Lure - Event - $3
+1 Buy
Gain a Gold and a Curse.
This looks too good compared to Explorer and Pirate. Pirate is only better as it can gain $5 Treasures but that does not compensate for the immediate hand-gaining.
This looks too good compared to Explorer and Pirate. Pirate is only better as it can gain $5 Treasures but that does not compensate for the immediate hand-gaining.
Explorer's removed so I don't see a reason to care about that. Pirate's Reaction allows it to be non-terminal... not all the time, but a good amount of the time, where this will just never be.
Judge to be clear we are to make a card(s) that uses 2 or more named base cards or exactly 2 named base cards?
Names 3 Base cards
Bandit Fort
Names 3 Base cardsI'm not sure how you counted 3 base cards for Bandit Fort?
Bandit Fort
Yeah, it's intentionally not conditional so that once the curses are gone Golds cost $3 for everyone. I think that's more interactive and fun.I like this but wonder whether this is intentionally not conditional like Desperation.QuoteLure - Event - $3
+1 Buy
Gain a Gold and a Curse.
Ledger
$5
Action
+1 Action
Reveal your hand, +$1 per revealed Copper, +1 Card per revealed Estate.
Gain a Copper and an Estate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7N3LCfm/Tyranny-V1.png)
This looks too good compared to Explorer and Pirate. Pirate is only better as it can gain $5 Treasures but that does not compensate for the immediate hand-gaining.
Explorer's removed so I don't see a reason to care about that. Pirate's Reaction allows it to be non-terminal... not all the time, but a good amount of the time, where this will just never be.
If both Curse and Estate piles are empty or either pile is empty, do players still get the +3VP?
Here's my submission:Never ever a $3, otherwise you will double open without even thinking.
Crone
Action-Attack-Reaction
$3
+2 Cards
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand gains a Curse.
-
When another player plays an attack, you may first reveal this to discard a Copper or a Curse.
Looks even too strong at $4. Sure, Young Witch is weakish but it makes the attacker discards two whereas here the defender needs to discard one.
(https://i.imgur.com/ePsuZHK.png)
A Nocturne-inspired card. Based on Werewolf, but I tried to capture the "weakness to Silver" feeling that a Werewolf normally has. Maybe a bit too wordy.
I think the early Silver for opponents, plus the fact that it's conditional make it balanced, although it being non-terminal for $4 might be a bit too much. Let me know what you all think.
Old CitySimple Lost City variant that junks the buyer rather than helping all other players. Assuming you draw your new junk with this card (which likely isn't the case), you have a choice between a village or a festival without the buy.
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
When you gain this, gain an Estate or 2 Copper.
(https://i.imgur.com/ePsuZHK.png)
A Nocturne-inspired card. Based on Werewolf, but I tried to capture the "weakness to Silver" feeling that a Werewolf normally has. Maybe a bit too wordy.
I think the early Silver for opponents, plus the fact that it's conditional make it balanced, although it being non-terminal for $4 might be a bit too much. Let me know what you all think.
This does need the Attack type. Otherwise nice concept.
Coin Press $4
Action
You may gain a Silver to your hand. If you didn't, trash 2 Treasures from your hand (or reveal you can't). If both are Silver, gain a Gold to your hand. If both aren't Silver, gain a Silver.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285397935_b4d5e2b362_b.jpg)QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
Choose one: Gain a Silver to your hand; or trash 2 Treasures from your hand to gain a Silver; or trash 2 Silvers from your hand to gain a Gold to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285397935_b4d5e2b362_b.jpg)QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
Choose one: Gain a Silver to your hand; or trash 2 Treasures from your hand to gain a Silver; or trash 2 Silvers from your hand to gain a Gold to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
As worded, this has accountability issues. I'd have a good reason to trash a Copper from my hand with no other Treasures in hand, which this allows you to do but lacks accountability for.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285397935_b4d5e2b362_b.jpg)QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
Choose one: Gain a Silver to your hand; or trash 2 Treasures from your hand to gain a Silver; or trash 2 Silvers from your hand to gain a Gold to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
Coin Press $4
Action
Choose one: Trash 2 Coppers from your hand to gain a Silver to your hand; or trash 2 Silvers from your hand to gain a Gold to your hand.
Here's my submission:Never ever a $3, otherwise you will double open without even thinking.
Crone
Action-Attack-Reaction
$3
+2 Cards
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand gains a Curse.
-
When another player plays an attack, you may first reveal this to discard a Copper or a Curse.
Looks even too strong at $4. Sure, Young Witch is weakish but it makes the attacker discards two whereas here the defender needs to discard one.
With it reacting to itself, I thought if both players open with it then you're not as likely to receive a curse at the beginning of the game and you'll draw into probably money at first too. I was on the fence on it being 3 or 4 cost though,
Sprite • $4 • Action - Attack - Duration
Each other player may discard a Silver from their hand, revealed; if they do not, they gain a Copper to their hand.
At the start of your next turn, you may trash a Treasure from your hand to gain a Gold.
Copper Mine
Action - Duration - Attack
$3
$1
At the start of your next turn +2 Cards. Until then when any other player plays a Silver or Gold, they gain a Copper.
My thoughts and reasons behind the card.
- Before thinking about the card I had been talking about a video game arcade I used to go to when growing up. That was called The Copper Mine, so decided that is what I wanted to call the card.
- Obviously such a card has to give out Coppers, but ways that are beneficial to the player are tricky. I then thought it could be an attack that gave out Coppers.
- To make it thematic I felt it had to interact with the other treasures. I had the idea of the effect happening when you play a Silver or Gold. Something different, that could impact strategy by being in the kingdom regardless of whether it is bought or not.
- The card is now a duration attack in the same family as Haunted Woods or Swamp Hag. The next question is what benefits will it give the player. o mix it up I decided to split the benefits between the current and next turns and to split them between draw and money. I also thought it would be thematic if the card gave $1 on the current turn when played.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285782858_9571a0e75d_b.jpg)[QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
You may trash 2 Treasures from your hand. If both are Silver, gain a Gold to your hand. If no more than one is Silver, gain a Silver.
If you didn't trash anything, gain a Silver to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
Edit: Adjusted wording. Should be functionally the same. You cannot only trash 1 Treasure from your hand.
(https://trello.com/1/cards/62f98f341884d68811e16613/attachments/62f98f3b9227eb8ae48e8912/previews/62f98f3d9227eb8ae48e8952/download/image.png)QuoteSprite • $4 • Action - Attack - Duration
Each other player may discard a Silver from their hand, revealed; if they do not, they gain a Copper to their hand.
At the start of your next turn, you may trash a Treasure from your hand to gain a Gold.
(https://i.imgur.com/ujOJLSa.png)
Crook is an Attack card that offers the player a choice of thinning two cards or gaining a Silver to hand, while turning a card in each other player's hand into a Copper. Early on, the attack won't hurt much and may actually help if they trash Estates or Curses, but it will get more painful as the game goes on and players trash their starting cards. Since the Coppers gained to hand can be repeatedly trashed, the attack usually won't stack more than once. Especially brutal if you can hit opponents with a discard attack beforehand.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285782858_9571a0e75d_b.jpg)[QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
You may trash 2 Treasures from your hand. If both are Silver, gain a Gold to your hand. If no more than one is Silver, gain a Silver.
If you didn't trash anything, gain a Silver to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
Edit: Adjusted wording. Should be functionally the same. You cannot only trash 1 Treasure from your hand.
You can if you only have 1 Treasure in hand. Like how you can choose to discard 2 cards with Mill even if you only have 1 card to discard (you wouldn't get the +$2). This still has the same accountability issue as before, for the same reason as before.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52285782858_9571a0e75d_b.jpg)[QuoteCoin Press $4
Action
You may trash 2 Treasures from your hand. If both are Silver, gain a Gold to your hand. If no more than one is Silver, gain a Silver.
If you didn't trash anything, gain a Silver to your hand.
A Silver gainer that either nets $2 that turn or trashes 2 copper from hand. It can also trash 2 Silver later on to gain a Gold to hand. I want this to cost $4, but I am not sure if it should or not. Feedback is appreciated.
Edit: Adjusted wording. Should be functionally the same. You cannot only trash 1 Treasure from your hand.
You can if you only have 1 Treasure in hand. Like how you can choose to discard 2 cards with Mill even if you only have 1 card to discard (you wouldn't get the +$2). This still has the same accountability issue as before, for the same reason as before.
I was under the impression that if is says "you may", then you either do all of what it says or you don't. It says to trash 2 treasures from your hand, not up to 2. I understand how opting to discard 2 cards does not care how many cards you have in hand, but I was under the impression you would either trash two treasures or fail to do so.
I will try and change this again to avoid this ambiguity. Thanks for the feedback.
Beachcombers - Ally
At the start of your Buy phase, spend up to 3 Favors.
Per Favor spent, gain a Copper or an Estate to your hand.
This is good in a Gardens game. This can be good in a Shepherd game. This would potentially be OKish in a Silk Road game if Silk Road were any good.
I don’t see any other situation in which this is any good.
This is good in a Gardens game. This can be good in a Shepherd game. This would potentially be OKish in a Silk Road game if Silk Road were any good.It's good on any last turn of the game because it gives you 8 VP and +$8 and an empty pile for just 8 Favors.
I don’t see any other situation in which this is any good.
This is good in a Gardens game. This can be good in a Shepherd game. This would potentially be OKish in a Silk Road game if Silk Road were any good.It's good on any last turn of the game because it gives you 8 VP and +$8 and an empty pile for just 8 Favors.
I don’t see any other situation in which this is any good.
In fact, that is so good that I think it's broken.
QuoteSprite • $4 • Action - Attack - Duration
Each other player may discard a Silver from their hand, revealed; if they do not, they gain a Copper to their hand.
At the start of your next turn, you may trash a Treasure from your hand to gain a Gold.
This doesn't need the "revealed," that's only necessary when multiple cards can be discarded at once. Discarding a single card is public information, otherwise e.g. Cutpurse would need to say "revealed."
Why (for me) it's busted is that all you have to do is play Guildmaster in order to be able to pile out both Coppers and Estates into your hand. (Each time you use a Favor to gain a card, Guildmaster gives you another Favor). Now we're talking 2 empty piles, +8VP, and +$46 (less in multiplayer games). There are a lot of scenarios where that's a guaranteed win, from playing a single card.
You can fix the Guildmaster problem by changing the wording to something like, "At the start of your Buy phase, spend any number of Favors. For each Favor spent, gain to your hand a Copper or an Estate." To the extent it's still busted for the reasons faust said, this doesn't help.
(https://i.imgur.com/IzjJbpIh.png) | Quote Amphitheater • $5 • Action |
My Submission:
(https://i.imgur.com/IzjJbpIh.png) QuoteAmphitheater • $5 • Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card. If it was an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +1 Buy
Curse, discard a card
Gold, +$1
My submission is Amphitheater a drawer/sifter that is conditionally non-terminal, and which both makes you consider whether you want to sift what you normally would (e.g. Victory cards) and somewhat lessens the sting when you can't (e.g. when you only have Treasures and Action cards). I've played with this concept before (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21201.msg891202#msg891202), with just the first two conditional effects (and, last time I submitted it, a fan mechanic effect). Adding the two additional effects for the base cards makes it a little more interesting. Getting $1 back from Gold makes discarding it no worse than discarding a Silver (and fits with the lessening the sting theme). Making you discard another card for discarding a Curse (effectively not letting a Curse be the card you sift) fits with the sift-something-different theme.1
One of the things I like about this is how its conditionally non-terminal. The reason Laboratory is so much better than Moat (and, therefore, costs way more despite Moat's useful Reaction) is that you can play the Action cards you draw after playing a Lab, but not (without a village) the ones you draw after playing a Moat. But, on any given play of one card or the other, the distinction only matters if you have Action cards in your hand afterwards. If you end up with no Action cards, Lab is no better than Moat. With Amphitheater, in order for it to be meaningfully non-terminal, you need to have at least 2 Action cards in your hand after you draw (you also need to give up the use of one of them unless it has an on-discard Reaction).
FAQ:
If you discard a Gold, you get both the +1 Buy (for discarding a Treasure card) and the +$1.
If you discard a Curse, the second card you discard does not give you any of the bonus effects. So, if you discard a Curse, then discard a Copper, you don't get +1 Buy.
1 There is at least one circumstance where this could be a benefit. If your opponent played a Haunted Woods and you've drawn both a Curse and a Victory card, you can discard the Curse to also rid yourself of the Victory card (and not have it go back on your deck when you buy a card during your Buy phase).
Moray
(https://i.imgur.com/rObKajU.png)
Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory
Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.
Moray
(https://i.imgur.com/rObKajU.png)
Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory
Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.
I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.
Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...
Moray
(https://i.imgur.com/rObKajU.png)
Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory
Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.
I'm not sure if you're allowed to use a non-Heirloom card as an Heirloom. At the very least, it's inconsistent with the rest of the Heirloom cards. Although I understand why it's done for this contest.
I do think it's a little weak for $7 and could probably cost $5 or $6. In almost all games this is going to feel under-powered. Compare with Feodum which counts (3) Silvers, and consider the fact that you count (2) Coppers instead, which are much weaker than Silver. In games with Beggar or something similar, this is going to be busted no matter what you cost it at, so I'd focus more on giving this a reasonable cost for the vast majority of games where there is no good combo with Copper gainers.
I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.
Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...
Stuff like "Baker" or "Cursed Gold" already changes the opening like this does, and neither of them have broken the game...
Moray
(https://i.imgur.com/rObKajU.png)
Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory
Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.
I'm not sure if you're allowed to use a non-Heirloom card as an Heirloom. At the very least, it's inconsistent with the rest of the Heirloom cards. Although I understand why it's done for this contest.
I do think it's a little weak for $7 and could probably cost $5 or $6. In almost all games this is going to feel under-powered. Compare with Feodum which counts (3) Silvers, and consider the fact that you count (2) Coppers instead, which are much weaker than Silver. In games with Beggar or something similar, this is going to be busted no matter what you cost it at, so I'd focus more on giving this a reasonable cost for the vast majority of games where there is no good combo with Copper gainers.
I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.
Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...
Stuff like "Baker" or "Cursed Gold" already changes the opening like this does, and neither of them have broken the game...
The difference with Baker/Cursed Gold over a Silver is that they both allow you to guarantee a $5 hand on one of your opening turns (and even then Cursed Gold is still kind of annoying). But with a Silver one player could gain a big starting lead by lining up the Silver with enough Coppers and having their opponent miss the same opportunity due to pure chance. This does happen normally with 5/2 vs 4/3 but 5/3 vs 4/4 is worse in that regard.
My Submission:
(https://i.imgur.com/IzjJbpIh.png) QuoteAmphitheater • $5 • Action
+3 Cards
Discard a card. If it was an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +1 Buy
Curse, discard a card
Gold, +$1
Since the discarding is mandatory, this honestly looks weaker than vanilla Smithy imo.
I don’t think that it is weaker, ActionStables alone is probably a weakish $4 and this has more options. But it is definitely no $5 and I think it needs a Victory card option instead of the Gold option which really does nothing (if you got a Silver, you discard the Silver or Copper anyway; it only matters in the rare situation of only Golds).
This is a $4 and far from $5 strength.
It is mainly useful as mandatory ActionStables which is a weak $4. That it draws before discarding is nice for consistency but you are still discarding the good stuff.
The other options are weaker than Smithy. A Smithy that converts the Coin of a Copper into an extra Buy? Well, can be useful. Discarding Curses hurts, discarding green is no option (although it should be if you want this to become a $5) and discarding Gold is only useful in very rare cases.
The option to not use this as ActionStables but as Smithy- (net drawing 1 and getting an extra Buy is weaker than Smithy) don’t push this into $5 territory.
I’d try this with the option to discard green for a Horse or an extra card and I‘d get rid of the Curse and Gold options to give this Iron-family clarity and symmetry. Then it would be a $5 (albeit likely still weaker than Lab and other $5 Lab variants).
Moray
(https://i.imgur.com/rObKajU.png)
Worth 1 VP per 2 coppers
Heirloom: Silver
$7 Victory
Like Feodum and Counting house, this card will alternate between a powerhouse, and useless. But unlike those cards this Moray will always had a large impact on the start of each game by replacing one of the starting coppers with a silver.
I fear this will only be a powerhouse with Beggar (and possibly Banquet), and be useless at least 95% of the time.
In the absence of Beggar, I'd try this at $4, so it would at least be a cheaper Duchy (with the potential to get extra VPs from late-game copper buys) in games where you can't trash coppers. You already need to buy three Morays to get the same 15 VP with 10 coppers that Fountain gives you for free.
Replacing a starting Copper by Silver is problematic because a 5/3 opening is usually much stronger than a 4/4 opening. And Moray would be stronger without an Heirloom attached...
Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.
Feedback is appreciated.
(https://i.imgur.com/HRmTiUi.png) | Quote SerenityJust to be clear the player must trash all 3 cards to get the +20%. This card is a fun quest for players to accomplish. Like Colonies and the Events Alliance and Dominate or any powerful Green card pile, this new card should reward players to go big and make a strong engine decks that can draw through Green cards and double their score. I really enjoy this idea as many slow engine decks get running then find their is not enough Green card left in the supply to catch up and this presents a method to help catch up. But does not stale out the game as player still need to collect this Green cards from the supply pushing the game toward an end state, except when they card pull from the trash but that feels a bit narrow. |
(https://i.imgur.com/3EHCv81.png) | Quote PrestigeI tried to make a card that mentions the 6 common base cards and this card does a lot because of that. Frist, it is a treasure as it is not strong enough to be a terminal Action and being a Treasure saves space no having the +1 Action. Second, it gives a Coffers due +$1 how felt weak it that effect is and to reduce text size which saves spaces for the important bits. Third, the +1 Buy opens the door for multiple purchases of Green cards doubling this cards effectiveness. Fourth, the Estate bonus is mostly to get players decks started. Fifth the Duchy line requires the use of a Fan machinic with is linked below but should help Midrange Big money decks keep the money flowing but also Junking themselves up with low powered cards. Last the effect to Exile Provinces helps players Green earlier without much punishment other then playing this card with is a stop card and only generates +$1 money. Also an easy reminder for Queue rules http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20894.msg875641#msg875641 |
(https://i.imgur.com/VxepelK.png) | Quote Capital SpendingThis card does a few things, first the the majority of the card Camel is the early gain effect, as buying Camel or this new card rewards rushing multiple Golds. Second this card helps midrange Big money decks clean out Duchies and set up for a Province. Third if player Buys this a few times early for the Exiled Golds they can get $5 money to snag an early Duchy to help get to Gold instead of just hoping to get to $6 which a Camel start can make much harder. |
(https://i.imgur.com/Ek3Nb0C.png) | Quote Lofty PursuitsThis card is like turning the 1st Duchy into a Harem like card. |
(https://i.imgur.com/JgB3DxU.png) | Quote RecoverThis card does a lot and was the best card I could make that uses all 9 Base cards (except Potion). It is quite a long test box but feels like the effect is easy to understand and shouldn't need to much rereading. |
(https://i.imgur.com/cjbh1Tv.png) | Quote ReductionThis card slowly cleans out the player's decks of start cards or other junk and gives some small rewards much like the action card Sacrifice. |
Quote ?This card reward players who hit $10 with the % of a Province and helps set up the next turn but the Double Duchies might start to hurt. Sorry no image this idea was scrapped before I made a mock up. | |
(https://i.imgur.com/mPkmiLA.png) | Quote TrawlingFAQ: This card can draw at most 1 Copper, 1 Silver, 1 Gold, and 1 other Treasure (such as a Potion or a Spices) but this last Treasure card cannot be a Copper, a Silver, or a Gold. This card has the potential to draw a lot of money but is terminal and requires players to fill there deck with targets and get lucky. |
(https://i.imgur.com/1jHH1V2.png) | Quote WellspringThis card has replacement mode because as with Counting House, it sucks far too much to draw this right after the shuffle. This card has a very high ceiling to generate lots of money but may take a while to get working as the players must acquire the Treasures and a large enough deck for them to be in the discard pile reliably. |
(https://i.imgur.com/u16dzIa.png) | Quote DIThis card was based on emtzalex's Amphitheater, which I liked but disliked the punishment for Discarding Curses. Also only mentioning Curse and Gold by name felt wrong and mostly tacked on it felt better to me to doubled down on references and pair them up to save space. |
Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.
Feedback is appreciated.
Fixed, thank you.Writer
Action - Cost:4
Trash any number of cards from your hand, then gain then half that many silvers.
Feedback is appreciated.
As noted by another user above, this does not have two base cards in it, so would not qualify.
think this needs to be able to gain $5s. Workshopping while greening is not very impressive
I think it’s probably rarely (if ever) worth getting without trashing, but with trashing it becomes an interesting choice whether to take Lure or Silver.
This is too automatic in the opening. See the entry about Hovel in the Secret History of Dark Ages.
I don't see the part you mean of the secret histories. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel)
I don't see the part you mean of the secret histories. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel)
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Shelters#Secret_History (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Shelters#Secret_History)
I don't see the part you mean of the secret histories. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hovel)
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Shelters#Secret_History (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Shelters#Secret_History)
Yeah, I read that. I'm asking what part he means. It doesn't seem related at all.
What they are referring to is how Lure allows people to trash their Estates/Shelters in the first two turns and that, according to the testing noted in that Secret History, this is too good to pass up. This would make the early game too automatic as the optimal play is to use Lure to trash yourself into a deck of all Copper straight away.
You can "disagree" (translate: ignore) with the playtesting experiences of the designer. But it is highly unlikely that this leads to good cards. Especially when it is about elementary stuff like feasibility of trashing in the opening.