Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Swowl on August 08, 2022, 12:10:17 am
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M139: Godfather Mafia
This will be a an open Mafia Game for 10 players based on the drunken ramblings of Galz and Swowl.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.
MODs: Galzria, Swowl
Sign Up List:
1. Joth
2. WCD
3. MiX
4. Mathdude
5. EFHW
6. Joseph
7. gkrieg
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus
10. scolapasta
Tags:
Game Tracker:
The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote No Exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
The Rest:
1. Bold, Brown text are reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.
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Open Set Up.
10 Player Game.
2 Skum v 8 Town.
Mafia Conditional Strongman
You are the Mafia Conditional Strong Man. You have the following abilities:
1. Night Action - Each night you may select a target. If that target is the Traitor you will recruit them. If that target is not the Traitor, they will die.
2. Conditional Action - You are a Strongman as long as the Traitor is not recruited. If you die with out a recruited team mate, the game is over an Town wins.
3. You are aware that Player X is the Traitor. They are not aware of you. You share the same win con.
4. If you Recruit the Traitor at any point, a night chat will be opened between the two of you starting the night after the action is registered.
Win Condition - You win when mafia controls at least 50% of the town's population or there is nothing that can prevent this from happening.
Mafia Traitor[/b]
You are the Mafia Traitor.
There is one player you share a win con with in this game that knows who you are. If they choose to recruit you, a night chat will be opened for the 2 of you the following night for the rest of the game, or until one of you is eliminated.
Win Condition - You win when mafia controls at least 50% of the town's population or there is nothing that can prevent this from happening.
Town Jail Keeper
You are the Town Jail Keeper. You have the following Night Actions:
1. Once per night, you may select a player. Any actions that player takes will be prevented, and any actions targeting that player will be prevented.
Win Condition - Youi win when all threats to Town are dead or there is nothing that can prevent that from happening.
Vanilla Town
You are Vanilla Townie. Your power is your vote.
Win Condition - Youi win when all threats to Town are dead or there is nothing that can prevent that from happening.
Notes:
1. Mafia loses if the Conditional Strongman dies prior to recruiting a team mate.
2. Mafia loses Storngman if they recruit.
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/tag
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/in
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I’m /in Chile until the end of the week, but I can’t image that would interfere with anything.
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/in
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If a jailkeeper targets a strongman, does the strongman kill go through? Because usually a strongman can break 1 level of protection, but if the strongman is the only other action in the game, what would the jailkeeper be preventing from happening?
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If a jailkeeper targets a strongman, does the strongman kill go through? Because usually a strongman can break 1 level of protection, but if the strongman is the only other action in the game, what would the jailkeeper be preventing from happening?
If the JK targets the Strongman *while they still have Strongman* then yes - the shot will go through.
The purpose of the strongman is balance vs recruitment of the traitor.
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I th/INk I'll play this game.
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/in
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If a jailkeeper targets a strongman, does the strongman kill go through? Because usually a strongman can break 1 level of protection, but if the strongman is the only other action in the game, what would the jailkeeper be preventing from happening?
If the JK targets the Strongman *while they still have Strongman* then yes - the shot will go through.
The purpose of the strongman is balance vs recruitment of the traitor.
Makes sense
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/in
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yoyo let's not let this die! We need 4 spots. lfg!!!
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😢😢😢
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/in
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/in
Vote: gkrieg
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We need to send a message to all the people who have played in the last few years and ask them to help bring mafia back to life. Maybe everyone is busy, but i'm not sure they want it to die...
ADK
Ashersky
robz
Mcmc
chairs
Dylan
Space
sudgy
infangthief
who else??
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Umbrage of snow, raerae, silverspawn, mail-mi Haddock, Lalight (though he's most likely unreachable), JReggie, Glooble..
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Eevee
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Voltaire, Morgrim7, theory ... may as well swing for the fences :P
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iguana
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Umbrage of snow, raerae, silverspawn, mail-mi Haddock, Lalight (though he's most likely unreachable), JReggie, Glooble..
I’ve been worried about LaLight. I hope he’s doing okay.
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Anyone interested in sending a message to them? I don’t know the ones on Joths list, do maybe some OG?
Also:
Brightgairs
Pubby
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Has anyone pinged these homies or should i do it?
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Has anyone pinged these homies or should i do it?
You!
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Hey
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/in, probably
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I've missed you
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I've missed you
Oh! I have missed you so much and have been thinking all kinds of good thoughts for you for the last year. I am so happy to see you!!
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/in
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Welcome back Lalight!
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Awaclus!! Hello!!
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I’ve pinged Swan. That’s L1, looking for a hammer. (We’ll need to reconfirm the list).
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Still /in but VLA from 30 Nov - 5 Dec
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An offer I cannot refuse... /in
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holy ballz Batman!
OK cool - let's reconfirm the list please.
Ill send some pings tomorrow.
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I've missed you
Oh! I have missed you so much and have been thinking all kinds of good thoughts for you for the last year. I am so happy to see you!!
oh, thank you so much! I have changed 2 countries of residence and currently I am living in Israel for good, I think
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I've missed you
Oh! I have missed you so much and have been thinking all kinds of good thoughts for you for the last year. I am so happy to see you!!
oh, thank you so much! I have changed 2 countries of residence and currently I am living in Israel for good, I think
Oh, wow!! That’s a lot of change, but I’m really happy that you’re safe.
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will be checking in this week with hopes of launching by eow.
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Okie dokie.
Missing these four for a courtesy re-in. PMs sent. So hopefully we will here back soon and be rolling!
Joth
MiX
Math
Joseph
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re-/in
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I'm still in. Didn't get pm.
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given the hunt activity efoo I just assumed you were good :)
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given the hunt activity efoo I just assumed you were good :)
:). You mentioned that you sent out PMs?
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given the hunt activity efoo I just assumed you were good :)
:). You mentioned that you sent out PMs?
just to these 4
Joth
MiX
Math
Joseph
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ohhhhhh
nono - re confirming PMs... not like PM-PMs.
Those hopefully tomorrow :)
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MAth and Mix both confirmed in
Waiting on Joth and Joseph - if anyone has other means of comms with them :)
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/in
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Oh Jothyyyy boyyyyy
come out and playyyyy
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In case anyone's not on the discord, the link is in my signature.
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Assuming that discord is being used for this game
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I’ll ping Joth on FB
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*yawn*
*makes mental note that he needs to start checking this forum more regularly in case this game actually gets up and running!*
(At least sending me my role on Discord should give me a notification and remind me when it starts... I hope!)
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anyone got word from joth and or think of anyone else that would want to fill the last spot?
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I sent him a FB message but nothing. :/
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I just messaged joth on Discord, as he was showing online
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Uh hi.
Is this thing starting up right away or like after the holidays.
I’d love to play but idk how much I’ll be able to check in between like the 22nd and the 2nd.
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Does town just win this set up if they hit the strongman with the D1 exile?
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we can start after christmas if everyone is ok with that?
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we can start after christmas if everyone is ok with that?
Works for me.
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we can start after christmas if everyone is ok with that?
Sure, will be less busy come January, so more time for this game
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Sure
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sure!
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Does town just win this set up if they hit the strongman with the D1 exile?
It appears that way. It also appears the Jail Keeper is useless until recruitment of Traitor happens.
I'm good with starting whenever. I assume I'll get a message in Discord with my role? Or will it be a PM here to a Discord link? I forget how that worked.
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ill post it here and then also it will come through discord.
I will get things out and running soon here, but we will just go ahead and wait until right after XMAS to start :)
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apologies. My holiday life went a lttle bonkers.
We will get the roles out tomorrow/Tuesday at the latest!
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are they out? are we using discord?
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yes we are. I am so sorry all. I got shipped to Utah 2 days ago for work extremely last minute. I will do my best to get them out over the next few days.
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
You still have our numbers? Shoot us a text if you're around and want to grab a beer. Swowl *should* hopefully be back from Utah on Tuesday sometime.
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
You still have our numbers? Shoot us a text if you're around and want to grab a beer. Swowl *should* hopefully be back from Utah on Tuesday sometime.
FUN!!!
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
Obviously joth is scum and giving himself a reason to not be present for the first few days.
Vote: joth
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
Obviously joth is scum and giving himself a reason to not be present for the first few days.
Vote: joth
Well if we're voting early, then Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1
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I am shipping off to SF tomorrow morning for a weeklong work trip, so I may be pretty VLA as we start.
You still have our numbers? Shoot us a text if you're around and want to grab a beer. Swowl *should* hopefully be back from Utah on Tuesday sometime.
Ah I just saw this! Twould have been fun. I was real real busy though.
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Anyway, this game eh?
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OK! My life has now straightened out! Check discord tomorrow for roles!
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Which tomorrow?
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Which tomorrow?
Seems like many tomorrows time :(
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sending out the invites now. If you received one and the channel has been deleted that bc I'm dumb and did not make the first batch private and had to re roll the game :P
Please confirm when you can. Given the delay I am gonna be kinda lenient on start time to give people time to confirm.
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k all sent.
Please confirm in Discord.
THREAD LOCKED EXCEPT FOR TAGS
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Waiting on 1 player.
Planning that game will start Monday at 3pm FT.
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Sweet. All confirmed just now.
Will open this up shortly.
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/speccy
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*Reserved for Flavor*
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Game Is Open!
Feel free to post.
Day 1 starts now and ends on Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
10 Alive. Majority exile. Etc.
more formal moving forward - no computer.
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Well, I can't vote Dylan. So I guess that leaves MiX or gk? Which of you are scum?
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alright. so who the heck is actually in this game?
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Hi! It's been so long!
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um hi everyone
i forgot what to do in this game
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vote: MiX i guess
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I'm the SK
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And Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1 (it's been 5.5 years and I'm still making this joke vote every game)
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Request: Voote count
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How do you even play this game?
Do I vote someone at random? I kinda don't feel like it...
It's good to see everyone! I want to acknowledge
Vote: Didds
The most right now.
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Hi! It's been so long!
Hi!
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How do you even play this game?
I believe that, following the script, it is now time for someone to advocate for a day 1 no exile because we have an even number of players.
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Sign Up List:
1. Joth
2. WCD
3. MiX
4. Mathdude
5. EFHW
6. Joseph
7. gkrieg
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus
10. scolapasta
My name is bold in the signup list.
I know I'm town, but I don't know anyone else's alignment.
Therefore, people who are bold in the signup list are disproportionately likely to be town.
Therefore, being bold in the signup list is towny.
Therefore, being unbold is scummy.
Q.E.D.
Vote: MiX
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Just re-reading the setup.
We should definitely exile because there's a chance town can just win the game on day 1. A 10% chance if we were to commit to a truly random vote, which is honestly not bad odds.
It's really, really important that the jailkeeper stay hidden. They have like all of the town power and their existence is the only thing incentivising the mafia not to recruit. As long as the mafia doesn't recruit, the JK is a named townie. But also as long as the mafia doesn't recruit we have that chance of winning the game with every exile.
Idk, I guess the really important question for town is "Should we want the mafia to recruit or not?" If they recruit
- We get a no kill night
- We're playing against a team with chat, which gives us more meaningful interactions to analyse
- We get a functional jailkeeper, who could lead to more no-kill nights
If they don't
- Strongman is vulnerable/ town only needs to get lucky once to win
- The traitor doesn't know their partner, which means they could help us exile them (albeit unknowingly)
Additionally, if we exile the traitor and the jailkeeper is still alive they essentially become a triggered IC -- because their power will be useless for the rest of the game, other than as a named townie who scum can't counterclaim without throwing the game away.
Some questions for the mod:
Once the mafia recruits, is their nightkill able to be used by either player like normal, or only by the strongman?
What if the strongman dies after recruiting -- does the traitor than inherit the nightkill?
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Hi hi hi hi hi hi!!
I’ve missed you all so much!! LaLi, I’m especially glad that you’re back! I hope the new digs are treating you well.
I’m digging Awa ‘s surmise about the bold names are town names. All of those regular font people are shifty.
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Just re-reading the setup
Reading the setup is scummy
Vote: joth
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What do people think about a mass claim at this point?
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How many town JKs are there?
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Sign Up List:
1. Joth
2. WCD
3. MiX
4. Mathdude
5. EFHW
6. Joseph
7. gkrieg
8. LaLight
9. Awaclus
10. scolapasta
My name is bold in the signup list.
I know I'm town, but I don't know anyone else's alignment.
Therefore, people who are bold in the signup list are disproportionately likely to be town.
Therefore, being bold in the signup list is towny.
Therefore, being unbold is scummy.
Q.E.D.
Vote: MiX
Good logic, sadly I can't apply it since I'm not in bold, which means not being bold makes an average person more likely to be town, but there's more bold names than not, which means there's on average more bold townies than not.
Overall I don't regret voting Didds.
What do people think about a mass claim at this point?
No? I mean, I can see the appeal, but, no?
How many town JKs are there?
One? This setup is townsided enough as it is.
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How many town JKs are there?
One? This setup is townsided enough as it is.
One seems like the obvious assumption, but it doesn't actually say that anywhere in the setup. It just says how many townies there are in total and lists the possible PMs. For all we know, there could be 0 JKs.
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- We're playing against a team with chat, which gives us more meaningful interactions to analyse
This is a strictly bad thing to happen. If scum doesn't want to give us the more meaningful interactions, they can just choose to not chat, and if they choose to chat anyway, then clearly they think the advantage they get from chatting is bigger than the disadvantage from us being able to analyze their interactions more meaningfully.
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How do you even play this game?
Do I vote someone at random? I kinda don't feel like it...
It's good to see everyone! I want to acknowledge
Vote: Didds
The most right now.
I missed you, too, MiXy!
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I would put scum getting chat in the con column.
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What do people think about a mass claim at this point?
unbelievably bad idea
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How many town JKs are there?
One? This setup is townsided enough as it is.
One seems like the obvious assumption, but it doesn't actually say that anywhere in the setup. It just says how many townies there are in total and lists the possible PMs. For all we know, there could be 0 JKs.
This is a good catch, as it somewhat negates my point about named townies and ICs.
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What do people think about a mass claim at this point?
Right... because 9 claimed Town and 1 claimed JK is a great help. Almost as helpful as 10 claimed Town. /sarcasm
RVS for the win?
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Having played as traitor, I always consider it an advantage, at least at first, to not know who my partner is. It makes it much easier to pretend not to know who my partner is.
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I would put scum getting chat in the con column.
Having done that, it seems better for town for mafia not to recruit. It isn't really up to us though, is it?
Agree exile, no mass claim, jk stays hidden. Mass claim wasn't a serious suggestion, I think.
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Having played as traitor, I always consider it an advantage, at least at first, to not know who my partner is. It makes it much easier to pretend not to know who my partner is.
Joth is tautologically correct!
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Having played as traitor, I always consider it an advantage, at least at first, to not know who my partner is. It makes it much easier to pretend not to know who my partner is.
Joth is tautologically correct!
Lots of big words today! Are you writing a book?
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Hi all!
Man, I thought when I hammered, we'd get a relatively quick start - no shade on swowl at all, just I'm just mentioning because I will be traveling to Korea next week (and prepping this week). So not sure how much I'll be around, especially later next week. though I'm also not sure when the end of day 1 is actually, as the post says Jan 20? that doesn't seem right. :)
is there an actual known reason why some of the names are bold, btw?
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And Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1 (it's been 5.5 years and I'm still making this joke vote every game)
oh god how many years
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Hi hi hi hi hi hi!!
I’ve missed you all so much!! LaLi, I’m especially glad that you’re back! I hope the new digs are treating you well.
I’m digging Awa ‘s surmise about the bold names are town names. All of those regular font people are shifty.
aw thank you
life's utterly chaotic, but I'm well and my close ones are too
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so far joth seems scummy, but it's a usual "he's too active, this is suspicious"
other than that no reads. and yeah, claim bad rvs funny no exile bad
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I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
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Having played as traitor, I always consider it an advantage, at least at first, to not know who my partner is. It makes it much easier to pretend not to know who my partner is.
Joth is tautologically correct!
Lots of big words today! Are you writing a book?
Wow, EFHW…. That was eerie. I’m not currently writing a book, but I edited one during our f.ds hiatus! I didn’t realize my academic-ishness stuck around like that.
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Hi all!
Man, I thought when I hammered, we'd get a relatively quick start - no shade on swowl at all, just I'm just mentioning because I will be traveling to Korea next week (and prepping this week). So not sure how much I'll be around, especially later next week. though I'm also not sure when the end of day 1 is actually, as the post says Jan 20? that doesn't seem right. :)
is there an actual known reason why some of the names are bold, btw?
Ooooohhhhhh…. What are you doing in Korea??
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Looks like I don't get e-mail notifications from f.ds at all anymore, it used to be a little random before but I haven't gotten a single notification this whole thread. I guess I have to keep up with it manually.
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Also DAMA.
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Also DAMA.
if you were scum, what would be your first post in the thread? What would be the one if you were town?
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And Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1 (it's been 5.5 years and I'm still making this joke vote every game)
oh god how many years
It was August 2017
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Also DAMA.
What is DAMA?
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I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
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I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
Interesting. Why is that something lurking scum would say but
Looks like I don't get e-mail notifications from f.ds at all anymore, it used to be a little random before but I haven't gotten a single notification this whole thread. I guess I have to keep up with it manually.
is not? They're both very similar excuses for low activity, but Joseph called one out and ignored the other. Could it be because one came from a partner? J'accuse
Vote: Joseph2302
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Vote: joth
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Awa, is the notify button at the top of the thread not working?
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I’m just sitting here being delighted that Joth says things like j’accuse. And then disappointed that MiXy doesn’t find it as delightful.
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if you were scum, what would be your first post in the thread? What would be the one if you were town?
Unfortunately I'm no longer drunk, but either way, it would be this:
/in
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Also DAMA.
What is DAMA?
See http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16266.0
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Awa, is the notify button at the top of the thread not working?
I've got an unnotify button there instead and haven't gotten even a single notification.
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I’m just sitting here being delighted that Joth says things like j’accuse. And then disappointed that MiXy doesn’t find it as delightful.
Oh I didn't see that, I just saw the argument and I think it's awful, and I think this reminded me of scum!joth but honestly it's been so long I don't think I have a good meta on anyone anymore.
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Vote: joth
<3 you too buddy
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Awa, is the notify button at the top of the thread not working?
I've got an unnotify button there instead and haven't gotten even a single notification.
Ugh. Things should just work properly
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I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
Interesting. Why is that something lurking scum would say but
Looks like I don't get e-mail notifications from f.ds at all anymore, it used to be a little random before but I haven't gotten a single notification this whole thread. I guess I have to keep up with it manually.
is not? They're both very similar excuses for low activity, but Joseph called one out and ignored the other. Could it be because one came from a partner? J'accuse
Vote: Joseph2302
Vote: Awaclus then
My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
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Vote: Awaclus then
My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
What a godawful theory. Vote: Joseph
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My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
Yes I agree that winning the game and not winning the game are pretty much the same.
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Vote: Awaclus then
My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
What a godawful theory. Vote: Joseph
Non-RVS vote btw.
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if you were scum, what would be your first post in the thread? What would be the one if you were town?
Unfortunately I'm no longer drunk, but either way, it would be this:
/in
correct.
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So Joseph's theory is irresponsible but joth jumped on it pretty quick. I'm thinking scum!Joseph wouldn't come out with such a weak theory so early. This could be scum!joth I suppose, but also pretty weak. So, /meh for both and I won't vote.
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I'm thinking scum!Joseph wouldn't come out with such a weak theory so early.
That's exactly what scum!Joseph would want you to think.
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My vote started out RVS-y but... idk. I don't love his response.
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I'm thinking scum!Joseph wouldn't come out with such a weak theory so early.
That's exactly what scum!Joseph would want you to think.
So scum!joseph wants to look towny and decides to do it by acting like newbie scum? Or are you just jabbing at him in an RVS way?
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ah yes, town!Awaclus
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Hi all!
Man, I thought when I hammered, we'd get a relatively quick start - no shade on swowl at all, just I'm just mentioning because I will be traveling to Korea next week (and prepping this week). So not sure how much I'll be around, especially later next week. though I'm also not sure when the end of day 1 is actually, as the post says Jan 20? that doesn't seem right. :)
is there an actual known reason why some of the names are bold, btw?
Ooooohhhhhh…. What are you doing in Korea??
Invited by a University there to do a workshop about our software. (and will have a few days of tourism as well). Unfortunately, it is just as cold (or even colder) there than here in Boston.
I’m just sitting here being delighted that Joth says things like j’accuse. And then disappointed that MiXy doesn’t find it as delightful.
There's a BU hockey player named Jack Hughes. Every time the announcers say his name, I think they're saying "j'accuse"!
Re: this game - I'm at my usual don't know who to vote for / not for, as everything seems to me like it could be scummy or towny. e.g. joth's detailed analysis seems like it should be towny, but then of course makes me think the opposite.
Still want to know when the day ends?
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I'd guess the day ends on Monday since that is when it started and they are 7 days long...
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I'd guess the day ends on Monday since that is when it started and they are 7 days long...
Got it. Then I'll try to make sure to somehow figure out where to put my vote before my flight Saturday night, in case I'm unable to post Monday (I land Monday Korea time; it'll still be Sunday USA time - but not sure when / where I'll be up until the deadline for that first day).
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I'm thinking scum!Joseph wouldn't come out with such a weak theory so early.
That's exactly what scum!Joseph would want you to think.
So scum!joseph wants to look towny and decides to do it by acting like newbie scum? Or are you just jabbing at him in an RVS way?
There's a simple answer: it's town!joseph acting like newb/idiot like usual
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So scum!joseph wants to look towny and decides to do it by acting like newbie scum?
Evidently it's working too, at least to some extent.
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
mathdude, you're in this game? I'm used to many more posts from you in these games. what's up?
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Vote Count 1.1
Joseph (2): Joth, Awaclus
Joth (1): MiX
MiX (1): LaLight
Awaclus (1): Joseph
Not Voting (5): WestCoastDidds, Mathdude, EFHW, Gkrieg, Scolapasta
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
How many town JKs are there?
There is 1.
Once the mafia recruits, is their nightkill able to be used by either player like normal, or only by the strongman?
What if the strongman dies after recruiting -- does the traitor than inherit the nightkill?
Either player can use factional kill if recruit happens.
Yes Traitor will have access to NK.
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
mathdude, you're in this game? I'm used to many more posts from you in these games. what's up?
Yes I'm in this game. That's why I'm posting.
Many more posts? In RVS? I don't know... it's been a while. Life changes and online habits change.
Are you being deliberately unobservant about who is in the game? Trying to poke and prod already? Keep the attention away from yourself?
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
No we're not, we're only 4 days from the deadline.
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In fact let's do Vote: mathdude
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good, vote: mathdude
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Vote: mathdude
#wagons
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That's L-3 I think?
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Good wagon. Let me see if my instincts are still accurate.
Vote: EFHW
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
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Ooohh…. Things got spicy overnight!
Mathdude is wrong that it’s too early for wagons, especially since we tend to get quiet on weekends.
MiX is voting around as much as I’d expect.
I like when Awa is around.
I’m super suspicious when gkrieg is not around.
I wonder what happened to the Joth wagons.
I have no way to read EFHW at all. She is the best.
I vote for Joseph all the time. I’m almost never right. But it’s not the worst move.
LaLi on the quick awaclus follow would be more sus to me if mathdude hadn't made the “it’s too early” arg.
Scola seems very Scola. Which is sometimes scummy, but often not.
I have a slight preference for
Vote: gkrieg
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
mathdude, you're in this game? I'm used to many more posts from you in these games. what's up?
Yes I'm in this game. That's why I'm posting.
Many more posts? In RVS? I don't know... it's been a while. Life changes and online habits change.
Are you being deliberately unobservant about who is in the game? Trying to poke and prod already? Keep the attention away from yourself?
Sure, I was being a little facetious with "you're in the game?". But I do think you've posted significantly less often than you normally do, even during RVS. Was curious if there was a reason.
I am fairly surprised at the quick wagon on you after that, though.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
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So... any particular reason we're all piling on mathdude?
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So... any particular reason we're all piling on mathdude?
any reason we shouldn't?
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So... any particular reason we're all piling on mathdude?
He's the strongman.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Except I gave a reason.
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So... any particular reason we're all piling on mathdude?
any reason we shouldn't?
i don't think that's how this works
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Except I gave a reason.
My "huh" was to your reason. I do have trouble posting D1 because I'm not very good at D1 reads. (that said, I think my game has evolved so that I do sometime find D1 interactions useful to review on D2+).
I'm still unsure how to read mathdude's wagon. I don't think scum would jump on it so quickly, so my instinct is those voters are towny. But it still feels weird how it happened.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Except I gave a reason.
My "huh" was to your reason. I do have trouble posting D1 because I'm not very good at D1 reads. (that said, I think my game has evolved so that I do sometime find D1 interactions useful to review on D2+).
I'm still unsure how to read mathdude's wagon. I don't think scum would jump on it so quickly, so my instinct is those voters are towny. But it still feels weird how it happened.
Yes, I remember you saying before that D1 feels awkward to you, and that does complicate things. But this was my impression, and it's the best lead so far.
The mathdude wagon is weird. It's hard to know what to conclude about it, if anything.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Except I gave a reason.
My "huh" was to your reason. I do have trouble posting D1 because I'm not very good at D1 reads. (that said, I think my game has evolved so that I do sometime find D1 interactions useful to review on D2+).
I'm still unsure how to read mathdude's wagon. I don't think scum would jump on it so quickly, so my instinct is those voters are towny. But it still feels weird how it happened.
Yes, I remember you saying before that D1 feels awkward to you, and that does complicate things. But this was my impression, and it's the best lead so far.
The mathdude wagon is weird. It's hard to know what to conclude about it, if anything.
I get that - your "lead" is not disimilar to my mathdude observation - I just didn't think mine rose to the level of voting yet and more just trying to understand of there was something else going on.
It does seem to be a much more quiet game than usual for many - I'd expect to see more posts from Awaclus and MiX, as well.
(I'm also surprised MiX has voted for me yet, as he tends to vote for me early on D1 and add the fact that Messi is now CAMPEON MUNDIAL- I was sure to be a target)
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Not that again. Can I make it a scumslip?
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I just wanted to make a post, but I'll make another one.
I just have the opposite views of EFHW this game: I think scola is town, I think the wagon on mathdude makes sense (I don't know his alignment), and I also thought EFHW was playing too passively before I voted her, and I don't think her vote on scola is good enough.
Now, if I was being serious I would read meta, but I'm currently not. I might actually do it though, unlike previous games. It's just been too long.
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Vote Count 1.2
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, LaLight, Joseph
Joseph (1): Joth
EFHW (1): MiX
scolapasta (1): EFHW
gkrieg (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (3): Mathdude, gkrieg, Scolapasta
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
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Ooohh…. Things got spicy overnight!
Mathdude is wrong that it’s too early for wagons, especially since we tend to get quiet on weekends.
MiX is voting around as much as I’d expect.
I like when Awa is around.
I’m super suspicious when gkrieg is not around.
I wonder what happened to the Joth wagons.
I have no way to read EFHW at all. She is the best.
I vote for Joseph all the time. I’m almost never right. But it’s not the worst move.
LaLi on the quick awaclus follow would be more sus to me if mathdude hadn't made the “it’s too early” arg.
Scola seems very Scola. Which is sometimes scummy, but often not.
I have a slight preference for
Vote: gkrieg
I had forgotten about the typical inactivity of some on weekends. So you are right... it likely was not too early for wagons.
Thanks for your full thought breakdown. It started out actually useful, but unfortunately ended with a lot of fluff.
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That was really rude.
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I'd definitely be happy with a non-RVS vote on Joseph. But I think we're too early to start too much of a wagon yet.
mathdude, you're in this game? I'm used to many more posts from you in these games. what's up?
Yes I'm in this game. That's why I'm posting.
Many more posts? In RVS? I don't know... it's been a while. Life changes and online habits change.
Are you being deliberately unobservant about who is in the game? Trying to poke and prod already? Keep the attention away from yourself?
Sure, I was being a little facetious with "you're in the game?". But I do think you've posted significantly less often than you normally do, even during RVS. Was curious if there was a reason.
I am fairly surprised at the quick wagon on you after that, though.
I think I already answered about a reason why my playing isn't the same. Life has changed. My online habits have changed. Different job, family changes, and I've spent almost no time on the forums for many months. I had a hard time reading people back when we played regularly... so I don't know how much I can contribute anymore now that it's been so long.
About the wagon on me, I think it makes complete sense, given the context at the time. I don't agree with some people that it likes townie (even ignoring the fact that I know I'm Town). This game setup is different, as Scum can probably do things they wouldn't normally do, since there is less partner interaction for us to read.
I know one iterating I have always had trouble reading is gk So for now,
Vote: gk[\b]
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That was really rude.
What about it? The comment about fluff? I just mean there's a lot of non-commital comments. Nothing that we can really confirm or push back against.
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I was just getting on to "defend" you.
@mathdude voters: I get that his comment was anti-town, but I don't see a scum narrative. Protecting Joseph? It IS early for partner theories. Hedging, certainly, but that's unnecessary for scum's agenda in this setup with several wagons going. Trying to create a no exile? Scum wants an exile. Maybe it's just that you sense anxiety in his post? I really would like to know.
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That was really rude.
What about it? The comment about fluff? I just mean there's a lot of non-commital comments. Nothing that we can really confirm or push back against.
"Actually", "unfortunately ", "fluff", "thanks" when you didn't in fact appreciate it.
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A propos of nothing, I love it that my phone still suggests mafia related words like anti-town and mathdude.
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I was just getting on to "defend" you.
@mathdude voters: I get that his comment was anti-town, but I don't see a scum narrative. Protecting Joseph? It IS early for partner theories. Hedging, certainly, but that's unnecessary for scum's agenda in this setup with several wagons going. Trying to create a no exile? Scum wants an exile. Maybe it's just that you sense anxiety in his post? I really would like to know.
He could be hesitating to join a wagon on traitor!Joseph while suggesting that he totally could vote for Joseph if only not for these purely technical reasons that have nothing to do with his reads, he could be hesitating to join a wagon on town!Joseph who he knows is a misxile while leaving open the option of joining it later when it hopefully looks less scummy to do so.
Meanwhile, there's no town narrative. "Oh no, there are two votes on this random other player whose alignment I don't know, and we are only almost halfway through the day! I better do something about this" is not a believable thought process for him to have.
In general, literally everything he has done this game has been mostly about himself and being concerned about how he's being read by others, he's overexplaining everything he's doing, even when he's not even really doing anything he's somehow still explaining it. Being focused on himself stopped being alignment indicative after the wagon on him started, but he was doing it since the beginning, and he's definitely still doing it too.
Vote: gk[\b]
Scumslip!
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I don’t hate vote: mathdude
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Vote: gk[\b]
Scumslip!
Wait that doesn't even make sense anymore.
I also feel like you described mathdude in every game.
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I also feel like you described mathdude in every game.
I think I already answered about a reason why my playing isn't the same. Life has changed.
Schrödinger's mathdude is playing the game exactly the same he always has, and also completely differently because of all the changes to his life.
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That was really rude.
What about it? The comment about fluff? I just mean there's a lot of non-commital comments. Nothing that we can really confirm or push back against.
It might be considered rude to characterize someone’s comments as worthless, especially when there are simultaneous conversations going on about naked votes being insufficient. Further, I think you’re wrong about my post not saying anything. I’m not sure exactly where you think it became meaningless, but since I shared my thinking about everyone and ended in a vote, it actually has a fair amount of value. If you mean that some of my comments are non-communal or middling, that is fair. I don’t have strong feelings about those folks, or I do but I know better than to act on them since they lead me astray so frequently. But at least you know where I stand.
I hope the life and family changes have been welcome. My work schedule is crazy pants this semester and I realize now that I way underestimated my ability to power through late afternoon classes. I am, deep my heart, a morning person.
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Also, I know we have no ability to change the name that f.ds gives us, but I freaking love that Joth is a Jester, EFHW is a spy, Awaclus is an Adventurer, Mathdude is a Conspirator, MiX is a Navigator, and I am a Diplomat.
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I was just getting on to "defend" you.
@mathdude voters: I get that his comment was anti-town, but I don't see a scum narrative. Protecting Joseph? It IS early for partner theories. Hedging, certainly, but that's unnecessary for scum's agenda in this setup with several wagons going. Trying to create a no exile? Scum wants an exile. Maybe it's just that you sense anxiety in his post? I really would like to know.
He could be hesitating to join a wagon on traitor!Joseph while suggesting that he totally could vote for Joseph if only not for these purely technical reasons that have nothing to do with his reads, he could be hesitating to join a wagon on town!Joseph who he knows is a misxile while leaving open the option of joining it later when it hopefully looks less scummy to do so.
My point is that there were three other wagons he could have joined, or he could have started one on his own. There was no need for scum!math to even mention Joseph.
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My point is that there were three other wagons he could have joined, or he could have started one on his own. There was no need for scum!math to even mention Joseph.
Why was there a need for town!math to mention Joseph?
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My point is that there were three other wagons he could have joined, or he could have started one on his own. There was no need for scum!math to even mention Joseph.
Why was there a need for town!math to mention Joseph?
If he was trying to decide whether to vote him.
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If he was trying to decide whether to vote him.
Then there's no need for him to post anything at all.
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If he was trying to decide whether to vote him.
Then there's no need for him to post anything at all.
Most of us do tend to think out loud sometimes. You don't, so maybe it seems scummy to you.
I don't have some great townread on mathdude, I just think the case being made doesn't hang together.
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I also feel like you described mathdude in every game.
I think I already answered about a reason why my playing isn't the same. Life has changed.
Schrödinger's mathdude is playing the game exactly the same he always has, and also completely differently because of all the changes to his life.
Nice reference. I'm not a cat though. And when MiX said you described my every game, that's exactly what I was thinking at that point.
Find one thing I said (in this case, calling a post fluff), then it starts spiraling. Then get me as the easy D1 exile. Wouldn't be the first time.
The real question is... has scum jumped on my wagon yet or not? When would they think is the ideal time?
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I also feel like you described mathdude in every game.
I think I already answered about a reason why my playing isn't the same. Life has changed.
Schrödinger's mathdude is playing the game exactly the same he always has, and also completely differently because of all the changes to his life.
Nice reference. I'm not a cat though. And when MiX said you described my every game, that's exactly what I was thinking at that point.
Find one thing I said (in this case, calling a post fluff), then it starts spiraling. Then get me as the easy D1 exile. Wouldn't be the first time.
The real question is... has scum jumped on my wagon yet or not? When would they think is the ideal time?
I have to keep reminding myself that scum is just one person. So, there is no reason for them to go anywhere at all, as long as they aren't they the exile, in which case I'd assume there'd be all kinds of looking to get out from under. The question is, then, is that what you are doing now?
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Not that again. Can I make it a scumslip?
I mean, I think I get 3.5 years of this now... :)
A propos of nothing, I love it that my phone still suggests mafia related words like anti-town and mathdude.
So, even your phone thinks mathdude is mafia?
Also, I know we have no ability to change the name that f.ds gives us, but I freaking love that Joth is a Jester, EFHW is a spy, Awaclus is an Adventurer, Mathdude is a Conspirator, MiX is a Navigator, and I am a Diplomat.
Yay, I'm a Minion!
(https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/04/54/94/56/240_F_454945621_Fmy7wtnR8cCc99ui7JiZ7tjgESDAIs3r.jpg)
I have to keep reminding myself that scum is just one person. So, there is no reason for them to go anywhere at all, as long as they aren't they the exile, in which case I'd assume there'd be all kinds of looking to get out from under. The question is, then, is that what you are doing now?
a) I agree with this logic
b) I am always ware of people posting things like "I have to keep reminding myself that..." - I'm not saying it means youe scum, just that I feel that's something scum would do.
Right now, I'm leaning on putting my vote towards gkrieg or Lalight, as they haven't posted much and could be trying to lurk under the radar. If I were to choose an active player, I'm currently suspicious of Awaclus and joth more than mathdude. Not sure how to read MiX this game.
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I'm not trying to lurk, I still am trying to get used to the game back. So weird.
also I just read the setup, and it's interesting. So basically we have only one person with some kind of information, which is funny, because mafia is usually "the informed minority"
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i don't know, anyone seems pretty townie thus far. probably vote: gkrieg13
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ah, I'm also the jester
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ah, I'm also the jester
and also a potato
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I have to keep reminding myself that scum is just one person.
What do you mean scum is just one person?
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I have to keep reminding myself that scum is just one person.
What do you mean scum is just one person?
Well, right now it is one person, the strongman. And they know who the traitor is, but not vice versa. So, for all intents and purposes for this day, its just one person. Since the traitor knows nothing, they aren't part of a team or acting as team, presumably. At least that is how I read this "10 Player Game. 2 Skum v 8 Town." Am I missing something (its me, so entirely possible)
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I have to keep reminding myself that scum is just one person.
What do you mean scum is just one person?
Well, right now it is one person, the strongman. And they know who the traitor is, but not vice versa. So, for all intents and purposes for this day, its just one person. Since the traitor knows nothing, they aren't part of a team or acting as team, presumably. At least that is how I read this "10 Player Game. 2 Skum v 8 Town." Am I missing something (its me, so entirely possible)
The traitor knows they're the traitor and is trying to figure out who their partner is — just like town, but with the obvious difference that they want to protect rather than attack their partner reads, and in general try to look like they're doing something useful while actually being maximally useless. And the strongman knows who the traitor is, so they ideally want to protect not just themselves but the traitor as well.
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So, like, I don't think you're missing anything about the setup but I don't get how you get to the conclusion that it's basically the same as there being just one scum.
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ah, I'm also the jester
You are totally a Jester!!
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So, like, I don't think you're missing anything about the setup but I don't get how you get to the conclusion that it's basically the same as there being just one scum.
Well, in terms of there being a team or partners, its pointless since someone doesn't know who the team is so they are not working in concert. So, the strongman is just looking out for themselves, really, which means to me that that they are only one for all intents and purposes until/unless they recruit. We win if we find the SM, so the traitor is just irrelevant. And since the SM can't rely on a partner to defend them if things get sticky, they have to do it themselves. Which was the point I was trying to make. Mathdude is doing the most work in trying to shake a wagon, perhaps because he has to. If he is the SM a wagon is freaking scary.
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I only just saw Scola and LL’s responses to this thinking on the previous page. It looks like we all agree on it’s weird for the lone assassin!
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Well, in terms of there being a team or partners, its pointless since someone doesn't know who the team is so they are not working in concert. So, the strongman is just looking out for themselves, really, which means to me that that they are only one for all intents and purposes until/unless they recruit. We win if we find the SM, so the traitor is just irrelevant. And since the SM can't rely on a partner to defend them if things get sticky, they have to do it themselves. Which was the point I was trying to make. Mathdude is doing the most work in trying to shake a wagon, perhaps because he has to. If he is the SM a wagon is freaking scary.
The traitor isn't irrelevant, we stop winning if we find the SM if the SM recruits the traitor. So, if we exile the traitor today, that's great news for us and bad news for scum, which is why it's in the strongman's best interests to stop that from happening if possible.
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Vote Count 1.3
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
gkrieg (2): WestCoastDidds, LaLight
EFHW (1): MiX
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): Mathdude, gkrieg, Scolapasta
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
Vote: gk[\b]
This is not a valid vote.
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OK
Vote: gk
Fixing a typo fail from earlier
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So we have 2 wagons with L-3 (is correct terminology now meant to be E-3?)
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Well, in terms of there being a team or partners, its pointless since someone doesn't know who the team is so they are not working in concert. So, the strongman is just looking out for themselves, really, which means to me that that they are only one for all intents and purposes until/unless they recruit. We win if we find the SM, so the traitor is just irrelevant. And since the SM can't rely on a partner to defend them if things get sticky, they have to do it themselves. Which was the point I was trying to make. Mathdude is doing the most work in trying to shake a wagon, perhaps because he has to. If he is the SM a wagon is freaking scary.
The traitor isn't irrelevant, we stop winning if we find the SM if the SM recruits the traitor. So, if we exile the traitor today, that's great news for us and bad news for scum, which is why it's in the strongman's best interests to stop that from happening if possible.
Agree, this is what I was (badly) trying to say earlier in the thread. Better to kill a scum than a town, even if it's "only" the traitor.
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Yes, E-3 is what we say now. ExLo instead of LyLo, too.
I still think the traitor is mostly irrelevant on D1, but I’m not sure that it really matters. It’s obvi way better for us to find the SM and just win, and I don’t think there’s any disagreement about that. Similarly, we can’t look for partner interactions because, well, there won’t be any.
My real point was that if we manage to get some sort of real wagon going on the SM, they have to try to get out of it on their own because they don’t have any cover. So, we should see more vehement actions towards that end.
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Yes, E-3 is what we say now. ExLo instead of LyLo, too.
I still think the traitor is mostly irrelevant on D1, but I’m not sure that it really matters. It’s obvi way better for us to find the SM and just win, and I don’t think there’s any disagreement about that. Similarly, we can’t look for partner interactions because, well, there won’t be any.
There will be! The SM knows who the traitor is and interacts accordingly. The traitor is trying to figure out who the SM is and interacts accordingly. Sure, it is way better for us to find the SM and win, but that's only a 1 in 10 chance and while we can improve that by having good reads, we can't expect it to actually happen, so lynching the traitor is still an extremely good outcome for us.
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Come to think of it, aren't we, like, guaranteed to be in a pretty good spot regardless of who we exile? If we misxile a random townie and scum recruits traitor, it's 2 vs 7 and we have a strong PR and an extra day's worth of stuff to analyze. Hell, even if we misxile the JK, vanilla 2 vs 7 is pretty winnable. I guess scum doesn't have to recruit traitor if they're not under any suspicion and that makes it somewhat less town-favored.
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Come to think of it, aren't we, like, guaranteed to be in a pretty good spot regardless of who we exile? If we misxile a random townie and scum recruits traitor, it's 2 vs 7 and we have a strong PR and an extra day's worth of stuff to analyze. Hell, even if we misxile the JK, vanilla 2 vs 7 is pretty winnable. I guess scum doesn't have to recruit traitor if they're not under any suspicion and that makes it somewhat less town-favored.
Yes we're basically one day ahead. The counterpart is there's just less reads to be made.
Also I think both you and Didds are right: the traitor doesn't matter much, but they still matter enough for interactions. You can, and probably should, bus the crap out of them though.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Reviewing, realized that you acknowledge having trouble posting Day 1, so why would you say "huh?"
I'd love it if a couple more people would vote scola and we can see if there is any reaction. I don't think any of the other current wagons are on scum.
math, scola, gkrieg - will you be putting down votes soon? The day is almost over!
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I looked at the wrong vote count. gkrieg could be scum. I think there'd be more activity if math was scum. I'm not.
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OK
Vote: gk
Fixing a typo fail from earlier
Math put a vote.
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vote: scolapasta. Having trouble posting as scum?
PPE Huh?
I think you stole my "Huh?" in your PPE here.
Reviewing, realized that you acknowledge having trouble posting Day 1, so why would you say "huh?"
I'd love it if a couple more people would vote scola and we can see if there is any reaction. I don't think any of the other current wagons are on scum.
math, scola, gkrieg - will you be putting down votes soon? The day is almost over!
Because I don't understand your vote for the reason, since you implied my trouble posting was because I was scum.
Either way, I should vote something now, as I'm about to board my first flight (and be on planes / airports for the next 24 hours).
vote: gkrieg
I know he often doesn't post much, but by this point he usually is somewhat more involved. (I'll try to check in during my layover and see if he posts by then and changes my mind here)
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gkrieg hasn't posted in 4 days?
Prod: gkrieg
That is not alignment indicative, and if it was it would be indicative of VT.
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Gkrieg seems like an easy vote, as he hasn't posted much at all
OTOH, seems like an easy misexile target for scum to wagon on, which I think could be the case here
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Ergo, I think there's scum on the gkrieg wagon, as whilst exiling lurkers seems to be common, it's an easy out for scum SM to avoid being exiled and losing immediately
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Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT. That is just over 2 days!
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gkrieg hasn't posted in 4 days?
Prod: gkrieg
That is not alignment indicative, and if it was it would be indicative of VT.
Then wouldn't our chances be better if we exiled someone else?
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Scola, just wondering why you chose to vote gk instead of me out of those 2 potentially viable wagons.
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At my layover -
@mathdude - unlike others i do find Gkrieg's lack of posting to be suspect. It's just not the way he plays as town. As town, he has gaps, but not this long, and then usually posts something which i often find insightful.
As for you, you said life changes for not posting as much, and I'm willing to give you at least some benefit of the doubt there. And your actual posts haven't seemed scummy to me.
@swowl, i don't think mix voted for gkrieg.
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Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
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Prod: gkrieg
Not my fault Swowl can't read...
Vote: EFHW just in case he decides I did vote
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I’m in London through Thursday, FYI, and in meetings all day tomorrow and Tuesday so unlikely to be able to check in much.
I’m pretty happy with my vote where it is and I’m a bit disappointed the math wagon fizzled.
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I definitely have a list of town reads this game, but I suspect it’s not worth much in this particular game.
gkrieg is not on it.
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I’m pretty happy with my vote where it is and I’m a bit disappointed the math wagon fizzled.
Tends to happen witb early wagons :p
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At my layover -
@mathdude - unlike others i do find Gkrieg's lack of posting to be suspect. It's just not the way he plays as town. As town, he has gaps, but not this long, and then usually posts something which i often find insightful.
As for you, you said life changes for not posting as much, and I'm willing to give you at least some benefit of the doubt there. And your actual posts haven't seemed scummy to me.
@swowl, i don't think mix voted for gkrieg.
Are you saying that gkrieg would let down his team this way as scum but post as town?
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Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
And so I'm fine with my vote on math, don't see a compelling reason to change right now
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Hmmmm.... the gkrieg wagon is super interesting, especially since he has done nothing at all.
I vote for him ages ago in the hopes of getting some response, but this logic seems like some manufactured scum team naming since it ignores the timing of any of the votes.
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
vote: Joseph
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Vote Count 1.5
gkrieg (3): LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph2302, Jotheonah
scolapasta (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Joseph2302 (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT. That is just over 2 days!
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Sorry, obviously fallen way behind. I would not do this as scum, but I get why you would exile me just for inactivity. I’ll read this tomorrow.
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At my layover -
@mathdude - unlike others i do find Gkrieg's lack of posting to be suspect. It's just not the way he plays as town. As town, he has gaps, but not this long, and then usually posts something which i often find insightful.
As for you, you said life changes for not posting as much, and I'm willing to give you at least some benefit of the doubt there. And your actual posts haven't seemed scummy to me.
@swowl, i don't think mix voted for gkrieg.
Are you saying that gkrieg would let down his team this way as scum but post as town?
I also would be more engaged D1 as scum, because I would have conversed with team members at least a little in the scum chat.
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At my layover -
@mathdude - unlike others i do find Gkrieg's lack of posting to be suspect. It's just not the way he plays as town. As town, he has gaps, but not this long, and then usually posts something which i often find insightful.
As for you, you said life changes for not posting as much, and I'm willing to give you at least some benefit of the doubt there. And your actual posts haven't seemed scummy to me.
@swowl, i don't think mix voted for gkrieg.
Are you saying that gkrieg would let down his team this way as scum but post as town?
I also would be more engaged D1 as scum, because I would have conversed with team members at least a little in the scum chat.
Would gkrieg really townslip as town?
Serious question for everyone here.
Hmmmm.... the gkrieg wagon is super interesting, especially since he has done nothing at all.
I vote for him ages ago in the hopes of getting some response, but this logic seems like some manufactured scum team naming since it ignores the timing of any of the votes.
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
vote: Joseph
Good vote. Great vote. Consider me also voting for Joseph, if EFHW wasn't around.
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I think the more interesting question is would it occur to gkrieg to fake a townslip as scum. But, like, it’s not as if we haven’t already discussed at length the fact that scum doesn’t have chat and how that should effect our reads. So if it’s a townslip than not only did gkrieg not read the setup, he also hasn’t been following the thread particularly closely. That’s a pretty high level of carelessness.
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I might be willing to hammer on the strength of this hard-to-believe townslip.
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That’s not a hard “intent to hammer” — I’m gonna sleep on it.
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Would gkrieg really townslip as town?
Serious question for everyone here.
Seems about as likely as faking it as scum. I know I have had to refer back to the setup multiple times to remind myself how scum works in this game, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a townie who has been AFKing the whole game so far to know it by heart, but this townslip would also be trivial to come up with and fake as scum.
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At my layover -
@mathdude - unlike others i do find Gkrieg's lack of posting to be suspect. It's just not the way he plays as town. As town, he has gaps, but not this long, and then usually posts something which i often find insightful.
As for you, you said life changes for not posting as much, and I'm willing to give you at least some benefit of the doubt there. And your actual posts haven't seemed scummy to me.
@swowl, i don't think mix voted for gkrieg.
Are you saying that gkrieg would let down his team this way as scum but post as town?
I also would be more engaged D1 as scum, because I would have conversed with team members at least a little in the scum chat.
No chat in this game until traitor gets recruited.
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My take on this is that gkrieg is super disengaged. I don't see why he wouldn't townslip for real.
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If it is actually a fake townslip as Scum, we'll played. It may buy one extra day.
vote: Joseph
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i don't believe in this townslip. he's read enough to know he's the wagon, but not our discussion about that there's one scum?
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I'm going to be busy tomorrow, so just to be sure I get my vote somewhere useful for getting an exile,
vote: mathdude
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i don't believe in this townslip. he's read enough to know he's the wagon, but not our discussion about that there's one scum?
Exactly.
Intent to hammer gkrieg
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Didds count 1.1
gkrieg (2): LaLight, scolapasta
Mathdude (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, Jotheonah, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
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Ah so it wouldn’t be a hammer anymore? I guess I was looking at a very old vote count or something! Then vote: gkrieg
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Ah so it wouldn’t be a hammer anymore? I guess I was looking at a very old vote count or something! Then vote: gkrieg
Gkrieg was never hammerable, Swowl just miscounted MiX's prod request as a vote.
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I thought you were doing the fake hammer threat thing on purpose.
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I thought you were doing the fake hammer threat thing on purpose.
Yay, the return of the nonsense fakehammer
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I thought you were doing the fake hammer threat thing on purpose.
Same here.
I also wanted to say "why are you reaction testing gkrieg? That will take about a day at the rate gkrieg's posting, and then the day's over" but I didn't want to disrupt it :P
I still think EFHW is scum (either traitor that is doing absolutely nothing, or strongman that is laying low and voting someone at random, kinda like what I'm doing, I think that's a reasonable thing to do in this setup as scum) but I'm fine with mathdude being the exile today, or gkrieg if he doesn't post himself out of it today.
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I don't expect to be around much, but think my vote is in a good place right now
What's the rule if we don't get a hammer? Presumably no exile (which is bad for town)?
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I still think EFHW is scum (either traitor that is doing absolutely nothing, or strongman that is laying low and voting someone at random, kinda like what I'm doing, I think that's a reasonable thing to do in this setup as scum) but I'm fine with mathdude being the exile today, or gkrieg if he doesn't post himself out of it today.
Are you saying you are scum? By this logic, I should vote for you. My vote on scola is not random, btw, it's just that no one agrees with me (yet).
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I don't expect to be around much, but think my vote is in a good place right now
What's the rule if we don't get a hammer? Presumably no exile (which is bad for town)?
That's my reading of the rules. And I think that's still the default.
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What time is the deadline?
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What time is the deadline?
8:45 FT
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What time is the deadline?
8:45 FT
What time is 8:45 FT?
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What time is the deadline?
8:45 FT
Ah, sorry. Forum time. 20:45 Eastern standard
9-ish hours
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I still think EFHW is scum (either traitor that is doing absolutely nothing, or strongman that is laying low and voting someone at random, kinda like what I'm doing, I think that's a reasonable thing to do in this setup as scum) but I'm fine with mathdude being the exile today, or gkrieg if he doesn't post himself out of it today.
Are you saying you are scum? By this logic, I should vote for you. My vote on scola is not random, btw, it's just that no one agrees with me (yet).
Is there an argument forthcoming? Or what is the plan for people coming around to agree with you?
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Didds count 1.2
gkrieg (3): LaLight, scolapasta, Joth
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, January 20th at 8:45pm FT.
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I am about to be a busy Didds...meeting, student office office hours, class, drive home. I might be able to grab a few moments here and there, and I should be able check back in like an hour before the deadline. I am setting a reminder, but I will be scarce until then.
We should definitely exile today.
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What time is the deadline?
8:45 FT
Ah, sorry. Forum time. 20:45 Eastern standard
9-ish hours
Thanks.
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I'll be around for deadline, but I don't have a preference until gkrieg shows up.
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I will probably be around for deadline, or at least close to it. I have some school stuff to catch up on in the meantime though, so who knows how often I will remember to check the thread.
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If there's no interest in Joseph soon, I'll be switching back to gk.
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I still think EFHW is scum (either traitor that is doing absolutely nothing, or strongman that is laying low and voting someone at random, kinda like what I'm doing, I think that's a reasonable thing to do in this setup as scum) but I'm fine with mathdude being the exile today, or gkrieg if he doesn't post himself out of it today.
Are you saying you are scum? By this logic, I should vote for you. My vote on scola is not random, btw, it's just that no one agrees with me (yet).
Is there an argument forthcoming? Or what is the plan for people coming around to agree with you?
The argument is just that he is having trouble coming up with content to post. He denied it ("huh?"), but then said it's because it's Day 1. After today it won't be Day 1 anymore. We'll have more information. I'll get more confident and press it harder or I'll get less confident and let it go.
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Vote Count 1.6
gkrieg (3): LaLight, scolapasta, Joth
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, February 20th at 8:45pm FT. That is in roughly 5 hours!
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I still think EFHW is scum (either traitor that is doing absolutely nothing, or strongman that is laying low and voting someone at random, kinda like what I'm doing, I think that's a reasonable thing to do in this setup as scum) but I'm fine with mathdude being the exile today, or gkrieg if he doesn't post himself out of it today.
Are you saying you are scum? By this logic, I should vote for you. My vote on scola is not random, btw, it's just that no one agrees with me (yet).
Is there an argument forthcoming? Or what is the plan for people coming around to agree with you?
The argument is just that he is having trouble coming up with content to post. He denied it ("huh?"), but then said it's because it's Day 1. After today it won't be Day 1 anymore. We'll have more information. I'll get more confident and press it harder or I'll get less confident and let it go.
Once again, my huh wasn't a denial to what you said, but to that you thought it made me look like scum. It's weird that you keep trying to make this argument.
I'm unsure about my gkrieg argument/ vote because i feel if he were scum he would've tried to come back and defend himself more. But then that weird townslip which also makes little sense honestly either as town or scum. I don't see how town would confuse that, but that also makes it less likely scum would use it to try to make us think it's a townslip. I don't know what to make of it.
I might be around for deadline - though that might also be right when i have to present.
I should be able to get at least another post in before then though, maybe after breakfast.
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Also swowl, not sure what month it is back home anymore. But here in Korea it is February! ;D
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Ha!
Good Catch!
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Ooooofff.... I just feel like scum gk would have realized he was a lone wolf at this part, and would at least try not to get exiled. I just don't think he's scummy.
So, if I have to move my vote to consolidate my vote it would be to mathdude, but I don't feel super enthusiastic about that, especially since Joseph and EFHW are on that wagon. I feel the most towny about Awaclus.
MiX, what are you thinking?
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Oh, I see. You don't care.
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I won’t be on at deadline, because it’s already 10 pm here.
Didds you’re my top town read, if you tell me to move I will.
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I won’t be on at deadline, because it’s already 10 pm here.
Didds you’re my top town read, if you tell me to move I will.
The pressure!! I don't think it is gk, but I have no idea what the best shift is. Gk has the advantage of not being around, so we wouldn't be missing much, but if we are trying for scum I just don't think we find it there. But probably he is also not our JK, because again, that would probably lead to more vigorous play.
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Gonna leave my vote on vote: mathdude to increase the chances of an exile and because Awaclus is my other top town read. Good night fam!
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I am not going to have much time today either. I’m not scum, have not read the entire thread. I only read the last page yesterday before I posted. Did not realize the nature of the setup.
I will vote math for self-preservation though.
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Vote Count 1.7
Mathdude (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW, Joth
gkrieg (2): LaLight, scolapasta
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
With 10 Alive it takes 6 to Exile.
Day 1 ends Monday, February 20th at 8:45pm FT. That is in LESS THAN 3 hours!
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vote: mathdude
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vote: gk
So I see you'd all rather vote out a town who actually does read the thread, rather than someone who has openly admitted he hasn't paid any attention.
Nothing has changed. You guys clearly can't read me. I literally can't say anything D1 without looking scummy. It's kinda frustrating. Oh well... I'll watch from speccy.
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And there likely aren't even about people around to do anything about it.
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So I see you'd all rather vote out a town who actually does read the thread, rather than someone who has openly admitted he hasn't paid any attention.
No, we'd rather vote out the scum strongman who actually does read the thread, rather than someone who has openly admitted he hasn't paid any attention.
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Ugh! I’m so sorry! I was stuck in traffic until just now. My commute is terrible, but this was especially bad.
Vote: math in case I’m. It too late
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Presentation over. Missed deadline. I'll read now to see if anything exciting happened.
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Though workshop still going on, so won't be able to give my full attention, until later tonight (my time).
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I hope it went well, Scola! And that you were Scola the Scholar!
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Oh does no plurality mean that if math doesn't get enough votes he doesn't die.
Does that mean me not voting mattered.
Oh no. Now the game is hard.
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I was sure someone was going to come hammer. Well, it would be a very traitor-like move to show up "just a little late".
The game did just get interesting.
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I was sure someone was going to come hammer. Well, it would be a very traitor-like move to show up "just a little late".
The game did just get interesting.
If you are casting shade on me, quit it. It literally took me 2 hours in traffic to get home today and I am flattened enough by all that crap to take more of it now.
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I was sure someone was going to come hammer. Well, it would be a very traitor-like move to show up "just a little late".
The game did just get interesting.
If you are casting shade on me, quit it. It literally took me 2 hours in traffic to get home today and I am flattened enough by all that crap to take more of it now.
Just game-related discussions. scola falls in the same boat. Nothing personal. Just putting out some prompts for discussion tomorrow.
I'm tired of having anything I try to say D1 sounds suspicious. It seriously makes me consider just lurking D1 each game... and each time, come up with the same conclusion - I just can't justify doing that. One of these days, people will lay off me D1.
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But not MiX, who didn’t realize it was no exile? Or LaLight?
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But not MiX, who didn’t realize it was no exile? Or LaLight?
Guess I looked at the two who said they missed deadline. But yes, MiX fits the picture too.
Lalight just isn't here, as far as I know. So I'm not sure there.
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So, overall, you’d be more pleased had you been exiled?
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THREAD LOCKED
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Vote Count 1.Final
Mathdude (5): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW, Joth, gkrieg
gkrieg (3): LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude
Joseph2302 (1): WestCoastDidds,
EFHW (1): MiX
With 10 Alive it took 6 to Exile. With no one at 6 votes, there was no Exile Day 1.
Day 1 ended Monday, February 20th at 8:45pm FT.
Night 1 Starts now and ends February 22nd at 10:35pm Forum Time.
Please submit any night actions within 36 hours.
The below vote did NOT count as it was past deadline of 8:45pm FT.
Ugh! I’m so sorry! I was stuck in traffic until just now. My commute is terrible, but this was especially bad.
Vote: math in case I’m. It too late
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Joseph2302 has died! He was a Vanilla Townie!
After enjoying a pizza dinner with the Family, they made the mistake of getting into a car they left parked unwatched on the street. The key goes into the ignition and BOOM! Joseph story cuts to black.
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Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (9): Awaclus, EFHW, Joth, gkrieg, LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude, WestCoastDidds, MiX
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT.
THREAD UNLOCKED! POST AWAY!
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Sad we didn’t get the exile. I’llreread and be more engaged tomorrow. Game started at a bad time
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Vote Count 1.Final
Mathdude (5): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW, Joth, gkrieg
gkrieg (3): LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
EFHW (1): MiX
Mathdude gets two votes?
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Well let's see here, kill was in wagon, Joseph was voting mathdude, mathdude was voting Joseph...I think that points to math being scum (and specifically SM)
And if you add this:
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
Then I guess we should do what I failed to do and
Vote: mathdude
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Let's see what happens if I vote: scolapasta
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Hi friends! I’m on my way to to Palm Springs for a weekend with my girlfriends. I’ll check in, but anything hefty will have to wait until Sunday when I’m flying home.
I’m kind of shocked Joseph was town. I had the scummiest vibes from him. In other news, I’m really bad at reading vibes
Vote: Scola
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Now I'm torn! I like seeing the scola votes and I like MiX's reasoning. Though it does presuppose math not seeing how things would look if he killed Joseph, and someone could have killed Joseph to make math look bad.
I also don't want to exile town!scola, though, and L-2 is quickexile territory. I'm talking myself out of voting at all!
Consider me open to voting math or scola.
vote: MiX
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If I'm reading setup correctly, Scum knows who traitor is and chose not to recruit last night. So they likely don't feel threatened and find out safer to continue playing alone with immunity at night, at the risk of losing during day votes.
So I'd say gk is less likely to be Scum today, based on that (could still be Traitor, but that's less relevant until recruitment).
LL? Awaclus? MiX? Others? Who would feel confident continuing to play alone? I know it doesn't narrow it down much, but I'd say those with votes yesterday are less likely.
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Now I'm torn! I like seeing the scola votes and I like MiX's reasoning. Though it does presuppose math not seeing how things would look if he killed Joseph, and someone could have killed Joseph to make math look bad.
I also don't want to exile town!scola, though, and L-2 is quickexile territory. I'm talking myself out of voting at all!
Consider me open to voting math or scola.
vote: MiX
Based on what I just posted, I would have put Joseph on a safer list today too.
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@MiX - I think you quoted an incorrect vote count.
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Now I'm torn! I like seeing the scola votes and I like MiX's reasoning. Though it does presuppose math not seeing how things would look if he killed Joseph, and someone could have killed Joseph to make math look bad.
I also don't want to exile town!scola, though, and L-2 is quickexile territory. I'm talking myself out of voting at all!
Consider me open to voting math or scola.
vote: MiX
Based on what I just posted, I would have put Joseph on a safer list today too.
I don't know what you mean. MiX's argument was that you are SM and nk'd Joseph.
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@MiX - I think you quoted an incorrect vote count.
I just wanted to quote Joseph.
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If I'm reading setup correctly, Scum knows who traitor is and chose not to recruit last night. So they likely don't feel threatened and find out safer to continue playing alone with immunity at night, at the risk of losing during day votes.
That isn't a conclusion we can draw. It could equally well be that they chose to take the risk because they saw that as their only option with a chance of winning. Generally, it's good to take risks when you're losing and play it safe when you're winning, not the other way round, but the fact that this setup is already very difficult for scum to begin with limits how much we can read into that.
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I mean, if scum agreed with my analysis here, then "oh ShiT I guess I should do something differently to prevent it from playing out like that" is a reasonable thought process to have regardless of who it is.
Come to think of it, aren't we, like, guaranteed to be in a pretty good spot regardless of who we exile? If we misxile a random townie and scum recruits traitor, it's 2 vs 7 and we have a strong PR and an extra day's worth of stuff to analyze. Hell, even if we misxile the JK, vanilla 2 vs 7 is pretty winnable. I guess scum doesn't have to recruit traitor if they're not under any suspicion and that makes it somewhat less town-favored.
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Ok, finally read the setup and understand what is going on. A Joseph kill seems weird, since scum should just want to kill the towniest player. I guess maybe they thought Joseph was the JK?
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum.
I mean, we already missed the exile. Skip the nightkill and the game is exactly where it started, which means no flips to give context to a reread.
So scum basically gets to start at square 1 but with a team.
Instead they've opted to get 1 kill ahead, which is also good for them but they've given us another chance to one-shot them.
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
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Vote Count 1.Final
Mathdude (5): Awaclus, Joseph2302, EFHW, Joth, gkrieg
gkrieg (3): LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude
Joseph2302 (2): WestCoastDidds, mathdude
EFHW (1): MiX
Mathdude gets two votes?
This has been corrected. No he does not get 2 votes.
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum.
I mean, we already missed the exile. Skip the nightkill and the game is exactly where it started, which means no flips to give context to a reread.
So scum basically gets to start at square 1 but with a team.
Instead they've opted to get 1 kill ahead, which is also good for them but they've given us another chance to one-shot them.
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
You wouldn't, because you think it's more valuable to have the traitor not have any information than get a team but activate the JK. Right?
Clearly so does scum.
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum.
I mean, we already missed the exile. Skip the nightkill and the game is exactly where it started, which means no flips to give context to a reread.
So scum basically gets to start at square 1 but with a team.
Instead they've opted to get 1 kill ahead, which is also good for them but they've given us another chance to one-shot them.
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
You wouldn't, because you think it's more valuable to have the traitor not have any information than get a team but activate the JK. Right?
Clearly so does scum.
Had we succeeded in an exile day 1, I think it would have been a harder decision for me, because the tempo hit of not getting a kill would hurt more. Basically you'd be giving town one more kill than scum. But since we were helpful enough to skip our kill, I think that would have changed the math for me and made it worthwhile to recruit.
I'm very fixated on the vulnerability aspect though. Once again we're in a position to exile and win. ExWi, if you will, rather than ExLo.
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Now I'm torn! I like seeing the scola votes and I like MiX's reasoning. Though it does presuppose math not seeing how things would look if he killed Joseph, and someone could have killed Joseph to make math look bad.
I also don't want to exile town!scola, though, and L-2 is quickexile territory. I'm talking myself out of voting at all!
Consider me open to voting math or scola.
vote: MiX
Based on what I just posted, I would have put Joseph on a safer list today too.
I don't know what you mean. MiX's argument was that you are SM and nk'd Joseph.
Those who had votes often are up for suspicion the next day again, IIRC. So if I was SM, I would have kept gk and Joseph alive. Of course, now it's WIFOM.
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum.
I mean, we already missed the exile. Skip the nightkill and the game is exactly where it started, which means no flips to give context to a reread.
So scum basically gets to start at square 1 but with a team.
Instead they've opted to get 1 kill ahead, which is also good for them but they've given us another chance to one-shot them.
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
I definitely would have recruited. If I was SM, I think it would be pretty stupid for me not to have last night, given how the day ended and that there was a high likelihood of being a target again today.
In fact, I'm surprised Scum didn't actually do that, since it probably would point the finger right at me.
So is Awaclus trying to distract us from what he actually did, by saying what Scum should do depending on how safe they feel?
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum....
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
MiX?
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MiX is the gutsiest. But also, so are you.
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MiX is the gutsiest. But also, so are you.
Thanks, but I don't think it's me.
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Vote Count 2.1
scolapasta (2): Awaclus, WCD,
mathdude(1): MiX
MiX (1): EFHW
Not Voting (5): Joth, gkrieg, LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT.
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Maybe it is gkrieg or mathdude and it's just a big ol' WIFOM gambit.
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If scum is WIFOMing the night kill, scum is overthinking it because town never pays attention to the reads of the killed player. When I'm scum, I always just kill the players who scumread me and then I get away with it because all the people who scumread me are gone and nobody else thinks their opinions were worth listening to.
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Maybe it is gkrieg or mathdude and it's just a big ol' WIFOM gambit.
I never go for gambits on my own. I have supported other people’s gambits in the past though.
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Maybe it is gkrieg or mathdude and it's just a big ol' WIFOM gambit.
Always a possibility. But I didn't pull a gambit. And I'm not sure if gk would alone either... I wouldn't put it past him, but at the moment I believe him.
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@MiX How did you end up not voting towards getting an exile? You were there.
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@MiX How did you end up not voting towards getting an exile? You were there.
I forgot it wasn't plurality.
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Fyi, work Korea part is over, so now have less time for this until i get back Tuesday.
I am trying to keep up reading posts, but won't get a chance to really respond to anything until then.
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I’m checking in, but I’m a little bit surprised that there is so little activity.
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Vote Count 2.1
scolapasta (2): Awaclus, WCD,
mathdude(1): MiX
MiX (1): EFHW
Not Voting (6): Joth, gkrieg, LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude, WestCoastDidds
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT.
Swan, you have me listed twice :)
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I’m checking in, but I’m a little bit surprised that there is so little activity.
Weekends gonna weekend.
Also, we don’t have a ton to analyze. I suppose a Joseph reread would not be out of order.
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I’m checking in, but I’m a little bit surprised that there is so little activity.
Weekends gonna weekend.
True fact. I’m at this fancy resort this weekend, we saw Justin Bieber this morning before he went to play golf and then Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker at dinner, which is pretty disappointing as far as celebratory sightings go. Next weekend the Obama are coming to visit. I’d be way more swoony about seeing them.
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Oh. I'll be here in the evening
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Fyi, work Korea part is over, so now have less time for this until i get back Tuesday.
I am trying to keep up reading posts, but won't get a chance to really respond to anything until then.
Hope you're managing to keep up with the reading still!
I do not have time to reread anything this weekend... between marking/planning for school and family, life is busy.
Even if I were to just want to sheep someone's vote, I'm not sure who I would feel safe doing that to. I hope we see a little more from everyone by Monday or so.
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Joseph2302 has died! He was a Vanilla Townie!
After enjoying a pizza dinner with the Family, they made the mistake of getting into a car they left parked unwatched on the street. The key goes into the ignition and BOOM! Joseph story cuts to black.
this is a weird kill and my first thought was that it is pretty random.
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I’m kind of shocked Joseph was town. I had the scummiest vibes from him. In other news, I’m really bad at reading vibes
as far as I remember this is a normal vibe from Joseph
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L-2 is quickexile territory.
why does it matter? We're no close to exlo
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I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
or someone wants to find JK asap and then recruit.
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum....
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
MiX?
My initial rwaction is actually Awaclus. vote: Awaclus
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So let's finally do what needs to be done. Joseph reread.
I'm the SK
And Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1 (it's been 5.5 years and I'm still making this joke vote every game)
Request: Voote count
Just re-reading the setup
Reading the setup is scummy
Vote: joth
What do people think about a mass claim at this point?
And Vote: gkrieg for RL Mafia 1 (it's been 5.5 years and I'm still making this joke vote every game)
oh god how many years
It was August 2017
Also DAMA.
What is DAMA?
I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
Everything above is pretty much fluff. But here it gets interesting, given what Awaclus said:
I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
Interesting. Why is that something lurking scum would say but
Looks like I don't get e-mail notifications from f.ds at all anymore, it used to be a little random before but I haven't gotten a single notification this whole thread. I guess I have to keep up with it manually.
is not? They're both very similar excuses for low activity, but Joseph called one out and ignored the other. Could it be because one came from a partner? J'accuse
Vote: Joseph2302
Vote: Awaclus then
My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
Here we go with fluff again
I'm thinking scum!Joseph wouldn't come out with such a weak theory so early.
That's exactly what scum!Joseph would want you to think.
So scum!joseph wants to look towny and decides to do it by acting like newbie scum? Or are you just jabbing at him in an RVS way?
There's a simple answer: it's town!joseph acting like newb/idiot like usual
Then the vote:
Vote: mathdude
#wagons
That's L-3 I think?
So we have 2 wagons with L-3 (is correct terminology now meant to be E-3?)
Well, in terms of there being a team or partners, its pointless since someone doesn't know who the team is so they are not working in concert. So, the strongman is just looking out for themselves, really, which means to me that that they are only one for all intents and purposes until/unless they recruit. We win if we find the SM, so the traitor is just irrelevant. And since the SM can't rely on a partner to defend them if things get sticky, they have to do it themselves. Which was the point I was trying to make. Mathdude is doing the most work in trying to shake a wagon, perhaps because he has to. If he is the SM a wagon is freaking scary.
The traitor isn't irrelevant, we stop winning if we find the SM if the SM recruits the traitor. So, if we exile the traitor today, that's great news for us and bad news for scum, which is why it's in the strongman's best interests to stop that from happening if possible.
Agree, this is what I was (badly) trying to say earlier in the thread. Better to kill a scum than a town, even if it's "only" the traitor.
Gkrieg seems like an easy vote, as he hasn't posted much at all
OTOH, seems like an easy misexile target for scum to wagon on, which I think could be the case here
Ergo, I think there's scum on the gkrieg wagon, as whilst exiling lurkers seems to be common, it's an easy out for scum SM to avoid being exiled and losing immediately
But here he doesn't sr Awaclus anymore (which also doesn't really clear Awa from suspicion):
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
And so I'm fine with my vote on math, don't see a compelling reason to change right now
I thought you were doing the fake hammer threat thing on purpose.
Yay, the return of the nonsense fakehammer
And the last post
I don't expect to be around much, but think my vote is in a good place right now
What's the rule if we don't get a hammer? Presumably no exile (which is bad for town)?
I'm not sure what to draw from it, it's basically nothing. It points to mathdude, actually, probably, surely vote: mathdude
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basically Joseph voted for math and then stayed in there for the whole day. It would probably be a good idea to exile math.
Imagine if this is how this game would work, we just exile the most suspicious person and they are scum and we win. Woud be instant classic
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I'm glad you got to the same conclusion I did. Makes me feel validated.
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I'm not buying this scum!mathdude theory. I liked it ok at first, but the fact is it feels cooked up by scum. Scumpoints to Lalight for uncritically accepting it.
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Vote: EFHW
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I'm not buying this scum!mathdude theory. I liked it ok at first, but the fact is it feels cooked up by scum. Scumpoints to Lalight for uncritically accepting it.
I did not accept it in any way, I came to this conclusion by myself
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I'm not buying this scum!mathdude theory. I liked it ok at first, but the fact is it feels cooked up by scum. Scumpoints to Lalight for uncritically accepting it.
I did not accept it in any way, I came to this conclusion by myself
after rereading all Joseph's posts
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Vote: EFHW
you think math is traitor and EFHW is SM?
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Vote: EFHW
you think math is traitor and EFHW is SM?
That would make a lot of sense. Consider the following:
- EFHW defended Joseph, and killing a townie you just defended is an alright reason for killing someone because them flipping town gives you towncred for having defended them, and it removes the awkwardness of having to reverse your position later when you start to run out of townies you could accuse of being scum. If math is the traitor, that's all the more reason for scum to get rid of him.
- It has been proposed that the SM is either feeling very secure or has been forced to take a big risk since they chose not to recruit, but it recently hit me that there is a third, arguably more likely explanation: the traitor is someone who will likely get exiled anyway, making it just a waste of a night kill to recruit them. Math was the main wagon when the exile failed to go through, and therefore one of the most likely traitors.
- Ideally, the SM wants to avoid having the traitor exiled, but if the traitor is getting exiled anyway, bussing is good. EFHW's defense of math before ultimately joining the wagon is pretty consistent with this (it would have been a remarkably early commitment to bussing in that case, but evidently there were hopes of no exile going through, and EFHW is a competent enough player to realize that joining the wagon too late could come across as obvious bussing).
Separately from the hypothesis that math is the traitor, just in general whenever someone is trying to do something productive, EFHW chimes in in an attempt to shoot the case down, but she isn't building cases of her own and the votes she has cast have been for scola for not posting (which is a thing scola always does on D1 apparently), for math just to help an exile go through after explicitly defending math against the case on him, and for MiX for... not realizing we need a simple majority to get an exile through I guess? Super basic, unexciting reasons to vote for someone, and so her overall contribution to the game so far is that fewer cases are being made and pursued, which is anti-town. Could be the SM trying to buddy everyone by defending them, could be the SM buddying some people and also defending the traitor, could be the traitor just being anti-town on purpose while seemingly contributing.
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Awaclus has some good arguments, but they aren't correct.
Also, I didn't (only) vote MiX for not voting at deadline. I mostly voted him for coming out of the gate at the beginning of the day with a theory about why math is scum - and it was a theory that didn't take two very real possibilities into consideration: that math would likely know and consider how it looks to nk Joseph, and that someone could have killed Joseph in order to frame math.
MiX is also confident and gutsy enough to go solo without the traitor.
It's true I've been shooting down theories. But I think it's scummy to put forward poorly reasoned or otherwise suspect cases, so I call them out when I see them.
Why would MiX "forget" it wasn't plurality exile? I would expect MiX to be double checking that when it's clear there is about to be a no-exile. He tends be pretty detail oriented iirc.
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Awaclus's #2 fits into a MiX case pretty well. He frames his partner then busses him, looking to earn a lot of towncred and get the extra nk.
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It's not clear there's going to be a no exile if you think it's plurality right?
That was me, in the deadline.
Also I'm not even sure it's alignment indicative, scum!me wouldn't pass the chance to hammer math, I generally prefer to be in situations I have already planned for, and I would have planned for no day skips. Although both alignments can forget plurality equally, so I'm not gonna claim some townpoints there.
I really want to agree with Awaclus but I can't see myself voting EFHW before math if I follow it. Also I feel like it makes the game look bigger than what it is: this is basically a revival of f.ds mafia, somewhat, people aren't generally active and stuff. Scum doesn't need to think too hard, nor would I expect them to always think well. I know I wouldn't.
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Given what I just said I will simply give LaLight the town stamp of townhood and will protect them with my life.
I'm sure I could get more townreads if I read the whole game. I wonder if I'll do that. Oh and a VCA would be cool to setup, just for fun.
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Vote Count 2.2
mathdude(2): MiX, LaLight
scolapasta (1): WCD
MiX (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): Joth, gkrieg, scolapasta, mathdude
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT.
*Apologies on updates. Galz and I were at a work thing this weekend.*
Vote Count 2.1
scolapasta (2): Awaclus, WCD,
mathdude(1): MiX
MiX (1): EFHW
Not Voting (6): Joth, gkrieg, LaLight, scolapasta, mathdude, WestCoastDidds
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT.
Swan, you have me listed twice :)
This has been fixed. Thank you.
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Given what I just said I will simply give LaLight the town stamp of townhood and will protect them with my life.
I'm sure I could get more townreads if I read the whole game. I wonder if I'll do that. Oh and a VCA would be cool to setup, just for fun.
<3
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vote: EFHW
Awaclus is making sense to me. I can never read EFHW myself, and I'm a bit lost right now, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Deadline is my birthday (and Glooble's) and we will be out painting the town red (read: doing an escape room and seeing Ant-Man) so I likely won't be around for deadline.
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I can see that scum would want an exile and wouldn't draw attention to themselves by beibgcthe obvious cause of a no exile.
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Deadline is my birthday (and Glooble's) and we will be out painting the town red (read: doing an escape room and seeing Ant-Man) so I likely won't be around for deadline.
Interestingly, Didds, we also share a birthday with Justin Beiber, so maybe that's what he's doing at that fancy resort!
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I definitely would have recruited. If I was SM, I think it would be pretty stupid for me not to have last night, given how the day ended and that there was a high likelihood of being a target again today.
This seems like a strong argument.
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Deadline is my birthday (and Glooble's) and we will be out painting the town red (read: doing an escape room and seeing Ant-Man) so I likely won't be around for deadline.
You two are lucky to get a birthday this year. Mine is squished somewhere between tomorrow and Wednesday. But I'll finally get a real birthday again next year!
I will also be unavailable after 7pm on Wednesday, so I will miss deadline too.
I think I can get behind the arguement against EFHW.
On another note... I know we'd rather find the SM. But if/when we want to look for the traitor, they would almost definitely not be on my wagon D1. They would want to avoid exiling the person most agree is scum.
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I think I can get behind the arguement against EFHW.
Including the part that assumes you're the traitor?
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I would edit Lalight's quote list differently. First I'm taking out all the fluff. Then I add a few comments.
So let's finally do what needs to be done. Joseph reread.
{snip}
I’m here! I had closed my dedicated forum tab in my browser… I have to get back in the habit of checking this again!
Sounds like what lurking scum would say
Everything above is pretty much fluff. But here it gets interesting, given what Awaclus said:
Why is this scumreading of gkrieg fluff? It's the same level of accusation he made against Awaclus and mathdude, just this time it's gkrieg.
Now comes the theory that leads to his Awaclus vote, basically in reaction to joth challenging the discrepancy between his reactions to gkrieg and Awaclus.
Interesting. Why is that something lurking scum would say but
Looks like I don't get e-mail notifications from f.ds at all anymore, it used to be a little random before but I haven't gotten a single notification this whole thread. I guess I have to keep up with it manually.
is not? They're both very similar excuses for low activity, but Joseph called one out and ignored the other. Could it be because one came from a partner? J'accuse
Vote: Joseph2302
Vote: Awaclus then
My theory is that they're both scum, so doesn't matter so much which one we exile first (if we exile them both eventually, obviously godfather first is good)
Post #160 Joseph votes for mathdude 3rd, after Awaclus and LALIGHT
Vote: mathdude
#wagons
Now housekeeping/theory talk:That's L-3 I think?
So we have 2 wagons with L-3 (is correct terminology now meant to be E-3?)
The traitor isn't irrelevant, we stop winning if we find the SM if the SM recruits the traitor. So, if we exile the traitor today, that's great news for us and bad news for scum, which is why it's in the strongman's best interests to stop that from happening if possible.
Agree, this is what I was (badly) trying to say earlier in the thread. Better to kill a scum than a town, even if it's "only" the traitor.
Gkrieg seems like an easy vote, as he hasn't posted much at all
OTOH, seems like an easy misexile target for scum to wagon on, which I think could be the case here
Ergo, I think there's scum on the gkrieg wagon, as whilst exiling lurkers seems to be common, it's an easy out for scum SM to avoid being exiled and losing immediately
None of this seems focused on mathdude. So far we have only the #wagons vote that refers to mathdude.
But here he doesn't sr Awaclus anymore (which also doesn't really clear Awa from suspicion):
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
This also doesn't target math specifically. Didds, Lalight and scola are equally pointed to. But he stays where he already was.
Vote Count 1.4
gkrieg (5): WestCoastDidds, LaLight, mathdude, scolapasta, MiX (L-1)
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, Joseph, Joth
scolapasta (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): gkrieg
So by my previous logic that SM is on this lazy gkrieg wagon, I think SM is in {WCD, LL, math, scola}
And so I'm fine with my vote on math, don't see a compelling reason to change right now
Do you see a compelling reason to change that he ignored?
{snip fluff}
Lalight:
And the last post
I don't expect to be around much, but think my vote is in a good place right now
What's the rule if we don't get a hammer? Presumably no exile (which is bad for town)?
I'm not sure what to draw from it, it's basically nothing. It points to mathdude, actually, probably, surely vote: mathdude
Joseph is not tunneling mathdude here. He sheeps onto the wagon and then doesn't have a reason to get off the wagon because math didn't strike him as towny. 5 of us settled on mathdude for similar reasons. "Actually, probably, surely" seems like overstatement.
vote: Lalight for his case. Also, I'll restate that I found math's argument that he would have recruited convincing.
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"Actually, probably, surely" seems like overstatement.
it was my train of thought. Before my reread I was focused on Awaclus and after I changed my mind to mathdude. Also your vote doesn't count
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Deadline is my birthday (and Glooble's) and we will be out painting the town red (read: doing an escape room and seeing Ant-Man) so I likely won't be around for deadline.
Interestingly, Didds, we also share a birthday with Justin Beiber, so maybe that's what he's doing at that fancy resort!
He’s going to the fancy resort in the Bahamas for his birthday. It’s absurd that I know this.
Also, I’m back now so I’ll get caught up!
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"Actually, probably, surely" seems like overstatement.
it was my train of thought. Before my reread I was focused on Awaclus and after I changed my mind to mathdude. Also your vote doesn't count
I know. I'm staying on MiX.
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I’m trying to read along and get caught up.
Gkrieg still seems scarce? Or no?
MiX didn’t know it wasn’t plurality? That seems all kinds of out of character. But also, if he was scum he’d have shown up to hammer, maybe?
One more page to go! That will have to wait for the morning, though
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I think I can get behind the arguement against EFHW.
Including the part that assumes you're the traitor?
Sure, why not?
No, just the opportunistic jump on anything that comes up on anyone.
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I’m trying to read along and get caught up.
Gkrieg still seems scarce? Or no?
MiX didn’t know it wasn’t plurality? That seems all kinds of out of character. But also, if he was scum he’d have shown up to hammer, maybe?
One more page to go! That will have to wait for the morning, though
Yes, gk still seems very scarce.
And I agree MiX not knowing setup is out of character for him. A few possibilities:
1. He's scum protecting me as traitor (I know this isn't right)
2. He's scum, trying to frame me as traitor, based on point 1
3. He's traitor and thought I was his partner so didn't vote me out
4. He's a clueless townie who was too lazy to look at setup
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I think I can get behind the arguement against EFHW.
Including the part that assumes you're the traitor?
Sure, why not?
No, just the opportunistic jump on anything that comes up on anyone.
I hope you saw my response to this.
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Vote: gkrieg
I feel like I might have been fooled by strategic absence before. Galzria, maybe? At this point it’s starting to feel calculated.
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@MiX How did you end up not voting towards getting an exile? You were there.
I forgot it wasn't plurality.
Wasn't this discussed pretty heavily?
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I’m checking in, but I’m a little bit surprised that there is so little activity.
Weekends gonna weekend.
Also, we don’t have a ton to analyze. I suppose a Joseph reread would not be out of order.
Unfortunately with no flip, this is D1 try 2.
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I’m checking in, but I’m a little bit surprised that there is so little activity.
Weekends gonna weekend.
True fact. I’m at this fancy resort this weekend, we saw Justin Bieber this morning before he went to play golf and then Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker at dinner, which is pretty disappointing as far as celebratory sightings go. Next weekend the Obama are coming to visit. I’d be way more swoony about seeing them.
Oh wow, that is fancy. Sounds like fun!
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Fyi, work Korea part is over, so now have less time for this until i get back Tuesday.
I am trying to keep up reading posts, but won't get a chance to really respond to anything until then.
Hope you're managing to keep up with the reading still!
I do not have time to reread anything this weekend... between marking/planning for school and family, life is busy.
Even if I were to just want to sheep someone's vote, I'm not sure who I would feel safe doing that to. I hope we see a little more from everyone by Monday or so.
Do you have any town reads?
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum....
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
MiX?
My initial rwaction is actually Awaclus. vote: Awaclus
This is from someone who feels safely not under suspicion? Why Awaclus first?
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basically Joseph voted for math and then stayed in there for the whole day. It would probably be a good idea to exile math.
Imagine if this is how this game would work, we just exile the most suspicious person and they are scum and we win. Woud be instant classic
Do you think Joseph tends to tunnel and would've been voting for math again today? I think if math were scum, he goes for Awaclus (who is known to tunnel extremely hard).
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Awaclus has some good arguments, but they aren't correct.
Also, I didn't (only) vote MiX for not voting at deadline. I mostly voted him for coming out of the gate at the beginning of the day with a theory about why math is scum - and it was a theory that didn't take two very real possibilities into consideration: that math would likely know and consider how it looks to nk Joseph, and that someone could have killed Joseph in order to frame math.
MiX is also confident and gutsy enough to go solo without the traitor.
It's true I've been shooting down theories. But I think it's scummy to put forward poorly reasoned or otherwise suspect cases, so I call them out when I see them.
Why would MiX "forget" it wasn't plurality exile? I would expect MiX to be double checking that when it's clear there is about to be a no-exile. He tends be pretty detail oriented iirc.
Not a big fan of this defense. Awaclus clearly made 3 points and then a fourth, minor point. EFHW decides to mainly focus on the minor point instead of the bulk of the case.
vote: EFHW
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It's not clear there's going to be a no exile if you think it's plurality right?
That was me, in the deadline.
Also I'm not even sure it's alignment indicative, scum!me wouldn't pass the chance to hammer math, I generally prefer to be in situations I have already planned for, and I would have planned for no day skips. Although both alignments can forget plurality equally, so I'm not gonna claim some townpoints there.
I really want to agree with Awaclus but I can't see myself voting EFHW before math if I follow it. Also I feel like it makes the game look bigger than what it is: this is basically a revival of f.ds mafia, somewhat, people aren't generally active and stuff. Scum doesn't need to think too hard, nor would I expect them to always think well. I know I wouldn't.
This confuses me. Why would you vote math before EFHW, if the case is that EFHW is SM and math is traitor? We outright win if we exile EFHW.
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Deadline is my birthday (and Glooble's) and we will be out painting the town red (read: doing an escape room and seeing Ant-Man) so I likely won't be around for deadline.
You two are lucky to get a birthday this year. Mine is squished somewhere between tomorrow and Wednesday. But I'll finally get a real birthday again next year!
I will also be unavailable after 7pm on Wednesday, so I will miss deadline too.
I think I can get behind the arguement against EFHW.
On another note... I know we'd rather find the SM. But if/when we want to look for the traitor, they would almost definitely not be on my wagon D1. They would want to avoid exiling the person most agree is scum.
Wow, lots of birthdays (or not quite birthdays)!
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Gkrieg still seems scarce? Or no?
Very scarce. Been very busy with work, which is usually where I do forum mafia...
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I’m trying to read along and get caught up.
Gkrieg still seems scarce? Or no?
MiX didn’t know it wasn’t plurality? That seems all kinds of out of character. But also, if he was scum he’d have shown up to hammer, maybe?
One more page to go! That will have to wait for the morning, though
Yes, gk still seems very scarce.
And I agree MiX not knowing setup is out of character for him. A few possibilities:
1. He's scum protecting me as traitor (I know this isn't right)
2. He's scum, trying to frame me as traitor, based on point 1
3. He's traitor and thought I was his partner so didn't vote me out
4. He's a clueless townie who was too lazy to look at setup
2 seems very unlikely, seeing as it really requires MiX to be dead for us to look at you as traitor.
3 could be true. Traitor also does not want exiles, even more than SM.
I guess it comes down to whether town!MiX really forgets that it isn't plurality.
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Oh does no plurality mean that if math doesn't get enough votes he doesn't die.
Does that mean me not voting mattered.
Oh no. Now the game is hard.
Not sure why he wouldn't just vote anyway.
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Vote Count 2.3
EFHW (3): Awaclus, Joth, gkrieg
mathdude(2): MiX, LaLight
MiX (1): EFHW
gkrieg (1): WCD
Not Voting (2): scolapasta, mathdude
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT. That is in just over a Day from now!!!
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Oh does no plurality mean that if math doesn't get enough votes he doesn't die.
Does that mean me not voting mattered.
Oh no. Now the game is hard.
Not sure why he wouldn't just vote anyway.
Because it's cool to go "oh sweet gkrieg came in, he's town, math is being voted, I can go back to do what I was doing before" instead of hammering slightly early and missing out on someone's post because I ended the day too early.
You have to understand, I haven't played without plurality since...the last time we played without plurality. And I have played other mafia games since.
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It's not clear there's going to be a no exile if you think it's plurality right?
That was me, in the deadline.
Also I'm not even sure it's alignment indicative, scum!me wouldn't pass the chance to hammer math, I generally prefer to be in situations I have already planned for, and I would have planned for no day skips. Although both alignments can forget plurality equally, so I'm not gonna claim some townpoints there.
I really want to agree with Awaclus but I can't see myself voting EFHW before math if I follow it. Also I feel like it makes the game look bigger than what it is: this is basically a revival of f.ds mafia, somewhat, people aren't generally active and stuff. Scum doesn't need to think too hard, nor would I expect them to always think well. I know I wouldn't.
This confuses me. Why would you vote math before EFHW, if the case is that EFHW is SM and math is traitor? We outright win if we exile EFHW.
Winning is cool and all but I prefer to maximize scum death over winning. EFHW's only scum if math is, so math's a better pick.
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Winning is cool and all but I prefer
wtf
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And I have played other mafia games since.
What?! The madness!
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I think we are going to need for Swowl to start narrating our game like Alan Cumming in new The Traitor game. (This is on Peacock, and is just live action mafia with minor celebrities). He wears a sweet kilt and tartan, and has a delicious accent.
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Winning is cool and all but I prefer
wtf
ikr
It's less silly if you consider the possibility of you being wrong.
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Fyi, work Korea part is over, so now have less time for this until i get back Tuesday.
I am trying to keep up reading posts, but won't get a chance to really respond to anything until then.
Hope you're managing to keep up with the reading still!
I do not have time to reread anything this weekend... between marking/planning for school and family, life is busy.
Even if I were to just want to sheep someone's vote, I'm not sure who I would feel safe doing that to. I hope we see a little more from everyone by Monday or so.
Do you have any town reads?
At this point, there's no one I'd say I trust enough to "ride or die" this game. I find myself usually more skeptical than trusting.
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Also, my gut is telling me to
vote: MiX
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I’m just checking in before my absence, but I think I like my vote where it is.
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Sorry, difficult week. I liked Awaclus's argument that the SM might not protect a traitor who seems about to be exiled. It's just not me. I think it's MiX. gkrieg asked why not vote anyway, and that is a good question. He might not vote to try to buy time to decide what to do.
On a different scum narrative, I hate to say this because he's been a helpful contributor, but Awaclus is behaving differently from usual, and the last time that happened he was scum.
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On a different scum narrative, I hate to say this because he's been a helpful contributor, but Awaclus is behaving differently from usual, and the last time that happened he was scum.
Someone says this every game.
"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:
Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember. Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful? If not, I’d lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.
I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.
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Okay I am completely sold on the EFHW/math team. Count me in to vote them at deadline.
I still prefer math though.
Awaclus will you be around for deadline?
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Is the deadline in about 4-5 hours? (almost 5)
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Yeah Awaclus is… frank. A dry and sometimes sharp wit, and not prone to elaboration. Long ago he used to be unhelpful but it hasn’t been the case in a while.
And even then it was more of a faustian “playing it close to the vest” unhelpfulness rather than outright obstinancy.
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I think I would have recruited if I were scum....
I do agree that points to someone who feels pretty safely not under suspicion, or someone who's just gutsy AF.
MiX?
My initial rwaction is actually Awaclus. vote: Awaclus
This is from someone who feels safely not under suspicion? Why Awaclus first?
Awaclus is gutsy enough to forgo recruiting in favor of killing
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i might be here for deadline. i don't really want to vote EFHW, but will for exile
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cab someone please compile a VC?
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Is the deadline in about 4-5 hours? (almost 5)
I believe "FT" (forum time) is EST, IIRC. So 8:35pm is about 10 hours from now.
Right now, I'd be happy to vote MiX, EFHW, or Awaclus. I'd prefer my vote to stay where it is, but will switch to either of the others to get an exile. (I'll likely be unavailable for the 2 hours before and including deadline - so my final vote will likely be cast around 6:30pm).
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Okay I am completely sold on the EFHW/math team. Count me in to vote them at deadline.
I still prefer math though.
Awaclus will you be around for deadline?
Please just vote now. Why wait for a deadline?
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OK, back from Korea! What a trip. (i can type a trip report up if people are interested in a later post)
Need to re reread, but right now my top scum reads are EFHW are MiX.
Will vote for one of those by 5pm forum time, and then hope to stay awake long enough to be around for deadline.
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Okay I am completely sold on the EFHW/math team. Count me in to vote them at deadline.
I still prefer math though.
Awaclus will you be around for deadline?
Please just vote now. Why wait for a deadline?
You're right, better to put the vote in now (and I can change it later). Of the two, I prefer:
Vote: EFHW
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I think that's X-1.
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Okay I am completely sold on the EFHW/math team. Count me in to vote them at deadline.
I still prefer math though.
Awaclus will you be around for deadline?
Please just vote now. Why wait for a deadline?
I am voting, for mathdude.
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You guys are wrong about me. I've been open about my opinions and taken stands. I made cases, of varying value, and have been pro-town in my priorities. I tried to get an exile Day 1. I made excellent arguments against the mathdude case today, which have somehow not been responded to. Perhaps some of you would read my post on Lalight's case and see how the case on math doesn't hold up. It's anti-town to let a bad case go to exile.
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The case for MiX as SM is strong. It is only weakened by his saying he's been playing plurality so long he forgot that majority was a thing. That isn't even a strong argument, because he still could have voted. By not voting he was avoiding taking a stand - not having a helpful vote down at EoD is scummy. I think he hesitated then because he hadn't quite decided to go with the bus on math. Now he has decided, and comes out of the gate prepared with an argument based on the nk choice.
I don't think math would have chosen to nk Joseph. I don't think Joseph was any kind of actual threat to mathdude. I think MiX killed Joseph and came up with this theory to frame math and take the game on as SK facing town with no powers.
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On a different scum narrative, I hate to say this because he's been a helpful contributor, but Awaclus is behaving differently from usual, and the last time that happened he was scum.
Someone says this every game.
"Awaclus is being more helpful than usual" has been a meme for at least three years now:
Awaclus has been decidedly less painfully obstinate than I remember. Has he changed (I know I keep asking this but I think it matters) to be more open and helpful? If not, I’d lean more scum on him, since the one constant for Awaclus was that he would never do anything for anyone else, no matter what, and would always be completely convinced he was right.
I have always been helpful, there's nothing unusual about that.
Does this usually come from town or scum? Asking you because you might have caught onto a pattern.
The case for MiX as SM is strong. It is only weakened by his saying he's been playing plurality so long he forgot that majority was a thing. That isn't even a strong argument, because he still could have voted. By not voting he was avoiding taking a stand - not having a helpful vote down at EoD is scummy. I think he hesitated then because he hadn't quite decided to go with the bus on math. Now he has decided, and comes out of the gate prepared with an argument based on the nk choice.
I don't think math would have chosen to nk Joseph. I don't think Joseph was any kind of actual threat to mathdude. I think MiX killed Joseph and came up with this theory to frame math and take the game on as SK facing town with no powers.
I agree with this case being strong, in so far as I think it's townie to put this case forward, but also I had already said this D1, basically.
You guys are wrong about me. I've been open about my opinions and taken stands. I made cases, of varying value, and have been pro-town in my priorities. I tried to get an exile Day 1. I made excellent arguments against the mathdude case today, which have somehow not been responded to. Perhaps some of you would read my post on Lalight's case and see how the case on math doesn't hold up. It's anti-town to let a bad case go to exile.
Your anti-case is pretty good, and I can see LaLight's reaching a lot, but:
1. Reaching's townie in this game state. Similarly, shooting down cases is scummy. Weird, isn't it, how telling the truth is bad.
2. It doesn't make math townie. Math could've followed LaLight's logic anyway.
3. Math can still be SM/traitor regardless.
4. I'm townreading gkrieg, awaclus and lalight, and now almost townreading you, and once you cut scola from being the exile today for being afk (if you have a reason not to give him a D2 pass let me know) there's only like 3 people left so why not math.
5. The elephant in the room: math should've died yesterday, so might as well kill him today. Yes I know that makes me scummy, but I'm already SM in your eyes so shrug.
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You guys are wrong about me.
I don't think we are.
I think he hesitated then because he hadn't quite decided to go with the bus on math.
You think that's a strong case?
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vote: EFHW am I on time?
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Does this usually come from town or scum? Asking you because you might have caught onto a pattern.
Not that I have noticed. I know it has come from town at least in some cases, such as when I have actually been scum myself, but I have also gotten those comments as town and obviously then I don't know the alignment of whoever's saying it in the moment, which makes it more difficult to notice a pattern.
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Lalight should have let me claim. I'm the jailkeeper.
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You guys are wrong about me.
I don't think we are.
I think he hesitated then because he hadn't quite decided to go with the bus on math.
You think that's a strong case?
You excerpt one line from a paragraph case and then say it's weak? Whatever. You guys messed up.
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Well, that's a bummer if true.
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Well, that's a bummer if true.
EFHW doesn't seem the type to troll us here.
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Lalight should have let me claim. I'm the jailkeeper.
Should've claimed earlier, you were at X-1 for a while.
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Well. Other than I'm scum, any last thoughts, EFHW?
I would also ask everyone else but I guess that would help scum.
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THREAD LOCKED
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Final D2 vote count to come in a few when Swowl can log on.
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Vote Count 2.3
EFHW (5): Awaclus, Joth, gkrieg, scolapasta, LaLight
MiX (2): EFHW, Mathdude
mathdude (1): MiX
gkrieg (1): WCD
Not Voting (0):
With 9 Alive it took 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends now. Night 2 starts now, and ends Friday March 3rd at 8:15pm Forum Time.
EFHW has been Exiled.
They were the Town JailKeeper.
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We apologize for the delay.
No one has died at night.
Day 3 starts now.
Thread unlocked.
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welp, sorry. I was sure deadline is very soon so I hammered.
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Ok. Makes sense to recruit once the JK is gone. So now this is basically a vanilla game. No claims, no powers, just two mafia and 6 town.
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Vote: math
Vote: joth
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Awaclus has some good arguments, but they aren't correct.
Damn. I've got to admit to my mistake here: this defense from EFHW was weird, I realized it was weird, and instead of thinking through the reasons why that might have been like I should have, I just kept pushing the case in hopes of getting more info out of it and getting more clarity to the situation that way. But I guess at least the situation is pretty clear now!
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vote: math
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Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
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I think the best idea is still
Vote: gkrieg
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vote: Lalight
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Yeah I'm going to vote: LaLight too.
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I mean, that’s got to be a too-scummy-to-be-scum situation right?
I’m sort of feeling vote: Awaclus
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Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
well, there was a "deadline is in 5 hours" post, then a lot of hours passed, I came into the game and saw that there's still a no-exile situation, so i hammered.
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that's it basically
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I mean, that’s got to be a too-scummy-to-be-scum situation right?
I’m sort of feeling vote: Awaclus
I don't think so. I guess I just feel like he's being honest this game. And if you wanna kill people for having bad reads, vote out mathdude first to see if he was completely wrong, right?
Similarly I still townread Lalight, the hammer is not scummy at all.
Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
Because of said townread I need to scumread Didds now...yay?
But basically my PoE is mathdude and joth and I don't care which flips first.
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Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
well, there was a "deadline is in 5 hours" post, then a lot of hours passed, I came into the game and saw that there's still a no-exile situation, so i hammered.
You mean this "deadline is in 5 hours" post, which wasn't a statement, but a question. Then it was clearly answered?
Is the deadline in about 4-5 hours? (almost 5)
I believe "FT" (forum time) is EST, IIRC. So 8:35pm is about 10 hours from now.
Right now, I'd be happy to vote MiX, EFHW, or Awaclus. I'd prefer my vote to stay where it is, but will switch to either of the others to get an exile. (I'll likely be unavailable for the 2 hours before and including deadline - so my final vote will likely be cast around 6:30pm).
It's not like there were 4 pages of new posts for you to read either. So do you want to still stick with your excuse? Or do you want to admit you didn't read people's posts? Or do you want to admit you want to post the standard "intent to hammer" post first? Was it just in your best interest to end the day and the discussion?
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Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
well, there was a "deadline is in 5 hours" post, then a lot of hours passed, I came into the game and saw that there's still a no-exile situation, so i hammered.
Uhmmm….. I’m not sure how you get from
Vote Count 2.3
EFHW (3): Awaclus, Joth, gkrieg
mathdude(2): MiX, LaLight
MiX (1): EFHW
gkrieg (1): WCD
Not Voting (2): scolapasta, mathdude
With 9 Alive it takes 5 to Exile.
Day 2 ends Wednesday, March 1st at 8:35pm FT. That is in just over a Day from now!!!
To Awaclus asking about the deadline, and then being answered (that mathdude just explained, thanks dude!) and then what was, in fact, a quick hammer.
I still think gkrieg is the scummiest (telling people to just vote already), but this really is a full seven hours early, and completely out of the blue.
vote: EFHW am I on time?
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Similarly I still townread Lalight, the hammer is not scummy at all.
Because of said townread I need to scumread Didds now...yay?
But basically my PoE is mathdude and joth and I don't care which flips first.
Take a look at gkrieg yesterday.
I was more wary of LL than scumreading him, but his explanation is not making me that go away.
I get math, but Joth? Really?
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Wow gkrieg looks awful, you're right.
I'm voting joth because he just voted EFHW and did nothing else.
I reread joth right now and I guess I see why you question my scumread, but...there's nothing there either. At least gkrieg townslipped.
I think I just want to flip mathdude and approach the game after knowing his alignment.
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Wow gkrieg looks awful, you're right.
I'm voting joth because he just voted EFHW and did nothing else.
I reread joth right now and I guess I see why you question my scumread, but...there's nothing there either. At least gkrieg townslipped.
I think I just want to flip mathdude and approach the game after knowing his alignment.
I see Joth and LL doing the same amount, but Joth gave us some warning because birthday.
I do not disagree about Math. I just think it’s more likely Math and gkrieg.
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Wow - jet lag from Korea is tougher than I expected! Anyway, finally back to the game:
Why is no one voting:
Vote: No exile
With no PRs seems like the right choice for today, no?
That way we have a 2 in 7 shot tomorrow instead of a 2 in 8*? And we get info from who scum targets tonight.
I don't see any good reason to wait until tomorrow for this.
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Wow - jet lag from Korea is tougher than I expected! Anyway, finally back to the game:
Why is no one voting:
Vote: No exile
With no PRs seems like the right choice for today, no?
That way we have a 2 in 7 shot tomorrow instead of a 2 in 8*? And we get info from who scum targets tonight.
I don't see any good reason to wait until tomorrow for this.
The numbers do seem to indicate that we shouldn't exile.
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Oh, good point. We should not exile. Vote: no exile
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Sure we can keep the momentum (or not lose it more) and skip today immediately.
Vote: no exile
Is that how you vote for no exile? I'll assume it is.
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Vote: no exile
I believe that's E-1? (or is it NE-1... no exile minus 1?)
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Fair enough
Vote: no exile
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THREAD LOCKED
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Vote Count 3.ONLY
No Exile: (5): scolapasta, Awaclus, MiX, mathdude, WCD
Awaclus (1): Joth
Not Voting (2): LaLight, gkrieg
With 8 Alive it took 5 to Exile (or not Exile, in this case).
Day 3 ends now. Night 3 starts now, and ends Tuesday, March 7th at 6:35pm Forum Time.
No one was Exiled today.
Please submit Night Actions within 36 hours.
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Good gravy, people! I didn’t even have time to check in on Wednesday before it was just done.
I’m super wary of LL now because that hammer seemed to me to come out of nowhere.
well, there was a "deadline is in 5 hours" post, then a lot of hours passed, I came into the game and saw that there's still a no-exile situation, so i hammered.
You mean this "deadline is in 5 hours" post, which wasn't a statement, but a question. Then it was clearly answered?
Is the deadline in about 4-5 hours? (almost 5)
I believe "FT" (forum time) is EST, IIRC. So 8:35pm is about 10 hours from now.
Right now, I'd be happy to vote MiX, EFHW, or Awaclus. I'd prefer my vote to stay where it is, but will switch to either of the others to get an exile. (I'll likely be unavailable for the 2 hours before and including deadline - so my final vote will likely be cast around 6:30pm).
It's not like there were 4 pages of new posts for you to read either. So do you want to still stick with your excuse? Or do you want to admit you didn't read people's posts? Or do you want to admit you want to post the standard "intent to hammer" post first? Was it just in your best interest to end the day and the discussion?
I've seen the "5 hours" post, came back in a long time, didn't read thorougly because thought that I don't have a lot of time and hammered. I don't know what to tell you, this is what happened.
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uh-oh, sorry
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First and only warning that you may not post when the thread is locked.
Further infractions will result in MOD Kill.
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Clarification that is now changed in the original post.
Deadline was not specified AM vs PM.
It is 6:35pm Forum time.
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Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (7): gkrieg, scolapasta, Awaclus, MiX, mathdude, WCD, Joth
With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 4 starts now and ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.
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First and only warning that you may not post when the thread is locked.
Further infractions will result in MOD Kill.
Damn, we should have exiled someone normally and then made LaLight post in the locked thread until he got modkilled.
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Well, except I guess in this case we should have had someone else get themselves modkilled instead, given that getting rid of LaLight was apparently top priority for scum.
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Anyway, on a more serious note, having reread LaLight, vote: math seems sensible.
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Boo scum's killing my favorite towread :(
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Anyway, on a more serious note, having reread LaLight, vote: math seems sensible.
And yet, still the wrong choice.
Are you trying to get the "easy kill" on me, so you can move on to Ex-LO tomorrow? I'm not scum. Let's move on.
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Are you trying to get the "easy kill" on me, so you can move on to Ex-LO tomorrow?
No, it's just that the case I made against an EFHW/you team was a good case and a lot of it still applies to you with someone else being the SM, and now that it's just a vanilla game, there's no benefit to trying to get your partner exiled before you. Unless you have any convincing arguments why you aren't scum instead of just throwing accusations at everyone who votes for you.
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In fact there are new arguments for why you're scum in addition to the old ones. But you don't need to know what they are.
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Oh, LaLi! That’s a bummer.
I’m going to hold off on voting because I’d actually like to have a full day, but none of my sense of things has changed from yesterday. And it looks like Awaclus is in that same boat, too.
Today is my long day so I’ll be scarce.
Our spring break break starts on Monday and I am slumping toward the finish. Must… make….it….to….Monday…..
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I’m going to hold off on voting because I’d actually like to have a full day, but none of my sense of things has changed from yesterday. And it looks like Awaclus is in that same boat, too.
I mean, my favorite exile got NK'd, it'd be surprising if I wasn't.
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Wait, I misread that, I didn't see the "none of".
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
Mix, can you explain how you got from No Exile to "skip immediately":
Sure we can keep the momentum (or not lose it more) and skip today immediately.
Vote: no exile
Is that how you vote for no exile? I'll assume it is.
If Awaclus is correct about mathdude as traitor, could this be a signal to join the vote? (math was X-1) or to WCD who hammered?
I don't know, just feels anti town that the No exile vote went so quick.
I'm also suspecting MiX, being very vocal about Lalight being towny and then Lalight is the NK?
Vote: MiX
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
We can't do anything during the night, scum can, so any information we could have generated by discussing yesterday instead of today would have strictly benefited scum.
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
We can't do anything during the night, scum can, so any information we could have generated by discussing yesterday instead of today would have strictly benefited scum.
I get your point and if there were any PRs I would agree.
But in a game with only vanilla roles, I don't think it really matters which of us scum target from a "who's left" perspective, while evaluating the NK as a reaction to that discussion could be.
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
We can't do anything during the night, scum can, so any information we could have generated by discussing yesterday instead of today would have strictly benefited scum.
I get your point and if there were any PRs I would agree.
But in a game with only vanilla roles, I don't think it really matters which of us scum target from a "who's left" perspective, while evaluating the NK as a reaction to that discussion could be.
No, it would have strictly benefited scum. If scum didn't think the info was more valuable to them than the info from evaluating their reaction is to us, they would simply ignore the info. The only way it makes any difference is if scum thinks it benefits them, in which case it almost certainly does, and because this is a zero-sum game, it means it hurts us.
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
Mix, can you explain how you got from No Exile to "skip immediately":
Sure we can keep the momentum (or not lose it more) and skip today immediately.
Vote: no exile
Is that how you vote for no exile? I'll assume it is.
If Awaclus is correct about mathdude as traitor, could this be a signal to join the vote? (math was X-1) or to WCD who hammered?
I don't know, just feels anti town that the No exile vote went so quick.
I'm also suspecting MiX, being very vocal about Lalight being towny and then Lalight is the NK?
Vote: MiX
I was going to defend myself against this because why not, and waiting for gkrieg to post is unrealistic at this point. But then I thought this was so lazy I should only react to this with a vote. However, I read this again, now correctly:
Mix, can you explain how you got from No Exile to "skip immediately":
What does this mean? How is no exile not skipping immediately? How is there a process between voting no exile and skipping the day quickly?
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
We can't do anything during the night, scum can, so any information we could have generated by discussing yesterday instead of today would have strictly benefited scum.
I get your point and if there were any PRs I would agree.
But in a game with only vanilla roles, I don't think it really matters which of us scum target from a "who's left" perspective, while evaluating the NK as a reaction to that discussion could be.
Wait why are you saying this you literally voted no exile yesterday and made the complete opposite argument.
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
Mix, can you explain how you got from No Exile to "skip immediately":
Sure we can keep the momentum (or not lose it more) and skip today immediately.
Vote: no exile
Is that how you vote for no exile? I'll assume it is.
If Awaclus is correct about mathdude as traitor, could this be a signal to join the vote? (math was X-1) or to WCD who hammered?
I don't know, just feels anti town that the No exile vote went so quick.
I'm also suspecting MiX, being very vocal about Lalight being towny and then Lalight is the NK?
Vote: MiX
I was going to defend myself against this because why not, and waiting for gkrieg to post is unrealistic at this point. But then I thought this was so lazy I should only react to this with a vote. However, I read this again, now correctly:
Mix, can you explain how you got from No Exile to "skip immediately":
What does this mean? How is no exile not skipping immediately? How is there a process between voting no exile and skipping the day quickly?
Voting No exile just means not exiling someone that day - it doesn't have to happen immediately, we could've still discussed things for a few more real world days. As you see from above, Awaclus thinks that only helps scum; I think in a vanilla game like we are now, it could've helped town as well.
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Does anyone think yesterday ending so quickly was weird? I mean, No exile was the right thing to do, but why not allow time for discussion?
We can't do anything during the night, scum can, so any information we could have generated by discussing yesterday instead of today would have strictly benefited scum.
I get your point and if there were any PRs I would agree.
But in a game with only vanilla roles, I don't think it really matters which of us scum target from a "who's left" perspective, while evaluating the NK as a reaction to that discussion could be.
Wait why are you saying this you literally voted no exile yesterday and made the complete opposite argument.
Not sure where you get that I made an opposite argument?
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I guess I misinterpreted your D3 post...
Basically people don't vote no exile when you want a discussion because voting no exile means you don't want a discussion. So by voting no exile I assumed you didn't want a discussion. You even said things like "why wait until tomorrow" and "it's clearly the best vote".
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I think in a vanilla game like we are now, it could've helped town as well.
There is literally not even a hypothetical way in which it could have helped town without scum letting it happen.
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My thinking is that the odd number benefits town, and it eliminates the risk of a missexile. I recognize that we could have possibly eliminated a baddie, but we’d have needed five to exile and with two baddies that doesn’t seem likely. I can see why scum would be anti-no exile but I’m not sure why town would be.
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I guess I misinterpreted your D3 post...
Basically people don't vote no exile when you want a discussion because voting no exile means you don't want a discussion. So by voting no exile I assumed you didn't want a discussion. You even said things like "why wait until tomorrow" and "it's clearly the best vote".
OK - I get that, and it sounds like that's also where Awaclus is coming from. My no exile vote wasn't a "I don't want more discussion", I just wanted to improve our odds for today's exile and saw lots of votes flying by. My "tomorrow" was meant to mean the game's "tomorrow", not real world tomorrow.
But I hear what you and Awaclus are saying. I'm still not sure I agree, but I'll have to meditate on that a little more. The "I want to solve this game" side of me feels I could've used that info to improve my scum reads - and I do stand by my "I don't really think it matters any more who scum NK" argument.
I'm happy to retract my vote for now:
Unvote
Let me ask something else then: how come no one else suggested no exile until I did?
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Let me ask something else then: how come no one else suggested no exile until I did?
I'm just not used to thinking about it until MeLo, since with PRs in the game, it's generally good to delay it as long as possible in case a night kill fails or something.
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Vote Count 4.1
Mathdude (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (6): gkrieg, scolapasta, MiX, mathdude, WCD, Joth
With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 4 starts now and ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.
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Sorry for the lack of posts. I'll try to respond to a couple things by tonight.
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I’m feeling kind of stymied by the lack of anything from anyone.
Swowl, if they haven’t checked in when you do a VC, will you please prod Joth and gkrieg?
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You can reread mathdude and vote him, that would be nice. Alternatively you can read Awaclus and see if he's town or scum. I think that's the two main questions this game.
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Also I am townlocking Didds for that post. If you have a problem, please present me a bad Didds post.
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I did the reread! I’m fully on board with voting for Math or gkrieg. I’m less suspicious of Awaclus, Scola, and you. No idea about Joth.
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Alternatively you can read Awaclus and see if he's town or scum.
I just re-read his role QT and came to the conclusion that he's town.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
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I just realized I forgot about this game because of the quick succession nights. Will catch up tomorrow.
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Anyway, on a more serious note, having reread LaLight, vote: math seems sensible.
This seems very opportunistic, given my previous post. Would scum be so bold as to immediately throw this on the table? Ordinarily, I expect scum would wait for someone else to raise the issue, then they would support it. But I think Awaclus believes he's sufficiently out-of-the-radar (and also just bold enough anyway) that he could get away with this start-of-day prompt even if he is scum.
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Are you trying to get the "easy kill" on me, so you can move on to Ex-LO tomorrow?
No, it's just that the case I made against an EFHW/you team was a good case and a lot of it still applies to you with someone else being the SM, and now that it's just a vanilla game, there's no benefit to trying to get your partner exiled before you. Unless you have any convincing arguments why you aren't scum instead of just throwing accusations at everyone who votes for you.
I have no convincing arguments for why I am NOT scum. I know just as little in this game as basically everyone else. I have thrown out some thoughts and some votes. I have poked and prodded. And I have admitted that I have no idea who to target in this game. I'm terrible at vanilla games because I can't read any of you at all.
So if that makes me scummy, then vote me out. Then the record can finally show you that your tunneling is wrong.
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I think in a vanilla game like we are now, it could've helped town as well.
There is literally not even a hypothetical way in which it could have helped town without scum letting it happen.
Prolonging yesterday's discussions could have helped town. I agree, it also could have helped scum. But I think you're completely wrong in saying there was no way it could have helped town.
Consider one case - what if we all posted a scum-to-chum list? Yes, scum would then have all that info and might make a better night choice. But then their night choice becomes WIFOM, depending on whether they kill a strong town-read, or someone who's tunneling one of them, or someone who's tunneling a townie to frame them, or something else. But on the other hand, we would know exactly what LL's scum-to-chum list is today. We would even be able to compare yesterday's lists to how any of them might change today.
Now I'm not saying that giving those lists would have been a good choice yesterday. I'm just saying that putting information into public has the ability to help town, even if it may help scum in some way as well.
Are you just being stubborn Awaclus? Or are you intentionally trying to direct this game in a way that best benefits you and your scum-buddy?
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My thinking is that the odd number benefits town, and it eliminates the risk of a missexile. I recognize that we could have possibly eliminated a baddie, but we’d have needed five to exile and with two baddies that doesn’t seem likely. I can see why scum would be anti-no exile but I’m not sure why town would be.
In a purely vanilla game, the numbers did definitely agree with a "no exile". But whether it should have happened yesterday or today, I'm now starting to question the idea.
Yesterday would have been harder to exile a scum. We would have needed 5 of 8 votes... which is 5 of the 6 townies. Today, we need 4 of 7 votes (which is 4 of 5 townies). We still need all town except one... but we (each individual townie) needs to get 3 others to agree with us in voting today, where yesterday we needed 4 others to agree. So by this perspective, getting back to an odd number quickly does seem helpful.
But what if we had prolonged the day yesterday, rather than cutting it short? And what if we actually did try to get an exile off yesterday, rather than jumping straight to "no exile"? Bounce ideas back and forth. Try a wagon or two. See where people are voting. See if some people are eager to jump on any wagon or hesitant. And if we didn't get anywhere, then near the actual end of day, we could swing back to "no exile". Then today, we would have all kinds more information to analyze. But we're still sticking (at least mildly, at the moment) to the initial D1 thoughts of "let's vote out mathdude".
All this being said, I don't think any of this points back to yesterday to say a "quick-hammer" of no exile is scummy. I think it was general consensus that we want to get back to an odd number of players in a vanilla game. (In hind sight now, and especially for any future vanilla games, I think this is definitely something to consider though - don't just quickly go "no exile"!)
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Theory is cool how about you make a scum to chum list so we can look at it after we exile you.
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I’m feeling kind of stymied by the lack of anything from anyone.
Swowl, if they haven’t checked in when you do a VC, will you please prod Joth and gkrieg?
I think we all have been stymied by this. And yesterday's quick end didn't help, as I've just explained. It cut off any discussions that could have happened.
Also I am townlocking Didds for that post. If you have a problem, please present me a bad Didds post.
That post is enough to townlock Didds for you? Wow, you're easy to convince! Didds posted something that we were all thinking, and was just the first to put it into words.
However, that still doesn't mean I can present you with a "bad Didds post".
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You can reread mathdude and vote him, that would be nice. Alternatively you can read Awaclus and see if he's town or scum. I think that's the two main questions this game.
There... now you and others have more to "reread". I've finally posted a few thoughts.
Alternatively you can read Awaclus and see if he's town or scum.
I just re-read his role QT and came to the conclusion that he's town.
You sure are clever. If only we could take your word on this.
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Theory is cool how about you make a scum to chum list so we can look at it after we exile you.
My list alone will probably be pretty useless. I admit I have very weak reads this game. On top of that, I know I will have a slightly biased scum-read towards those who target me the most (I always do).
I assume it would be better to do this closer to the deadline, rather than this early in the day. Let's let gk and joth actually contribute to this day - otherwise their places in the list will be quite meaningless (if they were even put in the list). But if I am up for exile, I trust someone would post an intent-to-hammer, and give time for me to post such a list, rather than a quick-hammer (which would be very scummy).
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
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I haven't had time for a reread and may not.
Town is small enough now that a towncore approach appeals.
Right now I'm strongly townreading MiX and Didds. Awaclus too, though I'm a bit more wary there. That leaves scum somewhere in scola, gkrieg, or mathdude. I definitely get the sense that gkrieg and mathdude are both people who've had multiple wagons on them that didn't stick, which normally would be scummy, but given the nature of this game it may not be (since there was effectively 1 scum the first couple days).
I think it's a little odd that the day opening post didn't actual identify the night's victim. Can we get confirmation that LaLight was killed by scum rather than modkilled?
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
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Awaclus has some good arguments, but they aren't correct.
Damn. I've got to admit to my mistake here: this defense from EFHW was weird, I realized it was weird, and instead of thinking through the reasons why that might have been like I should have, I just kept pushing the case in hopes of getting more info out of it and getting more clarity to the situation that way. But I guess at least the situation is pretty clear now!
This is the post that made me vote Awaclus yesterday. It feels calculated, like something scum had lots of time to come up with that would strike the right balance of apologetic and "no way I could have known". But idk, he's been so towny other than this.
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The LaLight kill (if indeed it is such) sort of points to scum being one person who's had a lot of suspicion on them and one who's had very little.
Because if scum is like gkrieg-math, why not kill MiX or Didds or Awa, who all seem to be kind of aligned in that direction? But if the scum is, say, Awaclus-gkreig, then better to keep the strong town allies in play.
But even if Awaclus is scum, which I seem to be talking myself around to, I still would rather get the partner today, on the basis that it seems easier to get the consensus, especially because I 100% believe Awaclus will bus without a second thought.
Does scum!Awaclus vote his partner right out of the gate in a game where his partner only needs 4 votes to be exiled? Feels a bit too gutsy.
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I haven't had time for a reread and may not.
Town is small enough now that a towncore approach appeals.
Right now I'm strongly townreading MiX and Didds. Awaclus too, though I'm a bit more wary there. That leaves scum somewhere in scola, gkrieg, or mathdude. I definitely get the sense that gkrieg and mathdude are both people who've had multiple wagons on them that didn't stick, which normally would be scummy, but given the nature of this game it may not be (since there was effectively 1 scum the first couple days).
I think it's a little odd that the day opening post didn't actual identify the night's victim. Can we get confirmation that LaLight was killed by scum rather than modkilled?
If this PoE is right then we win, yay. Also, the original post for opening the day said that LaLight died.
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
We know they didn't kill.
The LaLight kill (if indeed it is such) sort of points to scum being one person who's had a lot of suspicion on them and one who's had very little.
Because if scum is like gkrieg-math, why not kill MiX or Didds or Awa, who all seem to be kind of aligned in that direction? But if the scum is, say, Awaclus-gkreig, then better to keep the strong town allies in play.
But even if Awaclus is scum, which I seem to be talking myself around to, I still would rather get the partner today, on the basis that it seems easier to get the consensus, especially because I 100% believe Awaclus will bus without a second thought.
Does scum!Awaclus vote his partner right out of the gate in a game where his partner only needs 4 votes to be exiled? Feels a bit too gutsy.
LaLight dying because of his posting in the thread when it's locked is a real possibility. Alternatively, LaLight was voting math, right? So if you want to save math you need to kill every townie, because every townie's gunning for math.
Overall I think the scum team is exactly scola SM and math traitor.
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Vote: scola
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Consider one case - what if we all posted a scum-to-chum list? Yes, scum would then have all that info and might make a better night choice. But then their night choice becomes WIFOM, depending on whether they kill a strong town-read, or someone who's tunneling one of them, or someone who's tunneling a townie to frame them, or something else. But on the other hand, we would know exactly what LL's scum-to-chum list is today. We would even be able to compare yesterday's lists to how any of them might change today.
If we give scum info, there are two possible ways for it to go:
- either it benefits scum more than it benefits us, in which case scum uses the info
- or it doesn't, in which case scum ignores the info and nothing changes
It's literally not possible for town to ever get any benefit out of giving scum more info, unless it's a game with a third party, in which case it's at least theoretically possible for it to be mutually beneficial for town and scum. In a two-party game, the best case scenario is that nothing changes.
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In a purely vanilla game, the numbers did definitely agree with a "no exile". But whether it should have happened yesterday or today, I'm now starting to question the idea.
Yesterday would have been harder to exile a scum. We would have needed 5 of 8 votes... which is 5 of the 6 townies. Today, we need 4 of 7 votes (which is 4 of 5 townies). We still need all town except one... but we (each individual townie) needs to get 3 others to agree with us in voting today, where yesterday we needed 4 others to agree. So by this perspective, getting back to an odd number quickly does seem helpful.
But what if we had prolonged the day yesterday, rather than cutting it short? And what if we actually did try to get an exile off yesterday, rather than jumping straight to "no exile"? Bounce ideas back and forth. Try a wagon or two. See where people are voting. See if some people are eager to jump on any wagon or hesitant. And if we didn't get anywhere, then near the actual end of day, we could swing back to "no exile". Then today, we would have all kinds more information to analyze. But we're still sticking (at least mildly, at the moment) to the initial D1 thoughts of "let's vote out mathdude".
All this being said, I don't think any of this points back to yesterday to say a "quick-hammer" of no exile is scummy. I think it was general consensus that we want to get back to an odd number of players in a vanilla game. (In hind sight now, and especially for any future vanilla games, I think this is definitely something to consider though - don't just quickly go "no exile"!)
Not only is an odd number favorable to town, we get to make the decision with more info, since we now have the info that LaLight was town and got NK'd. Town having more info is strictly beneficial for town (just like scum having more info is strictly beneficial for scum). In any future vanilla game with an even number of players alive, there should be a no exile ASAP.
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Awaclus has some good arguments, but they aren't correct.
Damn. I've got to admit to my mistake here: this defense from EFHW was weird, I realized it was weird, and instead of thinking through the reasons why that might have been like I should have, I just kept pushing the case in hopes of getting more info out of it and getting more clarity to the situation that way. But I guess at least the situation is pretty clear now!
This is the post that made me vote Awaclus yesterday. It feels calculated, like something scum had lots of time to come up with that would strike the right balance of apologetic and "no way I could have known". But idk, he's been so towny other than this.
It was calculated for sure, I am trying to win the game after all. I didn't have to spend a lot of time on it though; the fact that it was true made the process a lot easier.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
You're right... I did get the order mixed up. So for the LL kill (for now, assuming it was scum-killed), there was presumably a team deciding on that kill. Anyone who has played scum with me before would know I wouldn't kill someone who was gunning for me like that. I'd try to kill someone that would point elsewhere.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
I have assumed until this point that scum killed LL. But looking back, it doesn't actually say that. We do need mod confirmation.
I think the most likely explanation if LL was mod-killed is that scum missed the kill due to inactivity. Joth and gk? Or maybe there wasn't even a recruitment the night before? Just gk as SM?
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If we give scum info, there are two possible ways for it to go:
- either it benefits scum more than it benefits us, in which case scum uses the info
- or it doesn't, in which case scum ignores the info and nothing changes
It's literally not possible for town to ever get any benefit out of giving scum more info, unless it's a game with a third party, in which case it's at least theoretically possible for it to be mutually beneficial for town and scum. In a two-party game, the best case scenario is that nothing changes.
Not only is an odd number favorable to town, we get to make the decision with more info, since we now have the info that LaLight was town and got NK'd. Town having more info is strictly beneficial for town (just like scum having more info is strictly beneficial for scum). In any future vanilla game with an even number of players alive, there should be a no exile ASAP.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. You're treating information like single points of data that don't change over time. What might benefit scum at one moment (depending on what they do with the info) may benefit town more later, and scum won't be aware of that because they don't know how others will act in the future.
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How about we stop thinking about how Swowl never makes everything clear and start thinking in the correct world...
Mathdude. A readlist? Please? Anything.
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I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?
Kind of, and so is joth. Unless I'm mistaken, you're claiming that scum killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was such an obvious town tell, and joth thinks you're claiming that Swowl killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was against the rules, in which case there would have been no kill by scum.
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.
No we don't, I'm objectively correct and you're objectively wrong. If scum can't correctly estimate how the info will make others act in the future, there is no reason to expect our estimation to be correct either, since we're making it with less info than scum is making theirs with.
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.
No we don't, I'm objectively correct and you're objectively wrong. If scum can't correctly estimate how the info will make others act in the future, there is no reason to expect our estimation to be correct either, since we're making it with less info than scum is making theirs with.
Okay yes giving scum information is bad but also helping town go through thought processes can help them get better reads. Basically, not all information is worse than it not being given.
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I know why no one died night 2. But if LaLight was modkilled that means no one died night 3 also. And there's no reasonable explanation for that.
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I know why no one died night 2. But if LaLight was modkilled that means no one died night 3 also. And there's no reasonable explanation for that.
The reasonable explanation is that nobody is claiming LaLight was modkilled.
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How about we stop thinking about how Swowl never makes everything clear and start thinking in the correct world...
Mathdude. A readlist? Please? Anything.
As I said, it makes more sense to wait until closer to the deadline. Can you give me an argument otherwise?
Theory is cool how about you make a scum to chum list so we can look at it after we exile you.
My list alone will probably be pretty useless. I admit I have very weak reads this game. On top of that, I know I will have a slightly biased scum-read towards those who target me the most (I always do).
I assume it would be better to do this closer to the deadline, rather than this early in the day. Let's let gk and joth actually contribute to this day - otherwise their places in the list will be quite meaningless (if they were even put in the list). But if I am up for exile, I trust someone would post an intent-to-hammer, and give time for me to post such a list, rather than a quick-hammer (which would be very scummy).
Did you read that and ignore it? Do you just post without reading responses directly to your posts/requests?
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I know why no one died night 2. But if LaLight was modkilled that means no one died night 3 also. And there's no reasonable explanation for that.
The reasonable explanation is that nobody is claiming LaLight was modkilled.
Good - we can agree on some things. I don't see any indication that LL was mod-killed either.
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Okay yes giving scum information is bad but also helping town go through thought processes can help them get better reads. Basically, not all information is worse than it not being given.
The only decision that was made before we got a chance to discuss things again was made by scum. Having better reads during the night is entirely useless for town because there's nothing we can do no matter how good our reads are. In this case, literally all information was worse than it not being given, because the only decision that even could have been affected by that information was scum's.
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Ok I'm here and going to catch up today. Sorry for the massive absences.
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I guess I misinterpreted your D3 post...
Basically people don't vote no exile when you want a discussion because voting no exile means you don't want a discussion. So by voting no exile I assumed you didn't want a discussion. You even said things like "why wait until tomorrow" and "it's clearly the best vote".
OK - I get that, and it sounds like that's also where Awaclus is coming from. My no exile vote wasn't a "I don't want more discussion", I just wanted to improve our odds for today's exile and saw lots of votes flying by. My "tomorrow" was meant to mean the game's "tomorrow", not real world tomorrow.
But I hear what you and Awaclus are saying. I'm still not sure I agree, but I'll have to meditate on that a little more. The "I want to solve this game" side of me feels I could've used that info to improve my scum reads - and I do stand by my "I don't really think it matters any more who scum NK" argument.
I'm happy to retract my vote for now:
Unvote
Let me ask something else then: how come no one else suggested no exile until I did?
It obviously matters who scum kills. Just the criteria has changed from hunting PRs.
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Also I am townlocking Didds for that post. If you have a problem, please present me a bad Didds post.
These are the easiest posts to make as scum for town points. They don't add any reads, and it's unlikely the prods really change the game much in town's favor. Not saying you shouldn't townread Didds, just that you shouldn't do it for that post alone.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I am pretty sure that rereading almost anyone would point to you. Not sure if it is a great argument.
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I think in a vanilla game like we are now, it could've helped town as well.
There is literally not even a hypothetical way in which it could have helped town without scum letting it happen.
Prolonging yesterday's discussions could have helped town. I agree, it also could have helped scum. But I think you're completely wrong in saying there was no way it could have helped town.
Consider one case - what if we all posted a scum-to-chum list? Yes, scum would then have all that info and might make a better night choice. But then their night choice becomes WIFOM, depending on whether they kill a strong town-read, or someone who's tunneling one of them, or someone who's tunneling a townie to frame them, or something else. But on the other hand, we would know exactly what LL's scum-to-chum list is today. We would even be able to compare yesterday's lists to how any of them might change today.
Now I'm not saying that giving those lists would have been a good choice yesterday. I'm just saying that putting information into public has the ability to help town, even if it may help scum in some way as well.
Are you just being stubborn Awaclus? Or are you intentionally trying to direct this game in a way that best benefits you and your scum-buddy?
I agree with Awaclus. Knowing everyone's scum-to-chum list is exactly what scum wants to know in a vanilla game. Literally isn't anything they want to know more.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
I very much agree with Didds here. It is a little bit strange how math phrased it as well.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
I have assumed until this point that scum killed LL. But looking back, it doesn't actually say that. We do need mod confirmation.
I think the most likely explanation if LL was mod-killed is that scum missed the kill due to inactivity. Joth and gk? Or maybe there wasn't even a recruitment the night before? Just gk as SM?
Even with my lack of activity, I would never miss a NK as scum in a vanilla game.
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Ok caught up. Pretty sure I agree with MiX here.
vote: scola
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How about we stop thinking about how Swowl never makes everything clear and start thinking in the correct world...
Mathdude. A readlist? Please? Anything.
As I said, it makes more sense to wait until closer to the deadline. Can you give me an argument otherwise?
Theory is cool how about you make a scum to chum list so we can look at it after we exile you.
My list alone will probably be pretty useless. I admit I have very weak reads this game. On top of that, I know I will have a slightly biased scum-read towards those who target me the most (I always do).
I assume it would be better to do this closer to the deadline, rather than this early in the day. Let's let gk and joth actually contribute to this day - otherwise their places in the list will be quite meaningless (if they were even put in the list). But if I am up for exile, I trust someone would post an intent-to-hammer, and give time for me to post such a list, rather than a quick-hammer (which would be very scummy).
Did you read that and ignore it? Do you just post without reading responses directly to your posts/requests?
I intend to put you to X-1 if you don't give a readslist right now so might as well speed up the process.
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.
Why would that be a townslip?
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I fully believe he LL got axed because he posted in the thread. It seems to me like that was something only town would do. No reread of him necessary.
I’m also not sure how your time line is messed up. It makes me wonder if it’s purposeful or just too hard to keep all of the (your) whacking and recruiting straight.
D1 no exile
N1 Joseph whacked
D2 EFHW exiled
N2 no nk (presumably traitor recruited)
D3 no exile to get to an odd number
N3 LL whacked
D4 is today
So you think scum no-killed? Why would they do that?
Not sure if this is an actual townslip or not.
Why would that be a townslip?
I guess I don't know what night he is referring to when he says that scum no-killed.
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I guess I don't know what night he is referring to when he says that scum no-killed.
I'm pretty sure that was just a miscommunication issue:
I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?
Kind of, and so is joth. Unless I'm mistaken, you're claiming that scum killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was such an obvious town tell, and joth thinks you're claiming that Swowl killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was against the rules, in which case there would have been no kill by scum.
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LaLight was not ModKilled. Any MoD disciplinary actions would be made public.
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I don’t understand. No one died N2 and there were no PRs to prevent it. I assumed that meant the traitor had been recruited. Am I missing something?
Kind of, and so is joth. Unless I'm mistaken, you're claiming that scum killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was such an obvious town tell, and joth thinks you're claiming that Swowl killed LaLight because posting in the locked thread was against the rules, in which case there would have been no kill by scum.
Oh! Now I see. Thank you!
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MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.
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Vote Count 4.2
scolapasta (2): MiX, gkrieg
Mathdude (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): scolapasta, mathdude, WCD, Joth
With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 4 ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.
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MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.
Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.
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Hmmm….. I haven’t given Scola much serious consideration recently, although I was voting for him early on at EFHWs behest so I can revisit my thoughts from that day. The thing is, I’m not sure why a baddie would recommend no exile when Math was already accumulating votes unless it was to prevent Math from being exiled, although it was super early in the day. Regardless, I can see how that might be partnery, but still seems like it hinges on Math.
Vote: Math
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MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.
Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.
How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?
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MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.
Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.
How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?
Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?
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How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?
Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?
[/quote]
Because if we are guaranteed to exile math tomorrow given we exile scola today regardless of scola's flip, getting to see scola's flip before math's doesn't actually help anything. On the other hand, if math is town against all expectations, it would be extremely useful to learn that today.
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How that post was supposed to look like:
How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?
Not realistic at all. Why do you ask?
Because if we are guaranteed to exile math tomorrow given we exile scola today regardless of scola's flip, getting to see scola's flip before math's doesn't actually help anything. On the other hand, if math is town against all expectations, it would be extremely useful to learn that today.
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Good point. I suppose if I'm confident in my world I should test it instead of trying to win more.
Vote: math, X-2 by the way.
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Vote Count 4.3
Mathdude (3): Awaclus, WCD, MiX
scolapasta (1): gkrieg
Not Voting (3): scolapasta, mathdude, Joth
With 7 alive it takes 4 to Exile.
Night 4 ends Tuesday, March 14th at 8:45pm Forum Time.
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Good point. I suppose if I'm confident in my world I should test it instead of trying to win more.
Vote: math, X-2 by the way.
How do you do math? That's X-1. Are you trying to get someone to accidentally hammer, with them thinking they're only putting it to X-1?
... I'm going back now to respond to a couple other posts, then I'll list my scum-to-chum
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Well, after a reread of LL, I don't see a whole lot there. He basically re-read Joseph, said it seems to point to me, and had stuck with voting for me ever since. He expressed suspicion of Awaclus "before he did the reread". He then also voted EFHW to make sure we got an exile and he posted when the thread was locked.
If I was scum (SM), I just couldn't justify to myself to take out someone who points so directly at me. And if I was traitor (I believe his death was before recruitment, right?) - I would hope/assume the SM would be smart enough to bus me for town-cred than to try and recruit me and waste a kill. But I'm neither of those. So either someone else had a different reason to kill LL (maybe he was one of the more town-read?)... or maybe someone realized it would be pretty easy to use a reread of LL to point to exiling me next.
I am pretty sure that rereading almost anyone would point to you. Not sure if it is a great argument.
I haven't gone back to look specifically. But it does kind of feel like you're right here, for this game. I guess my argument holds less water here then.
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Even with my lack of activity, I would never miss a NK as scum in a vanilla game.
That's all fine for you to say. But if you do actually forget about the game for 2 days because you're busy, then you might still miss a NK.
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MiX, why Scola over Math? I’m ready to vote for Math, but I want to make sure I’m not missing anything.
Because I think they're both scum. Honestly it doesn't matter for me, I just think that if scola flips scum then mathdude's more likely to be scum than the other way around, so voting scola first technically helps flip both.
How realistic do you think it is we'll exile someone other than math tomorrow if scola flips town?
Already hedging tomorrow's vote? That's a scummy thing to do.
So either you're town, and giving scum extra info during the day now (directly contrary to your whole argument at start-of-day) to let them make a more informed choice of night kill... or you are scum, knowing you're possibly setting up for killing 2 towns in a row to win the game.
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I still don't have a good read on anyone this game. Those who seem the most scummy to me are ones I almost always find scummy, often just based on their posting style. But since it looks like there's no chance of me surviving, I might as well offer what final thoughts I have, to see if they may be of any help tomorrow to try and find at least 1 scum this game.
Right now, I feel like scum is one of MiX and Awaclus, then one of gk and joth. I don't have anything concrete to back up this guess... it's just a gut feel.
Scum-to-chum list:
Awaclus
MiX
joth
gk
scola
WCD
I really don't think there's anything the last two have done that is overly townie. They just haven't done as much that I see as scummy.
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Good morning, party people. I went to see New Order last night in San Antonio. The fact that folks in their late 60s can rock that hard gives me hope. It was amazing!
Math is at X-1. I’m okay with that.
Non-US friends, we moved to Daylight Savings Time today so forum/eastern time might be an hour earlier for you now.
Sunday errands and all that today, but it’s my spring break so I’ll be around on a Monday for the first time this game!
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I still don't have a good read on anyone this game. Those who seem the most scummy to me are ones I almost always find scummy, often just based on their posting style. But since it looks like there's no chance of me surviving, I might as well offer what final thoughts I have, to see if they may be of any help tomorrow to try and find at least 1 scum this game.
Right now, I feel like scum is one of MiX and Awaclus, then one of gk and joth. I don't have anything concrete to back up this guess... it's just a gut feel.
Scum-to-chum list:
Awaclus
MiX
joth
gk
scola
WCD
I really don't think there's anything the last two have done that is overly townie. They just haven't done as much that I see as scummy.
Do you want us to kill me/Awaclus if you flip today?
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I don't get the feeling that it's both of you. But I could be wrong about that.
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I’d be happy to hammer math.
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In a game with pretty much no concrete info, we've got a long way to find a win. If you hammer me, it's EX-LO tomorrow.
I get it... you want closure on this. But by focusing on it for so many days, I think we've missed out on getting other info. But you'll find you either got played by scum or were just flat out wrong.
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I’d be happy to hammer math.
Then what are you waiting for? It's not like there's a PR left in the game for him to fakeclaim.
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I’d be happy to hammer math.
Then what are you waiting for? It's not like there's a PR left in the game for him to fakeclaim.
Oh yes. I should claim.
I'm a vanilla townie.
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Vote: mathdude
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Vote: mathdude
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THREAD LOCKED
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Vote Count 4.Final
Mathdude (4): Awaclus, WCD, MiX, Joth
scolapasta (1): gkrieg
Not Voting (2): scolapasta, mathdude
With 7 alive it took 4 to Exile.
Day 4 ends now.
Mathdude has been exiled.
They were Vanilla Town.
Night 4 begins now and ends Tuesday, March 14th at 11:40pm Forum Time.
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Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting (5): scolapasta, Awaclus, WCD, MiX, Joth
With 5 alive it takes 3 to Exile.
Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 22nd at 10pm.
gkreig has died at night. They were Vanilla Town
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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Well. We're going to lose. Not joth, joth's gonna win, but we will.
I didn't reread because I had no idea who would die, and also I think today should be me or Awaclus.
I presume scum is scola and joth and we lose, which is why I'm pessimistic. What does everyone else think?
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I suppose at this point Awa/scola makes the most sense to me.
But MiX's pessimism here doesn't ring particularly true. Might be time to take a closer look at MiX.
Scum can quick hammer off one wrong vote, so today we should be very careful not to put a vote down unless we're really really sure.
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MiX, why so glum?
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Man, 15 hours without a post. It is deader in here than all those townies we exiled.
This weekend I’ll embark on a traditional ExLo read through and see if I can crack the case. In the meantime, prod request: everyone
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I wonder if they didn’t realized the day has started because it was late after we thought it would?
I’m visiting my sister in Atlanta this weekend. It supposed to be cold and rainy so I’m maybe not as busy as I thought I would be.
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Hello.
I'm waiting for scola and especially Awaclus.
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Vote Count 5.1
Not Voting (5): scolapasta, Awaclus, WCD, MiX, Joth
With 5 alive it takes 3 to Exile.
Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 22nd at 10pm.
scolapasta has been prodded
Awaclus has been prodded
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Hi!
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Didds is pretty universally trusted at this point, which raises two questions.
1) Do we need to give her a closer look?
2) If not, is there some useful way we can put our fate in her hands and just agree to let her pick the day's exile?
I mean, if Didds is town and we just asked her to choose and three of us committed, ahead of time, to vote for that choice unless it's us, then she'd have a 50/50 shot, which of course wouldn't really be 50/50 because of reads and stuff. Which at this point seems pretty decent.
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Sorry no recent posting. Life is sucky right now.
Will post more, not not today. Latest by Monday.
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I just had an exam two days in a row, there's a bunch of assignments I still need to catch up on, and the parliamentary election (where I'm running) is coming up so it's pretty limited how much effort I can put into this game unfortunately. I'd /out but it doesn't seem like we have a replacement so I guess it's still better for town if I continue playing even if I'm playing half-ASS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASS_Altenburger)edly. If Didds is actually universally trusted and this isn't just some kind of a picture joth is trying to paint as Didds's partner, I'd be fine with having her choose the exile because I do.
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I just had an exam two days in a row, there's a bunch of assignments I still need to catch up on, and the parliamentary election (where I'm running) is coming up so it's pretty limited how much effort I can put into this game unfortunately. I'd /out but it doesn't seem like we have a replacement so I guess it's still better for town if I continue playing even if I'm playing half-ASS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASS_Altenburger)edly. If Didds is actually universally trusted and this isn't just some kind of a picture joth is trying to paint as Didds's partner, I'd be fine with having her choose the exile because I do.
...not really have the ability to do a lot of work to figure out the correct exile myself anyway, is what I was going to say.
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Oh, good gravy. I feel like my reads were crap. I was right about EFHW but completely wrong about math.
Awaclus is at the top of my list right now, but no real reason other than vague suspicion and POE of my town core. I could go Scola or MiX, too. Reading back over doesn’t help because there’s just not much there there, which I guess is why none of us prefer vanilla games. Salted caramel is so much better. (Joth, write us s fun game with lots of PR!)
Awa, what are you running for? And good luck!
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Awa, what are you running for? And good luck!
The parliament, and thanks!
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Awa, what are you running for? And good luck!
The parliament, and thanks!
When is the election??
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Awa, what are you running for? And good luck!
The parliament, and thanks!
When is the election??
The election day is on April 2.
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How exciting!
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Vote Count 5.2
Not Voting (5): scolapasta, Awaclus, WCD, MiX, Joth
With 5 alive it takes 3 to Exile.
Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 22nd at 10pm.
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Well, this is dumb. Come on ya’ll
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Yeah it's pretty stupid I agree.
I don't really have the motivation to reread when I think it's scola and awaclus and neither are doing anything today. I'll put effort in F3 100% but today, I might not.
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Eh, maybe I should reread after all, I don't really feel like catching up on assignments right now.
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I'm just putting together a compilation of things I think are potentially relevant for each player for the time being.
joth
D1
reads the setup, understands it correctly, and proceeds to frame strictly pro-scum things as pro-town in his analysis
votes joseph, later clarifies that the vote is now serious
doesn't understand why people are voting for math, in his next post he votes for math
accuses gkrieg of faking the townslip
does a fake intent to hammer, apparently by accident
was on the D1 failed math wagon
D2
claims he would have recruited N1 if he was scum
sheeps my EFHW case
was on the D2 EFHW wagon
D3
claims that LaLight (a bit ambiguous who he means) is too scummy to be scum and votes for me
D4
strongly townreads MiX, Didds and a bit less strongly townreads me
posts some vague theorizing about potential scum teams and comes to no conclusion
hammers math
D5
thinks it's me/scola, also suspects MiX somewhat, suggests that Didds should choose the exile
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MiX
D1
votes joth because of joth's awful argument which reminds him of scum!joth
thinks the mathdude wagon is good and votes EFHW
townreads scola, thinks EFHW is playing too passively
thinks my description of mathdude describes mathdude in every game
questions if gkrieg would really townslip as town (TL note: gkrieg did in fact really townslip as town)
was not on the failed math wagon, allegedly because he's so used to plurality exiles that he forgot to even consider that this game doesn't have one
D2
votes math
claims that he would have hammered math as scum, since that would have been a situation he could have planned for
completely sold on EFHW/math
was not on the EFHW wagon
D3
votes math pointlessly, then immediately votes joth
says gkrieg looks awful, says he just wants to flip mathdude
D4
participates in the argument with scola, is correct
votes scola
votes math
was on the math wagon
D5
waiting for scola and me
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Didds
D1
posts a lot of stuff that seems irrelevant for the purposes of the reread; I'm finding it potentially noteworthy that there's a lot of it
votes gkrieg because it's suspicious that he isn't around
does the "scum is only one person" thing
votes Joseph
is being helpful by providing vote counts and the deadline in a real timezone whose current UTC offset is possible to look up on Google
doesn't think gkrieg is scummy, willing but not excited to move to math (doesn't actually move to math), townreads me the most
doesn't make it in time to vote for math, tells math to stop casting shade on her for it
D2
votes scola
votes gkrieg for being absent
was not on the EFHW wagon
D3
votes gkrieg
thinks it's math and gkrieg
D4
chimes in about the no exile argument with the correct take
did a reread, willing to vote for math or gkrieg, less suspicious of me, scola and MiX, no idea about joth
votes math
D5
vaguely suspects/POEs me, could go for scola or MiX
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I'm going to take a break for now.
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scola
D1
agrees with Didds's logic about there being only one scum (despite there obviously being two)
votes for gkrieg
later explains that he is unsure about the gkrieg vote
missed the deadline, wasn't on the failed math wagon
D2
top scum reads are EFHW and MiX
votes EFHW
was on the EFHW wagon
D3
suggests no exile
D4
makes the incorrect point about it being weird to give scum less info on D3
votes MiX
unvotes
D5
apologizes for the lack of posting
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Eh, I'm getting a pretty clear impression that MiX and Didds are both town, which leaves scola and joth, both of whom I could easily see being scum, including together. If I'm wrong about that, then gg scum I guess.
Vote: scola
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Vote Count 5.3
scolapasta (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (4): scolapasta, WCD, MiX, Joth
With 5 alive it takes 3 to Exile.
Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 22nd at 10pm.
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Not Voting (3): scolapasta, WCD, MiX, Joth
There's 4 of them.
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Cool, so I wasn't totally wrong in my scumreads! Although this means it's less likely to be both, but not by much.
I'll reread now, but gut tells me we flip scola first. And yes I'm still scumreading both scola and awaclus more than joth and Didds.
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Awaclus
D1
RVS votes for MiX based on bold username theory
asks mod Q about # of JKs (everyone else assumes 1)
disagrees with me on the relative advantage/disadvantage of daychat for scum, disingenuously frames his personal disagreement as me being objectively wrong
complains about notifications
offers a drunk DAMA, which one person takes him up on. His response is snarky and unhelpful.
votes Joseph, clarifies the vote is serious (wagon position 2- kinda scummy)
switches vote to mathdude after Joseph wagon fails to gain traction
explains his mathdude vote (towny explanation)
argues with Didds about whether we should be treating this as a 1-scum or 2-scum game, disingenuously frames his personal disagreement as Didds being objectively wrong
D2
says that as scum, he always just kills the players who scumread him
votes EFHW after EFHW comes out against mathdude theory
makes a highly theoretical case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21385.msg901320#msg901320) against EFHW that in retrospect feels like BS
D3
makes this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21385.msg901509#msg901509) sort of apologizing for not backing off of EFHW which I find very scummy
votes LaLight for hammering EFHW
votes no exile
D4
makes (?)joke about how we should have used the modkill as an extra exile
corrects his joke because the NK breaks it
goes back to voting math
explicitly mentions that "my favorite nightkill got exiled"
argues with scola about the utility of quick no exile rather than allowing time for discussion. In this case I do think he's objectively right.
makes a weak excuse for not being the first one to suggest no exile (which now that I think about it, for someone with so many opinions about objectively correct plays is pretty weird!)
pointless argument about whether LaLight was modkilled or scumkilled
convinces MiX to vote for math over scola because he thinks math's flip will be more informative because "if math is town against all expectations, it would be extremely useful to learn that today"
D5
shows up, conditionally agrees on my idea of letting Didds choose the exile
is running for parliament (not alignment indicative, unless you want to insert a joke about politicians being two-faced)
Re-reads everyone but him and posts summaries
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Having re-read, I think it's extremely likely Awaclus is scum.
I think that it's only somewhat likely scola is his partner.
Basically Awaclus has been on mathdude all game. Yesterday he said that mathdude's town flip would be informative, and implied that it would make scola seem townier (I think). But today he hasn't said anything about what we apparently learned from mathdude's flip, and he's voted for scola.
Awaclus has spent all game lecturing people about how his opinions about what's good for scum and town are "objectively correct" and theirs are not. But when given the opportunity to do something that pretty much everyone agrees is strictly correct play (no exiling with an even number of townies and no PRs), he waits for someone else to suggest it.
He was an instrumental part of the EFHW wagon and the mathdude wagon, the only two successful town exiles we've had in four days. He and I have both been on both wagons. MiX was on neither. Didds and scola were on one each (not the same one).
Given that MiX is getting ready to vote for scola, I think Awaclus/MiX is not at all out of the question as a scum team. Having one scum off/one on each successful wagon feels like how those two would do it for sure.
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Awaclus is at the top of my list right now, but no real reason other than vague suspicion and POE of my town core.
Hopefully I've given you some other reasons?
vote: Awaclus
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Well, it's not me and scola. That would be funny though.
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explicitly mentions that "my favorite nightkill got exiled"
That's the opposite of what I explicitly mentioned.
my favorite exile got NK'd
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Basically Awaclus has been on mathdude all game. Yesterday he said that mathdude's town flip would be informative, and implied that it would make scola seem townier (I think). But today he hasn't said anything about what we apparently learned from mathdude's flip, and he's voted for scola.
We learned that someone else was the traitor. (It was you, if I'm not mistaken.)
Awaclus has spent all game lecturing people about how his opinions about what's good for scum and town are "objectively correct" and theirs are not.
And I've been correct all game!
But when given the opportunity to do something that pretty much everyone agrees is strictly correct play (no exiling with an even number of townies and no PRs), he waits for someone else to suggest it.
I admit that was poorly played by me, but it was equally poorly played by the rest of the town as well, and scola, who did in fact suggest it, is likely scum. Evidently it's not alignment indicative. If anything, it's easier to see that no exiling in that situation is good when you're scum looking for pro-town things to do than if you're actually town.
Also, if I was indeed scola's partner, you would probably have to argue that we discussed the plan to suggest the no exile and agreed it should be scola's job to do, which would make no sense if it was true that me failing to suggest it was scummy.
He was an instrumental part of the EFHW wagon and the mathdude wagon, the only two successful town exiles we've had in four days. He and I have both been on both wagons. MiX was on neither. Didds and scola were on one each (not the same one).
Given that MiX is getting ready to vote for scola, I think Awaclus/MiX is not at all out of the question as a scum team. Having one scum off/one on each successful wagon feels like how those two would do it for sure.
Awaclus/MiX is completely out of the question, I'm town and so is he. As scum, I have literally never paid any attention to how scum is distributed between the wagon and off-wagon, I don't really think that's anywhere near important enough to warrant making it more difficult to play authentically.
What I do do as scum is pushing cases on townies only exactly the right amount to avoid them actually getting exiled, which lets me continue tunneling the same people the next day, which I haven't done here — I was indeed an instrumental part of both town exiles and I'm pretty sure both of them were popular enough to have supporters off-wagon.
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What I do do as scum is pushing cases on townies only exactly the right amount to avoid them actually getting exiled, which lets me continue tunneling the same people the next day, which I haven't done here — I was indeed an instrumental part of both town exiles and I'm pretty sure both of them were popular enough to have supporters off-wagon.
Is this true? What a weird thing to disclose now.
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What I do do as scum is pushing cases on townies only exactly the right amount to avoid them actually getting exiled, which lets me continue tunneling the same people the next day, which I haven't done here — I was indeed an instrumental part of both town exiles and I'm pretty sure both of them were popular enough to have supporters off-wagon.
Is this true? What a weird thing to disclose now.
Yes, I think you can see that pattern in my scum games. I don't think it's weird to disclose since this game basically depends on whether you and Didds can trust me over joth and that's an argument that could possibly help.
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Okay...
Prod: Scola, please
So, if its Joth and Scola we lose if we exile Awaclus
And if its Joth and Awaclus, we lose if we exile Scola
And if it is Scola and Awaclus we lose if we exile Joth
I know that is obvious to all of you, but I need to think about it as pairs for a sec and I am now more sure of my read of Mix. Wait a sec... I think there is an error
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Nevermind... the error was mine.
So, right now
Awaclus (1): Joth
Scola (1): Awa
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Sorry for the no recent posting (again).
I also find the "as scum, I do this" since while it may be true, scum is well aware of that and can just choose to play differently for a game, in order to make that argument. (to me, it feels similar to the "objective truth" argument about quick no exile). I don't think it makes Awaclus definitely scum, but it's at best non alignment indicative to me.
But add the change from conditionally agreeing to let Didds choose the exile, and most importantly the fact that everyone has checke d in and I'm still alive (since town Awaclus voting for me would allow scum to quick exile scum me), I'm ready to:
Vote: Awaclus
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I also find the "as scum, I do this" since while it may be true, scum is well aware of that and can just choose to play differently for a game, in order to make that argument. (to me, it feels similar to the "objective truth" argument about quick no exile). I don't think it makes Awaclus definitely scum, but it's at best non alignment indicative to me.
The point is that when I'm scum, I do that for a reason, and the reason is that it's anti-town and lets me appear like I'm doing something and avoid actually doing anything, and it also puts pressure on a specific townie who's likely going to stay alive for a long time because it's always someone else getting exiled instead, which is useful in the end game. It's not just some random personality trait of mint, and to give up all the advantages I get from doing that would be a major sacrifice just for some WIFOM.
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Just for future reference, it also happens that I'm town and I simply can't convince people to join me on my favorite exiles even though I'm legitimately trying, so that isn't particularly alignment-indicative when it happens — which is why I get away with it when I achieve that result on purpose as scum.
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Okay...
Prod: Scola, please
So, if its Joth and Scola we lose if we exile Awaclus
And if its Joth and Awaclus, we lose if we exile Scola
And if it is Scola and Awaclus we lose if we exile Joth
I know that is obvious to all of you, but I need to think about it as pairs for a sec and I am now more sure of my read of Mix. Wait a sec... I think there is an error
Do you think it's plausible it's me and joth or me and scola?
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Just for future reference, it also happens that I'm town and I simply can't convince people to join me on my favorite exiles even though I'm legitimately trying, so that isn't particularly alignment-indicative when it happens — which is why I get away with it when I achieve that result on purpose as scum.
I don't understand what you're saying. This game you have been very effective at getting people to join you on your favorite exiles.
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Just for future reference, it also happens that I'm town and I simply can't convince people to join me on my favorite exiles even though I'm legitimately trying, so that isn't particularly alignment-indicative when it happens — which is why I get away with it when I achieve that result on purpose as scum.
I don't understand what you're saying. This game you have been very effective at getting people to join you on your favorite exiles.
Hence it's just for future reference; if it did happen, it would only be weak evidence of me being scum. It didn't happen in this game, which makes it strong evidence of me being town.
This all holds up under conservation of expected evidence (https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/conservation-of-expected-evidence).
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Vote Count 5.4
Awaclus (2): Joth, scolapasta
scolapasta (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (2): WCD, MiX
With 5 alive it takes 3 to Exile.
Day 5 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 22nd at 10pm.
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Vote: Awaclus
I'm sorrry, I'm sorry! I am really so sorry
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Vote: Awaclus
I'm sorrry, I'm sorry! I am really so sorry
So you were scum after all?
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gg I guess.
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Thread Locked!
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Final Vote Count
Awaclus (3): Joth, scolapasta, WCD
scolapasta (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (1): MiX
With 5 alive it took 3 to Exile.
Awaclus has been Exiled. They were Vanilla Town.
GAME OVER!
The Skum Team of WestCoastDidds and scolapasta Win!
Thank you all very much for playing!
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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Vote: Awaclus
I'm sorrry, I'm sorry! I am really so sorry
So you were scum after all?
Yes, I was the traitor. Genuinely clueless on D1 and D1.
Scola played really well, and I am now more convinced than ever that we should Exile All Lurkers.
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Here are the roles.
Mafia Strong - Pasta
Mafia Traitor - WCD
Town JK - FFHW
VTs are..
Joth
MiX
Mathdude
Joseph
gkrieg
LaLight
Awaclus
I will make the Skum Chat and the Speccy Public on Discord in a second.
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Well, at least I was correct about MiX being town.
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Lol! See Didds, this is why I never trust you! I always regret it when I do!
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This was the last time scola gets to use the "I'm always awkward Day 1" excuse!
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Lol! See Didds, this is why I never trust you! I always regret it when I do!
You should trust me instead!
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I was sure someone was going to come hammer. Well, it would be a very traitor-like move to show up "just a little late".
The game did just get interesting.
If you are casting shade on me, quit it. It literally took me 2 hours in traffic to get home today and I am flattened enough by all that crap to take more of it now.
Guess I should have pressed Didds just a little more!
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Lol! See Didds, this is why I never trust you! I always regret it when I do!
I KNOW! This is the worst possible outcome for me.
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Cool I was right that scola was SM.
This was the last time scola gets to use the "I'm always awkward Day 1" excuse!
No, no it's not. We just need to replace mathdude with scola from now on, aka exile them regardless of what they say.
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Cool I was right that scola was SM.
This was the last time scola gets to use the "I'm always awkward Day 1" excuse!
No, no it's not. We just need to replace mathdude with scola from now on, aka exile them regardless of what they say.
lol I'm pretty sure we did that to math like the first 5-6 games they played already :P
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I think that
A) Skum played well
B) The no exile combined with the EFHW exile to start things off
Really shifted the game state that I had thought would happen.
The lack of info from the noEX on day 1 then getting EFHW on day 2, leading to another no kill means that waking up day 3 (which purposely went no exile) there was only a 50% of possible info gain for town. Let alone waking up Day 4 (while I do believe the day 3 decision was correct) making it only 3/6 possible flips... it was just a weird game.
Funny aside - Galz and I had a talk about the longevity of this game given the insta loss concept and the no kill for skum to recruit and etc. We landed on agreeing it was starting townsided and if it went on past Day 4 it was going to probably be skum sided. BUT like almost in quotations, when talking about the set up there Galz said something as a joke in defense of the balance that was like "well the new trend was to not exile on day 1. So that and then they find the JK and its easy game gg skum". ... Which I just got a kick out of lol
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oh wait I forgot, I wanted to ask...
Didds! Day 1 late vote was for show yes?
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who wants to play a light RMM? I will get one up like in a day or two if someone promises to run one after me so I can actually play :P
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I was sure someone was going to come hammer. Well, it would be a very traitor-like move to show up "just a little late".
The game did just get interesting.
If you are casting shade on me, quit it. It literally took me 2 hours in traffic to get home today and I am flattened enough by all that crap to take more of it now.
Guess I should have pressed Didds just a little more!
No, no. That was 100% honest. I was beyond tired and frustrated with my day. But otherwise, yes.
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oh wait I forgot, I wanted to ask...
Didds! Day 1 late vote was for show yes?
No, it was really traffic. I’d never lie about that.
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If it had been deliberate, I’d have just stayed gone and made excuses later
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who wants to play a light RMM? I will get one up like in a day or two if someone promises to run one after me so I can actually play :P
I've been working on designing a sort of spiritual successor to hatchling that's less swingy. It could work as an RMM
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who wants to play a light RMM? I will get one up like in a day or two if someone promises to run one after me so I can actually play :P
Oh I'm sure I'd play again if something was posted.
I have a setup I started planning a while ago. I'd have to go check if I still think it's good... but rather than "light RMM", it's very heavy on the "madness". It would likely be good to have a co-host, both in case I get too busy and to bounce ideas off before starting the game.
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who wants to play a light RMM? I will get one up like in a day or two if someone promises to run one after me so I can actually play :P
so promised
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<3 you Didds. You and scola both played very well. My reads were honestly so bad this game. I'm not sure they could have been worse.
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Well played Didds and scola!
No one looked at who I was voting for when scum chose to kill me...
Ya, I was not as invested in this game as town deserved, for which I apologize. With long pauses between games, I set up other things to do when my ADHD hits, so I get out of the habit of checking on forum mafia.
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Well played Didds and scola!
No one looked at who I was voting for when scum chose to kill me...
I did, that's why I voted for scola.
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I will make the Skum Chat and the Speccy Public on Discord in a second.
That's a pretty long second.
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Sorry y’all - I tried to make the threads public and it didn’t work so here are the links
Speccy
https://discord.com/channels/925533299194097674/1076677446511906936
Skum Chat
https://discord.com/channels/925533299194097674/1081280414628458496
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who wants to play a light RMM? I will get one up like in a day or two if someone promises to run one after me so I can actually play :P
Is the time that your "day or two" represents proportional to the "second" that it took for you to make speccy/scumchat public? Do you want someone else to run a game first?
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Sorry y’all - I tried to make the threads public and it didn’t work so here are the links
Speccy
https://discord.com/channels/925533299194097674/1076677446511906936
Skum Chat
https://discord.com/channels/925533299194097674/1081280414628458496
The links probably don't work except for people who already had access.
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I made them public. Let me know if you still can't see them.
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Lesson learned: If I'm alive until the end of the game, Didds is scum :P
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This has been an unusually long DAY 1.