| (https://preview.redd.it/1kto4l16cz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=21cbe96c1c53732c89465c019cddea3a893ddec7) | (https://preview.redd.it/fa0qryb4cz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=71c370d53942e359734ec8e7fdfc204896f50117) | (https://preview.redd.it/5lvrzlatbz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9bcdd13a3fe4b9697034ffd8807c4e9fc0417d9b) | (https://preview.redd.it/05hrh99ubz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7101f58f7366f372026710176ef50e1acedeb10d) |
Piranhas: Pile size 20 |
| (https://i.imgur.com/IPOWF3B.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/IecwkuU.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/s6G5IeN.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/WQTjCgm.png) |
Week 8; continuing from previous Fan Card Mechanics Contests (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20616.0), indexed here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20768)
Fan Card Mechanics Contest Week 8: Under the Seeeeea
This week, I'm pushing my fancard mechanic, the Aquatic card subtype (please excuse the mistakes, these were from my first fancard set):
(https://preview.redd.it/1kto4l16cz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=21cbe96c1c53732c89465c019cddea3a893ddec7) (https://preview.redd.it/fa0qryb4cz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=71c370d53942e359734ec8e7fdfc204896f50117) (https://preview.redd.it/5lvrzlatbz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9bcdd13a3fe4b9697034ffd8807c4e9fc0417d9b) (https://preview.redd.it/05hrh99ubz761.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7101f58f7366f372026710176ef50e1acedeb10d)
These cards, typically Actions, have the text: "This is gained and discarded this from play to the bottom of your deck" (which can potentially be omitted/contracted for this contest). In ShardOfHonor's card generator, I have used the primary colour 1,1,1.15, and half split with the usual action colour on top.
This is functionally similar to silverspawn's Village Outpost's "When you shuffle your deck, put this on top afterward", though sometimes you can avoid the shuffle completely. Needless to say, your Aquatic cards will frequently clash.
I'm looking for card-shaped suggestions that in some way make use of the Aquatic subtype mechanic, (or if that turns out to be too narrow, generally contribute to a bottom-decked ecosystem).
Contest closes Saturday 1st May, 11am GMT
Is that below-the-line text what defines the category? In that case, I'd definitely say they should be omitted - that would simply be included in the rulebook for the Aquatic type
Also, for clarification: If you have no draw pile, would it work the same as top-decking to an empty draw pile? I'm assuming the answer is yes, but I want to make sure
KrakenA Rabble variant which indirectly targets Aquatic cards by forcing players to discard from the bottom of their deck. I kept the same "Actions and Treasures" wording from Rabble both to keep it strong in games with no other Aquatic cards and in case there might be any Treasure - Aquatic cards. Should there be any Night - Aquatic cards, of course, those would be immune to Kraken's attack. On the one hand, in a game with other Aquatic cards, this could be more powerful than Rabble, but on the other hand, it's also weaker in that the effects of the attack are delayed. Overall, I suspect it would have a power level similar to Rabble
Action - Aquatic - Attack
+3 Cards
Each other player reveals the bottom 3 cards of their deck, discards the Actions and Treasures, and puts the rest back in any order they choose.
-
This is gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck.
If we follow the design rules of the official cards as closely as possible, there would neither be an Aquatic type or a different colour scheme, just the below line text 'this is gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck'. New types are used when a card's text needs to refer to that type (Knights refer to themselves, Defiled Shrine refers to Gathering), or there are rules that make the card behave in an unusual way (Reserve, Duration) or cards with that type have a common extra setup rule (Looter needs the right number of Ruins got out the box, shuffled). Different colours are visible reminders of unusual behaviour.
So unless a card exists which needs to refer to Aquatic cards, none of these criteria are met. It's just the same as Nomad Camp's 'this is gained to the top of your deck' in essence.
If we follow the design rules of the official cards as closely as possible, there would neither be an Aquatic type or a different colour scheme, just the below line text 'this is gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck'. New types are used when a card's text needs to refer to that type (Knights refer to themselves, Defiled Shrine refers to Gathering), or there are rules that make the card behave in an unusual way (Reserve, Duration) or cards with that type have a common extra setup rule (Looter needs the right number of Ruins got out the box, shuffled). Different colours are visible reminders of unusual behaviour.
So unless a card exists which needs to refer to Aquatic cards, none of these criteria are met. It's just the same as Nomad Camp's 'this is gained to the top of your deck' in essence.
As for the mechanic itself, one could theoretically get themselves stuck (depending on the types of Aquatic cards in play) with a hand that gets played, discarded to the "bottom" of an empty deck, drawn again, and repeated. There would be an option to not play one or some of the Aquatic cards, to "reset" the pile, but then that can weaken the cards if you have to not play them occasionally. On the other hand, getting 5 Aquatic cards which all have no "+Cards", and 4 of which have +Action, +$2... this will guarantee a Province every turn. So either this design of card needs to be carefully avoided (like a Festival), or we need a slight change to the Aquatic card Type.
I would propose the following change, to defining the Aquatic card Type:
If you have at least 1 card in your draw pile, Aquatic cards are gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck. If your draw pile is empty, they go in your discard pile.
I would go with the careful design; I'm happy with aquatic golden-decks being a thing, but as with all card contests, one should carefully consider whether their card often creates a trivial winning strategy.
If I understand your proposed change correctly, it would just mean buying a 6th aquatic-festival, but feel free to play with the mechanic as you wish.
Poseidons gift
4$ event
Move your Aquatic token to an Action Supply pile. (during your turn, cards from that pile are Aquatic)
When you draw this card discard it to the bottom of your deck. Then, put the top card of your deck into your hand.
+3 Coffers
+1 Buy
-
This is gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck.
(https://i.imgur.com/GrqlyGf.png)QuoteWhen you draw this card discard it to the bottom of your deck. Then, put the top card of your deck into your hand.
+3 Coffers
+1 Buy
-
This is gained and discarded from play to the bottom of your deck.
Long-time lurker, first time poster! Please pardon any formatting issues. Wanted to dive in with my take on the elusive prize that is a sunken treasure.
An under-costed Gold with upsides. The catch is in how infrequently it should see play. A card that always misses the shuffle unless the player can draw the last card of their deck is inherently swingy. Coffers and + Buy give the card some much needed flexibility (hitting more $ than needed on a turn that this sees play would feel bad). Multiple copies likely increase your chances of getting to play one, but playing more than one relies on a Kingdom with healthy draw and some finesse when the deck gets low. Also, consistency of the card might benefit from the order of play and/or gaining of other Aquatic cards (especially + Card(s) like Undercity, Mermaid, and Kraken above).
I'm satisfied with the card from a flavor standpoint, but I'm unsure of how interesting/viable something like this would be in practice.
I think the Aquatic type is reasonable, but I don't get most of the cards proposed so far. Being Aquatic should generally be a downside (can be good if you have multiple cards of that type, but that's usually not the case), but most cards seem to treat it as if it were a bonus.
A strict reading of this card makes it nearly impossible to play. Only if you can get it into your hand without drawing - such as with a card like Border Guard or Catacombs - can you play it. And then there's the accountability issue with "when you draw this". How can you prove whether or not your opponent actually followed the directions on the card? I draw this with my initial 5-card hand, but I decide not to discard it. I play a Catacombs, look at the top 3 and put them in my hand. None of those three cards is a Sunken Treasure. In my buy phase I play this. Now, how can you prove that it was not one of the cards I put in my hand with Catacombs?
| (https://i.imgur.com/brhXahbh.png) | Quote from: Poor Unfortunate Souls POOR UNFORTUNATE SOULS (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/32px-Coin5.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/px7Wdryh.png) |
Coral Reef - Action Aquatic, $4 cost.Village that lets part of the engine line up together to be played easily, whilst letting some adaptability happen throughout the game with moving the token around.
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may play an Aquatic card from your hand.
-
When you gain this, you may move your Aquatic token onto an Action Supply pile. (During your turns, cards from that pile are Aquatic.)
Shell Merchant • $4 • Action - Aquatic
+1 Action
+$1
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card costing $5 or less onto your deck.
-
Gain and discard this from play to the bottom of your draw pile.
Way of the Dolphin
Way
+1 Action
This, the next card you play, and all cards in the supply are Aquatic until end of turn.
(https://i.ibb.co/MNmTcdg/Octopus.png)
I believe that only works if you have to Octopi, right?
you're right. That's an issue. not sure what to do about it yet.
You may put your deck into your discard pile. The player to your left looks through your discard pile and reveals four cards, then you do the same. Shuffle the revealed cards and put them onto your deck.
you're right. That's an issue. not sure what to do about it yet.
you're right. That's an issue. not sure what to do about it yet.
If you want golden decks to be theoretically achievable with Octopus but want it harder to set up, then you could remove the first sentence. That way, players would need to have all the necessary cards in their discard pile when they play Octopus.
The alternative could be to select the five cards that go on top, and shuffle the rest under those five cards, so that you are not guaranteed to see Octopus during your next turn. I'm not sure how best to word that though.
you're right. That's an issue. not sure what to do about it yet.
If you want golden decks to be theoretically achievable with Octopus but want it harder to set up, then you could remove the first sentence. That way, players would need to have all the necessary cards in their discard pile when they play Octopus.
If you want golden decks to be theoretically achievable with Octopus but want it harder to set up, then you could remove the first sentence. That way, players would need to have all the necessary cards in their discard pile when they play Octopus.
If you want golden decks to be theoretically achievable with Octopus but want it harder to set up, then you could remove the first sentence. That way, players would need to have all the necessary cards in their discard pile when they play Octopus.
The problem with that one is that, with Octopus being at the bottom of your deck, you're often either going to have a very large or a non-existent discard pile, and I don't like that swinginess.
| User | Card | Link | Handwavy analysis | Finalist? |
| mxdata | Kraken | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868323#msg868323 | Kraken is an aquatic smithy variant, with an attack that looks suspiciously like it's designed to hit other krakens. Being terminal draw, this will often need some serious villager/topdecked village assistance to do anything more than big money. | |
| fika monster | Poseidon's Gift | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868389#msg868389 | Simple, but effective. Poseiden's Gift takes the aquatic mechanic and asks the player to choose what they want topdecked at the start of their shuffles, taking a leaf from Pathfinding and Lost Arts. As this looks good on most cantrips, it's a great way to ensure the aquatic subtype will be relevant on most boards. | Finalist |
| bootymancer | Sunken Treasure | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868390#msg868390 | This is cool; I'm glad people are going beyond the Action examples and bringing aquativeness to the Treasure type. Sunken Treasure is, true to its flavour, a treasure that sinks to the bottom of your deck. A lone Sunken Treasure will effectively cantrip itself in the process, in many ways like Bandit Camp, and its discarded Spoils payload. The final treasure when you reach it, is a Ducat with the power of a Gold (which arguably, is a lot of Coffers). Accountability-wise, this card currently raises some problems - I've played in a 4p Dominion tournament where a player tried repeatedly to flash $5 as $6, and $7 as $8: to catch them in a lie with this card, the table would have to definitively remember the player not putting cards into their hand at the end of their previous turn, which could be a pain. That said, as its location in your deck is largely fixed (the bottom), perhaps this card wouldn't particularly suffer from being double-sided, and bottomdecked when shuffled? This is a really impressive first entry, welcome to the forums! | |
| emtzalex | POOR UNFORTUNATE SOULS | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868414#msg868414 | Poor Unfortunate Souls is a neat drawing sifter; something great for the start of the shuffle. It's a non-terminal embassy if you can pitch the right cards, though a nasty junker if not. From a hand of 9 other cards, one would expect to be able to find a victory card and a treasure, making this exceedingly powerful for a lab variant. The cursing, while thematic, seems pretty nasty for an event largely out of the player's hand; with 5 attempts to draw in any missing card types, it's a no-brainer to take this gamble in most circumstances, and the very occasional punishment for an unlucky draw could feel bad. I wonder whether there's a less swingy way to punish such draw failures. | Finalist |
| Aquila | Coral Reef | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868421#msg868421 | Coral Reef is Poseidon's Gift on steroids; so long as you balance your Reefs with your card of choice, you can start every shuffle with your chosen card on top with attached villages to boot. This is a neat way to showcase the aquatic subtype in any kingdom, but also feels like an autobuy, particularly in any kingdom with terminal draw. | |
| spineflu | Shell Merchant | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868430#msg868430 | Shell Merchant looks like a tricky card to utilise: the card itself is a disappearing Copper, that Scavengers any card costing up to $5, and at cleanup bottomdecks itself as per the aquatic mechanic. One could consider this a weak engine piece; but true to the aquatic mechanic, it lives its best life building golden decks, eg: 4x Shell Merchant, 4x peddler variant (< $5), 1x Copper (no trashing required). The mandatory putting of deck into discard pile makes this card less versatile than it could otherwise have been (Smithy variants struggle to make as good use of this), and I wonder whether this is strictly necesary. | Finalist |
| pubby | Immersed | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868449#msg868449 | Immersed takes aquativeness to the Treasure type, and makes good use of the collision-heavy aspect with this non-terminal bridge-variant. While immersed is cumbersome payload to have at the start of your shuffle, it attempts to make up for this with great self-synergy, with some fantastic low cost rush options, but only for as long as immersed remain in the supply to replenish those trashed. | |
| silverspawn | Fishing Boat | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868537#msg868537 | Fishing Boat rewards you for drawing the end of your deck, while not drawing your full deck. This feels difficult to consistently achieve, and often prone to sabotage, though cantrip Silver is nice if you can make it work. | |
| Xen3k | Way of the Dolphin | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868546#msg868546 | Way of the Dolphin is a neat use of the aquatic mechanic; throwing in a dolphin while you're building lets you set up your next turn for success with your buys and next played action going to the top of your shuffle. The mandatory bottomdecking makes this not so great while you're greening (outside of very specific circumstances); perhaps a "non-Victory", or "Action or Treasure" filter on affected supply piles wouldn't go amiss. Still, pleased to see a Way, and very happy with the concept. | |
| Timinou | Shipwreck | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868547#msg868547 | Liking the flavour here; Shipwreck is an aquatic semi-junk card that invites itself to the bottom of your deck when you trash non-zero cost cards. Then, if you can set these up, they can yield nice $5s. I wonder whether a larger pilesize wouldn't go amiss here; in a 4-player game, these could empty before players have finished trashing their starting Estates. | |
| mathdude | Pearl Collector | http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20770.msg868625#msg868625 | Pearl Collector is a nice sifter; somewhere between its obvious comparison and say Secret Passage, and appropriately priced in between. I'd have to playtest this to give an informed judgement, but my initial thought is that this is still somewhat weak for its cost as per Pearl Diver. |
| (https://i.imgur.com/QSXhw6Fh.png) | Quote from: Leviathan Leviathan -- $13 |
| (https://i.imgur.com/6gRAb7vh.png) | Quote from: ZoraMoneylender Zora Moneylender -- $4 |
| (https://i.imgur.com/fzDcHTwh.png) | Quote from: SilverTrident Silver Trident -- $3 |
| (https://i.imgur.com/MJiCL2Sh.png) | Quote from: SecretGrotto Secret Grotto -- $2 | (https://i.imgur.com/8Tv2gguh.png) Quote from: Thingamabob Thingamabob |
| (https://i.imgur.com/ctEuufXh.png) | Quote from: ManOWar Man 'O War -- $5 | (https://i.imgur.com/PLCxgevh.png) | Quote from: FlotsamJetsam Flotsam and Jetsam -- $0* |
| (https://i.imgur.com/I0ePocOh.png) | Quote from: WhatLurksBelow What Lurks Below -- $4 |
| (https://i.imgur.com/yOyhJJph.png) | Quote from: AtlanteanEstate Atlantean Estate -- $3 | (https://i.imgur.com/z0jtj43h.png) Quote from: Underwater Underwater |