Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: onigame on December 15, 2021, 12:52:13 pm
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On turn 3, I draw this:
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Ambassador.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Ambassador.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Copper.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Copper.jpg)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Copper.jpg)
"Well, I'm f***ed."
What are your favorite examples of Turn 3 hands that instantly make you swear?
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1(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7a/Potion.png/9px-Potion.png) on apothecary or scrying pool board
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4 Coppers and a Goat.
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Moneylender, Silver, 3 Estates.
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Moneylender, Silver, 3 Estates.
Unless your opponent drew a Militia or something turn 3, seems okay enough. Guaranteed $5 turn 4, even if you don't get to use the Moneylender that deck cycle.
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Moneylender, Silver, 3 Estates.
Unless your opponent drew a Militia or something turn 3, seems okay enough. Guaranteed $5 turn 4, even if you don't get to use the Moneylender that deck cycle.
That isn't okay enough, that's awful. It's the equivalent of getting a Golden Sombrero except your turn 5 hand has two Coppers instead of two good cards. While you bought only one $5 t3-4, your opponent probably bought a $5 and a $3-4 (or even another $5 if they were lucky) and trashed a Copper, which puts you at least one turn behind if not more.
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It's better than Moneylender and silver both missing the shuffle but that's about the nicest thing that can be said about it
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It's better than Moneylender and silver both missing the shuffle but that's about the nicest thing that can be said about it
Is it, though? When they both miss the shuffle, you get them on t5. When they collide with 3 Estates, getting them on t5 isn't guaranteed and you certainly won't get them any earlier (if you're unlucky, they could even miss the second reshuffle).
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Moneylender, Silver, 3 Estates.
Unless your opponent drew a Militia or something turn 3, seems okay enough. Guaranteed $5 turn 4, even if you don't get to use the Moneylender that deck cycle.
That isn't okay enough, that's awful. It's the equivalent of getting a Golden Sombrero except your turn 5 hand has two Coppers instead of two good cards. While you bought only one $5 t3-4, your opponent probably bought a $5 and a $3-4 (or even another $5 if they were lucky) and trashed a Copper, which puts you at least one turn behind if not more.
Golden Sombrero doesn't guarantee you get a $5 though. It's only a 1/6 chance of it I believe. This still seems better than that, honestly - I'd probably rather have the guaranteed $5 and draw my ML/S on turn 5+. I think I overestimated the chance of not getting a $5 hand in my head T3/4 with a Moneylender/Silver opening, now I think that through slightly more it seems fairly rare. Asides from drawing both S/M turn 5, and the situation above you can also draw one of them turn 5 and draw MCCEE/CCCCE or SCCEE/CCCCE turns 3/4 - I think those are the only situations that don't involve getting attacked or involve other things that modify hands. So yeah, it's pretty bad overall.
That said I'm not sure how much it puts you behind. Obviously compared to the ideal scenario of drawing them turns 4/5 and getting $5 both times (or potentially even $5/$6), while trashing a copper it's a lot worse. That's a somewhat uncommon situation though I think. More often you'll be down a copper and/or up a $3/$4 card, which isn't good but it's also not totally awful.
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4 Coppers and a Baron is always disappointing.
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4 Coppers and a Baron is always disappointing.
Another favorite is Shepherd + 4 Coppers.
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Potion and two coppers and two estates in a kingdom with Familiar (especially when there is no available trashing).