Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Isotropic => Topic started by: Brando Commando on July 16, 2012, 11:42:38 am
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Quick note: I've been playing as MeOhMy recently.
Anyway, this guy made a weird assertion that I hadn't ever thought of before:
11:26 xxx: !disable
11:26 MeOhMy: >> Point counter disabled.
11:26 MeOhMy: strategizing a sec.
11:26 xxx: Please tell me you're not using an online analyzer.
11:26 MeOhMy: man, if there were such a thing, it would be the second coming
11:26 xxx: There is.
11:27 MeOhMy: ?
11:27 MeOhMy: that's the first I've heard about it
11:27 MeOhMy: what is it called?
11:27 xxx: It's not like a 'This is the best strategy for this kingdom' analyzer, but you can input cards and rules and run a few hundred games to see what strategies are most effective
11:28 MeOhMy: really? never heard of it, and I read the boards a fair amount
11:31 xxx: This one
11:31 xxx: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=144.0
11:31 xxx: I've run into some people that will be really slow starting because they're plugging stuff into that
11:31 xxx: Or something similar
I've totally heard of Geronimoo's simulator...it's just that it hadn't occurred to me anybody would use it at the beginning of a game.
Is this really something people are doing, or is this guy just paranoid? I mean, I disagree with this if it's happening...but I don't think it is. Nobody I know takes anywhere near the time it would take to use the simulator to simulate games before their first turn.
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I'm sure some people do it, but probably not on a big scale. It takes too long. This guy is probably paranoid; some players just take a long time to analyze the board.
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I don't think so. Geronimoo did say he did that say 5 times to test BM-X against BM-Y, but stopped after being told that it is not ok.
And the sim is far away from being a "online analyzer". If you really just want to know BM-X or BM-Y, than this might work, but you have to have a pretty clear idea of how your strategy should look like in every other case, no chance of getting it to tell you how to play a game. How not to play a game maybe, but nothing more.
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there was some past discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1174.0) on the ethics of this type of thing. the logistics of actually using it for an advantage are tricky, of course. opponents will notice a delay, and even then you can only learn so much. as with most other online aids, enforcing any rule is nearly impossible.
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You could also plug the starting kingdom cards into the cr.com "results with precence" of tool and see what it recommends.
Or use the optimal ratio tool to figure whether your next but should be a tunnel or a young witch (for example)
But of you know enough to know which cards to plug into the optimal ratios then you likely know the order long before the game started anyway.
Ed
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Someone who frequently uses the simulator might be able to set up a meaningful simulation for a random board in 5 to 10 minutes. But I've never seen anyone take that long.
An inexperienced player could potenentially run the default Familiar bot against the default Witch bot in a few seconds and find out that Witch totally dominates, but that wouldn't help him beat an expert who already knows this stuff by heart.
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This isn't going to tell you much you can't find out by reading the Ranking BM+X terminals (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2532.0) thread, or for that matter compiling a list yourself. There's definitely not enough time to write a new bot from scratch, as Geronimoo points out.
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Is reading the BM+X terminals thread after a game starts cheating?
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Is reading the BM+X terminals thread after a game starts cheating?
Yes. It's an external aid.
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Is reading the BM+X terminals thread after a game starts cheating?
Yes. It's an external aid.
I don't really want to go into this all again, but aren't you one of the guys who most strongly supported the use of the PCE?
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Is reading the BM+X terminals thread after a game starts cheating?
Yes. It's an external aid.
I don't really want to go into this all again, but aren't you one of the guys who most strongly supported the use of the PCE?
I think he supported a rule that allows the PCE.
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Is reading the BM+X terminals thread after a game starts cheating?
Yes. It's an external aid.
I don't really want to go into this all again, but aren't you one of the guys who most strongly supported the use of the PCE?
I think he supported a rule that allows the PCE.
Bingo. It's wrong to use an external aid without opponent awareness & consent.