Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Articles => Topic started by: ehunt on May 05, 2012, 02:31:40 pm
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This article is inspired by an embarrassing game yesterday where I repeatedly failed to Jester good cards away from my opponent because I dumped them with a spy.
A large part of Dominion strategy involves mindless decision-making. You throne room a nobles - cards or actions? A moment's thought tells you that if you're ever going to draw the cards, you should draw them first. Same for minion. From now until the end of time, you will make the decision that way, and after a few thousand games, it stops feeling like a decision. This is augmented by playing on a computer instead of in real life. Learning to autopilot these decisions will free up lots of brain capacity to make more difficult decisions. Moreover, in these two extreme cases, the autopilot will essentially never hurt you.
Sometimes, however, it will. Here's a list of tactical decisions which, while generally true, should not be autopiloted (the reason to avoid autopilot is listed in parentheses after the decision). Please add to it! Note that this isn't a list of strategic decisions (e.g. when can you skip opening sea hag?), which should never be completely autopiloted.
One important thing to keep in mind: each new expansion changes the game dramatically. Decisions you autopilot today will cause significant AP after Guilds and the Dark Ages.
1. Pearl diver sees a junk card, doesn't move it; sees a good card, moves it. (Terminal draw, farming village)
2. Spy and scrying pool dump opponent's good cards. (Jester, swindler, saboteur.)
3. Late game, very close, you don't have 5, buy estate (island, tunnel, great hall)
3.5. Late game, very close, you don't have 8, buy duchy (fairgrounds, farmland a curse into something)
3.75 Late game, very close, you have 8, buy province (farmland , although numerous well-understood strategic considerations here means this shouldn't have been on autopilot anyway)
4. Throne room a throne room instead of a card that draws (mandatory trashers)
5. oracle sees opponent's silver, drops it (If you would leave copper copper, you should probably leave silver/estate).
6. discard the worst cards in your hand to an opponent's discard attack (mountebank, masquerade)
7. have two, might as well get a pearl diver/pawn/... (your terminal draw, opponent's discard attack)
8. play tactician, end turn (do you want to buy a copper? a curse?)
9. opponent plays torturer, curses are out, opt to take a curse (watchtower, menagerie)
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Another: have a Ghost Ship in hand, opponent plays a Ghost Ship, put back two treasures. (Then opponent plays Swindler/Pirate Ship/other deck attack.) This one is especially terrible because you must autopilot this in most Ghost Ship games or you will go insane.
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Play Jack. (If you have at least 6 cards in hand and no non-treasure you want to trash, the only effect is to gain a Silver. Did you really want that Silver?)
Have at least 2 actions, play Watchtower. (If you have 7 cards in hand, it will usually be better to leave it available for top-decking.)
Play villages before terminals. (Example reason not to do this: it's a Border Village, and you might draw a Remodel or Governor later in the turn.)
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pretty common one:
Opponent plays envoy: veto highest treasure card (opponent played +actions)
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Only have $4 to spend, buy something costing 4 or less, or nothing. (Did you play a Highway?)
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Play Jack. (If you have at least 6 cards in hand and no non-treasure you want to trash, the only effect is to gain a Silver. Did you really want that Silver?)
1) If it's a Jack Game, yes, you do want that silver.
2) Possible discard of top card in deck.
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Play Jack. (If you have at least 6 cards in hand and no non-treasure you want to trash, the only effect is to gain a Silver. Did you really want that Silver?)
1) If it's a Jack Game, yes, you do want that silver.
2) Possible discard of top card in deck.
Whoops, forgot about the spy effect. If it's a possession turn, you might not want the silver. :P (Or if you were using Jack to get buying power and light trashing to start an engine, and now want to keep your treasure count low.)
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Fell victim to this recently:
Always return Treasury on top. (Masquerade; Also you might want a reaction in head instead)
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Don't use extra buys with $0 left. (Cheap Peddler, Trader in hand, Watchtower in hand when wanting to run out Curse pile)
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How about:
Want a $5 card, have $6, so buy a border village and gain the $5 card (building a hunting party +x deck)
There may be other examples, but I've seen (and won) a few games where this was the only thing my opponent and I did differently in a mirror match.
Also: another reason not to autodiscard (#6) is opponent's tournaments
Ed
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Play Jack. (If you have at least 6 cards in hand and no non-treasure you want to trash, the only effect is to gain a Silver. Did you really want that Silver?)
1) If it's a Jack Game, yes, you do want that silver.
2) Possible discard of top card in deck.
Whoops, forgot about the spy effect. If it's a possession turn, you might not want the silver. :P (Or if you were using Jack to get buying power and light trashing to start an engine, and now want to keep your treasure count low.)
I rarely use Jack to set up an engine and I'm not sure how common that is..
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Play Jack. (If you have at least 6 cards in hand and no non-treasure you want to trash, the only effect is to gain a Silver. Did you really want that Silver?)
1) If it's a Jack Game, yes, you do want that silver.
2) Possible discard of top card in deck.
Whoops, forgot about the spy effect. If it's a possession turn, you might not want the silver. :P (Or if you were using Jack to get buying power and light trashing to start an engine, and now want to keep your treasure count low.)
I rarely use Jack to set up an engine and I'm not sure how common that is..
It's definitely not common, which is why it's a reasonable auto-play rule to always play Jack...
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A general note - a lot of times if you get a card added to your strategy involuntarily (mostly swindler, but also ambassador and masq) then a lot of quick autoplays can be quite bad. Remember while you should try to make lemonade with your swindled cards, you may need to play them quite differently.
Don't have your actions miss a reshuffle just to play a small draw (e.g. lab, moat) and leave you with a dead hand of green/coin (reliable opponent minion's can be helpful, top decking of mega cards like golem or combos likes KC/Lab can completely offset the downside and let you have more hand to play).
Always take the most valuable treasure with thief/noble brigand (fairgrounds, harvest, etc. decks can make it far more valuable to poach their only silver, govs can turn silvers into safe fairgrounds whilst golds can only become game losing provinces when last province is out).
Always trader a curse into a silver (timing the game end to your advantage, farming village/apothecary/big actions can deal better with curses than silver).
Always discard your least useful cards when hit with hand reducers like militia (masquerade).
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6. discard the worst cards in your hand to an opponent's discard attack (mountebank, masquerade)
I've also automatically discarded an Estate I needed for my Baron.
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Always take the most valuable treasure with thief/noble brigand (fairgrounds, harvest, etc. decks can make it far more valuable to poach their only silver, govs can turn silvers into safe fairgrounds whilst golds can only become game losing provinces when last province is out).
Governor can't turn Silvers into Fairgrounds. I'd also be very surprised if not taking Gold was ever the right move in practice, especially if Governor is around.
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A general mistake a lot of beginners make:
Grabbing the most expensive card you can get, instead of the one that you need.
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A general mistake a lot of beginners make:
Grabbing the most expensive card you can get, instead of the one that you need.
...Even if it's a valid part of your engine! I've erred many times using a $4 turn on a Bridge when I really need more Native Villages, or on a Conspirator when I don't have enough Warehouses yet, or whatever.
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I find that autopilot hurts me most in peddler games. I play four or so actions (including plus buys), buy an expensive card, and end my turn not wanting to buy coppers or estates... whoops!
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I actually don't autopilot many things. Maybe it's because I'm a slow player/thinker. Blessing or curse?
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A general mistake a lot of beginners make:
Grabbing the most expensive card you can get, instead of the one that you need.
Yeah, I often fall victim to this. "Oh, I can get that later." There are not that many turns available!
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A general mistake a lot of beginners make:
Grabbing the most expensive card you can get, instead of the one that you need.
Yeah, I often fall victim to this. "Oh, I can get that later." There are not that many turns available!
Yeah, but I really hate it when I draw $6 and decide I had really better get the strong $5 that is on the board because I know I need it, only to draw $5 the very next hand and wish I had gotten the gold when I had the chance. (Fortunately buying another power $5 is usually a pretty good idea too.)
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Always take the most valuable treasure with thief/noble brigand (fairgrounds, harvest, etc. decks can make it far more valuable to poach their only silver, govs can turn silvers into safe fairgrounds whilst golds can only become game losing provinces when last province is out).
Governor can't turn Silvers into Fairgrounds. I'd also be very surprised if not taking Gold was ever the right move in practice, especially if Governor is around.
Sorry, that should be governor it into a safe duchy. For instance, let's say you hit a mega governor turn and are down by 10 points with one province left (no +buy). There are two ways to win: "remodel" two silvers into duchies and buy a province or remodel a silver to a duchy, remodel a gold to a province, and buy a duchy; if you have no silver (due to already upgrading them) then stealing & drawing the silver is a low odds move, but may win when other moves won't. For the final turn in a governor game, silvers can be worth much more to you than golds; once the provinces run out silver is better (unless there are +buys). Certainly stealing unique treasures, even if it is just silver, is better in fairgrounds games (depriving the opponent of up to 10 or more points beats slightly better odds of wealthier hands) forcing your opponent to either down-buy (maybe missing a fairground) or lose points for each fairground.
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Yes, there's an edge case, but, unlike failing to buy Peddlers, it's not a problem I've ever had! :P
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I find that autopilot hurts me most in peddler games. I play four or so actions (including plus buys), buy an expensive card, and end my turn not wanting to buy coppers or estates... whoops!
I just did this twice in one game. It is so easy to forget that Peddler is available at $0 with an extra buy.
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I just did this twice in one game. It is so easy to forget that Peddler is available at $0 with an extra buy.
caravan, peddler, market, ew, two estates, two coppers, and a tactician, should I play the tactician? there's six provinces left, um, do i need another caravan, not really, ugh, um, i'm taking too long, i'm sorry, i'm sorry, yeah, play the tactician, end turn. NO!!!!!!
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Quite strangely this is mistake that I never do in a real life game. Every time I see Peddler on the board, I am acutely aware of its presence and all of the ways to get one. Must be something in playing with the physical cards.
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Probably the hardest thing for me to do is "overpay" for cards. Say I want to go Fool's Gold. I remember the first time I opened a 4/3 with FG/FG. It was so hard not to take one of the $3 or $4 cards, but I had to force myself to do that for any sub-$5 hand. Obviously the strategy will vary depending on which cards are available in the kingdom, but there are plenty of situations where buying the cheaper card is better but I still have a hard time forcing myself to do it.
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That's not an autopilot thing though, it's just a human thing.
A big thing I have a problem with is buying a gold with 6 or 7$ instead of a 5$ drawing action I need for my BM deck. I tell myself I'll draw 5$ sometime later before the reshuffle.
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Yes, there's an edge case, but, unlike failing to buy Peddlers, it's not a problem I've ever had! :P
The bigger one has always been tracking the opponent's unique cards in fairgrounds games. Many setups that work well with fairgrounds - like remake, menage, or upgrade - can get down to a single silver making stealing it much nastier than stealing a gold. Also, buying a thief or noble brigand to juice up fairgrounds is one of the few times it is worth it to buy either in a low treasure game. Swindler also has this happen - it can be far more valuable to swindle duchy -> duchy and keep fairgrounds worth 2 or 4 vp rather than swindle a late game duchy into a unique (albeit useless 5) that would otherwise cost a fairgrounds. I've even optionally swindled a curse -> copper to win the game once.
Other times to consider this are with taking a late harem over a plat or bank, taking a late game silver over a quarry/talisman, and other kingdom treasure issues (thief only).
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Quite strangely this is mistake that I never do in a real life game. Every time I see Peddler on the board, I am acutely aware of its presence and all of the ways to get one. Must be something in playing with the physical cards.
Same here, except with Jack and Possession instead of Peddler.
That's not an autopilot thing though, it's just a human thing.
A big thing I have a problem with is buying a gold with 6 or 7$ instead of a 5$ drawing action I need for my BM deck. I tell myself I'll draw 5$ sometime later before the reshuffle.
I'm the exact opposite.
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autoplay all my peddlers, oops, there's my salvager...
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Discard a curse to Mountebank. (Curses are all gone, it's near the end of the game, and you have a Cellar or Warehouse in hand.)
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>Doublejack is a must buy.
>Chapel is a must-buy.
>Mountebank is a must-buy.
>Sea hag is a must-buy.
>etc...
The reason I hit a wall at rank 30 (I'm currently at 37) was that I believed that there were rules about which cards were good when, and it all came down to counting terminals. Absolutely everything you know about whether a card is good or bad is wrong in some situation. Remember ALWAYS to think about cards as their effects on your hand, your deck, your opponent, and your score.
>If I had terribly bad luck at turn 3 or turn 4, I've lost.
Sometimes games suck and deserve ragequits, but if you have less than 9 curses, aren't getting ghost-shipped every turn, or multi-possessed without the ability to self-sabotage properly, there's a good possibility you have some chance. If it's a one-time occurrence, luck can even out over the turns.
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/25/game-20120525-082815-8c2968b9.html
Sometimes you don't want to discard the estate for +4 money, particularly, when you are trying to run out estates.
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Keeping Tournament + Province after a discard attack, even when all the Prizes are gone and you don't want Duchies. Came up yesterday.
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Or even auto-revealing a Province and then thinking "wait; I don't even want a Prize on my deck which destroys my draw chain this turn".
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
I'm not sure I get this.
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
I'm not sure I get this.
If you do not reveal a Province when he plays a Tournament, he will draw the Estate on his deck. Once that Estate is gone, your Rabble will be able to discard much more actions and treasures.
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
I'm not sure I get this.
If you do not reveal a Province when he plays a Tournament, he will draw the Estate on his deck. Once that Estate is gone, your Rabble will be able to discard much more actions and treasures.
I suppose if you also know there is a Goons 3 cards below the Estate, then you'd want to get rid of that. But generally I would think that the 4 card hand + no money from Tournament is better
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
I'm not sure I get this.
If you do not reveal a Province when he plays a Tournament, he will draw the Estate on his deck. Once that Estate is gone, your Rabble will be able to discard much more actions and treasures.
I suppose if you also know there is a Goons 3 cards below the Estate, then you'd want to get rid of that. But generally I would think that the 4 card hand + no money from Tournament is better
He'd draw that Goons at the end of his turn anyway... while not revealing can have an effect, I think it's far enough down his deck that there's almost no way you're going to be able to predict it. Your Rabble is going to hit cards 5 down from the top his deck (since he has to draw a hand after clean up) and I can't think of any Spy attack that goes that deep. You can keep track of what he's played and such, but that's still a lot of guesswork.
Agreed on the second point. Why let him clear the Estate from the top of his deck? Eh, maybe if you knew he had a Baron in hand or something. :P
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Or revealing a Province when he plays a Tournament when you know the top card of his deck is an Estate and you want him to draw it so your KC-Rabble will hit more cards.
I'm not sure I get this.
If you do not reveal a Province when he plays a Tournament, he will draw the Estate on his deck. Once that Estate is gone, your Rabble will be able to discard much more actions and treasures.
I suppose if you also know there is a Goons 3 cards below the Estate, then you'd want to get rid of that. But generally I would think that the 4 card hand + no money from Tournament is better
He'd draw that Goons at the end of his turn anyway... while not revealing can have an effect, I think it's far enough down his deck that there's almost no way you're going to be able to predict it. Your Rabble is going to hit cards 5 down from the top his deck (since he has to draw a hand after clean up) and I can't think of any Spy attack that goes that deep. You can keep track of what he's played and such, but that's still a lot of guesswork.
Agreed on the second point. Why let him clear the Estate from the top of his deck? Eh, maybe if you knew he had a Baron in hand or something. :P
Perhaps it is time to move this thread from Articles to the Puzzles subforum, because we're certainly outside of the realm of practicable advice..