I guess an obvious combo is Trader/Feodum.
I'm not thrilled about the idea of a deck filled with Ruins. There must be a lot of trashing to counteract that. Here's hoping!
Not quite as bad as Curses, but still pretty bad! Boards with Cursing Attacks and Ruining Attacks are going to be interesting.Yeah. It's going to be interesting to have to choose between witch and cultist. Maybe it comes down to: is my opponent going to be able to benefit from the ruins (because, maybe, fishing village is on the board).
Someone with lots of feodums? ;-)I guess an obvious combo is Trader/Feodum.
I'm not thrilled about the idea of a deck filled with Ruins. There must be a lot of trashing to counteract that. Here's hoping!
Does it give you 7 silvers? Who really needs 7 silvers?
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
I am confused about why it was necessary to put verbiage on the card explicitly giving me permission to play another Cultist. I suppose the real question is why would I think that i couldn't?
I am confused about why it was necessary to put verbiage on the card explicitly giving me permission to play another Cultist. I suppose the real question is why would I think that i couldn't?
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
I see, thanks for the clarification. 1 action is required to play the 1st Cultist but all subsequent cultists from the same turn consume no further actions, right?
I wonder what the other "ruined" cards are going to be?
Ruined Village: +1 Action
Ruined Laboratory: +1 Card
Ruined Wodcutter: + $1
Looters and Ruins - the design space for fan cards just got much bigger!
Ruined Market gives you another Buy. That way, you don't just buy Scout. You can buy something else, too.
Looters and Ruins - the design space for fan cards just got much bigger!
SO you can actually buy ruins if you want, right? Like in a Goons or Garden deck? Could this make Goons-Scrying Pool viable?
Ruins are Actions so they're much worse than curses in any of the following decks: Golem, Farming Village, Hunting Party (imagine having 5 different kinds of ruins thrown at your HP deck!)
To preempt an inevitable rules question: as far as I remember, Ruins are like Prizes when Ambassadored, in that they aren't "gained" or "returned" from the Supply in a normal sense.
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
Thoughts on feodum, in order:
1. How do you pronounce feodum?
2. Bureaucrat got buffed!
3. What the hell is a feodum?
4. That's going to be so much fun.
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
But the ruin on top may not match the one being ambassadored.To preempt an inevitable rules question: as far as I remember, Ruins are like Prizes when Ambassadored, in that they aren't "gained" or "returned" from the Supply in a normal sense.
Why wouldn't they be treated like curses? That makes more sense to me than treating them like prizes. They are in the supply and can be bought unlike prizes.
To preempt an inevitable rules question: as far as I remember, Ruins are like Prizes when Ambassadored, in that they aren't "gained" or "returned" from the Supply in a normal sense.
Why wouldn't they be treated like curses? That makes more sense to me than treating them like prizes. They are in the supply and can be bought unlike prizes.
Ruined Market gives you another Buy. That way, you don't just buy Scout. You can buy something else, too.
Like, you can buy a 2 Ruins INSTEAD of a scout.
To preempt an inevitable rules question: as far as I remember, Ruins are like Prizes when Ambassadored, in that they aren't "gained" or "returned" from the Supply in a normal sense.
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
3. What the hell is a feodum?
Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
It could be Throne Roomed or King's Courted.
But you obviously drew a crappy hand if that's a viable option for you.
I'm not totally sure, and the FAQ obviously elaborates more on the issue, but it's because all the Ruins are in a single stack, and randomized. You don't necessarily give out Ruined Markets or Ruined ___ or Ruined ___, you just give out whatever is on top.
The Ruins pile, when present, is a supply pile. You can only buy/Workshop/etc. the top card. If it's empty that counts towards game end.
You can only Ambassador two Ruins at once if they have the same name. When you Ambassador a Ruined Market, you return it to the top of the pile. Then the player to your left gains one. Then the player to their left may or may not gain one, depending on whether or not the next Ruins is a Ruined Market.
What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Well there's a difference. Ignore KC, TR, conspirator, HoP, peddler, etc. Then there's no reason to play the +action. There's no detriment.Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
I think it has to make sense word wise.
How does one ruin an Island? Other than the Dharma guys fom Lost I find it hard.
And how do you ruin a Pawn?!?
So would you buy a Ruined Market if there's no other +Buy in the kingdom? Assuming it was the one on top, you'd have to overspend for it.There are times I've bought council room when I could draw my deck, just for the +buy. And that's worse than ruined market. So yes.
On the flip side, if the ruins pile is out, so is a Looter, so you'll probably get one whether you want it or not. But given shuffle luck, maybe you just keep getting Ruined Scouts instead and you really need that buy...
I could see it happening.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Rethinking my earlier guess -
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card of equal cost that is not a treasure.
But I like ruined Chancellor, if just for the potential artwork.
Have you guys thought about the fact that cards with a Trash clause on the bottom could potentially turn up in sets with no trasher?
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Oh, Feodum and Trusty Steed.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Well there's a difference. Ignore KC, TR, conspirator, HoP, peddler, etc. Then there's no reason to play the +action. There's no detriment.Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
Sometimes, however, you do want to play the +1 card.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
Oh, Feodum and Trusty Steed.
And the long-awaited buff to Explorer.
And the long-awaited buff to Explorer.
Ruinses, it turns out, are a pile of cards like Curses, with three ways to get them, besides just buying them or something. They only show up in games with a Looter, which is a word you may have been wondering about on Cultist. There are five different ones (ten copies each) and they’re shuffled together, I’m not making this up.
As with Curses you only use ten total per opponent. Not two of each per opponent, just whatever random mix you got. So when you play Cultist, your opponent will get one of these five cards. You will know which one is on top of the Ruins pile, but not what’s under it. You won’t really care; even though some are worse than others, they’re all bad.
Oh, Feodum and Trusty Steed.
And the long-awaited buff to Explorer.
A situation where you would choose NOT to reveal a Province?
oh, and Ruined Tournament is how you get the booby prizes, like Pony and Bag of Copper.
Well there's a difference. Ignore KC, TR, conspirator, HoP, peddler, etc. Then there's no reason to play the +action. There's no detriment.Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
Sometimes, however, you do want to play the +1 card.
Ruined Chancellor: You may put your hand into the discard pile.What could the weird one be?
Ruined Monument - +.1 VP
Ruined Gardens - Worth one VP for every 30 cards in your deck.
Ruined Golem - Play one action from your deck
Ruined Library - Draw up to five cards in hand
Ruined Militia - Opponent discards down to five cards in hand
Ruined Pawn - Choose 1: +1 Buy
Ruined Island - 1 VP. You may set this aside with another card, but they will NOT be returned to your deck at the end of the game.
This game deserves its own thread, with a prize for the right guess.
I could see Ruined Chancellor being the "+$1" Ruin, actually.
Ruined Chapel- "Trash a card from your hand", is probably too good to be a Ruin, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
Ruined Bureaucrat- "Gain a Copper, putting it on your deck."
Ruined Feast- "Trash this card."
Thirding or fourthing the sentiment that all the Ruins will be taken from base set cards.
(EDIT: "Warning. 11 new replies have been made." Yikes.)
A free Silver? You want to buy the Feoda first, then Embargo the Silver pile 10 times, and then somehow get like $9 and 3 buys with Trader in hand. Not exactly practical, but definitely awesome.
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Yes! KC-Cultist means that you are three times allowed to play another Cultist (no, not allowed to play three times, I see that). That's a really flippin' allowed choice
Outside of Feoda being an awesome word, Donald has verified that the plural of Ruins is Ruinses. Brilliant.
CUltist-Conspirator seems like a thing. Or Cultist-Minion. Of course Ruins kinda trash Minion decks.
Yes! KC-Cultist means that you are three times allowed to play another Cultist (no, not allowed to play three times, I see that). That's a really flippin' allowed choice
Outside of Feoda being an awesome word, Donald has verified that the plural of Ruins is Ruinses. Brilliant.
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Interesting. I was thinking it looks more like an altered Witch than Laboratory. I think it will be hard to get a bunch of Cultists in one deck, especially if your opponents also get them and give out Ruins. I think the Lab-like effect will be pretty minimal in most games. But, it's +2 Cards and give out Ruins is a lot like Witch, with the bonuses of being able to play Cultists without actions and on-trash benefits showing how much weaker giving Ruins are than giving Curses.
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Interesting. I was thinking it looks more like an altered Witch than Laboratory. I think it will be hard to get a bunch of Cultists in one deck, especially if your opponents also get them and give out Ruins. I think the Lab-like effect will be pretty minimal in most games. But, it's +2 Cards and give out Ruins is a lot like Witch, with the bonuses of being able to play Cultists without actions and on-trash benefits showing how much weaker giving Ruins are than giving Curses.
It's kind of both, which is why I think it's so strong. I mean, imagine if Witch let you play another Witch if you had one it hand. That would be a significant buff to an already super powerful card, right? Well, Cultist isn't giving out Curses, but it's giving out junk, and you trash it for +3 Cards if you want. Pretty strong!
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Also! I noticed that Donald basically said that there were 3 looter cards in Dark Ages. Yay.
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Yeah, but I don't see this being that viable, usually. By the time you're chaining at least 3 in one play, or by the time you're pretty much guaranteed to get 2 in one play, ruinses are gonna be gone. Especially considering you're going to be getting ruinses as well. And then they're just worse labs, except for the trashing bit.
It seems like you need such a good cultist density. Maybe if the board had chapel/university.
Also! I noticed that Donald basically said that there were 3 looter cards in Dark Ages. Yay.
Could there be non-attack looters? Such as:
Type: Victory-Looter
$5
+4VP
When you buy this gain a ruins.
I kind of wish that Ruins cost $1…just to really jack with Upgrade and Remake.
So, Cultist looks really strong. Really, it's a Laboratory with a bunch of other benefits, including a Curse variant attack. It's a Laboratory because you can keep playing copies of it (provided you have them, sort of like Lab), which is easier because it's drawing cards. It's not completely equivalent to Lab, because you can't play any other Actions, but then it has the benefit of giving your opponents these mostly useless cards. Oh, and you can trash it for a nice pay off.
Yeah, but I don't see this being that viable, usually. By the time you're chaining at least 3 in one play, or by the time you're pretty much guaranteed to get 2 in one play, ruinses are gonna be gone. Especially considering you're going to be getting ruinses as well. And then they're just worse labs, except for the trashing bit.
It seems like you need such a good cultist density. Maybe if the board had chapel/university.
Sure, but if you do get that density quickly, probably with a nice early trasher or something, the snowball effect is going to be so huge.
Prediction: Cultists are going to be pretty decent, but not to the level of Witch or Mountebank. Probably somewhere around #6 in the best $5 cards list.
Answer to the Ruins / Ambassador question, from Donald:QuoteThe Ruins pile, when present, is a supply pile. You can only buy/Workshop/etc. the top card. If it's empty that counts towards game end.
You can only Ambassador two Ruins at once if they have the same name. When you Ambassador a Ruined Market, you return it to the top of the pile. Then the player to your left gains one. Then the player to their left may or may not gain one, depending on whether or not the next Ruins is a Ruined Market.
OK, simulators. In the Jack/Feodum deck, do you want one or two Jacks before you start on the Feodums?
Rules question! I play village cultist cultist. Do I have an action available to me? The ways I see it are
1)No you played 2 actions.
2) Yes village gave you 2 you played a cultist for one and as part of cultists resolution you got to play another
Don't have time to read the whole thread, so apologies if this was already brought up, but:
With Feodum around, will we get a rule clarification on whether Silvers (and, by extension, other money cards) are a pile that can/cannot be emptied?
Don't have time to read the whole thread, so apologies if this was already brought up, but:
With Feodum around, will we get a rule clarification on whether Silvers (and, by extension, other money cards) are a pile that can/cannot be emptied?
Yes! KC-Cultist means that you are three times allowed to play another Cultist (no, not allowed to play three times, I see that). That's a really flippin' allowed choice
Outside of Feoda being an awesome word, Donald has verified that the plural of Ruins is Ruinses. Brilliant.
Rules question! I play village cultist cultist. Do I have an action available to me? The ways I see it are
1)No you played 2 actions.
2) Yes village gave you 2 you played a cultist for one and as part of cultists resolution you got to play another
2)
Yes, you have an action. You did not spend an action to play the second Cultist.
Prediction: Cultists are going to be pretty decent, but not to the level of Witch or Mountebank. Probably somewhere around #6 in the best $5 cards list.
Prediction: Cultist won't be in the top 10 of the best $5 cards, but probably the top 20.
Cultist: I don't see how this can be anything but super strong. While Ruins don't hurt nearly as much as Curse, a self-chainable junk-giving card that can find itself, and then gives you a bonus late-game when the Ruins are depleted, is going to dominate games nearly as much as Witch. (This is because the fact Curse being a dead card is usually even more harmful than the -1 VP.) I suspect chaining Cultists is going to be not very common in practice, because if all the players go Cultist like they probably should your deck is going to get junked up and it'll be hard to line them up often. The when-trash bonus, however, is going to be really nice in games with trashing, which balances the fact that the presence of trashing is obviously going to take the sting off of Ruins a bit when it exists.
Love the artwork, by the way. The replication of the artwork on the Grand Market card is really clever, effective, and evocative.
Cultist: I don't see how this can be anything but super strong. While Ruins don't hurt nearly as much as Curse, a self-chainable junk-giving card that can find itself, and then gives you a bonus late-game when the Ruins are depleted, is going to dominate games nearly as much as Witch. (This is because the fact Curse being a dead card is usually even more harmful than the -1 VP.) I suspect chaining Cultists is going to be not very common in practice, because if all the players go Cultist like they probably should your deck is going to get junked up and it'll be hard to line them up often. The when-trash bonus, however, is going to be really nice in games with trashing, which balances the fact that the presence of trashing is obviously going to take the sting off of Ruins a bit when it exists.
Hey look, chwhite and I agree on something!
I predict Cultist will be equivalent, or stronger, than Witch and Mountebank.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
But Ruined Village seems way worse than all the others. With Market and Woodcutter; you may find yourself glad you have that card in hand. With Laboratory, at least you can replace it with another card if you have an action lying around. But Ruined village is just as bad as a Curse/Estate (confusion card), unless you happen to have Horn of Plenty, Conspirator, or Peddler.
Rules question! I play village cultist cultist. Do I have an action available to me? The ways I see it are
1)No you played 2 actions.
2) Yes village gave you 2 you played a cultist for one and as part of cultists resolution you got to play another
2)
Yes, you have an action. You did not spend an action to play the second Cultist.
Pedantic man is here!
It depends on how you choose to play it. When you play the first Cultist, you now have the option to play another Cultist, as a part of resolving the first Cultist. If you do, then afterwards you will still have an action remaining from your Village. But, you could also choose to not play the Cultist as a part of the "you may" clause, and then play a Cultist because you have an extra action from Village. In other words, simply saying "I play Village, Cultist, Cultist" is not enough information to know if you have another action.
Don't have time to read the whole thread, so apologies if this was already brought up, but:
With Feodum around, will we get a rule clarification on whether Silvers (and, by extension, other money cards) are a pile that can/cannot be emptied?
Treasure card piles can be emptied and count toward the end condition. See, for example, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2728.msg44273#msg44273.
Don't have time to read the whole thread, so apologies if this was already brought up, but:
With Feodum around, will we get a rule clarification on whether Silvers (and, by extension, other money cards) are a pile that can/cannot be emptied?
Treasure card piles can be emptied and count toward the end condition. See, for example, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2728.msg44273#msg44273.
I asked my question inartfully. A better question: how big is the Silver pile supposed to be? One set's worth of Silvers, or two (Base + Intrigue)? Or even three (old Base + new Base + Intrigue)? Whatever the answer, there are significant ramifications for Feodum.
The Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion: Intrigue can be combined, since these cards are intended to be in abundant enough supply to not run out.
Upgrade a Cultist into a Gold, Watchtower it, draw it along with 2 other cards.
So when exactly is the date Dark Ages available to buy? Or are we still waiting for the release date?
Upgrade a Cultist into a Gold, Watchtower it, draw it along with 2 other cards.
I'm not sure if you can do that, actually... I think that when you play Upgrade, first you trash the Cultist. At that moment you have to choose to draw 3 cards; before you have gained anything from Upgrade. Then you gain a card, then you can reveal Watchtower.
Upgrade a Cultist into a Gold, Watchtower it, draw it along with 2 other cards.
I'm not sure if you can do that, actually... I think that when you play Upgrade, first you trash the Cultist. At that moment you have to choose to draw 3 cards; before you have gained anything from Upgrade. Then you gain a card, then you can reveal Watchtower.
Still, you get 3 extra cards, and an Action to use them with!
Indeed. Upgrade and Lookout will both be great here; because they are the (so far) non-terminal trashers.
Indeed. Upgrade and Lookout will both be great here; because they are the (so far) non-terminal trashers.
Also apprentice.
Indeed. Upgrade and Lookout will both be great here; because they are the (so far) non-terminal trashers.
Also apprentice.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
So can +1 action, KC turns it into a village minus the draw
Upgrade a Cultist into a Gold, Watchtower it, draw it along with 2 other cards.
I'm not sure if you can do that, actually... I think that when you play Upgrade, first you trash the Cultist. At that moment you have to choose to draw 3 cards; before you have gained anything from Upgrade. Then you gain a card, then you can reveal Watchtower.
My vote is that the watchtower reaction goes along with the trashing event, then comes the drawing three cards, so you could get that gold
+1 Card, +1 Action, Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?
If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?
So when exactly is the date Dark Ages available to buy? Or are we still waiting for the release date?
Well it's technically available to buy now; I've pre-ordered my copy from Boards & Bits (edit: and I know there are some other sites taking pre-orders on it now). It's supposed to actually release at a gaming convention (pretty sure it's GenCon but not sure enough to just say it :P) next week, with general availability (hopefully) soon to follow.
If the Shelter is going to not be worth any points, what's the point of making it a Victory type card? Just to make it feel better replacing Estate or something?
For Scout obviously...
Now, what everybody was really wondering--how do these cards combo with Scout? (That's all I care about.)
Feodum is a Victory card, and Scout works on Victory cards. Perfect! That's called synergy, people.
Cultist gives other players Ruins cards. Scout can't scoop up Ruins cards (not that we know of... yet). But Scout can't scoop up Curses either! So really it's no worse.
Ruined Market gives you another Buy. That way, you don't just buy Scout. You can buy something else, too.
So can +1 action, KC turns it into a village minus the draw
No, TR would turn the +1 action ruin into a village minus the draw. With KC, it's a Crossroads minus the draw.
If a cultist chain is set up correctly (we'll figure out how to do that in a couple weeks),
Bizarro question for the day:
Can Ruins show up in the Black Market deck? That'd suck almost as bad as getting Treasure Map.
Well there's a difference. Ignore KC, TR, conspirator, HoP, peddler, etc. Then there's no reason to play the +action. There's no detriment.Ok, so the Ruined Lab variant is obvious: +1 Card
And, the ruined terminal Silver (no idea which one he'll pick) is going to be +$1.
The interesting question is: will the Ruined Village be +2 Actions or just +1 Action? I'm guessing +2 because outside of some Conspirator niche cases, an action that does nothing has no redeeming quality.
+1 card has no redeeming qualities, either.
Sometimes, however, you do want to play the +1 card.
I think the distinction is that "+1 Buy" enables you to get some benefit out of having the card in your deck, however niche a situation it might be when you want it. But "+1 Card" (combos with specific other cards aside) only ever gives you what you would have had if you hadn't had it in the first place, so it doesn't really help.
+1 Card - Eats your action.
+1 Action - Eats a card slot.
+1 Buy - Gives you +Buy! Now I can get two Provinces!
+$1 - Gives you a coin! Now I can afford one Province!
Now, nothing says that all the Ruins cards have to be potentially useful, nor that they need to be roughly equivalent in strength. But there IS a fundamental difference between the first two, which require combos to do anything for you, and the last two, which are simply meager benefits.
Page 7 and no one has said it:
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
Ruined Curse: -2 VP :o
Page 7 and no one has said it:I saw steps 1-3 in another thread.
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
Page 7 and no one has said it:I saw steps 1-3 in another thread.
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
It is a really interesting combo though, maybe as good (at least close) as the trader one.
Page 7 and no one has said it:
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
You missed a step of revealing Watchtower a few more times to put all those silvers on top. ;)
Bizarro question for the day:
Can Ruins show up in the Black Market deck? That'd suck almost as bad as getting Treasure Map.
They can't, because they are not part of the kingdom cards, just as Curses, Potions and Platinums can't.
Page 7 and no one has said it:
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
I'll take a shot at predicting the other Ruins.
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card.
Ruined Village: +2 Actions.
Ruined Woodcutter: +1 Coin.
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand.
Ruined Smithy might be +2 Cards and still be sufficiently bad.
Ruined Village could be +1 Action, but that's a card you almost never have any incentive to play. It's incredibly uninteresting. I'd prefer +2 Actions; Discard a card.
Ruined Chapel seems like it would be much more powerful than the others, especially in a Dark Ages-heave setup, so it's the least likely.
How about opening Trader/Embargo, embargoing the Feoda (I just looked up the plural), picking up more Traders and then get a free Silver on most Feoda buys?
A free Silver? You want to buy the Feoda first, then Embargo the Silver pile 10 times, and then somehow get like $9 and 3 buys with Trader in hand. Not exactly practical, but definitely awesome.
I'll take a shot at predicting the other Ruins.
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card.
Ruined Village: +2 Actions.
Ruined Woodcutter: +1 Coin.
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand.
Ruined Smithy might be +2 Cards and still be sufficiently bad.
Ruined Village could be +1 Action, but that's a card you almost never have any incentive to play. It's incredibly uninteresting. I'd prefer +2 Actions; Discard a card.
Ruined Chapel seems like it would be much more powerful than the others, especially in a Dark Ages-heave setup, so it's the least likely.
I'll take a shot at predicting the other Ruins.
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card.
Ruined Village: +2 Actions.
Ruined Woodcutter: +1 Coin.
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand.
Ruined Smithy might be +2 Cards and still be sufficiently bad.
Ruined Village could be +1 Action, but that's a card you almost never have any incentive to play. It's incredibly uninteresting. I'd prefer +2 Actions; Discard a card.
Ruined Chapel seems like it would be much more powerful than the others, especially in a Dark Ages-heave setup, so it's the least likely.
Ruined Chapel: Gain a card from the Trash costing $0.
I think Ruined Village giving +2 Actions is just too good for a Ruins. In almost any Kingdom without a Village; you will be happy to get those.
I'll take a shot at predicting the other Ruins.
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card.
Ruined Village: +2 Actions.
Ruined Woodcutter: +1 Coin.
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand.
Ruined Smithy might be +2 Cards and still be sufficiently bad.
Ruined Village could be +1 Action, but that's a card you almost never have any incentive to play. It's incredibly uninteresting. I'd prefer +2 Actions; Discard a card.
Ruined Chapel seems like it would be much more powerful than the others, especially in a Dark Ages-heave setup, so it's the least likely.
Ruined Chapel: Gain a card from the Trash costing $0.
Wouldn't that be a Ruined Graverobber?
I still don't know how these Ruins cards aren't going to completely screw up your deck. Shelters seem like the most likely answer.
Others have suggested Shelters might allow you to trash Ruins or protect you from Ruins, but what if the Shelters simply give you actions so that you can play the Ruins?
Shelter - $2
Action / Victory
+ 2 Actions
0 VP
I still don't know how these Ruins cards aren't going to completely screw up your deck. Shelters seem like the most likely answer.
Others have suggested Shelters might allow you to trash Ruins or protect you from Ruins, but what if the Shelters simply give you actions so that you can play the Ruins?
Shelter - $2
Action / Victory
+ 2 Actions
0 VP
I'll take a shot at predicting the other Ruins.
Ruined Smithy: +1 Card.
Ruined Village: +2 Actions.
Ruined Woodcutter: +1 Coin.
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card from your hand.
Ruined Smithy might be +2 Cards and still be sufficiently bad.
Ruined Village could be +1 Action, but that's a card you almost never have any incentive to play. It's incredibly uninteresting. I'd prefer +2 Actions; Discard a card.
Ruined Chapel seems like it would be much more powerful than the others, especially in a Dark Ages-heave setup, so it's the least likely.
Ruined Chapel: Gain a card from the Trash costing $0.
Wouldn't that be a Ruined Graverobber?
No. It's doing the opposite of what you want Chapel to do.
By the way, I kind of really want Graverobber as my avatar. Add these to the Avatar library, theory!
I think Ruined Village giving +2 Actions is just too good for a Ruins. In almost any Kingdom without a Village; you will be happy to get those.
Not in most games with junk-giving Attacks, you wouldn't. For instance, any game with Ruins.
Maybe shelters are like Native Villages for Ruins. Like if you get hit by a ruin, you can reveal a shelter to store it instead, and then use shelters to play them at will. Or maybe not.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
Page 7 and no one has said it:I saw steps 1-3 in another thread.
1. Buy Feodom
2. Reveal Watchtower
3. Trash Feodom
4. Profit!
EDIT: And the profit goes on top of your deck.
It is a really interesting combo though, maybe as good (at least close) as the trader one.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
This seems likely, but Shelter should still give 1VP. I don't know why it can't just be a strictly better estate that keeps the otherwise-OP looters in check.
oh, and Ruined Tournament is how you get the booby prizes, like Pony and Bag of Copper.
So what's the fastest way to empty Feoda and silvers? How many turns does it take in solitaire? Sounds like a solo challenge! You could use Gardens as a stand-in on Iso.
Also! I noticed that Donald basically said that there were 3 looter cards in Dark Ages. Yay.
There are three Looter cards.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
This seems likely, but Shelter should still give 1VP. I don't know why it can't just be a strictly better estate that keeps the otherwise-OP looters in check.
Agreed. Ruins are only used if a Looter is in play, right? So how about: if a Looter is in play, the Estate stack is replaced with the Shelter stack. (And starting Estates are replaced with starting Shelters.)
Ruinses, it turns out, are a pile of cards like Curses, with three ways to get them, besides just buying them or something. They only show up in games with a Looter, which is a word you may have been wondering about on Cultist.
(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
And it would mean overall if you played randomly you would barely ever play with Ruins -> 3 cards in ~200?According to the BGG thread, this gives you about a 15% chance of having Ruins in a completely random game. It's identical to the chance of needing VP tokens.
(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
No, see my post above; Donald confirmed that there are 3 Looter cards.QuoteAnd it would mean overall if you played randomly you would barely ever play with Ruins -> 3 cards in ~200?According to the BGG thread, this gives you about a 15% chance of having Ruins in a completely random game. It's identical to the chance of needing VP tokens.
Ruins games look awesome. I'm really looking forward to them.
The cultist vs witch debate... On second thought, I think the answer will be "it depends".
In a mostly BM game, Witch will hold its own because of 3-pile endings on ruins, curses, duchies and win on the extra +10 points from giving out curses. You'll have to play it a little differently than standard BM+Witch and get extra witches because you'll have extra ruins in your deck and you won't want to let the ruins player snowball into a big cultist engine. However, in a setup with trashing, or any engine potential, cultists will win - it'll be pretty easy to transition into a big drawing engine off of village/cultist/trashed cultist that'll let you find Witch's curses and trash them, whereas the post-cursing transition will be a lot harder with Witch.
Actually, that's not right. There would be 3 cards out of 200 kingdom cards, but because of how combinatorics work, if we excuse possible YW bane considerations and Black Market issues, plucking perfectly randomly, a kingdom of 10 would have a 14.33% (okay, I rounded there) chance to get a ruin-er. The quick way to realize why it's not 15%, even though you expect 1.5 of your 10 cards to be ruin-ers (what are the called anyway? Oh, looters), is because sometimes you are going to have more than one, and while that doesn't happen often, it does sometimes.(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
No, see my post above; Donald confirmed that there are 3 Looter cards.QuoteAnd it would mean overall if you played randomly you would barely ever play with Ruins -> 3 cards in ~200?According to the BGG thread, this gives you about a 15% chance of having Ruins in a completely random game. It's identical to the chance of needing VP tokens.
If Guilds gives 13 Kingdom cards, it will be exactly a 15% chance.
(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
No, see my post above; Donald confirmed that there are 3 Looter cards.QuoteAnd it would mean overall if you played randomly you would barely ever play with Ruins -> 3 cards in ~200?According to the BGG thread, this gives you about a 15% chance of having Ruins in a completely random game. It's identical to the chance of needing VP tokens.
If Guilds gives 13 Kingdom cards, it will be exactly a 15% chance.
(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
No, see my post above; Donald confirmed that there are 3 Looter cards.QuoteAnd it would mean overall if you played randomly you would barely ever play with Ruins -> 3 cards in ~200?According to the BGG thread, this gives you about a 15% chance of having Ruins in a completely random game. It's identical to the chance of needing VP tokens.
If Guilds gives 13 Kingdom cards, it will be exactly a 15% chance.
Are you including the promo cards in your count?
Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
What Feodum needs is to always appear in conjunction with a card that can net you 3 Silvers a pop.
Yes, but that's quite a niche and the more cards come out, the less (barring Dark Ages helpers) likely it is that you will have Trader or something else.Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
What Feodum needs is to always appear in conjunction with a card that can net you 3 Silvers a pop.
Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
What Feodum needs is to always appear in conjunction with a card that can net you 3 Silvers a pop.
Trader/Cache.
Yes, but that's quite a niche and the more cards come out, the less (barring Dark Ages helpers) likely it is that you will have Trader or something else.Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
What Feodum needs is to always appear in conjunction with a card that can net you 3 Silvers a pop.
It just seems a bit like Tunnel without the reaction to me in that you will likely grab it over Estate as it's almost always going to be at least one point, but you won't often create a strategy especially for it.
Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
What Feodum needs is to always appear in conjunction with a card that can net you 3 Silvers a pop.
Trader/Cache.
That gets you 2 Silvers, maximum. Also, please tell me you got Voltgloss's clever joke.
(3) "Three ways to gain Ruins" -> I'll bet it's not "Three cards that give Ruins", but rather "Three ways"Way #1: Given by looter
Way #1: Other player gives them to you like a curse
Way #2: You give them to yourself as a penalty for a card that would otherwise be too good (We've seen lots of fan cards like this before that have been poo-poo'd. Just like $1 cards and card that take from the trash were poo-poo'd)
Way #3: Something else? Maybe you start with Ruins? Or cards get transformed into Ruins?
I was about to post it in the "really bad card ideas" topic, but I thought it wouldn't be relevant.
Let's ruin everything !
-Ruined Tribute- (Action)
The player to your left reveals and discards the top card of his deck. If it is...
an action card, +1 action
a treasure card, +$1
a victory card, +1 card
-Ruined Coppersmith- (Action)
The first copper you play this turn produce an extra $1
-Ruined Contraband- (Treasure)
+$1
When you play this, reveal your hand. The player to your left names two cards, you can't buy those cards this turn.
Ruined Thief - Each other player puts their deck in their discard. They then go through their discard, and trash any and all Treasures they like.
I think the distinction is that "+1 Buy" enables you to get some benefit out of having the card in your deck, however niche a situation it might be when you want it. But "+1 Card" (combos with specific other cards aside) only ever gives you what you would have had if you hadn't had it in the first place, so it doesn't really help.
+1 Card - Eats your action.
+1 Action - Eats a card slot.
+1 Buy - Gives you +Buy! Now I can get two Provinces!
+$1 - Gives you a coin! Now I can afford one Province!
Now, nothing says that all the Ruins cards have to be potentially useful, nor that they need to be roughly equivalent in strength. But there IS a fundamental difference between the first two, which require combos to do anything for you, and the last two, which are simply meager benefits.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. All of them but the +1 Action one "eat" your action. And all but the + Card one "eat a card slot. All of them need some sort of combo to actually be useful. I don't see why +$1 is considered a "meager benefit" and +1 Card isn't. +$1 might be better than +1 Card most of the time, since it won't draw your other ruinses dead, but it's not a ton better, though I guess you might also buy it in a Minion or other draw-up-to-X deck with enough villages. But it's not fundamentally a whole lot different.
If a cultist chain is set up correctly (we'll figure out how to do that in a couple weeks),
1. Buy lots of Cultists.
2. Play one.
3. ???
4. Profit!
would be roughly my guess. Seriously, aside from the obvious tricks to top-deck stuff, "buy more cultists" and "have less other cards in your deck" would pretty much be the gist of how to chain them.
It seems to really be a card that will snowball to a ridiculous degree though, possibly even worse than cursing attacks, and I think I'll despise games playing with it.
I agree with the way to chain the cultist chains but you would have to remember to build up a decent economy at the same time. This seems like a true example of a snowball card. An annoying one :P
But you're thinking of it as getting a ruin compared to getting nothing.
I think +1 Card, and even +1 Action are both better than a truly blank card (or a Curse or an Estate).
So maybe the rule for Ruins is more utility than a curse, less utility than a card you would spend money on.
But you're thinking of it as getting a ruin compared to getting nothing.
I think +1 Card, and even +1 Action are both better than a truly blank card (or a Curse or an Estate).
So maybe the rule for Ruins is more utility than a curse, less utility than a card you would spend money on.
Agreed, certainly. They're all better than Curses. But that wasn't my point. The point of my original post (which Hive asked me about, which is why I further clarified) was how the Ruins cards are different from each other. The "+1 Buy" and presumed "+$1" ones are potentially useful on their own, while the presumed "+1 Card" and "+1 Action" ones cannot be in the absence of specific combos.
So what you're saying is that the +Buy and +$ ones are the only ones you'd actually buy with "non-specific" combos? Because when given as a ruin, you'd probably more often want +1 Card than +1 Buy...
I'm pretty sure +1 Buy is the only one you might buy, seeing as it's the only one not every board has. +$1 is a worse copper, +1 Card wastes your action, +1 Action wastes a card.
So what you're saying is that the +Buy and +$ ones are the only ones you'd actually buy with "non-specific" combos? Because when given as a ruin, you'd probably more often want +1 Card than +1 Buy...
I disagree. +buy can be a big help on an engine board, to the point where you might plan on buying one anyway. I can't envision a scenario where I'd ever want the +1 card type ruin.
I'm pretty sure +1 Buy is the only one you might buy, seeing as it's the only one not every board has. +$1 is a worse copper, +1 Card wastes your action, +1 Action wastes a card.
Pedantic Man!
Not every board draws you cards. Well, you say, it only gets the one card back, so that does nothing - true... normally! But there are two cards for which you actually get to draw EXTRA cards this way: Golem and King's Court. So, with no other +cards, but you COULD build some enormous actiony enginey awesomesauce, except that there are NO +CARDS CARDS AT ALL (like, no cantrips, no nothin' - I guess there are some kinds of +action cards that aren't cantrips, a la lighthouse, festival, fishing village), and there is at least one of golem and king's court, in that situation, you might want those ruined smithies (or whatever they will be called.
What do you mean that will never happen? Didn't stop them from printing Scout!
But you're thinking of it as getting a ruin compared to getting nothing.
I think +1 Card, and even +1 Action are both better than a truly blank card (or a Curse or an Estate).
So maybe the rule for Ruins is more utility than a curse, less utility than a card you would spend money on.
Hey, you know what, I've actually played a billion, er, around 11,000 games, and you know what, even in these situations, the vast majority of the time, no, no I wasn't glad of scout. Or a couple times I was glad that my opponent wanted it.I'm pretty sure +1 Buy is the only one you might buy, seeing as it's the only one not every board has. +$1 is a worse copper, +1 Card wastes your action, +1 Action wastes a card.
Pedantic Man!
Not every board draws you cards. Well, you say, it only gets the one card back, so that does nothing - true... normally! But there are two cards for which you actually get to draw EXTRA cards this way: Golem and King's Court. So, with no other +cards, but you COULD build some enormous actiony enginey awesomesauce, except that there are NO +CARDS CARDS AT ALL (like, no cantrips, no nothin' - I guess there are some kinds of +action cards that aren't cantrips, a la lighthouse, festival, fishing village), and there is at least one of golem and king's court, in that situation, you might want those ruined smithies (or whatever they will be called.
What do you mean that will never happen? Didn't stop them from printing Scout!
Hey, in Harem/Nobles games, you'll be very glad of a Scout. And they can help you get those Estates in hand for Chapel/Remodel/Ambassador.
I mentioned this before, but I'm intrigued by the Ruins/ Scrying Pool interaction. Coupled with some villages, or failing that Vaults, I could see it as a way to make your deck being flooded with tiny terminal actions into an asset.
Ruins should give us a new Max Fairgrounds score, if anyone cares to calculate it. And Menagerie is gonna be a decent counter to ruins attacks.
Ruins should give us a new Max Fairgrounds score, if anyone cares to calculate it. And Menagerie is gonna be a decent counter to ruins attacks.
Ruins should give us a new Max Fairgrounds score, if anyone cares to calculate it. And Menagerie is gonna be a decent counter to ruins attacks.
No point to calculating Fairgrounds at the moment; in the middle of a new set being previewed. How many cards would you count from the new set? We don't yet know how many differently named cards Dark Ages has for sure.
Ruins should give us a new Max Fairgrounds score, if anyone cares to calculate it. And Menagerie is gonna be a decent counter to ruins attacks.
No point to calculating Fairgrounds at the moment; in the middle of a new set being previewed. How many cards would you count from the new set? We don't yet know how many differently named cards Dark Ages has for sure.
True. Considering that this set has 35 kingdom cards instead of the usual 25, and five of these cards are Ruins, it wouldn't surprise me if another five cards are Shelters.
True. Considering that this set has 35 kingdom cards instead of the usual 25, and five of these cards are Ruins, it wouldn't surprise me if another five cards are Shelters.
Ruins aren't Kingdom cards.
But the ruins do partially explain why we need 500 cards for only 35 kingdom cards. Still 100 MIA, though.Well, some of those 100 are victory cards, which get 12 instead of 10.
Didn't Donald say Dark Ages would have cards you can only get from other cards? I'm guessing that explains the missing ones...This was largely speculated, but I don't remember Donald ever saying it.
This is the 7th addition to the game of Dominion. It is 500 cards but is not a standalone. It adds 35 new Kingdom cards to Dominion, plus new bad cards you give to other players (Ruins), new cards to replace starting Estates (Shelters), and cards you can only get via specific other cards.
But the ruins do partially explain why we need 500 cards for only 35 kingdom cards. Still 100 MIA, though.Well, some of those 100 are victory cards, which get 12 instead of 10.
Here it is:QuoteThis is the 7th addition to the game of Dominion. It is 500 cards but is not a standalone. It adds 35 new Kingdom cards to Dominion, plus new bad cards you give to other players (Ruins), new cards to replace starting Estates (Shelters), and cards you can only get via specific other cards.
There are cards that do something when trashed, cards that care about the trash, cards that upgrade themselves, and ways to upgrade other cards.
But the ruins do partially explain why we need 500 cards for only 35 kingdom cards. Still 100 MIA, though.Well, some of those 100 are victory cards, which get 12 instead of 10.
Well even if the other 30 kingdom cards are all victory types, we are still missing a ton.
But the ruins do partially explain why we need 500 cards for only 35 kingdom cards. Still 100 MIA, though.Well, some of those 100 are victory cards, which get 12 instead of 10.
Well even if the other 30 kingdom cards are all victory types, we are still missing a ton.
Which is what I think ties into the idea of cards being gained only through other cards - I think there are piles of 10 cards (or some other number) that, like prizes, are not part of the kingdom, but can be gained byt specific in-game actions; trash a squire, gain a knight; trash a knight, gain a crusader, etc - knights and crusaders cannot be bought and would have a price (0?) that excludes them or includes them, at Donald's perogative, in grave-robber-like actions.
ninja'ed by Jonts. oh well.
Hence the "some".But the ruins do partially explain why we need 500 cards for only 35 kingdom cards. Still 100 MIA, though.Well, some of those 100 are victory cards, which get 12 instead of 10.
Well even if the other 30 kingdom cards are all victory types, we are still missing a ton.
Probably the "cards that can only be gained via other specific cards" refers to the looters handing out the ruins, right?Except that the ruins are listed separately in the same list, with the whole 'and' thing implying that they are different.
Probably the "cards that can only be gained via other specific cards" refers to the looters handing out the ruins, right?
So, is the Cultist play another Cultist a one-time-only chance or can you go back to it if you draw another Cultist later on in your turn? Mining Village is phrased so you must trash it immediately to gain the benefit of the $ (and yes, I except there might be some neat Mining Village / Graverobber tricks as Mining Village gives the draw and actions no matter what; I predict we will see a bit of cycling them in and out of the Trash on some boards).
Cultist doesn't seem to have a time restriction on it though. Possibilities?
SO you can actually buy ruins if you want, right? Like in a Goons or Garden deck? Could this make Goons-Scrying Pool viable?
Ruins are Actions so they're much worse than curses in any of the following decks: Golem, Farming Village, Hunting Party (imagine having 5 different kinds of ruins thrown at your HP deck!)
So, is the Cultist play another Cultist a one-time-only chance or can you go back to it if you draw another Cultist later on in your turn? Mining Village is phrased so you must trash it immediately to gain the benefit of the $ (and yes, I except there might be some neat Mining Village / Graverobber tricks as Mining Village gives the draw and actions no matter what; I predict we will see a bit of cycling them in and out of the Trash on some boards).
Cultist doesn't seem to have a time restriction on it though. Possibilities?
Pretty sure it's restricted to immediately after you play the first Cultist.
You play Cultist. You carry out everything you can on the card:
- draw 2
- distribute ruins
- play another Cultist, if you want to
If you don't do the third thing, then it's over and you continue with your turn as normal.
Man, I think the mere presence of looters in a kingdom will make Golem and HP worthless. Just a couple of ruins in your deck basically causes these cards to completely dud quite often. Once it happens a few times, there will be a snowball effect as the looting player keeps adding ruins to the Golem (or HP) deck. I guess with 200 different types of cards, it's inevitable that the presence of a few cards could render a few other cards obsolete. (Can anybody think of an example where that happens already? Lighthouse vs Sea Hag maybe?)
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, and the effect of ruins won't be as significant as it seems. Or maybe there are other DA cards that help the situation, if they're available, such as ones that specialize in hunting for and trashing ruins. Or maybe there's a +actions card which trashes ruins.
First, at WORST, Hunting Party will be a $5 Lab.
I don't remember from other sets, but do blank cards count towards the total?
First, at WORST, Hunting Party will be a $5 Lab.
I mean, that's not quite true. Lab won't go skipping over Silvers to hunt down your Ruins just because you already have Silver in hand, for instance.
You want a Dominion! In all directions lie fiefs, freeholds, and feodums.
Man, I think the mere presence of looters in a kingdom will make Golem and HP worthless. Just a couple of ruins in your deck basically causes these cards to completely dud quite often. Once it happens a few times, there will be a snowball effect as the looting player keeps adding ruins to the Golem (or HP) deck. I guess with 200 different types of cards, it's inevitable that the presence of a few cards could render a few other cards obsolete. (Can anybody think of an example where that happens already? Lighthouse vs Sea Hag maybe?)
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, and the effect of ruins won't be as significant as it seems. Or maybe there are other DA cards that help the situation, if they're available, such as ones that specialize in hunting for and trashing ruins. Or maybe there's a +actions card which trashes ruins.
You're overreacting, I think. First, at WORST, Hunting Party will be a $5 Lab. Lab is already a $5 card. It'll ruin the traditional Hunting Party DECK (1 silver, 1 gold, 1 terminal silver, lots of HPs) but HP as a card will still be fine even in the presence of ruins. Whenever you get a Laboratory in a ruins-infested deck, HP would probably work no worse. It'll still skip over coppers and estates pretty well.
Likewise, you won't be able to make a "Golem Deck" where you get one or two actions and lots of golems. But there's nothing wrong with using Golem in a more standard way, as an engine component - it's still basically equivalent to Village+Lab (Draw 2 cards which are guaranteed to be actions and play them immediately) with, admittedly, a little less control. You'll want to play a Village before the golem because you won't have as much control over the outcome. But it'll still be playable. Perhaps a little too expensive, but still reasonable.
They won't be worthless. They'll be weaker, but by no means worthless.
(And, BTW, Masquerade does shut down, like, Sea Hag or something. It's not unprecedented.)
Not in my experience. Since Masquerade trashes fairly slowly, a Torturer chain increases your deck size a lot faster than Masquerade can trim it. That's bad news, because the Torturer-chaining player will have a Masquerade too, and end up with a nice trim deck and a draw engine.Man, I think the mere presence of looters in a kingdom will make Golem and HP worthless. Just a couple of ruins in your deck basically causes these cards to completely dud quite often. Once it happens a few times, there will be a snowball effect as the looting player keeps adding ruins to the Golem (or HP) deck. I guess with 200 different types of cards, it's inevitable that the presence of a few cards could render a few other cards obsolete. (Can anybody think of an example where that happens already? Lighthouse vs Sea Hag maybe?)
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, and the effect of ruins won't be as significant as it seems. Or maybe there are other DA cards that help the situation, if they're available, such as ones that specialize in hunting for and trashing ruins. Or maybe there's a +actions card which trashes ruins.
You're overreacting, I think. First, at WORST, Hunting Party will be a $5 Lab. Lab is already a $5 card. It'll ruin the traditional Hunting Party DECK (1 silver, 1 gold, 1 terminal silver, lots of HPs) but HP as a card will still be fine even in the presence of ruins. Whenever you get a Laboratory in a ruins-infested deck, HP would probably work no worse. It'll still skip over coppers and estates pretty well.
Likewise, you won't be able to make a "Golem Deck" where you get one or two actions and lots of golems. But there's nothing wrong with using Golem in a more standard way, as an engine component - it's still basically equivalent to Village+Lab (Draw 2 cards which are guaranteed to be actions and play them immediately) with, admittedly, a little less control. You'll want to play a Village before the golem because you won't have as much control over the outcome. But it'll still be playable. Perhaps a little too expensive, but still reasonable.
They won't be worthless. They'll be weaker, but by no means worthless.
(And, BTW, Masquerade does shut down, like, Sea Hag or something. It's not unprecedented.)
Masquerade shuts down Torturer. "Oh? I can take a Curse in hand? Why thank you! Just the perfect thing to pass to you via Masquerade!"
Not in my experience. Since Masquerade trashes fairly slowly, a Torturer chain increases your deck size a lot faster than Masquerade can trim it. That's bad news, because the Torturer-chaining player will have a Masquerade too, and end up with a nice trim deck and a draw engine.Man, I think the mere presence of looters in a kingdom will make Golem and HP worthless. Just a couple of ruins in your deck basically causes these cards to completely dud quite often. Once it happens a few times, there will be a snowball effect as the looting player keeps adding ruins to the Golem (or HP) deck. I guess with 200 different types of cards, it's inevitable that the presence of a few cards could render a few other cards obsolete. (Can anybody think of an example where that happens already? Lighthouse vs Sea Hag maybe?)
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong, and the effect of ruins won't be as significant as it seems. Or maybe there are other DA cards that help the situation, if they're available, such as ones that specialize in hunting for and trashing ruins. Or maybe there's a +actions card which trashes ruins.
You're overreacting, I think. First, at WORST, Hunting Party will be a $5 Lab. Lab is already a $5 card. It'll ruin the traditional Hunting Party DECK (1 silver, 1 gold, 1 terminal silver, lots of HPs) but HP as a card will still be fine even in the presence of ruins. Whenever you get a Laboratory in a ruins-infested deck, HP would probably work no worse. It'll still skip over coppers and estates pretty well.
Likewise, you won't be able to make a "Golem Deck" where you get one or two actions and lots of golems. But there's nothing wrong with using Golem in a more standard way, as an engine component - it's still basically equivalent to Village+Lab (Draw 2 cards which are guaranteed to be actions and play them immediately) with, admittedly, a little less control. You'll want to play a Village before the golem because you won't have as much control over the outcome. But it'll still be playable. Perhaps a little too expensive, but still reasonable.
They won't be worthless. They'll be weaker, but by no means worthless.
(And, BTW, Masquerade does shut down, like, Sea Hag or something. It's not unprecedented.)
Masquerade shuts down Torturer. "Oh? I can take a Curse in hand? Why thank you! Just the perfect thing to pass to you via Masquerade!"
Masquerade does make Torturer less scary, but it definitely doesn't make it ignorable.
My speculation:
Ruined Chapel: Trash a card
Also - what the hell is on the Cultist's face?
You misunderstand. If I have a Masquerade in hand when you play Torturer, I'm just going to take the Curse to pass to you. Obviously if the Masquerade wasn't in my hand, I'd probably seriously consider the discard option. And at the same time I'd probably be getting Torturers of my own.
Okay, the problem with Feodum is that you need 9 Silvers to get it up to Duchy level, which is always a good benchmark.
9 Silvers may be no problem with Trader, which can get you that by trashing a Platinum, but with cards that just gain one Silver at a time, it's going to be a real task.
And if we look at Jack, it's very good at getting Provinces, so why would you want to go full throttle on Feoda?
I don't like that it's specific to Silver.
It seems like a missed opportunity to me.
The card from the fan contest which gives 1 VP for every separate set of Copper-Silver-Gold seems more fun to me and more useful.
Hi, been lurking, just getting into Dominion last couple of months, and perhaps someone else mentioned this:
If Shelters are a replacement for Estates, and everyone's starting deck has 3 Estates, and Shelters protect you from Looters:
Then in a game with Cultists everyone starts with 3 anti-Looter cards in their deck. Wouldn't that make Cultists a lot weaker?
50 are Ruins. It's likely that these too have randomizer cards, just as every other supply pile in the game.
50 are Ruins. It's likely that these too have randomizer cards, just as every other supply pile in the game.
It's not true that every supply pile has a randomizer card:
- Potion from Alchemy
- Colony and Platinum from Prosperity
- The base cards from Intrigue
- The base cards from Base Cards
Although the last two are functionally equivalent to the base cards from Dominion, so they don't really count. It's also worth noting that the prize cards don't have randomizers, although they aren't supply cards.
Potions, Platinums and the base cards do have randomizers, but not for randomizing. I believe their purpose is to lay face down at the bottom of their supply piles so it would be clearer how many piles have ended.
Fixed that for you.50 are Ruins. It's likely that these too have randomizer cards, just as every other supply pile in the game.
It's not true that every supply pile has a randomizer card:
- Potion from Alchemy
- Colony and Platinum from Prosperity
- The base cards from Intrigue
The base cards from Base Cards
Although the last two are functionally equivalent to the base cards from Dominion, so they don't really count. It's also worth noting that the prize cards don't have randomizers, although they aren't supply cards.
Whoever suggested Ruined Black Market (which only and always contains Scout) already won this game.
Shelter (replaces starting estates in a game with a looter):
Victory Reaction Cost 2
1 VP
Reveal to be unaffected by a looter.
Also, I've been staying out of these discussions as much as possible, but since I'm here now, there was a short discussion a few pages back about the order of operations if you upgrade a Cultist into a Gold with Watchtower in hand. Can you top-deck the gold before you draw 3 or not? My take is this, but I'd like to hear an official answer:
Also, I've been staying out of these discussions as much as possible, but since I'm here now, there was a short discussion a few pages back about the order of operations if you upgrade a Cultist into a Gold with Watchtower in hand. Can you top-deck the gold before you draw 3 or not? My take is this, but I'd like to hear an official answer:
I think Donald's weighed in on this; you get the cards first.
You do what upgrade says in order. First, you trash a cultist - but wait! When the cultist is trashed you draw 3 cards! - and then you gain a gold, which you can top-deck. You don't get to wait for something else to happen.
First you trash, then you gain, and the +3 cards happens when you trash, not when you gain.
Ruined Workshop:
Gain a card costing up to 0
Ruined Warehouse:
+1 card, discard 1 card
Ruined Chancellor:
+1$
when you play this, you may discard your discard pile. (confusion card indeed)
Ruined Workshop:
Gain a card costing up to 0
Ruined Warehouse:
+1 card, discard 1 card
Ruined Chancellor:
+1$
when you play this, you may discard your discard pile. (confusion card indeed)
Ruined Chancellor is pretty good with Tunnel.
Fixed that for you.50 are Ruins. It's likely that these too have randomizer cards, just as every other supply pile in the game.
It's not true that every supply pile has a randomizer card:
- Potion from Alchemy
- Colony and Platinum from Prosperity
- The base cards from Intrigue
The base cards from Base Cards
Although the last two are functionally equivalent to the base cards from Dominion, so they don't really count. It's also worth noting that the prize cards don't have randomizers, although they aren't supply cards.
In fact, at least in the copy I have, the Province, Duchy, Estate, Gold, Silver, Copper and Curse piles all have randomizer cards. You need to be careful not to start with 13 Provinces. Don't know why it keeps putting that tag here ->[/list]
Is Feodom pronounced Feeodum or Fyodum?
Shelter (replaces starting estates in a game with a looter):
Victory Reaction Cost 2
1 VP
Reveal to be unaffected by a looter.
This seems obsolete to me. Why not just write "Each other player may reveal an Estate from his hand. If he doesn’t..." on each of the Looters and save <however many Estates there are> cards for better uses?
Shelter (replaces starting estates in a game with a looter):
Victory Reaction Cost 2
1 VP
Reveal to be unaffected by a looter.
This seems obsolete to me. Why not just write "Each other player may reveal an Estate from his hand. If he doesn’t..." on each of the Looters and save <however many Estates there are> cards for better uses?
I don't think Shelter will just protect from Looters. But if it did, the "reveal an Estate" wording would just take too much space on the cards.
I copied the wording from Young Witch. If it's not too much space there, why would it be here?
Not that it matters, because it's not what Shelters do (probably).
I copied the wording from Young Witch. If it's not too much space there, why would it be here?
Not that it matters, because it's not what Shelters do (probably).
Because the Looters can have lots of other effects. Cultist is far more complicated than YW. Plus, YW is just one card and there are three Looters.
But moving the text to another card doesn't reduce the complexity. It marginally improves legibility (although cards like Trade Route or Pirate Ship still contain a ton more text than Cultist with one extra sentence would) but it doesn't reduce the number of rules you have to memorize. That would be a pretty lousy reason to print 12 extra cards IMO.
But moving the text to another card doesn't reduce the complexity. It marginally improves legibility (although cards like Trade Route or Pirate Ship still contain a ton more text than Cultist with one extra sentence would) but it doesn't reduce the number of rules you have to memorize. That would be a pretty lousy reason to print 12 extra cards IMO.
But who knows how complex the other two Looters will be? Maybe they don't have room. Adding that Estate rule will clutter up not just Cultist but the other two cards as well. You don't have to memorize any new rule because that rule would be printed on the Shelter card.
I still don't think that's what Shelters will do though.
Ruined Treasure Map: Trash this and another Ruined Treasure Map. If you do, gain nothing. That didn't work out so well.
Q: If you develop a cultist into a border village and a smithy (gaining a cultist), do you draw 3 cards first or put the BV/smithy on top first?
Ruined Treasure Map: Trash this and another Ruined Treasure Map. If you do, gain nothing. That didn't work out so well.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
IT JUST DAWNED ON ME
SHELTERS PROTECT YOU FROM LOOTERS
i.e.
Shelter
Victory-Reaction
$2
0 VP
When another player plays a Looter card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Looter.
Lol......he currently has +9 for a false statement! Wish I could do that....
Another random thought: I think Feoda might be a great defense against Governor.
Another random thought: I think Feoda might be a great defense against Governor.
I just had a game where this proved correct. Please fill my deck with Silver and allow me to trash my Feoda for Governors/Duchies!
Another random thought: I think Feoda might be a great defense against Governor.
I just had a game where this proved correct. Please fill my deck with Silver and allow me to trash my Feoda for Governors/Duchies!
Yeah, I did a search to see if this was something I'd just discovered. It wasn't, so credit where credit's due!