Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Diving Pikachu on July 17, 2011, 03:31:08 am

Title: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on July 17, 2011, 03:31:08 am
Since at least one village-type card has been included in each released expansion--even the small ones--I'm curious as to what the last few expansions have left to add. I'm also curious if anyone feels like they can make up a village that rivals the official ones! I'll start with mine:

Villas/Manor ($4)

+2 Actions
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory Card. Put that card into your hand and discard the other cards. If there are no Victory Cards in your deck, you may put this on top of your deck.


At the beginning, this integrates gained cards faster and makes your next draw a bit better. In a board with dual-typed Victory Cards, it pairs awesomely with any of them. In a board with heavy trashing, it becomes a pseudo-Walled Village+chancellor until the endgame, which hopefully isn't too powerful because you still need a source of draws. In the endgame, it consistently makes subsequent draws much better. Flavor-wise, I guess noblemen's villas are placed away from cities so they don't deal with many exciting things, but the larger the land (Victory Card), the nicer it can be built. A manor is a self-sustaining economy which depends upon whatever yield the serfs manage to coax from the ground.
---

Here's another.

Monastery ($4)

+2 Actions
Reveal the top card of your deck. You may discard it, trash it, or place it back on top.


I think we've yet to see a non-terminal trasher that costs $4 (there's Lookout and Upgrade, but they're $3 and $5). You get no draws with this one for obvious power issues, even if it's a $4. I think it also plays nicely into the flavor of a Monastery, as monks busy themselves with spiritual things and preserving ancient knowledge, but they don't have any influence outside their own walls.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Michaelf7777777 on July 17, 2011, 07:46:23 am
Here are some more ideas of mine for village type cards.

Settlement ($4) Action-Attack

+2 Actions
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is a victory card put it in your hand. Otherwise choose whether you gain a copy of the revealed card or all opponents do.

Retirement Village ($2) Action

+2 Actions
+1 Buy

Haunted Village ($6) Action-Attack

+1 Card
+2 Actions
Every other player gains a curse
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: grep on July 17, 2011, 05:23:28 pm
Frontier Village
$3
+2 Actions, +2 Cards, discard 2 Cards

Very fast in the beginning, but reducing the hand size might be harmful in the midgame.

And a more versatile version:

Busy Beaver
$5
+2 Cards
Discard any number of cards. For each discarded card, +1 Action.

The latter is a good helper for unpopular "no trash" strategies.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: minced on July 17, 2011, 07:54:01 pm
Anarchists
+1 card
+2 actions
Trash a card from your hand. Gain another anarchists.

(note that after anarchists run out you trash *every time you play this* with no benefit, destroying your deck)
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Axe Knight on July 17, 2011, 09:55:19 pm
Soldiers' Village $4

+2 Actions

When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Censure on July 18, 2011, 03:47:37 am
Frontier Village
Action ($5)

+2 Actions

Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Pick one to add to your hand and discard the rest.


Heretical Village
Action ($4)

Choose one - Gain a Curse, adding it to your hand; or add all curses in your discard pile to your hand.

Then - Gain +1 Card and +2 Actions for each Curse in your hand.



Barbaric Village
Action - Reaction ($4)

+1 Card
+1 Coin

Reveal your hand. If you have at least one attack card, +2 Actions.

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do so, the attack has no effect on you and you must trash a card from your hand.



Pious Village
Action ($4)

+1 Card
+2 Actions

Trash or discard a card from your hand.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: danshep on July 18, 2011, 03:50:20 am
Guarded Village ($4)

+1 card
+2 actions

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.

(actually, I'd been thinking of a moat cantrip, but I think a moat village may be a better cost $4).


Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: minced on July 19, 2011, 12:56:54 pm
Villas/Manor ($4)

+2 Actions
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory Card. Put that card into your hand and discard the other cards. If there are no Victory Cards in your deck, you may put this on top of your deck.

I don't really see why a card that usually searches your deck for junk would be worth $4. At $2 it would be a fun buy because it cycles your deck quickly and has fun interactions with nobles/ironworks.

Come to think of it, you could play several of these to fish all the crap out of your deck and strategically trigger a reshuffle. ;)

Here's another.

Monastery ($4)

+2 Actions
Reveal the top card of your deck. You may discard it, trash it, or place it back on top.

It's a much, much better lookout. Not a bad card, but feels somewhat redundant.

Frontier Village
Action ($5)

+2 Actions

Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Pick one to add to your hand and discard the rest.
This card would probably be best in curse games, where you have a few good cards and a lot of crap. However, I think it's (almost) strictly inferior to hunting party. I almost think it would be better at $4 with "discard the rest" replaced by "rearrange the rest."


Heretical Village
Action ($4)

Choose one - Gain a Curse, adding it to your hand; or add all curses in your discard pile to your hand.

Then - Gain +1 Card and +2 Actions for each Curse in your hand.
With five curses, this card becomes a +5 cards +10 actions whenever you have two in hand, so it's fairly broken. I'd remove the curse-fishing and require the user to discard a curse to get +1 card +2 actions.


Barbaric Village
Action - Reaction ($4)

+1 Card
+1 Coin

Reveal your hand. If you have at least one attack card, +2 Actions.

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do so, the attack has no effect on you and you must trash a card from your hand.
Reactions are usually terminal for a reason: flooding your deck with reactions is not meant to be a winning strategy. Free trashing, attack immunity, *and* a setup for a counterattack? I think this card needs some work.


Pious Village
Action ($4)

+1 Card
+2 Actions

Trash or discard a card from your hand.
This card is ridiculously good as a trasher in a curse game - you just need to end the game before you have a thin deck and the pious villages become a liability, which is quite easy in curse games.

Guarded Village ($4)

+1 card
+2 actions

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.

(actually, I'd been thinking of a moat cantrip, but I think a moat village may be a better cost $4).
Once again, reactions are specifically built so you *can't* build your deck around them: lighthouse has a weak benefit, moat's +2 cards is insufficient for a drawing engine, and secret chamber can easily get you stuck at $4 or below. I think a non-terminal reaction would have to provide a much weaker benefit than complete attack immunity, otherwise attacking games would get boring very quickly.

Soldiers' Village $4

+2 Actions

When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.
Similar to frontier village. I think $4 and three cards makes it a little more useable. The cycling is a very strong benefit and not to be underestimated.


Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Censure on July 27, 2011, 01:29:47 am
Frontier Village
Action ($5)

+2 Actions

Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Pick one to add to your hand and discard the rest.
This card would probably be best in curse games, where you have a few good cards and a lot of crap. However, I think it's (almost) strictly inferior to hunting party. I almost think it would be better at $4 with "discard the rest" replaced by "rearrange the rest."


Heretical Village
Action ($4)

Choose one - Gain a Curse, adding it to your hand; or add all curses in your discard pile to your hand.

Then - Gain +1 Card and +2 Actions for each Curse in your hand.
With five curses, this card becomes a +5 cards +10 actions whenever you have two in hand, so it's fairly broken. I'd remove the curse-fishing and require the user to discard a curse to get +1 card +2 actions.


Barbaric Village
Action - Reaction ($4)

+1 Card
+1 Coin

Reveal your hand. If you have at least one attack card, +2 Actions.

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do so, the attack has no effect on you and you must trash a card from your hand.
Reactions are usually terminal for a reason: flooding your deck with reactions is not meant to be a winning strategy. Free trashing, attack immunity, *and* a setup for a counterattack? I think this card needs some work.


Pious Village
Action ($4)

+1 Card
+2 Actions

Trash or discard a card from your hand.
This card is ridiculously good as a trasher in a curse game - you just need to end the game before you have a thin deck and the pious villages become a liability, which is quite easy in curse games.

I completely agree with most of this. Keep in mind, these were spur-of-the-moment ideas for village-type cards.

For frontier village, how about a reveal of 6 cards instead of 4, while remaining at the same cost. In effect, it'd be a Chancellor Jr. while giving you a decent enough card and being a village all the while. Perhaps this is too strong at $5?

Heretical village is the hardest to salvage of these, but I've been hard at thinking about cards that benefit from curses for a while. I don't want to give up the concept completely, but I don't think a village-type card is the way to go, so I won't redeem this card at all.

For Barbaric Village, the card would not be able to do all of the above unless you have multiple versions of it. This is actually a modified version of a blue card I have playtested in 3-player games, so I will not attempt to salvage it as I think the baseline card works better:


Plague Doctor ($3)
Action-Reaction

+3 Actions

If another player plays an attack card, you may reveal and discard this card and ignore its effect on you. If you do so, you may trash a card from your hand.


Pious Village is meant to be above-average or even amazing in curse games, that's the entire thematic point. Yes, it is possibility a liability in late-game non-cursing game, but at $4 and being essentially a village I think it is quite well balanced. I would like to note this card is not playtested.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: play2draw on July 27, 2011, 04:06:35 pm
Megalopolis: $5

+1 card
+2 actions

Gain a card with the word "village" in the name.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: grep on July 28, 2011, 04:05:30 pm
Homestead $2
+1 Card, +1 Action
You may gain a Homestead or an Estate
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: HLennartz on August 06, 2011, 06:12:24 pm
Slum $2
Action - Attack
+2 Actions.
Each opponent gains a copy of Slum.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on August 07, 2011, 04:59:31 pm
Frontier Village
$3
+2 Actions, +2 Cards, discard 2 Cards

I was thinking of a similar village which is:

+2 Cards, +2 Actions
Discard 1 Card
$4

This maintains your hand size like a normal village would but gives a touch more flexibility. Alternatively, you could try a stronger variant like +3 cards and discard 2 and cost it at $5.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on August 07, 2011, 05:04:45 pm
Actually, now that I think about it, the stronger variant might be under-costed at $5 since it is essentially village+warehouse+lab. Maybe it should be $6.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: WanderingWinder on August 07, 2011, 05:10:50 pm
I would guess it's probably a 5. You can do a lot with 5.
Make the discard first, and you it's either a 4 or a 5, but it might be too strong at 4 and too weak at 5 in that case.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: kn1tt3r on August 07, 2011, 05:24:53 pm
What about this:

GHOST TOWN

+2 Cards
+2 Actions

Each player (including you) with 4 or more cards in hand puts cards from his hand on top of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.


Costs: $5


Basically a modified City Level 2 (= "Town") / Ghost Ship hybride.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: guided on August 07, 2011, 05:54:44 pm
That is definitely not worth $5 :P

It completely gut-shoots you. It's not a viable part of any draw engine that doesn't involve Library.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on August 07, 2011, 08:29:26 pm
Idiot Village

+1 Card
+2 Actions

+1 Card for each card in play with Village in it's name.

Now you CAN spam villages for great effect!
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: kn1tt3r on August 08, 2011, 04:16:05 am
That is definitely not worth $5 :P

It completely gut-shoots you. It's not a viable part of any draw engine that doesn't involve Library.
Well, compared to Ghost Ship, this one is +2 Actions instead of +2 Cards, with the additional Secret Chamber reaction benefit. Quite comparable I think.

I once had a City level 3 there (+2 cards, +2 actions, +1 buy, +1 coin) but this is too strong for $5.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on August 08, 2011, 08:10:48 am
That is definitely not worth $5 :P

It completely gut-shoots you. It's not a viable part of any draw engine that doesn't involve Library.
Well, compared to Ghost Ship, this one is +2 Actions instead of +2 Cards, with the additional Secret Chamber reaction benefit. Quite comparable I think.

I once had a City level 3 there (+2 cards, +2 actions, +1 buy, +1 coin) but this is too strong for $5.

Are you sure Ghost Village does what you think it does?  You draw 2, then put 4 back, leaving yourself with a 3-card hand.  I can't even imagine how this would be a good thing under any circumstances.  Even if you had a Library, which you could then use to draw back up to 7, you'd only be drawing what you would have without having Ghost-Shipped yourself.  From your Secret Chamber comment, I wonder if you intended the player of the card to only return 2 cards rather than "down to 3."  If that's what you meant, I can see it being $5.  As written, it's probably worse than useless most of the time.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: kn1tt3r on August 08, 2011, 08:21:10 am
Argh, you're right. The reason was is it was "put 2 cards on top..." instead of "down to 3" but this is just insane (or you have to add a curse option like Torturer).
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Deadlock39 on August 08, 2011, 10:08:41 am
You could simply say:

GHOST TOWN

+2 Cards
+2 Actions

Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts cards from his hand on top of his deck until he has 3 cards in his hand.


You get the Secret Chamber reaction for yourself, and the Ghost Ship attack on your opponents.  It just takes a little more text.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: guided on August 08, 2011, 12:00:20 pm
Make it one card back on your deck instead of two and maybe we'll talk. If it's two cards, it's probably substantially worse than Ghost Ship, but the attack is simply too strong to price it at $4.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on August 23, 2011, 11:57:13 pm
Quote
Soldiers' Village
$4 - Action
+2 Actions.  When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.

Quote
Frontier Village
$5 - Action
+2 Actions.  Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Pick one to add to your hand and discard the rest.

Intrigued by this idea, I did some playtesting with the Solders' Village version of this idea.  It's a fun card!  It's really nice to be able to get some bonus cycling in with the Village effect.  I was somewhat surprised, even in light of minced's warning not to underestimate it, how good that cycling is.  While in theory you might have to skip past a good card or two on occasion, this is unusual.  Usually you're plucking out a great card among mediocre ones.  Even if you have to pick one bad card out of three, you do still get to skip over two of them.

After some thought, I realized why it seems so strong.  It's almost always superior to Farming Village at the same price.  Farming Village will only really be better late in the game, when you're likely to have more than three green cards in a row.

At the same time, $5 feels too expensive, even with the (dubiously) stronger 4-card version.  I say "feels" rather than "is."  Maybe it's actually fine at $5.  Heck, if it means drawing a Silver instead of a Copper -- which seemed to happen quite often in my testing -- then it's effectively a Bazaar.  Actually it's still better, because you got to skip past the Copper.

An alternative would be to return the remaining cards to the top of your deck, rather than discarding them.  This would be quite balanced at $4, I think, but also quite a bit more boring.  The effect would be similar to Courtyard, but the best part about that card is the ability to rescue a dead action.  But since this is a village, you won't have dead actions (usually), and so the decision boils down to saving extra treasure for the next hand.  Useful, sometimes, but not nearly as interesting.

But why choose?  There's no reason we can't have a $4 version that returns the unused cards and a $5 version that discards them.  Either way, fun idea -- thanks for sharing it.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 24, 2011, 02:27:35 am
Homestead $2
+1 Card, +1 Action
You may gain a Homestead or an Estate

I like it the idea of building up a mass of essentially no-effect cards before clean-sweeping the Estates in one go. It could be an interesting game of chicken if both players decide to go for them: both players want the Estates, but don't want to clog up their deck too early.

I assume once the Homesteads are gone, you can choose to take a Homestead and therefore nothing?
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: WanderingWinder on August 24, 2011, 08:19:40 am
Since it is worded 'may', you can choose to take nothing
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 24, 2011, 09:23:52 am
Right, of course. I missed that bit.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on August 24, 2011, 04:09:50 pm
Quote
Quote
Soldiers' Village
$4 - Action
+2 Actions.  When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.
.
.
.
At the same time, $5 feels too expensive, even with the (dubiously) stronger 4-card version.  I say "feels" rather than "is."  Maybe it's actually fine at $5.  Heck, if it means drawing a Silver instead of a Copper -- which seemed to happen quite often in my testing -- then it's effectively a Bazaar.  Actually it's still better, because you got to skip past the Copper.

Playtesting this a little more, $5 feels more like the right price.  I'd probably almost always buy this in preference to a Bazaar.

One thing that sold me was that it turns out that this is the BEST enabler for Conspirator engines.  The main problem with Conspirator engines is that, since you only get +1 Card for each activated Conspirator, you need a really trim deck.  With Soldiers' Village (villages in general being the best way to kick Conspirator chains off in the first place), you can leap over green cards and treasures and pluck out the next Soldiers' Village or Conspirator, whichever one you need next.  I'm sure it also allows Market and Grand Market decks to be looser, too.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 24, 2011, 08:47:55 pm
Soldiers' Village $4

+2 Actions

When you play this card, you may reveal the top three cards of your deck.  If you do, discard two, put the other one back on top, then, +1 Card.

Is there a particular reason this is worded this way? Would "If you do, discard two, put the other one in your hand" be exactly the same but more succinct?
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: danshep on August 24, 2011, 09:30:11 pm
The other consequence of that 'may' wording is that if you only have 1 or 2 cards left in your deck, you cannot retrieve them with soldier's village.

Frankly, I don't think the may wording really belongs on the card, but otherwise I like it as a $5 cost village.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on August 24, 2011, 10:34:43 pm
I agree with the rewording.  I think just "Look at the top 3 cards of your deck.  Put one of them in your hand and discard the rest." suffices.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Fangz on August 30, 2011, 10:06:04 am
Planner's shack
$3
+1 card
+1 action
You may set aside an action card. Play it automatically at the start of your next turn. This does not consume an action.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on August 30, 2011, 10:34:10 am
My brother and I playtested this last night.

Ruined Village
$3 - Action
+1 Card, +1 Action
This may be played in your action phase even if you have no actions remaining.

In effect, it's very similar to a vanilla Village if you change the play order.  Instead of Village->Terminal->Terminal, you'd play Terminal->Ruined Village->Terminal.  It's weaker than Village in that you can't play multiples in a sprawling tree (although by reordering the actions you play, you might be able to get the same effect).  But it's stronger in the sense that it cannot be drawn dead.  For example, if you play a Smithy and draw a Ruined Village, it's perfectly playable.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: chesskidnate on August 30, 2011, 12:44:02 pm
ruined village is probably worth 4-5 and I like the idea
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Lailoken on August 30, 2011, 01:58:29 pm
Ruined Village is an interesting idea, but it would be even more interesting if you could only play it when you had no actions left:

Ruined Village
If you have no more actions
+1 Card, +1 Action

I would guess that if you could play Ruined Village any time, not only when you were out of actions, then it would be spammed like crazy because it would give you actions exactly when you needed them.  By limiting it to only when you didn't have any more actions, then it would be a little less powerful.

Alternatively, you could say:

Ruined Village
+1 Card
If you have no more actions
+1 Action

Not sure what kind of card it would be, though—it doesn't make much sense to call it an Action if it doesn't use up an action to play, but then it doesn't make much sense not to call it an action.  Perhaps it could be a reaction (if an extremely unorthodox one) ... you're "reacting" to your lack of actions.

Anyway ... I like your idea!

Another idea would be to have a Peddler-like village, maybe called a Fair, that costs 1$ less for each unused action you have.  So if you ended your turn with 8+ unused actions, you could buy out all the Fairs in one go (assuming you had the buys).  Like Peddler, they would also build on each other, because they would give you +2 actions which you could use to discount your future Fairs.  It would turn the game into a bit of a village fest, though ...

Fair
+1$
+2 actions
Costs $1 less per unused action in this turn.

I think it would be a little too powerful if it were +1 Card, +1$, +2 Actions.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: hoff on August 30, 2011, 02:18:00 pm
Logging Village
$2 - Action
+3 Actions
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on August 30, 2011, 02:37:57 pm
Logging Village
$2 - Action
+3 Actions

I've always thought that a +3 action card would be fun to have (Fishing village not withstanding). I think this would make an interesting card but the problem with a +3 action card, especially one that doesn't give +card, is that the reason to buy +3 actions would be to require fewer of them in your deck than a traditional village, but you would still need just as many or more to ensure you draw them with terminals.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: guided on August 30, 2011, 03:48:30 pm
I think Logging Village is actually a brilliant idea, though perhaps $3 is the right cost. Needs playtesting. I think Donald once said that +3 actions is one of those "either priceless or worthless" effects, but I'm not sure I agree in the case of a card that does absolutely nothing else.


Here's a somewhat obvious one:

Village Latrine
$0 - Action
+2 Actions
Discard one card.
Village Latrine does not count toward the supply pile limit for ending the game.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: greatexpectations on August 30, 2011, 04:39:06 pm
re: the logging village idea...

how about making the 3rd action a choice? so, you would get +2 actions, but then you could choose either +1 card or +action.  or perhaps choose between +action this turn or +action next turn.

or for that matter, just make an upgraded pawn that gives you +1 action and then the usual pawn 'choose two'.

Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: guided on August 30, 2011, 04:45:22 pm
how about making the 3rd action a choice? so, you would get +2 actions, but then you could choose either +1 card or +action.
Then it would need to cost at least $4. Possibly $5.

I like it at a plain-vanilla +3 Actions, myself, but after more thought I'm entirely convinced it should cost more than $2.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on August 30, 2011, 05:07:29 pm
I like it at a plain-vanilla +3 Actions, myself, but after more thought I'm entirely convinced it should cost more than $2.

I don't see why it would cost more than 2. I won't say it's strictly inferior to fishing village, but it does sort of the same thing but doesn't provide money.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: guided on August 30, 2011, 06:13:19 pm
I don't see why it would cost more than 2. I won't say it's strictly inferior to fishing village, but it does sort of the same thing but doesn't provide money.
It's unequivocally not "strictly inferior" to Fishing Village. But even putting the word "strictly" aside, consider for example that it's much better than FV at building a draw engine that consistently draws most of the deck - FV provides roughly 2 actions per shuffle in that case instead of 3. In any case, not every $3 card needs to be as good as the best $3 nonterminal in the game :P And "+3 Actions" is so much better than Native Village as to put it on another cost tier I think.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on October 23, 2011, 10:33:08 pm
Since Hinterlands has shown us just how unexplored the Reaction mechanic was (and probably still is), these next three villages explore the potential of reactions that aren't focused upon attacks.

Ghost Village $4
(Action-Reaction)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.

A Cursing Reaction Village!? Before Hinterlands I could never have conceived of such a wild thing but here it is... As for the price, I am surer than sure that $4 is perfect. Mining Village, Worker's Village, and Walled Village are all marginally better than the vanilla Village, and have the same price. Young Witch and Sea Hag are both $4 cursers with severe drawbacks too. I wonder, though, if the discarding mechanic is too situational to be the this-is-why-this-village-costs-4 gimmick. As for Ghost Village's interaction with Militia and Torturer, I hope that this card's opportunistic cursing doesn't scare players off too badly from using those attacks, because those attacks remain strong and detrimental to the Ghost Village user. Plus, the player cursing with Ghost Village has to lose an entire village in the process!
***


High Street or Market Street $4
(Action-Reaction)
+1 card
+2 Actions
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal and discard it. If you do, +1 Buy, +$2

So, this village can turn into a non-terminal Woodcutter that you don't have to worry about drawing dead. Is that too powerful for $4? The fact that this is a village means that you'd probably have actions to spare anyways. It works well with most draw cards (and Walled Village, OMG), but clashes with Minion, Watchtower, and cards that need you to discard. It stays a regular village when you try using it with KC, TR, and Golem, as well. Anyways, at first I actually wanted to name this Cathedral, because I had in mind the ancient Roman ruins and aqueducts that Medieval folk would often cannibalize for stones to build their own structures... So.. if you don't use the Cathedral, you can recycle the stone masonry for something else... Okay, now, it doesn't sound as fitting anymore... O.o
***


Gypsie Camp $5
(Action-Reaction)
+2 Actions
Name 1 card before revealing the top 4 cards of your deck. You may put one revealed copy of the named card into your hand, if you find any. You may discard one revealed card as well. Put the remaining cards on top of your deck in any order. Either shuffle the remaining cards into your deck, or discard them.
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.

So, this card's reaction is kinda a bit like both of the previous ones'. It curses, but only when you keep it until the Buy Phase. It's much more reliable of a curser than Ghost Village, which demands a higher price. So to make it a $5 village, I have it draw its one card with sort of a Navigating Wishing Well effect. Is it too hard to use? Should more cards be revealed? Should it always give you at least one card, even if you guess wrong? I dunno, really.
***
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on October 23, 2011, 10:52:54 pm
Planner's shack
$3
+1 card
+1 action
You may set aside an action card. Play it automatically at the start of your next turn. This does not consume an action.

This is so enticing, and it seems fair when compared with Fishing Village, but it would make a Tactician deck unstoppable.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: jonts26 on October 24, 2011, 01:54:01 am
How so? You certainly wouldnt want to set a tactician aside. Starting my turn by discarding my hand doesn't sound very enticing.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Davio on October 24, 2011, 05:06:07 am
How so? You certainly wouldnt want to set a tactician aside. Starting my turn by discarding my hand doesn't sound very enticing.
I think he means: Play this, set aside preferred action card for next turn, play Tactician.
Next turn: Play preferred action card, still having (up to) 10 cards, 2 Actions and 2 Buys.

This could "save" some hands in which Tactician collides with a juicy terminal, but then you'd also need to have this in hand. It could also be done the other way around, if you'd want to deal out that last Curse and play Tactician the next hand automatically.

I think it could be very nifty with Tournament. If you have multiple in hand and no Province, but your opponent does, so the rest doesn't have any effect, just set them aside.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Titandrake on October 25, 2011, 01:47:43 am
Here's a card I came up with recently. Hopefully it's not a repeat.

Hidden Village
Cost: $4
+1 Card
Reveal your hand. +1 Action for each action card in your hand.

Rewards heavy action density, when used in multiples you get an obscenely high amount of actions. I wouldn't be surprised if optimal strategy was to pick up a decent number of these and just buy pure actions, forgoing money as much as possible. Overlaps with scrying pool a lot.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on October 26, 2011, 10:19:20 am
Ghost Village $4
(Action-Reaction)
+1 Card
+2 Actions
When you discard this other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.

Slick.  Unfortunately, I haven't played with Tunnel yet, so I'm still not sure how that particular Reaction point plays.  Seems like this ought to work, but whether $4 is the right price point or not, I don't know.  Maybe it is, since if you're discarding it for any reason, that (usually) means you're not playing it and also reaping the Village effect.  Plus, obviously in many situations it will be difficult or impractical or maybe even impossible to activate its cursing effect.

Tunnel is a good lesson here, I suppose.  2 VP for a $3 card is already a great deal, and somehow the fact that it gains Gold doesn't increase the price, like, at all.  So maybe something as strong as a cursing attack shouldn't raise the price of a Village much when it's tied to the same mechanic.

As a side-note, it's interesting to me that you could use this multiple times per turn.  With multiple plays of a digging card (Hunting Party, Adventurer, Golem) that can't find what it's looking for, you could activate the same Ghost Village over and over again.  Lots of Cellars in a thin deck could do that too.  (This is enough of an edge case that it probably shouldn't change the cost any -- I'm just making the observation.)

Quote
High Street or Market Street $4
(Action-Reaction)
+1 card
+2 Actions
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, +1 Buy, +$2

This feels like one of those cards where it's easy to reason it out to a $4 price point, but then playtesting makes it clear it should be $5.  I'm not saying that this is definitely one of those cards, but I've had that happen to me before, particularly in cases where the true hidden power of the card is not in any individual thing it does but in its versatility.  This card is either a Village or a Woodcutter, but the fact that you can make it either one, depending on what you need, feels pretty powerful.

One suggestion:  I'd change "reveal" to "discard," to prevent any confusion over whether a player may reveal it any arbitrary number of times (the usual rule for reaction cards) and get the Woodcutter bonus each time.  This is particularly an issue if someone is holding multiple copies of the card in his hand at the time -- is he revealing multiples, or the same one multiple times?  With a discard instead of a reveal, the confusion goes away.

Lastly, although it's a good observation that it isn't great with Minion and the other cards you mention, I guess it's not really any different than Minion skipping by your Treasure cards.   Since this is basically a Treasure card if you don't use its Village powers, that seems apt.  But I greatly prefer the way you've constructed this card to the Action-Treasure hybrid of many fan cards.  (Your card is roughly equivalent to an Action-Treasure card reading: "If you play this as an Action, +1 Card, +2 Actions.  If you play this as a Treasure, +1 Buy, +$2.")  I'm not completely sure why Action-Treasure feels wrong to me, but it does.

Quote
Gypsie Camp $5
(Action-Reaction)
+2 Actions
Name 1 card before revealing the top 4 cards of your deck. You may put one revealed copy of the named card into your hand, if you find any. You may discard one revealed card as well. Put the remaining cards on top of your deck in any order.
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.

A bit too complicated for my taste, but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work.  My fear is that it's undercosted.  With a choice of 4 cards, you'll probably guess one right, and there will also almost always be one you want to discard.  So you get some cycling, some top-deck-ordering, usually replace the card in your hand, AND the option to dispense with all that and curse instead?  Maybe $5 is still fine, but there's enough going on here that I can't really anticipate it.

If this were my card, though, I'd want to simplify it a bit and boil the card down to its basic essence.  (Unless there's some synergy between the different components I'm not seeing.)  Maybe make it a $4 Village, get rid of the cursing, and pick either cycling or top-decking but not both.  That seems like a decent Wishing Well/Village cross.  Alternately, if you wanted to keep both the cycling and top-decking, do it in a more structured way, like mandatorily discarding one card and top-decking the rest.  I realize it's not usually a great game design idea to remove choices from the player, but this card is so flexible already that imposing some constraints might improve the card.

By the way...

Quote
Should it always give you at least one card, even if you guess wrong? I dunno, really.

...if you go this route, note how unexpectedly powerful a simple Village+cycling combo is (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=305.msg7218#msg7218).
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on October 27, 2011, 12:34:33 am
One suggestion:  I'd change "reveal" to "discard," to prevent any confusion over whether a player may reveal it any arbitrary number of times (the usual rule for reaction cards) and get the Woodcutter bonus each time.  This is particularly an issue if someone is holding multiple copies of the card in his hand at the time -- is he revealing multiples, or the same one multiple times?  With a discard instead of a reveal, the confusion goes away.

I had meant to write "reveal and discard". That it was otherwise is just a gross oversight on my part.

Quote
Lastly, although it's a good observation that it isn't great with Minion and the other cards you mention, I guess it's not really any different than Minion skipping by your Treasure cards.   Since this is basically a Treasure card if you don't use its Village powers, that seems apt.  But I greatly prefer the way you've constructed this card to the Action-Treasure hybrid of many fan cards.  (Your card is roughly equivalent to an Action-Treasure card reading: "If you play this as an Action, +1 Card, +2 Actions.  If you play this as a Treasure, +1 Buy, +$2.")  I'm not completely sure why Action-Treasure feels wrong to me, but it does.

I hadn't realized that the reaction was essentially a treasure. I was only thinking of it as a non-terminal. But I agree with you that Action-Treasure cards just seems like a line not to ever cross. It's a bit aesthetically displeasing to have the two main resources of the game be stuck onto one card.

Quote
A bit too complicated for my taste, but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work.  My fear is that it's undercosted.  With a choice of 4 cards, you'll probably guess one right, and there will also almost always be one you want to discard.  So you get some cycling, some top-deck-ordering, usually replace the card in your hand, AND the option to dispense with all that and curse instead?  Maybe $5 is still fine, but there's enough going on here that I can't really anticipate it.

My reasoning was this: the guess-one-of-four could be difficult to use with black market or the variety-dependent cornucopia cards, and in effect discourage all but spammers to use it. It could also encourage counting (which not all people can do quickly enough), or freezing up when trying to even guesstimate how much of what is left in the deck. Therefore the discard-one and deck-ordering portions were to give an aspect of the card where it's much easier to make the optimal decision and not slow down the game.

Quote
If this were my card, though, I'd want to simplify it a bit and boil the card down to its basic essence.  (Unless there's some synergy between the different components I'm not seeing.)  Maybe make it a $4 Village, get rid of the cursing, and pick either cycling or top-decking but not both.  That seems like a decent Wishing Well/Village cross.  Alternately, if you wanted to keep both the cycling and top-decking, do it in a more structured way, like mandatorily discarding one card and top-decking the rest.  I realize it's not usually a great game design idea to remove choices from the player, but this card is so flexible already that imposing some constraints might improve the card.

Since I'm getting into a lot of unexplored territory with these three cards, perhaps I crammed too many ideas into too few cards... I wonder if these reactions could be better attached to some different actions... As for Gypsie Camp being all over the place and giving too much control, perhaps I can make it this:

Gypsie Camp $5
(Action-Reaction)
+2 Actions
Name 1 card before revealing the top 4 cards of your deck. You may put one revealed copy of the named card into your hand, if you find any. Either shuffle the remaining cards into your deck or discard them.
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on October 27, 2011, 08:12:24 am
Gypsie Camp $5
(Action-Reaction)
+2 Actions
Name 1 card before revealing the top 4 cards of your deck. You may put one revealed copy of the named card into your hand, if you find any. Either shuffle the remaining cards into your deck or discard them.
If you start your Buy Phase with this card in your hand, you may reveal it. If you do, each other player gains a Curse card.

I think I like top-decking better than shuffling, just for the manual labor.  But although that re-introduces some decision-making, I think it reads a lot clearer now.  Toss them all, or put them all back.  Simple.  Kind of like Navigator, I guess.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Tejayes on October 27, 2011, 10:19:52 am
This one comes from my still-in-major-progress Locomotion expansion:

DEPOT VILLAGE
---
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may put a Victory card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +$2.
--
Action - $4


And another that I've been toying with in the past (of course, it's just borrowing from Great Hall and Harem, but whatever):

HISTORIC VILLAGE
---
+1 Card
+2 Actions
-
2 VP
--
Action/Victory - $6


One more that popped into my head, so it's bound to stink:

RESORT VILLAGE
---
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+$2
-
This card can only be gained by trashing a Gold from your hand during your Buy phase. If you do, forfeit all other buys this turn. You cannot buy or gain this card any other way.
--
Action - 0*
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 27, 2011, 08:09:04 pm
I think if you compare Village to Smithy and Historic Village to Nobles, Historic Village shouldn't be more than $5.
Also with Resort Village I think you need to be more explicit about under which conditions you're allowed to trash a Gold for the RV.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Tejayes on October 28, 2011, 10:05:40 am
Also with Resort Village I think you need to be more explicit about under which conditions you're allowed to trash a Gold for the RV.

How about this?

RESORT VILLAGE
---
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
+$2
-
This card can only be gained by trashing a Gold from your hand at the start of your Buy phase. If you do, forfeit all other buys this turn. This card cannot be bought or gained any other way.
--
Action - 0*
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on October 28, 2011, 10:32:13 am
How about:  "In games using this, you may trash a Gold at the start of your Buy phase.  If you do, gain this and forfeit all buys for this turn.  This card cannot be bought or gained in any other way."

Still not completely convinced that's the ideal wording, but maybe it suffices.  If you tweaked the buy conditions a little, you could word it more cleanly.  For example, you could cost it at $7 (to be out of reach of Smugglers, though not Jester) and say:  "You can't buy this unless you have at least two Golds in play.  When you buy this, trash all Golds you have in play."

Obviously that's quite different from what you're going for, and I'm not saying it's better (just an off-the-cuff thought, really), but it's a way to attach a stiff penalty to purchasing it that doesn't require quite as much rules manipulation.  FWIW.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 28, 2011, 10:45:12 am
How about:  "In games using this, you may trash a Gold at the start of your Buy phase.  If you do, gain this and forfeit all buys for this turn.  This card cannot be bought or gained in any other way."

That's what I meant. Saying "The only way to do X is Y" does not imply "You may do Y".
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Tejayes on October 28, 2011, 10:49:31 am
How about:  "In games using this, you may trash a Gold at the start of your Buy phase.  If you do, gain this and forfeit all buys for this turn.  This card cannot be bought or gained in any other way."

I like that. Thanks.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on October 30, 2011, 10:07:19 pm
I think if you compare Village to Smithy and Historic Village to Nobles, Historic Village shouldn't be more than $5.
Also with Resort Village I think you need to be more explicit about under which conditions you're allowed to trash a Gold for the RV.

I don't think that's a very good analogy. Nobles is not that great of a card, and often ends up a liability to someone trying to build an engine. Sure, it's worth 2 vp in the end, but you could easily get ahead much further with dedicated action cards. The +1 card of a Village makes such a huge difference. I'd be much happier to see Historic Village in a hand with 1 other action, than draw a hand containing Nobles and 1 other action.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on October 31, 2011, 09:33:31 am
I think if you compare Village to Smithy and Historic Village to Nobles, Historic Village shouldn't be more than $5.
Also with Resort Village I think you need to be more explicit about under which conditions you're allowed to trash a Gold for the RV.

I don't think that's a very good analogy. Nobles is not that great of a card, and often ends up a liability to someone trying to build an engine. Sure, it's worth 2 vp in the end, but you could easily get ahead much further with dedicated action cards. The +1 card of a Village makes such a huge difference. I'd be much happier to see Historic Village in a hand with 1 other action, than draw a hand containing Nobles and 1 other action.

I think the logic, roughly, is:  "Smithy is a better card than Village and therefore costs more than it.  Therefore, Smithy + 2 VP (aka: Nobles) should cost more than Village + 2 VP (aka: Historic Village)."  The fact that Nobles can be used for actions instead of for cards only further increases its power relative to Historic Village.

I probably agree, although it's important to recognize that costs in the $2-4 range aren't necessarily comparable to costs in the $5-6 range.  I think Nobles is pretty underrated, mostly because it might be weak for a $6 card.  But it's still way better than a Smithy, which is a pretty strong $4.  In the absence of good combos, you'd probably usually rather have Nobles than Historic Villages.  Nobles makes a better X in a BM+X deck, and spamming Nobles is a lot better than spamming Historic Villages.

But a good counterargument might be to consider Harem as well.  Harem is a Silver + 2 VP, with those VP bumping the cost from $3 to $6.  Following that example, Village + 2 VP should indeed cost $6.  I suspect that both $5 and $6 are workable costs for the card, and you won't go hugely wrong either way.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on October 31, 2011, 10:21:44 am
I think if you compare Village to Smithy and Historic Village to Nobles, Historic Village shouldn't be more than $5.
Also with Resort Village I think you need to be more explicit about under which conditions you're allowed to trash a Gold for the RV.

I don't think that's a very good analogy. Nobles is not that great of a card, and often ends up a liability to someone trying to build an engine. Sure, it's worth 2 vp in the end, but you could easily get ahead much further with dedicated action cards. The +1 card of a Village makes such a huge difference. I'd be much happier to see Historic Village in a hand with 1 other action, than draw a hand containing Nobles and 1 other action.

I think the logic, roughly, is:  "Smithy is a better card than Village and therefore costs more than it.  Therefore, Smithy + 2 VP (aka: Nobles) should cost more than Village + 2 VP (aka: Historic Village)."  The fact that Nobles can be used for actions instead of for cards only further increases its power relative to Historic Village.

I probably agree, although it's important to recognize that costs in the $2-4 range aren't necessarily comparable to costs in the $5-6 range.  I think Nobles is pretty underrated, mostly because it might be weak for a $6 card.  But it's still way better than a Smithy, which is a pretty strong $4.  In the absence of good combos, you'd probably usually rather have Nobles than Historic Villages.  Nobles makes a better X in a BM+X deck, and spamming Nobles is a lot better than spamming Historic Villages.

But a good counterargument might be to consider Harem as well.  Harem is a Silver + 2 VP, with those VP bumping the cost from $3 to $6.  Following that example, Village + 2 VP should indeed cost $6.  I suspect that both $5 and $6 are workable costs for the card, and you won't go hugely wrong either way.

Yes pretty much all of this. The +2 Actions on Nobles is a bonus just in case you need it.

I did consider the Silver -> Harem argument, but I don't think this is as comparable to the others since it's a Treasure. The rest are all just dealing with + Cards and + Actions (and VP obviously) so are much more comparable. Sometimes you're after Treasure, sometimes you're after Actions. I just don't think a Village compares very well to the Action part of Nobles. It's okay that Harem and Nobles are the same price because their non-VP parts function entirely differently.

DP: your example was very situational, and not always true. Sure, if you're forced to take Nobles' +2 Actions you'd rather play a Village. But if that "other action" in your hand happens to be a Village variant or if it's a non-terminal and your deck is mostly Treasure, you'd often much rather have Nobles' Smithy effect.

So it's probably true that HV could work at $6. But in a game with both, I'm taking Nobles ahead of HV 99% of the time. If you're going for a Treasure deck, Nobles are great and HV doesn't really help (other than the 2VP without the clogging), and if you're building an Action deck you probably have some Village support anyway so $6 Villages aren't going to help you much.

I think by the time you're hitting $6, your deck is usually already taking shape so you either want an extra boost to get you to $8 (Gold), or a power card (Goons), or a transition between deck-building and greening (Harem), and/or some extra support for your deck (Nobles). You're not looking to buy Villages (obviously Border Village is the exception here and then you only want it if you have something good to pair it with or you would have bought a $5 card anyway so you may as well). Either you already have them or you're building a deck that doesn't need them.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling but hopefully I'm making some sense.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: chwhite on October 31, 2011, 10:46:24 am
Once again, because I love beating this drum:  Nobles is an excellent card, even for its price!  It probably doesn't deserve a Top 5 spot anymore, since I think Border Village replaced it as Honorable Mention (other spots going to KC, Goons, Grand Market, Peddler, Hoard), but it is still very strong, far better than Harem certainly.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: rinkworks on October 31, 2011, 11:47:47 am
Second Jimmmmm's point about a $6 Village being priced out of usefulness.  It's hard to get a $6 early, reliably, or in quantity, so if you're building an engine with Villages, you need them to be cheaper.  That's probably the best reason for pricing it at $5.  It's easy to get sidetracked comparing power levels (as I did), but gameplay is the greater factor.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: mail-mi on November 05, 2011, 04:11:13 pm
Are we still giving village ideas? Becuase I have a couple.
Destroyed Village
+2 cards
+2 actions
Discard 2 cards. Only one can be a victory card.
Action, $4

Villager
+1 card
+2 actions
Look at the top and bottom cards of your deck. Discard one and put the other on top of your deck.
Action, $4

Basically an upgraded Pearl Diver that is actually worth buying.

Wealthy Village
If played as an action,
+1 card
+2 actions
--
If played as a treasure,
$2
Action-Treasure, $4

Village when you need actions, silver when you don't.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jack Rudd on November 05, 2011, 04:45:32 pm
Are we still giving village ideas? Becuase I have a couple.
Destroyed Village
+2 cards
+2 actions
Discard 2 cards. Only one can be a victory card.
Action, $4

This can cause an unresolvable situation. Word it like this:

Destroyed Village
+2 cards
+2 actions
Discard an Action or a Treasure.
Discard a card.
Action, $4

Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Titandrake on November 05, 2011, 05:27:14 pm
This is Stupid.
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Multiply the number of actions you have by 2.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jack Rudd on November 05, 2011, 06:36:54 pm
This is Stupid.
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Multiply the number of actions you have by 2.
Now that would be a fun card to King's Court.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Titandrake on November 05, 2011, 08:14:44 pm
This is Stupid.
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Multiply the number of actions you have by 2.
Now that would be a fun card to King's Court.

Yes, if you want more actions than you know what to do with.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: WanderingWinder on November 05, 2011, 08:21:01 pm
This is Stupid.
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Multiply the number of actions you have by 2.
Now that would be a fun card to King's Court.

Yes, if you want more actions than you know what to do with.
Yeah, but it's clear what to do with them: Diadem. Because let's face it, this is a ridiculous and rare scenario anyway; so why not keep going?
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Titandrake on November 06, 2011, 01:26:09 am
Retroactively naming "Stupid Village"

KC - KC - Stupid Village - Stupid Village - Stupid Village then playing Diadem is $2^9 = $512.

Yeah that's just silly.

Edit: Forgot that because it's inside the KC, playing it doesn't take up an action. So it's actually...$1022
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 06, 2011, 01:31:17 am
Better hope you have some buys.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Saucery on November 06, 2011, 01:43:08 am
this one is from my fan exp, without the summon mechanic

Refugee Camp
Action
Cost: 4
+2 actions
Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

Very strong with handsize reducers, equal to a $3 village with 5 cards, and crappy with handsize increasers.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on November 06, 2011, 02:05:56 am
A pure Reaction (not labeled as also an Action) reverse-order village:

Pilgrim Camp $2
(Reaction)

If you draw a card during your action phase, you may reveal and discard this card. If you do, +1 Action.

***

It's missing the +1 card that would make it a closer mirror of Village, because such a card would be too often better than Village, as you could never draw it dead, but this wouldn't be a very exciting $4 village. Plus, we have too many of those already. I want another $2 village, as those inhabit much more unique design spaces. Obviously, this needs drawing power on the board to work at all, but even a single +1 card can trigger it.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Fangz on November 24, 2011, 08:47:09 am
On the subject of reverse ordering...

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Servants' Dormitory $4 action-reaction
+2 actions

Whenever you draw this, +1 card.
---

Basically, a village that can never be drawn dead when you play a smithy or whatever. Also has interesting combo potential with warehouse, spy, etc, and a defense against deck inspection based attacks.

Or the scarily powerful version:


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Servants' Dormitory $4P action-reaction
+2 actions

Whenever you draw this, +1 card, +$2.
---
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 24, 2011, 09:07:29 am
On the subject of reverse ordering...

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Servants' Dormitory $4 action-reaction
+2 actions

Whenever you draw this, +1 card.
---

Is it supposed to include drawing it at the end of your turn?
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Fangz on November 24, 2011, 10:11:41 am
Yes. I think that's probably simplest.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on November 27, 2011, 08:23:47 pm
Yes. I think that's probably simplest.

This card definitely needs a differently-colored back in order to work. That way, all players can witness the exact moment you put it into your hand. Otherwise there'd be no accountability built into this card. Reactions also usually have a command to "reveal" as part of their reaction mechanic, and the way you have this written, you don't even have to do that to draw the extra card. You need more precise wording.

I suggest the following:

In games using this, when you put a yellow-backed card into your hand, you may draw one card.

And then Servants' Dormitory would have yellow-colored backs. This wording would incentivize SD users to clearly but quickly show to everyone else exactly when they draw one into their hand, so that they can receive the benefit. The extra game rules used by cards such as Duchess, Young Witch, Trade Route, etc are sometimes the easiest way to implement certain ideas. Just trying to think of how a similar reaction could be written properly makes my head spin.

Of course, my solution introduces the problem of making shuffles technically not as random anymore. This was a feature for Stash, but might complicate Servants' Dormitory. Perhaps you should be given the option to space them however you'd like during a reshuffle as well?

Now, analyzing the actual play of this card: Even in boards without discard-for-benefit, the extra information and options granted by getting a large hand--before even playing your first action--is incredibly valuable.  Drawing a few of these in one turn basically turns it into a pseudo-Tactician turn. Granted, it's more the equivalent of a Tactician turn with a lot of nerfed Villages drawn, but you can use Nobles and Hunting Party to much greater effect. And I don't even have to delve into Vault, Stables, Cellar, etc, do I?

As for this card's interaction with hand-size reducing attacks... A hand swollen-up by SD's drawn during the cleanup phase might perhaps be somewhat vulnerable to such attacks, though it at least nerfs them into Margraves. I find that interesting, thought I don't know if it's good or bad.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Fangz on November 28, 2011, 10:41:53 am
I don't see why you need the card back - why would the player ever choose not to reveal the card? As worded, the player reveals when drawn, and if he forgets to do so, then that's his own fault.
Title: Re: How many niches for village-types are left? Can you think of any new ones?
Post by: Diving Pikachu on November 28, 2011, 09:54:29 pm
In the rules of Dominion, there's no dictated phase in drawing where you keep drawn cards separate from the rest of your hand before integrating both piles into one. Yet this card's reaction requires just such a phase, as that is the only time where it can be revealed. Although the idea is simple enough, it still has to be precisely and fully commanded by the text on the card, just as the deck-digging mechanisms of Farming Village and Golem have to be described as unambiguously as possible. I personally couldn't think of how to command such a significant change in how players draw cards that would fit on a single card. At the same time, I don't know if I'd want such a change to play that would slow down every turn by every player.