Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: Captain_Frisk on August 17, 2012, 10:22:00 am
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I made it halfway into an adventure mode game - and I had the option to buy "Zaps" (with gokoins - which are 10cents each) to mess with the initial decks prior to play.
The store didn't load - so I didn't get to see how much they cost. Anyone want to take some guesses as to what the zaps are and how much they should cost to boost your performance in this single player only game?
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These guys would probably know. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3950.0)
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I made it halfway into an adventure mode game - and I had the option to buy "Zaps" (with gokoins - which are 10cents each) to mess with the initial decks prior to play.
The store didn't load - so I didn't get to see how much they cost. Anyone want to take some guesses as to what the zaps are and how much they should cost to boost your performance in this single player only game?
I had read in somewhere behind an Error37 that you buy them with DominionCoins, which you earn while playing. As I read somewhere in the JS of the beta, that some of your opponents starting hands in the campaign a ridiculously good (remember something like Platx7,Colx3), I guess you'll need them.
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This shouldn't depress me as much as it does. R.I.P., Goko. It's looking more and more like you'll never get my money.
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I made it halfway into an adventure mode game - and I had the option to buy "Zaps" (with gokoins - which are 10cents each) to mess with the initial decks prior to play.
The store didn't load - so I didn't get to see how much they cost. Anyone want to take some guesses as to what the zaps are and how much they should cost to boost your performance in this single player only game?
I can get Alice the Serf to load, but it won't load the Kingdom Cards list, and won't register me hitting "Begin". :-\
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I made it halfway into an adventure mode game - and I had the option to buy "Zaps" (with gokoins - which are 10cents each) to mess with the initial decks prior to play.
The store didn't load - so I didn't get to see how much they cost. Anyone want to take some guesses as to what the zaps are and how much they should cost to boost your performance in this single player only game?
I can get Alice the Serf to load, but it won't load the Kingdom Cards list, and won't register me hitting "Begin". :-\
This.
BGG people say it's like.. you degrade opponents deck with Zaps. Yuck. Even if only in SP, it teaches you nothing about the real name.
Also, if you Zap any human card (like Scout, who is mostly harmless, for example) he gets strange cosmic powers.
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I made it halfway into an adventure mode game - and I had the option to buy "Zaps" (with gokoins - which are 10cents each) to mess with the initial decks prior to play.
The store didn't load - so I didn't get to see how much they cost. Anyone want to take some guesses as to what the zaps are and how much they should cost to boost your performance in this single player only game?
I had read in somewhere behind an Error37 that you buy them with DominionCoins, which you earn while playing. As I read somewhere in the JS of the beta, that some of your opponents starting hands in the campaign a ridiculously good (remember something like Platx7,Colx3), I guess you'll need them.
That would be ok I guess. When I clicked on the zaps button - i was taken to a store to buy zaps - with my gokoins in the top right (0), and then the interface just sat there trying to load.
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I thought this was the reason Jay went with Goko, so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Well, looks like you were wrong.
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I thought this was the reason Jay went with Goko, so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Well, looks like you were wrong.
Well isn't this for the single-player campaign mode? I don't really care about that, and if they want to monetize the crap out of that I'm all for it.
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I thought this was the reason Jay went with Goko, so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Well, looks like you were wrong.
Well isn't this for the single-player campaign mode? I don't really care about that, and if they want to monetize the crap out of that I'm all for it.
I would be all for whatever they want to do in single player mode if it didn't mean that the resources spent developing it weren't spent on polishing the core dominion experience.
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I thought this was the reason Jay went with Goko, so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Well, looks like you were wrong.
Well isn't this for the single-player campaign mode? I don't really care about that, and if they want to monetize the crap out of that I'm all for it.
Well that's okay then and seems fair if the decks are going to be super hard.
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From the How To Play pop-up, under Dominion Adventures:
"In preparation for each Dominion Adventures battle, Goko gives you an opportunity to tip the scales in your favor: the option to Boost yourself or Downgrade your opponent through zaps. You're shown your hand and that of your opponent, a mix of treasure cards, victory cards, and maybe even curse cards. Want to change one of your coppers into a silver? No problem. Want to give your opponent a little knock? Maybe his Estate should be a Curse. You'll automatically earn Zaps as you progress throughout the game, you can purchase more Zaps with Dominion Coins you've earned during gameplay, or with real-life currency at the Dominion Store."
yuck. Do not like.
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From the How To Play pop-up, under Dominion Adventures:
"In preparation for each Dominion Adventures battle, Goko gives you an opportunity to tip the scales in your favor: the option to Boost yourself or Downgrade your opponent through zaps. You're shown your hand and that of your opponent, a mix of treasure cards, victory cards, and maybe even curse cards. Want to change one of your coppers into a silver? No problem. Want to give your opponent a little knock? Maybe his Estate should be a Curse. You'll automatically earn Zaps as you progress throughout the game, you can purchase more Zaps with Dominion Coins you've earned during gameplay, or with real-life currency at the Dominion Store."
yuck. Do not like.
I would love to see a statement from Donald on this Adventures mode.
Seems like a huge perversion of the game to me.
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It's an adventure mode. I'm not incredibly worried about it, and it might even be fun....although having to pay for "zaps" might be a bit lame. If not, well, there's still online play, which is the main thing I want out of this game anyway.
....waitwaitwait, did that say you can earn dominion coins? Isn't that the same kinda dominion coin you use for the expansions? Does...does that mean I can theoretically earn expansions by grinding for a (probably unreasonable) length of time? This could actually be good news! I was hoping they'd have something like that.
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From the How To Play pop-up, under Dominion Adventures:
"In preparation for each Dominion Adventures battle, Goko gives you an opportunity to tip the scales in your favor: the option to Boost yourself or Downgrade your opponent through zaps. You're shown your hand and that of your opponent, a mix of treasure cards, victory cards, and maybe even curse cards. Want to change one of your coppers into a silver? No problem. Want to give your opponent a little knock? Maybe his Estate should be a Curse. You'll automatically earn Zaps as you progress throughout the game, you can purchase more Zaps with Dominion Coins you've earned during gameplay, or with real-life currency at the Dominion Store."
yuck. Do not like.
I would love to see a statement from Donald on this Adventures mode.
Seems like a huge perversion of the game to me.
It would probably be something like: Man, whatever. It's not dominion, it's just a different game that uses dominion cards. No one's forcing you to play it or pay for it. If you want to go play dominion, go play dominion and not this.
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Wait, they let you buy expansions with Dominion coins? I can't get into the store at all, because I can't register/ login. How many coins for an expansion?
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....waitwaitwait, did that say you can earn dominion coins? Isn't that the same kinda dominion coin you use for the expansions? Does...does that mean I can theoretically earn expansions by grinding for a (probably unreasonable) length of time? This could actually be good news! I was hoping they'd have something like that.
I don't expect so. In beta, you got 10coins for a win. 5 for tie, 2 for loss. Also against bots, which you usually win against. That would be $1/win, which I don't believe in.
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Well, people were saying in the other topic that expansions were bought with coins I think, because there was an uproar on how you couldn't buy coins in the exact amount needed to buy an expansion. So...two types of coins? Super inefficient exchange rate? Misinformation on either the other topic's part or that blurb?
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I think its two different kinds of coins. You could get more dominion coins than just 10 by winning though
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Dominion coins are not the same as Gokoins, which I assume can be used to pay for the other games Goko is offering too.
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Well, people were saying in the other topic that expansions were bought with coins I think, because there was an uproar on how you couldn't buy coins in the exact amount needed to buy an expansion. So...two types of coins? Super inefficient exchange rate? Misinformation on either the other topic's part or that blurb?
As far as I can tell there are 3 resources
1 - Dominion Coins. You get 15 for beating a real live human, 5 for losing to one, 0 for resigning (thanks for that). 10 for beating a bot, and 2 for losing to a bot. It is unknown what these coins do.
2 - Dominion VP - Unknown how to get these or use them
3 - Gokoins - Purchasable in weird buckets (50,70,110, etc.) for roughly $5 for 50 coins. These can definitely buy expansions @ 60 gokoins per pack. (Saw it with my own eyeballs). They may also be used to buy zaps (my balance of 0 goins was shown when I went into the zap buying interface - which otherwise refused to load)
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I assume that resources 1 and 2 are only useable within the context of dominion. Resource 3 is kindof implied to be useable everywhere.
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just got it to load. You pay for zaps with dominion coins
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just got it to load. You pay for zaps with dominion coins
That's quite nice.
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It looks like Gokoins pay for expansions and $ Coins, VP pay for promos, and $ Coins pay for adventures and zaps?
EDIT: Looks like you buy more "acts" for adventures, and the first act comes with the corresponding expansion?
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I got the interface to load as well
25 coins -> either 1 or 10 zaps - scaling up by 10. Then I tried to launch the adventure and got the loading bar of doom.
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For the second adventure you apparently get a free zap too. It can be used to turn one of your coppers to silver, estate to duchy, or opponents estate to curse. Just 2 cards changed though
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For the second adventure you apparently get a free zap too. It can be used to turn one of your coppers to silver, estate to duchy, or opponents estate to curse. Just 2 cards changed though
So the copper to silver could be huge, but the other two options are almost irrelevant.
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My opinion: this "Dominion with zaps" might turn out to be a fun game; it might be worth playing. But it's not Dominion. At best it's a variant. But way more of a variant than using a point counter or starting with equal hands or even allowing you choose your starting hands. It should not be called "Dominion" and it should not be part of an online "Dominion" implementation. The very fact that they spent any development time at all on this variant, time that could have been spent fixing ridiculous security flaws, bugs, and server issues, is unacceptable. They could have worked on making a good Dominion game, and if they got that working, then they could spend extra time and money making variants and such.
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Well - i just beat the bot in adventure 2 - bought all 8 provinces. And the game gave me a new hand and told me I had 6 buys.... no end game screen - can't press any buttons.
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Well - i just beat the bot in adventure 2 - bought all 8 provinces. And the game gave me a new hand and told me I had 6 buys.... no end game screen - can't press any buttons.
Likely (possibly) because the server is crashed again and doesn't know you finished the game? At least, I refreshed Goko, and it's back to a Service Unavailable error...
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Well - i just beat the bot in adventure 2 - bought all 8 provinces. And the game gave me a new hand and told me I had 6 buys.... no end game screen - can't press any buttons.
Likely (possibly) because the server is crashed again and doesn't know you finished the game? At least, I refreshed Goko, and it's back to a Service Unavailable error...
Even worse now, I've gotten the site back up, but when I go to the Adventures page, even the first set of Adventures are now locked. ::)
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OH NOES. All our progress is gone
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OH NOES. All our progress is gone
How will I *ever* beat Alice the Serf again!?!
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Well this makes me sad. Hopefully Adventure Mode is balanced even if you opt out of the micropayments.
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For the second adventure you apparently get a free zap too. It can be used to turn one of your coppers to silver, estate to duchy, or opponents estate to curse. Just 2 cards changed though
I never used my zap in the first adventure level (I mean I saw the starting cards and I thought it was completely ridiculous, so why bother? Since I knew I could beat the AI with no advantage from beta), and I had two zaps available. If we could ever get back in, it seems like you get a zap for beating each level (not sure if you get them on repeat plays) so you can stack them up for the presumably more difficult levels at the end.
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OH NOES. All our progress is gone
How will I *ever* beat Alice the Serf again!?!
What i find interesting is that while this is a learning experience - it actually doesn't teach you about real dominion. Alice is such a dumbass that she can't even buy a single province - so on a board that would typically be smithy / money competitive - you actually need to build an engine to buy all 8 provinces. I was surprised at how something that felt like it was going to be a tutorial actually had no instructions on how to play the game.
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Well this makes me sad. Hopefully Adventure Mode is balanced even if you opt out of the micropayments.
The coins you use to buy zaps are dominion coins - not gokoins... so presumably at the end - there's just some minor grind to get enough coins to get enough zaps to get back to a competitive start - if indeed the final levels have the bot starting with 7 plats or something dumb.
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OH NOES. All our progress is gone
How will I *ever* beat Alice the Serf again!?!
What i find interesting is that while this is a learning experience - it actually doesn't teach you about real dominion. Alice is such a dumbass that she can't even buy a single province - so on a board that would typically be smithy / money competitive - you actually need to build an engine to buy all 8 provinces. I was surprised at how something that felt like it was going to be a tutorial actually had no instructions on how to play the game.
Yeah, she bought 5 Moneylenders, 4 Villages, 4 Cellers, 2 Moats, and 3 Councilrooms, and then just bought Duchy-Silver-Copper, in that order (always using all her buys). There was no instruction, there was no "Try this" or "Try that", there was no "You're going to have to figure out how to win in X turns (and then learn to refine that later)"... it was just "Here's a crap bot, do whatever the hell you want, and win".
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As you journey across each map, you'll battle mini bosses and one final boss. Conquering these bosses earns you special rewards: Victory Tokens, which you can convert into special Promo CardsÑrare cards with valuable gameplay properties.
LOOOL
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
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Rare card?!
That sounds vague enough to be the Blue Eyes White Dragon!
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As you journey across each map, you'll battle mini bosses and one final boss. Conquering these bosses earns you special rewards: Victory Tokens, which you can convert into special Promo CardsÑrare cards with valuable gameplay properties.
LOOOL
hey man BM can be pretty handy :(
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Except they don't seem to have figured out how to code BM yet
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As you journey across each map, you'll battle mini bosses and one final boss. Conquering these bosses earns you special rewards: Victory Tokens, which you can convert into special Promo CardsÑrare cards with valuable gameplay properties.
LOOOL
oooo... I hope I get a foil Shivan Dragon.
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It would probably be something like: Man, whatever. It's not dominion, it's just a different game that uses dominion cards. No one's forcing you to play it or pay for it. If you want to go play dominion, go play dominion and not this.
I have not looked at adventure mode and do not know exactly what the deal is, but you are more or less correct here. They said you would be able to pay (whatever that might actually mean) to make campaigns easier and I said okay. To me it's like hats. I have no interest in hats but am fine with them selling hats. It just needs to be that the game itself doesn't require any hat-buying or anything, and it doesn't.
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Well this makes me sad. Hopefully Adventure Mode is balanced even if you opt out of the micropayments.
I hope it's beatable by experienced players without "zaps" or whatever, yes.
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
I have not made any online-only promos. I'm sure they would like one. I don't know if it will ever happen.
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I was surprised at how something that felt like it was going to be a tutorial actually had no instructions on how to play the game.
My understanding was that an actual tutorial was forthcoming, not possibly making the launch. This must be the next step up.
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Rare card?!
That sounds vague enough to be the Blue Eyes White Dragon!
Screw the rules, I have turn 1 bridges!
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
I have not made any online-only promos. I'm sure they would like one. I don't know if it will ever happen.
Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
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Except they don't seem to have figured out how to code BM yet
I'm pretty certain they've coded a BM.
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Except they don't seem to have figured out how to code BM yet
I'm pretty certain they've coded a BM.
I see what you did there. ;)
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
I have not made any online-only promos. I'm sure they would like one. I don't know if it will ever happen.
Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
Is that the cost in gokoins?
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
I have not made any online-only promos. I'm sure they would like one. I don't know if it will ever happen.
Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
I guess it'll rather cost 2 gokoins
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Rare cards...
Are we just talking about Gov / Envoy / Black market / walled village?
Don't forget Stash!
To my knowledge, it's just the normal promos, unless DXV made additional ones for Goko too. It is confirmed that campaign mode is one way to unlock the promos we're familiar with.
I have not made any online-only promos. I'm sure they would like one. I don't know if it will ever happen.
Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
I guess it'll rather cost 2 gokoins
I wanted to make a side joke - because lets face it - they have public interviews discussing monetization - one of their guys used to work for zynga - and they've already said that the catan mmo will contain pay to win elements. I'm getting a distinctly dirty vibe about them based on the above.
That said - Donald has made it clear that microtransactions in the main game is unacceptable per him - and presumably as part of his license agreement with RGG and Goko. So my question is - if goko wants an exclusive online only promo card - can they make one themselves?
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Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
They can't do that, and wouldn't try to get it past me anyway.
I don't have a contract with them at all. They have a contract with RGG and RGG has a contract with me.
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Dominion Zaps...
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1394913/hockey-mask
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Here's a question: are they authorized under your relationship with them to release their own expansion content? Could they release "Goko Market: +2 coin, +2 card, +2action, +2buy", cost: 8 for example?
They can't do that, and wouldn't try to get it past me anyway.
I don't have a contract with them at all. They have a contract with RGG and RGG has a contract with me.
Maybe I'm missing something here. Are you saying their contract with RGG prevents them from doing such a thing?
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I think he's saying his contract with RGG prevents RGG from giving them permission to do so.
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I thought this was the reason Jay went with Goko, so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Well, looks like you were wrong.
Well isn't this for the single-player campaign mode? I don't really care about that, and if they want to monetize the crap out of that I'm all for it.
I do care a lot about this. I strongly strongly dislike it. I will not recommend a game to any of my friends that includes these micro transactions (whether in the main part of the game or elsewhere). IMO the whole thing stinks. It does make me sad because IMO dominion was one of the most inspired game designs that I've come across yet. So disappointing to see it go this way.
Well just my opinion. I'm sure I'm going to get shot down (or told that I'm an ungrateful so-and-so by Donald X.) but whatever....
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I am not super thrilled forever about this, and have done my share of whining about the whole thing the past couple of days, but I do not see a gigantic issue here.
-I see no reason to believe this is going to seep into "real" Dominion, given Jay's comments on the "Dominion Social" idea.
-There is no reason you HAVE to play Adventure, I don't think. You can get promos from it, but as I understand it you can get promos other ways as well?
-It seems an effective and relatively harmless way to make some money once everybody's bought all the expansions they're going to buy.
-I...am not sure what else everybody expected from a one-player "Adventure Mode" in a multiplayer game that already has the option to have a free match with the AI. I expected as soon as I heard of it that shenanigans of some sort would be afoot.
I dunno, the idea of goofy scenarios actually seems kinda fun to me. As much as I love the game, I am not above a bit of interest in screwing around with variants and such. We can argue over whether it still counts as Dominion or not, we can complain about the nickel and diming, and I will even join you in wishing that the effort that went into it had instead gone into making the game functional, but....I feel that Zaps are not the end of the world.
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Rare card?!
That sounds vague enough to be the Blue Eyes White Dragon!
Screw the rules, I have turn 1 bridges!
Ah yes, Yu-Gi-Oh, the Abridged series, good times.
Funny thing, I never watched the actual show or played the game for that matter. Well, that's not entirely true. I did demo it once, but I don't think that really counts.
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Given the generic and non-Dominion naming of Zaps, I would imagine that a similar concept will apply to all of the games they host. I assume the campaign won't be tuned so that you need them. I definitely want the later scenarios to be hard though, and while you and I may be willing to keep on trying until we win, somebody else who has a few bucks or coins lying around might want to give themselves a boost. It's not much different from cheat codes in any single player computer game. I don't care for them, but plenty of other people do.
Also, while Dominion has a whole barrel full of expansions to monetize with, some of the other games they'll be hosting might not. Microtransactions are the way of the future, where nobody wants to pay upfront for anything. People with more money than time keep things cheaper for the rest of us.
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Hey guys - before everyone gets upset about microtransactions - it was confirmed that you actually purchase the zaps with dominion coins... the ones you get from winning matches.
You may also be able to buy dominion coins with gokoins, I'm not sure - but its not like its a pay to win type of thing... rather a "grind to win" if you feel that its necessary.
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I think he's saying his contract with RGG prevents RGG from giving them permission to do so.
Isn't a blue dog somehow also involved?
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Honestly this doesn't bother me at all; I'm going to trust Donald X and Jay that the multiplayer game will not allow you to spend money to do better.
This reminds me a little of PS3/360 role playing games that have DLC raising your characters' levels or giving them bonus equipment. I know someone who refuses to buy any RPGs that have such DLC -- I think he sees it as a slippery slope situation where eventually they'll intentionally make the games unbalanced so that you have to buy the stat-boosting DLC just to play, but I'm content to get the games and just ignore the DLC.
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You know, as long as this isn't in the real game, and there's no sign that it is, I have no problem at all with this. Who cares in the campaign mode?
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-There is no reason you HAVE to play Adventure, I don't think.
It needs something extra. Maybe +Buy.
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Rare card?!
That sounds vague enough to be the Blue Eyes White Dragon!
Screw the rules, I have turn 1 bridges!
Ah yes, Yu-Gi-Oh, the Abridged series, good times.
Funny thing, I never watched the actual show or played the game for that matter. Well, that's not entirely true. I did demo it once, but I don't think that really counts.
http://youtu.be/nXaPLWHveAA?t=12m25s (http://youtu.be/nXaPLWHveAA?t=12m25s)
You reminded me of this song. :P
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I thought the adventure mode is advertised to be designed by Donald X.?
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I thought the adventure mode is advertised to be designed by Donald X.?
I'll guess that you mean you saw this in a post out of the corner of your eye, rather than in, say, advertising. I did not design adventure mode; I picked out most of the sets of 10 cards, without knowing where they would go from there.
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
I demand a secret history of adventure mode!
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
I demand a secret history of adventure mode!
I want previews!
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
I demand a secret history of adventure mode!
They wanted campaigns. What could they do, besides having different sets of 10 cards? I said, you could vary starting decks. They said sweet.
They made campaigns. One day Wei-Hwa sent me some lists of sets of ten cards for the campaign levels. I complained that they introduced new cards too slowly - when I play a Prosperity campaign I want to see lots of Prosperity cards. Wei-Hwa said, I don't remember what he said. I said I could make the lists. I made the lists. So most of the sets-of-10 are mine, but not the main set ones, or some of the later ones in the first few expansions.
I still have to send them the Hinterlands lists. Other than that I am out of that picture.
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
I demand a secret history of adventure mode!
They wanted campaigns. What could they do, besides having different sets of 10 cards? I said, you could vary starting decks. They said sweet.
They made campaigns. One day Wei-Hwa sent me some lists of sets of ten cards for the campaign levels. I complained that they introduced new cards too slowly - when I play a Prosperity campaign I want to see lots of Prosperity cards. Wei-Hwa said, I don't remember what he said. I said I could make the lists. I made the lists. So most of the sets-of-10 are mine, but not the main set ones, or some of the later ones in the first few expansions.
I still have to send them the Hinterlands lists. Other than that I am out of that picture.
Hinterlands... exists? My happenstance... I had forgotten...
GooookkOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*fist shake*
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"In a new online adventure mode designed by Goko & Donald X, created to challenge you and improve your skills"
http://dominion.isotropic.org/
I demand a secret history of adventure mode!
They wanted campaigns. What could they do, besides having different sets of 10 cards? I said, you could vary starting decks. They said sweet.
They made campaigns. One day Wei-Hwa sent me some lists of sets of ten cards for the campaign levels. I complained that they introduced new cards too slowly - when I play a Prosperity campaign I want to see lots of Prosperity cards. Wei-Hwa said, I don't remember what he said. I said I could make the lists. I made the lists. So most of the sets-of-10 are mine, but not the main set ones, or some of the later ones in the first few expansions.
I still have to send them the Hinterlands lists. Other than that I am out of that picture.
:D
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I approve that Preview :]
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Why has no one talked about Dominion base Act 2, where the first opponent has 3 provinces at the start and you have 3 curses. I did gardens and came 1 point from winning the first time and never got close again. That is just a cruel way to have an adventure game.
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Why has no one talked about Dominion base Act 2, where the first opponent has 3 provinces at the start and you have 3 curses. I did gardens and came 1 point from winning the first time and never got close again. That is just a cruel way to have an adventure game.
I tried it three or four times and gave up. If the bot just got better, that would be fine. But having to not only race Usain Bolt, but give him a head start as well, is just insane. This is different from, say, an RTS, where you can start with fewer and fewer resources and your opponent starts with more and more, because that's not really a race for a certain resource.
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Why has no one talked about Dominion base Act 2, where the first opponent has 3 provinces at the start and you have 3 curses. I did gardens and came 1 point from winning the first time and never got close again. That is just a cruel way to have an adventure game.
Yeah, I stopped playing immediately after seeing that. The worst part is that Part 2 of the expansions is the same way, even though it's a different set of new cards.
Also, the base set doesn't even need three campaigns. It needs one. As it is, the new cards are introduced at a snail's pace and it gets really tedious to play.
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Well this makes me sad. Hopefully Adventure Mode is balanced even if you opt out of the micropayments.
I hope it's beatable by experienced players without "zaps" or whatever, yes.
It is my understanding it isn't. I made it to Act 2 of Base, and I beat the dark ages one, in the base act 2 the opponent starts with 3 provinces to your 3 curses every time. Now sure I might be able to beat this on some boards (Gardens, KC+Bridge) but most? Not a chance
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Why has no one talked about Dominion base Act 2, where the first opponent has 3 provinces at the start and you have 3 curses. I did gardens and came 1 point from winning the first time and never got close again. That is just a cruel way to have an adventure game.
I mentioned it in the other thread discussing adventure mode. It's a bit ridiculous; it's probably theoretically beatable (with a lot of luck), but still ridiculous. Heck, if they just gave the bot a 20-point handicap without disturbing the number of Provinces in the supply, that would be annoying but at least doable against most of the bots. But that 20-point lead plus only five Provinces in the stack is a killer.
I'm assuming that for Act 3, you will start with a deck of 10 Curses, and the AI will start with 5 Provinces and 5 Golds.
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Why has no one talked about Dominion base Act 2, where the first opponent has 3 provinces at the start and you have 3 curses. I did gardens and came 1 point from winning the first time and never got close again. That is just a cruel way to have an adventure game.
I would not try those levels with no zaps. You get free zaps though, usually five. Just click on cards to zap them. It's a decision as to what to zap - although using three on Provinces is mostly automatic. At first I was upset by it, but I mean, in the end it's a variant and there's nothing especially wrong with it.
Now about halfway through an Act 2 (dunno about the base set one which I haven't played), it becomes very hard to get through any level with only free zaps. Some campaigns have the cards you need, cards that let you beat the computer despite the edge; especially, the Prosperity ones with Goons and Colony. Sometimes there will be a Bridge engine or something and the computer will miss it and you'll get it built in time to win. But some of those levels, well Kirian can correct me, but they seemed unbeatable with no free zaps.
The zaps that aren't free are well free. You buy with them with Dominion coins which you get for playing Dominion. I can certainly afford a ton of them just from playing through act ones. But for me all interest goes out of the level once I need those zaps. If I try to use just enough zaps to win, maybe I'll lose, and then I'm out those zaps. So I overkill on zaps and then what is this pointless exercise.
Possibly the solution is to have zaps be permanent by level - you spend one non-free zap and now there's always an extra free zap. Then I could use just enough to keep it challenging and use more if I guessed wrong.
I have not looked at an act three yet.
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But for me all interest goes out of the level once I need those zaps. If I try to use just enough zaps to win, maybe I'll lose, and then I'm out those zaps. So I overkill on zaps and then what is this pointless exercise.
This is exactly what has taken the fun out of the campaigns for me as well. At first I was enjoying them, but once I was forced to use zaps, it seemed silly to try and guess how many zaps I should use to make it both challenging and reasonably possible... so instead I just ended up using as many zaps as you can use; in which case the games become no fun. (Though opening Province/Gold can be amusing... the first couple times).
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I would not try those levels with no zaps. You get free zaps though, usually five. Just click on cards to zap them. It's a decision as to what to zap - although using three on Provinces is mostly automatic. At first I was upset by it, but I mean, in the end it's a variant and there's nothing especially wrong with it.
Ohhhh the 5 free zaps are free every game! I thought it was only every Act or something. Thanks.
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I would not try those levels with no zaps. You get free zaps though, usually five. Just click on cards to zap them. It's a decision as to what to zap - although using three on Provinces is mostly automatic. At first I was upset by it, but I mean, in the end it's a variant and there's nothing especially wrong with it.
Ohhhh the 5 free zaps are free every game! I thought it was only every Act or something. Thanks.
Trust me though, later on, like in Acts 2 and 3, having 5 free zaps won't do you any good because you will need to buy more zaps to make things on an equal playing field. Although, you can buy zaps with Dominion coins if you so choose which you earn by playing games or you can purchase Dominion coins with real money.
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It saddens me that this is the only way (that we know of) to get the promo cards.
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It saddens me that this is the only way (that we know of) to get the promo cards.
That and you can't even get all the promo cards this way so far. :-\
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It saddens me that this is the only way (that we know of) to get the promo cards.
My understanding is that the other method (besides buying them) involves doing well in tournaments. I don't have any idea how easy they'll be to come by via that route. I was certainly expecting that winning a set's campaigns would be enough to get you a promo.
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Well I finally went for trying an act three. I went for Prosperity figuring it would give me the best chance to win against the starting advantage.
Level one you get 5 coppers 5 estates, the computer has 4 provinces, 5 silver, gold. Five free zaps. I won with the free zaps anyway, because you could build a Bishop deck reasonably quickly.
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Well I finally went for trying an act three. I went for Prosperity figuring it would give me the best chance to win against the starting advantage.
Level one you get 5 coppers 5 estates, the computer has 4 provinces, 5 silver, gold. Five free zaps. I won with the free zaps anyway, because you could build a Bishop deck reasonably quickly.
Sounds to me like there's no metagame. That's what I enjoy the most about tabletop Dominion, and the metagamig was preserved in the Isotropic implementation. The more I have to wait for the Goko release, and the more I hear about it, the less likely it gets that I will spend a single red cent on it. HTML 5 FAIL
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Well I finally went for trying an act three. I went for Prosperity figuring it would give me the best chance to win against the starting advantage.
Level one you get 5 coppers 5 estates, the computer has 4 provinces, 5 silver, gold. Five free zaps. I won with the free zaps anyway, because you could build a Bishop deck reasonably quickly.
Sounds to me like there's no metagame. That's what I enjoy the most about tabletop Dominion, and the metagamig was preserved in the Isotropic implementation. The more I have to wait for the Goko release, and the more I hear about it, the less likely it gets that I will spend a single red cent on it. HTML 5 FAIL
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the proof that is not possible to implement a metagame in HTML5...
Edit: Seriously: What do you mean with 'metagame' here?
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd like a single player mode that is just basically pre-designed solo challenges. Stuff like "get 8 Provinces within 15 turns using this kingdom." It does take a little bit out of it in that you're not competing against something dynamic (that, and Attack cards are kind of useless), but come on, you were competing against a bot anyway.
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd like a single player mode that is just basically pre-designed solo challenges. Stuff like "get 8 Provinces within 15 turns using this kingdom." It does take a little bit out of it in that you're not competing against something dynamic (that, and Attack cards are kind of useless), but come on, you were competing against a bot anyway.
I think something like this may happen.
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd like a single player mode that is just basically pre-designed solo challenges. Stuff like "get 8 Provinces within 15 turns using this kingdom." It does take a little bit out of it in that you're not competing against something dynamic (that, and Attack cards are kind of useless), but come on, you were competing against a bot anyway.
I think something like this may happen.
If I could up vote this twice, I would.
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Well I finally went for trying an act three. I went for Prosperity figuring it would give me the best chance to win against the starting advantage.
Level one you get 5 coppers 5 estates, the computer has 4 provinces, 5 silver, gold. Five free zaps. I won with the free zaps anyway, because you could build a Bishop deck reasonably quickly.
What opening split did you get?
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What opening split did you get?
3/3 via using one zap to give myself a Silver (the others downgrading Provinces obv). I opened Trade Route / Loan.
I don't know what will happen with these, but I think I will push for making the act 3's start over, maybe run the same span of easy to hard that the act 1+2 pair do but at twice the speed? Like, I spent dominion coins on act 3, I should get entertainment for that, not the privilege of spending more dominion coins on zaps. If they somehow need that particular total cost, it should all be up front; charge me more for the campaign and then let me play real levels.
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What opening split did you get?
3/3 via using one zap to give myself a Silver (the others downgrading Provinces obv). I opened Trade Route / Loan.
I don't know what will happen with these, but I think I will push for making the act 3's start over, maybe run the same span of easy to hard that the act 1+2 pair do but at twice the speed? Like, I spent dominion coins on act 3, I should get entertainment for that, not the privilege of spending more dominion coins on zaps. If they somehow need that particular total cost, it should all be up front; charge me more for the campaign and then let me play real levels.
Right. The toughness should be in the bot, not in the starting conditions. The resources in Dominion are too limited to pull something like that.
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Well I finally went for trying an act three. I went for Prosperity figuring it would give me the best chance to win against the starting advantage.
Level one you get 5 coppers 5 estates, the computer has 4 provinces, 5 silver, gold. Five free zaps. I won with the free zaps anyway, because you could build a Bishop deck reasonably quickly.
Sounds to me like there's no metagame. That's what I enjoy the most about tabletop Dominion, and the metagamig was preserved in the Isotropic implementation. The more I have to wait for the Goko release, and the more I hear about it, the less likely it gets that I will spend a single red cent on it. HTML 5 FAIL
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the proof that is not possible to implement a metagame in HTML5...
Edit: Seriously: What do you mean with 'metagame' here?
Perhaps I should clarify here. A metagame is the discussion and strategizing that takes place outside of actual gameplay. The concept was brought to the fore originally in Magic: The Gathering, where metagaming refers to the strategy of deckbuilding before a single game is played, particularly within the tournament environment. It's always seemed to me that Dominion, with its similarities to certain TCG mechanics, has its own metagame.
IMNSHO, the later campaigns in Goko's implementation of Dominion are stale and linear. What bothers me more than the fact that they are difficult (which they are) and practically force you to spend zaps (which they do) is that that it just *feels* different. Once you figure out how to defeat a bot on a certain board, you can defeat the same bot over and over again using the same play strategy, subject only to opening hand vagaries. THAT is what I mean when I said that Goko Dominion seems to be lacking a metagame. My reference to "HTML 5 FAIL" was simply an observation that I was excited, but am not anymore; I'm probably one more customer Goko has lost after seeing the beta.
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IMO, the real problem with adventure mode is that it resembles RTS campaigns circa early '90s. (Actually, worse than that, because those had more variety.) By now, RTS designers have figured out that "you have crappy stuff, enemy has good stuff, enemy is dumb, go win" is boring. In a campaign for a modern RTS such as Starcraft 2, there are extremely few missions that follow that pattern.
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IMO, the real problem with adventure mode is that it resembles RTS campaigns circa early '90s. (Actually, worse than that, because those had more variety.) By now, RTS designers have figured out that "you have crappy stuff, enemy has good stuff, enemy is dumb, go win" is boring. In a campaign for a modern RTS such as Starcraft 2, there are extremely few missions that follow that pattern.
I haven't played Starcraft 2, so I'm curious - how does it break from the mold?
I imagine Dominion could make things interesting in a campaign mode by presenting things more like a puzzle - the AI has an advantage, but some wacky combo on board will let you crush it.
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All modern RTSs don't do that, not just Starcraft 2.
It has missions with a variety of objectives - destroy a certain building or set of buildings, survive for a certain amount of time, collect items or resources, etc. The maps have a variety of ways of causing difficulty besides "give your opponent more stuff and you less stuff" - time limits, scripted events on the map, a limitation on what units/buildings you can build, limited resources.
Few campaign missions (if any?) are anything like "a standard 1v1 game except your opponent starts off with more stuff and you start with less".
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It would be better if the quantity of the adventures was less and the quality was more IMO.
It is very poor form to make experienced player wade though hour after hour of uninteresting/unchallenging games just for the privilege of being allowed to play with the governer or the walled village.
The idea of making adventure mode more like the challenges/puzzles that are some times posted on this site is a good one. One (optional) part of the adventure mode could double as the tutorial for folks that haven't played before. The other part could be the more challenging one for the higher level players. The point is the different bits should be fun/interesting to play in their own right - not forcing you to play something long and dull just to get access to all the cards....
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Jumping on the bandwagon. As one of the highest-ranked players on Isotropic, the only way I can beat the campaign is to abuse Zaps and hope for incredible luck. Most of the boards are monumentally straightforward and the bot plays near-perfect strategy because they're bot-playable boards. The only exception is a few that take their deck starting with 5 Silvers and bizarrely try a Workshop-Gardens strategy, which is beaten by another deck with 5 Silvers going Province.
Even if you even the money with Zaps, you're still walking in down 7-10 points in most missions and going second, which is death.
The only thing any player is going to learn is save-scumming. Bad opening hand split, restart and try again because you don't have a prayer.
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While I agree with most of the stuff posted, I have to admit that I am having a bit of fun despite myself. There's something weirdly satisfying about exploiting a strong Workshop/Gardens rush by rushing Estates while the bot tries blindly to three-pile.
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While I agree with most of the stuff posted, I have to admit that I am having a bit of fun despite myself. There's something weirdly satisfying about exploiting a strong Workshop/Gardens rush by rushing Estates while the bot tries blindly to three-pile.
That'll change when you start running into BM bots with 5 Silver 2 Copper + Duchies vs. your 6 Copper 4 Estate. 2 Zaps isn't even enough to get off the GROUND in those games.
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It does depend on the kingdom cards. For example, I've won one game with 5 Coppers, 5 Estates vs. 1 Copper, 6 Silvers, 3 Provinces with only 4 Zaps (total). Seaside 3:8 for reference, by abusing Embargo and Ambassador.
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I'm sorry but am I the only one who is offended that Goko has turned Dominion into some weird card game for children? I seriously was excited when I heard about this. When I got on I felt like I was 5. Everything made me feel like I should not be playing this game, and I'm 20 and LOVE dominion. I have all the sets and play often. I was really hopeful because I wanted something better than isotropic. Something that felt more like dominion. And don't even get me started on the Avatars, they RUIN Goko. Seriously, they are so creepy. The thing that Goko has going for them is that the interface is clean and fun to use when playing an actual game of dominion. Otherwise I am offended that as a huge, long-time fan of dominion, that I am offered this garbage. It is truly awful and we as fans deserve better.
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Welcome to the F.DS, I think you'll fit right in with what many of us have been saying for the past half year ;)
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I'm sorry but am I the only one who is offended that Goko has turned Dominion into some weird card game for children? I seriously was excited when I heard about this. When I got on I felt like I was 5. Everything made me feel like I should not be playing this game, and I'm 20 and LOVE dominion. I have all the sets and play often. I was really hopeful because I wanted something better than isotropic. Something that felt more like dominion. And don't even get me started on the Avatars, they RUIN Goko. Seriously, they are so creepy. The thing that Goko has going for them is that the interface is clean and fun to use when playing an actual game of dominion. Otherwise I am offended that as a huge, long-time fan of dominion, that I am offered this garbage. It is truly awful and we as fans deserve better.
You should post that on their Get Satisfaction Page. Maybe if they hear enough complaints like yours they will actually do something to change those avatars....
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I'm sorry but am I the only one who is offended that Goko has turned Dominion into some weird card game for children? I seriously was excited when I heard about this. When I got on I felt like I was 5. Everything made me feel like I should not be playing this game, and I'm 20 and LOVE dominion. I have all the sets and play often. I was really hopeful because I wanted something better than isotropic. Something that felt more like dominion. And don't even get me started on the Avatars, they RUIN Goko. Seriously, they are so creepy. The thing that Goko has going for them is that the interface is clean and fun to use when playing an actual game of dominion. Otherwise I am offended that as a huge, long-time fan of dominion, that I am offered this garbage. It is truly awful and we as fans deserve better.
You should post that on their Get Satisfaction Page. Maybe if they hear enough complaints like yours they will actually do something to change those avatars....
I think we need some extra moderation capabilities to f.ds - kindof like slashdot.
+1: Funny
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Anyone else having the adventures very inconsistently load for them? Now that the difficulty is to "normal dominion" mostly, sometimes I play the AI when I think I may be interrupted, and I figure I might as well grind out those VPs.
But usually when I go to start an adventure game, after the kingdom/starting deck screen I hit "start", the screen blacks out, and it just sits there.
Anyone have a fix for this?
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Anyone else having the adventures very inconsistently load for them? Now that the difficulty is to "normal dominion" mostly, sometimes I play the AI when I think I may be interrupted, and I figure I might as well grind out those VPs.
But usually when I go to start an adventure game, after the kingdom/starting deck screen I hit "start", the screen blacks out, and it just sits there.
Anyone have a fix for this?
Dang, that's been an ongoing problem. I thought they'd fixed it. Have you tried clearing your cache?
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Anyone else having the adventures very inconsistently load for them? Now that the difficulty is to "normal dominion" mostly, sometimes I play the AI when I think I may be interrupted, and I figure I might as well grind out those VPs.
But usually when I go to start an adventure game, after the kingdom/starting deck screen I hit "start", the screen blacks out, and it just sits there.
Anyone have a fix for this?
Dang, that's been an ongoing problem. I thought they'd fixed it. Have you tried clearing your cache?
LAst time I played adventures (I've beaten Intruige/Base/Dark Ages [the ones that aren't stupid difficulty] and the other act 1s) it did that all i had to do was refresh and try again.
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Dang, that's been an ongoing problem. I thought they'd fixed it. Have you tried clearing your cache?
Just tried clearing my cache, didn't fix it.
Here's the last few entries from the JS console log:
*** Campaign images preloaded. *** gameMapLoader.js:361
Creating new meeting room for campaign game. FS.MeetingRoom.Dominion.js:11772
>>>>> setTableSettings resp: FS.MeetingRoom.Dominion.js:11772
Bot invited:
Maybe it is "inviting" a bot to the game, no bot is responding or something, and it gets stuck?
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Adventures tend to crash for me after 2 or 3 games.
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Adventure Mode is super crapalicious. They stole the idea for it off the free Dominion application a fan made except his free version is 1,000 times better with no zaps & much more interesting adventures.
The only reason I started playing was I saw you could earn the little Dominion icons which I could use to buy Black Market. Once I see how long it takes to gain them... well, I'll just shell out $4. Playing Adventure mode is only slightly more fun than data entry or making iPods in a Chinese factory (I can only speculate on the latter, the former is from experience).
I wonder if any poor lost soul has actually paid for coins to buy zaps. That would made me want to cry if they did.
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Also agree with hooforfoo 100% about the avatars. These people pay, let them use custom avs (without having to install a script).
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Also agree with hooforfoo 100% about the avatars. These people pay, let them use custom avs (without having to install a script).
Why wouldn't you use the extension?
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I do it but the site would be better if everyone could have a custom av. How hard could it be, every forum has it as an option.
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I do it but the site would be better if everyone could have a custom av. How hard could it be, every forum has it as an option.
Not every forum. I don't visit that many forums, but I know that the forums for League of Legends only allows custom avatars for staff. Everyone else gets a grey question mark. It's not difficult to implement custom avatars, but it does take up resources in the form of storage space and moderation. Plus, there are potential issues if moderators are not quick enough to deal with inappropriate content, especially since their demographic probably includes minors.
A good compromise would be to allow a choice of avatars, rather than the option to upload your own. Art from the Dominion cards is an obvious way to go, and that would give a decent variety.