Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: Blooki on July 29, 2011, 12:20:21 am

Title: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: Blooki on July 29, 2011, 12:20:21 am
timchen the Puzzlemaster, Bob the Village Idiot, Nhu Bi the Noob and Zero R. Hero are playing their first Dominion match. They understand and abide by the rules perfectly, but their decisions and strategies are questionable to say the least. Though you have to give them credit for experimenting and trying to learn on their own. Throughout the entirety of the game, other than Curse, no two players have gained cards of the same name.

After many clumsy turns, Zero R. Hero realizes at the beginning of his turn that he can end the game on piles by buying the final curse although he is unsure if that will give him the victory. You see, this match has reached a curious game state. All four of our players are holding no cards in their hands and have no cards in their draw or discard decks.

Uninterested in such an anomaly, Zero R. Hero proceeds to buy the final curse. Ironically, the supply stacks of Sea Hag, Young Witch, Mountebank, Familiar, Torturer and Jester all remain untouched as they have been all game.

Our foursome then begins to tally up their points only to discover that they've all tied at a score of -1!!! If only our hero could've lived up to his name, victory would have been his.

How is this possible?

Oh yeah, no Masquerade (you're not getting by that gain constraint that easily ;)).
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: chwhite on July 29, 2011, 12:57:07 am
One person King's Courted an Island, setting aside three Curses; one person has a Curse under his/her Native Village mat, another set aside one last turn from Haven, leaving Zero R Hero.

Now we just need to figure out how exactly they got to this game state with no cards. I am assuming Saboteur and some trashers more expensive than Chapel (so they can be hit by the Sab) are involved. Swindler might help as well.  I will also go out on a limb and guess that the Haven player actually has a few Havens out, at least one of which is holding said Saboteur.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: Blooki on July 29, 2011, 01:11:12 am
::sigh:: Guess I'm going to have to make it harder.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: HockeyHippo on July 29, 2011, 11:09:21 am
I love these puzzles! I'm pretty bad at them, just at first glances though. I haven't sat down and really tried hard to figure them out, but I love reading the answers! :P
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: mischiefmaker on August 04, 2011, 08:41:04 pm
Hang on a second, Blooki -- either I'm missing something, or this puzzle's a bit harder than we think. chwhite's solution contains Island, King's Court, Native Village, Haven, and at least one more card to do all the trashing. The puzzle specified 6 of the cards in the Supply (Witch, Young Witch, Jester, Mountebank, Familiar, Torturer); that means any solution can have at most one more kingdom card, for a total of 11 with a Bane.

If that card is Saboteur, there's no way to trash the Native Village, starting Estates/Coppers, or other Curses that would be required to empty the Curse pile.

If that card is Swindler, who has the Swindler? Zero can't have it, else it would be in his hand. If the Native Village player has it, there's no way to remove the Native Village from his deck. Same for the Island/KC player (who would have KC/swindler in hand). If the Haven player has it, he can swindle the NV and KC from the other two players, but in order to get rid of those cards entirely, he would have to exhaust all KC, NV, and Estate, which causes a 3-pile ending, plus there's no way to remove his own Estates and Coppers.

I'm working on an alternate solution, but no luck so far.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: chwhite on August 04, 2011, 08:45:02 pm
Hang on a second, Blooki -- either I'm missing something, or this puzzle's a bit harder than we think. chwhite's solution contains Island, King's Court, Native Village, Haven, and at least one more card to do all the trashing. The puzzle specified 6 of the cards in the Supply (Witch, Young Witch, Jester, Mountebank, Familiar, Torturer); that means any solution can have at most one more kingdom card, for a total of 11 with a Bane.

If that card is Saboteur, there's no way to trash the Native Village, starting Estates/Coppers, or other Curses that would be required to empty the Curse pile.

If that card is Swindler, who has the Swindler? Zero can't have it, else it would be in his hand. If the Native Village player has it, there's no way to remove the Native Village from his deck. Same for the Island/KC player (who would have KC/swindler in hand). If the Haven player has it, he can swindle the NV and KC from the other two players, but in order to get rid of those cards entirely, he would have to exhaust all KC, NV, and Estate, which causes a 3-pile ending, plus there's no way to remove his own Estates and Coppers.

I'm working on an alternate solution, but no luck so far.


FWIW, I posted my solution before Blooki edited it to specify the six unbought stacks.  I haven't been able to figure out a good solution with that limitation.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: Blooki on August 05, 2011, 02:48:06 pm
Yeah, chwhite's solution pretty much got the gist of the puzzle. It was informal enough that I felt the puzzle was still in an unsolved status. I added the 6 cursing stacks to narrow the solution to what I imagine would be a unique one (or close to it). I'll post it as a spoiler as soon as I get a chance. Meanwhile, if anybody's still enjoying the puzzle, happy solving!
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: mischiefmaker on August 05, 2011, 03:02:18 pm
OK, I think I have a solution.


The other kingdom cards: Native Village, Haven, Bishop, Black Market, (any).

P1 buys BM and pulls the following cards: Island, King's Court, Thief/Pirate Ship, any +actions card, militia/goons/ghost ship, Chapel. He buys 3 curses and uses KC/Island to set them aside; then he plays village/militia/thief repeatedly.

P2, meanwhile, buys Native Village and 4 curses. He sets aside his 3 estates and 4 curses.

P3 buys 5 Havens, 4 curses, and a Bishop.

P4 is Zero R. Hero, who buys nothing whatsoever.

At the end of P1's thiefing spree, the decks look like this:
P1: KC, Thief, Village, Militia, Chapel, starting deck (he can buy KC by drawing village/militia/BM/3 copper). He buys 8 more curses, leaving one, then uses Chapel to trash all other cards, so his deck is just Chapel.
P2: Native Village, 2 copper (he can't get rid of the last two, because he's always holding them in in his hand, and are thus protected from Thief).
P3: 5 Haven, 4 Curse, Bishop.
P4: 3 estate.

P3 then alternates turns of (draw 4 Haven + Bishop, play 4 haven, drawing 4 curse, play bishop, trashing nothing) with (do nothing). He does this three times, gaining 3 VP. Since each other player has at most 3 cards, they now have 0 cards.

P3 draws 5 Haven, and plays them all, setting aside 4 curses and a Bishop. In his cleanup phase, he draws 0 cards.

On the next turn, P4 buys the final curse, ending the game.


This puzzle was deceptively tricky, Blooki! The gist of it is fairly straightforward, but putting together the mechanics was a lot harder than I expected.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: mischiefmaker on August 05, 2011, 03:06:35 pm
Oops, one addendum: P1 buys out two other piles (BM and any other non-kingdom card pile), then trashes all of those purchases with Chapel.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: Blooki on August 06, 2011, 04:26:56 pm
OK, I think I have a solution.


The other kingdom cards: Native Village, Haven, Bishop, Black Market, (any).

P1 buys BM and pulls the following cards: Island, King's Court, Thief/Pirate Ship, any +actions card, militia/goons/ghost ship, Chapel. He buys 3 curses and uses KC/Island to set them aside; then he plays village/militia/thief repeatedly.

P2, meanwhile, buys Native Village and 4 curses. He sets aside his 3 estates and 4 curses.

P3 buys 5 Havens, 4 curses, and a Bishop.

P4 is Zero R. Hero, who buys nothing whatsoever.

At the end of P1's thiefing spree, the decks look like this:
P1: KC, Thief, Village, Militia, Chapel, starting deck (he can buy KC by drawing village/militia/BM/3 copper). He buys 8 more curses, leaving one, then uses Chapel to trash all other cards, so his deck is just Chapel.
P2: Native Village, 2 copper (he can't get rid of the last two, because he's always holding them in in his hand, and are thus protected from Thief).
P3: 5 Haven, 4 Curse, Bishop.
P4: 3 estate.

P3 then alternates turns of (draw 4 Haven + Bishop, play 4 haven, drawing 4 curse, play bishop, trashing nothing) with (do nothing). He does this three times, gaining 3 VP. Since each other player has at most 3 cards, they now have 0 cards.

P3 draws 5 Haven, and plays them all, setting aside 4 curses and a Bishop. In his cleanup phase, he draws 0 cards.

On the next turn, P4 buys the final curse, ending the game.


This puzzle was deceptively tricky, Blooki! The gist of it is fairly straightforward, but putting together the mechanics was a lot harder than I expected.

Well-done! You've solved it!

If you're not sick of the puzzle yet and want an extra challenge, my solution has all but 7 curses in the trash pile.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: mischiefmaker on August 07, 2011, 02:13:13 am
If you're not sick of the puzzle yet and want an extra challenge, my solution has all but 7 curses in the trash pile.
Ah, neat. I think I have it:

The last card in the Kingdom is an Embargo. P2 only buys 1 curse, and puts it on the Native Village mat; P3 only buys 2 curses.

Instead of a Militia, P1 buys a Torturer, and plays Village/King's Court-Torturer/Thief; all other players choose to discard, allowing the Thief to trash all of their treasure. Thus, at the end of the thiefing, the other players' decks look like this:

P2: Native Village
P3: 3 Haven, 2 Curse, Bishop
P4: 3 Estate

P1 then plays Village/KC-Torturer/Swindler, swindling P2's Native Village and P4's 3 estates to Embargoes, which subsequently get played and trashed. P1 trashes everything with his Chapel, then P3 plays Bishop to allow him to trash the Chapel.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: Blooki on August 08, 2011, 01:50:31 am
If you're not sick of the puzzle yet and want an extra challenge, my solution has all but 7 curses in the trash pile.
Ah, neat. I think I have it:

The last card in the Kingdom is an Embargo. P2 only buys 1 curse, and puts it on the Native Village mat; P3 only buys 2 curses.

Instead of a Militia, P1 buys a Torturer, and plays Village/King's Court-Torturer/Thief; all other players choose to discard, allowing the Thief to trash all of their treasure. Thus, at the end of the thiefing, the other players' decks look like this:

P2: Native Village
P3: 3 Haven, 2 Curse, Bishop
P4: 3 Estate

P1 then plays Village/KC-Torturer/Swindler, swindling P2's Native Village and P4's 3 estates to Embargoes, which subsequently get played and trashed. P1 trashes everything with his Chapel, then P3 plays Bishop to allow him to trash the Chapel.


Great job! Replace Torturer (since the supply pile is full) w/ Vault and you're set.
Title: Re: Blooki's Puzzle #4 - Covert Curses
Post by: mischiefmaker on August 08, 2011, 07:41:59 pm
Ah yes, either Torturer or Vault can come from the Black Market. Since you have a KC, you only need one to get the opponents to discard their entire hand.