Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: Tombolo on August 16, 2012, 12:07:22 am
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It's now the 16th on the east coast! I have my fingers crossed that I'll get to play before bed, because I am quite curious.
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Hopefully soon, when does Gen Con start? Will they have a demo going on in the exhibitor hall? Anyway, I'm on the beta, but I'm itching to play with DA cards again.
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Probably no earlier than midnight PST. Or 3 am Eastern.
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Wait, is there a version for Mac? (Non iOS, actually a Mac desktop/laptop)
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Wait, is there a version for Mac? (Non iOS, actually a Mac desktop/laptop)
You can play it in a browser, so yeah. You don't have to download anything.
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Probably no earlier than midnight PST. Or 3 am Eastern.
Man! That is the exact time my work day starts. (8am London)
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Probably no earlier than midnight PST. Or 3 am Eastern.
Man! That is the exact time my work day starts. (8am London)
You should probably call in sick.
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Probably no earlier than midnight PST. Or 3 am Eastern.
Man! That is the exact time my work day starts. (8am London)
You should probably call in sick.
We don't know for sure if it goes live at that time. For all we know, it might not be until the middle of the day tomorrow.
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just play Isotropic whole day, and you will notice
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It's just about 7:00 a.m. Eastern now and nothing yet. Am I right in assuming this will go up on playdominion.com?
Gen Con is in Indy, which is Central time, right? Will they time it with that?
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From BGG's iOS Board Game blog:
Dominion Coming Very Soon
By now you've read in multiple places that the long anticipated and official digital implementation of Dominion is coming very soon. You can read about it here, here, here, and here.
The reason you didn't see a post from us is because Goko put an embargo on the information until 6am PST on August 16th and we chose to abide by the embargo. This is a fairly common public relations practice and we abide by it whenever it is requested by a developer. And given the perhaps overly-secretive history of this particular project, we were thrilled to finally know there would be a green light in the very near future for us to share what we had learned over the course of these long months. So, you may ask, an embargo on exactly what information? We are choosing to wait until then to reveal it, as requested. When we do post on it, and with correct information, you will see that the story is really about more than Dominion and about more than iOS. In the meantime, you can scour the interwebs for the Dominion scoops. They are easy enough to find.
So it seems like it might go live (or we'll at least receive some more news) by 6am PST, although I assume they mean PDT.
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This is in 10 minutes right?
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SUPER EXCITED!
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Is this gonna happen today ? Is some embargo lifting today or is the game itself releasing ?
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Is this gonna happen today ? Is some embargo lifting today or is the game itself releasing ?
Embargo lifted right now.
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Nothing hit BGG at that time.
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SETTLERS OF CATAN AS AN MMO
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And another 1.5 Dark Ages, presumably, cards spoiled:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1393558/blindspot
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http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629/ios-news-new-html5-games-company-and-developer-pla
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That is fairly cool, actually!
.....when does it go up >_>
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http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629/ios-news-new-html5-games-company-and-developer-pla
I got goosebumps from reading that. I guess I'm a true geek.
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TADA!! We are doing even cooler stuff and it's happening today but not really today right now today but maybe today but it's cool right so maybe tomorrow?
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http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629/ios-news-new-html5-games-company-and-developer-pla (http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629/ios-news-new-html5-games-company-and-developer-pla)
LOL No actual release from private beta status. This is funny. Apparently they either need better communication, had a slight problem/technical difficulty, someone screwed up, or this guy posted it a bit early.
edit: Just watched the video, I'm 99% sure I've seen that video before :o
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http://uk.gamespot.com/news/dominion-dealt-to-pc-ios-android-6391910
Even gamespot reporting on this. It had better launch soon or goko will look real silly.
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http://uk.gamespot.com/news/dominion-dealt-to-pc-ios-android-6391910
Even gamespot reporting on this. It had better launch soon or goko will look real silly.
Bloomberg too!
http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2012-08-16/azf6cfOqG2OI.html
I'm getting goosebumps like lekkit as well - but I bet for different reasons.
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http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2012/08/16/html5-games-get-their-own-dominion-gokocom (http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2012/08/16/html5-games-get-their-own-dominion-gokocom)
been posted at gamezebo (never heard of them before but google linked it lol)
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including the first multiplayer version of Dominion
Poor Doug Z :(
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including the first multiplayer version of Dominion
Poor Doug Z :(
poor Donald...
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including the first multiplayer version of Dominion
Poor Doug Z :(
poor Donald...
To think that all this time I've been cheating by playing Dominion with other people!
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including the first multiplayer version of Dominion
Poor Doug Z :(
poor Donald...
To think that all this time I've been cheating by playing Dominion with other people!
No wonder attacks tend to be so strong!
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including the first multiplayer version of Dominion
Poor Doug Z :(
poor Donald...
To think that all this time I've been cheating by playing Dominion with other people!
It's just multiplayer solitaire anyway.
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Poor Doug Z :(
everytime i see any comparison to isotropic i am reminded of how dougz designed isotropic himself. on a server in his closet. for fun.
it just makes me think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtntTvuv8Aw) scene.
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But yeah, this whole Goko concept seems pretty cool if they can pull it off.
.....I wish I could have a bit more confidence in their ability to pull it off.
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everytime i see any comparison to isotropic i am reminded of how dougz designed isotropic himself. on a server in his closet. for fun.
Poor freak, I can only imagine the issues he has to lock himself into a closet for fun.
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So any of you folks in the know, chatting with Trish, etc., have any updates for us poor saps gently clicking refresh on goko.com over and over?
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This seems outside of Donald X's jurisdiction, so my guess for that question is "lol no"
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I know (at least) Theory has a direct line to Trish, so was hoping for a chime in.
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Oh, he does? I'll upgrade my snarky response to a "maybe lol" then. That still requires info coming from goko.
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Oh, he does? I'll upgrade my snarky response to a "maybe lol" then. That still requires info coming from goko.
Trisha also monitors the help@goko.com email address. I suspect that you won't get an answer if you send a "WTF is going on people" - but if you really want to talk to her - you can do so.
Edit: s/mans/monitors/g - "She also mans" just looked a little strange.
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On the plus side, one of those articles has a screenshot of the interface, so I can at least see what I am (theoretically at some point) getting into!
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EDIT: Put it in chronological order, sorry.
1h Goko Goko @gokogames
Aaaand we're live! Come check out some of the awesome #socialgames now available on http://www.goko.com/ #dominion
Goko @gokogames
Hi everyone, looks like our site is experiencing a hiccup, thanks for your patience while we straighten this out. We'll update you ASAP!
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Goko @gokogames
Hi everyone, looks like our site is experiencing a hiccup, thanks for your patience while we straighten this out. We'll update you ASAP!
1h Goko Goko @gokogames
Aaaand we're live! Come check out some of the awesome #socialgames now available on http://www.goko.com/ #dominion
I still get the prompt for my username & Pw at that link
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Goko @gokogames
Hi everyone, looks like our site is experiencing a hiccup, thanks for your patience while we straighten this out. We'll update you ASAP!
1h Goko Goko @gokogames
Aaaand we're live! Come check out some of the awesome #socialgames now available on http://www.goko.com/ #dominion
Lie! Foul lies!
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I c/p'd it from twitter so it's in reverse order, sorry.
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I c/p'd it from twitter so it's in reverse order, sorry.
#subtletroll
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All my best trolling is accidental!
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Really curious how MMO-Catan should look like? Stock Market for Sheep?
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I am simultaneously super curious and hyped and dreading it.
Much like their Dominion, really.
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Wow, 40 people watching this thread. I've occasionally seen 1 or 2 reading at the same time as me.
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But yeah, this whole Goko concept seems pretty cool if they can pull it off.
.....I wish I could have a bit more confidence in their ability to pull it off.
Indeed, indeed =_(
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Now guys remember, since when is RGG good for keeping their word when it comes to release dates. I know this isn't RGG, but it is endorsed by them.
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Well when they said a few weeks it turned out to be 7 months, so since this was announced a few days in advance I'd say we're looking at another 2-3 weeks tops.
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Edit: s/mans/monitors/g - "She also mans" just looked a little strange.
+1 for the vi reference.
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Well, this is underwhelming.
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And of course poor Europe, goko probaly will go up around midnight here ;/
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Now guys remember, since when is RGG good for keeping their word when it comes to release dates. I know this isn't RGG, but it is endorsed by them.
As well as apparently several others. Mayfair is in on this? How did I not know that??
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I can't believe it's even coming out on the Windows 8 Store of all places. That is so awesome. Finally something to do with my Win8 tablet.
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Clearly, we're not all talking about the same August 16th, right? Well, at least American Samoa still has 3 and a half hours left in that day, so this should mean we'll see goko go online in then next 3.5 hours ??? Or did they mean 2013?
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Clearly, we're not all talking about the same August 16th, right? Well, at least American Samoa still has 3 and a half hours left in that day, so this should mean we'll see goko go online in then next 3.5 hours ??? Or did they mean 2013?
Still August 16th here in Hawaii! Let's go, Goko... just 2 and a half more hours to make good!
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Yeah, so it's August 16th nowhere in the world anymore, and still no Goko... This is disappointing :(
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(http://i.qkme.me/3qium6.jpg)
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They seem to have launched!!
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They seem to have launched!!
Give this man some +1s!
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1 min, still loading bar... not a good sign.
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Yes, they are still having some problems:
"Could not start the game"...
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1 min, still loading bar... not a good sign.
I'm getting 404s... worse sign
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retarded avatar? strike 2
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The beta is still up for me.
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I'm in. Doesn't seem to allow any type of chatting
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Launched? Where? dominion.goko.com is still the old screen for me.
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in, trying to create a game... little spinny thing.
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Launched? Where? dominion.goko.com is still the old screen for me.
http://www.goko.com
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www.goko.com
It's not handling the load well - images aren't loading.
Looks like the mini expansions are 60 somethings... i'm guessing the VPs... but no idea yet on the conversion rate.
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Oh, had to clear the cache.
Ugh, loading.
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maybe starting a game... another loading bar, this one seems frozen.
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That would be 60 gokoins - which cost $5 for 50 - so you have to buy mismatched amounts of coins to buy the expansions.
I'm going to send DougZ a check for $100 right now - and I will never pay funsockets anything.
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retarded avatar? strike 2
Wow the avatars are bad..
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yeah fuck this I'm gonna get breakfast and hope it speeds up later on.
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That would be 60 gokoins - which cost $5 for 50 - so you have to buy mismatched amounts of coins to buy the expansions.
I'm going to send DougZ a check for $100 right now - and I will never pay funsockets anything.
Or 110 for $10
230 for $20?
Edit: OK, I admit, maybe these are good amounts for other games. But they are perfectly annoying for buying Dominion sets
assuming this works at some point, they are probably getting my money anyway
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Well, other games might cost differently.
So, its 10 bucks per big expansion (15 for DA) ?
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That would be 60 gokoins - which cost $5 for 50 - so you have to buy mismatched amounts of coins to buy the expansions.
I'm going to send DougZ a check for $100 right now - and I will never pay funsockets anything.
Or 110 for $10
230 for $20?
What an obvious scam for more money..
Yeah, making things cheaper when you buy in bulk is an 'obvious scam' that no one else has ever done ever....
Did you really expect them to not try to do these kinds of pricing/marketing gimmicks to try to make more cash? Really?
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Well, other games might cost differently.
So, its 10 bucks per big expansion (15 for DA) ?
There are no big expansions. The IRL 'big' expansions are split in to smaller ones.
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Lol, load bar finished, popup: Lost network connection.
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WW, they mean that if you buy dominion you always have leftover money.
Anyway, as much as I like this whole dead, 95% loading and than - "connection lost". Sigh.
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Did anyone who registered actually get a confirmation email?
I haven't gotten one yet, but it hasn't seemed to get in my way at all
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So - $6 for a mini expansion - $12 for a full, and $18 (!!!) for dark ages. Overpriced - but within the range of tolerable - if you buy everything (once its all released) you're out somewhere near $100.
What I'm offended about is the blatantly consumer unfriendliness of the dual token system... i can't actually pay the exact amount I want to - but I have to pay just a little bit more - which means I have a little left in my account - which means I want to buy something to use it - which means I need to add some money to my account ....
Good for business - bad for consumer - and I don't love dominion enough support behavior like this.
I feel really bad for Donald.
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i have, took some minutes
Im actually in, but the campaign set wont load.
Also i think the prize is pretty high, not sure wether dont think im willing to pay that much
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Still loading for me...I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay that much for expansions since I already own all the sets, but I hope this doesn't totally crash and burn. I really like the implementation, it just needs more time.
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Well, I got the mail, too, only after a few seconds.
But loading takes ages...
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I'm in...annoying music to say the least. The "Create Game" button doesn't seem to be working. Hopefully see one of you in a game soon...
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I am guessing they're still getting things set up, considering no announcement has been made. Not sure why they made the page live if so.
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So, me and my girlfriend loves to play dominion IRL and have all the expansions and love to play to others on Isotropic.
And now we have to pay both like $100 to play it on internet?
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So, me and my girlfriend loves to play dominion IRL and have all the expansions and love to play to others on Isotropic.
And now we have to pay both like $100 to play it on internet?
Only 1 of you has to pay as long as you're always playing the games together. Still steep IMO, but perhaps I'm spoiled by how cheap most apps are these days.
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Not being able to spend the exact amount of money you want sucks, but that is how Xbox Live has been doing it forever. I suppose you could argue that Xbox Live is a better service though.
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I am guessing they're still getting things set up, considering no announcement has been made. Not sure why they made the page live if so.
I think he is right, maybe we should wait a bit.
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Not being able to spend the exact amount of money you want sucks, but that is how Xbox Live has been doing it forever. I suppose you could argue that Xbox Live is a better service though.
Just because other people are doing it too doesn't make it right.
This was probably the best post @ bgg yesterday
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629?commentid=3133969#comment3133969
Last year at genCon, I had the opportunity to meet with the Goko(then FunSockets) guys. They wanted a license for Innovation, along with other Asmadi products. Really nice guys, but something just didn't feel right about the whole deal. They wanted a long term exclusivity contract, and I just wasn't interested in ceding that control for years with no guarantee of delivery.
They had solid business background, but my read on what they were best at was acquisition. It was an exec team that could boast the most about being able to secure VC funds. They didn't have a ny tech details to offer me except the word HTML5, and so I ultimately passed. I hope they succeed in creating a great online board game portal, but I hope it is not at the expense of offline play for board gamers.
My concern is that people who are good at acquiring funding are not always folks that are good at delivering. They sure did convince a lot of people to give them digital rights, and they got their $8M. I hope they use it to make an awesome site, and not the next 38 Studios.
I think these guys are great business guys, but clearly not great coders
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100? Isn't it 2 (Int) + 2 (Sea) + 2 (Pros) + 1 (Alch) + 1(Corn) + 2 (Hint) + 3(DA) = ~60-70 bucks?
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its $75/ €60 if you buy a 580, a 230 and a 50 pack, since you need 840 coins
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100? Isn't it 2 (Int) + 2 (Sea) + 2 (Pros) + 1 (Alch) + 1(Corn) + 2 (Hint) + 3(DA) = ~60-70 bucks?
12 + 12 + 12 + 6 + 6 + 12 + 18 + 6 (Guilds) = 84?
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I'm going to send DougZ a check for $100 right now - and I will never pay funsockets anything.
Maybe he can use it to start up fauxminion.isotropic.org...
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Not being able to spend the exact amount of money you want sucks, but that is how Xbox Live has been doing it forever. I suppose you could argue that Xbox Live is a better service though.
Just because other people are doing it too doesn't make it right.
This was probably the best post @ bgg yesterday
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12629?commentid=3133969#comment3133969
Last year at genCon, I had the opportunity to meet with the Goko(then FunSockets) guys. They wanted a license for Innovation, along with other Asmadi products. Really nice guys, but something just didn't feel right about the whole deal. They wanted a long term exclusivity contract, and I just wasn't interested in ceding that control for years with no guarantee of delivery.
They had solid business background, but my read on what they were best at was acquisition. It was an exec team that could boast the most about being able to secure VC funds. They didn't have a ny tech details to offer me except the word HTML5, and so I ultimately passed. I hope they succeed in creating a great online board game portal, but I hope it is not at the expense of offline play for board gamers.
My concern is that people who are good at acquiring funding are not always folks that are good at delivering. They sure did convince a lot of people to give them digital rights, and they got their $8M. I hope they use it to make an awesome site, and not the next 38 Studios.
I think these guys are great business guys, but clearly not great coders
Seems like a pretty fair assessment. I'm just befuddled at how such groups GET so much funding, licenses, etc.
I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
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From Bgg:
[q="tqboz"][q="tqboz"]Website is now working [/q]
And although its active it dosent appear to allow you to do anything.
DOH......[/q]
I got as far as discovering that when starting a game of Dominion I can pay 'zaps' in order to 'downgrade my opponents deck' and promptly shut the browser in disgust.
(Edit: I should point out this was an adventure game against AI - haven't yet seen if this is allowed multiplayer - I'd hope not!)
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
Let's go with Valve as an example of a company that doesn't appear to be out to bone us over?
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
Let's go with Valve as an example of a company that doesn't appear to be out to bone us over?
Again, I'm not saying they're not out there. I'm saying they're rare.
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I'd totally buy a dominion hat.
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
When you don't complain on these things that are only anti-costumer and only self-serving, the anti-costumer will not have any negative impact, so any wise buisness decision would be to ignore costumer. Therefore, you should complain and not be company-understanding.
Maybe it's rational for them to do so, but it's not rational for us to except it. Edit: Because, in the long run, what's rational for companies depends on how the costumer behaves.
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I manged to get to main screen without any UI (just background) + music.
This sucks. I think I'll go ... study. :-\
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
When you don't complain on these things that are only anti-costumer and only self-serving, the anti-costumer will not have any negative impact, so any wise buisness decision would be to ignore costumer. Therefore, you should complain and not be company-understanding.
Maybe it's rational for them to do so, but it's not rational for us to except it. Edit: Because, in the long run, what's rational for companies depends on how the costumer behaves.
I have bigger things to complain about.
Do you guys actually think your complaints will do anything? All that they're going to care about is whether people buy the stuff or not.
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
Let's go with Valve as an example of a company that doesn't appear to be out to bone us over?
Again, I'm not saying they're not out there. I'm saying they're rare.
My thinking is this - some evil you just can't avoid - you're probably paying some manner of cable company or telecom. You pay too much for text messages (which are cheaper to deliver than voice - but still cost more money). You have to shave your face so you overpay for razors.
But for a small company and a non-essential product - I would much rather support someone who is friendly to their consumers. I have no interest in the Zynga of boardgaming.
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
When you don't complain on these things that are only anti-costumer and only self-serving, the anti-costumer will not have any negative impact, so any wise buisness decision would be to ignore costumer. Therefore, you should complain and not be company-understanding.
Maybe it's rational for them to do so, but it's not rational for us to except it. Edit: Because, in the long run, what's rational for companies depends on how the costumer behaves.
Totally agree with DStu.
See it like that: If you buy the boardgame, you have 100% control about what you are doing with it where to take and so on.
If you buy virtual goods in a store like that, you are completely dependend on them: You do not know whether their service will shut down, if there is a lot of server load, the service is broken and so on...
So pricing is ok, but it should not be to much because it is not 100% reliable
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
Let's go with Valve as an example of a company that doesn't appear to be out to bone us over?
Again, I'm not saying they're not out there. I'm saying they're rare.
My thinking is this - some evil you just can't avoid - you're probably paying some manner of cable company or telecom. You pay too much for text messages (which are cheaper to deliver than voice - but still cost more money). You have to shave your face so you overpay for razors.
But for a small company and a non-essential product - I would much rather support someone who is friendly to their consumers. I have no interest in the Zynga of boardgaming.
And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
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I don't get the outrage over the price-scheming though. I mean, it's not unexpected or dishonest. It is self-serving, but... you live in America, right? How many companies are there around that aren't self-serving? How many people? It's not that it's none, and we were very fortunate to have DougZ as a shining example of someone who wasn't. But while this price scheme doesn't make me all happy inside... color me thoroughly meh.
When you don't complain on these things that are only anti-costumer and only self-serving, the anti-costumer will not have any negative impact, so any wise buisness decision would be to ignore costumer. Therefore, you should complain and not be company-understanding.
Maybe it's rational for them to do so, but it's not rational for us to except it. Edit: Because, in the long run, what's rational for companies depends on how the costumer behaves.
I have bigger things to complain about.
Do you guys actually think your complaints will do anything?
Rationalizing what's good for companies also does not change anything, and we have spend as many posts on this.
All that they're going to care about is whether people buy the stuff or not.
Yepp, in the end, that's exactly what you have to consider when you don't like the behaviour of some companies. But for first, maybe you can talk...
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
So whats your recommended approach? Don't pay?
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
What do you have against whining?
It's a time-honored and instinctual means of getting attention.
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I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
I'm not sure if I agree with "not anything", but you are right, there are more effective means...
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
So whats your recommended approach? Don't pay?
Well, if that bothers you enough, yes. The pricing thing doesn't bother me that much, but other stuff does. But basically, yeah, don't pay.
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I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
"The squeaky wheel gets the grease"
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(http://i.qkme.me/3qivo3.jpg)
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
What do you have against whining?
It's a time-honored and instinctual means of getting attention.
You're not getting THEIR attention by whining here... only annoying already aggravated people more. They don't read what's going on here. If you want to whine to them directly, be my guest. Don't know how much that will help you, but go ahead.
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
So whats your recommended approach? Don't pay?
I've yet to even get an opportunity to pay for anything on Goko...and I've been trying for half an hour. Makes me think I definitely shouldn't/won't pay.
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
What do you have against whining?
It's a time-honored and instinctual means of getting attention.
You're not getting THEIR attention by whining here... only annoying already aggravated people more. They don't read what's going on here. If you want to whine to them directly, be my guest. Don't know how much that will help you, but go ahead.
It's also a fairly well established method of commiseration... the "bitch session". I guess my question is why does it annoy you so much?
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And that's totally fine. But I am perplexed by the complaining much more about this pretty standard, accepted price scheme, than, say, the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
Yepp, but also, things do add up. I don't know excatly anymore why end ehrn I entered this thread, but I don't like this "they are companies, they do what is good for you and we should understand and except that"-attitude. What's good for them depends on us.
I'm not saying we should accept it. I'm saying that whining about it doesn't help anything.
What do you have against whining?
It's a time-honored and instinctual means of getting attention.
You're not getting THEIR attention by whining here... only annoying already aggravated people more. They don't read what's going on here. If you want to whine to them directly, be my guest. Don't know how much that will help you, but go ahead.
It's also a fairly well established method of commiseration... the "bitch session". I guess my question is why does it annoy you so much?
It distracts from the much larger, more important problems for which communication actually does something important.
Like the fact that they have BASICALLY NO SECURITY AT ALL
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It distracts from the much larger, more important problems for which communication actually does something important.
Like the fact that they have BASICALLY NO SECURITY AT ALL
Fair enough, no argument there.
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It distracts from the much larger, more important problems for which communication actually does something important.
Like the fact that they have BASICALLY NO SECURITY AT ALL
Well, thats definitely a point which they have to fix in the future...
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or that almost nothing works, at least right now. Couldn't start SP or Adventure.. now it's black screen, hopefully the MP game will start today.
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It distracts from the much larger, more important problems for which communication actually does something important.
Like the fact that they have BASICALLY NO SECURITY AT ALL
Well, thats definitely a point which they have to fix in the future...
...or, better, in the past.
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Or at least in the present
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Or at least in the present
They have some great security in place now - not enough server capacity to handle the load - so nobody can do anything insecure.
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Or at least in the present
Maybe in an alternate dimension?
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Someone remind me, which card is it that gives the player:
+1 Neverending Status Bar
Trash your computer. If Goko Online Dominion Starts, you win. Forever.
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
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Well, nothing to add to the attached image...
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
Right now, unless they actually fixed the bug it's possible to write functioning javascript in the chat. That alone makes me not want to even consider paying for anything. I would not trust this company with any personal information just yet.
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4136.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4095.0
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. Passwords are sent in plain text (so don't do this on public wifi folks)
2. javascript in the chat lobby isn't escaped - so you can execute JS on everyone elses machines
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
4. full game state is sent to your client - so you can see whats in your opponents hand
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Adventure Mode Level 1:
Base Set: Act 1, Game 1
Only yesterday you were a mere heir, but today you are ruler of the kingdom! Your parents, the Prince and Princess, met mysterious deaths while vacationing at Chesmarsh Villa in the countryside. Your kingdom may be small, with only three Estates and a small supply of Copper, but it's now yours to command.
That's what I can see. I also think it's played against "Alice the Serf" and has some kingdom cards, neither of which will load. It's ranked three stars, whatever that means. The begin button is sad and unresponsive.
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I'm patiently waiting for the thing to load...waiting...waiting...argh.
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. Passwords are sent in plain text (so don't do this on public wifi folks)
Whaoh.
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. Passwords are sent in plain text (so don't do this on public wifi folks)
2. javascript in the chat lobby isn't escaped - so you can execute JS on everyone elses machines
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
4. full game state is sent to your client - so you can see whats in your opponents hand
Hadn't seen 4 before.
This is like a laundry list of worst mistakes from Web Dev 101.
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I haven't heard the security concerns before. Is the concern about individual accounts or more general server hacking?
As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. Passwords are sent in plain text (so don't do this on public wifi folks)
2. javascript in the chat lobby isn't escaped - so you can execute JS on everyone elses machines
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
4. full game state is sent to your client - so you can see whats in your opponents hand
(http://i.qkme.me/3qiwdh.jpg)
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The game...thing loads really slowly for me and then pops up a few connections lost.
Now I can get into the game! But then I can't start any games. It lags like hell when I click on anything.
I think I'll wait for a few days and try again.
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hmm, by the comments and first look isotropic is a lot of times more advanced and executed better than goko now :? Didnt they tryed to ask/hire Dougz for help, because now it looks childish with all these bugs/not finished things popping out :?
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Just popping in without reading. Did anyone "that's what she said" the thread title yet? Because, that's what she said.
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Just popping in without reading. Did anyone "that's what she said" the thread title yet? Because, that's what she said.
Well it went up, but it's having trouble staying up. Apparently everyone is trying to get on at the same time. And it just can't handle the load.
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Ahh, if only FunSockets had built online Dominion on yo momma instead of Goko.
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As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. Passwords are sent in plain text (so don't do this on public wifi folks)
2. javascript in the chat lobby isn't escaped - so you can execute JS on everyone elses machines
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
4. full game state is sent to your client - so you can see whats in your opponents hand
Oh wow. I really don't mind the payment model - but this? This is a pooch, thoroughly screwed.
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And...it's down. "Service Unavailable."
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Im pretty sure the first acheivement badge should be getting the thing to load... second one appears to be properly entering the capture text.
These seem pretty much unattainable, not certain they need to develop any further badges.
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hmm, by the comments and first look isotropic is a lot of times more advanced and executed better than goko now :? Didnt they tryed to ask/hire Dougz for help, because now it looks childish with all these bugs/not finished things popping out :?
Goko's struggle does make DougZ's work seem all the more amazing.
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Hai Guize! I found this great place to play Dominion Online and it WORKS!:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/play
..... :'(
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Im pretty sure the first acheivement badge should be getting the thing to load... second one appears to be properly entering the capture text.
I wish I hadn't gotten that second achievement. I already feel pretty stupid giving them my main email address, given that they have zero security in place.
The beta seemed pretty solid, and I misplaced my trust.
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Hai Guize! I found this great place to play Dominion Online and it WORKS!:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/play
..... :'(
Galzria, that is just a site called Isotropic. It is a free implementation of Dominion, and is due to be taken down within the next week.
.... :'(
;) :P
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Hai Guize! I found this great place to play Dominion Online and it WORKS!:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/play
..... :'(
Galzria, that is just a site called Isotropic. It is a free implementation of Dominion, and is due to be taken down within the next week.
Whoooot? Isotropic is going down???!!!111!??
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I didn't know how bad the security was so I didn't claim this publicly earlier, but I'll do so now that it seems like a general concern. When I was invited to beta, my password was a former title of mine ("Assistant Research Technician"), I held earlier. It was pretty specific, so I was pretty shocked to see it as my password. Also, it didn't work. I finally had them invite me through a different e-mail account and it worked.
Still, how did they get that title, as it didn't seem to be a coincidence? I thought maybe they were scraping information based on our e-mail addresses from the internet. I was told they didn't, then once they figured it out, they said they actually did do this using some third party software (for marketing research, demographic targeting, or what have you). Still, that's pretty ridiculous and insecure. And they must have written their code pretty badly if their scraper replaced a numerical password I was supposed to receive with an incorrect multi-word password based on my identity. I'm not a huge privacy nut, but this is ridiculous, and if this had happened to someone else, I can understand if they would be furious. I was hoping it was an issue on my end with my e-mail client (gmail, so not likely), replacing something in the html code of the e-mail.
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I didn't know how bad the security was so I didn't claim this publicly earlier, but I'll do so now that it seems like a general concern. When I was invited to beta, my password was a former title of mine ("Assistant Research Technician"), I held earlier. It was pretty specific, so I was pretty shocked to see it as my password. Also, it didn't work. I finally had them invite me through a different e-mail account and it worked.
Still, how did they get that title, as it didn't seem to be a coincidence? I thought maybe they were scraping information based on our e-mail addresses from the internet. I was told they didn't, then once they figured it out, they said they actually did do this using some third party software (for marketing research, demographic targeting, or what have you). Still, that's pretty ridiculous and insecure. And they must have written their code pretty badly if their scraper replaced a numerical password I was supposed to receive with an incorrect multi-word password based on my identity. I'm not a huge privacy nut, but this is ridiculous, and if this had happened to someone else, I can understand if they would be furious. I was hoping it was an issue on my end with my e-mail client (gmail, so not likely), replacing something in the html code of the e-mail.
Classy.
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Wow.
I can say one thing for sure, I've changed my Google password, as I initially tried to log in using my Google account and it made me create a new account with them anyway. It was strange, but I know I typed in my Google password there. Yikes.
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I see a bunch of folks writing that the pricing is not huge issue for them but I have to say that if the reports on this thread are accurate it is a pretty big issue for me.... the prices people are talking puts it in the same sort of league as a big budget new release 3D FPS from a major studio (with all the development costs that go along with one of those).
Even if we were talking a top flight implementation I'd still think $70-80 is about double a reasonable price and it seems pretty clear we're not talking a top flight implementation....
As to encouraging new more casual gamers to the game there is no way pricing like that is going to do the trick.
And that is without even starting to think about this security type stuff....
Looks like I may have to look for my next post dominion addiction. :( :( :( :( :(
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I see a bunch of folks writing that the pricing is not huge issue for them but I have to say that if the reports on this thread are accurate it is a pretty big issue for me.... the prices people are talking puts it in the same sort of league as a big budget new release 3D FPS from a major studio (with all the development costs that go along with one of those).
Even if we were talking a top flight implementation I'd still think $70-80 is about double a reasonable price and it seems pretty clear we're not talking a top flight implementation....
As to encouraging new more casual gamers to the game there is no way pricing like that is going to do the trick.
Looks like I may have to look for my next post dominion addiction. :( :( :( :( :(
See thats the thing. From the perspective of the casual gamer - 80 bucks is retardedly high in comparison to the quality of content you can get for the same amount (you can probably buy mass effect 1,2 and 3)
From the perspective of me, $80 for a game that I have played 5000+ times is trivial - the $/hour are almost nothing.
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It's more than I was WANTING to pay, but not necessarily more than I'm WILLING to pay...if it works at some point.
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As to encouraging new more casual gamers to the game there is no way pricing like that is going to do the trick.
I doubt that casuals will be spending much money at all on the site. Realistically, most casual players will either just play a few games against the bots with the base set or will mooch off others' cards. I have a hard time believing that casuals will end up buying a half-set at a time to play single-player.
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If prices will really be too big for majority, they probably has to change them, because whats the purpose of putting resources in the game you dont get any money back.
For me, as i have 3 dominion sets at home of real cards, i dont really want to pay again for them just to get digital form :?
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For someone who has paid for all of the physical sets (DA is on the way), it seems like pricing would be an issue for me as well. Although paying for all of the expansions has been worth it, I might just stick to playing IRL if I have to drop another $60-$80 for an online app of a game I already own.
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Let me be clear: I wasn't trying to say that the pricing isn't an issue. I was just trying to say that it's an obvious, evident one. And there are other, less obvious ones which are shocking and appalling.
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
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but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
you forgot your sarcasm tag.
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
I think (don't have numbers) they're in completely different leagues, based on how many players are playing MTG and Dominion
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
I think (don't have numbers) they're in completely different leagues, based on how many players are playing MTG and Dominion
Chess is the greatest game of all?
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
I think (don't have numbers) they're in completely different leagues, based on how many players are playing MTG and Dominion
Chess is the greatest game of all?
Yes but how will you monetize it with micropayments?
Maybe for $0.1 you can make your pawn into a bishop for one turn.
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The thing about the security, it's not like I don't think they can fix these thins. It's that they didn't know they NEEDED to think about them until someone told them. I'm going to guess that there are people at least as smart as those users who pointed these things out who are going to be able to do things, and you just cannot rely on your users to tell you what security needs you have.
That, and the response to the javascript thing was basically 'thanks, it's only an issue in place X, we understand and will fix it this afternoon, please keep enjoying the service now'. Which tells me that they DON'T understand how much of an issue this is.
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Chess is the greatest game of all?
The concept is amazing, but to me a great game has some sort of randomness.
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
I think (don't have numbers) they're in completely different leagues, based on how many players are playing MTG and Dominion
Chess is the greatest game of all?
Yes but how will you monetize it with micropayments?
Maybe for $0.1 you can make your pawn into a bishop for one turn.
There are a number of financially successful chess sites, based on, largely, educational content, event coverage, etc.
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Chess is the greatest game of all?
The concept is amazing, but to me a great game has some sort of randomness.
I'm not actually trying to argue that it's the best game ever (though hey, it's great). I'm saying that if you're going based on number of people who play, then chess far out-does the named games, etc. etc., and that THAT is not a great metric.
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Magic Online was also pretty disastrous at first and people were complaining about bugs and having to pay hard cash for virtual cards. Goko seems to experience an even rougher start, but since Dominion is in the same league as Magic (to me at least) it should eventually be a success.
I think (don't have numbers) they're in completely different leagues, based on how many players are playing MTG and Dominion
Chess is the greatest game of all?
Yes but how will you monetize it with micropayments?
Maybe for $0.1 you can make your pawn into a bishop for one turn.
There are a number of financially successful chess sites, based on, largely, educational content, event coverage, etc.
Wow, making money while respecting the game, what an (apparently) novel idea.
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Chess is the greatest game of all?
The concept is amazing, but to me a great game has some sort of randomness.
I'm not actually trying to argue that it's the best game ever (though hey, it's great). I'm saying that if you're going based on number of people who play, then chess far out-does the named games, etc. etc., and that THAT is not a great metric.
It's not a metric of how good a game is. But I didn't think it was an issue of how good it is, but how BIG is it. MTG has long running tournaments and WAY bigger player-base.
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Chess is the greatest game of all?
The concept is amazing, but to me a great game has some sort of randomness.
I'm not actually trying to argue that it's the best game ever (though hey, it's great). I'm saying that if you're going based on number of people who play, then chess far out-does the named games, etc. etc., and that THAT is not a great metric.
It's not a metric of how good a game is. But I didn't think it was an issue of how good it is, but how BIG is it. MTG has long running tournaments and WAY bigger player-base.
Also I think for these purposes you need to distinguish between copyright-encumbered games like Dominion and MTG and ones that anyone is free to implement like chess.
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Chess is the greatest game of all?
The concept is amazing, but to me a great game has some sort of randomness.
I'm not actually trying to argue that it's the best game ever (though hey, it's great). I'm saying that if you're going based on number of people who play, then chess far out-does the named games, etc. etc., and that THAT is not a great metric.
It's not a metric of how good a game is. But I didn't think it was an issue of how good it is, but how BIG is it. MTG has long running tournaments and WAY bigger player-base.
Also I think for these purposes you need to distinguish between copyright-encumbered games like Dominion and MTG and ones that anyone is free to implement like chess.
Well, anyone can basically make a game that's exactly like these, too, due to the weirdness of copyright laws. But to just cop anyway, I would submit Scrabble.
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Oops!
Sorry, couldn't find that game but try some of our others!
It's back 'up' ...
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Oops!
Sorry, couldn't find that game but try some of our others!
It's back 'up' ...
Yeah - up is in quotes.
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You kind of have to feel sad for a company that has a shiny new product go so wrong on launch.
At the same time, it's pretty hard to feel bad for a company that gives so little consideration to the privacy and security of its customers.
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hmm, by the comments and first look isotropic is a lot of times more advanced and executed better than goko now :? Didnt they tryed to ask/hire Dougz for help, because now it looks childish with all these bugs/not finished things popping out :?
No, they asked, but Doug declined. I think we can see why.
As for the issues, I believe this is a great way to ruin a great game. I can't wait for them to ruin games like RftG, Citadel, etc. !!!!
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My favorite validation code: Service Tempora
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My favorite validation code: Service Tempora
How apropos
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Not that I have gotten to the point of creating a user yet... Heaven forbid the captura from working properly.
But has anyone noticed that it asks you for your email, then you create a username and password. However on the login screen you still use your email and password. I guess it is just piling on at this point, but seriously can't they at least align these to be the same?
I guess maybe if we could get in and try out the gameplay, we wouldnt have to bitch about all of these things :)
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Not that I have gotten to the point of creating a user yet... Heaven forbid the captura from working properly.
But has anyone noticed that it asks you for your email, then you create a username and password. However on the login screen you still use your email and password. I guess it is just piling on at this point, but seriously can't they at least align these to be the same?
I guess maybe if we could get in and try out the gameplay, we wouldnt have to bitch about all of these things :)
Username for the lobby and leaderboard. Don't want everyone to have that information.
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Login with Facebook: SSL Connection Error.
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I GOT IT TO START A GAME!
...I think it's crashed halfway through, but I finally get to monkey around with the UI! You don't seem to need an account to just start up a game with the AI.
It's not as horrible as I had feared, although it's not great either.
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...the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
This is very telling. I don't know much about internet security, but if WW won't play Dominion on Goko due to security issues, that is enough to scare me off. That's like if a bakery comes out with a new cookie, and Cookie Monster himself comes out and says, "This cookie is not safe to eat, so I'm not eating it." No way am I going anywhere near that cookie.
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How are you all starting games? It's still showing "private beta" when I go the site. I mean, I'm in the private beta, but I want to play with Dark Ages cards.
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How are you all starting games? It's still showing "private beta" when I go the site. I mean, I'm in the private beta, but I want to play with Dark Ages cards.
Go to goko.com instead of using the dominion URL
(not that its working right now.. but that's how I go in earlier)
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How are you all starting games? It's still showing "private beta" when I go the site. I mean, I'm in the private beta, but I want to play with Dark Ages cards.
From my perspective:
goko.com - Takes you to the Beta Page
www.goko.com - Takes you to the main site.
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Go here: http://goko.com/Dominion/v400/gameClient.html#
Or maybe don't. It's not letting you login, register or play games anyway ATM.
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...the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
This is very telling. I don't know much about internet security, but if WW won't play Dominion on Goko due to security issues, that is enough to scare me off. That's like if a bakery comes out with a new cookie, and Cookie Monster himself comes out and says, "This cookie is not safe to eat, so I'm not eating it." No way am I going anywhere near that cookie.
Well, to be fair, I think I've played like.... half a dozen games on iso in the last month and a half, and it doesn't have any of these issues (so far as I can tell, anyway).
But yeah, don't get on the thing, now at least.
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...the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
This is very telling. I don't know much about internet security, but if WW won't play Dominion on Goko due to security issues, that is enough to scare me off. That's like if a bakery comes out with a new cookie, and Cookie Monster himself comes out and says, "This cookie is not safe to eat, so I'm not eating it." No way am I going anywhere near that cookie.
Well, to be fair, I think I've played like.... half a dozen games on iso in the last month and a half, and it doesn't have any of these issues (so far as I can tell, anyway).
But yeah, don't get on the thing, now at least.
Also - someone - wasn't me I swear - pasted my post out on BGG regarding the list of known security issues. Not that I'm saying bgg as a whole is less trustworthy than our fine community - but they are a little angrier than we are - and there are alot of them.
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Also - someone - wasn't me I swear - pasted my post out on BGG regarding the list of known security issues. Not that I'm saying bgg as a whole is less trustworthy than our fine community - but they are a little angrier than we are - and there are alot of them.
Oo, Alots of angry BGGs...
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Also - someone - wasn't me I swear - pasted my post out on BGG regarding the list of known security issues. Not that I'm saying bgg as a whole is less trustworthy than our fine community - but they are a little angrier than we are - and there are alot of them.
Oo, Alots of angry BGGs...
I don't know that they are representative of all prospective customers - but I can see the point that if I was all excited about the upcoming launch of the ios version of dominion... and my expectations were set based on say... the ascension app... that I'd be a little upset to find out that after N months, its just a web browser wrapper around an HTML5 application that isn't nearly as slick - and doesn't offer offline play (personally my ipad gets the most use when I'm commuting long distances)
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Just completed one game in adventure mode!
Pretty boring so far but I guess it could get interesting.
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Just completed one game in adventure mode!
Pretty boring so far but I guess it could get interesting.
Second game failed to load though.
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Also got first adventure done
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Looks like there's quite a bit of content there...
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Also got first adventure done
Me too! 60 - 1! Take THAT Alice the Serf!
.....
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Where are these BGG threads where everybody is rioting? I am intimidated by that site. >_>
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Also got first adventure done
Me too! 60 - 1! Take THAT Alice the Serf!
.....
Noteworthy though, if Expansions are bought with coins, I earned 10 of 'em for beating Adventure-I
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You know, I was going to do a recap of all the bullshit, but most of it's above in this thread.
But I'm not. It's not worth it. Goko has suckered game companies into buying ~150 licenses for an undetermined amount of time. Most of those licenses aren't going to ever be seen as playable games. Dominion may not be a playable game, or at least not one with a significant player base, due to the launch failure and the monetization method. But Iso will go down, nonetheless, due to the exclusivity agreements.
Those game companies already have their money. RGG, Mayfair, whoever else--they already have their cash. How much, Jay? And for how long did you give away your exclusive license? Two years? More? Perpetuity? I hope you and Pete Fenlon have your lawyers ready; maybe you'll be able to pry those licenses back.
I don't think it's an entirely pessimistic view to think it possible that online Dominion--and other online games--are dead due to this royal fuck-up.
So. Until Goko is running, running well, and people are using it, I now extend my (personal) boycott to any and all companies who have contracts with Goko. I'd love to know exactly which companies they are--obviously Mayfair and RGG, and obviously not Asmadi (was there another company who said "no thanks" in that thread? I don't remember).
I thought I'd be proven wrong about this whole thing. I'd still be happy to be proven wrong. But this... this is the very definition of pathetic.
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Not same coins, Galz.
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Not same coins, Galz.
Ah, fair enough. Honestly, I haven't been able to get it to work with enough consistency to actually check things like that.
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You know, I was going to do a recap of all the bullshit, but most of it's above in this thread.
But I'm not. It's not worth it. Goko has suckered game companies into buying ~150 licenses for an undetermined amount of time. Most of those licenses aren't going to ever be seen as playable games. Dominion may not be a playable game, or at least not one with a significant player base, due to the launch failure and the monetization method. But Iso will go down, nonetheless, due to the exclusivity agreements.
Those game companies already have their money. RGG, Mayfair, whoever else--they already have their cash. How much, Jay? And for how long did you give away your exclusive license? Two years? More? Perpetuity? I hope you and Pete Fenlon have your lawyers ready; maybe you'll be able to pry those licenses back.
I don't think it's an entirely pessimistic view to think it possible that online Dominion--and other online games--are dead due to this royal fuck-up.
So. Until Goko is running, running well, and people are using it, I now extend my (personal) boycott to any and all companies who have contracts with Goko. I'd love to know exactly which companies they are--obviously Mayfair and RGG, and obviously not Asmadi (was there another company who said "no thanks" in that thread? I don't remember).
I thought I'd be proven wrong about this whole thing. I'd still be happy to be proven wrong. But this... this is the very definition of pathetic.
*Claps* This is my thoughts exactly. Couldn't put it better myself. Apparently someone also started a discussion over at TeamLiquid.net
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361278#1
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I wonder how they got all the money
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How are you guys playing adventure mode? Is there a different URL for it or is it the same as the beta link they provided?
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Occasionally goko.com will go up for a bit, and presumably some people have managed to register and start adventure mode during those windows.
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How are you guys playing adventure mode? Is there a different URL for it or is it the same as the beta link they provided?
start @ www.goko.com
it seems to have died again. And warning - the javascript in lobby thing has not been fixed - so make sure whatever password you use here is garbage. I'd also recommend using a garbage email account.
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I wonder how they got all the money
Well they are clearly good at pitching. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4096.msg89762#msg89762)
From ednever's interview with Jay of RGG: (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3489.0)
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:
1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)
...
So, promise something (every platform!) that would be great if you actually can deliver it in any meaningful sense. Trouble is, it's not actually feasible. Already we're seeing a gradual platform roll-out.
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I wonder how they got all the money
Well they are clearly good at pitching. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4096.msg89762#msg89762)
From ednever's interview with Jay of RGG: (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3489.0)
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:
1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)
...
So, promise something (every platform!) that would be great if you actually can deliver it in any meaningful sense. Trouble is, it's not actually feasible. Already we're seeing a gradual platform roll-out.
Eh, I'm not so sure that it can't be done. Just THEY can't do it. At least, on the time-frame that it's getting pushed with.
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I wonder how they got all the money
Well they are clearly good at pitching. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4096.msg89762#msg89762)
From ednever's interview with Jay of RGG: (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3489.0)
I asked him how he selected FunSockets. He said that people have been coming to him for years asking to develop an online Dominion game. He did not like any of the proposals. Two examples of why:
1- The wanted to make it platform-specific. They would slowly roll out platforms over time. Jay is not a technology guy, so he didn't have counter proposals, but he didn't like the idea. FunSockets came to him with HTML5 - playform agnostic. It's what sold him (even though he hadn't heard of HTML5 before)
...
So, promise something (every platform!) that would be great if you actually can deliver it in any meaningful sense. Trouble is, it's not actually feasible. Already we're seeing a gradual platform roll-out.
Eh, I'm not so sure that it can't be done. Just THEY can't do it. At least, on the time-frame that it's getting pushed with.
It might be possible to put something OK on multiple platforms at once, but I'm pretty convinced that if you want to get a great experience on each platform, you need devs who specialize in that platform. This especially goes for mobile devices.
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So goko.com is up and interestingly enough one of the cards in their banner advertisement for Dominion is Alchemist (Alchemy on launch?)
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So goko.com is up and interestingly enough one of the cards in their banner advertisement for Dominion is Alchemist (Alchemy on launch?)
It's not really up, and no alchemy isn't in the launch.
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Forbidden City seems to work properly.... :'(
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Forbidden City seems to work properly.... :'(
Is it a game where the object is to look at the screen and press buttons that don't do anything?
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Forbidden City seems to work properly.... :'(
Is it a game where the object is to look at the screen and press buttons that don't do anything?
Never played it. But the Tutorial goes through fine for me, and I can start Single Player games against bots. Which are both more than I can do with Dominion atm....
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Forbidden City seems to work properly.... :'(
Is it a game where the object is to look at the screen and press buttons that don't do anything?
Heh, you get buttons. I get blackness.
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Forbidden City seems to work properly.... :'(
Is it a game where the object is to look at the screen and press buttons that don't do anything?
Never played it. But the Tutorial goes through fine for me, and I can start Single Player games against bots. Which are both more than I can do with Dominion atm....
There is a sharp looking avatar on the screen though. Glad they got that right.
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You know, I don't entirely blame Goko for this botch up. I do believe RGG played a role on making sure this launched during Gen Con.
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You know, I don't entirely blame Goko for this botch up. I do believe RGG played a role on making sure this launched during Gen Con.
What I think happened (complete speculation):
1. FunSockets management promises GenCon launch.
2. Goko is not quite ready for this.
3. FunSockets management forces the launch to go through anyway because they want to make the date.
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...the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
This is very telling. I don't know much about internet security, but if WW won't play Dominion on Goko due to security issues, that is enough to scare me off. That's like if a bakery comes out with a new cookie, and Cookie Monster himself comes out and says, "This cookie is not safe to eat, so I'm not eating it." No way am I going anywhere near that cookie.
Had to come out of lurker mode to say this post made my day. I'm a sucker for Cookie Monster analogies.
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...the huge, gaping lack of security. Which is why I'm going to steer clear of the thing for a long time, at least.
This is very telling. I don't know much about internet security, but if WW won't play Dominion on Goko due to security issues, that is enough to scare me off. That's like if a bakery comes out with a new cookie, and Cookie Monster himself comes out and says, "This cookie is not safe to eat, so I'm not eating it." No way am I going anywhere near that cookie.
Had to come out of lurker mode to say this post made my day. I'm a sucker for Cookie Monster analogies.
How much security do you need to play dominion? If you are really concerned use a different email address. You aren't giving them credit card data. Worse case scenario someone steals the deck designs you built? Or plays games under your name?
Maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I'm pretty sure the incentive is limited to break into accounts without money attached to them.
If someone breaks into my amazon account, that's bad, but if they break into my Economist account and start reading articles and extending my subscription for me I think I'll be ok...
Ed
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Now I can get to the site, but it seems to not like my password. >:(
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Goko dominion looks really nice, and I think will eventually be a nice way to play. After a month or two, most of the kinks will be sorted out. But, this launch is a disaster. There is no reason that the page is still unplayable.
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How much security do you need to play dominion? If you are really concerned use a different email address. You aren't giving them credit card data. Worse case scenario someone steals the deck designs you built? Or plays games under your name?
Maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I'm pretty sure the incentive is limited to break into accounts without money attached to them.
If someone breaks into my amazon account, that's bad, but if they break into my Economist account and start reading articles and extending my subscription for me I think I'll be ok...
Ed
Um, if we don't give them credit card info, how are we supposed to purchase the expansions? Do they have some third-party payment system set up?
EDIT: Also, I'm not going to log into a site which allows other users to redirect me to a site filled with malware. Do you actually understand anything about security, or about the complaints people are leveling against Goko?
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How much security do you need to play dominion? If you are really concerned use a different email address. You aren't giving them credit card data. Worse case scenario someone steals the deck designs you built? Or plays games under your name?
Maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I'm pretty sure the incentive is limited to break into accounts without money attached to them.
If someone breaks into my amazon account, that's bad, but if they break into my Economist account and start reading articles and extending my subscription for me I think I'll be ok...
Ed
Um, if we don't give them credit card info, how are we supposed to purchase the expansions? Do they have some third-party payment system set up?
EDIT: Also, I'm not going to log into a site which allows other users to redirect me to a site filled with malware. Do you actually understand anything about security, or about the complaints people are leveling against Goko?
I agree with your concerns. The malware redirect thing is allegedly being fixed today - but frankly with that error and others - I see no way of feeling confident that that's the only place that its a problem. I'm looking forward to seeing how goko addresses that question on 8/22.
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I'm just kind of praying that they don't do something silly like wrap the chat input in quotes or something, in a naive attempt at preventing injection.
It's honestly really strange that that problem even exists. My suspicion is that they take your chat input, stick it in an object and turn it to json for transport, but at the other end they eval it instead of using JSON.parse. And that's really just a guess because it's the only reason I can think of that they'd be using eval anyway.
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I'm just kind of praying that they don't do something silly like wrap the chat input in quotes or something, in a naive attempt at preventing injection.
It's honestly really strange that that problem even exists. My suspicion is that they take your chat input, stick it in an object and turn it to json for transport, but at the other end they eval it instead of using JSON.parse. And that's really just a guess because it's the only reason I can think of that they'd be using eval anyway.
I don't think it's the JSON parsing; seems more likely to be the way it renders the chat string in the window. Probably creates a new div and then sets its innerHTML to the chat text (which will cause scripts to run).
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I agree with your concerns. The malware redirect thing is allegedly being fixed today - but frankly with that error and others - I see no way of feeling confident that that's the only place that its a problem. I'm looking forward to seeing how goko addresses that question on 8/22.
What happens 8/22?
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I don't think it's the JSON parsing; seems more likely to be the way it renders the chat string in the window. Probably creates a new div and then sets its innerHTML to the chat text (which will cause scripts to run).
I hadn't been able to get into the game since I heard about it to test. I JUST posted elsewhere exactly what you just said! I think that's likely. A global replace of < to < should prevent the injection, right? (Of course, full escaping would be nicer.)
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I agree with your concerns. The malware redirect thing is allegedly being fixed today - but frankly with that error and others - I see no way of feeling confident that that's the only place that its a problem. I'm looking forward to seeing how goko addresses that question on 8/22.
What happens 8/22?
Iso disappears, and they have a shitstorm of hardcore Dominion players with nowhere else to go...
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I agree with your concerns. The malware redirect thing is allegedly being fixed today - but frankly with that error and others - I see no way of feeling confident that that's the only place that its a problem. I'm looking forward to seeing how goko addresses that question on 8/22.
What happens 8/22?
Iso disappears, and they have a shitstorm of hardcore Dominion players with nowhere else to go...
actually I think he meant when the questions are answered from the 'Ask FunSockets anything' thread http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4080.0
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I agree with your concerns. The malware redirect thing is allegedly being fixed today - but frankly with that error and others - I see no way of feeling confident that that's the only place that its a problem. I'm looking forward to seeing how goko addresses that question on 8/22.
What happens 8/22?
Iso disappears, and they have a shitstorm of hardcore Dominion players with nowhere else to go...
actually I think he meant when the questions are answered from the 'Ask FunSockets anything' thread http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4080.0
Bingo!
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Query - why is the beta still working, but not the actual site?
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Query - why is the beta still working, but not the actual site?
Probably it's running on its own server.
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Query - why is the beta still working, but not the actual site?
My guess is different servers. I suspect the beta is on a dev server - and can handle the load of 20 people hitting it.
I suspect that on the production side - they are having performance problems - things don't respond within the time that clients are expecting - and then the whole thing falls apart.
Sounds like some combination of the below
1: Their marketing was successful and way more people are hitting it than they tested / planned for and their hardware is buckling.
2: They didn't performance test for load - probably because its expensive and hard and they didn't have time - and its just dying under normal load
3: Their hoster isn't up to handling this kindof load / doesn't have enough bandwidth
Based on the other issues I've seen - my guess is #2. I know everyone wants to compare this to Diablo3 - but the scale of problem here is way different. Diablo sold in the high millions the first week. I'd love to hear from goko as to how many unique users are nailing it right now, but I doubt its above 10 thousand or so.
That's more than your average web developer is probably prepared to deal with, but far from "OMG we need a farm"
I've seen a variety of behaviors when I log in (sometimes i have my 10 coins, sometimes I don't, sometimes I have my 3 stars, sometimes I don't, sometimes I can see the map of adventures, sometimes its locked) - which makes me think that there is some kindof load balancing at play here behind the scenes - and perhaps its getting mixed up.
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Oh - and I forgot #4 - which is the conspiracy theory at all MMO launches - they knew it was going to fail - but they launched it anyway - because paying for the hardware to support peak launch is stupid when traffic inevitably dies down after a week.
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Oh - and I forgot #4 - which is the conspiracy theory at all MMO launches - they knew it was going to fail - but they launched it anyway - because paying for the hardware to support peak launch is stupid when traffic inevitably dies down after a week.
I really don't think it's a load issue.
It was dog slow within a minute of the "It's up!" post this morning.
Even at peak yesterday there were only a couple hundred people watching the forum, and I doubt there are hordes of non F.DSers out there constantly refreshing.
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Oh - and I forgot #4 - which is the conspiracy theory at all MMO launches - they knew it was going to fail - but they launched it anyway - because paying for the hardware to support peak launch is stupid when traffic inevitably dies down after a week.
This is why you use virtual instances on a cloud hosting site like Rackspace or EC2. Just make more instances when demand is high and kill them when traffic slows. Just having it completely fail is a terrible solution.
I gotta be honest, everything I've been hearing about the game on these forums make me think it's complete amateur hour over at Goko (and also that they're going for a Zynga-like cash grab). When I heard there was gonna be an official website/app I got really excited because I was expecting something along the lines of the Ticket to Ride iPad app quality-wise, but what I've seen and heard so far is hugely disappointing.
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Oh - and I forgot #4 - which is the conspiracy theory at all MMO launches - they knew it was going to fail - but they launched it anyway - because paying for the hardware to support peak launch is stupid when traffic inevitably dies down after a week.
This is why you use virtual instances on a cloud hosting site like Rackspace or EC2. Just make more instances when demand is high and kill them when traffic slows. Just having it completely fail is a terrible solution.
I gotta be honest, everything I've been hearing about the game on these forums make me think it's complete amateur hour over at Goko (and also that they're going for a Zynga-like cash grab). When I heard there was gonna be an official website/app I got really excited because I was expecting something along the lines of the Ticket to Ride iPad app quality-wise, but what I've seen and heard so far is hugely disappointing.
Yeah, my guess is that they were trying to do something like that, but are completely incompetent at network engineering and various parts of their systems are not communicating / activating properly.
I really don't think this is a simple load issue.
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You know, I was going to do a recap of all the bullshit, but most of it's above in this thread.
But I'm not. It's not worth it. Goko has suckered game companies into buying ~150 licenses for an undetermined amount of time. Most of those licenses aren't going to ever be seen as playable games. Dominion may not be a playable game, or at least not one with a significant player base, due to the launch failure and the monetization method. But Iso will go down, nonetheless, due to the exclusivity agreements.
Those game companies already have their money. RGG, Mayfair, whoever else--they already have their cash. How much, Jay? And for how long did you give away your exclusive license? Two years? More? Perpetuity? I hope you and Pete Fenlon have your lawyers ready; maybe you'll be able to pry those licenses back.
I don't think it's an entirely pessimistic view to think it possible that online Dominion--and other online games--are dead due to this royal fuck-up.
So. Until Goko is running, running well, and people are using it, I now extend my (personal) boycott to any and all companies who have contracts with Goko. I'd love to know exactly which companies they are--obviously Mayfair and RGG, and obviously not Asmadi (was there another company who said "no thanks" in that thread? I don't remember).
I thought I'd be proven wrong about this whole thing. I'd still be happy to be proven wrong. But this... this is the very definition of pathetic.
Until now Keiran I had been thinking that your concerns & boycott calls etc. were a bit.... over the top. But I wake up this morning (Australian time) and it looks like all of the worst case scenarios are coming true despite assurances to the contrary. I regret that I now find myself in complete agreement with you.... looks like you (despite being slapped down by Donald X. a few times) have been the most clear sighted of any of us.
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Anyone else notice that goko.com now links to the Dominion BETA application? I guess they figured out its not ready..
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Anyone else notice that goko.com now links to the Dominion BETA application? I guess they figured out its not ready..
Huh. Yes it does. It appears they have reverted it back to private beta.
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Until now Keiran I had been thinking that your concerns & boycott calls etc. were a bit.... over the top. But I wake up this morning (Australian time) and it looks like all of the worst case scenarios are coming true despite assurances to the contrary. I regret that I now find myself in complete agreement with you.... looks like you (despite being slapped down by Donald X. a few times) have been the most clear sighted of any of us.
Eh, I wouldn't call myself "clear-sighted" exactly. I'm a pragmatist, and I try to work on evidence. In this case, given the evidence, the most optimistic viewpoint was that we would have something pretty but, in many ways, worse than isotropic. The long-term optimistic view was that things would improve as we moved forward.
New evidence has come to light. Major venture capital, huge amounts spent on gobbling up exclusive game licenses, and monetization schemes... and on the flip side a bungled launch, gaping security flaws, and a massive PR disaster. This is not even judgment on my part, this is just the basic evidence.
And that evidence not only makes things look bad for the future of online Dominion, but also for the future of online board gaming in general. We have a bunch of licenses locked up by a company that makes amateurs look good in comparison. Right now the optimistic view is that, in a few days, things will be cobbled back together, and we'll have something still worse than isotropic, but run by a company that failed at its most critical moment, and lost a huge number of potential customers in less than two days. And that assumes they'll take care of the security problems, etc., ASAP.
The pessimistic viewpoint has two paths. One is extremely dark, as it involves Goko locking up these licenses and not developing them properly, and that lasting for who knows how long. That effectively kills online play for major RGG and Mayfair titles for N years. The other is actually brighter; it involves Goko folding completely, the licenses reverting to the manufacturers, a bunch of venture capitalists getting shafted, and going back to amateurs developing the online implementations again.
That last path might even involve RGG, Mayfair, and the like, waiting for someone to actually show them a working product, then licensing it.
Perhaps that last is actually the optimistic scenario, actually.
I have a feeling Jay Tummelson, Pete Fenlon, Larry Roznai, and the other game execs are feeling a bit blindsided right now. I would guess Donald is too; I don't think this was his expectation either.
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Anyone else notice that goko.com now links to the Dominion BETA application? I guess they figured out its not ready..
Huh. Yes it does. It appears they have reverted it back to private beta.
Bitches better put Dark Ages in the beta.
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Anyone else notice that goko.com now links to the Dominion BETA application? I guess they figured out its not ready..
Huh. Yes it does. It appears they have reverted it back to private beta.
A decision I can get behind!
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"The other is actually brighter; it involves Goko folding completely, the licenses reverting to the manufacturers, a bunch of venture capitalists getting shafted, and going back to amateurs developing the online implementations again.
That last path might even involve RGG, Mayfair, and the like, waiting for someone to actually show them a working product, then licensing it.
Perhaps that last is actually the optimistic scenario, actually." Quote from Kirian.
+1
But, what a waste of time and effort and expectation and goodwill. And any way one tries to spin it - even in the best case scenarios - it will be the far distant future before the playing experience returns to anything like what we took for granted prior to isotropic being switched off. The actual experience of playing the game - the pleasure of playing the game - the reason so many people spend so much time reading about it, thinking about it and posting about it - the actual experience of playing the game is going to be significantly degraded now and for a long time into the future.
Clearly the reason so many people, myself included, are getting hot under the collar is that they really love the game. I think the game itself is beautiful, elegant and almost endlessly fascinating. I want the best for the game and I it to be implemented in the best possible way. I want to be able to go to my friends and say "look at this fantastic game I've been playing, come and play it with me".... and I can't see how I'm going to be able to do that in the foreseeable future.
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To be fair, Goko Dominion is not really all that bad. Sure it's somewhat buggy and its developers didn't build it with security in mind (which is unfortunate), but it does use bleeding-edge technologies like HTML5. (I'm not sure what their server is running, but I suspect that it's something like Node.js with a MongoDB backend.) The graphics and animation are far superior to anything we've seen thus far, making it more appealing to the casual Dominion player. Isotropic has its place as a "gitrdone" interface for Dominion, but playing on Isotropic is a significantly different experience than playing with real cards. I think Goko has done a wonderful job of making an electronic Dominion that closely resembles a face-to-face experience. And remember that they did make the text logs for us hard-core Dominion players!
In terms of optimization, JavaScript as a language is a decade or so behind its more mature counterparts like Java and (Objective-)C that are used to write native phone apps. As JavaScript engines get better, so will the performance of HTML5 games.
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I'm not really feeling the same level of rage myself. To me it looks like they wanted to launch this week for GenCon / Dark Ages and they took a gamble. One that did not pay off, since it seems the platform was more popular than they anticipated. I suspect that a lot more than the 6,000 or so Isotropic users were trying to get on. They probably should have done an open beta from the start and done a stress test. Or "sharded" from the start with named rooms, so that you can play with your friends, but things aren't screwed.
I'm glad they went back to Beta, if only so I can stop trying every 30 minutes or so to sign on. That's really all that bothered me about this delay. I had not invested any money yet, so I don't feel like they owe me anything. Other than the hour or so I spent failing at Captchas, this is not any different from my perspective than if the release got delayed a month. If I'm super excited about a movie or a new novel, and then I find out it's delayed... even if there's no good reason, I don't immediately pull a 180 and swear off that director / author / whatever.
It sounds like this Beta is open, so they'll be able to ease people into it. Maybe even a quiet transition into live, so as to reduce the launch day load.
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
Yeah, I was assuming I was going to be buying it all no matter what right up until today....
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To be fair, Goko Dominion is not really all that bad. Sure it's somewhat buggy and its developers didn't build it with security in mind (which is unfortunate), but it does use bleeding-edge technologies like HTML5. (I'm not sure what their server is running, but I suspect that it's something like Node.js with a MongoDB backend.) The graphics and animation are far superior to anything we've seen thus far, making it more appealing to the casual Dominion player. Isotropic has its place as a "gitrdone" interface for Dominion, but playing on Isotropic is a significantly different experience than playing with real cards. I think Goko has done a wonderful job of making an electronic Dominion that closely resembles a face-to-face experience. And remember that they did make the text logs for us hard-core Dominion players!
In terms of optimization, JavaScript as a language is a decade or so behind its more mature counterparts like Java and (Objective-)C that are used to write native phone apps. As JavaScript engines get better, so will the performance of HTML5 games.
Agree with most of what you said. Javascript and Java are both 17 years old. The JS implementations are in different states of maturity. Chrome's V8 JsVM is amazing and is the foundation for NodeJS, while IE's JsVM is embarrassingly bad. I've been coding in both for about 15 years and wouldn't say JS is decade behind Java in any way.
I was lucky enough to see this talk on V8 live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJPdhx5zTaw
It covers some really impressive performance tuning you can do in Javascript.
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
Yeah, I was assuming I was going to be buying it all no matter what right up until today....
Why would you not now? It's back into beta so all of the issues will, hopefully, be fixed
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It's back into beta so all of the issues will, hopefully, be fixed
There will now be a short pause for hysterical laughter.
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
Yeah, I was assuming I was going to be buying it all no matter what right up until today....
Why would you not now? It's back into beta so all of the issues will, hopefully, be fixed
Notsureifserious.gif
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
Yeah, I was assuming I was going to be buying it all no matter what right up until today....
Why would you not now? It's back into beta so all of the issues will, hopefully, be fixed
Notsureifserious.gif
Shouldn't that be a .jpg?
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I'm not personally upset or offended since I will almost certainly buy it no matter what.
My fear is that through a combination of Goko's bumbling and bad press, the online version will be unpopular so I won't be able to play as many games vs. other humans, or that the lack of popularity will also mean Goko won't spend any resources perfecting it.
Yeah, I was assuming I was going to be buying it all no matter what right up until today....
Why would you not now? It's back into beta so all of the issues will, hopefully, be fixed
Why would I not buy it?
1/ Because $85 is about double what I think a reasonable price is. I would probably still buy it if it was an absolutely top notch implementation (it seems pretty clear it is not). I might still buy this substandard implementation if it were half way reasonably priced (which IMO it is not).
2/ Also because the security concerns raised elsewhere on this website disincline me from having any financial interactions with the company.
3/ Also no off-line and no iOS implementation. What do you think about paying $85 for a game you can only play online. What if the company goes broke? You'd have no way to play the game you paid $85 for.
4/ But the biggest reason for me personally not to buy it is the stuff about micro transactions being included in the adventure mode. If that stuff is all correct as reported.... I really have a strong reaction against that sort of business practice....
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Wait a minute, if $85 is double what you think a reasonable price is and you would buy it if it were "halfway reasonably priced" ... you should buy it, right?
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Hmm. Seems I missed the launch and it went back Beta. I guess that is a good thing?
But who did they hire to do the programming? A bunch of college grads who only took a course or two in programming?
I mean, isn't password security a standard thing nowadays? And this client and server workload division should also be something standard in online gaming.
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Wait a minute, if $85 is double what you think a reasonable price is and you would buy it if it were "halfway reasonably priced" ... you should buy it, right?
By my calculations, if you buy in the smallest batches of gokoins ($1 = 10 gokoins), making each set $6, that should be $78 overall, not including Guilds. It'd be cheaper if you bought the gokoins in bulk.
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Wait a minute, if $85 is double what you think a reasonable price is and you would buy it if it were "halfway reasonably priced" ... you should buy it, right?
"Why, this is excellent" - twelfth night
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Wait a minute, if $85 is double what you think a reasonable price is and you would buy it if it were "halfway reasonably priced" ... you should buy it, right?
Ha! Good point. Looks like I just talked myself into the opposite position....
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By my calculations, if you buy in the smallest batches of gokoins ($1 = 10 gokoins), making each set $6, that should be $78 overall, not including Guilds. It'd be cheaper if you bought the gokoins in bulk.
How many purchases are required to get everything?
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its $75 if you buy a 580 ($50), a 230 ($20)and a 50 pack ($5), since you need 840 coins
Note: added bold items
It was calculated that there will be 14 card packs (including Guilds) at 60 coins per pack
So buying those bulk coin packs will get you enough coin for everything @$75
And you would have 20 coins left over for all those zaps!
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its $75 if you buy a 580 ($50), a 230 ($20)and a 50 pack ($5), since you need 840 coins
Note: added bold items
It was calculated that there will be 14 card packs (including Guilds) at 60 coins per pack
So buying those bulk coin packs will get you enough coin for everything @$75
And you would have 20 coins left over for all those zaps!
No there wouldn't.
Goko seems to have three currencies in place.
Gokoins - you buy these, and use them to acquire expansions
Dominion coins - you earn these through playing, and use them to acquire zaps/other things
Victory points - you earn these in the adventure mode, and use them to acquire promo cards
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Perhaps this is all happening to delay launch until after Iso goes down so we all get the jones and pay whatever we have in our bank accounts to play a product that is clearly not "beautifully executed."
As angry as I am, I might still have my credit card in my hand when this thing finally goes live, and I kinda hate myself for that.
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its $75 if you buy a 580 ($50), a 230 ($20)and a 50 pack ($5), since you need 840 coins
Note: added bold items
It was calculated that there will be 14 card packs (including Guilds) at 60 coins per pack
So buying those bulk coin packs will get you enough coin for everything @$75
And you would have 20 coins left over for all those zaps!
No there wouldn't.
Goko seems to have three currencies in place.
Gokoins - you buy these, and use them to acquire expansions
Dominion coins - you earn these through playing, and use them to acquire zaps/other things
Victory points - you earn these in the adventure mode, and use them to acquire promo cards
Demented...! Not the lest bad thing about all of this is how infantile it seems. Gokoins? Have I landed back in the middle of grade 3...?
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As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. [...]
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
Just to put things into perspective, here is a post from dougz from april 2012, proving that isotropic (even recently!) had also quite severe bugs (similar to 3. above):
Turns out that (until last night) the server didn't actually check to see if you had enough money to buy the card you asked to buy. Normally it's not a problem because the interface only makes cards clickable if you can afford them, but if you hack the javascript, or insert a proxy that modifies the request on the way to the server (as bdhcompany did) it would happily sell you any card in the supply whether you had the money for it or not. Whoops!
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Just to put things into perspective, here is a post from dougz from april 2012, proving that isotropic (even recently!) had also quite severe bugs (similar to 3. above):
I think for me it's that it all adds up.
This "don't-trust-the-client"-thing is, yeah, it can happen, but, especially if you target a large audience, you should have thought on this. But fix it, and it's ok. But than it's not only that, one day later you read in the beta-forum about the JS-injection. Ok, JS-injection maybe also can happen somewhere in a complex product. Should not, but probably can. But it was not because of something complex, where you send a malformed request and in some weird case you get an injection. It's in the CHAT. When you type in it. Hello?
So of course you can fix this by probably just call the JS-method that escapes the string and it is done. But how can I believe that there was any policy concerning security? And what can me convice that there is one now? That they have fixed the obvious bugs told them? Probably it's that I read two days later that they send the passwords in plain text...
But at least, compared to isotropic, they only want my credit card number, and not the association of an email-adress that only exists for dominon-related purposes...
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Just to put things into perspective, here is a post from dougz from april 2012, proving that isotropic (even recently!) had also quite severe bugs (similar to 3. above):
I think for me it's that it all adds up.
This "don't-trust-the-client"-thing is, yeah, it can happen, but, especially if you target a large audience, you should have thought on this. But fix it, and it's ok. But than it's not only that, one day later you read in the beta-forum about the JS-injection. Ok, JS-injection maybe also can happen somewhere in a complex product. Should not, but probably can. But it was not because of something complex, where you send a malformed request and in some weird case you get an injection. It's in the CHAT. When you type in it. Hello?
So of course you can fix this by probably just call the JS-method that escapes the string and it is done. But how can I believe that there was any policy concerning security? And what can me convice that there is one now? That they have fixed the obvious bugs told them? Probably it's that I read two days later that they send the passwords in plain text...
Yeah - this stuff happens. Developers write buggy code. Solo developers without dedicated QA teams working for free have a little leniency in my mind.
Teams of people who have been working for a year launching a large scale commercial product - have less. Being willing to launch your product with a known security hole that is trivial to exploit is just irresponsible. Embedding javascript in your chat doesn't exactly require throwing a proxy in between the client and the server - which is what I'm assuming blueblimp did for his don't trust the client attack. And since you can redirect someone to ANY website - if your browser has any holes (and they all do right? those pwn2own competitions always have zero day exploits released) then you've got some risk of your computer being compromised.
And that's just the truly dangerous attacks. There's also the potential PR impact from a mainstream news outlet was redirected to lemonparty because a 15 year old (or a 33 year old who has the emotional maturity of a 15 year old) decided to copy / paste some crap from the internet.
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As far as I understand it the following are concerns:
1. [...]
3. the game server doesn't validate messages from the client - so you can do things like play bridges from the supply that you don't own - or just buy colonies without enough money for them.
Just to put things into perspective, here is a post from dougz from april 2012, proving that isotropic (even recently!) had also quite severe bugs (similar to 3. above):
Turns out that (until last night) the server didn't actually check to see if you had enough money to buy the card you asked to buy. Normally it's not a problem because the interface only makes cards clickable if you can afford them, but if you hack the javascript, or insert a proxy that modifies the request on the way to the server (as bdhcompany did) it would happily sell you any card in the supply whether you had the money for it or not. Whoops!
Yeah but as I understand it dougz started iso as a private testing tool / hobby project, so he can be forgiven for trusting the client a bit more than is wise.
Funsockets on the other hand is purporting to create an entire ecosystem for online gaming, so you'd expect them to know the rules of Online Game Dev 101.
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Being willing to launch your product with a known security hole that is trivial to exploit is just irresponsible.
This is the most relevant part to me.
The number of issues raised by beta testers that weren't addressed prior to launch attempt No. 1 is alarming.
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Teams of people who have been working for a year launching a large scale commercial product - have less. Being willing to launch your product with a known security hole that is trivial to exploit is just irresponsible. Embedding javascript in your chat doesn't exactly require throwing a proxy in between the client and the server - which is what I'm assuming blueblimp did for his don't trust the client attack. And since you can redirect someone to ANY website - if your browser has any holes (and they all do right? those pwn2own competitions always have zero day exploits released) then you've got some risk of your computer being compromised.
It's as easy as using chrome dev tools. You have a console and are able to monitor websocket traffic. MiM is sometimes difficult with SSL (when its being used), but firebug and chrome dev tools make it all a one stop shop these days :)
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I'm wondering, if I should sign up for the beta? Are the security concerns still around?
I don't want to login to their beta or their final product until these are really addressed.
Also of note is that aside from the initial press release reporting from the mainstream press, the dud that happens afterwards is much less reported. Probably fewer than 10 (at least from Google search, there's 3 articles reporting the revert back to beta).