Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: werothegreat on May 25, 2012, 04:54:09 pm
-
I can't stop refreshing it - it puts up a new card every time! -bounces around-
http://playdominion.com/thank_you
-
(http://i.qkme.me/3pg6np.jpg)
-
Cool picture, but they misspelled "Apple" on the top of that weird tablet.
-
Cool picture, but they misspelled "Apple" on the top of that weird tablet.
Oddly, I don't think that's a tablet anyway. It's like a weirdly-stretched phone...
-
Noooo :-[
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
-
Can't....Stop....Refreshing....
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
The directory with the images. (http://playdominion.com/img/) Lookout, Masquerade, Pirate Ship all have the wrong expansion icon, too. The text at the bottom of duration cards is a bit messed-up too. Hopefully these aren't final graphics.
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
I would be very, very surprised if both:
- They want to ban gameplay videos for some reason.
- AND it's actually legally possible to ban gameplay videos.
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
The directory with the images. (http://playdominion.com/img/) Lookout, Masquerade, Pirate Ship all have the wrong expansion icon, too. The text at the bottom of duration cards is a bit messed-up too. Hopefully these aren't final graphics.
As a web developer, I find it a little unprofessional that A) They allow directory browsing on a public-facing site, and B) The images are named "card1.png" etc, instead of something descriptive of what the card is.
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
I would be very, very surprised if both:
- They want to ban gameplay videos for some reason.
- AND it's actually legally possible to ban gameplay videos.
Well, Donald X is known to prowl these forums, so we may have an answer to that soon...
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
I would be very, very surprised if both:
- They want to ban gameplay videos for some reason.
- AND it's actually legally possible to ban gameplay videos.
I'm pretty sure they can ban me from making videos of their product. Major League Baseball does it. On the other hand, there's a good chance I could get 'express-written consent (never implied oral consent!)' and then be ok, so long as I agreed to not profit off of it. Probably. Hey, theory's a lawyer, he'd know.
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
I would be very, very surprised if both:
- They want to ban gameplay videos for some reason.
- AND it's actually legally possible to ban gameplay videos.
I'm pretty sure they can ban me from making videos of their product. Major League Baseball does it. On the other hand, there's a good chance I could get 'express-written consent (never implied oral consent!)' and then be ok, so long as I agreed to not profit off of it. Probably. Hey, theory's a lawyer, he'd know.
This would be more like a baseball manufacturer banning people taking videos of themselves playing baseball.
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
The directory with the images. (http://playdominion.com/img/) Lookout, Masquerade, Pirate Ship all have the wrong expansion icon, too. The text at the bottom of duration cards is a bit messed-up too. Hopefully these aren't final graphics.
As a web developer, I find it a little unprofessional that A) They allow directory browsing on a public-facing site, and B) The images are named "card1.png" etc, instead of something descriptive of what the card is.
Yeah, this looks super professional as well... http://playdominion.com/js/script.js
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
The directory with the images. (http://playdominion.com/img/) Lookout, Masquerade, Pirate Ship all have the wrong expansion icon, too. The text at the bottom of duration cards is a bit messed-up too. Hopefully these aren't final graphics.
As a web developer, I find it a little unprofessional that A) They allow directory browsing on a public-facing site, and B) The images are named "card1.png" etc, instead of something descriptive of what the card is.
Yeah, this looks super professional as well... http://playdominion.com/js/script.js
...what's wrong with it?
-
Hmm... the Lookout on the website has a little Base castle in the corner instead of a Seaside anchor...
The directory with the images. (http://playdominion.com/img/) Lookout, Masquerade, Pirate Ship all have the wrong expansion icon, too. The text at the bottom of duration cards is a bit messed-up too. Hopefully these aren't final graphics.
As a web developer, I find it a little unprofessional that A) They allow directory browsing on a public-facing site, and B) The images are named "card1.png" etc, instead of something descriptive of what the card is.
Yeah, this looks super professional as well... http://playdominion.com/js/script.js
...what's wrong with it?
a. that they would need to reference stack overflow to generate a random number
b. that this kind of stuff is present in public-facing code
-
Reading the ToS, I'm a little worried about a couple things. First off logs. Now, I'm going to guess that having logs is going to be fine, and that sharing them everywhere is also good by them, but... man, I'd love for them to make that clear.
More of a concern, though, is videos, which appear pretty clearly prohibited to me. We may see the end pretty soon...
I would be very, very surprised if both:
- They want to ban gameplay videos for some reason.
- AND it's actually legally possible to ban gameplay videos.
I'm pretty sure they can ban me from making videos of their product. Major League Baseball does it. On the other hand, there's a good chance I could get 'express-written consent (never implied oral consent!)' and then be ok, so long as I agreed to not profit off of it. Probably. Hey, theory's a lawyer, he'd know.
Pretty sure if this was legal, game companies would have used it against reviewers long ago.
However, while I don't think they can ban you from making movies, they probably can ban your account FOR making movies.
-
...you may not copy, modify, translate, distribute, transmit, publish, republish, perform, display, post, download, upload, frame, make available, lend, hire, communicate to the public, adapt, or sell the FunSockets Content or any portion thereof.
Now, I'm not sure, but this looks to me like it would stop videos. I mean, post it, anyway. Maybe not record it. But somehow YouTubing the stuff seems like it would be distributing, transmitting, publishing, repubishing, displaying, posting, uploading, making available, something that is a portion of their content. Certainly communicating it to the public.
I especially think that it looks to apply due to:
With the exception of third party materials and user-generated materials as addressed below, all content available through the Service, including without limitation text, photographs, images, graphics, designs, audio, video, games, applications, software, and files ("FunSockets Content") is the proprietary content and property of, and is solely owned by, the Company.
Now clearly, the videos are user-generated, but they're using the site's stuff. So I don't think they'd qualify for this exception. Especially as if you read the pertinent part 'below' where they 'address' it, it seems to just refer to things that you post to their site, not stuff which in any way originates from it.
You may use the Service solely for your personal, noncommercial use.
This is a little bit that way too, but very clearly against any commercial gains of someone. Such as, like, (oh my, I sound like Ms. Teen South Carolina...), monetizing a youtube account these were posted on. I know people DO stuff like this all the time, but I'm very conscious NOT to.
-
...you may not copy, modify, translate, distribute, transmit, publish, republish, perform, display, post, download, upload, frame, make available, lend, hire, communicate to the public, adapt, or sell the FunSockets Content or any portion thereof.
Now, I'm not sure, but this looks to me like it would stop videos. I mean, post it, anyway. Maybe not record it. But somehow YouTubing the stuff seems like it would be distributing, transmitting, publishing, repubishing, displaying, posting, uploading, making available, something that is a portion of their content. Certainly communicating it to the public.
I especially think that it looks to apply due to:
With the exception of third party materials and user-generated materials as addressed below, all content available through the Service, including without limitation text, photographs, images, graphics, designs, audio, video, games, applications, software, and files ("FunSockets Content") is the proprietary content and property of, and is solely owned by, the Company.
Now clearly, the videos are user-generated, but they're using the site's stuff. So I don't think they'd qualify for this exception. Especially as if you read the pertinent part 'below' where they 'address' it, it seems to just refer to things that you post to their site, not stuff which in any way originates from it.
You may use the Service solely for your personal, noncommercial use.
This is a little bit that way too, but very clearly against any commercial gains of someone. Such as, like, (oh my, I sound like Ms. Teen South Carolina...), monetizing a youtube account these were posted on. I know people DO stuff like this all the time, but I'm very conscious NOT to.
Yeah, I agree it most likely would violate the ToS, and they could ban you for that.
However, until the content companies manage to ram some of their bought-and-paid for legislation through, violating the ToS is not against the law and I don't believe posting gameplay videos would violate copyright.
EDIT: of course this is just speculation... the ToS look pretty boilerplate to me, and I don't see what possible reason they would have to want to prevent publishing gameplay videos.
-
...you may not copy, modify, translate, distribute, transmit, publish, republish, perform, display, post, download, upload, frame, make available, lend, hire, communicate to the public, adapt, or sell the FunSockets Content or any portion thereof.
Now, I'm not sure, but this looks to me like it would stop videos. I mean, post it, anyway. Maybe not record it. But somehow YouTubing the stuff seems like it would be distributing, transmitting, publishing, repubishing, displaying, posting, uploading, making available, something that is a portion of their content. Certainly communicating it to the public.
I especially think that it looks to apply due to:
With the exception of third party materials and user-generated materials as addressed below, all content available through the Service, including without limitation text, photographs, images, graphics, designs, audio, video, games, applications, software, and files ("FunSockets Content") is the proprietary content and property of, and is solely owned by, the Company.
Now clearly, the videos are user-generated, but they're using the site's stuff. So I don't think they'd qualify for this exception. Especially as if you read the pertinent part 'below' where they 'address' it, it seems to just refer to things that you post to their site, not stuff which in any way originates from it.
You may use the Service solely for your personal, noncommercial use.
This is a little bit that way too, but very clearly against any commercial gains of someone. Such as, like, (oh my, I sound like Ms. Teen South Carolina...), monetizing a youtube account these were posted on. I know people DO stuff like this all the time, but I'm very conscious NOT to.
I think they'd be pretty stupid to take action against you for posting videos, even if it's just to ban your account with them. You'd basically be providing free advertising, making people more interested in their site, and by banning you they'd surely lose the support of some of the most important members of the community. Many video games (StarCraft II comes to mind, but I'm sure there are many others) have tons of commentary on YouTube, which I'm sure they love because it both brings in new people and keeps members more invested. So, I really doubt they'd do anything for posting videos, unless their marketing team is pretty dull.
-
Well, Donald X is known to prowl these forums, so we may have an answer to that soon...
I continue to be their pal, and they continue to want to control the flow of information, and so much for that.
I think it's fair to say this though: Trisha is in fact a woman.
-
It is entirely possible that this is the ToS for the beta, rather than the ToS for the site overall.
-
-bookmarks page-
This is so stupid…
…yet so addicting!
Has anyone gotten PhilStone? What are some other rare ones?
-
-bookmarks page-
This is so stupid…
…yet so addicting!
Has anyone gotten PhilStone? What are some other rare ones?
I got Phil Stone just a minute ago.
-
When asking about logs and archives of games this was the answer given:
Great question! It's something that we probably won't have right out the door, but we know that we have enough interest in them that we're seeing where they fit in the plan. So, pretty much I can say not yet, but we'll see what we can do.
:-\
-
When asking about logs and archives of games this was the answer given:
Great question! It's something that we probably won't have right out the door, but we know that we have enough interest in them that we're seeing where they fit in the plan. So, pretty much I can say not yet, but we'll see what we can do.
:-\
Oh no... both in that A) that sucks, and B) this thread is about to explode...
-
When asking about logs and archives of games this was the answer given:
Great question! It's something that we probably won't have right out the door, but we know that we have enough interest in them that we're seeing where they fit in the plan. So, pretty much I can say not yet, but we'll see what we can do.
:-\
Oh no... both in that A) that sucks, and B) this thread is about to explode...
Well, that's enough for me to not use them. I hope, but obviously cannot assume, that others are with me on this.
-
When asking about logs and archives of games this was the answer given:
Great question! It's something that we probably won't have right out the door, but we know that we have enough interest in them that we're seeing where they fit in the plan. So, pretty much I can say not yet, but we'll see what we can do.
:-\
Oh no... both in that A) that sucks, and B) this thread is about to explode...
Sorry about being off topic, but +1 for your 2,222 post.
-
When asking about logs and archives of games this was the answer given:
Great question! It's something that we probably won't have right out the door, but we know that we have enough interest in them that we're seeing where they fit in the plan. So, pretty much I can say not yet, but we'll see what we can do.
:-\
Oh no... both in that A) that sucks, and B) this thread is about to explode...
Well, that's enough for me to not use them. I hope, but obviously cannot assume, that others are with me on this.
Will you have any other options? When this goes live iso dies, right? Basically they will have a monopoly on online Dominion. It's either play there or only play IRL, right?
Are you saying that no logs means it's not worth playing at all?
Ed
-
I'm pretty sure someone (with more know how than me) could make a browser extension to create a log and save it to an online database.
-
I'm pretty sure someone (with more know how than me) could make a browser extension to create a log and save it to an online database.
Good idea. This should work unless they go out of their way to make it fail. It might take a lot of time to implement it, though.
-
Well, that's enough for me to not use them. I hope, but obviously cannot assume, that others are with me on this.
Will you have any other options? When this goes live iso dies, right? Basically they will have a monopoly on online Dominion. It's either play there or only play IRL, right?
Pretty much.
Are you saying that no logs means it's not worth playing at all?
My specific stance is, and for a while has been, this:
- Isotropic was effectively endorsed by RGG, who used it for playtesting.
- RGG is forcing Iso offline with this new site, and I fully understand the reasons for that.
- This replacement has no obvious reason not to have all the features of isotropic, given that one was put together by one guy in his spare time, and the other has a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months. This is especially true given that the new site is intended to make money.
- A replacement that does not have the features of isotropic is a significant disservice to a large community. In fact, while logs may seem minor, they are the bread and butter of this site and forum; the DS blog and much of the discussion here would be impossible or less useful without logs. Consider: solo challenges are gone when logs disappear. Annotated games are gone. "Great Moments." "What Did I Do Wrong?" Any full explanation of a combo. Half the useful discussion on this forum disappears.
- While the community is not in a position to demand anything, we are in a position to say "this is not acceptable customer relations." The only way we can go about this is a boycott.
- Therefore, until the replacement for isotropic has all the features of isotropic, I intend to boycott not just the online app, but RGG as a whole. As a single-person boycott is ineffective, I will strongly and loudly suggest that others boycott the site and RGG as well.
TL;DR version: RGG has lost my business entirely until such time as the new site has all the functions of isotropic. (They had already lost my business several months ago with the continued information silence.) I've said for a while I would gladly pay RGG to play on an isotropic clone, but that's not what they're selling. They're selling an inferior product, and I can spend my time and money elsewhere. I can play Dominion face-to-face, and I can do it without the last two expansions.
I hope, but do not expect, others will support a boycott.
-
I'm pretty sure someone (with more know how than me) could make a browser extension to create a log and save it to an online database.
And do their work for them?
-
Well, that's enough for me to not use them. I hope, but obviously cannot assume, that others are with me on this.
Will you have any other options? When this goes live iso dies, right? Basically they will have a monopoly on online Dominion. It's either play there or only play IRL, right?
Pretty much.
Are you saying that no logs means it's not worth playing at all?
My specific stance is, and for a while has been, this:
- Isotropic was effectively endorsed by RGG, who used it for playtesting.
- RGG is forcing Iso offline with this new site, and I fully understand the reasons for that.
- This replacement has no obvious reason not to have all the features of isotropic, given that one was put together by one guy in his spare time, and the other has a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months. This is especially true given that the new site is intended to make money.
- A replacement that does not have the features of isotropic is a significant disservice to a large community. In fact, while logs may seem minor, they are the bread and butter of this site and forum; the DS blog and much of the discussion here would be impossible or less useful without logs. Consider: solo challenges are gone when logs disappear. Annotated games are gone. "Great Moments." "What Did I Do Wrong?" Any full explanation of a combo. Half the useful discussion on this forum disappears.
- While the community is not in a position to demand anything, we are in a position to say "this is not acceptable customer relations." The only way we can go about this is a boycott.
- Therefore, until the replacement for isotropic has all the features of isotropic, I intend to boycott not just the online app, but RGG as a whole. As a single-person boycott is ineffective, I will strongly and loudly suggest that others boycott the site and RGG as well.
TL;DR version: RGG has lost my business entirely until such time as the new site has all the functions of isotropic. (They had already lost my business several months ago with the continued information silence.) I've said for a while I would gladly pay RGG to play on an isotropic clone, but that's not what they're selling. They're selling an inferior product, and I can spend my time and money elsewhere. I can play Dominion face-to-face, and I can do it without the last two expansions.
I hope, but do not expect, others will support a boycott.
That's great and all, which is why i +1ed it, but only if things look as bad when things are released. So let me remind everybody that basically all information we have is that
a) the official version is not out yet and
b) it doesn't has logs yet.
I don't want to conclude from that single mail how the final product will look. And I don't want to believe that the final product will have cards with wrong symbols.
Or to put things differently:
Few days ago, everybody complained that we had no information; now we have some information, but everybody is complaining at what the product probably will look hinted by this little information.
Note: "everybody" is an exaggeration.
-
Well, Donald X is known to prowl these forums, so we may have an answer to that soon...
I continue to be their pal, and they continue to want to control the flow of information, and so much for that.
I think it's fair to say this though: Trisha is in fact a woman.
And a very polite one on emails, as well.
-
How about we spam tham that we want the logs? >:(
-
How about we spam tham that we want the logs? >:(
I think that would be less influential than a well-reasoned email with the backing of the F.DS community.
-
How about we spam tham that we want the logs? >:(
I think that would be less influential than a well-reasoned email with the backing of the F.DS community.
Like, like, like. (+1, +1, +1?)
-
How about we spam tham that we want the logs? >:(
I think that would be less influential than a well-reasoned email with the backing of the F.DS community.
I have no reason to believe that we hold much, if ANY sway with them. Heck, I have no reason to believe that they know this community exists.
-
It was mentioned before that they do actually read these forums. Or perhaps it was only board game geek. Regardless it was on dougz AMA on reddit. He mentioned that they browse the forums. I have no reason to doubt dougz.
-
That's great and all, which is why i +1ed it, but only if things look as bad when things are released. So let me remind everybody that basically all information we have is that
a) the official version is not out yet and
b) it doesn't has logs yet.
I don't want to conclude from that single mail how the final product will look. And I don't want to believe that the final product will have cards with wrong symbols.
Or to put things differently:
Few days ago, everybody complained that we had no information; now we have some information, but everybody is complaining at what the product probably will look hinted by this little information.
Note: "everybody" is an exaggeration.
Well, you're right that I can't conclude how the product will look based on that email, sure. But if a software company says "we're not sure if that will be available at rollout," what they mean is "that won't be available at rollout." Therefore, the initial product won't have logs.
As far as going from no info to very little info, it's a bad sign when the very little info we have is bad news. It's not as though the little bit of info we got was "here's a list of features that are totally in!" It was "here's something your community relies on that isn't in yet, and probably won't be at rollout." At least with no news we could hope they'd do as well as isotropic; now, we know they won't.
How about we spam tham that we want the logs? >:(
I think that would be less influential than a well-reasoned email with the backing of the F.DS community.
I like this idea, but there are a couple of problems with it. First, the logs really aren't the only thing the community would continue to want. Second, we would have to get the community to agree on any sort of letter about features, which might be difficult. Third, such a letter is meaningless unless we're willing to hit them in the pocketbook. And I see an actual boycott by F.DS as unlikely at best; probably more like wishful thinking on my part.
-
// Author: Andrew J. Prasetyo Jo
// Credits to:
// http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1527803/generating-random-numbers-in-javascript-in-a-specific-range
function getRandomInt(min, max) {
return Math.floor(Math.random() * (max - min + 1)) + min;
}
a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months.
As a first semester software engineering student, I can confidently say that this is not a team of professionals, this is a work experience kid.
-
Well,
http://andrewprasetyojo.heroku.com/
-
The image-shuffling script is the work of a graphic designer, not one of the programming team. It's funny, but don't get too worked up about it.
-
// Author: Andrew J. Prasetyo Jo
// Credits to:
// http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1527803/generating-random-numbers-in-javascript-in-a-specific-range
function getRandomInt(min, max) {
return Math.floor(Math.random() * (max - min + 1)) + min;
}
a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months.
As a first semester software engineering student, I can confidently say that this is not a team of professionals, this is a work experience kid.
Don't know that you can be so confident without any experience at a company. Some companies make you document EVERYTHING and show where you found it, where the credit is, blah blah blah. Let me tell you, it is annoying for the programmers too, but when they're paying your bills, you go with it...
-
// Author: Andrew J. Prasetyo Jo
// Credits to:
// http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1527803/generating-random-numbers-in-javascript-in-a-specific-range
function getRandomInt(min, max) {
return Math.floor(Math.random() * (max - min + 1)) + min;
}
a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months.
As a first semester software engineering student, I can confidently say that this is not a team of professionals, this is a work experience kid.
Don't know that you can be so confident without any experience at a company. Some companies make you document EVERYTHING and show where you found it, where the credit is, blah blah blah. Let me tell you, it is annoying for the programmers too, but when they're paying your bills, you go with it...
I think the point is that a good programmer shouldn't need to document where he found this idea, but rather come up with this simple routine by himself.
-
Well,
http://andrewprasetyojo.heroku.com/
At the risk of sounding like the Grammar Nazi, the "About" section of his webpage is riddled with poor English and spelling errors. This may say nothing about his programming skills but it does suggest an inattention to detail, and/or a failure to involve others to mitigate his weaknesses. I have to chuckle at the irony when a designer's own web page is less than inspiring.
-
// Author: Andrew J. Prasetyo Jo
// Credits to:
// http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1527803/generating-random-numbers-in-javascript-in-a-specific-range
function getRandomInt(min, max) {
return Math.floor(Math.random() * (max - min + 1)) + min;
}
a team of professionals who, theoretically, have been working full time for an least a couple months.
As a first semester software engineering student, I can confidently say that this is not a team of professionals, this is a work experience kid.
Don't know that you can be so confident without any experience at a company. Some companies make you document EVERYTHING and show where you found it, where the credit is, blah blah blah. Let me tell you, it is annoying for the programmers too, but when they're paying your bills, you go with it...
I think the point is that a good programmer shouldn't need to document where he found this idea, but rather come up with this simple routine by himself.
You totally missed my point. My point is that there are companies that DON'T LET YOU DO THAT.
-
I do not believe that there are companies who will not let you write your own code without then finding somewhere which has written the same code before and giving the credit to somebody else.
-
You totally missed my point. My point is that there are companies that DON'T LET YOU DO THAT.
How can you say where you found things when you didn't find things at all? Do you mean that there are companies that, every time you come up with a new line of code, let you browse the web if someone else already had written a similar line and, if so, credit them? That would be totally ridiculous, and I don't really want to believe it, but ok, ridiculous things exist.
-
I do not believe that there are companies who will not let you write your own code without then finding somewhere which has written the same code before and giving the credit to somebody else.
The point is, whoever it is did not come up with this method of generating random numbers on his own. Seriously? He learned it somewhere. Now, it's a very very basic thing, but he did not like write the random number generator itself. It would be truly idiotic to do this every time, because somebody else has already done it, and man, that's just a big waste of time.
It's not that they won't let you write ANYTHING new, it's just that, oh, this is a common, thing, it's been established, there's an established procedure, and you have to follow that and document it. Because the bureaucrats above you will hammer you if you don't. Probably because they don't understand what you're doing, and so if you can't tell them this stuff, they're scared. It's bad management, of course, to an extent. It's legal teams to another extent. It sucks in all phases.
I have three pretty close family members that, at one level or another, write code for a living. You'd be surprised at what they make you do. Now, some of them, it's worse than others, for sure. It really depends on the company you're working for.
If the guy actually had to look this up, then yeah, that's a major problem, the guy doesn't know what he's doing. Like, from absolutely no programming knowledge to start, working at it maybe 5 hours a week (probably less), you get this stuff down in a couple months. Working full time, I'd expect you'd have it down in the first couple weeks. But does anyone actually think that this guy doesn't know how to do that on his own?
-
Still, he is making the website and not the application itself. (Hopefully).
And "web designers" are a joke, really. Real programmers use emacs.
-
The image-shuffling script is the work of a graphic designer, not one of the programming team. It's funny, but don't get too worked up about it.
This. Also, his website says he works for some company that isn't FunSockets, so maybe he was doing this freelance.
Besides, although needing to cite this code would be embarrassing for a dedicated Javascript programmer, it's totally reasonable for someone who doesn't use Javascript much. Many languages would provide a "random integer in a range" routine in the standard library, so it's natural to try to find that first. If your searches turn up this snippet instead and you use it, then it's appropriate to cite it.
-
Real programmers use emacs.
I thought real programmers use vi. ;)
-
Including jQuery and jQuery Validation just to validate a single email field is probably more troubling than a citation in the Javascript, as is locking down copyright yet allowing directory listing in Apache. I'll agree with the others, though, and say the citation indicates it's probably a designer and not a programmer.
On the flip side, I can't imagine a designer letting those cards get into his or her work. Every single designer I know is completely anal about typography.
Putting those things together, my bet is that this was thrown together during a lunch break because the developer/designer had real work to do, and we shouldn't read too much into it.
-
Still, he is making the website and not the application itself. (Hopefully).
And "web designers" are a joke, really. Real programmers use emacs.
I use Netbeans. Web design and programming in one!
-
Real programmers use emacs.
I thought real programmers use vi. ;)
Obligatory reference:
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png)
-
I'm disappointed to see the classic Gold instead of the new one.
-
Today's the start of Origins, yes? I wonder if anyone who posts on this forum is going and might get a chance to try the program.
-
Today's the start of Origins, yes? I wonder if anyone who posts on this forum is going and might get a chance to try the program.
Dealers' room would only be limited hours today I think--like 2 to 6--and most people are just getting there tonight. I think tomorrow is the earliest we'll hear anything.
That said, do we know of anyone on the forums going? Despite my proximity, I was unable to go.
-
Today's the start of Origins, yes? I wonder if anyone who posts on this forum is going and might get a chance to try the program.
Dealers' room would only be limited hours today I think--like 2 to 6--and most people are just getting there tonight. I think tomorrow is the earliest we'll hear anything.
That said, do we know of anyone on the forums going? Despite my proximity, I was unable to go.
I will be driving down today. I may not make the dealer's room today, but definitely tomorrow, and will seek out anything I can find and report back to the mothership.
-
We have our first screenshot:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1328941/dominion
-
What's with the Estates being placed on the right, with the money, while all the other victory cards are on the left?
Sorry, it just wouldn't be a post about the official app without a complaint about it! ;D
-
We have our first screenshot:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1328941/dominion
Impressions: looks decently good, but...
Why are Colony, Province, Duchy on the left, whereas estate is with curse on the right? (not that this is actually a real problem).
I assume there's mint, silver, copper, silver in play. Is this the opponent's cards played? I have to assume that's the case, and you've got copper, monument, colony, pawn, and gold in your hand.
I assume that avatar in the lower left corner represents you.
Is the junk in the bottom right (there's a copper with an eye over it) your discard pile? If so, can we have any inkling as to how many cards are in it? I guess not, but in a real game, there's some indication of how big the stack is.
Above the avatar in the lower left, there's a rectangular box with a cardback and a number twelve. I assume this is your draw deck, and there's 12 cards in it. Why does this box have enough space for you to have another deck stacked up above that?
Above that rectangle, there's another avatar, which is, I assume, your opponent. Next to that we see a silver, which is, I assume, the top card in his or her discard pile. There's a little tiny card below him. I assume that means he or she has at least one card left in the draw deck.
Okay, issues:
Where's the trash (maybe that's the thing on the lower left)?
Actually, how did we get to this game state?
More important, why can't I see how many cards my opponent has left in his hand?
What is that 1 in a VP chip thing in the lower left? I guess it's probably some kind of level thing relating to your user information.
-
WW brings up many good points. What really concerns me, though, is how the app is going to handle game states where I have like 20 cards in my hand and another 15 in play. There doesn't seem to be much room with the current layout to deal with huge draw engines.
-
I guess bottom right is the trash (eye to look into it), free space next to draw deck is the discard. 1 in bottom left is either VP chips or levels (I guess VP chips. HE does have a monument). Not really hard to get to this game state. I agree on deck next to avatar being top of opponent's discard. Your opponent played a Mint 2 Silvers and a Copper, he has no more actions, 1 buy and 5 coins.
I don't feel the huge need to have such big "playing area".. but its ok. I am interested of how durations are kept track of. Estate being away from other greens threw me off as well ;D I hope there is a way to see relative size of opponent's deck, its is important.
Overall I am satisfied, it looks clean, you can see everything and so on.
Edit: but jont's does bring up a good point. I guess cards in play area can be reduced, and hand stacked more together (like when you actually have many cards in hand) but.. we'll see.
Is there any word on what platforms will it work on?
-
Maybe this version is "squished" to fit the ipad screen? I would guess the Estate is normally on the left, but this game has colonies so it got shifted over.
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Looks like they did a pretty good job fitting everything relevant onto the iPad screen. Only thing I'd really question is why the cards in my hand are spread. No reason to carry over that physical limitation into a computer version.
Sad things: no text log, and doesn't look like there's room for an optional point counter. These might be different on a PC version though.
-
Hmm.. maybe there is an option that you cards in hand look the same way they look in supply. That would work.
-
Also, on the more paranoid side of screenshot analysis, this screenshot only has cards from Base (Cellar, Chancellor, Bureaucrat), Intrigue (Trading Post, Pawn), Seaside (Treasure Map, Navigator), and Prosperity (Bishop, Monument, Mint), provided I'm not getting expansions mixed up. Hopefully all expansions are in when they launch.
-
Also, on the more paranoid side of screenshot analysis, this screenshot only has cards from Base (Cellar, Chancellor, Bureaucrat), Intrigue (Trading Post, Pawn), Seaside (Treasure Map, Navigator), and Prosperity (Bishop, Monument, Mint), provided I'm not getting expansions mixed up. Hopefully all expansions are in when they launch.
And the more positive way to look at that, is that you can pick and choose expansions to play with?
-
Sad things: no text log, and doesn't look like there's room for an optional point counter. These might be different on a PC version though.
So it is confirmed there will be PC version?
Windows only or multiplatform?
I really hate smartphones/Apple Products, and while I know I'll be forced one day to get the former, I'd like it to be as late as possible.
And yeah, no Cornucopia/Hinterlands/Alchemy so far, but its still WIP.
-
Sad things: no text log, and doesn't look like there's room for an optional point counter. These might be different on a PC version though.
So it is confirmed there will be PC version?
Windows only or multiplatform?
I really hate smartphones/Apple Products, and while I know I'll be forced one day to get the former, I'd like it to be as late as possible.
And yeah, no Cornucopia/Hinterlands/Alchemy so far, but its still WIP.
Yes. From BGG:
"I asked Funsockets whether it'll be cross platform. Or more specifically whether "Will the iOS app connect to players who are playing at PlayDominion.com?"
The answer is yes."
Seems to imply there's a pc version
-
Great. ;D Thanks also.
Now I just need to cross my fingers that they'll use some platform independent technology for PlayDominion.com and not Silverlight/Unity/similar crap.
-
It will be html5 probably if you look at their page: www.funsockets.com
-
Great. ;D Thanks also.
Now I just need to cross my fingers that they'll use some platform independent technology for PlayDominion.com and not Silverlight/Unity/similar crap.
Their website indicates they program pretty much only in HTML5, so it should be independent.
My immediate question on seeing it was: why are the cards in hand not sorted? Will I be able to sort them? Why are the cards in play not sorted? Why the heck are the cards splayed like that? I can't imagine actually holding them like that in my hand...
Other than that, what WW said, basically.
-
Great. ;D Thanks also.
Now I just need to cross my fingers that they'll use some platform independent technology for PlayDominion.com and not Silverlight/Unity/similar crap.
Their website indicates they program pretty much only in HTML5, so it should be independent.
My immediate question on seeing it was: why are the cards in hand not sorted? Will I be able to sort them? Why are the cards in play not sorted? Why the heck are the cards splayed like that? I can't imagine actually holding them like that in my hand...
Other than that, what WW said, basically.
Why should they be sorted? I assume they're in the order you drew/played them in.
-
It will be html5 probably if you look at their page: www.funsockets.com
Great. ;D
-
Why should they be sorted? I assume they're in the order you drew/played them in.
Well, if there's a mechanism to sort them myself, then OK, but I'm not sure why it wouldn't sort them on its own somehow--much like Iso. The order in which I drew them can only ever be useful in after-the-fact analysis.
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Does that mean it's native or browser? Because lots of people on BGG were bitching about that...
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Does that mean it's native or browser? Because lots of people on BGG were bitching about that...
Browser. Although it doesn't rule out the possibility that they would release it in a native shell. (Edit: This is wrong.)
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Does that mean it's native or browser? Because lots of people on BGG were bitching about that...
Browser. Although it doesn't rule out the possibility that they would release it in a native shell.
I don't think this is correct. The SDK allows you to set the status bar to the black translucent style in a native app.
It could very well be a web site, but I don't think you can tell from just the status bar.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but I believe Apple's terms don't allow for an app in the store that's nothing other than a webview to wrap a website.
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Does that mean it's native or browser? Because lots of people on BGG were bitching about that...
Browser. Although it doesn't rule out the possibility that they would release it in a native shell.
I don't think this is correct. The SDK allows you to set the status bar to the black translucent style in a native app.
It could very well be a web site, but I don't think you can tell from just the status bar.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but I believe Apple's terms don't allow for an app in the store that's nothing other than a webview to wrap a website.
Whoops, you are absolutely correct. Even the included Weather app appears to have this style of status bar.
-
So, it's definitely a home screen web app then, since it has the black translucent status bar.
Does that mean it's native or browser? Because lots of people on BGG were bitching about that...
Browser. Although it doesn't rule out the possibility that they would release it in a native shell.
I don't think this is correct. The SDK allows you to set the status bar to the black translucent style in a native app.
It could very well be a web site, but I don't think you can tell from just the status bar.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but I believe Apple's terms don't allow for an app in the store that's nothing other than a webview to wrap a website.
Whoops, you are absolutely correct. Even the included Weather app appears to have this style of status bar.
Everyone at BGG seems to think that it's a native app (and they're quite excited about that!) but I think they're just going off of the fact that they don't see an address and search bar at the top. Probably don't realize that you can tell a website to hide that stuff on mobile Safari. Based on FunSocket's site, it seems most likely that the whole thing is HTML5.
-
Why are Colony, Province, Duchy on the left, whereas estate is with curse on the right? (not that this is actually a real problem).
Because it's a Colony game. Normally it's Province Duchy Estate, Gold Silver Copper Curse. With Colonies, Estate doesn't fit there, and since you buy Copper/Estate/Curse less often than other cards, they're together there.
I assume there's mint, silver, copper, silver in play. Is this the opponent's cards played? I have to assume that's the case, and you've got copper, monument, colony, pawn, and gold in your hand.
Yes Mint etc. are opponent's cards in play, thus the person who took this picture wasn't making people wait.
I assume that avatar in the lower left corner represents you.
Yes.
Is the junk in the bottom right (there's a copper with an eye over it) your discard pile? If so, can we have any inkling as to how many cards are in it? I guess not, but in a real game, there's some indication of how big the stack is.
The trash is in the bottom right.
Above the avatar in the lower left, there's a rectangular box with a cardback and a number twelve. I assume this is your draw deck, and there's 12 cards in it.
Yes.
Why does this box have enough space for you to have another deck stacked up above that?
Discard pile.
Above that rectangle, there's another avatar, which is, I assume, your opponent. Next to that we see a silver, which is, I assume, the top card in his or her discard pile. There's a little tiny card below him. I assume that means he or she has at least one card left in the draw deck.
That's one card in his hand.
Where's the trash (maybe that's the thing on the lower left)?
Lower right.
Actually, how did we get to this game state?
Man I wasn't there, but it's not weird-looking. An opponent played Mint on something, then played some treasures and is considering what to buy. Meanwhile our hero has a hand that includes some stuff that must have looked good at the time.
More important, why can't I see how many cards my opponent has left in his hand?
You can.
What is that 1 in a VP chip thing in the lower left? I guess it's probably some kind of level thing relating to your user information.
It's a VP chip from playing Monument on a previous turn.
Duration cards go to the right of your deck, very small. Pirate Ship / Island / Native Village stuff is all over there to the right of your deck/discard.
Currently you can't actually see the trash - that eye lets you see all of the kingdom cards at once, without having to click on them individually, which you can also do. Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
When you have a million cards in play, they scrunch up, and that's fine, you can click on one if you really want to see it, but you just don't have to see them, you can see your total number of coins and buys and so on (to the left of cards in play), and you can see that cards are cheaper from Bridge and whatever. Anyway if you desperately need to know and there are a million, you can click on them to blow them up. When you have a million cards in your hand, they scrunch up, and I've never been unable to play my hand but if you try to push it it can be hard to tell some action cards apart without clicking on them, which you can do though.
Other opponents go above the displayed opponent. Opponent duration cards show up somewhere near the avatar, but certain other information like number of Pirate Ship tokens is not currently visible except when it increments. If anyone thinks this information will not become available unless they point it out personally, I am sad for the state of humanity.
-
...explanation...
Thanks, Donald!
I hope you understand that I wasn't trying to complain, more just a reaction to everything I saw, stream-of-consciousness style (this explains the irrelevant-to-the-discussion comment on the game-state; looks like 'our hero' got a pair of treasure maps to go off, and used the 4 gold to buy a colony... probably not the best play, but again, irrelevant. Indeed, it's interesting how much you can tell without a log - though I definitely want logs!). Actually, I think it says a lot of good things that you can tell 90% of the stuff in 5-10 minute. The whole thing seems pretty intuitive. And many of the issues I missed, people seemed to figure out after a little while too (the bottom right being trash instead of discard, the extra space above the deck then being for discards, etc.). I'm sure it would be more intuitive actually playing a game, too. So it bodes well, though there's still a lot that obviously needs to be done. My only hope is that they get the major stuff (the biggest thing being all the cards) done before release. But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards. Anyway, thanks for the information, as always.
-
I hope you understand that I wasn't trying to complain, more just a reaction to everything I saw, stream-of-consciousness style
Yes, I just felt like I couldn't mention anything being missing without trying to fence off complaints about such things.
I forgot the chat log, that is the biggest thing missing there currently. This is mattering as we speak; you can play an exciting online game of Dominion with Donald X. at Origins, but he is just some mysterious card-playing automaton outside of the lobby.
-
I'm outraged that a million card hand is possible!
-
I really like how it displays the opponent's actions/buys/coins--something that isotropic doesn't.
One thing I'm curious about--how are the decision cards handled by the interface? i.e., how do I make my 2 choices for Pawn? Since this interface shows the card with all its text, I'm imagining something where the text directly on the card lights up and becomes clickable or something. Something else is fine too, as long it's not like BSW :P
-
Is it possible to play a single player game or is this only for pvp?
-
Is it possible to play against a computer? If it isn't, is it possible to set the skill level? That would be interesting.
-
I really like how it displays the opponent's actions/buys/coins--something that isotropic doesn't.
Yeah. You really need to consult the log for this.
Also information that is easier to access/see (you either need to bring up info or consult the log):
VP chips, exact number of cards in deck, opponents hand size, duration cards, cards in play (useful for things like peddler). Actually an improvement ;D
-
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
-
One thing I'm curious about--how are the decision cards handled by the interface? i.e., how do I make my 2 choices for Pawn? Since this interface shows the card with all its text, I'm imagining something where the text directly on the card lights up and becomes clickable or something. Something else is fine too, as long it's not like BSW :P
Stuff like Pawn is handled with buttons, four buttons show up to the right of in-play and you mark two. Some stuff works differently; you pick what to trash to Chapel by clicking on the cards or dragging them to the trash, then click a Done button.
There is an AI.
-
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Sweet, I would like the kind of person you meet in online Dominion to be as friendly as possible.
-
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Sweet, I would like the kind of person you meet in online Dominion to be as friendly as possible.
Ok, that was a pretty good comeback... so we know the price will be > 0, will you tell us if it's going to be upfront or monthly fee?
-
Is it possible to play against a computer? If it isn't, is it possible to set the skill level? That would be interesting.
The developers I chatted with said that AIs would be available and suggested that they would be user-creatable as well. They also suggested that quickmatch between players would somehow take level into account; I didn't ask any specific questions about the matchmaking or rankings 'cause I figured that's stuff that's still very likely to change.
-
Quickmatch taking into account level would be perfect. I know there are good matchmaking systems out there.
-
Also - user-creatable AIs? Cool!
-
Ok, that was a pretty good comeback... so we know the price will be > 0, will you tell us if it's going to be upfront or monthly fee?
I asked the developers about pricing when I demoed the game and at least the ones I talked to weren't very clear about the pricing; I'm not sure if anyone is. They suggested that there would be some minimal level that's available for free. I indicated that I would prefer to just pay a flat sum and not worry about being nickel-and-dimed, and they seemed to indicate that that's a common desire that they were taking into account. But of course, who knows what the final cost structure will look like after everyone has had their say.
-
Is it possible to play against a computer? If it isn't, is it possible to set the skill level? That would be interesting.
The developers I chatted with said that AIs would be available and suggested that they would be user-creatable as well. They also suggested that quickmatch between players would somehow take level into account; I didn't ask any specific questions about the matchmaking or rankings 'cause I figured that's stuff that's still very likely to change.
What I meant to say was will it be possible to set the level of the computer, but do you know, after chating with the developers?
-
Is it possible to play against a computer? If it isn't, is it possible to set the skill level? That would be interesting.
The developers I chatted with said that AIs would be available and suggested that they would be user-creatable as well. They also suggested that quickmatch between players would somehow take level into account; I didn't ask any specific questions about the matchmaking or rankings 'cause I figured that's stuff that's still very likely to change.
What I meant to say was will it be possible to set the level of the computer, but do you know, after chating with the developers?
My best guess is yes. Outside of the ingame interface, the UI listed some sort of "Campaign" mode that wasn't working on the demo systems. If the AI is indeed pluggable, it's easy to imagine an advanced UI vs. one that's less sophisticated, or even programmed to make questionable/reckless plays.
-
Is it possible to play against a computer? If it isn't, is it possible to set the skill level? That would be interesting.
The developers I chatted with said that AIs would be available and suggested that they would be user-creatable as well. They also suggested that quickmatch between players would somehow take level into account; I didn't ask any specific questions about the matchmaking or rankings 'cause I figured that's stuff that's still very likely to change.
What I meant to say was will it be possible to set the level of the computer, but do you know, after chating with the developers?
My best guess is yes. Outside of the ingame interface, the UI listed some sort of "Campaign" mode that wasn't working on the demo systems. If the AI is indeed pluggable, it's easy to imagine an advanced UI vs. one that's less sophisticated, or even programmed to make questionable/reckless plays.
This will be interesting to se what the "highest" level will do on some boards.
-
I suspect that it would be interesting from an AI point of view and not from a playing-dominion point of view; I strongly suspect that even the best AI would be worse than the top players here... If they manage to make an AI that is better or even on par with Stef, Obi-Wan, WW, Geronimoo, etc., I will be very, very impressed.
I like the fact that they'll have a Campaign mode. One thing which Isotropic does not do at all is provide a way for new people to get in to the game, besides just jumping in to the deep end with the sharks and spending half a zillion games being blindsided by cards you've never seen before. It's either that or spend lots of time reading forums or strategy guides before starting. I think it is a very good idea to have some sort of sequential mode, where you start off playing with just the base set, and gradually add more cards until you know what you're doing - much easier for people to get in to the game that way, IMO. Or some equivalent way of ramping up from newbie to 'have at least seen most of the cards that could come up randomly'.
-
I suspect that it would be interesting from an AI point of view and not from a playing-dominion point of view; I strongly suspect that even the best AI would be worse than the top players here... If they manage to make an AI that is better or even on par with Stef, Obi-Wan, WW, Geronimoo, etc., I will be very, very impressed.
I like the fact that they'll have a Campaign mode. One thing which Isotropic does not do at all is provide a way for new people to get in to the game, besides just jumping in to the deep end with the sharks and spending half a zillion games being blindsided by cards you've never seen before. It's either that or spend lots of time reading forums or strategy guides before starting. I think it is a very good idea to have some sort of sequential mode, where you start off playing with just the base set, and gradually add more cards until you know what you're doing - much easier for people to get in to the game that way, IMO. Or some equivalent way of ramping up from newbie to 'have at least seen most of the cards that could come up randomly'.
There's a campaign mode? I must have missed this
-
sitnaltax just mentioned it a few posts up
-
I suspect that it would be interesting from an AI point of view and not from a playing-dominion point of view; I strongly suspect that even the best AI would be worse than the top players here... If they manage to make an AI that is better or even on par with Stef, Obi-Wan, WW, Geronimoo, etc., I will be very, very impressed.
If they made an AI that could play at lvl 25 on iso I'd be impressed.
-
For a campaign mode style, it wouldn't seem improbable that they could:
A) Set the boards (non random)
B) Set the "AI" to get a certain amount of shuffle luck
You could control interaction (no attacks, or certain other cards), and you could make the "AI"" get the worst shuffle luck possible, or the best. You leave it up to the player to beat THAT, rather than a program.
Ideal? No. But it could be a place to start so that you "recreate" play at all levels.
-
campaign mode could just be fancy terminology for solo challenges.
-
... you can play an exciting online game of Dominion with Donald X. at Origins
Looks like I should have figured out a way to go to origins...
-
I suspect that it would be interesting from an AI point of view and not from a playing-dominion point of view; I strongly suspect that even the best AI would be worse than the top players here... If they manage to make an AI that is better or even on par with Stef, Obi-Wan, WW, Geronimoo, etc., I will be very, very impressed.
If they made an AI that could play at lvl 25 on iso I'd be impressed.
It's true. On the other hand, you should be able to write an AI that performs well, if not 40+ caliber, for a prespecified board. And really... the campaign for public use shouldn't require you to be able to beat the ten best players in the world.
-
But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards.
This. Good to hear some more info, and it sounds like an indication that they're still a ways away from finishing.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Bad troll! Stop shooting at the messenger, dammit!
-
If Donald's happy, I'm happy.
-
The thing I'm mostly concerned of is the playing pace, which was annoyingly slow at BSW, especially for some card (like Menagery, where the hand is revealed every time with some fancy slow animation). Now these graphics remind me a bit of the BSW surface, and I really hope that playing a card will work like instantly and without being "nicely" animated.
-
The thing I'm mostly concerned of is the playing pace, which was annoyingly slow at BSW, especially for some card (like Menagery, where the hand is revealed every time with some fancy slow animation). Now these graphics remind me a bit of the BSW surface, and I really hope that playing a card will work like instantly and without being "nicely" animated.
Animation speed will be an option somewhere. For me personally, as they have it now, at "fast" it's good, at "very fast" it's too fast, and at "normal" it's too slow. The only thing here is, whatever you have it set to, in a game with humans, you're limited to the slowest player - it doesn't matter how fast it shows the animation for you if they aren't doing anything because they're waiting for theirs to finish. So ideally this will be a criteria for matching people up or something. Anyway yes, they have "nice" animations, it was an issue for me too, and they added faster ones.
-
The thing I'm mostly concerned of is the playing pace, which was annoyingly slow at BSW, especially for some card (like Menagery, where the hand is revealed every time with some fancy slow animation). Now these graphics remind me a bit of the BSW surface, and I really hope that playing a card will work like instantly and without being "nicely" animated.
Animation speed will be an option somewhere. For me personally, as they have it now, at "fast" it's good, at "very fast" it's too fast, and at "normal" it's too slow. The only thing here is, whatever you have it set to, in a game with humans, you're limited to the slowest player - it doesn't matter how fast it shows the animation for you if they aren't doing anything because they're waiting for theirs to finish. So ideally this will be a criteria for matching people up or something. Anyway yes, they have "nice" animations, it was an issue for me too, and they added faster ones.
Sounds like a reasonable solution, since I understand that this is sort of a compromise between real "gamers" and casual players who obviously like nice animations and slower paced play.
-
But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards.
This. Good to hear some more info, and it sounds like an indication that they're still a ways away from finishing.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Bad troll! Stop shooting at the messenger, dammit!
Really? You don't find his comment at all offensive after over a year of slipped release dates and enforced silence?
-
But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards.
This. Good to hear some more info, and it sounds like an indication that they're still a ways away from finishing.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Bad troll! Stop shooting at the messenger, dammit!
Really? You don't find his comment at all offensive after over a year of slipped release dates and enforced silence?
No. I really really don't. You find it OFFENSIVE?
-
But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards.
This. Good to hear some more info, and it sounds like an indication that they're still a ways away from finishing.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Bad troll! Stop shooting at the messenger, dammit!
Really? You don't find his comment at all offensive after over a year of slipped release dates and enforced silence?
No. I really really don't. You find it OFFENSIVE?
Maybe aggravating is a better word than offensive... although I did enjoy seeing it in reply to your comment.
It's too bad your face is so firmly planted upside DVX's posterior, I would have enjoyed seeing you two get in a slap fight.
-
Ever waiting for some other software? Blizzard Games? Duke Nukem Forever? Anything really.
(We) Software Engineers are the worst kind of people when it comes to dealing with deadlines. ::)
-
But I'd rather them push release back than to release a product below their standards.
This. Good to hear some more info, and it sounds like an indication that they're still a ways away from finishing.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Oh, really, the app is going to be absolutely perfect then? Good to hear!
Seriously why are you this way? If I had any desire before to ever buy another product from you I certainly wouldn't now.
Bad troll! Stop shooting at the messenger, dammit!
Really? You don't find his comment at all offensive after over a year of slipped release dates and enforced silence?
No. I really really don't. You find it OFFENSIVE?
Maybe aggravating is a better word than offensive... although I did enjoy seeing it in reply to your comment.
It's too bad your face is so firmly planted upside DVX's posterior, I would have enjoyed seeing you two get in a slap fight.
I understand you probably don't grasp this, and you probably won't take my word for it, but you can agree with someone, on a lot of things, without being an apologist for them. Happens a lot when both of you just take a reasonable look at things.
Aggravated also describes how I feel about it, but I don't let it get to me so much. And my aggravation isn't with Donald because... what do you want *him* to do really? They don't want him to talk about it, really, why should he? I mean, they should let him, but that's not on him, it's on them. So it's between you, and them. He's in business with them, to an extent, he's going to pick them. Is he doing the thing that's best for him? Yup. Do I have a problem with that? Nope.
Also, and you might not understand this either, I don't like offending people. I try not to do it.
(BTW, it should be DXV, not DVX).
-
I don't see how it's aggrevating or offensive at all. He gave us information on it. Yes it doesn't have all the expansions or even the right symbols at the bottom. That's not DXV's doing. I'm actually hopeful for the implementation if the worst thing they do is have a few wrong symbols.
Anyways to keep it short thanks for the information I look forward to more as we approach release.
-
I don't see how it's aggrevating or offensive at all. He gave us information on it. Yes it doesn't have all the expansions or even the right symbols at the bottom. That's not DXV's doing. I'm actually hopeful for the implementation if the worst thing they do is have a few wrong symbols.
Anyways to keep it short thanks for the information I look forward to more as we approach release.
Do you mental giants understand the purpose of quoting?
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
-
I don't see how it's aggrevating or offensive at all. He gave us information on it. Yes it doesn't have all the expansions or even the right symbols at the bottom. That's not DXV's doing. I'm actually hopeful for the implementation if the worst thing they do is have a few wrong symbols.
Anyways to keep it short thanks for the information I look forward to more as we approach release.
Do you mental giants understand the purpose of quoting?
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
They have testers for that. You haven't even played the game.
-
They have testers for that. You haven't even played the game.
Really sherlock, you don't say? If you're not going to read the thread, why not just keep your mouth shut.
-
They have testers for that. You haven't even played the game.
Really sherlock, you don't say? If you're not going to read the thread, why not just keep your mouth shut.
I have been reading the thread. You need to stop getting so pissy about everything. You need to stop acting so righteously angry whenever a Dominion product doesn't come out exactly the way you want it to, exactly on time. If you get off on this sort of nonsense, go read A Song of Ice and Fire. Experience waiting five years for the next book, all the while wondering if the author is going to die halfway through writing, THEN come get pissy about deadlines not being met.
-
I don't see how it's aggrevating or offensive at all. He gave us information on it. Yes it doesn't have all the expansions or even the right symbols at the bottom. That's not DXV's doing. I'm actually hopeful for the implementation if the worst thing they do is have a few wrong symbols.
Anyways to keep it short thanks for the information I look forward to more as we approach release.
Do you mental giants understand the purpose of quoting?
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
Was he wrong? did you not do the VERY thing he knew would happen? Donald is ALWAYS met with negativity whenever he gives any information. He owe's us nothing, purchasing the game and its expansions doesn't entitle us to talking with him. He does it because he's a nice guy.
I AM a software engineer. OBVIOUS flaws DO get fixed for release. It's those pesky quirky ones that only happens if x is followed by y is followed by z that don't always get caught. Does any software ever get released bug free HELL NO. Every single bug fix or feature add ends up breaking something that didn't even seem related but I digress.
Donald X new someone would rage about things and shoot the messenger, and thats exactly what happened. I'm frankly surprised he keeps coming back to give us information.
-
I don't see how it's aggrevating or offensive at all. He gave us information on it. Yes it doesn't have all the expansions or even the right symbols at the bottom. That's not DXV's doing. I'm actually hopeful for the implementation if the worst thing they do is have a few wrong symbols.
Anyways to keep it short thanks for the information I look forward to more as we approach release.
Do you mental giants understand the purpose of quoting?
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
Was he wrong? did you not do the VERY thing he knew would happen? Donald is ALWAYS met with negativity whenever he gives any information. He owe's us nothing, purchasing the game and its expansions doesn't entitle us to talking with him. He does it because he's a nice guy.
I AM a software engineer. OBVIOUS flaws DO get fixed for release. It's those pesky quirky ones that only happens if x is followed by y is followed by z that don't always get caught. Does any software ever get released bug free HELL NO. Every single bug fix or feature add ends up breaking something that didn't even seem related but I digress.
Donald X new someone would rage about things and shoot the messenger, and thats exactly what happened. I'm frankly surprised he keeps coming back to give us information.
Because not all of the reaction is negative. There're users like me who hop around the room and salivate every time we see those five green stars in front of a post.
-
Do you mental giants understand the purpose of quoting?
I don't know about the mental giants. But I do.
Being able to see the trash, like every other thing anyone will helpfully point out in that cute outraged way people have, is obv. needed and will obv. be done, obv., and no you are not the first one to think of this, hypothetical helpful outraged person.
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
I don't think his tone is really that denigrating here. He's trying to head off complaints from the OUTRAGED people. If you're one of them, then don't worry about it. If you are... well, the point is, don't be outraged. There's a long way from annoyance to outrage. He's trying to say 'yes, we know that this is an issue, and so we're working on it, don't freak out'. He's trying to stop people from going nuts, because they're giving information, and it's not perfect yet. He knows there's problems, so he doesn't want people to go to the extremes. He's being pre-emptive. You can't have it both ways, either you want the information, or you only want a perfect product.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
Agree with that. On the other hand, I don't know that we're the people to bring it up, and, moreover, they KNOW it's a problem. So I don't think screaming that there's a problem is going to help.
-
Oh, and
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
If you think it's OBVIOUS that you're not complaining, then you OBVIOUSLY haven't argued with someone like yourself.
-
Oh, and
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
If you think it's OBVIOUS that you're not complaining, then you OBVIOUSLY haven't argued with someone like yourself.
Lrn2grammar, buddy guy.
You have a seriously AGGRAVATING habit, WanderingWinder, of quoting out of context and making deliberate misinterpretations. It's almost as annoying as your tendency to shift the topic whenever one of your baseless assertions is challenged.
Of course I'm complaining, just not about that particular thing (which is why I quoted a completely separate part of the message).
-
I don't think his tone is really that denigrating here. He's trying to head off complaints from the OUTRAGED people. If you're one of them, then don't worry about it. If you are... well, the point is, don't be outraged. There's a long way from annoyance to outrage. He's trying to say 'yes, we know that this is an issue, and so we're working on it, don't freak out'. He's trying to stop people from going nuts, because they're giving information, and it's not perfect yet. He knows there's problems, so he doesn't want people to go to the extremes. He's being pre-emptive. You can't have it both ways, either you want the information, or you only want a perfect product.
Fair enough, but I think trying to head off outrage by basically telling potential complainers that they should piss off, is going to be a self-defeating strategy.
-
I don't think his tone is really that denigrating here. He's trying to head off complaints from the OUTRAGED people. If you're one of them, then don't worry about it. If you are... well, the point is, don't be outraged. There's a long way from annoyance to outrage. He's trying to say 'yes, we know that this is an issue, and so we're working on it, don't freak out'. He's trying to stop people from going nuts, because they're giving information, and it's not perfect yet. He knows there's problems, so he doesn't want people to go to the extremes. He's being pre-emptive. You can't have it both ways, either you want the information, or you only want a perfect product.
Fair enough, but I think trying to head off outrage by basically telling potential complainers that they should piss off, is going to be a self-defeating strategy.
Clearly, that's what you do... ::)
I didn't read Donald as saying that at all. If you did, then uh, okay, I would think that's a bad move too.
-
Oh, and
Obviously I'm not complaining about him finally providing some information, I'm say that his denigrating tone towards hypothetical suggestions aggravates me, particularly in light of the poor job the publishers and developers have done so far in terms of releasing either a product or information.
if you think it's OBVIOUS that every OBVIOUS flaw in an alpha will be fixed by release time, then it's OBVIOUS you have no experience with software development.
If you think it's OBVIOUS that you're not complaining, then you OBVIOUSLY haven't argued with someone like yourself.
Lrn2grammar, buddy guy.
You have a seriously AGGRAVATING habit, WanderingWinder, of quoting out of context and making deliberate misinterpretations. It's almost as annoying as your tendency to shift the topic whenever one of your baseless assertions is challenged.
Of course I'm complaining, just not about that particular thing (which is why I quoted a completely separate part of the message).
You're telling ME to learn grammar. LOL. My grammar is probably not perfect, I grant you, because I'm not taking the time to proofread anything really. But... well, you're very funny.
I don't make deliberate misinterpretations. If I'm misinterpreting something you say, it's because I'm not understanding it; I'm simply misinterpreting myself, not just in public. The fault may be with you, not getting your point across clearly, or it might be with me, in not understanding something you've made sufficiently clear.
I sometimes quote out of context, but I try not to, at least without saying 'this is out of context'. I don't see how what you're saying there is lacking any relevant context. Also, show me any of my assertions which is, in fact, baseless, or any time I've changed the subject when challenged.
LightningEdit: Guess he can't...
-
Was barsooma banned, or did (s)he just delete his/her profile?
-
The smart money would point towards banned. Not exactly shocking if you've followed his posting career here.
-
The smart money would point towards banned. Not exactly shocking if you've followed his posting career here.
Yeah, I mean, yelling at the creator of the game for which this forum exists solely to discuss... not exactly smart.
-
Can we get back to talking about the game instead of about barsooma now?
Let the wild speculation run rampant!
Did I hear something about moddable or plug-in or-user AIs? Do we have any sort of information on what'll be available? (Where on the spectrum from some sort of full API to drop-down menus to select behavior?)
I wish I had the dedication to try making a Dominion AI. I've thought a lot about it, but it's such a big project...
-
Can we get back to talking about the game instead of about barsooma now?
Let the wild speculation run rampant!
Did I hear something about moddable or plug-in or-user AIs? Do we have any sort of information on what'll be available? (Where on the spectrum from some sort of full API to drop-down menus to select behavior?)
I wish I had the dedication to try making a Dominion AI. I've thought a lot about it, but it's such a big project...
I'm guessing it would be more of the latter, with options to select for preferred cards or preferred strategies (big money, engines, etc). Hell, maybe even make one that buys Chancellor over Silver.
-
I didn't ban him (I was away the weekend), and rrenaud says he did not either. Seems like it resolved itself.
-
Like some others I also have an issue with animations, if there is no option for both turning animations off and only playing against other players without animations, I don't think I'll bother trying it. Even many Isotropic games are too slow for my liking.
-
Like some others I also have an issue with animations, if there is no option for both turning animations off and only playing against other players without animations, I don't think I'll bother trying it. Even many Isotropic games are too slow for my liking.
Donald X has already stated that the animation speeds shown are medium, and that there is a fast setting as well and the fast is pretty comparable. He also mentioned that he hopes that their is the ability to pair based on it for quickmatches because well if the other person is still watching you play a card then your effectively on medium.
Isotropic is too slow? How? Isotropic does the BARE MINIMUM it straight resolves actions theres no animation.
-
Pawn.
Hamlet.
Navigator.
3 things that slow down the game a lot, from top of my head. Many more there.
-
Pawn.
Hamlet.
Navigator.
3 things that slow down the game a lot, from top of my head. Many more there.
Pirate Ship attack, or Pirate Ship money... Attack... Money... Hmmmm.... HMMMMM....
-
Pawn.
Hamlet.
Navigator.
3 things that slow down the game a lot, from top of my head. Many more there.
Pawn and Hamlet I'll give you, but how does Navigator slow the game down by any significant amount?
-
I know I did.
I had things like Nav, Nobles, Cantrips.. It was awfully slow to decide what order do you leave stuff in to be optimal.
-
these types of things seem to be components of dominion strategy that slow the game down. Insomniac seemed to be referring to features specific to Isotropic which slowed the gameplay down.
for every half second lost clicking on a pawn or hamlet make sure to remember all of the time saved by instant shuffling and automatic counting of points at the end of the game.
-
Isotropic is generally pretty awesome for interface effectiveness, but it doesn't make good use of the available screen space. I'll use three examples:
Pawn. I have to pick 2 of 4 options with tiny check boxes. If the options I could pick were the same size as the cards in my hand, this would be easier and faster to select.
Navigator. I need to reorder 5 cards. The drag hit test region is tiny. If it presented the cards at the same size as the hand cards, with the images from the hand cards, and let me drag them, it would be much easier to order them.
King's court. I need to pick a card to play 3 times. Why not just let me click on the hand cards? It would be easier to find(ie, I've already internalized their order, there are images, and the hit region is much larger). Instead I see a row of text and have to go hunt for the card that I want to play.
The main problem is that it takes longer to click on a tiny piece of text than it does on a big image. If most of the choice actions(e.g. pick this or that) were large images I could click, the game would play faster.
-
Also - Vault - when you need to click many checkboxes.
Margrave - when you need to click 3, but as things are tiny I tend to loose track of my options (esp when I change around trying for best combination).
-
Pawn. I have to pick 2 of 4 options with tiny check boxes. If the options I could pick were the same size as the cards in my hand, this would be easier and faster to select.
At first I was like, "They are the same size, what is this guy talking about?"
And then I was like, "Oh yeah, people use the image interface, not the text one."
King's court. I need to pick a card to play 3 times. Why not just let me click on the hand cards?
I imagine this one is because it was simply easier for dougz to program it this way.
-
I was definetly talking about things in the interface, it doesn't count as slowing you down if its strategy related as thats a problem you have with the game (WHY is having decisions ever a bad thing?)
-
Might you be referring to newbs who insist on revealing Moat until isotropic starts yelling at them?
-
Like some others I also have an issue with animations, if there is no option for both turning animations off and only playing against other players without animations, I don't think I'll bother trying it. Even many Isotropic games are too slow for my liking.
Donald X has already stated that the animation speeds shown are medium, and that there is a fast setting as well and the fast is pretty comparable. He also mentioned that he hopes that their is the ability to pair based on it for quickmatches because well if the other person is still watching you play a card then your effectively on medium.
Isotropic is too slow? How? Isotropic does the BARE MINIMUM it straight resolves actions theres no animation.
I never said that Isotropic was slow, i said that some games played at Isotropic are slow. That happens for two reasons:
1. Slow cards, for instance pawn, hamlet and scrying pool (I often veto scrying pool just because I cannot stand the 3-min turns).
2. Slow players, and I'm not talking about thinking what to buy the first rounds (or the occasional break for thinking later), but when you take ages both playing actions and buying every round you are too slow for my liking.
-
Animation speed will be an option somewhere. For me personally, as they have it now, at "fast" it's good, at "very fast" it's too fast, and at "normal" it's too slow. The only thing here is, whatever you have it set to, in a game with humans, you're limited to the slowest player - it doesn't matter how fast it shows the animation for you if they aren't doing anything because they're waiting for theirs to finish. So ideally this will be a criteria for matching people up or something. Anyway yes, they have "nice" animations, it was an issue for me too, and they added faster ones.
I am sure the vast majority of higher tier players would embrace an option to completely turn off animations.
-
Animation speed will be an option somewhere. For me personally, as they have it now, at "fast" it's good, at "very fast" it's too fast, and at "normal" it's too slow. The only thing here is, whatever you have it set to, in a game with humans, you're limited to the slowest player - it doesn't matter how fast it shows the animation for you if they aren't doing anything because they're waiting for theirs to finish. So ideally this will be a criteria for matching people up or something. Anyway yes, they have "nice" animations, it was an issue for me too, and they added faster ones.
I am sure the vast majority of higher tier players would embrace an option to completely turn off animations.
Or middle tier players even. Animations are great for graphics-based real-time games; I wouldn't want to play, say, Diablo 3 without animations telling me what's happening. But when I play, for instance, Civ, I usually turn animations off, as they're not useful to the game.
Also, if the animation at any speed is any slower than my physically playing a card (as they are on BSW), that's just plain ridiculous. It takes me significantly less than half a second for my card to go from my hand to the table... I should expect a computer animation to be even faster.
-
This talk of animation kinda scares me because it tells me the developers are making a product nothing like isotropic (and yes isotropic is hard to beat) and definitely not anything like what I want out of a dominion game. I mean yeah don't judge until you try it bla bla, but who actually thinks anyone wants "animations" when playing Dominion? bleh :(
It makes me think of animations in poker clients, which was awesome for the first 3 days of my 6 years of playing. After that I obviously turned it off and didn't think twice about it since it's awful, except here you supposedly can't turn it off?
-
I think we all agree that we want it very fast; either super fast animations or no animations at all.
This is not just Dom, but any card game that is transferred to virtual play. I know when I played Yu-Gi-Oh on PC, damn was I happy when I saw you can run it with -speedy argument to speed all animations up significantly (unfortunately, all the talking that your opponent done - while animation was sped up, the sound wasn't - was PAINFUL). Iso handled it great with simple, clear, generally fast interface (few bumps).
-
Well, yeah, they're making a computer game. Most games out there have some visual flair, not surprised that Funsockets Dominion will too. Honestly, making it look prettier than iso is one of the things I definitely *expected* out of it. And if "animation speed will be an option somewhere", then you can just set that on high and have it be as fast as no animation at all.
Lack of logs, well, that would be a problem, definitely. But animations aren't a problem IMO.
-
This talk of animation kinda scares me because it tells me the developers are making a product nothing like isotropic (and yes isotropic is hard to beat) and definitely not anything like what I want out of a dominion game. I mean yeah don't judge until you try it bla bla, but who actually thinks anyone wants "animations" when playing Dominion? bleh :(
What you should for sure not judge until you try it, is something that I have already said flat out will be fine.
-
Are you saying that because you say it will be fine, everyone will think it's fine? I must be misunderstanding or something.
Anyway yeah, I hope I'm wrong.
-
Are you saying that because you say it will be fine, everyone will think it's fine? I must be misunderstanding or something.
Anyway yeah, I hope I'm wrong.
I think he says that if there is a option he feels is fast enough, and even one that is faster than he likes, maybe you should worry about something else? (LOGS!!!!!!!11111elf).
Anyway, I remember having read costumizable AI, so I won't complain on anything until I see it.
-
As I said before, things like speed and animations are always issues for compromises, because experienced players will always have other wishes and demands than the common casual player. And such a product is of course made for the big market and not just for a group of online Dominion geeks like us. Keeping that in mind, the mentioned options to set up your speed preferences, are as close to the best compromise as you can get, and I'm quite pleased with the solution.
-
Are you saying that because you say it will be fine, everyone will think it's fine? I must be misunderstanding or something.
Anyway yeah, I hope I'm wrong.
Someone said, I am paraphrasing, "I am worried about animations."
And I said, "I know what you mean but it will totally be fine, I have seen to it."
And you said "oh now I'm worried about the animations."
Makes no sense.
-
I'm glad you find the animations sufficiently fast and think they'll be fine, but I don't understand why that means I will agree. Different people have different tastes, and nothing you have written makes me think that "disabling animations" is a bad idea any more than I thought an hour ago, just like I think it would be a horrible idea to not have a "disabling animations" option for poker clients or Magic Online or whatever.
-
I'm glad you find the animations sufficiently fast and think they'll be fine, but I don't understand why that means I will agree. Different people have different tastes, and nothing you have written makes me think that "disabling animations" is a bad idea any more than I thought an hour ago, just like I think it would be a horrible idea to not have a "disabling animations" option for poker clients or Magic Online or whatever.
Why does "someone who can get stuff done cares about this issue" *increase* your amount of worry?
You can't completely disable animations without adding an in-game log, because some of those animations convey information about what's happening in the game, e.g. what card your opponent gains with Workshop. But you don't need an in-game log as long as you have time to see that card.
-
I haven't said it increases my amount of worry. I learned about it a few minutes before I made my first post, then following your latest couple posts I guess the amount I worry has either stayed the same or decreased slightly.
Well, until this latest post, which I guess does increase the amount I worry. The only way of finding out what an opponent gains with Workshop being to follow the action at all times or risk missing it sounds like a really bad decision which I hope is reconsidered before launch. I'm glad you're reading this and other feedback and (obviously) care about the quality of the program though, so I'm definitely still hoping for the best.
-
I haven't said it increases my amount of worry. I learned about it a few minutes before I made my first post, then following your latest couple posts I guess the amount I worry has either stayed the same or decreased slightly.
Well, until this latest post, which I guess does increase the amount I worry. The only way of finding out what an opponent gains with Workshop being to follow the action at all times or risk missing it sounds like a really bad decision which I hope is reconsidered before launch. I'm glad you're reading this and other feedback and (obviously) care about the quality of the program though, so I'm definitely still hoping for the best.
I think what the game tries to do is to be as close as possible to real life play. And there you don't have logs, and you've got to pay attention to what your opponents do in real time.
Probably we all should try to get rid of the thought the official version will be anything like isotropic. It version will probably rather be something like the BSW thing, but with all (or most) of its disadvantages eliminated.
-
Maybe even if we don't have logs, we can get replays? Like, some way of saving the game and then uploading it so someone else with the app can watch it. That would at least work for discussing existing games, though not for parsing them for councilroom stats.
-
I think the developers have other things on their mind than adding logs. This app has the potential to be downloaded Xmillion times. We isotropic players probably make up less than 1% of the target audience. The more casual players will be happiest if they get to play their Village, have it slide into the play area, have a cool sound effect of a bunch of Villagers shouting, play their Smithy (with the sliding and the sound effect of a hammer hitting metal) and do it all over again. I'd even encourage them NOT to work on some of the stuff we suggest and instead try to make the most succesful product. That way they'll have all the budget they want to add all the features isotropic users would like to see.
-
Maybe even if we don't have logs, we can get replays? Like, some way of saving the game and then uploading it so someone else with the app can watch it. That would at least work for discussing existing games, though not for parsing them for councilroom stats.
They plan to have game logs in a machine-readable format. There just isn't an in-game log. Replaying games sounds nice but I do not expect it to start with such a feature.
-
Actually that's fine if we can also get those logs, than somebody can make a (web) reader of those logs, easy-peasy.
-
Actually that's fine if we can also get those logs, than somebody can make a (web) reader of those logs, easy-peasy.
I would even expect that they have one themselves. Not much point in making some sequence of zeros and ones public without a method to read them.
I read this announcement (or plan) as that the logs are ALSO machine readable, like some XML or JSON or whatever, in contrast to isotropic where you have to parse the text to get it into the database.
-
I would even expect that they have one themselves. Not much point in making some sequence of zeros and ones public without a method to read them.
I read this announcement (or plan) as that the logs are ALSO machine readable, like some XML or JSON or whatever, in contrast to isotropic where you have to parse the text to get it into the database.
No my best guess is it will be text. They considered trying to match the isotropic logs.
-
Why does "someone who can get stuff done cares about this issue" *increase* your amount of worry?
That Donald can get stuff done makes me feel a lot better. It was definitely NOT a given, and as far as I'm aware, he fits into that category of 'high-level players'. And just seems to have pretty good sense about the game and what's important. So, eh, it won't be perfect I'm sure. But still, I'm cautiously optimistic.
-
Is there a chat function?
-
I haven't said it increases my amount of worry. I learned about it a few minutes before I made my first post, then following your latest couple posts I guess the amount I worry has either stayed the same or decreased slightly.
Well, until this latest post, which I guess does increase the amount I worry. The only way of finding out what an opponent gains with Workshop being to follow the action at all times or risk missing it sounds like a really bad decision which I hope is reconsidered before launch. I'm glad you're reading this and other feedback and (obviously) care about the quality of the program though, so I'm definitely still hoping for the best.
I think what the game tries to do is to be as close as possible to real life play. And there you don't have logs, and you've got to pay attention to what your opponents do in real time.
Probably we all should try to get rid of the thought the official version will be anything like isotropic. It version will probably rather be something like the BSW thing, but with all (or most) of its disadvantages eliminated.
The difference with real-life play is that if you happened to have been turning around to look at something while your opponent grabbed a card with Workshop, you say "hey, what card did you just gain?" and he answers you. If he says something like "sorry, you should have been paying more attention" then it's unlikely he's the type of person you would be willing to play with in a real-life game. Not as sure about how tournaments and such work, but in general real-life Dominion is played in a friendly atmosphere among friends.
Online Dominion is different. Opponents may or may not ever talk to each other. We don't even know if there will be a way to talk to each other. And even if there is, an opponent might just not answer your question, or at the least be more likely to not tell you, because people on the internet aren't as friendly as people in real life in general, and you are just playing with a random stranger who you might not be thinking of as an actual person.
The overall point is that having a quick animation be the only way to see what a player did seems like a bad idea in general online. Perhaps a quick-fix could just be adding a "replay" button that replays all the animations from your opponent's last turn.
-
In that particular case you can just look at the top of his discards. ;D
-
In that particular case you can just look at the top of his discards. ;D
What if he Throne Room'd that Workshop? ;)
-
Yeah, count me as agreeing with both 'sides' of the conversation here. I really really think it's important to have a record of the last turn or two for online play. Because frankly, a lot of people take forever (myself included - I am a very slow player!) and it's simply not reasonable to expect someone to sit through an entire Scrying Pool turn just to figure out what they gained with their Workshop in the middle of it. So my impulse is to say that I don't like this policy.
That said, I am pretty sure the final product is going to be good. It will not be exactly what I want. But I don't expect any deviations from Isotropic to be simply random. If they make changes, they will have reasons for those changes. I'll probably like some and dislike others. Given the market it will be targeted at, it will certainly include features that I consider superfluous or annoying.
OTOH, given the level of commitment the people involved with Dominion have shown to interacting with us here, the extent to which they bend over backwards to engage with the big fans, I have a feeling that the concerns of this audience will be seriously considered and not merely tossed aside.
Threads like this, when they involve making constructive statements about what we would like to get out of the game, are fine. But pure speculation and complaints based on the anticipation of poor implementation, not so much. Especially when Donald says 'it'll be okay,' I am 100% willing to take his word for it until we actually get the product. At that point, if I don't like it, I will certainly be willing to say so. But for now, I'll be cautiously optimistic. And thanks again Donald for stopping by here so regularly to let us know what you can.
-
I think the developers have other things on their mind than adding logs. This app has the potential to be downloaded Xmillion times. We isotropic players probably make up less than 1% of the target audience.
I'm willing to bet that 1% is a significant underestimate. Consider that Ascension in iOS has seen 1MM games played in 9 months (http://playdekgames.com/news.php?news=news_05092012_playdek.php&title=1%20Million%20Games) (link goes to their press release). Isotropic sees that many games every two months or so. Now assume that Dominion (online) is ten times as popular as Ascension (online). A new Dominion app could expect a million games in a bit under a month--about twice as many plays as Iso gets.
Now I'll grant that RGG will be marketing their app, which Iso doesn't have, obviously. But I would be surprised if the new app gets more than 10x the play of Isotropic.
The more casual players will be happiest if they get to play their Village, have it slide into the play area, have a cool sound effect of a bunch of Villagers shouting, play their Smithy (with the sliding and the sound effect of a hammer hitting metal) and do it all over again.
I threw up in my mouth a little reading that.
OTOH, given the level of commitment the people involved with Dominion have shown to interacting with us here, the extent to which they bend over backwards to engage with the big fans, I have a feeling that the concerns of this audience will be seriously considered and not merely tossed aside.
I will say this is one thing that makes me optimistic. I hope it will result in a better program.
-
Speaking as someone who's been extremely pessimistic about this app during the great Period of Silence, I'm very optimistic now that I've seen the development screenshot and read what Donald has had to say about it. It makes me wonder even more why there was no flow of information for so long.
-
so BGG has beta codes for the website, any chance dominion strategy might score some?
-
so BGG has beta codes for the website, any chance dominion strategy might score some?
I suspect that the set of people here who end up in the beta will closely resemble the set of people here who want to be in the beta. And obv. that will be a good time to say, wtf, where is my free internet pizza.
I do not expect any kind of replay feature to make it out initially. You could take a screenshot when you tab away and then compare.
There is no in-game chat now, as previously reported, but it seems important to have, as previously noted.
-
You're making me hungry. I want a free IRL pizza...
-
so BGG has beta codes for the website, any chance dominion strategy might score some?
I suspect that the set of people here who end up in the beta will closely resemble the set of people here who want to be in the beta. And obv. that will be a good time to say, wtf, where is my free internet pizza.
Oh man, that just screams "server stress test." Which isn't a bad thing, it's definitely needed!
-
I guess I am not entirely sure what is going on, but I'll be damned if anyone assumed that I didn't want to be in the beta.
-
I guess I am not entirely sure what is going on, but I'll be damned if anyone assumed that I didn't want to be in the beta.
Donald is implying that {f.ds people who want in the beta} === {f.ds people in the beta}
-
I guess I am not entirely sure what is going on, but I'll be damned if anyone assumed that I didn't want to be in the beta.
Donald is implying that {f.ds people who want in the beta} === {f.ds people in the beta}
Roughly
-
I guess I am not entirely sure what is going on, but I'll be damned if anyone assumed that I didn't want to be in the beta.
Donald is implying that {f.ds people who want in the beta} === {f.ds people in the beta}
Roughly
FunSockets overlords, I would like to make it explicitly clear that I would like to be involved in the beta.
-
I guess I am not entirely sure what is going on, but I'll be damned if anyone assumed that I didn't want to be in the beta.
Donald is implying that {f.ds people who want in the beta} === {f.ds people in the beta}
Roughly
FunSockets overlords, I would like to make it explicitly clear that I would like to be involved in the beta.
I fully support this notion of yours, and share similar interests, but perhaps this should be forked into a different thread as to keep the focus of this thread on the content of the website. I get the feeling that this thread has the potential to explode with people expressing the same thing over and over again.
-
Maybe an email would work better? We don't know how closely they are following this board if at all.
-
I fully support this notion of yours, and share similar interests, but perhaps this should be forked into a different thread as to keep the focus of this thread on the content of the website. I get the feeling that this thread has the potential to explode with people expressing the same thing over and over again.
Yes, I was considering making such an unofficial 'signup' thread, but figured that I probably lacked the authority to do so.
-
Great that you take part here, Donald! :)
I would like to voice my strongest preference for the new game (which sounds to not have been implemented so far - correct me if I'm wrong!): ::)
I think it absolutely should have a card counter like the Chrome app for Isotropic which tells me everything I could know about the ongoing game as if I took perfect notes (meaning the exact composition of each deck with the exception of "Masquerade uncertainty" in multi player games).
I want to play quick games and spend the remaining "thinking time" on strategy. I don't want to play a game of Memory and suffer a disadvantage compared to the guy who types the points in his Excel spreadsheet.
If for some reason the game doesn't get the Chrome app functionality, at least include a simple point counter. Pleeease! :-[
I am not intending to be negative here by any means, I am just voicing my preferences for the new game which are very strong regarding this. I'll be really disappointed if the new game gets neither of these things and on top of that not even an in-game log or an in-game replay function.
One of the things I disliked most about playing on BSW (before I switched to Isotropic) is that it forced me to ceaselessly stare at the screen to for instance not miss if it was a Gold or a Province my opponent remodeled into a Province. (In BSW, one can't even see what's in the trash.)
I'd totally be willing to pay for Isotropic just the way it is - *because* there is that awesome Chrome app which tells me everything about the decks and because there are nice logs about what the opponents did on their turns. To be honest I'm not sure how much I'll be willing to pay for a game which has neither of these very nice features... I'll certainly consider it vastly inferior to Isotropic. And yes, I can tell that without having seen the new game in action. I just love the Chrome app and the "gaming concept" it stands for too much (no game of Memory, but of strategy and tactics).
-
I think the developers have other things on their mind than adding logs. This app has the potential to be downloaded Xmillion times. We isotropic players probably make up less than 1% of the target audience.
I'm willing to bet that 1% is a significant underestimate.
Decidedly seconded! Plus, of the percentage not playing on Isotropic so far many people would probably really like a log as well.
-
*Interested in the beta as well, for the record.
-
Question to those who know:
Is there an option to spectate a game?
Also interested in beta, of course!
-
Question to those who know:
Is there an option to spectate a game?
I think there's one planned. There was an eye you could click on in the version at Origins, but it didn't do anything.
-
I suspect that the set of people here who end up in the beta will closely resemble the set of people here who want to be in the beta. And obv. that will be a good time to say, wtf, where is my free internet pizza.
I would be interested. Why wouldn't I be?
-
I would even expect that they have one themselves. Not much point in making some sequence of zeros and ones public without a method to read them.
I read this announcement (or plan) as that the logs are ALSO machine readable, like some XML or JSON or whatever, in contrast to isotropic where you have to parse the text to get it into the database.
No my best guess is it will be text. They considered trying to match the isotropic logs.
I hope they exceed the isotropic logs. We need to be able to recreate the game state to have replays; we can't do that with isotropic logs.
-
I, for one, don't particularly care about logs. I am most interested in having a user interface that feels like playing the game in real life. It looks like it might be the best attempt yet.
-
Is it heresy to say I am not massively bothered by logs myself? Im probably not as hardcore as a lot of you, I Just hang about because I like you lot (well, some of you anyways....*grins*)
im probably the average player, I own most of the expansions in card format, then was looking at BGG and then found here. If I hadn't found here I wouldnt even have ever looked at a log or even know they existed. And I have probably played more RL games than I have on Isotropic (which isn't to knock Iso, its awesome)
Of course ill definately be getting the app as long as its not crazy prices, or subscriptions (man I HATE subscriptions), and if its not up to scratch then ill probably just go back to playing other games
-
I can't say I'm not sceptic, but it is reassuring that Donald X really cares this much!:)
Also. I'm interested in the beta.
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
*shout-out to the classic film "The Treasure Map of the Sierra Minion"
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
We will have logs, just not in the initial beta. There will be stats, there will be achievements.
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
We will have logs, just not in the initial beta. There will be stats, there will be achievements.
Man, remember when everyone was up in arms about how bad the app would be before we had any information on it. Cautious optimism, people.
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
We will have logs, just not in the initial beta. There will be stats, there will be achievements.
Man, remember when everyone was up in arms about how bad the app would be before we had any information on it. Cautious optimism, people.
Indeed. Personally, I have no trouble at all with "not in the first beta," because, man, have you ever been in a beta test? I have. It's not pretty.
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
We will have logs, just not in the initial beta. There will be stats, there will be achievements.
Man, remember when everyone was up in arms about how bad the app would be before we had any information on it. Cautious optimism, people.
Indeed. Personally, I have no trouble at all with "not in the first beta," because, man, have you ever been in a beta test? I have. It's not pretty.
I have. It was fun all around. ;D
-
I want to put in a vote for pro-logs. Especially after a particularly epic match... win or lose... I really enjoy being able to go back and review the game turn-by-turn, either in a "where-did-things-go-wrong" way, or just "ah, that was a really good game" way.
Will we have stats? Win/loss records? And more crucially... achievement badges?!?? I NEED those badges!! YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOSE STINKIN' BADGES!!*
We will have logs, just not in the initial beta. There will be stats, there will be achievements.
Man, remember when everyone was up in arms about how bad the app would be before we had any information on it. Cautious optimism, people.
Indeed. Personally, I have no trouble at all with "not in the first beta," because, man, have you ever been in a beta test? I have. It's not pretty.
I was in an alpha test for an online game once. That was really not pretty.