Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: O on June 11, 2012, 08:22:57 pm
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In a 2-player game with arbitrarily large basic money piles, what is the most (theoretical, not game-log)
A) Treasure overall (Copper/Silver/Gold/Platinum)
or
B) Golds only
that you can gain during your opponents turn? Measurement is in #cards, not value. You are your opponent are working together.
Obvious a few key cards here, but I'm interested in what secondary ones optimize it.
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Obvious helpers include:
King's Court
Governor
Tunnel
Vault
Sabotuer
Swindler
Ambassador
Masquerade
Trader
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familiar and mountebank + trader probably to max the card passing per action, for the inevitable KC chains
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Obvious helpers include:
King's Court
Governor
Tunnel
Vault
Sabotuer
Swindler
Ambassador
Masquerade
Trader
I know a key card not among that set ;)
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Possession? Technically, it's *his* turn, so you just trader his colonies. :) Otherwise Trusty Steed.
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10 highways in play. Opponent plays 10 kings courted saboteurs flipping 8 Tunnels each getting 240 golds. 10 kings courted mountebanks can get you 60 silvers if you have a trader in hand. You can get 10 gold if your opponent buys a Province and you have 10 FG in hand. So at least 310. I'm guessing you many of the governors to draw enough cards to pull this off. I don't even want to touch possession.
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Orite, no possession or outpost ::)
Axxle's is what I thought the best start is, but I'm pretty sure you can add onto that.
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10 highways in play. Opponent plays 10 kings courted saboteurs flipping 8 Tunnels each getting 240 golds. 10 kings courted mountebanks can get you 60 silvers if you have a trader in hand. You can get 10 gold if your opponent buys a Province and you have 10 FG in hand. So at least 310. I'm guessing you many of the governors to draw enough cards to pull this off. I don't even want to touch possession.
Governor could also help because of the trashing.
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Tunnel is $3 - Sab won't discard it, Sab'll trash it. Fortune teller or Rabble would also hit it and stop. You'd need Oracle or Pirate Ship to flip at most two cards at a time.
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132?
KC (1)formula is 2n-1, so 10 chained allow for 19 KC'd cards.
10 played on Montebank (2), while you hold a Trader (3) is 60 Silvers.
9 more played on Governor (4), gains you 27 more Silvers.
9 Jesters (5) gain you 9 Silvers
9 Swindlers (6) hit 7 Duchies and 2 Saboteurs (7), turning them into 9 Cache's (8) for 27 Silvers
7 Saboteurs hit 7 Provinces, turning them into 7 Gold
2 Ambassadors (9) return 2 Gold, gaining you 2 Gold.
Scrying Pool (10) to draw everything.
The KC-Governor provides the 27 actions needed for terminal plays.
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Tunnel is $3 - Sab won't discard it, Sab'll trash it. Fortune teller or Rabble would also hit it and stop. You'd need Oracle or Pirate Ship to flip at most two cards at a time.
With ten Highways in play Tunnel costs zero.
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Tunnel is $3 - Sab won't discard it, Sab'll trash it. Fortune teller or Rabble would also hit it and stop. You'd need Oracle or Pirate Ship to flip at most two cards at a time.
Unless you have a cost reducer out. Highway, Bridge and Princess all work.
edit: ninjad
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Can't tabulate all of these at the moment but this is my general outline:
Opponent plays 4 highways (golds now cost 2):
This allows:
Each sab to run through your entire deck & flip all your tunnels for 8 golds per sab run.
Minions with perfect shuffle luck, your first 2 minions dump 8 tunnels for 8 golds, your next 4 minions gain another 8 golds, your last minion gains you 4 more for a total 20 golds. You should be able to drive that higher with secret chamber.
There are many other discard attacks that can cycle your golds, but I think the best is noble brigand - discard tunnels and gain coppers, followed by oracle and perhaps margrave in there somewhere.
Gain caches from ambassador, swindler, jester, or governor. I think the easiest shot would be either to ambassador it over or to jester them.
Mountebank - 2 silvers per play with revealed trader (next best action to KC)
The above would be my main priorities. Below are the single coin gainers in descending order of ease of use.
Governor - gain silvers or upgrade BV -> bank (must be done after the sab craziness)
Igg - trader curses to silvers (can happen either in action phase or in buy phase)
FG - gain golds
Embassy - gain silvers
All the curse givers - gain a silver
Jester, etc. allow you to give over treasure other than cache.
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Everybody's forgetting KC's little brother, TR. But adding on to Axxle's solution, your opponent could KC ten governors too if you'd already drawn your deck, giving you 30 silvers. Then he could TR-Ambassador at least 20 of those pesky golds back to you too. That makes at least 360.
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Can't tabulate all of these at the moment but this is my general outline:
Opponent plays 4 highways (golds now cost 2):
This allows:
Each sab to run through your entire deck & flip all your tunnels for 8 golds per sab run.
Minions with perfect shuffle luck, your first 2 minions dump 8 tunnels for 8 golds, your next 4 minions gain another 8 golds, your last minion gains you 4 more for a total 20 golds. You should be able to drive that higher with secret chamber.
There are many other discard attacks that can cycle your golds, but I think the best is noble brigand - discard tunnels and gain coppers, followed by oracle and perhaps margrave in there somewhere.
Gain caches from ambassador, swindler, jester, or governor. I think the easiest shot would be either to ambassador it over or to jester them.
Mountebank - 2 silvers per play with revealed trader (next best action to KC)
The above would be my main priorities. Below are the single coin gainers in descending order of ease of use.
Governor - gain silvers or upgrade BV -> bank (must be done after the sab craziness)
Igg - trader curses to silvers (can happen either in action phase or in buy phase)
FG - gain golds
Embassy - gain silvers
All the curse givers - gain a silver
Jester, etc. allow you to give over treasure other than cache.
The Minions do not work. Once you discard your hand you only have four cards, so you do not discard again.
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Morgrim:
Ahh, sorry, didn't complete the train of thought there. After the first one, you could keep hitting them with a council room to cycle through again. In light of this, I'd keep one minion in the opening to gain 4 golds, then do up festival -> council room -> minion for a few more. I'm not sure if this will be the most effective use of council room or not
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Going for just gold here:
Your deck contains 8 tunnels, nothing else.
Oppenent plays scrying pool.
Highway 5x.
Ironworks gaining sab, vault, governor, swindler.
Throne room KC chain for twenty triples; nine doubles.
vault, vault, gain nine gold.
governor cards x2
vault x2: 8 gold.
Sab x1 24 gold.
gov/vault again 8 gold.
saboteur x9 216 gold.
onto thrones
jester x9 jester gold into more gold. 18 gold.
jester again 1 gold.
gov x4 vault x4 4 gold.
gov gov remodel tunnel to gold.
289 gold.
Probably full of errors, I'll edit later.]
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Going for just gold here:
Your deck contains 8 tunnels, nothing else.
Oppenent plays scrying pool.
Highway 5x.
Ironworks gaining sab, vault, governor, swindler.
Throne room KC chain for twenty triples; nine doubles.
vault, vault, gain nine gold.
governor cards x2
vault x2: 8 gold.
Sab x1 24 gold.
gov/vault again 8 gold.
saboteur x9 216 gold.
onto thrones
jester x9 jester gold into more gold. 18 gold.
jester again 1 gold.
gov x4 vault x4 4 gold.
gov gov remodel tunnel to gold.
289 gold.
Probably full of errors, I'll edit later.]
Sab can hit 1 province for another coin the first time, with it being at the end of the shuffle ;D