is clear going forward.
Is that methodology more manipulatable by players than some other method? (I don't have another method to suggest, because I want to get this in quickly). Consider the following (maybe worst case) hypothetical scenario:
Yesterday (in real life yesterday), player X got to 4 votes. The game proceeds to today, with other suspects accruing votes. We get to the deadline, with no clear consensus, and three people have two votes each, including player X. So X gets lynched, based primarily on the events of yesterday.
As town, this will make me much more hesitant to vote AT ALL, except at the deadline, robbing me of the information-gathering component of my only weapon, my vote. It also robs all other players of the ability to analyze my vote, if I'm not voting. And in my analysis, people who don't vote until the deadline look scummy.
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Is that methodology more manipulatable by players than some other method? (I don't have another method to suggest, because I want to get this in quickly). Consider the following (maybe worst case) hypothetical scenario:
Yesterday (in real life yesterday), player X got to 4 votes. The game proceeds to today, with other suspects accruing votes. We get to the deadline, with no clear consensus, and three people have two votes each, including player X. So X gets lynched, based primarily on the events of yesterday.
As town, this will make me much more hesitant to vote AT ALL, except at the deadline, robbing me of the information-gathering component of my only weapon, my vote. It also robs all other players of the ability to analyze my vote, if I'm not voting. And in my analysis, people who don't vote until the deadline look scummy.
These are the rules that were used in ZM1, and they are the rules we are using in ZM2. It is up to the players to decide how they wish to play in this setting. Personally, I think the rules are working just fine.
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...
Of the three I am the least on with the cf lynch. But he is the most likely target.
Unless Robz or Ash or Jo move their vote. If Jo moves his vote now, it may result in his own lynch. Am I wrong in seeing this as a problem?
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VOLTAIRE- Thanks for the quick response. I may be making mountains out of molehills.
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Well golly. 62 minutes, eh? I can explain the "im not good at theory" vs. hey check out this mathematical symmetry.
I'm not good at mafia theory. Which hopefully has nothing to do with symmetry in lists of combinations. That's all combinatorics, and I've got a paper published in that I think. I can see how those two seem contradictory, but when it comes to mafia, I'm more or less lost. An example is the finer points of "town should strive to keep parity odd...?" I've seen ehunt make huge posts that he and other claim are 100% convincing, and I'm still confused as to how that can be true.
As for Insomniac being lower than me on the list, yeah. That happened. The mixing up of the symbols was how I mistyped my second list (with myself at the bottom). It turns out that I didn't mix up the symbols because I initially put insom<shraeye. But then I looked and saw a whole list of >>>>>< and said "silly me, how did I mix up that symbol *switch to>*, when I really just switched the names"
So that's my fluff "defense" post, and the next one will be the good stuff. who should we lynch?
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Essentially the case on Jo is mine so I'm biased to think its good.
Shraeye has made me nervous by putting me as lower suspicion than himself twice.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been too involved. Fanned the flames a bit of a town on town argument.
Of the three I am the least on with the cf lynch. But he is the most likely target
Ok - so you think Jo is the scummiest - and you're voting him. Check
Shraeye - I agree that putting you lower than Shraeye on the subject list is strange
Me - Not involved? Compare my posts with say - archetype or RobZ. Fanning the flames on town on town? The townie that you're currently voting for? I don't understand this logic at all.
If I didn't have a gut feeling that you were town - I'd be all over you.
Do you really think that Jo is scummy? That as scum - he'd be so obvious in distracting us for half the day?
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VOLTAIRE- Thanks for the quick response. I may be making mountains out of molehills.
Quick aside: yeah, I think it's possible for that to be gamed, and I guess I haven't read the details enough to see whether "first to max number x" is invalidated by dipping below x for a brief time.
Like, votecount 1.4 A:3 B:2...votecount 1.5 A:2 B:3...votecount1.6 A:3 B:3...who gets lynched?
But when I'm voting, I'm just thinking like it's a normal deadline. so get my vote behind someone who I think is scum and hopefully they also have a high chance of actually being lynched.
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Essentially the case on Jo is mine so I'm biased to think its good.
Shraeye has made me nervous by putting me as lower suspicion than himself twice.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been too involved. Fanned the flames a bit of a town on town argument.
Of the three I am the least on with the cf lynch. But he is the most likely target
Ok - so you think Jo is the scummiest - and you're voting him. Check
Shraeye - I agree that putting you lower than Shraeye on the subject list is strange
Me - Not involved? Compare my posts with say - archetype or RobZ. Fanning the flames on town on town? The townie that you're currently voting for? I don't understand this logic at all.
If I didn't have a gut feeling that you were town - I'd be all over you.
Do you really think that Jo is scummy? That as scum - he'd be so obvious in distracting us for half the day?
In short, yeah. I mean, he admitted that it's blitz mafia, the choice time to try out crazy ideas and gambits. So play the "there's NO WAAAY i could be mafia and act this blatently" card actually feels like a serious possibility for joth.
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In short, yeah. I mean, he admitted that it's blitz mafia, the choice time to try out crazy ideas and gambits. So play the "there's NO WAAAY i could be mafia and act this blatently" card actually feels like a serious possibility for joth.
Interesting. That's actually pretty compelling.
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Well golly. 62 minutes, eh? I can explain the "im not good at theory" vs. hey check out this mathematical symmetry.
I'm not good at mafia theory. Which hopefully has nothing to do with symmetry in lists of combinations. That's all combinatorics, and I've got a paper published in that I think. I can see how those two seem contradictory, but when it comes to mafia, I'm more or less lost. An example is the finer points of "town should strive to keep parity odd...?" I've seen ehunt make huge posts that he and other claim are 100% convincing, and I'm still confused as to how that can be true.
As for Insomniac being lower than me on the list, yeah. That happened. The mixing up of the symbols was how I mistyped my second list (with myself at the bottom). It turns out that I didn't mix up the symbols because I initially put insom<shraeye. But then I looked and saw a whole list of >>>>>< and said "silly me, how did I mix up that symbol *switch to>*, when I really just switched the names"
So that's my fluff "defense" post, and the next one will be the good stuff. who should we lynch?
Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with "that happened" as I am that it happened twice, I've asked you about it directly once and indirectly with my wall-o-quotes post above, several others have commented on it, and it's still not been addressed, just sloughed off.
I'm also still waiting for the next post with whatever you have as "good stuff".
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So I'm rereading and catching up simultaneously, and joth just leaves me with a general bad feeling in my face. It really feels like a crazy ploy he's trying out as scum because this is Blitz. His morning statements have cooled off some and made him seem less out there until he decided to break logic in #348. His defense of that in #352 also makes no real sense to me. This seemed like he was about to shift to not #1 on my list until I read those two. Now I'm feeling like scum-joth said "oh man, crazy scum gambit didn't work. Time to start working for a real vote, passing out some town cred to shray and insom...good thing it's too late for them to turn away from frisk"
As for SFS, he's still at #2 and I think eevee had the right read there. Somebody else mentioned that he didn't like SFS actions, I think that was Frisk. That longer post Frisk made (#330) sounded pretty good. If nobody else is getting this from joth, I would want to back down to voting for SFS. This has a small chance to surpass the Frisk wagon, and Frisk is probably equal to ashersky right now in my mind. Both are just slightly more suspicious than me.
I'm trying to find words on my SFS read. The fence-sitting is a smaller part of it. Your response to eevee last night was a bigger part. The "jokingly ignore suspicion" part. Additionally, you called Frisk out on talking football last night, while you were the one engaging him in it.
As for Eevee, there's nothing I can say right now. Eevee has been on my suspicion list for a while based on a pure gut reaction, but I haven't seen anything to actually warrent a vote. And I've seen more thana few things to warrent not voting for Eevee. Archetype is now my #3, because I really dislike how little he's contributing other than a vote on someone who is giving me a nice town-read.
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Well golly. 62 minutes, eh? I can explain the "im not good at theory" vs. hey check out this mathematical symmetry.
I'm not good at mafia theory. Which hopefully has nothing to do with symmetry in lists of combinations. That's all combinatorics, and I've got a paper published in that I think. I can see how those two seem contradictory, but when it comes to mafia, I'm more or less lost. An example is the finer points of "town should strive to keep parity odd...?" I've seen ehunt make huge posts that he and other claim are 100% convincing, and I'm still confused as to how that can be true.
As for Insomniac being lower than me on the list, yeah. That happened. The mixing up of the symbols was how I mistyped my second list (with myself at the bottom). It turns out that I didn't mix up the symbols because I initially put insom<shraeye. But then I looked and saw a whole list of >>>>>< and said "silly me, how did I mix up that symbol *switch to>*, when I really just switched the names"
So that's my fluff "defense" post, and the next one will be the good stuff. who should we lynch?
Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with "that happened" as I am that it happened twice, I've asked you about it directly once and indirectly with my wall-o-quotes post above, several others have commented on it, and it's still not been addressed, just sloughed off.
I'm also still waiting for the next post with whatever you have as "good stuff".
I made a read on Insom, and it was super town. But I've already broadcasted that. The more I do it, the more likely it is he will die tonight. So I'm withholding the full explanation on purpuse.
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I'm going to have to go into a seminar soon, I'll see if I can sneak in the laptop, but I can't be banging away at the keyboard too much. Let me leave with this piece of parting advice. People need to consider it good and hard.
Essentially the case on Jo is mine so I'm biased to think its good.
Shraeye has made me nervous by putting me as lower suspicion than himself twice.
Captain_Frisk hasn't been too involved. Fanned the flames a bit of a town on town argument.
Of the three I am the least on with the cf lynch. But he is the most likely target
Ok - so you think Jo is the scummiest - and you're voting him. Check
Shraeye - I agree that putting you lower than Shraeye on the subject list is strange
Me - Not involved? Compare my posts with say - archetype or RobZ. Fanning the flames on town on town? The townie that you're currently voting for? I don't understand this logic at all.
If I didn't have a gut feeling that you were town - I'd be all over you.
Do you really think that Jo is scummy? That as scum - he'd be so obvious in distracting us for half the day?
In short, yeah. I mean, he admitted that it's blitz mafia, the choice time to try out crazy ideas and gambits. So play the "there's NO WAAAY i could be mafia and act this blatently" card actually feels like a serious possibility for joth.
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30 minutes
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@Frisk: Yes I think joth is scummy, shraeye had a good reason for thinking it joth though well its blitz try something crazy!. He had good reasons to think it would work too (SFS and Robz had voiced obvious support of it). And as I called him out on it more and more he backed down more and more which is what I would expect caught scum to do.
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I'm very tempted to switch to Jo, who is omega-super-scummy... but my Day 1 super scummy reads are never correct, so I think I'll ride out this random train and stick with Frisk.
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Got some unexpected free moments, so chiming in. I was going to quote CF's last posts and point out that they reminded me of MX, where he was scum, but then reconsidered thinking that is really the only CF I know, so maybe it wasn't the fairest of reads, so I settled on this paragraph instead.
I could see Joth flipping scum if he really thought about trying the hail Mary random gambit since it was blitz. But it seems more likely he's just town who made a misstep thinking it might be a good idea--I can relate to that from my own MX mistakes.
I'd say Shraeye and Robz tie for third on my descending list of possible scum reads, I guess. Eevee next, then the rest.
SFS remains an enigma. Any other thoughts with 23 minutes to go?
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All right, I'm convinced:
Vote: J to the whatever onah
If shraeye was really scum, he would have just switched over to me and sealed the deal. I'm still #1 on the chopping block, but at least it gives someone a chance to not lynch me - which random (FOS: RobZ - REMEMBER THIS TOMORROW PEOPLE) or not - will still kill the townie I'm sure of.
Note - i think Asher and Archetype said they were out until evening, so SFS / Eeevee I think this is coming down to the 2 of you.
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Note - i think Asher and Archetype said they were out until evening, so SFS / Eeevee I think this is coming down to the 2 of you.
Or Robz, I would still accept a change of heart on the random thing. It just feels dirty to not vote based on any sort of read at all.
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Or off the assumption that your reads are so bad, that they have no chance of being correct. That's probably worse.
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Asher IS here CF
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Or off the assumption that your reads are so bad, that they have no chance of being correct. That's probably worse.
I would love to have the ability to be wrong 100% of the time.
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Asher IS here CF
I am, I think up to the deadline.
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So you realize these are impossible accusations to defend against, right?
If I say "I'm not mafia because I did X, Y, and Z, things mafia would never do," you'll all respond with "But that's because it's Blitz and you're playing CRAZY."
Mafia have to guard their life very carefully, no matter how crazy they're being. There has been NOTHING self-preservational about my play. I refused to engage in OMGUS voting even when it would have been really justifiable on Insom and shraeye. I refused to put Frisk at L-1 despite, again, being able to justify it easily.
I argued for a lynch of no one in particular that could have hit me, and then, when given the chance to stick with my random plan while avoiding my own lynch (that is, to follow Robz onto the random Frisk lynch) I chose, instead, to recommit to following the will of the town.
And the worst part of it is, you guys will learn nothing if I'm lynched when I flip town. Because the drivers of my wagon, I firmly believe, are town. All scum did today, all they do any Day 1, was sit around and stay out of trouble.
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Can we a new Voltcount?
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ashersky, if you really have a town read on me, I think you can save me by voting Frisk, who I'm starting to think might very well be scum.
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Vote Count 1.12
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (3) - Robz888, Archetype, jotheonah
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
shraeye (1) - SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting: ashersky
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: ~15 minutes
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That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this
That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this
That is why I think blitz mafia is the perfect time to try this
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yes, as TOWN blitz mafia is a good time to take risks.
as MAFIA, never is a good time to take risks.
You can't just take a statement I made in one context and flip it into another and act like I'm hanging myself with it.
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But jo we have no idea if your mafia or town. And you have expressed that blitz is a good time to try something stupid (random lynch) so it might be a time to take risks and stick your head out as scum too you've made all sorts of comments that make me think you would try that this game.
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ashersky, if you really have a town read on me, I think you can save me by voting Frisk, who I'm starting to think might very well be scum.
That's the most desperate sounding post you've had all this time. You were right I think in your previous argument about how you had handled the intense scrutiny/pressure you got since the random idea, and that you hadn't responded with pleas or desperation. Then this? I guess we are close to the deadline. Anyone else get that feel from this? Ignoring the random thing for a minute, that is.
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yes, as TOWN blitz mafia is a good time to take risks.
as MAFIA, never is a good time to take risks.
You can't just take a statement I made in one context and flip it into another and act like I'm hanging myself with it.
I don't understand why it would be different from town or scum. The "advantage" of blitz is that its a short feedback cycle. If you blow the game - who cares because it only lasted a few days, instead of 1.5 months.
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it is desperate. but it's a desperate townie seeing a hope for a scum lynch.
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@Volt - who would get lynched right now?
J was the first to ever get to 3, but I was the first to 3 at this current time.
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@ashersky
I strongly suggest you pick a side Frisk or Joth in the next 4 minutes. Do not wait until the very last 2 minutes to do this. If you want to not vote, that is also acceptable, but realize that unless someone ninjas in that means Frisk will by lynched (i htink I read th rules right).
If you vote for joth immediately after a thread lock and a Frisk-lynch I will go after you 8000% next day.
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@Volt - who would get lynched right now?
J was the first to ever get to 3, but I was the first to 3 at this current time.
You are currently in line to be lynched. It is a "snapshot," not an "all-time," measurement.
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yes, as TOWN blitz mafia is a good time to take risks.
as MAFIA, never is a good time to take risks.
You can't just take a statement I made in one context and flip it into another and act like I'm hanging myself with it.
I don't understand why it would be different from town or scum. The "advantage" of blitz is that its a short feedback cycle. If you blow the game - who cares because it only lasted a few days, instead of 1.5 months.
That advantage holds to both teams. But for town it only balances against day 1 stakes - lose 1/7 of your team if you're wrong, cut their team in half if you're right. Mafia day 1 stakes are the other way around, so it takes much bigger balls to take a big risk Day 1, when you have the tried and true option of staying on the sidelines.
Or, to put it another way, my argument for mixing Day 1 up as town is that we never win the normal way. But scum ALWAYS win Day 1 the normal way. Why would the team that's already always winning want to mix it up?
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Anything you guys want to hear from me before I go? Reads haven't changed substantially since my mega post this morning.
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So I'm rereading and catching up simultaneously, and joth just leaves me with a general bad feeling in my face. It really feels like a crazy ploy he's trying out as scum because this is Blitz. His morning statements have cooled off some and made him seem less out there until he decided to break logic in #348. His defense of that in #352 also makes no real sense to me. This seemed like he was about to shift to not #1 on my list until I read those two. Now I'm feeling like scum-joth said "oh man, crazy scum gambit didn't work. Time to start working for a real vote, passing out some town cred to shray and insom...good thing it's too late for them to turn away from frisk"
As for SFS, he's still at #2 and I think eevee had the right read there. Somebody else mentioned that he didn't like SFS actions, I think that was Frisk. That longer post Frisk made (#330) sounded pretty good. If nobody else is getting this from joth, I would want to back down to voting for SFS. This has a small chance to surpass the Frisk wagon, and Frisk is probably equal to ashersky right now in my mind. Both are just slightly more suspicious than me.
I'm trying to find words on my SFS read. The fence-sitting is a smaller part of it. Your response to eevee last night was a bigger part. The "jokingly ignore suspicion" part. Additionally, you called Frisk out on talking football last night, while you were the one engaging him in it.
As for Eevee, there's nothing I can say right now. Eevee has been on my suspicion list for a while based on a pure gut reaction, but I haven't seen anything to actually warrent a vote. And I've seen more thana few things to warrent not voting for Eevee. Archetype is now my #3, because I really dislike how little he's contributing other than a vote on someone who is giving me a nice town-read.
Ooh, this really is "good stuff".
a) Red I added - Nice coaching.
b) Bold I added - I've responded to that.
c) Italics I added - You don't know how much I adore pronouns without antecedents, but if the "you" in this sentence is SFS, this assertion is blatantly false. Please show me the post where "I called Frisk out for talking football". You actually make my point for me in the next clause, because indeed I was "the one engaging him in it". To call him out for something I was participating would be (wait, that goes in RSP) illogical.
d) The greens (plural) I added - So you'll sheep EV, but there's nothing to say about him, except what you do say, which is that he suspicious, but not enough to vote for. Am I to read this as you thinking EV and SFS are a scumpair?
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ashersky, if you really have a town read on me, I think you can save me by voting Frisk, who I'm starting to think might very well be scum.
Really, you're really starting to think that?
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Ah..... I don't know....
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yes, as TOWN blitz mafia is a good time to take risks.
as MAFIA, never is a good time to take risks.
You can't just take a statement I made in one context and flip it into another and act like I'm hanging myself with it.
I don't understand why it would be different from town or scum. The "advantage" of blitz is that its a short feedback cycle. If you blow the game - who cares because it only lasted a few days, instead of 1.5 months.
That advantage holds to both teams. But for town it only balances against day 1 stakes - lose 1/7 of your team if you're wrong, cut their team in half if you're right. Mafia day 1 stakes are the other way around, so it takes much bigger balls to take a big risk Day 1, when you have the tried and true option of staying on the sidelines.
Or, to put it another way, my argument for mixing Day 1 up as town is that we never win the normal way. But scum ALWAYS win Day 1 the normal way. Why would the team that's already always winning want to mix it up?
Because the end results are 50/50 - indicating that while day 1 usually ends badly - it doesn't matter.
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Well golly. 62 minutes, eh? I can explain the "im not good at theory" vs. hey check out this mathematical symmetry.
I'm not good at mafia theory. Which hopefully has nothing to do with symmetry in lists of combinations. That's all combinatorics, and I've got a paper published in that I think. I can see how those two seem contradictory, but when it comes to mafia, I'm more or less lost. An example is the finer points of "town should strive to keep parity odd...?" I've seen ehunt make huge posts that he and other claim are 100% convincing, and I'm still confused as to how that can be true.
As for Insomniac being lower than me on the list, yeah. That happened. The mixing up of the symbols was how I mistyped my second list (with myself at the bottom). It turns out that I didn't mix up the symbols because I initially put insom<shraeye. But then I looked and saw a whole list of >>>>>< and said "silly me, how did I mix up that symbol *switch to>*, when I really just switched the names"
So that's my fluff "defense" post, and the next one will be the good stuff. who should we lynch?
Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with "that happened" as I am that it happened twice, I've asked you about it directly once and indirectly with my wall-o-quotes post above, several others have commented on it, and it's still not been addressed, just sloughed off.
I'm also still waiting for the next post with whatever you have as "good stuff".
I made a read on Insom, and it was super town. But I've already broadcasted that. The more I do it, the more likely it is he will die tonight. So I'm withholding the full explanation on purpuse.
That doesn't explain why he can be more town than you.
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1 minute guys...
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I... I don't know. No, I'm not switching. Shit, this is tough.
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So I'm rereading and catching up simultaneously, and joth just leaves me with a general bad feeling in my face. It really feels like a crazy ploy he's trying out as scum because this is Blitz. His morning statements have cooled off some and made him seem less out there until he decided to break logic in #348. His defense of that in #352 also makes no real sense to me. This seemed like he was about to shift to not #1 on my list until I read those two. Now I'm feeling like scum-joth said "oh man, crazy scum gambit didn't work. Time to start working for a real vote, passing out some town cred to shray and insom...good thing it's too late for them to turn away from frisk"
As for SFS, he's still at #2 and I think eevee had the right read there. Somebody else mentioned that he didn't like SFS actions, I think that was Frisk. That longer post Frisk made (#330) sounded pretty good. If nobody else is getting this from joth, I would want to back down to voting for SFS. This has a small chance to surpass the Frisk wagon, and Frisk is probably equal to ashersky right now in my mind. Both are just slightly more suspicious than me.
I'm trying to find words on my SFS read. The fence-sitting is a smaller part of it. Your response to eevee last night was a bigger part. The "jokingly ignore suspicion" part. Additionally, you called Frisk out on talking football last night, while you were the one engaging him in it.
As for Eevee, there's nothing I can say right now. Eevee has been on my suspicion list for a while based on a pure gut reaction, but I haven't seen anything to actually warrent a vote. And I've seen more thana few things to warrent not voting for Eevee. Archetype is now my #3, because I really dislike how little he's contributing other than a vote on someone who is giving me a nice town-read.
Ooh, this really is "good stuff".
a) Red I added - Nice coaching.
b) Bold I added - I've responded to that.
c) Italics I added - You don't know how much I adore pronouns without antecedents, but if the "you" in this sentence is SFS, this assertion is blatantly false. Please show me the post where "I called Frisk out for talking football". You actually make my point for me in the next clause, because indeed I was "the one engaging him in it". To call him out for something I was participating would be (wait, that goes in RSP) illogical.
d) The greens (plural) I added - So you'll sheep EV, but there's nothing to say about him, except what you do say, which is that he suspicious, but not enough to vote for. Am I to read this as you thinking EV and SFS are a scumpair?
Too much to respond to, deferred until day 2. part (c) makes very little sense to me right now.
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20 seconds! Help!
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If I die in the night I suspect shraeye of doing it.
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THREAD LOCKED
Final Day 1 Vote Count
jotheonah (3) - shraeye, Insomniac, Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (3) - Robz888, Archetype, jotheonah
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1) - Eevee
shraeye (1) - SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting: ashersky
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All eyes on the bridge turned to Captain_Frisk and jotheonah. "Frisk always had it out for Captain Voltaire!" someone shouted. "Voltaire was just a crappy copycat anyway!" shouted another. "Jotheonah is just the kind of guy to try a crazy asteroid maneuver like Voltaire - so he can't be a mutineer!" "What if he's an alien?" Everyone formed sides, except for ashersky, who was busy playing with the bridge's holoprojector. "It's a tie..." they all mumbled. "Well, we lined up first!" said Robz888, Archetype, and jotheonah, and they marched Captain_Frisk to the airlock.
Captain_Frisk, the mutineer, has been lynched.
Night actions are due in 12 hours, at midnight EST.
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As the artificial night gives way to the artificial day, everyone gathers in the mess hall for breakfast. As they ingest their protein tablets, one spot's water glass remains unemptied.
Archetype, the xenobiologist, has been killed. He was found smothered in his quarters.
Day 2 has begun.
Not voting: ashersky, Eevee, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is September 19 at 11 PM EST (~24 hours from now).
THREAD UNLOCKED
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Ok so there are 3 cops still and I'm the android one. I breadcrumed this multiple times yesterday.
Eevee no accidental breadcrumbs today! >:(
Anyways now that all systems are go how about some Vote: Archetype
"All systems go" - Robot I even said breadcrumbs in the same post
I do not have feelings, emotions, or a sense of humour. I am here to find scum.
No emotions/feelings/sense of humour again claiming Robot.
FoS to all who attempt to hide behind the veil of random lynching. (Man I hate my iPhone when I make long posts like that)
I freaking love my iPhone, this post was because iPhone and Android are rivals.
Anyways I feel that with 2 cops, we either confirm 3 or 4 townies and a counterclaim is ridiculously bad play at this point for scum (lynch either of us then the other) as well as fakeclaiming is bad (same reason) so even if they kill one of us having the confirmed townies is super useful.
I investigated SwitchedFromStarcraft last night and he is a passenger.
Because you get to see this post the reason shaereye had wanted to lynch me the least is he picked up on my android crumbs, and because of that if he is scum I expected him to kill me So that leaves me with this list.
I am the android cop
SFS - is the townie I am confirming
Jo - pretty townish - He was hesitant to vote for Frisk until it was up between Frisk and him, I find it unlikely that town drove two scum wagons.
Robz - also really townish - he could have moved the lynch to jo but did not. (and there is 2 not 3 scum)
Ash - as with robz really townish - he too could have moved the lynch to jo but did not. (and there is 2 not 3 scum)
Shaereye - I lived to see today
Archetype - He is one of my two TOP suspicions for today he is only in second place though because he did Vote for Frisk when the wagon was gaining momentum and I don't think scum would do that to their scumbuddy if there was any chance the wagon might succeed if they were going to be offline at lynch time.
Eevee - #1 suspicion. He stayed away from the frisk wagon while agreeing with me and helping the Jo wagon gain steam (and I now believe Jo to be town, sorry about yeterday). And he offered up a THIRD wagon for CF to have as a potential out. He also wasn't around at deadline.
Shaereye was my number one suspicion but I realized that if he was scum I was probably just dead so there was no point in copping him. So it came down to SFS/Eevee/Archetype. Eevee had sort of been supportive of me, and archetype had voted for frisk so I chose SFS.
When I got the passanger result back I reread Eevee and Archetype on reread Archetype had voted for Frisk at a point early enough he could be scum but its a pretty big mistake if he is scum. Eevee however had stayed away from the Frisk wagon, created an alternative wagon.
Vote: Eevee I had not intended to vote during this post but there is no reason not to as there is 0 chance of a scum quick hammer.
TL:DR: I am the android cop, I think all cops should claim (even the quack who is sort of an IC), scum CANNOT fake claim or counterclaim because they lose today or tomorrow if they do. SFS I confirm as town
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Insom, Archetype was the quack cop and he's dead.
I caught your bread crumb, that's why I refused to vote for you. I'm 99% sure shraeye caught it too.
Scum more or less has to be Eevee I agree.
But there is one possibility that would be game-changing. I'll wait to hear from everyone.
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Before addressing anything else: Ins, we only have two cops left, Archetype was the quack cop.
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Should we mass claim even with only two cops in the game?
Oh and Ins, I absolutely did not drive the Jot - wagon, I expressed unwillingness to vote for him over and over again. I'm sorry for not being around for the deadline, I had trouble falling asleep (one could say I was Insomniac :) ), and woke up two hours too late.
Jot, why do you think it has to be me?
I mean, I will try to figure out who the last mafia is and we will be in good enough shape even if we end up mislynching me. Just give me the case and I'll respond, so you'll have more useful stuff after my flip. Ins and SfS are innocent childs obviously, unless counter claims emerge.
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Yup, hence shraeye>insom. I was looking at interactions with frisk from yesterday and am fairly sure SFS and Robz are towny. I had archetype down as a ? because he just didn't interact that much. It's good to know that he wasn't one of the useful cops at least. My suspect list is eevee, ashersky and jotheonah. And they go in this order from scummy to not scummy
eevee: scummiest
ashersky:scummier
joth:lightly scummy
I'll be posting more in the morning, but I'm too tired right now.
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We have 7 alive, unless we are really unlucky and SfS is the last cop, we have 3 innocent childs (Ins, SfS and the last cop). I know I'm town, so the mafia has to be one of the three guys left. I'll wait for the claims, and then start re-reading to form an opinion. I don't mind getting lynched if the evidence points to me, we'll still be in very good shape going into tomorrow with 4 townies (at least some of them innocent childs) and 1 mafia.
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If i were the other cop, i'd hold off claming for right now.
Also others should hold off too, so that we don't expose 2nd cop by elimination. we have 24 hours. lets use them, and make a foolproof play.
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Also, can I get a hell yeah for the first f.ds Day 1 scum lynch ever?
Eevee, PoE seems to point to you. Frisk's lynch was so close that scum wouldn't bus. So as far as I'm concerned his whole wagon, and anyone who was online and could have saved him by voting me, is clear. That's me, Robz, ashersky. Archetype is dead. Insom is a cop. SFS is cop-cleared.
That leaves you and shraeye. Shraeye caught Insom's breadcrumb like I did. I think that if scum caught insom's breadcrumb, they would have pushed to lynch him rather than protect him like shraeye did. I COULD be wrong on that.
Anyway, it's got to be you or shraeye, and there's nothing really that clears you.
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Insom, Archetype was the quack cop and he's dead.
I caught your bread crumb, that's why I refused to vote for you. I'm 99% sure shraeye caught it too.
Scum more or less has to be Eevee I agree.
But there is one possibility that would be game-changing. I'll wait to hear from everyone.
I'm pretty sure I'm right there next to you in your head, dude. It's scary hearing my thoughts from somebody else.
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If i were the other cop, i'd hold off claming for right now.
Also others should hold off too, so that we don't expose 2nd cop by elimination. we have 24 hours. lets use them, and make a foolproof play.
Why do you think that? We are going to have so many innocent childs, scum cant possible kill everyone anyways. And we have no doctor either, so improving his odds to save one of them isn't going to happen.
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Guys, with what's come out, I'll point at Shraeye as our most likely suspect. Here's my thought process over the last several hours.
Town reads (Robz, Arch, me): Robz, because it would have been an amazing gambit for him to wait for the random lynch idea to come up, force his scumbuddy Frisk into that spot with a split-second post to get the 3 at the end, then not unvote at the end. He was there at deadline, waivered, then didn't saved Frisk, when he could have lynched joth with no one knowing Frisk's mafia-ness. Just can't see it. Archetype was a town read for basically not being around but planting his vote on Frisk and not ever coming back to take it off. And he's confirmed town now. And me, of course.
Frisk partner possibles: Insom, Shraeye, joth.
On joth: I thought one of two things happened--Frisk and joth planned to duke it out, with Frisk painting it as a town vs. town thing so that they could clear themselves. What makes me think that's at least a bit unlikely was the joth desperate post near the deadline (which I noted to him) and Frisk's question to the mod on who was actually in line to be lynched. If they planned it together, I don't see them needing to do either of those things.
So if the Joth thing didn't happen, which at this point I don't think could have, I have to believe that Frisk's partner was on the joth wagon, trying to save him by pressing it. To me, that was Insom and Shraeye. Insom especially, with the repeated quoting (with bold, then large type). Now that he's claimed robot, and pointed to his own breadcrumbs, I move to Shraeye. I don't feel like he has anything in his corner to help himself out.
On Eevee--I think it's wrong to assume it was him, although scum Eevee would be fun to catch. I checked and he wasn't on at the deadline (sleeping, if I recall his sign off post). Now, I believe a scum-Eevee would have done something more to help his deadline.
So that leaves me with Shraeye as my #1 suspect, for pushing the joth wagon pretty hard, and just by checking out possible partners. As insom mentioned, I could have saved Frisk, but didn't.
In fact, I feel comfortable with Vote: Shraeye.
I didn't discuss SFS, who I don't think is cleared by insom, by the way. Passenger does not equal town, does it? I thought that only meant someone who was already on the ship instead of an alien, which Frisk has shown us weren't on board anyway. Can we get a mod confirm on that, if allowed?
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Also, can I get a hell yeah for the first f.ds Day 1 scum lynch ever?
Eevee, PoE seems to point to you. Frisk's lynch was so close that scum wouldn't bus. So as far as I'm concerned his whole wagon, and anyone who was online and could have saved him by voting me, is clear. That's me, Robz, ashersky. Archetype is dead. Insom is a cop. SFS is cop-cleared.
That leaves you and shraeye. Shraeye caught Insom's breadcrumb like I did. I think that if scum caught insom's breadcrumb, they would have pushed to lynch him rather than protect him like shraeye did. I COULD be wrong on that.
Anyway, it's got to be you or shraeye, and there's nothing really that clears you.
I could see scum ashersky not voting for joth and bussing frisk. That is mostly because that would have made the two new votes on joth both scum (in this hypothecital asher/frisk pair) and essentially have been a mafia-quickhammer-type vote in my eyes. Maybe asher weighed his options to go alone as scum while gaining town cred, or act suuuper scummy together.
I want to reread the thread three times each with eyes for one of those three pairs I suspect are possible: eevee, asher, joth
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HELL YEAH! And about that random lynch jot..? ;)
Okay, I see the case against me is compelling. So compelling in fact, if I was mafia here I would just selfvote and stop wasting everyone's time. I'm not however, so I feel the thing to do for me here is to bite the bullet for town but first give my insight to help you guys tomorrow. If you mislynch tomorrow, you'll still have the 2 townies 1 mafia situation day 4, so this actually does look really good for town, especially with all these cops we have alive.
PPE: 2 new replies, someone seems to be voting for shraeye. I'll post this first and then catch up.
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I didn't discuss SFS, who I don't think is cleared by insom, by the way. Passenger does not equal town, does it? I thought that only meant someone who was already on the ship instead of an alien, which Frisk has shown us weren't on board anyway. Can we get a mod confirm on that, if allowed?
Nevermind, I re-read the first post. Vanilla = passenger. So yes, SFS is cleared.
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Guys, with what's come out, I'll point at Shraeye as our most likely suspect. Here's my thought process over the last several hours.
Town reads (Robz, Arch, me): Robz, because it would have been an amazing gambit for him to wait for the random lynch idea to come up, force his scumbuddy Frisk into that spot with a split-second post to get the 3 at the end, then not unvote at the end. He was there at deadline, waivered, then didn't saved Frisk, when he could have lynched joth with no one knowing Frisk's mafia-ness. Just can't see it. Archetype was a town read for basically not being around but planting his vote on Frisk and not ever coming back to take it off. And he's confirmed town now. And me, of course.
Frisk partner possibles: Insom, Shraeye, joth.
On joth: I thought one of two things happened--Frisk and joth planned to duke it out, with Frisk painting it as a town vs. town thing so that they could clear themselves. What makes me think that's at least a bit unlikely was the joth desperate post near the deadline (which I noted to him) and Frisk's question to the mod on who was actually in line to be lynched. If they planned it together, I don't see them needing to do either of those things.
So if the Joth thing didn't happen, which at this point I don't think could have, I have to believe that Frisk's partner was on the joth wagon, trying to save him by pressing it. To me, that was Insom and Shraeye. Insom especially, with the repeated quoting (with bold, then large type). Now that he's claimed robot, and pointed to his own breadcrumbs, I move to Shraeye. I don't feel like he has anything in his corner to help himself out.
On Eevee--I think it's wrong to assume it was him, although scum Eevee would be fun to catch. I checked and he wasn't on at the deadline (sleeping, if I recall his sign off post). Now, I believe a scum-Eevee would have done something more to help his deadline.
So that leaves me with Shraeye as my #1 suspect, for pushing the joth wagon pretty hard, and just by checking out possible partners. As insom mentioned, I could have saved Frisk, but didn't.
In fact, I feel comfortable with Vote: Shraeye.
I didn't discuss SFS, who I don't think is cleared by insom, by the way. Passenger does not equal town, does it? I thought that only meant someone who was already on the ship instead of an alien, which Frisk has shown us weren't on board anyway. Can we get a mod confirm on that, if allowed?
I'm still holding off all voting until I've had a chance to do a fresh reread. here's something that doesn't make sense. How does Robz manipulate the second counter on voltaire's post? I don't suspect Robz but I also hate seeing shoddy arguments.
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I'm still holding off all voting until I've had a chance to do a fresh reread. here's something that doesn't make sense. How does Robz manipulate the second counter on voltaire's post? I don't suspect Robz but I also hate seeing shoddy arguments.
That's what I mean, there's no way he could pull that off, right? Hence me seeing it as extremely unlikely Robz/Frisk planned that escapade.
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Okay, so while objectively I would like Insomniac's case against me more, with the extra information of my towniness I like what ashersky is presenting us.
One huge problem though. If shraeye knew Insomniac was the cop, why would he let him live? As a gambit to become obvtown, trusting he won't investigate him because he basically told Ins he knows yesterday already?
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In short, yeah. I mean, he admitted that it's blitz mafia, the choice time to try out crazy ideas and gambits. So play the "there's NO WAAAY i could be mafia and act this blatently" card actually feels like a serious possibility for joth.
Interesting. That's actually pretty compelling.
Just posting this for perspective. As Shraeye mentioned, re-reading with an eye toward pairs. Man, this looks terrible post-Frisk-flip.
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Holy moly, the detective might also have an investigation result for us!
I really he think we should mass claim, shraeye seems to disagree. Others?
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One huge problem though. If shraeye knew Insomniac was the cop, why would he let him live? As a gambit to become obvtown, trusting he won't investigate him because he basically told Ins he knows yesterday already?
Obvtown gambit is possible. I'd bank on him not having picked up on it. I mean, I didn't. Did you? Or maybe I'm dense when it comes to spotting clues.
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When shraeye listed himself before insom on the lynch list, it was pretty clear to me he'd picked up the same breadcrumb I did (or one of the others).
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One huge problem though. If shraeye knew Insomniac was the cop, why would he let him live? As a gambit to become obvtown, trusting he won't investigate him because he basically told Ins he knows yesterday already?
Obvtown gambit is possible. I'd bank on him not having picked up on it. I mean, I didn't. Did you? Or maybe I'm dense when it comes to spotting clues.
Oh I didn't, but I'm really stupid. The thing is, he said "I don't want to vote for Ins for a reason I can't disclose" already yesterday.
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I don't disagree with massclaim, I just wanted to do some quick checking on a piece of paper to see how bad things could get if Insom fake-crumbed.
Also re: did shray pick up on it. I did as soon as Insom said
man, f.DS does not get jokes. Yes voting SFS because he said his letter was L was a joke. He said that L was for loser since he's 0-2 despite surviving. Further joke: only by not surviving does he win.
It's meant to be as hilariously generalizing as the morgrim rule.
I do not have feelings, emotions, or a sense of humour. I am here to find scum.
Then I say
@Insom
Then we're cool; I won't vote for you.
and put him as a worse lynch than me 2 times. And it's true; you all would have been super sad to lynch insom, and only somewhat sad to lynch me.
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I don't disagree with massclaim, I just wanted to do some quick checking on a piece of paper to see how bad things could get if Insom fake-crumbed.
Also, i have no idea where we'd be. I've seena few people assuring that at this point all fake-claims and counter-claims will be handleable; but I think that was insom talking. Can anyone else confirm this?
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Holy moly, the detective might also have an investigation result for us!
I really he think we should mass claim, shraeye seems to disagree. Others?
I do think it would work, in the end, given the numbers. I do think if the Detective had investigated the other mutineer, he would have told us. It's probably worth a claim to save a townie, though.
So if shraeye is town, which of course is possible, there's insom with the fake-crumb/claim (which I can't see, since wouldn't the real android counterclaim?), or Eevee.
Tough to see those alternates working, but I will admit the quotes showing shraeye picking up on the crumbs is compelling.
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If someone can show us how a town-win is possible with mass claim (then there shoudl be only one contradictory claim) then I'm jumping all over taht. This should be possible, right?
But I want to inspect the method for functionality before pulling any claim-triggers.
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I started out wanting mass claim, they can't kill 3-4 IC's and the quack cop is dead so the only survivors are useful cops so we get at least one more cop result.
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Here's how I see mass claims going:
Someone claims to be Detective, gives us a read from last night. Everyone else says they are passengers. There could be counter claims on android or detective. We fight, argue, etc. Eventually, we...
--lynch scum, we win!
--lynch a passenger, scum NKs Detective claimer, D3 is 4 against 1 with another android read
--lynch the detective claimer (who turns out to be detective), scum NKs passenger, D3 is 4 against 1 with another android read
--one of the two above, except android gets NK'ed
That sound about right? Seems like worse case is we go into D3 at 4 against 1 with a good shot at winning.
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I insist that if we claim, Eevee claims first and then shraeye.
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Ok, i'm going to go through this at my own slow pace, because I'm talking to my gf on phone right now so I'm not concentrating enough to follow other people's arguments.
If scum counterclaims any cop role, then we have 2 suspicious people (fake android/real android) or (fakecop/real cop) and then clearly we can lynch them both. one night 2, and one night 3. Then we win.
So obviously scum claims VT. Then we can believe both the cop/android investigations.
So that means we have minimum 3 known town. (in the case that other cop also investigate SFS or achetype)
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so what happens then? after that point in my logic?
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Ok, i'm going to go through this at my own slow pace, because I'm talking to my gf on phone right now so I'm not concentrating enough to follow other people's arguments.
If scum counterclaims any cop role, then we have 2 suspicious people (fake android/real android) or (fakecop/real cop) and then clearly we can lynch them both. one night 2, and one night 3. Then we win.
So obviously scum claims VT. Then we can believe both the cop/android investigations.
So that means we have minimum 3 known town. (in the case that other cop also investigate SFS or achetype)
I'm calling scumslip on that. Town works in the day, man. My vote stays on shraeye.
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Okay, maybe me wanting a mass claim is a little bit selfish. It would make my day 2 (apparently my last day alive) a much more enjoyable, because I'd have this extra knowledge you don't yet possess (that I'm town), and I'd possibly get to "catch" the second mutineer first.
We don't have a doctor, so one of our cops is going to die tonight either way. If we don't massclaim, it's guaranteed to be Insomniac, if we do, it will be the other cop who is more useful. The awesome part is, town can afford TWO mislynches at this point, and the cops will be feeding us with innocent childs mafia has no time to kill as we move forward. (Insomniac won't get to clear anybody anymore but the detective might have cleared someone already, and will 100% clear someone for tomorrow.)
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Okay, jotheonah. I'm vanilla town.
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Ok, i'm going to go through this at my own slow pace, because I'm talking to my gf on phone right now so I'm not concentrating enough to follow other people's arguments.
If scum counterclaims any cop role, then we have 2 suspicious people (fake android/real android) or (fakecop/real cop) and then clearly we can lynch them both. one night 2, and one night 3. Then we win.
So obviously scum claims VT. Then we can believe both the cop/android investigations.
So that means we have minimum 3 known town. (in the case that other cop also investigate SFS or achetype)
I'm calling scumslip on that. Town works in the day, man. My vote stays on shraeye.
mistake yes. I'm still town; as I said I'm currently talking to gf and distracted. we're talking about tattoo placement right now.
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and you jumping at that makes me even more suspicioius of you. I put you at top of asher/eevee/joth pile.
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Ok, i'm going to go through this at my own slow pace, because I'm talking to my gf on phone right now so I'm not concentrating enough to follow other people's arguments.
If scum counterclaims any cop role, then we have 2 suspicious people (fake android/real android) or (fakecop/real cop) and then clearly we can lynch them both. one night 2, and one night 3. Then we win.
So obviously scum claims VT. Then we can believe both the cop/android investigations.
So that means we have minimum 3 known town. (in the case that other cop also investigate SFS or achetype)
I'm calling scumslip on that. Town works in the day, man. My vote stays on shraeye.
mistake yes. I'm still town; as I said I'm currently talking to gf and distracted. we're talking about tattoo placement right now.
You must know that a lot of this sounds like scrambling under pressure (which of course, you are, since you are under pressure). Read at your own pace, busy with GF, need to rethink, etc. sounds like stalling.
We do have time, I suppose, and it is getting late, at least here. But it is blitz. As has been mentioned, we can afford a mislynch or two. But I'm all for just winning it right here.
and you jumping at that makes me even more suspicioius of you. I put you at top of asher/eevee/joth pile.
And some PPE OMGUS to boot.
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I'm stalling everyone because "We do have time, I suppose" as you say. I see a win in the future and I selfishly want to be alive for that. I see people rushing to get to the end, and I know it's exciting. But I'm sure that playing patiently and smart will give us the best odds to win. since they're huge anyway, the only chance scum has left is to try to rush people into hasty decisions before we pool our common information.
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Shraeye, we know you have a situation going IRL, but the longer you hold off the requested claim, the more it seems like you are thinking whether to fakeclaim or not. Typing "a passenger", "vanilla townie" or "the missing cop" doesn't take very long, and would be a nobrainer if that was what you were.
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You've now posted twice after my claim.
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Okay, it's late, and I think I'm going to sleep. Just some final words, in case something crazy happens overnight.
I'm comfortable with my vote, and my reads on people. This is contingent on Insom's claim being real, which hopefully can be confirmed once everyone still alive gets in thread again. If there's a counterclaim, then I'll back off shraeye for the time being, at least until we sort that out. I think most are convinced by the breadcrumbs and his first post today, though.
If massclaiming happens, I'll join in in the a.m. But I'm not necessarily convinced it's required yet. The second cop has one read, and can get a second read on N2 if we don't lynch scum today, since we can assume insom gets NK'ed.
This is a great game so far! We should definitely parade our D1 mafia-lynch around on a banner.
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I know. as I stated before, I want to know our plan. My claim is queued up and ready, but I want to know what happens when we get 5 VT claims, 1 android and 1 other cop, and only SFS is cleared town. How do we endgame the scum? Once I see the path to victory, I'm going to run it. But we've got 23 hours so I can afford to be patient and safe.
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I'm stalling everyone because "We do have time, I suppose" as you say. I see a win in the future and I selfishly want to be alive for that. I see people rushing to get to the end, and I know it's exciting. But I'm sure that playing patiently and smart will give us the best odds to win. since they're huge anyway, the only chance scum has left is to try to rush people into hasty decisions before we pool our common information.
If I'm scum, why would I be "rushing" us into this, then? Scum's only chance at winning this is to seem the most safe, townish person around, and then to kill off everyone. I'm doing myself no favors if I'm scum. I'm basically setting up my lynch on D3, aren't I?
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I'm stalling everyone because "We do have time, I suppose" as you say. I see a win in the future and I selfishly want to be alive for that. I see people rushing to get to the end, and I know it's exciting. But I'm sure that playing patiently and smart will give us the best odds to win. since they're huge anyway, the only chance scum has left is to try to rush people into hasty decisions before we pool our common information.
If I'm scum, why would I be "rushing" us into this, then? Scum's only chance at winning this is to seem the most safe, townish person around, and then to kill off everyone. I'm doing myself no favors if I'm scum. I'm basically setting up my lynch on D3, aren't I?
I'm pretty sure we have the numbers to make a scum win impossible. I want to chart that course out. I will claim once I know how we are winning. If that makes me scummy, then you have the worst definition of scummy.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the only way scum can win this is if SfS is the detective and has investigated Insomniac or Archetype.
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I've already figured out that town guarantees a win with at most one mislynch if scum counterclaims either of our cop-figures. Now I'm working on the worst case scenario for "scum claims VT".
I'm trying to figure out what that is, and I need to know if Insomniac's knowledge of passenger/nonpassenger means that other power roles investigate as non-passenger. Because if Insom can only detect alignment, then it's possible that SFS is the other cop and he investigated Archetype or Insom, that would be our worst case scenario as town.
If insom detects VT/not VT then we know that our worst case scenario is 3 known town and 4 VT-claimers. Then they will lynch one claimer, and insom/other investigate again (i'd prefer we coordinate these investigations so that there is no overlap).
If the lynched is scum, WIN.
If one of the scum is under investigation, they could choose not to kill that cop. Day 3 cop reveals investigation and we WIN. So suppose they choose to kill that cop. Then we have 3 conf-town the next day (SFS, whichever cop wasn't killed, his investigatee) versus 2 unknown claimers. Kill one day 3. possible NK, now with town of three people 2 are conftown and we WIN.
If scum was the person we don't lynch or investigate, he has 2 choices in NK. not cop, in which case we start day 3 with 5 people, 4 conftown and a WIN. So suppose he kills a cop. Then we start day 3 with 5 people, 3 are conftown. This can be finished the same as above.
THEREFORE if Insomniac's role returns VT/non-VT town has endgamed mafia.
In my next post I'll investigate the other scary scenario (hopefully I can get mod-conf on Insom's powers before then?)
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Assuming no one counterclaims Insomniac and we'll get one detective claim and everyone else claims VT, we have three possible scenarios for today. These are all worst cases, assuming town always lynches one of the unconfirmed townies:
A) (2 conf towns today scenario)
SfS is the detective and doesn't have any results for us: Insomniac and SfS are conftown. SfS will be nightkilled but Insomniac will have another conftown for us -> tomorrow we'll have 5 players and 2 confirmed townies. They pick wrong again, Insomniac gets nightkilled and there is 1 confirmed townie left who has to pick right from the other two guys. Scum can still win.
B) (3 conf towns today scenario)
Someone else is the detective but has no (new) results or SfS is the detective but can clear someone new: 3 conftowns alive today, 3 conftowns still alive tomorrow (one of the unconfirmed townies lynched today, the detective nightkilled but Insomniac has cleared someone new) -> tomorrow we'll have 3/5 players confirmed town, victory.
c) (4 conf towns today scenario)
Obviously a win, as 3 was enough.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the only way scum can win this is if SfS is the detective and has investigated Insomniac or Archetype.
Right, here's one of the reasons I was worried about a hasty claim...not sure...I'm going to pull out a fresh piece of paper and see what's possible.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the only way scum can win this is if SfS is the detective and has investigated Insomniac or Archetype.
Right, here's one of the reasons I was worried about a hasty claim...not sure...I'm going to pull out a fresh piece of paper and see what's possible.
I'm pretty sure Insomniac would investigate the other detective role as "non-passenger", so actually we can scratch the worst case scenario (paging mod-confirmation about that just to be sure, ofc).
I think we've won no matter what.
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Right so both me and Eevee have figured out that if you are the other cop AND not SFS, it is safe to claim, and town has won.
If you are the other cop AND sfs, it is safe to claim as long as you investigated someone last night who is still alive today.
It's totally safe to do this, (eevee confirm if you agree, so nobody feels like I could be scum pressuring a bad decision) as in both of these scenarios MAFIA IS ENDGAMED.
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My laughable attempts at logic at 7:20am after not sleeping at all must amuse the good folk at the spectator topic, but I think we've got this.
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Let's get some rest, and do this after we've both had some rest.
In that time we will wait for Mod-confirmation on Insom's powers, or a non-SFS claim on cop, or an SFS claim on cop with important results regarding any living player (other than Insom). We are safe even if mafia tries to make one of those claims falsely because we can then start Operation: Massclaim and this kicks of a 100% town win scenario.
If none of these happens in the next 8 hours, let's start focusing on that crazy-bad scenario.
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Ah, it has just occured to me that if the choices are (A) town wins automatically with mass-roleclaim or (B) we are in a bad scenario where SFS claims cop (investigated arch/Insom) and everyone else claims VT, that there is no reason to hold back any claiming. So I can now claim, and everyone else can, really in any order at all. Shraeye is VT.
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VT Claims are to be expected, as scum will not fake claim, they immediately lose over it.
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Yeah, I'm 99% sure Insomniac investigated SfS as exactly a VT, so we are basically just waiting for the detective to claim and then for Ins/him/SfS to decide who to lynch today. As long as the cops investigate different guys (announcing your targets publicly in this thread will be fine), scum will have no way of stopping us from having three confirmed townies alive tomorrow (1 cop and 2 investigation results or 2 cops and 1 investigation result), out of 5 players total. Then, even if they pick the wrong guy again, on day 4 there are 2 confirmed townies left and they'll just lynch the mutineer.
If scum fakeclaims, there will be a counterclaim and we'll lynch one of them today and the other tomorrow, again a guaranteed win.
Yay!
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VT Claims are to be expected, as scum will not fake claim, they immediately lose over it.
Am I missing something in my post above? I think we've won no matter what.
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I'm pretty sure too, I just wanted every single base covered, as it appeared you also did. Once we get into our endgame scenario, it is still worth discussing who to bump off first. A day 2 win would be super sweet.
Win a mafia game as fast as possible? check.
man i wish SFS were here right now. He could put that 1% fear to reeeest! Then I could finally sleep, I'm too fired up right now.
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Hello everybody, finally checking in.
HAHAHAHAHAHA RANDOM LYNCH WORKS, TAKE THAT HATERS, 1/1 FOR RANDOM LYNCH, 0/11 FOR REAL LYNCH, WHAT NOW???
It seems like you guys have it mathematically figured out that we pretty much just win from this point on, so I'll just take your word for it, since I'm not very good at that stuff.
If Insomniac and SFS are town, my guess for the last mafia would have to be Eevee or Jo, I guess. I do find Jo mildly scummy, for reasons I stated yesterday. And I don't think he deserves much credit for killing scum yesterday when he was the alternative. Sure, you'll vote for a fellow scum to save yourself. And like I said, I didn't like him distancing himself from the random method he came up with, after it picked Frisk. That's probably exactly what you would have to do if the random counter hit your mafia cohort.
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We are sort of doing a mass-claim here Robz.. I take it you are not the detective then? I guess it was Jot after all.
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Here's another piece of information that I want players to claim when they claim their roles. Did you figure out Insomniac's breadcrumbs, and at what point in the posting yesterday did you figure it out (evidence from your posts is encouraged)?
So here's how I would like claims to look.
I'm VT
I picked up on Insom's crumb right at post #100. As soon as I read that I posted #102
@Insom
Then we're cool; I won't vote for you.
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We are sort of doing a mass-claim here Robz.. I take it you are not the detective then? I guess it was Jot after all.
I'm not a detective, no.
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We are sort of doing a mass-claim here Robz.. I take it you are not the detective then? I guess it was Jot after all.
I'm not a detective, no.
Way to throw cold water on my "It's Jo" argument, Eevee.
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It could be Jo or SfS though right?
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It could be Jo or SfS though right?
I'm pretty confused. I guess I better go back and read the setup again. Unless some kind person would like to explain what's happenin...
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It could be Jo or SfS though right?
Your investigation should have returned "not a passenger" if it was SfS I think. Jot sort of softclaimed today already, so that why I'm guessing it's him.
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It could be Jo or SfS though right?
If you got the result "Passenger" for SFS, don't you know that he isn't the Detective? I may be confused.
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Hmm I didn't catch that, but that seems to be the case. I just assume it meant town aligned.
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If Jo is the detective, and I guess he is, our Day 1 amazing random success was very nearly a Day 1 calculated total disaster. I was very torn on whether to switch to Jo at the end, because I really did have a scum read on him, and I had no reason to vote Frisk other than the random thing. Imagine if I had killed the cop at the last minute! Truly, the lesson here is to throw away the evidence and just do whatever a random number simulator says.
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Won't be on for the next 10 hours or so, but I don't even care if you lynch me or not, just follow the plan I laid out above and we will win this thing.
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Don't know when I will have more time to post.
I am the Dectective. I investigated Joth last night, and confirm he is not a mutineer. I wanted to rule him out to be sure he and Frisk hadn't run an elaborate scheme, plus his generally odd behavior on D1.
Also, knowing he is town, it made examining the wagons a lot easier. I am still fully on the Shraeye lynch. I believe Frisk's partner was on joth's wagon. If I am wrong, and either get lynched or NKed, it would have to be Robz or Eevee, unless Insom fake claimed. As I mentioned in my first D2 post, Insom was my #1 suspect before his claim.
No matter what, I believe we have this game won as town. Just a matter of time.
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If Jo is the detective, and I guess he is, our Day 1 amazing random success was very nearly a Day 1 calculated total disaster. I was very torn on whether to switch to Jo at the end, because I really did have a scum read on him, and I had no reason to vote Frisk other than the random thing. Imagine if I had killed the cop at the last minute! Truly, the lesson here is to throw away the evidence and just do whatever a random number simulator says.
This is what I'm saying! Or just always lynch Frisk ;)
I'm a VT. I saw Insom's "no humor or emotion" breadcrumb, #100.
I think shraeye, Eevee, or Robz could be the mafia, although Robz is the least likely given how easy it would have been for him to switch the lynch to me yesterday.
I think the fact that Insom didn't die last night also points to shraeye. His crumb was obvious enough that the mafia ought to have picked it up at least on a reread, and his death would have pointed to shraeye (given he ended the day saying "If I die lynch shraeye"). So shraeye had the most incentive to lynch someone else.
Dunno if I'll have access before deadline, so Vote: shraeye.
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Assuming no counterclaims, all you cops have to do at this point is remember to submit night actions and votes (obviously investigate either me or Robz assuming we lynch shraeye today and the game doesn't end). Vote: shraeye, but don't let this get to a lynch before everyone has had a chance to counterclaim (I guess it's just jot and SfS at this point, but still a remote possibility.)
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oops did i just accidentally hammer trolololol, that might've been the scummiest thing i've ever done. fos @forum for not warning me >_> doesn't really matter but yeah, joth cop me and ins cop robz if that's 4 already.
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I'm not the cop!
Ash cop Eevee for sure if that was really a hammer.
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Eevee, you put him at L-1. Also, I am the detective, Joth is vt. But yes, we've got this set.
I think we've got scum lynched with one more vote, but if we are wrong, Insom and I will investigate you and Robz.
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I'm not the cop!
Ash cop Eevee for sure if that was really a hammer.
Will do. Votes on Shraeye are me, you, and Eevee.
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Have started reading, but am not caught up, and I can't give it any more attention right now.
I would like to apologize to Shray, and to town (I allow for the possibility for those two still being in separate categories). My attention to Shray's #365, coupled with the flurry of deadline posts, cause me to miss #366 completely. If I had seen it, I would never have posted #397. I too immediately caught the breadcrumb at #100, and somehow didn't put the two together until I reread the thread after the lock.
In my opinion, there are other breadcrumbs. I'll be back in about 90 minutes. Let's go slowly and get it right. I HATE being wrong.
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Oh It's still 3, so L-1. Well, I just went back to look and indeed the last thing Ins posted yesterday was that if he dies, itmwas probably shraeye so he is actually the guy with least motivation to kill Ins, despite noticing the crumb. So someone just hammer him already!
PPE: indeed ashersky not jot in my last one, was posting panicked and hasty..
We need a fourth guy to come online and take the glory with a hammer now!
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ashersky, if you really have a town read on me, I think you can save me by voting Frisk, who I'm starting to think might very well be scum.
Really, you're really starting to think that?
For the record, yes I was. This post:
All right, I'm convinced:
Vote: J to the whatever onah
If shraeye was really scum, he would have just switched over to me and sealed the deal. I'm still #1 on the chopping block, but at least it gives someone a chance to not lynch me - which random (FOS: RobZ - REMEMBER THIS TOMORROW PEOPLE) or not - will still kill the townie I'm sure of.
Note - i think Asher and Archetype said they were out until evening, so SFS / Eeevee I think this is coming down to the 2 of you.
was a little too theatrical. Like he always meant to vote for me but wanted it to seem like it was a big put-upon deal. Gave me my first real scumread of the day.
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Oh It's still 3, so L-1. Well, I just went back to look and indeed the last thing Ins posted yesterday was that if he dies, itmwas probably shraeye so he is actually the guy with least motivation to kill Ins, despite noticing the crumb. So someone just hammer him already!
PPE: indeed ashersky not jot in my last one, was posting panicked and hasty..
We need a fourth guy to come online and take the glory with a hammer now!
Unvote. Vote: Eevee.
What possible reason would a townie have to be panicked right now?
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Oh It's still 3, so L-1. Well, I just went back to look and indeed the last thing Ins posted yesterday was that if he dies, itmwas probably shraeye so he is actually the guy with least motivation to kill Ins, despite noticing the crumb. So someone just hammer him already!
PPE: indeed ashersky not jot in my last one, was posting panicked and hasty..
We need a fourth guy to come online and take the glory with a hammer now!
Unvote. Vote: Eevee.
What possible reason would a townie have to be panicked right now?
Uhm the fact I thought I had just accidentally hammered? I have proved town wins this no matter what like three times now, and am actually ~85% sure the mutineer is shraeye, but sure lynch me first if it makes you happier. For the record, if I was scum I propably wouldn't have wasted all that time proving to you guys how my faction couldn't win anymore barring someone getting modkilled or something.
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That argument would clear shraeye, too.
...is it Robz then? He's the only remaining suspect who didn't participate in the breaking of the game just now...
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Also, I'm not sure we want to announce cop targets?
Of three suspects, our cops can only investigate 2. If we know ahead of time who's going for who, the scum can just shoot the cop who is investigating them. I don't think we need to give them that help. Better to let the cops decide themselves which of the three to investigate.
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That argument would clear shraeye, too.
...is it Robz then? He's the only remaining suspect who didn't participate in the breaking of the game just now...
I'm giving 1% to a mod error or someone misreading their role pm, Robz is obviously the other 19%. Mostly because he contributed to Frisk's death and because Insomniac survived the night.
Doesn't even matter, we have 2 functioning cops and 2 confirmed townies and scum only has one kill per night. This is taking longer than it needs to! For heavens sake, we can afford two mislynches so town could actually lynch all three of us and still win! Just hop on the shraeye wagon, I wouldn't prolong the inevitable like this if I was scum.
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Also, I'm not sure we want to announce cop targets?
Of three suspects, our cops can only investigate 2. If we know ahead of time who's going for who, the scum can just shoot the cop who is investigating them. I don't think we need to give them that help. Better to let the cops decide themselves which of the three to investigate.
Argggh. The maximum amount of unconfirmed townies alive tomorrow is two. Whoever the mutineer decides to nightkill, town will be guaranteed to know everything 100%.
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One cop's investigation result would be enough to catch the mutineer, because at that point 4/5 players would be confirmed townies or the cop would have received a guilty on his investigation.
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One cop's investigation result would be enough to catch the mutineer, because at that point 4/5 players would be confirmed townies or the cop would have received a guilty on his investigation.
I don't think that's true. Say ashersky investigates Robz and clears him and Insom is NK'd. Then we'd still have to choose between you and shraeye.
Granted, we'd have a guaranteed win at LyLo.
I'd really like to guess right TODAY, though. Wouldn't it be great to have a flawless victory for town?
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One cop's investigation result would be enough to catch the mutineer, because at that point 4/5 players would be confirmed townies or the cop would have received a guilty on his investigation.
I don't think that's true. Say ashersky investigates Robz and clears him and Insom is NK'd. Then we'd still have to choose between you and shraeye.
Granted, we'd have a guaranteed win at LyLo.
I'd really like to guess right TODAY, though. Wouldn't it be great to have a flawless victory for town?
Nope, because in that scenario either me or shraeye would have been lynched today or ashersky would be investigating a dead person.
And yes I'm very interested in getting a flawless victory. That's why I want you and someone else (SfS!) to vote for shraeye.
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Tomorrow we'll have 7-2=5 players left, we have 4 conftowns today, one of them will die but we have 2 cops so we'll get at least one new conftown (or find scum). Worst case scenario: out of 5 living players, 4 will be conftown tomorrow. That would make finding the mutineer rather easy, don't you think? Oh and we can still afford to mislynch tomorrow if that somehow fails, so..
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Oh, you're right. Sorry. This is why I don't do the maths.
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Oh, you're right. Sorry. This is why I don't do the maths.
Reward me with a shraeye vote maybe? It'll boost your mafia stats!
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I think at this point, if we somehow mislynch (I don't think we will, I am convinced on Shraeye), either one of Insom or I gets NK'ed tonight as a cop, the other has a result to share. With that, we'll be in great shape, right? We have joth and SFS confirmed by cops, +1 more confirmed town and the cop makes the 4 alive tomorrow. And if the living cop catches mafia (that'd have to be me as detective), even better. I see no issues here. Anyone else?
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OK, I'm back, and a quick glance says stuff is happening, so let me read from page 17 on without responding to anything, and see where we are at.
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I think at this point, if we somehow mislynch (I don't think we will, I am convinced on Shraeye), either one of Insom or I gets NK'ed tonight as a cop, the other has a result to share. With that, we'll be in great shape, right? We have joth and SFS confirmed by cops, +1 more confirmed town and the cop makes the 4 alive tomorrow. And if the living cop catches mafia (that'd have to be me as detective), even better. I see no issues here. Anyone else?
Read any of my gazillion recent posts ugggh. No matter what, we will have 4 confirmed townies alive tomorrow. Out of 5 living players. "In great shape" is one way to put it!
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Shraeye, we know you have a situation going IRL, but the longer you hold off the requested claim, the more it seems like you are thinking whether to fakeclaim or not. Typing "a passenger", "vanilla townie" or "the missing cop" doesn't take very long, and would be a nobrainer if that was what you were.
i wasn't going to comment for the sake of expediency, but unless I missed something, there has been no request for, nor agreement on appropriateness, of claiming. I see that some people have already, but if there was a direct request for Shraeye to claim, I missed it. Joth's post expressed a preference for ORDER of claims if we claimed; I did not read it as a request for roleclaims.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the only way scum can win this is if SfS is the detective and has investigated Insomniac or Archetype.
Again, for the sake of expediency, this is short. I am prepared to comment on the above IF IT WON"T BE A BAD THING FOR TOWN, like my premature divulging of info in M4. If someone has some guidance ready for me when I get to page 21, it would be helpful. I'm on p19 now.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the only way scum can win this is if SfS is the detective and has investigated Insomniac or Archetype.
Again, for the sake of expediency, this is short. I am prepared to comment on the above IF IT WON"T BE A BAD THING FOR TOWN, like my premature divulging of info in M4. If someone has some guidance ready for me when I get to page 21, it would be helpful. I'm on p19 now.
If you are not a passenger/vanilla townie, yes you should absolutely tell us!
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I've already figured out that town guarantees a win with at most one mislynch if scum counterclaims either of our cop-figures. Now I'm working on the worst case scenario for "scum claims VT".
I'm trying to figure out what that is, and I need to know if Insomniac's knowledge of passenger/nonpassenger means that other power roles investigate as non-passenger. Because if Insom can only detect alignment, then it's possible that SFS is the other cop and he investigated Archetype or Insom, that would be our worst case scenario as town.
If insom detects VT/not VT then we know that our worst case scenario is 3 known town and 4 VT-claimers. Then they will lynch one claimer, and insom/other investigate again (i'd prefer we coordinate these investigations so that there is no overlap).
If the lynched is scum, WIN.
If one of the scum is under investigation, they could choose not to kill that cop. Day 3 cop reveals investigation and we WIN. So suppose they choose to kill that cop. Then we have 3 conf-town the next day (SFS, whichever cop wasn't killed, his investigatee) versus 2 unknown claimers. Kill one day 3. possible NK, now with town of three people 2 are conftown and we WIN.
If scum was the person we don't lynch or investigate, he has 2 choices in NK. not cop, in which case we start day 3 with 5 people, 4 conftown and a WIN. So suppose he kills a cop. Then we start day 3 with 5 people, 3 are conftown. This can be finished the same as above.
THEREFORE if Insomniac's role returns VT/non-VT town has endgamed mafia.
In my next post I'll investigate the other scary scenario (hopefully I can get mod-conf on Insom's powers before then?)
In all of this mapping, we'd be well served to verify the order in which night actions are resolved. We don't want a cops result undeliverable because he is dead.
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In all of this mapping, we'd be well served to verify the order in which night actions are resolved. We don't want a cops result undeliverable because he is dead.
Shraeye, unless we lynch a cop today, one cop will survive the night to have results. There's no roleblock to stop it.
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In all of this mapping, we'd be well served to verify the order in which night actions are resolved. We don't want a cops result undeliverable because he is dead.
Shraeye, unless we lynch a cop today, one cop will survive the night to have results. There's no roleblock to stop it.
Of course, SFS, not Shraeye.
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SfS, unless you are something else than a VT, we know this:
Insomniac: Cop
ashersky: Cop
SfS: VT
jotheonah: Vt
Left with me, shraeye and Robz, two of us are VT's and the remaining one is the mutineer (who doesn't have any extra kills, extra votes or other extra abilities). Town will win tomorrow no matter what. All that is left to do today is deciding who of me, shraeye and Robz is the mutineer, because if we guess right we get a cool flawless win. I really really think it's shraeye, ashersky agrees with me.
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2) - Insomniac, jotheonah
shraeye (2*) - ashersky, Eevee
Not voting: Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is September 19 at 11 PM EST (~13 hours from now)
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Well, I had hoped for opinions from other folks too, but this seems safe:
I am VT (passenger). I caught the breadcrumb at #100, but thought it was actually too obvious to be real. That may be why it took so long to couple it with Shraeye's rankings. I missed the other crumbs, I don't own a smartphone. However, I can't offer posts to prove that I caught it, and in fact my posts might look like the opposite, given how much I pressed Shraeye for reasoning.
But I can point to the breadcrumb I left so you would know I was VT, though it would likely have only been useful had I been lynched. In post#274, when putting Jo's behavior on a rough scale of anti-town-ness, I stated "It's also probably more anti-town than getting to L-1 and full claiming as VT if you are really VT." If I had somehow gotten to L-1, I would not have claimed, for fear of putting targets on PRs' backs if my lynch aborts.
I guess I'm ready to vote, and when that happens it will be Shraeye. Any last thoughts from anyone?
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Vote Count 2.1
Eevee (2) - Insomniac, jotheonah
shraeye (2*) - ashersky, Eevee
Not voting: Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is September 19 at 11 PM EST (~13 hours from now)
Ummm...what does the * mean there?
Also, joth or insom, get back here and read/comment/vote.
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Ummm...what does the * mean there?
It indicates who will be lynched in case of a tie. I apologize, I thought I included that statement when I unlocked the thread but missed it.
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Oh, I see I wouldn't be the hammer. Hmm.
To all: Is there any advantage to me being or not being a hammer, from the standpoint of analyzing a wagon tomorrow. I suppose we (we=town) win either way.
Are we all in agreement that the choices are Shraeye, Robz, and Eevee? Because I've just thought of something, so stand by.
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Here.
Vote: shraeye.
Now you can hammer or not. I'll see you all next game day.
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Here.
Vote: shraeye.
Now you can hammer or not. I'll see you all next game day.
SFS hammer is scumfree to me. Also, see you in the next game, not game day, after we lynch scum here!
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The other scum is absolutely Robz or eevee.
Hey, just woke up. Let me give a great argument taht will help get people off my back. I knew that insomniac was the andriod, that is documented.
As he signed off he said, if I die target shraeye. BUT...I sat down at the start of the day and within one hour figured out that the only way for mafia to not be endgamed is if there are only 2 conf-townies. So despite Insom's last-minute wishes, I would ahve known that for a win I absolutely HAD to lynch Insom, and then try to weasel out somehow.
It's 100% obvious to me that any scum should have NKed Insom if he partner was lynched. There is no other way to win. I'm not stupid, so I couldn't be scum who made that stupid mistake.
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Vote: Shraeye
I have read peoples comments and he is as good a kill as Eevee in my eyes.
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Jo is so helpful, which is so uncharacteristic it scares me. :)
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THREAD LOCKED
Final Day 2 Vote Count
shraeye (4) - ashersky, Eevee, jotheonah, Insomniac
Not voting: Robz888, shraeye, SwitchedFromStarcraft
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"It's shraeye," declared ashersky, Eevee, jotheonah, and Insomniac. Robz888 and SwitchedFromStarcraft shrugged as the four marched shraeye past them down the hall to the airlock. With a whoosh, shraeye's body joined Captain_Frisk and Voltaire's, floating outside the bridge window.
Shraeye, the passenger, has been lynched.
Night actions are due in 12 hours, at 10:30 PM EST.
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As everyone filed down the hallway back to the bridge, their grim task complete, the lights and gravity abruptly gave out again. After a short scream, both returned. A body fell to the floor with a thud, driving the knife further into the victim's back.
Ashersky, the detective, has been killed.
Day 3 has begun.
Not voting: Eevee, Insomniac, jotheonah, Robz888, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is September 20 at 1 PM EST (~24 hours from now).
THREAD UNLOCKED
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I investigated Eevee he is town.
Vote: Robz
gg everyone.
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Also just wanted to say...
CF is ALWAYS scum.
Robz is scum if he lives past night 1!
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Well, I'm not scum. So if there's nobody else left, somebody lied. Although can't imagine why or how they got away with it.
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Vote: Robz888
Well played though. Frealz.
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Alright, well it fall's to tomorrow's town to sort this out then. We probably still win.
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Well, I'm not scum. So if there's nobody else left, somebody lied. Although can't imagine why or how they got away with it.
There isn't Robz the people alive are
jotheonah - confirmed town by ash who is confirmed cop
Insomniac - claimed android couldn't be counter claimed
SFS - confirmed town by me
Eevee - confirmed town by me
Robz - uninvestigated.
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I have to ask though Robz, why didn't you switch the lynch to jo on day 1, you woulda been scummy as hell but your team woulda been in a much better position, and you were on at deadline.
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Alright, well it fall's to tomorrow's town to sort this out then. We probably still win.
Will we? If you're telling the truth than none of the other town except myself can be trusted. But there's no possible way for it to be anyone but you, barring blatantly bad play from a town player (i.e. someone else is the Android and isn't counter-claiming for some reason).
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I have to ask though Robz, why didn't you switch the lynch to jo on day 1, you woulda been scummy as hell but your team woulda been in a much better position, and you were on at deadline.
Because I wanted to try out random, and hey, it worked! We killed scum. Again, I have no idea how this could be that everyone is cleared but me, as I am not scum. No idea how/who is lying.
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Unfortunately I'm late for a meeting. We can discuss it more later if you guys don't kill me! But I kind of think you will. Oh well.
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SFS/Eevee, can one of you get in here and hammer.
Robz is actually starting to convince me he's town, despite that it's mathematically impossible.
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Unfortunately I'm late for a meeting. We can discuss it more later if you guys don't kill me! But I kind of think you will. Oh well.
We have to. I checked my PMs to be sure I didn't missread my cop results, and it turns out I didn't so you HAVE to be the mafia. Especially since everyone alive had a chance to counterclaim me (I wouldn't have fakeclaimed as scum its an instant loss)
To be fair Robz I did think it was least likely to be you because you could have moved the lynch to Jo and didn't
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Ok, newbish question, but I'm just being thorough. Is it possible that Insomniac false claimed, and the lack of a counterclaim is explained by the lack of a doctor (i.e., someone doesn't want to put a target on their own back)?
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Ok, newbish question, but I'm just being thorough. Is it possible that Insomniac false claimed, and the lack of a counterclaim is explained by the lack of a doctor (i.e., someone doesn't want to put a target on their own back)?
No, if I fakeclaimed the android should have immediately claimed and you lynch one of us, if the game doesn't end you lynch the other, it is terrible play for someone to not counter-claim if I was lying.
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Ok, newbish question, but I'm just being thorough. Is it possible that Insomniac false claimed, and the lack of a counterclaim is explained by the lack of a doctor (i.e., someone doesn't want to put a target on their own back)?
No, if I fakeclaimed the android should have immediately claimed and you lynch one of us, if the game doesn't end you lynch the other, it is terrible play for someone to not counter-claim if I was lying.
To be more clear the android should be more than willing to be lynched to get the mafia lynched for sure.
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Ok, newbish question, but I'm just being thorough. Is it possible that Insomniac false claimed, and the lack of a counterclaim is explained by the lack of a doctor (i.e., someone doesn't want to put a target on their own back)?
SFS if you're the android you need to tell us right now.
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SFS/Eevee, can one of you get in here and hammer.
Robz is actually starting to convince me he's town, despite that it's mathematically impossible.
See, it's comments like this that really confuse me Jo, despite my belief that the first clause is you just being arch.
On the other hand, you saved me from voting from Shraeye, so that kept me from being wrong yet again. I had the post to hammer Shraeye typed immediately after 511, pressed send, and decided (for once) to honor the forum warning about new posts. I look back, and there is 512, with the clear (to me anyway) message that "I'm gonna vote, so you can hammer, but I really don't think Shraeye is it". Why else would you think there would be another game day?
@all - I need someone other than Insomniac to point me to the post where Ash cleared Jo. Insomniac asserts that clearing in #525. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I can't find it.
So now I have to look at Insomniac dropping the hammer. Which is cool if he's the android, but what if he's not the android. He could have reported that I'm town (and convinced me that he was the android) simply because he read me correctly, based on my previous play. I (unfortunately) think I'm pretty easy to read as town, because I obviously don't ever worry about what I say. (I supported Jo's random lynch idea and took no heat for it, though the lack of heat may be because I said in ZM1 that I would support Random Lynch). And for the record, if I play again, I'm definitely supporting random lynch, based on results.
PPE: Jo - after reading this post you will know I am unhappy with you, but no, I'm not the android. I wouldn't screw up that badly. But it's you specifically that started me down this analysis, so just bear with me. I am actually trying to learn and get better, and my "screwup" in M4 is looming large in every game I play.
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So SFS, here's the problem: It's an open set-up. We know there's an android. If it isn't insomniac, it's someone else. It's not Archetype, ashersky, or shraeye - they're all dead and flipped. It's not me and it's not you. Whoever it is, they're town and there's no reason for them not to have counterclaimed insomniac.
Ergo, Insom. is the android.
Ergo, by PoE Robz HAS to be scum.
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Don't know when I will have more time to post.
I am the Dectective. I investigated Joth last night, and confirm he is not a mutineer. I wanted to rule him out to be sure he and Frisk hadn't run an elaborate scheme, plus his generally odd behavior on D1.
Also, knowing he is town, it made examining the wagons a lot easier. I am still fully on the Shraeye lynch. I believe Frisk's partner was on joth's wagon. If I am wrong, and either get lynched or NKed, it would have to be Robz or Eevee, unless Insom fake claimed. As I mentioned in my first D2 post, Insom was my #1 suspect before his claim.
No matter what, I believe we have this game won as town. Just a matter of time.
Above is ash clearing jo
Switched think about what your saying, if I'm town there is no reason for me to lie and say I'm the android. If I'm mafia then I WILL be counter-claimed by the real android which means that either you lynch me first and win, or you lynch him first and then me and I still lose.
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Don't know when I will have more time to post.
I am the Dectective. I investigated Joth last night, and confirm he is not a mutineer. I wanted to rule him out to be sure he and Frisk hadn't run an elaborate scheme, plus his generally odd behavior on D1.
Also, knowing he is town, it made examining the wagons a lot easier. I am still fully on the Shraeye lynch. I believe Frisk's partner was on joth's wagon. If I am wrong, and either get lynched or NKed, it would have to be Robz or Eevee, unless Insom fake claimed. As I mentioned in my first D2 post, Insom was my #1 suspect before his claim.
No matter what, I believe we have this game won as town. Just a matter of time.
Above is ash clearing jo
Switched think about what your saying, if I'm town there is no reason for me to lie and say I'm the android. If I'm mafia then I WILL be counter-claimed by the real android which means that either you lynch me first and win, or you lynch him first and then me and I still lose.
Got it. Just being thorough. Plus remember, I've never gotten to see mafia squirm at end-game, so I didn't know what to think of Robz "I got no explanations" posts.
VOTE: ROBZ
Jo, I think I'd really enjoy playing a game with you where you are just really straightforward in your play, though I acknowledge that your constant (to me) mixing it up probably serves you well for those times when you are scum.
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Also, SFS, Eevee will probably hammer when he wakes up (he's on Finnish time).
This is more or less how I expect scum Robz to be behaving. He's like me or Insom in terms of having an ain't-over-til-it's-over playstyle. In the absence of any remotely plausible lie that would clear him, he's resorting to an "I don't know what's up but I'm town" act. He's good at it - this surprises me not at all; Robz has always been good at manipulating the subtleties of tone.
This is a clear-cut case of needing to trust facts over reads, though, and there is simply no way I can imagine that the facts are lying to us.
Re: yesterday and shraeye. I wasn't sure he was mafia. Nor was I sure he wasn't. But it didn't matter since, as Eevee pointed out, the town could guarantee a win anyway.
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Sorry Voltaire
VOTE:ROBZ
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Did I win?! Did I win?! Did I win?!
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Don't know when I will have more time to post.
I am the Dectective. I investigated Joth last night, and confirm he is not a mutineer. I wanted to rule him out to be sure he and Frisk hadn't run an elaborate scheme, plus his generally odd behavior on D1.
Also, knowing he is town, it made examining the wagons a lot easier. I am still fully on the Shraeye lynch. I believe Frisk's partner was on joth's wagon. If I am wrong, and either get lynched or NKed, it would have to be Robz or Eevee, unless Insom fake claimed. As I mentioned in my first D2 post, Insom was my #1 suspect before his claim.
No matter what, I believe we have this game won as town. Just a matter of time.
Above is ash clearing jo
Switched think about what your saying, if I'm town there is no reason for me to lie and say I'm the android. If I'm mafia then I WILL be counter-claimed by the real android which means that either you lynch me first and win, or you lynch him first and then me and I still lose.
Got it. Just being thorough. Plus remember, I've never gotten to see mafia squirm at end-game, so I didn't know what to think of Robz "I got no explanations" posts.
VOTE: ROBZ
Jo, I think I'd really enjoy playing a game with you where you are just really straightforward in your play, though I acknowledge that your constant (to me) mixing it up probably serves you well for those times when you are scum.
This is about as straightforward as I get, really. A little levity here and there but mostly I say what I mean. You really don't want to be obvtown, anyway. Scum shoot obvtown.
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Yeah, straightforward wasnt the word I wanted. Serious is a better word.
I do know this, if I'm ever in the same town as you (where ever that is), I'm buying you the beer of your choice.
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Voltaire - Come in here and make it official that I wasn't wrong.
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You weren't wrong SFS. We did it in 3 days! New Town Record!
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So Robz was first on Frisk's wagon. If I were Robz I might have pointed that out in one of the "I don't know how or why posts" Why didn't Robz hammer Jo instead of letting Frisk die? Too obvious?
And Ash's feeling that Frisk's partner was on Jo's wagon was wrong.
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Honestly the fact that Robz could have hammered Frisk is still confusing to me.
It's like Robz put his team into a can't win scenario because of what the cops would be able to do. If he had moved the lynch to jo when jo flipped town he woulda been scummy as all stink but not necessarily enough to lynch him and the scum definetly wouldn't have been as bad off so I'm really looking forward to Robz theory later. Maybe he didn't expect the town to see a guaranteed win out of cops mass claiming on day 2?
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To paraphase somebody's signature, Robz should have the decency to resign rather than go on being that scummy. ;D
Sorry, I'm just giddy with relief.
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Robz, come tell us what we already know.
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To paraphase somebody's signature, Robz should have the decency to resign rather than go on being that scummy. ;D
Sorry, I'm just giddy with relief.
Jo is correct though, Robz, Jo, and myself will play a game until it is clear there is no way to lose every game I've been scum when I'm found out I continue trying to convince people I'm town no matter how damning the evidence. BMV although long is a perfect example of this (day 2 i was obvtown, day 3 i was obvscum), RMM1 is an alright shorter example if you skip to the day I got lynched (not sure what day that was off the top of my head though)
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Yuma, Galzria, and theorel are however people I have seen self-hammer, though I can't recall off the top of my head if Galz has done it as scum, the other 2 definetly have. I have self voted as scum but only in situations where it was beneficial to my team (RMM1 where eHal gave me a really long twilight >:() and in BMV when I self voted it was because I knew I was unlynchable.
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To paraphase somebody's signature, Robz should have the decency to resign rather than go on being that scummy. ;D
I didn't mean resign as in give up (then). I would never expect someone to give up.
What I meant was, the vote is irreversible, so Robz should show up now and tell us (resign) rather that continue being "in play" since we know he's scum.
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'Cause Voltaire is apparently unavailable. :-[
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Robz took off too though I think he just is online all the time because of a phone or not closing the DS tab or something.
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THREAD LOCKED
Sure, hammer while the mod is at lunch. :P
FINAL DAY 3 VOTE COUNT
Robz888 (3) - Insomniac, jotheonah, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Not voting - Eevee, Robz888
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THREAD UNLOCKED
"Hey Robz888," said SwitchedFromStarcraft.
"Why do you have that gun pointed at me?" asked Robz888.
"Because you're the one who helped Captain_Frisk kill Captain Voltaire," replied SwitchedFromStarcraft. "Right?" he asked, turning to Insomniac. Insomniac nodded.
SwitchedFromStarcraft pulled the trigger.
Robz888, the mutineer, has been lynched.
TOWN WINS
Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/fViVeAP2iFr
Spectator QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/Z9hvg6r59bnQ
Night Actions (not that there will be any surprise)
NIGHT ONE ACTIONS
Ashersky investigates jotheonah (Not Mutineer)
Insomniac investigates SwitchedFromStarcraft (Passenger)
Archetype investigates shraeye (Not Alien)
Robz888 kills Archetype
NIGHT TWO ACTIONS
Ashersky investigates Eevee (Not Mutineer)
Insomniac investigates Eevee (Passenger)
Robz888 kills ashersky
Thanks for playing, all! I learned a lot from this game, both in mafia theory, game design, and moderator policy. I hope you all had fun too.
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So I still really don't get why Robz didn't switch lynch, but I will say that the reason asher died last night and not me is because Robz has a long standing agreement to never NK me as scum.
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Neither RobZ nor I saw bussing me as definite game over for town. Probably because we're bad at life.
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it's a rough set up for scum with so many cops running around. Super bad luck that random hit you, Frisk. I'm really not sure whether I will continue to advocate for random lynch in the future, but if I do I'll point to this game and it'll be super obnoxious.
Good game, guys.
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had fun, thanks voltaire! sad i missed getting on the robz-wagon. it feels town was propably a little overpowered in this setup?
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Thanks Volt! It was fun, and you did a great job.
I was absolutely convinced of Shraeye's scumminess. Sorry, man.
So I gotta know--how did Robz manipulate the random lynch to fall on Frisk? Did he just time it right? Force whatever number came up to match something in his name?
And I agree, why didn't he save his partner at the end of D1? Would have had a better shot at winning with 2 alive on D2...
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Also - random lynch didn't get me... the only person who voted randomly was my scum buddy.
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I think the following should be reflected on and discussed before ZM3 launches (Insomniac, this is looking at you in particular as mod )
Hey Galz,
Wanted to ask you about what you posted in the QT:
Awww, Frisky. If it's any comfort, I think under normal deadline rules, Joth would've been the one to receive a hammer vote, not you.
What are the "normal deadline rules" you refer to? I ask this out of a desire to figure out what the correct precedent for ZM games should be. I have made a ruling in this game that will stay in effect, but if it's not the ideal one, I want to figure out what is correct for future games. You're one of the "elder minds," so I figured I'd consult. ;)
Thanks,
V
Well, by "normal deadline rules" I simply meant exactly that:
In a normal game, we rarely (only ever once) no-lynch D1. Thus I think in this situation, if a lynch were to occur under "normal circumstances" (Someone must get to Half+1) Joth was the most likely to receive that vote. Basically, Frisk got lynched by the system.
However, I'm not sure that's a bad thing in ZM games... insofar as I think that a lynch should always occur. Thus if a Majority isn't reached, I think a Plurality is the next best thing. The question ultimately is how to deal with ties then. One of the strongest weapons Scum have is that it is HARD to lynch them. With two players (generally) unwilling to vote, it takes 5 of 7 at game start, 4 of 5 day 2, and 3 of 3 day 3 (assuming straight town day and night kills). It's SUPPOSED to favor scum this way, because as the game progresses, town learns solid facts that reveal who the scum are (or might be).
Straight up taking away this power of consensus lynch puts a lot of power in the hands of town. They no longer need to have so many of their fellow teammates agree. It vastly changes the nature of the game.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the best solution is. It may be to simply weaken town by only giving them a single PR. Or it may be to determine a better system than "first to plurality gets lynched". It's an interesting question though. I DO think that for ZM games we need a system that absolutely lynches every day. We just need to make sure it stays balanced for scum.
The ZM games seem popular, so I'm sure another will start up again quickly after the conclusion of this one, but I think this is a question that we should pose to the community as a whole before the launch of that game. My initial thought is to leave things the way they are, but weaken the town by only giving them 1 PR. I'm not sure if that'll balance out enough though, or even over balance by putting to much power back into the hands of Scum (although I don't think that it would).
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had fun, thanks voltaire! sad i missed getting on the robz-wagon. it feels town was propably a little overpowered in this setup?
In my opinion, only if they hit scum D1. Otherwise, I think this setup mostly works. That said, the game should be balanced if that happens, so the setup definitely needs tweaked. However, scum did make some strategic errors (not killing Insomniac after his D1 softclaims, etc.)
Your achievement has been immortalized in the thread title. Enjoy!
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Also - random lynch didn't get me... the only person who voted randomly was my scum buddy.
This.
I too got to apologize for shraeye and others for ruining our flawless victory.
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As I said in the speccy threa, the reason I think the Day 1 lynch worked so well for Town was because of the plurality lynch rule.
We all thought going into this game that quick days favor scum. And they do. But on the flip side, plurality lynch favors town because they don't have to marshal themselves so strongly in order to overcome scum objections and lynch scum. In a plurality lynch world, scum who spread their votes around run into trouble.
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So I still really don't get why Robz didn't switch lynch, but I will say that the reason asher died last night and not me is because Robz has a long standing agreement to never NK me as scum.
Here's why. He switches for the "hammer" and both cops will investigate him. He shows scum so we lynch him. then realize that he jumped off of Frisk last minute and frisk dies the next day.
Robz's only chance was to kill Insom in the night. May have worked pretty good too, as suspicion would have inevitably fell on me haaaard. So only 2 conf-town and one more basically guaranteed mislynch. Then Robz's chances weren't so bad.
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Also - random lynch didn't get me... the only person who voted randomly was my scum buddy.
So that wasn't planned? That's why I felt your buddy had to be on the other wagon...unless you two had somehow planned the faux-random lynch, I just didn't see your buddy starting and staying on your wagon the whole day.
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Galz, I think plurality lynch is fine, look at ZM1 you won it handidly, rarely if ever is the plurality a rule normally players are aware of the deadline. The problem in this game was that there were way too many cops. I don't think plurality favours town that much more than scum but I am intending to give the town much less power in ZM3 than here. I balanced ZM1 the same way I balanced M3 as if it were a normal mafia game, I did give the town higher than usual chance of getting 2 roles, but I made the cop less likely to show up because cops tend to be op.
As for your not playing until we lynch lurkers I have to disagree. I think we should be more open to lynching lurkers but there is information to be gained from lynching someone who is active, while we know for a fact town is likely to lurk as much as scum.
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
I didn't I force pushed my vote through. I didn't think you were scum but I didnt think people were gonna go to Eevee who was my number 1 suspect, and I was excited to have an early town victory.
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
I didn't I force pushed my vote through. I didn't think you were scum but I didnt think people were gonna go to Eevee who was my number 1 suspect, and I was excited to have an early town victory.
I figured. That's the exact attitude that really frustrated me; I'm sure I'll get over it soon. I know that it was exciting to get town win, and I really wanted to share in that. But a flawless victory would have been sooooo sweet. Hammering someone you don't suspect is always a poopy play.
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Also Galz I think the lurker thing is more of an issue in large games, and I can't talk about one game its an issue in but I will say its soo damn large. Blitz mafia games I don't think you really CAN lurk in and hey we repeatedly called out people for lurking for...3 hours...:P Anyways I don't think you should let your lurker problem stop you from playing ZM
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
I didn't I force pushed my vote through. I didn't think you were scum but I didnt think people were gonna go to Eevee who was my number 1 suspect, and I was excited to have an early town victory.
I figured. That's the exact attitude that really frustrated me; I'm sure I'll get over it soon. I know that it was exciting to get town win, and I really wanted to share in that. But a flawless victory would have been sooooo sweet. Hammering someone you don't suspect is always a poopy play.
But there is NO way we would have come to Robz day 2, I was treating him as conf town.
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I wasn't treating him as conf-town. I had seen this possibility, so had Robz in the back of my head. We may have falsely ended up on Eevee, but "Robz lynch impossible" is still a crappy excuse for "so I lynched someone I didn't think was scummy".
Scum-Robz couldn't really switch off Frisk last minute without catching enough heat to warrent an investigation by our cops.
So I still really don't get why Robz didn't switch lynch, but I will say that the reason asher died last night and not me is because Robz has a long standing agreement to never NK me as scum.
Here's why. He switches for the "hammer" and both cops will investigate him. He shows scum so we lynch him. then realize that he jumped off of Frisk last minute and frisk dies the next day.
Robz's only chance was to kill Insom in the night. May have worked pretty good too, as suspicion would have inevitably fell on me haaaard. So only 2 conf-town and one more basically guaranteed mislynch. Then Robz's chances weren't so bad.
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but it could just as easily have been Frisk was town, and as cop I woulda served that wine to EVERYONE after Robz flipped scum.
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Nah I think I would have convinced people to vote for Robz over me, not sure how Ins could see me as scum after my day2 play!? Don't know if I could have been convinced to go after Robz though, him not killing Ins is so very weird..
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But I would like to divert that discussion to plurality.
How do people feel about it if ZM is balanced like a normal game (ZM1) I don't think plurality killed scum here I think lynching scum day 1 to know which cops were good and bad was huge and that having 2 good cops was too much.
To Galz: GO SIGN UP FOR ZM3 ALREADY, You know you want to stop being butt hurt about lurking, besides maybe you can push a lurker lynch in ZM3 if there are any (doubt it)
To Frisk: You must think I'm the meanest mafia player lol, apparently Im a jerk in 8 and a jerk here.
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One idea to divert ties that could work is that. IF there is a tie at deadline, the day goes into overtime. Votes are cleared.
Everyone pm's the mod one of the names in the tie to vote for that person, the person with the most votes this way is lynched. In the result of that being in a tie (because something caused an even number of players in the game) no lynch occurs.
The results of the vote are made public after, but are kept quiet before hand so that people don't go well the first 3 here voted for x so I should too.
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One idea to divert ties that could work is that. IF there is a tie at deadline, the day goes into overtime. Votes are cleared.
Everyone pm's the mod one of the names in the tie to vote for that person, the person with the most votes this way is lynched. In the result of that being in a tie (because something caused an even number of players in the game) no lynch occurs.
The results of the vote are made public after, but are kept quiet before hand so that people don't go well the first 3 here voted for x so I should too.
That's not a bad idea.
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it's a rough set up for scum with so many cops running around. Super bad luck that random hit you, Frisk. I'm really not sure whether I will continue to advocate for random lynch in the future, but if I do I'll point to this game and it'll be super obnoxious.
Good game, guys.
You wont have to in the next one, if you don't want to, 'cause I'm gonna.
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Galz you still haven't inned for ZM3...not impressed.
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
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it's a rough set up for scum with so many cops running around. Super bad luck that random hit you, Frisk. I'm really not sure whether I will continue to advocate for random lynch in the future, but if I do I'll point to this game and it'll be super obnoxious.
Good game, guys.
You wont have to in the next one, if you don't want to, 'cause I'm gonna.
Soooo your gonna join ZM3!?
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
I didn't I force pushed my vote through. I didn't think you were scum but I didnt think people were gonna go to Eevee who was my number 1 suspect, and I was excited to have an early town victory.
Did you read my posts late, to Jo? If Insom hadn't hammered you, I was (post was actually typed AND sent), and I read your defense. It would not have stopped me, and I would have been just as wrong as Insom. But I'm always wrong.
I figured. That's the exact attitude that really frustrated me; I'm sure I'll get over it soon. I know that it was exciting to get town win, and I really wanted to share in that. But a flawless victory would have been sooooo sweet. Hammering someone you don't suspect is always a poopy play.
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
That was really the plan. Busing Frisk worked in MVIII, after all! But here it turned out to be really bad, because of the Cops. I actually offed one of them on a mostly purely random guess, of course I think that was the worst one to kill--quite possibly it would have been better to kill a Passenger instead of the Cop who could cause beneficial confusion.
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LOL, for the third time. Will repost.
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Yeah, turns out the setup was unbalanced, and the game turned out to take the exact route to make the big problem huge.
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
That was really the plan. Busing Frisk worked in MVIII, after all! But here it turned out to be really bad, because of the Cops. I actually offed one of them on a mostly purely random guess, of course I think that was the worst one to kill--quite possibly it would have been better to kill a Passenger instead of the Cop who could cause beneficial confusion.
Well you obviously didn't note my huge massive crumbs, or didn't kill me because you've promised to never NK me as scum :P. But the crack cop knew he was useless after you flipped frisk so there was no confusion to be had.
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I'm probably going to be bitter about that adrenaline-lynch y'all put on me for a bit. It was 4 townies. I can see wanting to lynch me based on shown scumminess, that's a natural reaction. But give me a moment to explain myself, I wasn't given that. I'm also wondering if Insom even read my defense before hammering. Basically I thought I had proven that only an insane shraeye would have not killed insom. Endgamed is always worse than catching suspicion, right?
I didn't I force pushed my vote through. I didn't think you were scum but I didnt think people were gonna go to Eevee who was my number 1 suspect, and I was excited to have an early town victory.
I figured. That's the exact attitude that really frustrated me; I'm sure I'll get over it soon. I know that it was exciting to get town win, and I really wanted to share in that. But a flawless victory would have been sooooo sweet. Hammering someone you don't suspect is always a poopy play.
Shraeye: Did you read my posts late, to Jo? If Insom hadn't hammered you, I was (post was actually typed AND sent), and I read your defense. It would not have stopped me, and I would have been just as wrong as Insom. But I'm always wrong.
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@Insom, man yeah those crumbs were risky business. They worked out really well for us this time, but idk.
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@Insom, man yeah those crumbs were risky business. They worked out really well for us this time, but idk.
I know some people aren't as good at finding crumbs and this was my first normalish game (barring ongoing games) as a town power role. So I wanted to breadcrumb it hard.
And I mean Eevee and Robz at least didn't notice it, I don't think Frisk did either. I only saw Shaereye and you say you caught it actually so it's good to see who catches crumbs and who doesn't.
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
That was really the plan. Busing Frisk worked in MVIII, after all! But here it turned out to be really bad, because of the Cops. I actually offed one of them on a mostly purely random guess, of course I think that was the worst one to kill--quite possibly it would have been better to kill a Passenger instead of the Cop who could cause beneficial confusion.
Well you obviously didn't note my huge massive crumbs, or didn't kill me because you've promised to never NK me as scum :P. But the crack cop knew he was useless after you flipped frisk so there was no confusion to be had.
Oh I noticed it, but it was so stupidly, egregiously obvious that I didn't believe it. I thought you were trying to lure me into killing you rather than the real Android. I've learned my lesson. When Insomniac breadcrumbs, he really means it!
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@Insom, man yeah those crumbs were risky business. They worked out really well for us this time, but idk.
I know some people aren't as good at finding crumbs and this was my first normalish game (barring ongoing games) as a town power role. So I wanted to breadcrumb it hard.
And I mean Eevee and Robz at least didn't notice it, I don't think Frisk did either. I only saw Shaereye and you say you caught it actually so it's good to see who catches crumbs and who doesn't.
I remember reading the "I have no feelings" crumb and thinking "man does Insomniac tell WEIRD jokes", so clearly I'm not the brightest when it comes to these things..
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
That was really the plan. Busing Frisk worked in MVIII, after all! But here it turned out to be really bad, because of the Cops. I actually offed one of them on a mostly purely random guess, of course I think that was the worst one to kill--quite possibly it would have been better to kill a Passenger instead of the Cop who could cause beneficial confusion.
Well you obviously didn't note my huge massive crumbs, or didn't kill me because you've promised to never NK me as scum :P. But the crack cop knew he was useless after you flipped frisk so there was no confusion to be had.
Oh I noticed it, but it was so stupidly, egregiously obvious that I didn't believe it. I thought you were trying to lure me into killing you rather than the real Android. I've learned my lesson. When Insomniac breadcrumbs, he really means it!
Well In this game I saw the danger of crumbing it, but there was the WIFOM for mafia of that, and also if I died it wasn't a huge disaster because we would have still had 1 real cop and an IC
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Hi guys!
Well, that sucked. No, I didn't manipulate the outcome of random. It came out Frisk. I made the decision then to push the random lynch, get Frisk killed, and assumed no one would ever suspect me again. Why not try it out?
Unfortunately, there were just too many cops in this setup, I think. Perhaps even without the lynch of Frisk Day 1.
I think that 2 cops is too many even 1 can be too many. Frisk flipping day 1 just cursed you. I will say you were super low on my suspicion list because I really did suspect that you would have switched it to jo as scum.
That was really the plan. Busing Frisk worked in MVIII, after all! But here it turned out to be really bad, because of the Cops. I actually offed one of them on a mostly purely random guess, of course I think that was the worst one to kill--quite possibly it would have been better to kill a Passenger instead of the Cop who could cause beneficial confusion.
Well you obviously didn't note my huge massive crumbs, or didn't kill me because you've promised to never NK me as scum :P. But the crack cop knew he was useless after you flipped frisk so there was no confusion to be had.
Oh I noticed it, but it was so stupidly, egregiously obvious that I didn't believe it. I thought you were trying to lure me into killing you rather than the real Android. I've learned my lesson. When Insomniac breadcrumbs, he really means it!
Well In this game I saw the danger of crumbing it, but there was the WIFOM for mafia of that, and also if I died it wasn't a huge disaster because we would have still had 1 real cop and an IC
Well, I have to hand it to you, you did successfully WIFOM me there.
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On the subject of tie votes at deadlines:
I PM'ed Voltaire during the thread lock end of D1, because I was surprised Frisk died. I was working under the "all time high number of votes" interpretation of the tie-breaking rule, rather than the "snapshot" version. His post in-thread differentiating those two notions only made me aware that there were two ways to look at it, but did not allow me to trace it for myself. I want to be clear that I'm completely comfortable with the ruling, AND Voltaire's explanation to me, AND the consummate grace with which he handled my inquiry. I am particularly impressed that he was wise enough not to change anything midstream. As we say in poker, the floorman's decision is final.
I would like to suggest that, if we keep the mechanism that currently in place (and there is already discussion that we may not), the specifics of the mechanism should be codified in a clear and unambiguous way, so that all players are on a level playing field regarding exactly what triggers the taking of the "snapshot" that is applicable in breaking ties.
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@Insom, man yeah those crumbs were risky business. They worked out really well for us this time, but idk.
I know some people aren't as good at finding crumbs and this was my first normalish game (barring ongoing games) as a town power role. So I wanted to breadcrumb it hard.
And I mean Eevee and Robz at least didn't notice it, I don't think Frisk did either. I only saw Shaereye and you say you caught it actually so it's good to see who catches crumbs and who doesn't.
I caught it, but wondered if it was too obvious to be real.
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On the subject of tie votes at deadlines:
I PM'ed Voltaire during the thread lock end of D1, because I was surprised Frisk died. I was working under the "all time high number of votes" interpretation of the tie-breaking rule, rather than the "snapshot" version. His post in-thread differentiating those two notions only made me aware that there were two ways to look at it, but did not allow me to trace it for myself. I want to be clear that I'm completely comfortable with the ruling, AND Voltaire's explanation to me, AND the consummate grace with which he handled my inquiry. I am particularly impressed that he was wise enough not to change anything midstream. As we say in poker, the floorman's decision is final.
I would like to suggest that, if we keep the mechanism that currently in place (and there is already discussion that we may not), the specifics of the mechanism should be codified in a clear and unambiguous way, so that all players are on a level playing field regarding exactly what triggers the taking of the "snapshot" that is applicable in breaking ties.
Voltaire ran it the same way I would have.
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Query: would this setup have been better with:
1) 3 cops, 3 VT, 3 scum; or
2) 2 cops, 5 VT, 2 scum?
#2 removes the Android. Just one cop of each flavor (so, one is a quack).
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Shraeye - I hope that you are the kind of person that knows that what happens in the game is just the game playing out, but I do need to apologize for something I did without realizing until later how disrespectful it was.
Me finding your name difficult to type at first was no excuse for changing it outright, when it could have just been shortened (to Shra for instance), or modified to something like SHR. Purposefully choosing a version that was an outright misspelling seems (now) like an affront that I would never have intentionally inflicted. When I realized how rude it may have seemed, I changed back to the correct spelling. I'm really sorry.
Edited to remove an orphan paren.
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Query: would this setup have been better with:
1) 3 cops, 3 VT, 3 scum; or
2) 2 cops, 5 VT, 2 scum?
#2 removes the Android. Just one cop of each flavor (so, one is a quack).
I'd think 2. 1 has the possibility of lylo D2.
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Galz you still haven't inned for ZM3...not impressed.
I'm rather unimpressive.
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Query: would this setup have been better with:
1) 3 cops, 3 VT, 3 scum; or
2) 2 cops, 5 VT, 2 scum?
#2 removes the Android. Just one cop of each flavor (so, one is a quack).
I'd think 2. 1 has the possibility of lylo D2.
Another potential way to balance this (maybe) is to give scum a PR, like usual.
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On the subject of tie votes at deadlines:
I PM'ed Voltaire during the thread lock end of D1, because I was surprised Frisk died. I was working under the "all time high number of votes" interpretation of the tie-breaking rule, rather than the "snapshot" version. His post in-thread differentiating those two notions only made me aware that there were two ways to look at it, but did not allow me to trace it for myself. I want to be clear that I'm completely comfortable with the ruling, AND Voltaire's explanation to me, AND the consummate grace with which he handled my inquiry. I am particularly impressed that he was wise enough not to change anything midstream. As we say in poker, the floorman's decision is final.
I would like to suggest that, if we keep the mechanism that currently in place (and there is already discussion that we may not), the specifics of the mechanism should be codified in a clear and unambiguous way, so that all players are on a level playing field regarding exactly what triggers the taking of the "snapshot" that is applicable in breaking ties.
Voltaire ran it the same way I would have.
Yes, and he let me know that. :) Again my issue is not at all related to what happened (how could I not be thrilled, I was town). Please, please know that. Voltaire certainly does, I've made it clear to him.
I simply have a strong desire for no one else to be in the position I was in, which was to operate under the "all time high" interpretation. Under such an interpretation, Jo was in the unenviable position of lynching himself simply by changing his vote to anyone else but the person it was on at the time. Jo was the very first person (among Jo, Frisk) to 3 votes.
Edited to supply the word "thrilled".
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Also, Insomniac, odd thing - but I don't think I've ever once thought that a post of yours came across snarky. O.o
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Also, Insomniac, odd thing - but I don't think I've ever once thought that a post of yours came across snarky. O.o
That actually means a lot, I've really tried to not be snarky in general, I try to debate with people when I 'argue' because it's just a game and theres no point in hurting people's feelings over it or getting hurt by it IMO
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Also, Insomniac, odd thing - but I don't think I've ever once thought that a post of yours came across snarky. O.o
Frisk is the one who has always seemed snarky to me...
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Shraeye - I hope that you are the kind of person that knows that what happens in the game is just the game playing out, but I do need to apologize for something I did without realizing until later how disrespectful it was.
Me finding your name difficult to type at first was no excuse for changing it outright, when it could have just been shortened (to Shra for instance), or modified to something like SHR. Purposefully choosing a version that was an outright misspelling seems (now) like an affront that I would never have intentionally inflicted. When I realized how rude it may have seemed, I changed back to the correct spelling. I'm really sorry.
Edited to remove an orphan paren.
Yeah, when I'm shorthanding my name, I spell it as shray. But it's been spelled every which way in the past. Schray, shraye, shraey, shrae. None of those bother me much. Once somebody (can't remember who) typed shar. That is annoying.
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I call this method of tie dispute the Galz.
"In the event of a tie, neither player will be lynched, the player who has the lowest vote count for the day will be lynched instead."
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I call this method of tie dispute the Galz.
"In the event of a tie, neither player will be lynched, the player who has the lowest vote count for the day will be lynched instead."
Me likey.
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I call this method of tie dispute the Galz.
"In the event of a tie, neither player will be lynched, the player who has the lowest vote count for the day will be lynched instead."
But what if that's a tie, too?
*bum-bum-BUM*
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I call this method of tie dispute the Galz.
"In the event of a tie, neither player will be lynched, the player who has the lowest vote count for the day will be lynched instead."
But what if that's a tie, too?
*bum-bum-BUM*
Double lynch.
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I call this method of tie dispute the Galz.
"In the event of a tie, neither player will be lynched, the player who has the lowest vote count for the day will be lynched instead."
But what if that's a tie, too?
*bum-bum-BUM*
Double lynch.
I'm always up for 2 lunches.
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So who was the MVP?
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So who was the MVP?
The system?
If not, then I'm giving it to Insomniac for getting away with softclaiming Android D1, and for finding the scumpair D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4667.msg107510#msg107510), even if he didn't know it. SfS pointed this out, sarcastically. Little did he know...
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Haha I forgot about that post too
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Dude I was so obviously MVP. I was responsible for Robz voting Frisk (by suggesting random) and I voted Frisk. So I was behind 2/3 of the Day 1 scum lynch that clinched the game.
On an unrelated note, I used to be annoyed by "jo" and "joth" but nowadays the only shortening of my forum name that bugs me is "Jonah" (my real name). I just find it jarring to see it used here. I quite like "Joth."
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Should there be a place where we all decide what we are willing to be called? Both names and pronouns?
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Dude I was so obviously MVP. I was responsible for Robz voting Frisk (by suggesting random) and I voted Frisk. So I was behind 2/3 of the Day 1 scum lynch that clinched the game.
On an unrelated note, I used to be annoyed by "jo" and "joth" but nowadays the only shortening of my forum name that bugs me is "Jonah" (my real name). I just find it jarring to see it used here. I quite like "Joth."
Sorry. I do that because writing your forum name is a pain in the ass
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no worries. I don't take offense to it, whatever people wanna call me is fine.
my forum name is a typo which just, probably says a lot about me right there.
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J--->onah?
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it was supposed to be j to the onah, which I use on iso and lots of other places. (including twitter)
But I mistyped and left the first T out.
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no worries. I don't take offense to it, whatever people wanna call me is fine.
my forum name is a typo which just, probably says a lot about me right there.
theory is capable of changing your forum name; I had mine changed to coincide with my iso name (my forum name was originally shedjed)
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no worries. I don't take offense to it, whatever people wanna call me is fine.
my forum name is a typo which just, probably says a lot about me right there.
theory is capable of changing your forum name; I had mine changed to coincide with my iso name (my forum name was originally shedjed)
oh man. I dunno. I've sort of embraced the typo at this point.
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no worries. I don't take offense to it, whatever people wanna call me is fine.
my forum name is a typo which just, probably says a lot about me right there.
theory is capable of changing your forum name; I had mine changed to coincide with my iso name (my forum name was originally shedjed)
oh man. I dunno. I've sort of embraced the typo at this point.
yeah I can understand that, I am glad I changed mine now... I just can't see myself as anyone but yuma at this point...
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Wow. Great Job everybody! All Scum eliminated in 3 days, and Scum lynched D1!
I do have to ask though: Robz, why did you kill me? :P
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Wow. Great Job everybody! All Scum eliminated in 3 days, and Scum lynched D1!
I do have to ask though: Robz, why did you kill me? :P
Because you were on the Frisk wagon, which was a correct wagon. I was banking on the logic that it would be insane for scum to kill scum Day 1, therefore everyone on Frisk's wagon should look town.
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Aww, well that makes sense.
You were in a tight spot, but you played very well. I never suspected you as mafia (well until the math made sense).
Good Job! :)
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Thanks! I was suffering from fancy play syndrome, I think. But Blitz mafia is the best time to try such things, and I'm not sure scum was going to win this setup more than 1 time out of 5 anyway.
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Dude I was so obviously MVP. I was responsible for Robz voting Frisk (by suggesting random) and I voted Frisk. So I was behind 2/3 of the Day 1 scum lynch that clinched the game.
Then I say it's up to others to decide. Insomniac or jotheonah?
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I think it should go to Insomniac personally.
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I think it should go to Insomniac personally.
Not that Joth was bad here - but the successful breadcrumbing of cop, picked up by town and not scum, was hugely beneficial to changing the tone of D1. Given the town-town scuffle between Insomniac and Joth, I think that Joth is lucky to have come through alive considering how many people were uncomfortable (and rightly so!) With lynching Ins.
Besides, Joth may have proposed the 'meathod' that lynched scum D1... But Robz did the dirty work. Seriously, CF was lynched with a wagon half-full of his own faction! ;}
Nope, Joth played a good game, but I vote Insomniac for MVP. Joth can have the VT MVP though. ;D
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+1 to Galz's phone, which prefers autocorrecting to "meathod" instead of "method."
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+1 to Galz's phone, which prefers autocorrecting to "meathod" instead of "method."
Ozle would approve this message.
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Galz speaks the truth. I concede the MVP to Ins.
But I did know what I was doing Day 1. I know it appears that I just flailed around and happened to hit scum, but I was really playing a pretty high level game. By the time Frisk flipped, I was pretty sure he was scum.
Well, ok, there was some flailing. But the ratio of skill to flailing was, I would humbly suggest, higher than it looks. Which I'm excite about only because I'm usually not a super helpful townie (and my winrate on this site is atrocious).
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Hah, I loved your flailing! It made me laugh at least twice.
Also, I'll give the nod to Robz, despite losing. His unflinching day 1 bus of scum partner very nearly cleared him for life. If only he had lynched Insom, I think the win could be scum's.
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Hah, I loved your flailing! It made me laugh at least twice.
Also, I'll give the nod to Robz, despite losing. His unflinching day 1 bus of scum partner very nearly cleared him for life. If only he had lynched Insom, I think the win could be scum's.
Uhm no. Town was going to be a huge favorite to win after day1 no matter who they kill, too many confirmed townies. /sadnoonereadsmyposts
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Nah, if Robz had killed insom, we would have been in the only 2 conf-town situation we were worried about at the start of day 2. I'm almost certain I would have been lynched since Insomniac had fingered me. Then Robz gets another night kill. So there would be 5 left, and It's possible that Robz had hit either ashersky or asher's investigatee. Then we'd have maximum 2 conf-town, maybe just 1. And every single person assuming that Robz couldn't be Frisk's partner due to the day 1 bussing.
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Nah, if Robz had killed insom, we would have been in the only 2 conf-town situation we were worried about at the start of day 2. I'm almost certain I would have been lynched since Insomniac had fingered me. Then Robz gets another night kill. So there would be 5 left, and It's possible that Robz had hit either ashersky or asher's investigatee. Then we'd have maximum 2 conf-town, maybe just 1. And every single person assuming that Robz couldn't be Frisk's partner due to the day 1 bussing.
Three, archetype the quack cop he now killed instead, ashersky the actual cop and Joth who got cleared by Ashersky.
Day 2 town has to pick from 4, day 3 assuming Robz kills Ashersky town has to pick from 3, then Robz kills either quack-cop or Joth and finally we get a LyLo with 3 players left. Sure, if town would have mislynched 3 times we would have lost, but I wouldn't say "Robz would probably have won", clearly the odds were against him.
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The numbers were probably still agaisnt him. But Insom vocally said that he had basically cleared Robz as obv-town. I suspect he would have had a much better chance than simply looking at the raw numbers would suggest.
I'm gonna be unflinching in my support of Robz as MVP
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Dude I was so obviously MVP. I was responsible for Robz voting Frisk (by suggesting random) and I voted Frisk. So I was behind 2/3 of the Day 1 scum lynch that clinched the game.
On an unrelated note, I used to be annoyed by "jo" and "joth" but nowadays the only shortening of my forum name that bugs me is "Jonah" (my real name). I just find it jarring to see it used here. I quite like "Joth."
I'll do my best to make this change immediately. Though I do think Jonah is an awesome name.
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I think it should go to Insomniac personally.
I'll second this (no offense Joth). I particularly enjoyed the post where he claimed and reported on D2 (so that I got to see there are certain circumstances under which that works). I even agreed with the logic in that post about why it was safe to claim. But when I got to the end of the game, I went "wait just a second here, logic screwed you in ZM2, better make triple sure here".
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Dude I was so obviously MVP. I was responsible for Robz voting Frisk (by suggesting random) and I voted Frisk. So I was behind 2/3 of the Day 1 scum lynch that clinched the game.
On an unrelated note, I used to be annoyed by "jo" and "joth" but nowadays the only shortening of my forum name that bugs me is "Jonah" (my real name). I just find it jarring to see it used here. I quite like "Joth."
I'll do my best to make this change immediately. Though I do think Jonah is an awesome name.
Don't get me wrong, I love it in general. My middle name is actually Clark, so between J. Jonah Jameson and Clark Kent I share names with two comic book newspaper men, which is pretty cool since I'm a geek and I work in journalism.