Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Swowl on November 08, 2020, 11:45:27 pm
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M133: FDS on a Plane Mafia
This is a Semi-Open Set Up Normal Game for 12 players invented by Ashersky.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.
MOD: Swowl
Sign Up List:
1. ADK
2. Dylan
3. Space
4. MiX
5. WCD
6. EFHW
7. Raptor
8. faust
9. LaLight
10. MCMC
11. gkrieg
12. Galzria
Tags:
Game Tracker:
The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.
The Rest:
1. Bold, Brown text are reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.
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SET UP INFORMATION:
Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.
All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:
1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (“Either” Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)
After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.
E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2
D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3
Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3
Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.
* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.
Clarifications:
--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail. If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.
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/in
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/in
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/in :-)
Swowl, you're a star! Thank you for opening a game!
I feel really overdue to offer to run one, but also just a bit too burnt from real life to do it right now :-( Hope you're all doing okay out there!
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/in
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Hi friends!
/in
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/in
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/in :-)
Swowl, you're a star! Thank you for opening a game!
No problemo! Kinda still nothing but time in the Swowl household unfortunately. Might as well do something!
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/in
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/in
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since it's my birthday today, I might as well /in :)
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since it's my birthday today, I might as well /in :)
Happy b dayyyy
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since it's my birthday today, I might as well /in :)
Happy, happy birthday!! I hope it’s an amazing day!
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since it's my birthday today, I might as well /in :)
Happy Birthday!!
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Thank you lots! Been missing you.
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Love me a ++ setup /in
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/in but I may be a bit rusty.
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/in but I may be a bit rusty.
oh! Hey!
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/in but I may be a bit rusty.
oh! Hey!
Hey!
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Galz? Shraeye? Pasta? Eddie?
Someone come hammer this ish
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Hammer at 5:00pm PST if nobody else takes it before then. Been holding off to make sure anybody that wanted in could play. Lots of folks I haven’t seen in awhile!
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Coolio. Assuming we fill today PMs will go out tonight
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#HammerStats
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Sweet.
Game is full - PMs will go out this evening.
Thread locked except for tags.
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PMs being sent out shortly.
I will be stealing MMs flavor context because i love it.
Passengers are town
Highjackers are mafia
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All PMs have been sent.
Please confirm your roles in your personal QTs ASAP.
The game will start when everyone has confirmed or in 48 hours. Whichever happens first.
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Pretty much everyone has confirmed.
Hopefully will be starting this evening.
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Awesome sauce - i have received all confirmations.
Game start time estimated like.... 6pm FT.
Have fun!
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Flight 1009 from Berlin to New York takes off on schedule from FDS Airlines. As the patrons board the plane and take their seats they hear a static click come over the airline speakers,
"Good morning everyone! I am Captain Swowl! We are expecting a smooth ride... I hope at least, because all the bumpy stuff makes me super nervous..."
"Hey Cap... you brought the beer right?"
.... *microphone click*...
After a few moments, the microphone clicks on again,
"Ladies and Genzmentelmen.... we are expectected to take off... you know sooniphsh or something. Please enjoy the clear... no wait... the bad weather... and... yeah just sit there uncomforably for... 8 HOURS??!??!? ARE YOU FUC..." *microphone cuts*
After what seems like an eternity, the plane finally takes off and reaches cruising altitude. Again, the microphone clicks on,
"Hello again everyone. This is your Captain speaking... We have been given some uhm ... unfortunate news. We have been informed that there are likely some Highjackers aboard this flight! The problem is that we have absolutely no idea who they are! There is some silver lining though. Our Sky Marshal, XxRaptorSlayer96, has been vetted by several levels of security, including myself. You can undoubdedly trust them to help you find the Highjackers!
Best of luck!"
*Microphone cuts*
XxRaptorSlayer96 is the Town Aligned Innocent Child.
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Vote Count 1.0:
Not Voting (12): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, faust, LaLight, MCMC, gkrieg, Galzria
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 starts now and ends on November 26th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?
Also, first.
Also, vote: Raptor for being IC. That’s no fun for me at all! (Note to those who don’t know: Twinclaim with Raptor).
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Hey, no fair.. I've been super tired tonight, and have been staying awake plodding through difficult duo lingo stuff, and now I come back just before 6pm forum time (which is 11pm for me) and find out I could have been RVSing for the past 40 mins already? :-P
Vote: gkrieg for having been gone for ages. It's very suspicious! (I hope life is good, gkrieg!!)
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vote: Raptor
lame
vote: galz
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vote: Raptor
lame
vote: galz
You’re lame.
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Hey all! I hope that everyone has been doing well as of late.
Vote: Galz for being lame scum..
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heyo! i'm a bit rusty, i didn't even follow games for some months? but i am still confident in my ability to read faust
vote: faust
also, gkrieg hi! how have you been?
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Hi hi hi hi hi!
LaLight, we misssssssed you!
And Gkrieg! Holy smokes! And mcmc who must be hoarding a ton of baby pictures and should at least show us one...
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The hijackers would be the ones in masks.
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heyo! i'm a bit rusty, i didn't even follow games for some months? but i am still confident in my ability to read faust
vote: faust
also, gkrieg hi! how have you been?
It's not me though!
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Gotta say, the flavor of this game is very unrealistic... suggesting that I would fly... and to the US of all places!
In other news, Galzria is scum.
Vote: Galzria
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The hijackers would be the ones in masks.
EFHW gets a day pass for this joke!
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MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?
Also, first.
Also, vote: Raptor for being IC. That’s no fun for me at all! (Note to those who don’t know: Twinclaim with Raptor).
Last time you asked this, you knew I wasn't scum and hammered me anyway. Does it matter what you believe in anymore?
vote: Raptor
lame
vote: galz
You’re lame.
But are you also lame?
Hey all! I hope that everyone has been doing well as of late.
Vote: Galz for being lame scum..
Oh hey an IC. I'd just like to point out that I do not expect you to be an amazing IC. This is mostly to hope this is a reverse of the Robz-IC game...
The hijackers would be the ones in masks.
Considering Swowl just knew there were hijackers, I wouldn't be surprised if they were the ones without masks...
I agree that gkrieg and mcmc are a pleasing sight. Let's see if
Vote: mcmc is scum or not.
PPE faust posts
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Oh, hi MiX! How are you and how you been?
Galz can’t be super lame, yet, since he got the game to actually start. That’s worth something, right? High five on the Robz IC dig. Never have we been so doomed as we have been by having to trust Robz. Alas.
Raptor could be an awesome IC, not least of all because he knows Galzy better than most. But yeah....he need not be awesome as long as he’s not the vehicle of our demise.
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vote: Space. They are literally always scum.
Vote: gkrieg for having been gone for ages. It's very suspicious! (I hope life is good, gkrieg!!)
also, gkrieg hi! how have you been?
Been pretty busy! I had three papers published over the summer, and the weather is finally starting to be nice here again. Other than the usual 2020 stuff, I can’t complain too much! How has everyone else been?
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Galz can’t be super lame, yet, since he got the game to actually start.
Where did he do that?
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Galz can’t be super lame, yet, since he got the game to actually start.
Where did he do that?
He hammered the signup list...
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Congratulations on the publications, gkrieg! That’s awesome and no small thing! And the academic world never celebrates us the way it should, so Huzzah!
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Congratulations on the publications, gkrieg! That’s awesome and no small thing! And the academic world never celebrates us the way it should, so Huzzah!
Thanks!
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Oh, hi MiX! How are you and how you been?
Galz can’t be super lame, yet, since he got the game to actually start. That’s worth something, right? High five on the Robz IC dig. Never have we been so doomed as we have been by having to trust Robz. Alas.
Raptor could be an awesome IC, not least of all because he knows Galzy better than most. But yeah....he need not be awesome as long as he’s not the vehicle of our demise.
I'm good, and have been good for a while, thanks for asking :P Having classes at 8 AM every day's taking a toll on me, but I should be able to handle it until they're over at this rate.
Galz can be sorta lame, voting the IC's boring, and he made an easy RVS target on himself.
We as a whole played the Robz!IC game all wrong, out of respect for Robz's reads. I have a better idea this time around, hopefully so does the rest of town.
Honestly, Galzria, and the votes on him, made this all about himself. Boo. I guess I'll wait for more content.
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8 am classes?!! How are you surviving at all. I think of you as part vampire, kind of sleep deprived drunk at 3am. This sounds like a devastating schedule for you. But yes....almost over! Thank goodness semesters are not eternal.
Ohhhh....better ideas! Exciting! I’m here for it.
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
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8 am classes?!! How are you surviving at all. I think of you as part vampire, kind of sleep deprived drunk at 3am. This sounds like a devastating schedule for you. But yes....almost over! Thank goodness semesters are not eternal.
Ohhhh....better ideas! Exciting! I’m here for it.
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
Don't worry, I haven't been awake at 3 am for a long time. That would not...be possible, lol.
I like that you're thinking about ADK, I was also interested by them, and wanted to say something relevant about them. Unfortunately, from their posts all I know is that they're still ADK. Which I suppose is good news, but nothing amazing.
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
Okay!
What I've remember of raptor is 2 scum games and one where he copped me (successfully). So...their reads are good? But basically we can just assume their reads are just a regular townie's reads and play the day independently of his reads.
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8 am classes?!! How are you surviving at all. I think of you as part vampire, kind of sleep deprived drunk at 3am. This sounds like a devastating schedule for you. But yes....almost over! Thank goodness semesters are not eternal.
Ohhhh....better ideas! Exciting! I’m here for it.
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
I'm okay
Is there a reason you don't want to talk about galz? If anything given how lurky his games have been lately I think that trying to force some activity out of him would be a good thing
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But does faust not do that as town?
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
i missed you!
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Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
i remember a couple of these :)
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Vote Count 1.1:
Galzria (3): ADK, XxRaptorSlayer96, faust
faust (2): LaLight, gkrieg
XxRaptorSlayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg (1): Space
MCMC (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, MCMC
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 starts now and ends on November 26th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
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Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
i remember a couple of these :)
Humph!
Yes, you should revel in your victory. Well played, still stings, but well played!
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Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust the, has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
I'm okay
Is there a reason you don't want to talk about galz? If anything given how lurky his games have been lately I think that trying to force some activity out of him would be a good thing
Oh, I wouldn’t say that I don’t want to talk about Galz ever, just that there isn’t much to say yet. But then again, we aren’t even 24 hours in, so that’s true for everyone, I guess
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I’m going camping this weekend. As some might guess, I’m a bit of a fancy didds, so camping isn’t my most favorite pastime but Debate loves it and I’m a good sport.
Anyway, I expect to have little of no access until Sunday unless this campsite is different than others I’ve been to before. Anyway, I’ll be gone so MiX, don’t kill me, okay?
Happy weekend everyone!
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But what do I do as town?
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But does faust not do that as town?
Oh, ha. There it is.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
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how about vote: Space then
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
If you team up with gkrieg then I'll team up with ADK!
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how about vote: Space then
Aw, Vote: LL. Missed you too, old friend :-)
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
If you team up with gkrieg then I'll team up with ADK!
Are you implying that a you-ADK team would be scumreading me or something? I think they were scumreading me last game partly because I wasn't good enough at hiding that I was a PR and therefore anxious about staying alive, so that was kind of valid, if a bit annoying. I'm all for people teaming up to cooperate on scrutiny, as long as everyone keeps thinking for themselves too, in case their favourite collaborators happen to be scum. I just don't trust you in particular right now because evil!you is too sneaky.
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Woooo it’s good to be back.
Vote: faust For wagon building!
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
If you team up with gkrieg then I'll team up with ADK!
Are you implying that a you-ADK team would be scumreading me or something? I think they were scumreading me last game partly because I wasn't good enough at hiding that I was a PR and therefore anxious about staying alive, so that was kind of valid, if a bit annoying. I'm all for people teaming up to cooperate on scrutiny, as long as everyone keeps thinking for themselves too, in case their favourite collaborators happen to be scum. I just don't trust you in particular right now because evil!you is too sneaky.
I doubt that I'm anyone's favorite collaborator. I also don't feel like faust is being serious
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Woooo it’s good to be back.
Vote: faust For wagon building!
Would make more sense to join the biggest wagon, just sayin'.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Team Spacekrieg to the rescue!
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But what do I do as town?
I think you are less likely to do overtly town things as town.
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Hey everybody! Sorry, it’s deer season so I spent all yesterday in the woods forgetting that the game had started. Welcome back gkrieg and congrats!
Vote: LL
It’s good to be able to actually do that again lol.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
how about vote: Space then
Hmm what?
Woooo it’s good to be back.
Vote: faust For wagon building!
Why are you voting faust? This explanation isn't satisfactory.
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Townread on mix, which means he's probably scum
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vote: mcmc. I thought the faust vote was a little weird, too. You don't need a reason if it's RVS, and if it's not RVS, it's pretty early to be sheeping.
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vote: mcmc. I thought the faust vote was a little weird, too. You don't need a reason if it's RVS, and if it's not RVS, it's pretty early to be sheeping.
Never too early to sheep or to wagon build huzzah
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But what do I do as town?
I think you are less likely to do overtly town things as town.
I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
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It’s good to be able to actually do that again lol.
I hope that this is gonna be the catchphrase of 2021.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
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It’s good to be able to actually do that again lol.
I hope that this is gonna be the catchphrase of 2021.
Yes please!
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Howdy friends.... well, the good news is that I survived the wilderness. And looks like I didn’t miss much.
faust IS tricksy! What a perfect descriptor. But also gives me hope about the hopeful theme of 2021.
ADK, I said I was turning over a new leaf! Let’s coalition-build!
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But what do I do as town?
I think you are less likely to do overtly town things as town.
I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
I read that as saying something more like you don’t play like Obvious Towny McTown in such a way that you are above early suspicion. This helps your survival rate since scum isn’t quite as pressured to NK you N1 since they can always try to argue living!faust is scum!faust. This makes you a better town player, because when you’re town, it’s better for you to be alive later in the game rather than out early, generally speaking.
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It’s good to be able to actually do that again lol.
I hope that this is gonna be the catchphrase of 2021.
Indeed
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Howdy friends.... well, the good news is that I survived the wilderness. And looks like I didn’t miss much.
faust IS tricksy! What a perfect descriptor. But also gives me hope about the hopeful theme of 2021.
ADK, I said I was turning over a new leaf! Let’s coalition-build!
You know what, sure
Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
But what do I do as town?
I think you are less likely to do overtly town things as town.
I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
I read that as saying something more like you don’t play like Obvious Towny McTown in such a way that you are above early suspicion. This helps your survival rate since scum isn’t quite as pressured to NK you N1 since they can always try to argue living!faust is scum!faust. This makes you a better town player, because when you’re town, it’s better for you to be alive later in the game rather than out early, generally speaking.
What makes you think that was gkrieg's thought process?
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I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
I read that as saying something more like you don’t play like Obvious Towny McTown in such a way that you are above early suspicion. This helps your survival rate since scum isn’t quite as pressured to NK you N1 since they can always try to argue living!faust is scum!faust. This makes you a better town player, because when you’re town, it’s better for you to be alive later in the game rather than out early, generally speaking.
[/quote]
I mean, that is a wrong perception though. I might try to stay alive if I'm some important PR, but otherwise the optimal play is to be as towny as possible, exile as much scum as possible, draw the nightkill as early as possible. Trying to stay alive for the sake of it is anti-town. I really don't think my, or frankly anyone's, town game is so much above the fray that it's better for them to hamper their early game.
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Sorry about the quotefail.
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I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
I read that as saying something more like you don’t play like Obvious Towny McTown in such a way that you are above early suspicion. This helps your survival rate since scum isn’t quite as pressured to NK you N1 since they can always try to argue living!faust is scum!faust. This makes you a better town player, because when you’re town, it’s better for you to be alive later in the game rather than out early, generally speaking.
I mean, that is a wrong perception though. I might try to stay alive if I'm some important PR, but otherwise the optimal play is to be as towny as possible, exile as much scum as possible, draw the nightkill as early as possible. Trying to stay alive for the sake of it is anti-town. I really don't think my, or frankly anyone's, town game is so much above the fray that it's better for them to hamper their early game.
[/quote]
as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
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wow, not playing mafia really influenced my level of english (not that's why I'm back (not that it's not))
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as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
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vote: mcmc. I thought the faust vote was a little weird, too. You don't need a reason if it's RVS, and if it's not RVS, it's pretty early to be sheeping.
Never too early to sheep or to wagon build huzzah
Aren't you the only one on faust's wagon by now? Besides, I checked, and there was only 1 vote on faust when you voted.
Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
Okay, but why? It feels like you said "yes" very enthusiastically but you didn't give a (good) reason. Is it just because faust is faust then, and nothing about this particular game?
Personally I think it's kinda futile to be suspicious of faust D1. You can keep him in your scumreads, but being suspicious of him isn't going to be very productive.
Howdy friends.... well, the good news is that I survived the wilderness. And looks like I didn’t miss much.
faust IS tricksy! What a perfect descriptor. But also gives me hope about the hopeful theme of 2021.
ADK, I said I was turning over a new leaf! Let’s coalition-build!
Wait why did you mention ADK all of the sudden?
as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
Isn't your own first response to this also pointless then? People like to do analysis, it's fun, even if useless.
This game is weird. Looking forward for mcmc to explain what he's doing this game, and for Galzria to actually vote people.
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It wasn’t all of a sudden. It just seemed that way because I was gone for a bit, but I was actually returning to something I’d said earlier.
But that really seems neither here nor there in the big scheme.
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as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
Isn't your own first response to this also pointless then? People like to do analysis, it's fun, even if useless.
Yes it is. Sometimes I can't control myself :(
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Well I mean it wasn't pointless in the sense that it's good to raise awareness for the fact that playing for survival is bad and anti-town and scummy, no matter who you are.
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
What? Based on the fact that he's posted nothing since his opening posts?
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
What? Based on the fact that he's posted nothing since his opening posts?
No, based on the fact that his wagon didn't take off.
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
What? Based on the fact that he's posted nothing since his opening posts?
No, based on the fact that his wagon didn't take off.
Wouldn't the opposite be true?
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I don't think so.
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I feel like I should be offended. What is an "overtly town thing"? Are you calling me a bad town player?
I read that as saying something more like you don’t play like Obvious Towny McTown in such a way that you are above early suspicion. This helps your survival rate since scum isn’t quite as pressured to NK you N1 since they can always try to argue living!faust is scum!faust. This makes you a better town player, because when you’re town, it’s better for you to be alive later in the game rather than out early, generally speaking.
I mean, that is a wrong perception though. I might try to stay alive if I'm some important PR, but otherwise the optimal play is to be as towny as possible, exile as much scum as possible, draw the nightkill as early as possible. Trying to stay alive for the sake of it is anti-town. I really don't think my, or frankly anyone's, town game is so much above the fray that it's better for them to hamper their early game.
as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
Yup, this is exactly what I mean.
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as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
True, but discussing what people might have meant does move the game along and allow people to interact.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
I actually don't think I was behind your misexile(?) as often as I was behind your correct exile, but yes, I made people vote for you often :)
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
So you're voting for me because you should just vote somewhere else?
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
What? Based on the fact that he's posted nothing since his opening posts?
No, based on the fact that his wagon didn't take off.
Wouldn't the opposite be true?
I would say that scum don't quickly move to their scum buddies in the early game. A wagon not taking off probably just means that the reason wasn't compelling enough for anyone to jump on, even for scum.
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
So you're voting for me because you should just vote somewhere else?
Sure, I randomly picked you among the rest of the players so I could put my vote somewhere ::)
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as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
True, but discussing what people might have meant does move the game along and allow people to interact.
Putting words into people's mouths is counterproductive to finding out their true intentions though
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Vote Count 1.2:
Galzria (2): ADK, XxRaptorSlayer96
faust (2): gkrieg, MCMC
MCMC (2): MiX, EFHW
LaLight (2): Space, Dylan
XxRaptorSlayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg (1): faust
Space (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on November 26th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
Okay, but why? It feels like you said "yes" very enthusiastically but you didn't give a (good) reason. Is it just because faust is faust then, and nothing about this particular game?
Personally I think it's kinda futile to be suspicious of faust D1. You can keep him in your scumreads, but being suspicious of him isn't going to be very productive.
I'm enthusiastically invoking exactly the reason I explained there, which is that scum!faust played too well in the last game I was in. Honestly, there just isn't enough of this game yet to form any reads!
To be clear, I'm not scumreading faust right now, I'm just declaring that I expect to question his motives a lot.
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I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
I actually don't think I was behind your misexile(?) as often as I was behind your correct exile, but yes, I made people vote for you often :)
Ah, yes, misexiled! Or I've just been typing "mixiled" because it seems easier :-) Apologies for slipping back into the old terminology there.
Anyway, my point is that I got dead and you were mostly one of the ones to blame pretty much every time :-P
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Vote: Didds for not voting yet.
Also, Didds, I keep thinking of you every time I walk up to Port Meadow and it's flooded.. which it is pretty much all the time at the moment, and I go up there a couple of times a week on walks :-P
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I know that I haven’t voted! I did t realize I was the only one, though. I’m still salty about faust being tricksy....I don’t know folks from before well enough to say, and I always think EFHW is scum as she rarely is. I also tend to think lucky Galz is scummy, but that is often not true, too. My townie list is you, mix, ADK, and LL...but that isn’t much help at all.
I’ll follow the IC if it comes down to it, but there is such a wide spread right now and som any lingering RVSs that I’m not sure it really matters. I’ll work on it!
I think of you often, too...mostly because I could really, really use a thermal bath in Budapest right about now!
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Vote: Didds for not voting yet.
Also, Didds, I keep thinking of you every time I walk up to Port Meadow and it's flooded.. which it is pretty much all the time at the moment, and I go up there a couple of times a week on walks :-P
Not voting yet is so in character for town didds though
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I like to be the anti-MiX when it comes to voting....
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as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
True, but discussing what people might have meant does move the game along and allow people to interact.
Putting words into people's mouths is counterproductive to finding out their true intentions though
I can't figure out this conversation. Which comment of gkrieg's are we trying to understand? Why did he chime in without saying what he meant by that comment, whatever it was?
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
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Prod: Galz
Vote: Space
To chime in from earlier, I know I will probably not be the an amazing-IC, but... I think I'm pretty amazing and I'm IC so...
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
What? Yikes. I am offended by the suggestion. No, I play to win the game that I'm in, anything else is deeply unfair to the rest of the players and should be banned.
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I feel like EFHW is comparing me to reinoe :(
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Vote: Space
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
Wow. Just wow. Hey can I accuse Galzria of the same thing? :P
Vote: Space
Just sheeping the IC? Oh nevermind you're not going to answer anything about this vote because you specifically didn't say anything about it.
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Vote: Space
Just sheeping the IC? Oh nevermind you're not going to answer anything about this vote because you specifically didn't say anything about it.
Maybe I'll tell you if you join us!
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
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I know that I haven’t voted! I did t realize I was the only one, though. I’m still salty about faust being tricksy....I don’t know folks from before well enough to say, and I always think EFHW is scum as she rarely is. I also tend to think lucky Galz is scummy, but that is often not true, too. My townie list is you, mix, ADK, and LL...but that isn’t much help at all.
I’ll follow the IC if it comes down to it, but there is such a wide spread right now and som any lingering RVSs that I’m not sure it really matters. I’ll work on it!
I think of you often, too...mostly because I could really, really use a thermal bath in Budapest right about now!
Hehe.. I fee like usually I'm one of the last ones left, and I always regret that later in games when I want to have some nice wagon analysis. Anyway, you should vote somewhere (even me if you want!) just so we can look at who else voted where when there have been a bunch of flips in the later game.
And yes, I would love to be back in Szechenyi Baths again! Still vaguely hoping it will be possible to return to Budapest before too many more years. I just hope all the cool little vegan restaurants and amazing escape rooms survive covid!
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
Hmm, yeah, sure, this has even less explanation than your previous vote.
Who wants to vote mcmc with me?
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
What? Yikes. I am offended by the suggestion. No, I play to win the game that I'm in, anything else is deeply unfair to the rest of the players and should be banned.
I'm sorry. It’s just been on my mind ever since that game and is affecting being able to read you.
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
Hmm, yeah, sure, this has even less explanation than your previous vote.
Who wants to vote mcmc with me?
Why is mcmc voting without a reason a problem but faust doing the same isn't?
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Why is mcmc voting without a reason a problem but faust doing the same isn't?
faust is faust, mcmc is not faust, and mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever. There's 2 things that can explain this, but one of them is simply that he's scum.
Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
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I mean you could say that mcmc's vote looks like he's moving away from faust
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
Hmm, yeah, sure, this has even less explanation than your previous vote.
Who wants to vote mcmc with me?
When I voted faust I didn't realize lalight had moved off, I saw that galz had 3 and faust had 2, thought some interesting interactions could come from evening those wagons up at 3/3 look where people went. Nothing much happened, probably because that wagon was actually only me and gkreig.
I also was happy sheeping gkrieg and lalaight who are player when town I tend to trust. Since then Faust has acted as I expect town faust to act and the "wagon" is not helpful for interactions so I unvoted.
Seeing as Faust is reading as towny to me I like his space vote and I feel like Space's vote for didds isn't super valid which is a little scummy.
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Why is mcmc voting without a reason a problem but faust doing the same isn't?
faust is faust, mcmc is not faust, and mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever. There's 2 things that can explain this, but one of them is simply that he's scum.
Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
I mean you could say that mcmc's vote looks like he's moving away from faust
not sure what to make of this but yea if I am criticizing my own vote it looks more like I moved off of Faust because it went nowhere than gkrieg. I mean I'm sheeping the person I was voting, that looks dodgier than faust moving.
I think that means mix is towny? Scum probably tries to say my Faust vote is disingenious.
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mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever.
lol says the person who never changed his RVS vote.
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Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
At this point I should clarify that I am 100% sheeping.
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I mean you could say that mcmc's vote looks like he's moving away from faust
Well, yes, but it felt different to me. But then again...
Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
At this point I should clarify that I am 100% sheeping.
Maybe I'm just wrong.
For the record, I'm against the Space votes: I reread Space, and what I saw of them was Space!Space with more self-awareness, which is NAI. Given their playstyle, it's also much easier to get scum!Space D2 and on whereas it's easier to misexile them D1. I also disagree with Space's vote on Didds, but it seems like a town!Space thing to do.
mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever.
lol says the person who never changed his RVS vote.
To be fair, it has helped me (try to) get a better read on mcmc. But I was aware of this when I said that :P
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I also reread space I am pretty out on people's meta but space seems more jokey than I expect, but that likely due to increased comfortability which comes with time which is the thing I have missed the most
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Vote Count 1.3:
Space (4): LaLight, XxRaptorSlayer96, faust, MCMC
MCMC (2): MiX, EFHW
Galzria (1): ADK
faust (1): gkrieg
LaLight (1): Dylan
XxRaptorSlayer96 (1): Galzria
WestCoastDidds (1): Space
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on November 26th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
*Galzria has been prodded.
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@Swowlster - I would like to request a 1-irl day extension due to the fact eod is Thanksgiving in the states. :)
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*Microphone clicks on*
"Ahem... attention passengers, this is your Captain speaking. Well there is a first time for everything... but it seems that a.. uh, turkey has flown into the engine... believe it or not... the turkey actually made it... so I guess watch out for hulk-like turkeys this year.... which... saying it out loud actually, kind of fits perfectly into the vibe we have going for this year so far... so yeah.. Oh!, but it did do some damage to the engine, so we are going to have to take a slight layover in order to get that all sorted out."
Deadline is being pushed by 24 hours due to the Thanksgiving Holiday.
The new Deadline is Friday, November 27th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
HAPPY TURKEY DAY!!!
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
So did you intentionally say something that you thought was false for reactions? It's usually better to just stay quiet, because correcting someone on the internet is too enticing.
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Sorry - long weekend. Here and reading/catching up.
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Oh. Unvote lol. Seems my bulletproof case in the IC wasn’t gaining any traction.
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Why is mcmc voting without a reason a problem but faust doing the same isn't?
faust is faust, mcmc is not faust, and mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever. There's 2 things that can explain this, but one of them is simply that he's scum.
Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
This is a strange way to read into those votes.
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
Hmm, yeah, sure, this has even less explanation than your previous vote.
Who wants to vote mcmc with me?
When I voted faust I didn't realize lalight had moved off, I saw that galz had 3 and faust had 2, thought some interesting interactions could come from evening those wagons up at 3/3 look where people went. Nothing much happened, probably because that wagon was actually only me and gkreig.
I also was happy sheeping gkrieg and lalaight who are player when town I tend to trust. Since then Faust has acted as I expect town faust to act and the "wagon" is not helpful for interactions so I unvoted.
Seeing as Faust is reading as towny to me I like his space vote and I feel like Space's vote for didds isn't super valid which is a little scummy.
Why is faust reading townie to you?
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For the record, I'm against the Space votes: I reread Space, and what I saw of them was Space!Space with more self-awareness, which is NAI. Given their playstyle, it's also much easier to get scum!Space D2 and on whereas it's easier to misexile them D1. I also disagree with Space's vote on Didds, but it seems like a town!Space thing to do.
You're reading me correctly, which is nice :-) It's actually going to be impossible for you to catch a scum!Space D2 this game, though, because there isn't one to be caught!
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I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
I actually don't think I was behind your misexile(?) as often as I was behind your correct exile, but yes, I made people vote for you often :)
Ah, yes, misexiled! Or I've just been typing "mixiled" because it seems easier :-) Apologies for slipping back into the old terminology there.
Anyway, my point is that I got dead and you were mostly one of the ones to blame pretty much every time :-P
Wow, the original post in which I said this was a total quotefail at the time, and I've only just spotted it. It was meant to be picking out just the bits of conversation between me and gkrieg, which I hope I've gotten right in this reply now...
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Seeing as Faust is reading as towny to me I like his space vote and I feel like Space's vote for didds isn't super valid which is a little scummy.
a) Scum!faust will read towny, so is that really alignment indicative at all?
b) Voting for Didds is a totally reasonable gentle-protest-prod to ask her to vote. The sooner we get into wagon stuff, the sooner the game actually really begins, because nothing much beyond RVS is really happening yet.
c) Voting me in some kind of borrowed-omgus response is fine too, but just don't dress my vote up as something scummy when it's not. Galz was voting the actual IC until a few posts ago.
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
I guess I should have been clearer that LaLight got it right. Mainly it breaks down to faust not scumhunting when he is scum, but instead trying to do things to get other people to scumhunt, making him look townie without actually scumhunting.
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I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
I actually don't think I was behind your misexile(?) as often as I was behind your correct exile, but yes, I made people vote for you often :)
Ah, yes, misexiled! Or I've just been typing "mixiled" because it seems easier :-) Apologies for slipping back into the old terminology there.
Anyway, my point is that I got dead and you were mostly one of the ones to blame pretty much every time :-P
Wow, the original post in which I said this was a total quotefail at the time, and I've only just spotted it. It was meant to be picking out just the bits of conversation between me and gkrieg, which I hope I've gotten right in this reply now...
I got what you meant ;)
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Oh. Unvote lol. Seems my bulletproof case in the IC wasn’t gaining any traction.
Wait, are you now trying to claim that you didn't realize that raptor was the IC when you voted? Because your original post contradicts that:
MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?
Also, first.
Also, vote: Raptor for being IC. That’s no fun for me at all! (Note to those who don’t know: Twinclaim with Raptor).
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
I guess I should have been clearer that LaLight got it right. Mainly it breaks down to faust not scumhunting when he is scum, but instead trying to do things to get other people to scumhunt, making him look townie without actually scumhunting.
My point was that if you didn't have reasoning (because you were scum and just making things up) then lalight and dylan provided ones for you free of charge, which works against people trying to probe your line of thought to see if its genuine
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Hulk-like flying turkeys! That is about expected this year.... it regardless, good call on the deadline. I wouldn’t have realized until Thursday morning.
Galz, how did the reading and catching up go? Anything to share?
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Seeing as Faust is reading as towny to me I like his space vote and I feel like Space's vote for didds isn't super valid which is a little scummy.
a) Scum!faust will read towny, so is that really alignment indicative at all?
Yes, what's the point of reads anyway?
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
uhhh tempting...
Alright then Vote: Dylan
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
what does it mean?
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I've reread Dylan's post about 6 times now and i don't quite understand
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
what does it mean?
It means he did the thing im the first sentence and is accusing you of having done the thing in the second sentence.
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ohhhhhh right
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Planning to reread today.
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
what does it mean?
It means he did the thing im the first sentence and is accusing you of having done the thing in the second sentence.
Didn't reread yet, but how is it scummy to answer a question for someone?
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
what does it mean?
It means he did the thing im the first sentence and is accusing you of having done the thing in the second sentence.
Didn't reread yet, but how is it scummy to answer a question for someone?
I'd call it "anti-town" though not necessarily scummy. Dylan claiming that he was giving a bad answer on purpose to see if gkrieg would agree seems to me like something that Dylan came up with after the fact and is super scummy
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
Unless of course you do it using reasoning that you know is flawed or weak in order to see if the person just hides behind what you said instead of defending or explaining it themselves. It doesn't work when someone else actually offers a stronger explanation of it that they are then able to say "yeah this one is what I meant."
This is a cop-out
vote: dylan
what does it mean?
It means he did the thing im the first sentence and is accusing you of having done the thing in the second sentence.
Didn't reread yet, but how is it scummy to answer a question for someone?
I'd call it "anti-town" though not necessarily scummy. Dylan claiming that he was giving a bad answer on purpose to see if gkrieg would agree seems to me like something that Dylan came up with after the fact and is super scummy
I mean, I can see how that would sound like an after the fact explanation, but it's not. Regardless of whatever (admittedly bad in hindsight) reasoning I had for giving my interpretation, giving the explanation of my actions after the fact is absolutely not something scum!me would have done there. Answering for someone is almost always something that gets pointed out as not good (so why I convinced myself it was a good idea here, I don't really know), but it's literally never used in a serious case against someone after the early phases of D1, so I didn't feel any need to defend myself there, and scum!me would have actively chosen to ignore it and just pretend it didn't happen since everyone would have moved on with nothing more than a "answering for people is bad play." However, I decided to try to explain that I at least had a reason why I tried it, thus ensuring it would end up getting more scrutiny, which is exactly what scum doesn't want.
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
I guess I should have been clearer that LaLight got it right. Mainly it breaks down to faust not scumhunting when he is scum, but instead trying to do things to get other people to scumhunt, making him look townie without actually scumhunting.
This is interesting. I didn't get this from your earlier post. But faust is acumhunting.
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I did my reread. Going to stay with mcmc. Have beginnings of other ideas. Thinking LL, maybe. We'll see.
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Has everyone undone their RVS votes so we can see where we are?
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Then if Space is still the largest wagon, I'd love to hear something about how they seem scummy.
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Has everyone undone their RVS votes so we can see where we are?
If I'm still on LL, it was still my hello vote.
Then if Space is still the largest wagon, I'd love to hear something about how they seem scummy.
I would too, because mcmc, the last person on the wagon, was the only person who described any potentially scummy behavior in voting there. That includes faust who hopped on that wagon to sheep the IC and just followed ADK onto me.
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Vote Count 1.4:
Space (3): LaLight, XxRaptorSlayer96, MCMC
Dylan (2): ADK, faust
MCMC (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg
LaLight (1): Dylan
WestCoastDidds (1): Space
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galz
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on November 27th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Has everyone undone their RVS votes so we can see where we are?
I'm not sure. I think there's still traces of "this was my first vote" in mine.
I really need to reread this game. I kinda wish Galzria had talked more though.
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Vote: Galz
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Whoops, sorry about that.
I was going to say that I agree MiX. It would be nice to hear from him, especially since he said that he was reading and catching up
Vote: Galzy
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ok, I maybe am out of shape, but Space seems really scummy to me. I can even make a case, but tomorrow
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I would too, because mcmc, the last person on the wagon, was the only person who described any potentially scummy behavior in voting there. That includes faust who hopped on that wagon to sheep the IC and just followed ADK onto me.
or maybe you could find some scummy person to vote for on your own? I believe in you!
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And what is it with everyone going "uh i need to reread"? It's not like anything much happened folks, just go with the flow. Just feels like people trying to play up how much they engage with the game.
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I would too, because mcmc, the last person on the wagon, was the only person who described any potentially scummy behavior in voting there. That includes faust who hopped on that wagon to sheep the IC and just followed ADK onto me.
or maybe you could find some scummy person to vote for on your own? I believe in you!
faust, you regularly make me giggle. I love you for this.
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And what is it with everyone going "uh i need to reread"? It's not like anything much happened folks, just go with the flow. Just feels like people trying to play up how much they engage with the game.
I have been thinking about this. It seems like the new version of “I’m bad at D1”. Because everyone is bad at D1 and it feels like if we tried harder we could be better at it, but we can’t, not really, by virtue of the nature of the game. Scum are just trying not to be exiled so the odds of something really telling are small (especially with the general level of experience in this game). So instead of saying nothing, or going with more social interaction (my way!), there is a heads up that the game is on their radar but they don’t currently have anything to add.
TL;DR: I know, right?
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And what is it with everyone going "uh i need to reread"? It's not like anything much happened folks, just go with the flow. Just feels like people trying to play up how much they engage with the game.
I have been thinking about this. It seems like the new version of “I’m bad at D1”. Because everyone is bad at D1 and it feels like if we tried harder we could be better at it, but we can’t, not really, by virtue of the nature of the game.
No, it's true that we could be better at it. I've had great D1s on this site, but they don't happen if noone does anything.
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Alright, so this case is a bit weaksauce, but it does chime scummy bells for me quite louder than any other.
Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
This is when I voted Space first and the reason is "You don't scumread me this game". I did the same thing when I was scum, to joke about "let's make a deal of you not scumreading me" so the person will hesitate the next time they will want to vote you.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
Okay, but why? It feels like you said "yes" very enthusiastically but you didn't give a (good) reason. Is it just because faust is faust then, and nothing about this particular game?
Personally I think it's kinda futile to be suspicious of faust D1. You can keep him in your scumreads, but being suspicious of him isn't going to be very productive.
I'm enthusiastically invoking exactly the reason I explained there, which is that scum!faust played too well in the last game I was in. Honestly, there just isn't enough of this game yet to form any reads!
To be clear, I'm not scumreading faust right now, I'm just declaring that I expect to question his motives a lot.
A bit of distancing from forming an actual opinion.
Vote: Didds for not voting yet.
Also, Didds, I keep thinking of you every time I walk up to Port Meadow and it's flooded.. which it is pretty much all the time at the moment, and I go up there a couple of times a week on walks :-P
Quite a safe vote, although we're not in RVS any more. I don't like it.
I know that I haven’t voted! I did t realize I was the only one, though. I’m still salty about faust being tricksy....I don’t know folks from before well enough to say, and I always think EFHW is scum as she rarely is. I also tend to think lucky Galz is scummy, but that is often not true, too. My townie list is you, mix, ADK, and LL...but that isn’t much help at all.
I’ll follow the IC if it comes down to it, but there is such a wide spread right now and som any lingering RVSs that I’m not sure it really matters. I’ll work on it!
I think of you often, too...mostly because I could really, really use a thermal bath in Budapest right about now!
Hehe.. I fee like usually I'm one of the last ones left, and I always regret that later in games when I want to have some nice wagon analysis. Anyway, you should vote somewhere (even me if you want!) just so we can look at who else voted where when there have been a bunch of flips in the later game.
And yes, I would love to be back in Szechenyi Baths again! Still vaguely hoping it will be possible to return to Budapest before too many more years. I just hope all the cool little vegan restaurants and amazing escape rooms survive covid!
"even me if you want" is adding to Space's concern about voting and not voting them, pretty much in every post I can see that. Also, this must be the silliest thing, but "later in a game" assumes Space would be alive, which is for me a scum!mindset, because scum knows they won't be killed at night.
For the record, I'm against the Space votes: I reread Space, and what I saw of them was Space!Space with more self-awareness, which is NAI. Given their playstyle, it's also much easier to get scum!Space D2 and on whereas it's easier to misexile them D1. I also disagree with Space's vote on Didds, but it seems like a town!Space thing to do.
You're reading me correctly, which is nice :-) It's actually going to be impossible for you to catch a scum!Space D2 this game, though, because there isn't one to be caught!
Again, concern of people scumreading them.
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And what is it with everyone going "uh i need to reread"? It's not like anything much happened folks, just go with the flow. Just feels like people trying to play up how much they engage with the game.
I agree with all of this other than that people are trying to play anything up. I would guess it’s more likely townies saying they need to reread because they feel they must be missing something, scum I think is more likely to know the state of the game and the fact that it’s just overall slower.
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vote: mcmc
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vote: galz
Scum!Space is a much better lynch later day 2. Galz hasn’t been very helpful lately. I’ll be around later if he can change my mind.
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Sorry I missed yesterday -- work is hectic even if all the US people we work with have holidays this week :-P
My Didds vote wasn't exactly RVS, but it was definitely a protest vote rather than an I-want-to-exile-her vote.
@LL, your case on me is actually nicely put-together, but missing tons of context. I haven't played with Gkrieg for absolutely ages, and there really is a big history of him getting me killed, so the light-hearted alliance-making is basically a nod to that with a plea not to be to gung-ho about getting me killed this time round. The thing about faust is that the last game I played in, he was scum and played everyone, so I'm still a bit sore from that, especially because I was trying so hard to get people to vote correctly on the last day, but he persuaded the other townies to vote elsewhere instead, even though I was right :-( So yeah, I'm not going to trust him so easily for a while, but it's also a fact that I just don't have a reason to think he's scum here yet.
Anyway, if I'm moving my protest vote off of I'm very tempted to stumble straight into another sort-of-protest vote and go for Galz. It's really quite hypocritical of me, having just not posted in something like 48h, but his extended long absences really hurt town in that last game, so if there's a chance he's similarly time-constrained across this one, it's at least a least-bad exile.
Vote: Galz
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Vote Count 1.5:
MCMC (3): MiX, EFHW, ADK
Galzria (3): WestCoastDidds, XxRaptorSlayer96, Space
Space (2): LaLight, MCMC
Dylan (1): faust
faust (1): gkrieg
LaLight (1): Dylan
Not Voting (1): Galzria
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on November 27th at 5:20pm Forum Time. That is in roughly 24 hours!!!
HAPPY TURKEY DAY EVERYONE!!!!
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
So, why is mcmc a better exile than Galzy?
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
His availibility is always crap, and his non-presence now means he's going to be harder to read later on.
Things would go better here if we returned to a stricter "exile all lurkers" policy.
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Vote: Galzria
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
His availibility is always crap, and his non-presence now means he's going to be harder to read later on.
Things would go better here if we returned to a stricter "exile all lurkers" policy.
Not really, no. Wasn't it literally thanksgiving yesterday? Give him a break.
D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
So, why is mcmc a better exile than Galzy?
This feels like a completely different mcmc than what I remember, and I like his wagon. Problem is, I don't know if I'm trying to match him to his town game or his scum game...
There was also LL's case on Space, which is missing the fact that Space loves to reference previous games (same here btw) and some things are just reaching at straws. I wouldn't disagree that Space's case is probably the best case you can make, but that doesn't mean they're scummy, let alone scum.
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
His availibility is always crap, and his non-presence now means he's going to be harder to read later on.
Things would go better here if we returned to a stricter "exile all lurkers" policy.
Not really, no. Wasn't it literally thanksgiving yesterday? Give him a break.
I'm done giving breaks. How many games does Galzria need to ruin by lurking before it's not okay anymore? He did literally nothing for the whole of D1.
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inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
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I'm done giving breaks. How many games does Galzria need to ruin by lurking before it's not okay anymore? He did literally nothing for the whole of D1.
How many games did Galzria ruin? Last time I remember, he was active later in the game and thus didn't hurt the game enough to be considered ruined. If you want an example of a ruined game, see here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20470.0).
inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
Not a reason to exile someone. It is, however, a reason to prod and maybe modkill. Oh, that reminds me,
Prod: Galzria
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I'm done giving breaks. How many games does Galzria need to ruin by lurking before it's not okay anymore? He did literally nothing for the whole of D1.
How many games did Galzria ruin? Last time I remember, he was active later in the game and thus didn't hurt the game enough to be considered ruined. If you want an example of a ruined game, see here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20470.0).
inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
Not a reason to exile someone. It is, however, a reason to prod and maybe modkill. Oh, that reminds me,
Prod: Galzria
Anytime someone is eligible for a modkill, that ruins the game. The fact that maybe people are still able to continue playing doesn't excuse such behaviour. As a mod I have been put into situations multiple times where I had to replace Galzria, which is bothersome and puts significant workload on the player replacing in, and I am put into the situation where I have to ask people to make that sacrifice. Luckily there is usually someone willing to take that on, but if I hadn't found anyone those games had been ruined too.
Once I even asked Galzria, given his history, to provide a potential replacement when he signed up, and he just ignored that. Such interactions are one of the reasons I don"t mod as much as I used to.
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Not to mention that deciding on a modkill is always a decision that's going to cause backlash and is emotionally straining for a mod.
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vote: Galzria, i feel faust here
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vote: Galzria, i feel faust here
Vote: LaLight
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vote: Galzria, i feel faust here
Vote: LaLight
excuse me?
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vote: Galzria, i feel faust here
Vote: LaLight
excuse me?
This is X-2, 12 hours from deadline, a vote that ditches your case and the other viable wagon at the moment is now voting alone. This vote feels extremely opportunistic.
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vote: Galzria, i feel faust here
Vote: LaLight
excuse me?
This is X-2, 12 hours from deadline, a vote that ditches your case and the other viable wagon at the moment is now voting alone. This vote feels extremely opportunistic.
Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
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Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
To get on the Galz wagon? Why they would do this depends on where the rest of scum are, but still.
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
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Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
To get on the Galz wagon? Why they would do this depends on where the rest of scum are, but still.
To get on as a bus, you mean?
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Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
To get on the Galz wagon? Why they would do this depends on where the rest of scum are, but still.
I don't find it very believable that scum!LaLight would pour energy into a case on Space just to ditch it on a whim.
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
Why is it better to exile mcmc?
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everyone pretty much ignored my case, but if Space!exile gets traction, I'll be happy to return
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Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
To get on the Galz wagon? Why they would do this depends on where the rest of scum are, but still.
To get on as a bus, you mean?
It works both ways. I worded it like that to be as generic as possible.
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
His availibility is always crap, and his non-presence now means he's going to be harder to read later on.
Things would go better here if we returned to a stricter "exile all lurkers" policy.
Not really, no. Wasn't it literally thanksgiving yesterday? Give him a break.
D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
So, why is mcmc a better exile than Galzy?
This feels like a completely different mcmc than what I remember, and I like his wagon. Problem is, I don't know if I'm trying to match him to his town game or his scum game...
There was also LL's case on Space, which is missing the fact that Space loves to reference previous games (same here btw) and some things are just reaching at straws. I wouldn't disagree that Space's case is probably the best case you can make, but that doesn't mean they're scummy, let alone scum.
ADK... is your case on mcmc any different than MiX’s?
I’m mostly around today and can move my vote if need be. It strikes me as somewhat accurate that scum Galz would be more present than this, but I also share the general frustration with his absence and that this kind of absence is routine. The one compelling thing about EAL is that we aren’t losing much. Some chance the lurker is scum, but absent that, losing a no-show just it’s not as bad as losing an active player.
faust, I freaking love your RMM games. I 100% understand why modding is stressful and I can imagine that labor feels so unappreciated. I appreciate you! I hope you create more games!
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
Why is it better to exile mcmc?
He's not acting like town!mcmc, who tends to be more goal-oriented. He said he was rusty, which seems more of a scum concern. And presumably the replacement would contribute more than Galz is.
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D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
His availibility is always crap, and his non-presence now means he's going to be harder to read later on.
Things would go better here if we returned to a stricter "exile all lurkers" policy.
Not really, no. Wasn't it literally thanksgiving yesterday? Give him a break.
D1 Galz exiles are just wrong. His availability now does not have anything to do with his availability later.
Unlike mine; I think I'm just going to be really busy all game.
So, why is mcmc a better exile than Galzy?
This feels like a completely different mcmc than what I remember, and I like his wagon. Problem is, I don't know if I'm trying to match him to his town game or his scum game...
There was also LL's case on Space, which is missing the fact that Space loves to reference previous games (same here btw) and some things are just reaching at straws. I wouldn't disagree that Space's case is probably the best case you can make, but that doesn't mean they're scummy, let alone scum.
ADK... is your case on mcmc any different than MiX’s?
I’m mostly around today and can move my vote if need be. It strikes me as somewhat accurate that scum Galz would be more present than this, but I also share the general frustration with his absence and that this kind of absence is routine. The one compelling thing about EAL is that we aren’t losing much. Some chance the lurker is scum, but absent that, losing a no-show just it’s not as bad as losing an active player.
faust, I freaking love your RMM games. I 100% understand why modding is stressful and I can imagine that labor feels so unappreciated. I appreciate you! I hope you create more games!
My cast on mcmc was mostly a knee-jerk to the post immediately preceding it, which struck me as particularly empty. I'm almost always wrong about mcmc though, so I'm not married to the vote
I'm on board with the lurker exile (galz), especially since I doubt that scum!galz would be more active since in his recent town games he's gotten away with lurking pretty hard
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Though to clarify, if there's any possibility of replacement for galz I would prefer that, but we are very close to deadline
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Swowl - Are you open to replacing Galzria?
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Maybe Joth? Or Glooble?
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Vote: mcmc in the interest of wagoning. I'm fine with either mcmc or LL though.
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Why would scum!LaLight ditch their case?
To get on the Galz wagon? Why they would do this depends on where the rest of scum are, but still.
To get on as a bus, you mean?
It works both ways. I worded it like that to be as generic as possible.
My initial reaction to lalight’s vote was that it’s a bad move for scum!lalight to jump on the town!galz wagon because it probably goes through without scum help, and scum!lalight never jumps on scum!galz there. But honestly I’m not sure scum hates being on an easy lurker lunch early, as scum I tend to avoid town wagons I didn’t start a little too much. Overall to say I don’t think lalights vote for galz is very alignment indicative at all.
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Sorry. My availability at deadline is going to be pretty bad. I don’t think the case on space is very good, I still feel like faust is scummy, EFHW (who I feel like I can usually read well) doesn’t read as anything to me yet. Would definitely be on board for galz. Vote: Galz. I don’t read mcmc as scummy but also don’t read him as townie. Would also vote for Mix. None of my reads are very strong though.
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Not counting but that might be X-1
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Now after counting it is definitely X-1 on galz
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I'd like to see Swowl's response on willingness to replace Galz, though on balance I think unvoting till that happens isn't good, because as it stands now, at least we have a nice analysable wagon of people willing to push Galz, and that may or may not be useful later on as we get flips.
I agree that LL's iffy case on me and willingness to jump off the wagon doesn't actually look scummy particularly, though I'll be keeping my eye on them anyway. Maybe like 10% as much as I'm keeping my eye on faust, though.
I don't feel like I know mcmc quite well enough to feel EFHW's case really. The only person giving me scum vibes is MiX, and I think that's pretty NAI.
It would be good to hear more from Dylan and Raptor, since other than Galz I feel like they're the ones we're not hearing much from.
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As much as I hate raptor's vote (and the Galz wagon (holy hell he's at X-1, why)), he's doing a perfectly good job as an IC, and I don't think he needs to say more. Dylan does though, is he even scumreading who he's voting for?
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Yikes. Time slips away.
Going to grab a coffee, then here until deadline today.
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Alright. Here we go.
Gonna go with more of a Mixian approach here - rapid fire responses to everything as I go - rather than my normal style of writing a book.
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The hijackers would be the ones in masks.
EFHW gets a day pass for this joke!
Can somebody point me to a time when faust (even jokingly) gave day passes in the past?
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MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?
Also, first.
Also, vote: Raptor for being IC. That’s no fun for me at all! (Note to those who don’t know: Twinclaim with Raptor).
Last time you asked this, you knew I wasn't scum and hammered me anyway. Does it matter what you believe in anymore?
vote: Raptor
lame
vote: galz
You’re lame.
But are you also lame?
Fun Fact: I have an excel sheet with every game I've ever asked you this, along with your response, tagged to your alignment for the game. It's more telling than you might think.
Oh, and I'm probably definitely lame.
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Galz can’t be super lame, yet, since he got the game to actually start.
Where did he do that?
This is a townie-ADK style follow up question.
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Galz can be sorta lame, voting the IC's boring, and he made an easy RVS target on himself.
Pfft - My case on the IC was perfect. Not my fault y'all didn't wanna join me! Had everybody joined me in lynching IC!Robz D1 last game we might have actually won...
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Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
This is an interesting approach from WCD. Not sure how I feel about it. It's really early in the game to be caring all that much about where people are turning their attention. Why so controlling so early?
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8 am classes?!! How are you surviving at all. I think of you as part vampire, kind of sleep deprived drunk at 3am. This sounds like a devastating schedule for you. But yes....almost over! Thank goodness semesters are not eternal.
Ohhhh....better ideas! Exciting! I’m here for it.
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust him has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
Don't worry, I haven't been awake at 3 am for a long time. That would not...be possible, lol.
I like that you're thinking about ADK, I was also interested by them, and wanted to say something relevant about them. Unfortunately, from their posts all I know is that they're still ADK. Which I suppose is good news, but nothing amazing.
Again, what's with the early desire to turn things to ADK?
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Robz hasn't ever been great at reads, imo. His best mafia talents are persuasion and subterfuge. He really excels there. Should I have said something? It seemed rude.
This would've been a great conversation for the other game's D1, but not this one. I still regret not having started it.
You could start a conversation about Raptor's reads instead!
This is the exact moving the game forward that faust does as scum, but it is very hard for people to call him scum for it, because it helps town and then you look anti-town for saying faust is scummy for doing something townie. vote: faust
I've been historically pretty good at reading faust as a game progresses (but usually bad D1). Last game was somewhat an exception to this, where I read his play as very townie and he was scum... but even there I had him pegged as scum by PoE on VCA.
To your point, you're not entirely wrong. ADK questions in the next post if faust wouldn't also do this as town... and the answer isn't super clear. town!faust tends to be a little more aloof and does things his own way for his own reasons. Honestly it could come from scum or town faust.
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Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead. If I trusted them more, we’d win more often. I think my inability to trust the, has cost us (me) at least three games. I have the same problem with EFHW, but I usually can get free of that before it’s too late. Not so much for the stabby pumpkin kitten.
ADK! How are you and how are things?
I'm okay
Is there a reason you don't want to talk about galz? If anything given how lurky his games have been lately I think that trying to force some activity out of him would be a good thing
Oh, I wouldn’t say that I don’t want to talk about Galz ever, just that there isn’t much to say yet. But then again, we aren’t even 24 hours in, so that’s true for everyone, I guess
I like ADK calling WCD out for this and eliciting a response - one that basically admits the arbitrary nature of her initial post.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
This seems like such a non-logical approach, which seems extremely not!Space. Not sure if that makes them scummy or not. Not sure what would cause them to change up their approach.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
If you team up with gkrieg then I'll team up with ADK!
Bleh.
Not sure - but would put money on at least one of these being scum. I know there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek going on here, and it reads pretty facetiously to me, but both feel off nonetheless.
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vote: mcmc. I thought the faust vote was a little weird, too. You don't need a reason if it's RVS, and if it's not RVS, it's pretty early to be sheeping.
This is weird to me - Isn't early D1 sheeping exactly the BEST time to be sheeping for no reason? Reads aren't really established, you're just coming out of RVS, and wagons are good.
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Townread on mix, which means he's probably scum
I'm going to be looking for more detail on this read as I progress. But I don't like the hedgy-nature of this sort of post.
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It’s good to be able to actually do that again lol.
I hope that this is gonna be the catchphrase of 2021.
Damn faust, you're not wrong. Lots of +1's for you.
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Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
Does faust's alignment last game have any direct impact on his alignment this game? Doesn't seem a bit... odd?... to be overly suspicious of him for no reason other than he was scum last game? I mean, what your suggesting is beyond meta. It seems you're saying isn't "He's scummy here because his play mirrors his play from last game where he was scum", but instead "He's scummy here because he was scum last game".
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vote: mcmc. I thought the faust vote was a little weird, too. You don't need a reason if it's RVS, and if it's not RVS, it's pretty early to be sheeping.
Never too early to sheep or to wagon build huzzah
Aren't you the only one on faust's wagon by now? Besides, I checked, and there was only 1 vote on faust when you voted.
Am I remembering correctly that gkrieg usually scumreads faust (when he isn't scumreading me and vice versa?)?
I would say the four people I'm best at reading is faust, Space, you, and LaLight.
Wanna make a deal? You don't scumread me this game, and I join you in being super-suspicious of faust.
Interesting deal: do you think faust deserves you being super-suspicious of them right now?
O, absolutely! I mean, you were actually there last game to see scum!faust being super-tricksy. I won't trust him as far as I could throw him this game, even if he does turn out to be really townie.
I guess weren't around in my rather dismal early f.ds mafia career where I got mislynched a lot of times, usually with gkrieg being an enthusiastic participant, but he and I have quite a long history, so it's nice to start this game out cordially :-)
Okay, but why? It feels like you said "yes" very enthusiastically but you didn't give a (good) reason. Is it just because faust is faust then, and nothing about this particular game?
Personally I think it's kinda futile to be suspicious of faust D1. You can keep him in your scumreads, but being suspicious of him isn't going to be very productive.
Howdy friends.... well, the good news is that I survived the wilderness. And looks like I didn’t miss much.
faust IS tricksy! What a perfect descriptor. But also gives me hope about the hopeful theme of 2021.
ADK, I said I was turning over a new leaf! Let’s coalition-build!
Wait why did you mention ADK all of the sudden?
as I understand it: you know what is considered townie. when you're town, you don't care, you scumhunt more than try to look town, when you're scum, you're trying to look town and make things most people consider town things. Another vivid examples of people doing exactly that are Awaclus and MiX
This is all well and nice textual analysis but it's all a bit pointless if gkrieg doesn't answer himself. I am not really interested in further discussing things gkrieg might have meant.
Isn't your own first response to this also pointless then? People like to do analysis, it's fun, even if useless.
This game is weird. Looking forward for mcmc to explain what he's doing this game, and for Galzria to actually vote people.
So much of this is spot on.
MiX gets the same call on Space that I did regarding faust. He also gets the same call on WCD for her odd affixation with ADK.
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Galz is probably town I guess. I should vote elsewhere...
Vote: gkrieg
So you're voting for me because you should just vote somewhere else?
It's actually a town!faust-y thing to do - not the unvoting me here, but the voting you (or anywhere) without reason. His votes (especially early) rarely have any real reason - all he's doing is sussing out reactions.
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Vote: Didds for not voting yet.
Also, Didds, I keep thinking of you every time I walk up to Port Meadow and it's flooded.. which it is pretty much all the time at the moment, and I go up there a couple of times a week on walks :-P
Not voting yet is so in character for town didds though
Is it? I'm not convinced by that argument. I would need to do some research.
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
Ouch. A little harsh! I don't think any player here would ever intentionally throw a game. Even some of the more controversial plays that have been made (look at some of Ash's plays) have been made within the context of winning the game currently being played - even if they don't always feel like it!
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Does faust's alignment last game have any direct impact on his alignment this game? Doesn't seem a bit... odd?... to be overly suspicious of him for no reason other than he was scum last game? I mean, what your suggesting is beyond meta. It seems you're saying isn't "He's scummy here because his play mirrors his play from last game where he was scum", but instead "He's scummy here because he was scum last game".
You're making the same mistake I've already corrected others for, but my declaring that I'm going to be suspicious of faust is not the same as scumreading him. What I'm saying is essentially "for people who weren't in that last game (e.g. including folks like gkrieg), we've just had a great reminder of how townie scum!faust can look, so remember to read him very carefully". But saying I'm going to treat him with suspicion seemed shorter, and was also a nice way of saying a personal hello to gkrieg after quite a long time not playing with each other.
For reference, gkrieg is another of those players (like LL, faust and WCD) whom I've met in person and gotten on well with, which may explain some of the special treatment :-P
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Prod: Galz
I appreciate this. Also
Request prod on mcmc.
It's also been more than 48 hours.
I’m here, I’m reading. I don’t have many thoughts, been awhile and I’m a little rusty. Unvote as I actually think you are towny, I like your responses to some stuff so far. I could join a vote: space
Hmm, yeah, sure, this has even less explanation than your previous vote.
Who wants to vote mcmc with me?
I feel like I'm the only one who ever town reads Mcmc for being Mcmc. Like, I think he's a classically misread player. 90% of the time I'm reading him as town, he's receiving a ton of negative responses.
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Why is mcmc voting without a reason a problem but faust doing the same isn't?
faust is faust, mcmc is not faust, and mcmc's voting has been the most lazy of votings ever. There's 2 things that can explain this, but one of them is simply that he's scum.
Besides, faust's reason looks more like moving away from gkrieg, mcmc's more sheeping.
This is a strange way to read into those votes.
I'm reading through MiX's thoughts on Mcmc and I just feel like maybe MiX doesn't have the same history with Mcmc that I have. I think where he's giving faust a pass for certain play but criticizing Mcmc comes from a lack of familiarity.
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Oh. Unvote lol. Seems my bulletproof case in the IC wasn’t gaining any traction.
Wait, are you now trying to claim that you didn't realize that raptor was the IC when you voted? Because your original post contradicts that:
MiX, why should I believe that you’re not scum this game?
Also, first.
Also, vote: Raptor for being IC. That’s no fun for me at all! (Note to those who don’t know: Twinclaim with Raptor).
I think you misunderstand me. Yes, I knew he was IC. My point that my case was bulletproof was facetious.
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
Ouch. A little harsh! I don't think any player here would ever intentionally throw a game. Even some of the more controversial plays that have been made (look at some of Ash's plays) have been made within the context of winning the game currently being played - even if they don't always feel like it!
I was glad to have that concern allayed. It was hard not to wonder given the similarity in play between the two games. I didn't realize others frowned upon it as much as I would. Sorry for creating negativity in our community atmosphere.
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@EFHW We're talking about gkrieg's comment here, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857530#msg857530) and he does respond to faust here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20564.msg857684#msg857684) by saying "the people who answered for me got it right", which is why answering for other people is bad
I guess I should have been clearer that LaLight got it right. Mainly it breaks down to faust not scumhunting when he is scum, but instead trying to do things to get other people to scumhunt, making him look townie without actually scumhunting.
My point was that if you didn't have reasoning (because you were scum and just making things up) then lalight and dylan provided ones for you free of charge, which works against people trying to probe your line of thought to see if its genuine
I think it goes both ways. I agree that by other players answering questions not directed at them, they provide answers/reasons/outs for the initial questionee. That said, they also put themselves out there and establish their position/opinion. What you lose in forming a read on Gkrieg, you gain in forming reads on lalight and Dylan.
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Thanks. Day 1 is hard, but I hope we can be done with that topic for a little while now.
I have a question for faust. Did you purposely throw that game where we both town either to switch up or meta or to set the stage for misexiling the next time you were scum?
Ouch. A little harsh! I don't think any player here would ever intentionally throw a game. Even some of the more controversial plays that have been made (look at some of Ash's plays) have been made within the context of winning the game currently being played - even if they don't always feel like it!
I was glad to have that concern allayed. It was hard not to wonder given the similarity in play between the two games. I didn't realize others frowned upon it as much as I would. Sorry for creating negativity in our community atmosphere.
No negativity or ill-thoughts over on my side! I just wanted to add my thoughts that I love and trust you all and don't think anybody here would do that!
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And what is it with everyone going "uh i need to reread"? It's not like anything much happened folks, just go with the flow. Just feels like people trying to play up how much they engage with the game.
I have been thinking about this. It seems like the new version of “I’m bad at D1”. Because everyone is bad at D1 and it feels like if we tried harder we could be better at it, but we can’t, not really, by virtue of the nature of the game. Scum are just trying not to be exiled so the odds of something really telling are small (especially with the general level of experience in this game). So instead of saying nothing, or going with more social interaction (my way!), there is a heads up that the game is on their radar but they don’t currently have anything to add.
TL;DR: I know, right?
Yeah... I'm probably pretty guilty of this.d
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Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
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Vote: Space
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And/Or Vote: Faust - either one is easily a better exile than mine here.
Mcmc reads town to me - would prefer not to lynch there. ADK also reads pretty townie overall.
My wagon:
WCD (first vote, been mix of scummy and townie so far D1 - wouldn't be surprised to find she's town, but she's not my top pick here)
Raptor (clearly scum. Nobody wants to do that though, so.)
Space (Most likely to be scum - easy vote, follows IC, no real consequences - also been scummy in general)
faust (Basically same spot as Space here. If Space ISN'T scum, almost certainly faust is. Absolutely expect scum in one of these two spots).
LaLight (I have the smallest read on him of any player in the game at this point. Between that lack of read and his positioning here, I would place him in the next tier down from faust/Space)
Gkrieg (Not convinced scum likes to be here for no reason at this point. Especially with what is likely already one scum on wagon. Better to just let things simmer - my exile looked pretty well setup without his help)
MiX's defending of me, while appreciated, is also scummy.
Almost certainly one scum in {faust, Space}.
Probably one scum in {LaLight, MiX}.
Last scum amongst {WCD, ADK, gkrieg, Dylan, Mcmc, Efoo}
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Vote: galzria
Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know.
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Vote: galzria
Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know.
Pretty sure that was the hammer
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Vote: galzria
Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know.
Pretty sure that was the hammer
Yep. This is what happens when you put someone at X-1 with only 1 other wagon, and that wagon isn't voting for the X-1'd person.
I saw that Galzria came back and said stuff. But obviously he was hammered anyway, since LL's vote meant Galzria was today's exile.
Good night everyone.
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Great job hammering the Cop. Good luck town.
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Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
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Great job hammering the Cop. Good luck town.
Uuuuuuh
Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
You should've claimed that instantly, not as a breadcrumb.
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Vote: galzria
Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know.
Pretty sure that was the hammer
Yep, when I hand-counted I somehow missed gkrieg's vote, but now I've got my vote counter up and running, this is what I get:
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
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Great job hammering the Cop. Good luck town.
Uuuuuuh
Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
You should've claimed that instantly, not as a breadcrumb.
I hate claiming PR’s. I would’ve straight claimed VT before claiming to be the cop.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners.
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Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
You should've claimed that instantly, not as a breadcrumb.
I think that expecting the whole thread to pick that up after you'd just filled the thread with 26 other stream-of-consciousness re-read posts when you were already on X-1 was a bit optimistic.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners.
[/quote
were you aware that you hammered?
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Oops. You get the idea.
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Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
You should've claimed that instantly, not as a breadcrumb.
I think that expecting the whole thread to pick that up after you'd just filled the thread with 26 other stream-of-consciousness re-read posts when you were already on X-1 was a bit optimistic.
expecting the whole thread except for the sucm team to pick it up :D
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
Nice. Leave yourself that 30% to be “wrong”. Lol.
Sorry town, maybe I should’ve been more clear. I just never, ever claim there. My Exile is beyond hilariously bad.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
Nice. Leave yourself that 30% to be “wrong”. Lol.
Sorry town, maybe I should’ve been more clear. I just never, ever claim there. My Exile is beyond hilariously bad.
Well if you're town then you have noone but yourself to blame. I have no regrets.
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10/10 would exile again.
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Holy wagon-filled-with-scum-batman!
What an easy-ass cop out lynch.
Yeah! LaL! The IC is onboard too! Wheeeee! Free lynch!!!
You should've claimed that instantly, not as a breadcrumb.
I think that expecting the whole thread to pick that up after you'd just filled the thread with 26 other stream-of-consciousness re-read posts when you were already on X-1 was a bit optimistic.
I didn’t expect it to get picked up. I expected people to realize how dumb exiling me here is. The reasons and justifications behind it are just god-awful.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
Nice. Leave yourself that 30% to be “wrong”. Lol.
Sorry town, maybe I should’ve been more clear. I just never, ever claim there. My Exile is beyond hilariously bad.
Well if you're town then you have noone but yourself to blame. I have no regrets.
Surprise hot take from faust!
Lol
10/10 would play the same again.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners.
[/quote
were you aware that you hammered?
Yep
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10/10 would play the same again.
I guess I'm just going to need to avoid playing with you then.
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Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum.
I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners.
were you aware that you hammered?
Yep
Oops but yes I did. I guess I should have voiced intent and allowed time for a claim. I’ll be honest I forgot that’s the thing we do, as I said rusty.
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10/10 would play the same again.
I guess I'm just going to need to avoid playing with you then.
Woah or one of you is scum and it’s unnecessary. Also I think galz “would play the same” is in reference to his crumb as opposed to outright claim and I don’t think one of you is more correct than the other in regards to how to play that. If you are referring to his lurking and coming in with a few hours till deadline I agree that’s a poor town strategy and I understand you have some more reasons as stated before to be frustrated about it.
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The reasons and justifications behind it are just god-awful.
I think you may be underestimating the genuine frustration a lot of players feel when you're absent for so long from so many games. Yes, it's bad to policy-exile someone instead of have genuine scumreads, and we're wasting our chance to exile actual scum if you are indeed a town PR. However, in the absence of decent cases or evidence, I'm honestly not surprised at all that most people are so willing to exile a player they know will often cause town difficulties later on as any alignment.
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I can be clear my vote is a scum read
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I can be clear my vote is a scum read
To be clear myself:
I find the vote without asking for a claim or intent to hammer to be scummy. That was a mistake by you for sure. But, overall, I don’t think it changes my general read on you.
Faust is almost 100% scum. Like, he’s already trying to argue why my Exile doesn’t implicate him. He knows I’m going to flip town.
My read between LaLight and MiX is a little less certain, but I feel good about them anyway.
That just leaves one - and I don’t THINK it’s you.
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"Who could it be?!?!", clamors the passengers on the plane.
"Everyone quiet! I am the sheriff of these skies and I am telling you it is that one right there!", Raptor says, pointing accusingly at Galzria.
"No way!" says EFHW and Dylan, "He has literally been asleep the entire flight so far! It simply cannot be them!"
Lalight walks over with gkrieg to wake up Galzria....
"Hey! Wake up! We have to talk to you!"
Galzria wakes up walks a little down the aisle... listening to all of the accusations being thrown their way... "No... no you have it all wrong! It isn't me!"
Just then MCMC stands up and yells "He will say anything to save his own skin!". After one awkward moment of silence MCMC follows suit by Chuck Norris kicking Galzria out of the plane door!
"Well what in the hell did you do that for????" exclaim the passengers!
Just then the Microphone clicks on....
"Howdy there again folks, this is your Captain. So... I have some interesting news for you lot...."
Galzria has been lynched! They were Highjacker 11, the Mafia Aligned Godfather.
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Vote Count 1.Final:
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
LaLight (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria
Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Night 1 starts now and ends on November 29th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
Please submit Night Actions within 36 hours.
THREAD LOCKED!
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The cabin lights turn on and the passengers start to wake up from their naps.
"I cannot believe we managed to find one of them", WCD says yawning Space, "It is such a huge relief!"
"I know right! We should celebrate!", responds Space.
WCD turns to Lalight and gkrieg sitting across the aisle, "Hey you guys wanna do some celebratory mimosas?!?!"
"Hell yeah!", they respond in unison!
Lalight stands up and looks over the chair in front of them, "Yo faust! You wanna get in on this?"
.... "wait a second... where is faust? Hey! Has anyone seen faust!?!?!?!?"
faust has been killed at Night. They were Passenger 51, the Vanilla Townie.
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Vote Count 2.0:
Not Voting (10): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, LaLight, MCMC, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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This looks good for town!
Galz's flip is sadly the least-informative one scum could have given us, because we're guaranteed a Godfather in the setup, and it doesn't help us corroborate any town roles that claim later, in terms of how many of those we can expect.
Faust drawing the NK was great from the point of view of them targeting a VT rather than a PR, though sad because it's perpetuating the thing about an alive faust being a scummy faust. I wonder if there are certain players who'd be less likely to kill off faust so soon for meta reasons, and others who'd want him out of the way regardless.
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Back just before post #50, Galz had a three-person wagon of ADK, Raptor and faust. Then in post #50, Didds had this to say:
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead.
Galz's wagon fizzles out completely at #158, when ADK moves off onto Dylan. I think they have reasonable justification for doing that, though a slightly odd sort of scrutiny post on Galz in the post immediately beforehand. It just feels a bit weird to seriously ask the person you're voting for a clarification question and then immediately remove the vote with no response.
Didds herself restarts the Galz wagon at #179, and this time it runs all the way up to exile, though ADK never rejoins.
I can't decide if I think Didds gets scumpoints for trying to deflect from Galz (which ADK called her on shortly afterwards), or ADK gets scumpoints for being on the safe early wagon but not the actual exile wagon. There's also MiX, who pointed out at #177 that he wishes Galz had talked more, which was what had spurred Didds to make her vote at #179, but MiX himself is also absent from the Galz wagon, having said that D1 Galz exiles are "just wrong" at #192.
Re-reading a little more, I think I'm feeling townier on Didds, and maybe scummy on MiX. MiX seemed to be actively looking for Galz alternatives, including voting LL after LL's Galz vote, and sending Galz another prod at #199 instead of engaging with the EAL brigade, and also moving onto mcmc as a viable-looking alternative. In the end, both MiX and ADK were around at mcmc's hammer, so either could have had the opportunity to vote there, but chose not to take it.
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
I'm working on a scum!mcmc theory. Still has some holes, though.
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I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.
I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.
How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?
PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!
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Okay, good job in exiling scum, I guess. I'll take my scummy hat today for basically defending the Galz exile all day.
faust is town, raptor is town (good job guys), Didds is town, LL is town, mcmc is town...almost all of the Galz wagon's town, I don't think scum's pushing that ever.
Vote: EFHW 's in the best possible spot for scum: outside the scum wagon, on the counterwagon, not directly tied to the Galz wagon on either side. If scum's on it, it would be either Space or gkrieg, which have the best bus spot and the least impactful vote.
Galz's flip is sadly the least-informative one scum could have given us, because we're guaranteed a Godfather in the setup, and it doesn't help us corroborate any town roles that claim later, in terms of how many of those we can expect.
On the other hand, this is one of the best wagons to get information out of.
Re-reading a little more, I think I'm feeling townier on Didds, and maybe scummy on MiX. MiX seemed to be actively looking for Galz alternatives, including voting LL after LL's Galz vote, and sending Galz another prod at #199 instead of engaging with the EAL brigade, and also moving onto mcmc as a viable-looking alternative. In the end, both MiX and ADK were around at mcmc's hammer, so either could have had the opportunity to vote there, but chose not to take it.
I agree that Didds looks townie, and yes, I was looking for alternatives: when LL voted, the exile was inevitably going to be Galzria, so I wanted another wagon.
I don't see why you're looking at me and ADK not hammering: I'm confused as to why mcmc hammered when he did, it was early enough to have an actual conversation with Galzria. Not to mention I was still reading Galzria's posts when mcmc hammered, lol.
There wasn't much to "engage with the EAL brigade", what did you want me to do?
There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
I would be shocked if both scum were bussing.
There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
I'm working on a scum!mcmc theory. Still has some holes, though.
Hmm...I guess I can see it. The other scum would have to be sleeping too though, maybe Dylan? Because the Space wagon died so fast, and there were no other town wagons if mcmc's scum.
I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.
I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.
I agree with this post so much.
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I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.
I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.
How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?
PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!
I think scum kills on wagon because they're hoping to keep all the off-wagon people alive for misexile and they're banking on on-wagon town not suspecting the other on-wagon players
MiX is basically an IC for me at this point, no way does MiX not bus his partner in that position
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Back just before post #50, Galz had a three-person wagon of ADK, Raptor and faust. Then in post #50, Didds had this to say:
Let’s ignore all things Galzy and think about ADK instead.
Galz's wagon fizzles out completely at #158, when ADK moves off onto Dylan. I think they have reasonable justification for doing that, though a slightly odd sort of scrutiny post on Galz in the post immediately beforehand. It just feels a bit weird to seriously ask the person you're voting for a clarification question and then immediately remove the vote with no response.
Didds herself restarts the Galz wagon at #179, and this time it runs all the way up to exile, though ADK never rejoins.
I can't decide if I think Didds gets scumpoints for trying to deflect from Galz (which ADK called her on shortly afterwards), or ADK gets scumpoints for being on the safe early wagon but not the actual exile wagon. There's also MiX, who pointed out at #177 that he wishes Galz had talked more, which was what had spurred Didds to make her vote at #179, but MiX himself is also absent from the Galz wagon, having said that D1 Galz exiles are "just wrong" at #192.
Re-reading a little more, I think I'm feeling townier on Didds, and maybe scummy on MiX. MiX seemed to be actively looking for Galz alternatives, including voting LL after LL's Galz vote, and sending Galz another prod at #199 instead of engaging with the EAL brigade, and also moving onto mcmc as a viable-looking alternative. In the end, both MiX and ADK were around at mcmc's hammer, so either could have had the opportunity to vote there, but chose not to take it.
The is the second or third time someone has mentioned that line. I was frustrated by Galz is lame, no you’re lame, so lame vote Galz, scum can be lame... it was a nothing conversation between faust, ADK, mix, and Galz and I wasn’t inspired by it. That message was directed at MiX and he had been part of it, so I was suggesting we move away from that.
Later, when I voted for Galz, it was because I found his check in with responding to my question about it super sketch.
-
MiX, you seem oddly salty about Galz being scum? Did you not do the dance of joy???
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Checking in. I'll have thoughts tomorrow. Moving in a week and have been busy getting stuff ready for that + holidays.
-
vote: mcmc
that was exactly the right spot in the right time to hammer your partner
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MiX, you seem oddly salty about Galz being scum? Did you not do the dance of joy???
I'm not sure if it was joy. I kinda hated that the exile was justified by his flip, but I'm happy that the game's that much easier for us. It was mostly me throwing away all of my reads, since I made them thinking Galz would flip town.
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MiX, you seem oddly salty about Galz being scum? Did you not do the dance of joy???
I'm not sure if it was joy. I kinda hated that the exile was justified by his flip, but I'm happy that the game's that much easier for us. It was mostly me throwing away all of my reads, since I made them thinking Galz would flip town.
It was unexpected joy! But joy nonetheless. We'll have to work on your dance...
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I can be clear my vote is a scum read
mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?
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Thoughts on mcmc. First, here's a rundown of his posts Day 1.
75 v. faust wagon building
84 nvr too early to sheep or wagon build
132 Here, not many thoughts. Feeling rusty. unvote faust, towny. Join v. Space.
138 Explains faust vote in terms of who was on what wagons. Hoped to generate interesting interactions. Tends to trust gkrieg and LL when they are town. Happy to sheep them. Didn't like Space's vote for Didds.
139 " yea if I am criticizing my own vote it looks more like I moved off of Faust because it went nowhere than gkrieg. I mean I'm sheeping the person I was voting, that looks dodgier than faust moving. I think that means mix is towny? Scum probably tries to say my Faust vote is disingenious."
143 Space has been more jokey. He has missed being on the forum.
188 Explaining why people say they need to reread. "scum I think is more likely to know the state of the game and the fact that it’s just overall slower."
222 Scum!LL never jumps on scum!Galz there. But maybe scum like easy lurker exiles. NAI.
239 v. Galz. "Thanks for the thoughts and the correct read on me. I do think you read me well however I think you don’t really need to guess this game as you already know." Hammer.
280 Oops, forgot to give chance to claim. Rusty
268 faust says "Lol yeah. I'm like 70% that Glazria will flip scum." mcmc says "I hope so but don’t think galz fake claims here. Though if scum it is a good attempt to sus out more information for his partners."
281 Peacemaking between Galz and faust.
283 "I can be clear my vote is a scum read"
First off, the hammer, and the snarky "I know you are scum so don't deny it" tone come out of the blue in that he made no statements of opinion on Galz's alignment before 222. In that post, it sounds to me like he did know Galz was scum and was trying to defend LL in that context.
268 is really confusing. He seems to be saying that while he hopes faust is right, he thinks Galz is town because Scum!Galz doesn't fakeclaim here. Why not? Then he says if scum, it would be good play. But he was already talking about "if scum". So it's like he doesn't remember what stance he pretended to have on Galz. Then in 283 reaffirms his confident scumread.
The 7 posts before 222 have a lot of explaining in them. Why he voted faust. Why he moved to Space. Why people would think that was scummy (139 reads really scummy to me, especially the MiX towny part). Why people say they need to reread. But this is where I run into trouble. The second part of 188, like 168, doesn't really fit what he was saying. And scum say they have to reread ALL the time. Scummy. But then I remembered that town!mcmc can be this way - where his posts don't fit together logically to my ear - and I usually scumread him for it.
But I'm still going to
Vote: mcmc
because the whole picture is scummy, not just 168 and 188.
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That's some solid effort on a Monday morning, EFHW! Thank you.
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Vote Count 2.1:
MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Vote Count 2.1:
MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
There are two EFHWs and no mcmcs voting in this VC, which rather confused me :-P
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I can be clear my vote is a scum read
mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?
Yep, this is a key question, and one I think I'd like to see an answer to from mcmc himself before I post more thoughts.
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Vote Count 2.1:
MCMC (2): LaLight, EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): ADK, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
There are two EFHWs and no mcmcs voting in this VC, which rather confused me :-P
Thnks Space! Fixed.
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I can be clear my vote is a scum read
mcmc...can you tell us what you found scummy about Galz?
Yep, this is a key question, and one I think I'd like to see an answer to from mcmc himself before I post more thoughts.
Galz is correct that he reads me better than most, we have played together along time. My scum read was a gut feeling that I was being buddied. Galz choosing to be sure to respond to the couple votes I had gotten and express his town read on me struck me as off and hollow. Felt much more like scum!Galz buddying me than it did town!Galz wanting to express his town read on me.
Town!Galz isn’t as concerned about town!mcmc voting for him as scum!Galz is. Scum!galz has to take the time to defend himself and make sure I decide to take up the cause and defend him as well swinging the exhile to a third party.
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Sorry busy day. Will get to this tomorrow. We got one!
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vote: gkrieg
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
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I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.
I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.
How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?
PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!
Exactly what Space said at the top of their post. I think it is rather unlikely that there were both scum on wagon.
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Vote: EFHW 's in the best possible spot for scum: outside the scum wagon, on the counterwagon, not directly tied to the Galz wagon on either side. If scum's on it, it would be either Space or gkrieg, which have the best bus spot and the least impactful vote.
How is putting someone to E-1 saying that I won't be around for the deadline the least impactful vote?
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I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
Do you really think that scum would have killed on-waggon, when the IC was also on-waggon, if both of the remaining pair were there too? For me and others in my position, that means that of the four alignment-uncertain other people on the wagon, 50% are scum. I think that's too bold an assumption.
I do think that mcmc's hammer and subsequent claim that it was because of a definite scumread, rather than the lurker-exile some of us were supporting, should be considered as a possible grab for townpoints from a scumbuddy. However, at the time Raptor and I voted for Galz, mcmc was the leading alternative. It wasn't until conf!town!faust put Galz up to four votes, quickly followed my LaLight, that Galz looked to be seriously in jeopardy... so maybe you can give a bit more scrutiny to gkrieg or mcmc for their very late-on-the-wagon votes, but I think it would be surprising if they're both scum.
How do you feel about MiX's attempts to get people to vote away from Galz around the times that faust, LL and gkrieg all voted for Galz?
PPE 1: yes, EFHW is also apparently looking scummily at mcmc!
I think scum kills on wagon because they're hoping to keep all the off-wagon people alive for misexile and they're banking on on-wagon town not suspecting the other on-wagon players
MiX is basically an IC for me at this point, no way does MiX not bus his partner in that position
Is this based on MiX's meta or on his position of actively posting while his partner sat at E-1?
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vote: mcmc
that was exactly the right spot in the right time to hammer your partner
The more I think about it, the more I think you are right. Still need to reread the end of the day.
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
Because the EAL justification is the easiest one to back out of if galz actually does show up. If galz doesn't show up, you can can get the towncred when does get exiled, if he doesn't it's easy to say "well galz showed up and put in some good work so let's look elsewhere"
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
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I'd like to see Swowl's response on willingness to replace Galz, though on balance I think unvoting till that happens isn't good, because as it stands now, at least we have a nice analysable wagon of people willing to push Galz, and that may or may not be useful later on as we get flips.
I agree that LL's iffy case on me and willingness to jump off the wagon doesn't actually look scummy particularly, though I'll be keeping my eye on them anyway. Maybe like 10% as much as I'm keeping my eye on faust, though.
I don't feel like I know mcmc quite well enough to feel EFHW's case really. The only person giving me scum vibes is MiX, and I think that's pretty NAI.
It would be good to hear more from Dylan and Raptor, since other than Galz I feel like they're the ones we're not hearing much from.
This post from Space as a reaction also has me read them as more townie. I think they would have moved from galz as scum, as opposed to saying that they don't want to move their vote because they want good wagon analysis. This also really cements their read of galz at this point I think.
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As much as I hate raptor's vote (and the Galz wagon (holy hell he's at X-1, why)), he's doing a perfectly good job as an IC, and I don't think he needs to say more. Dylan does though, is he even scumreading who he's voting for?
MiX reads very scummy, trying to get people off of galz and on to other exiles, trying to get people that may convince people off of galz back into the game (other lurkers).
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.
Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building. EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.
Vote: LaLight
Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.
Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
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At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
agree with this
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
Because the EAL justification is the easiest one to back out of if galz actually does show up. If galz doesn't show up, you can can get the towncred when does get exiled, if he doesn't it's easy to say "well galz showed up and put in some good work so let's look elsewhere"
I'm actually curious but don't have time to keep sitting here to read atm, but if scum was the early-mid wagon EAL or no explanation voters, did they end up just stuck on the wagon after Galz did show up, not having time to move before the hammer, or did they actually post in between and choose to stay on there. Because if things went as fast as I think they did, I could see scum saying EAL and then just not getting online in time to actually say "hey Galz showed up, let's look elsewhere." If that's the case, the middle of the wagon voters are more sus than mcmc hammering imo.
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I'm actually curious but don't have time to keep sitting here to read atm, but if scum was the early-mid wagon EAL or no explanation voters, did they end up just stuck on the wagon after Galz did show up, not having time to move before the hammer, or did they actually post in between and choose to stay on there. Because if things went as fast as I think they did, I could see scum saying EAL and then just not getting online in time to actually say "hey Galz showed up, let's look elsewhere." If that's the case, the middle of the wagon voters are more sus than mcmc hammering imo.
Huh, I went back to look at this out of curiosity, especially since "early-mid" is exactly the portion I know to be solidly town, given that 2-4 are the IC, me, and town!faust.
Here's the wagon at the end:
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
Picking out the unknowns (from the point of view of town as a whole) on the wagon:
Didds: didn't post at all since 30 mins before gkrieg's X-1.
me: I posted twice after the X-1: once in the post gkrieg noted, where I declined to move my vote off Galz, and once at #247, to comment on something I disagreed with in the wall of posts that Galz had started at #227.
LaLight: hadn't posted since a few posts before Didd's most recent one.
gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.
mcmc: was the hammer.
So actually, other than me being around and after the posts and still not wanting to unvote, that doesn't show much.
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It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
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As much as I hate raptor's vote (and the Galz wagon (holy hell he's at X-1, why)), he's doing a perfectly good job as an IC, and I don't think he needs to say more. Dylan does though, is he even scumreading who he's voting for?
MiX reads very scummy, trying to get people off of galz and on to other exiles, trying to get people that may convince people off of galz back into the game (other lurkers).
I agree that it looks really scummy, but I think scum!mix would be way more subtle. I don’t think he leans so far into a defense that implicated him.
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There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.
Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building. EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.
Vote: LaLight
Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.
Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
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Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
Honestly, it's a decent D2 theory, and something that crossed my mind when I was re-reading Galz, but then forgot to take up again in the thread. From my PoV, the two options are either that Galz put both of his scumbuddies in the bottom bracket, or he put one in the middle pair (MiX and LL), since I know the top pair (me and faust) are both town.
OTOH, I feel like Galz was playing to an audience a bit too much that late in his wall of posts. That was the one right before he was hammered, and he must have realised that the longer it went on, the less good things were looking for him. Maybe that means he'd go for deliberate wifom.
However, I'm still a bit unconvinced as to why LL, who was on the Galz wagon, would be a better exile than MiX, who was desperately fighting against it. @Dylan, are you specifically scumreading LL because of the wagon placement?
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And/Or Vote: Faust - either one is easily a better exile than mine here.
Mcmc reads town to me - would prefer not to lynch there. ADK also reads pretty townie overall.
My wagon:
WCD (first vote, been mix of scummy and townie so far D1 - wouldn't be surprised to find she's town, but she's not my top pick here)
Raptor (clearly scum. Nobody wants to do that though, so.)
Space (Most likely to be scum - easy vote, follows IC, no real consequences - also been scummy in general)
faust (Basically same spot as Space here. If Space ISN'T scum, almost certainly faust is. Absolutely expect scum in one of these two spots).
LaLight (I have the smallest read on him of any player in the game at this point. Between that lack of read and his positioning here, I would place him in the next tier down from faust/Space)
Gkrieg (Not convinced scum likes to be here for no reason at this point. Especially with what is likely already one scum on wagon. Better to just let things simmer - my exile looked pretty well setup without his help)
MiX's defending of me, while appreciated, is also scummy.
Almost certainly one scum in {faust, Space}.
Probably one scum in {LaLight, MiX}.
Last scum amongst {WCD, ADK, gkrieg, Dylan, Mcmc, Efoo}
Another thought regarding this Galz post: it's got a convenient structure where he's going through commenting on all the people on his wagon in order. That means it's quite natural for him to skip over having to talk about the off-wagon people, which is ADK, Dylan, mcmc (at that point) and EFHW.
If scum really were going down the little-to-no-bussing route, then it would actually be very natural to be able to include both his scumbuddies in that bottom bracket after all. That may be especially likely given that he throws wagon-members WCD and gkrieg into the bottom set as well, which rather pads it out. He could easily have justified leaving suspicion on someone like gkrieg on wagon placement alone.
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still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
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I uh, forgot about this yesterday. Doesn't help that my internet was terrible either. I'll catch up now, I got the VCA set up but I haven't analyzed it yet.
Vote: EFHW 's in the best possible spot for scum: outside the scum wagon, on the counterwagon, not directly tied to the Galz wagon on either side. If scum's on it, it would be either Space or gkrieg, which have the best bus spot and the least impactful vote.
How is putting someone to E-1 saying that I won't be around for the deadline the least impactful vote?
Well, compared to the first vote, which allowed raptor to start the wagon, LL's vote, which essentially made it Galz vs mcmc, and mcmc's hammer, I'd say that yours and Space's votes are the least impactful ones (made by non-greens anyway: you can argue yours is more important than raptor's). But thinking about it better, yours is probably on par with LL's: I didn't really realize it at the time, but I suppose your vote is what made Galzria a dead man walking, since mcmc could just hammer whenever. I think i was still on the train of thought I had D1, which was thinking about a town!Galz, but if he's scum, then there were considerably more chances of surviving at X-2 than at X-1.
It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
I forgot if I said this already, but I was reading the Galzria rapid-fire posts when the hammer dropped, so I commented on it.
I'm kinda surprised people aren't looking at EFHW, and are instead looking at mcmc, which I believe to be one of the most townie people in general. I haven't reread D1 yet, and the scum!mcmc arguments aren't bad, but still, nothing about EFHW. The lack of interaction with the wagon at all feels exactly what one of the scum would do, and it makes sense with what I remember of her D1.
I, uh, agree with the third statement. Moving on.
I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
What "actions of dylan" are you talking about here?
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I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
Ah, let's try to rephrase this!
I looked at the complete VCA from the whole of D1, coloured such that Raptor, fasut, and I were green, Galz was read, and everyone else was coloured as unflipped. Then I looked for all instances of unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and there are very few.
#42: Mix votes mcmc
#79: Dylan votes LL
#82: EFHW votes mcmc
#188: ADK votes mcmc
#203: Mix votes LL (then moves back to mcmc at #220).
Those are, from my point of view, the only possible off-wagon busses by the scumteam, because the rest of the time, either someone's voting for known town, or they're a known town voting for someone else. Probably the fact I had a wagon, and voted for three different people, makes it more obvious to me than to most others, but I find it interesting, and so it's worth putting out there for future consideration later in the game. The rest of town can't really trust this till I show up as conf!green.
The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
If the rest of the scumteam is in one of those pairs, then there's a definite scum in {mcmc,LL}. If instead the scumteam were really showing a pattern of not bussing at all, I'd feel more townie on the people who started the two Galz wagons, who were ADK and then Didds. So two very different conclusions we can't do anything much with at the moment, but which might come in useful further down the line.
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I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
Ah, let's try to rephrase this!
I looked at the complete VCA from the whole of D1, coloured such that Raptor, fasut, and I were green, Galz was read, and everyone else was coloured as unflipped. Then I looked for all instances of unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and there are very few.
#42: Mix votes mcmc
#79: Dylan votes LL
#82: EFHW votes mcmc
#188: ADK votes mcmc
#203: Mix votes LL (then moves back to mcmc at #220).
Those are, from my point of view, the only possible off-wagon busses by the scumteam, because the rest of the time, either someone's voting for known town, or they're a known town voting for someone else. Probably the fact I had a wagon, and voted for three different people, makes it more obvious to me than to most others, but I find it interesting, and so it's worth putting out there for future consideration later in the game. The rest of town can't really trust this till I show up as conf!green.
The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
If the rest of the scumteam is in one of those pairs, then there's a definite scum in {mcmc,LL}. If instead the scumteam were really showing a pattern of not bussing at all, I'd feel more townie on the people who started the two Galz wagons, who were ADK and then Didds. So two very different conclusions we can't do anything much with at the moment, but which might come in useful further down the line.
I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?
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Vote Count 2.2:
MCMC (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
gkrieg (1): ADK
LaLight (1): Dylan23
Dylan23 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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I uh, forgot about this yesterday. Doesn't help that my internet was terrible either. I'll catch up now, I got the VCA set up but I haven't analyzed it yet.
Vote: EFHW 's in the best possible spot for scum: outside the scum wagon, on the counterwagon, not directly tied to the Galz wagon on either side. If scum's on it, it would be either Space or gkrieg, which have the best bus spot and the least impactful vote.
How is putting someone to E-1 saying that I won't be around for the deadline the least impactful vote?
Well, compared to the first vote, which allowed raptor to start the wagon, LL's vote, which essentially made it Galz vs mcmc, and mcmc's hammer, I'd say that yours and Space's votes are the least impactful ones (made by non-greens anyway: you can argue yours is more important than raptor's). But thinking about it better, yours is probably on par with LL's: I didn't really realize it at the time, but I suppose your vote is what made Galzria a dead man walking, since mcmc could just hammer whenever. I think i was still on the train of thought I had D1, which was thinking about a town!Galz, but if he's scum, then there were considerably more chances of surviving at X-2 than at X-1.
It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
I forgot if I said this already, but I was reading the Galzria rapid-fire posts when the hammer dropped, so I commented on it.
I'm kinda surprised people aren't looking at EFHW, and are instead looking at mcmc, which I believe to be one of the most townie people in general. I haven't reread D1 yet, and the scum!mcmc arguments aren't bad, but still, nothing about EFHW. The lack of interaction with the wagon at all feels exactly what one of the scum would do, and it makes sense with what I remember of her D1.
I, uh, agree with the third statement. Moving on.
I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
What "actions of dylan" are you talking about here?
sorry for quoting the whole post: phone. I am talking about Dylan seeming to try to make up a scumread out of nothing, really
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Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
Why don't you think that galz leaves out his partner? That requires that one of his partners were actually on his wagon, and that me and Didds are not his partner. I'm not so sure that he had a partner on his wagon already, and that he chooses to call out a partner instead of calling out me or Didds.
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
agree with this
Although thinking about it more, I think town!EFHW could have also been worried about possibly-town!galz and had basically a similar reaction.
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gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.
I feel like this is a little misleading, as my posts after my X-1 vote were just to say that it was X-1. I also stated that I was not going to return, so if you are looking at people being stuck on their partner, it can't be me.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
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As much as I hate raptor's vote (and the Galz wagon (holy hell he's at X-1, why)), he's doing a perfectly good job as an IC, and I don't think he needs to say more. Dylan does though, is he even scumreading who he's voting for?
MiX reads very scummy, trying to get people off of galz and on to other exiles, trying to get people that may convince people off of galz back into the game (other lurkers).
I agree that it looks really scummy, but I think scum!mix would be way more subtle. I don’t think he leans so far into a defense that implicated him.
You're saying that MiX would defend scum when he is town more often than he would defend them as scum? Or just that he wouldn't be so obvious about it? It was a pretty simple defense though, just that galz was not very active, so he would rather vote somewhere else. I don't think that is so brazen.
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this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
Why is Dylan more likely to do that as scum? I think he is also pretty likely to latch onto this theory as town. Not saying that I townread him, I'm just surprised that you voted for him after finding his theory weak.
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Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
Honestly, it's a decent D2 theory, and something that crossed my mind when I was re-reading Galz, but then forgot to take up again in the thread. From my PoV, the two options are either that Galz put both of his scumbuddies in the bottom bracket, or he put one in the middle pair (MiX and LL), since I know the top pair (me and faust) are both town.
OTOH, I feel like Galz was playing to an audience a bit too much that late in his wall of posts. That was the one right before he was hammered, and he must have realised that the longer it went on, the less good things were looking for him. Maybe that means he'd go for deliberate wifom.
However, I'm still a bit unconvinced as to why LL, who was on the Galz wagon, would be a better exile than MiX, who was desperately fighting against it. @Dylan, are you specifically scumreading LL because of the wagon placement?
This post makes me townread Space a little bit more. I think they are more likely to have this frame of thinking when they are truly town, rather than when they are just reading the post and trying to get something out of it. Especially the part I bolded. Not saying they aren't capable of making this kind of post as scum, but just that they are less likely to think this way.
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still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
The issue I still have with writing off MiX as not being that bold is that often stopping someone from being exiled D1 can lead to them not really coming under scrutiny later, because people talk themselves out of exiling someone that was at X-1 D1. At least that has been my experience.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
Isn't this post an example of it happening?
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
Isn't this post an example of it happening?
I'm saying that there is not anyone that is getting a bunch of town cred (to the point that people think they are conf!town), which makes it less likely that scum bussed galz.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
Isn't this post an example of it happening?
I'm saying that there is not anyone that is getting a bunch of town cred (to the point that people think they are conf!town), which makes it less likely that scum bussed galz.
Oh, I see what you mean now. Hmmmmm.
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I guess more broadly, I don't think "this hypothetical scum tactic didn't work" is necessarily an argument against the idea that they tried it
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
It's not scummy to hope for a more active player to join us. There was no reason to think Galz was any more scummy than random. Last game I got heat for pressuring him to participate more!
PPE: 17
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Space, do you have your vca raw data readily available? Would you share?
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Hey friends- I have been staring at a screen all day and the letters are turning to mush and my head hurts and maybe I am hungry, I don't know. We are looking for a new colleague and there were 145 applications and I am FULL OF RAGE that doctoral programs keep getting bigger and turning out more people but there are not and will never be enough jobs for everyone. ARGHHHHH
So, yeah.
My one thought after reading quickly in regard to Space's who may have bussed who post, is that with the folks we are talking about who are likely scum there was almost certainly some early bussing of each other going on because that is how that subset of people tend to play. I am always too nervous to bus anyone (except that one time pps told me that I should in the daychat...which ended in disaster and means I won't do that again!), but I think most other people think its the way to do.
Anyway, more thoughts when my eyes work, and I am maybe not hungry, and not so full of rage.
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Honestly, I don't remember LL jumping this hard on an omgus vote before. Like gkrieg pointed out, calling a case weak is different than saying the person making the case is scummy.
There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.
Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building. EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.
Vote: LaLight
Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.
Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
I think I might be slightly misreading your first sentence of the second post. In the first post's bolded sentence and subsequent vote, you basically say I'm scummy for trying to decode Galzria's post and making a little case out of it. In the second, you say mcmc and myself did things that are more scummy than trying to decode Galzria's post, which is what you voted for me for doing a few posts earlier.
So did you mean to say you think there were other scummy things beyond that which justify your vote more than just the thing you used as a basis for the vote, or that trying to decode Galzria's post isn't scummy compared to other things, or what?
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Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.
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I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
Ah, let's try to rephrase this!
I looked at the complete VCA from the whole of D1, coloured such that Raptor, fasut, and I were green, Galz was read, and everyone else was coloured as unflipped. Then I looked for all instances of unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and there are very few.
#42: Mix votes mcmc
#79: Dylan votes LL
#82: EFHW votes mcmc
#188: ADK votes mcmc
#203: Mix votes LL (then moves back to mcmc at #220).
Those are, from my point of view, the only possible off-wagon busses by the scumteam, because the rest of the time, either someone's voting for known town, or they're a known town voting for someone else. Probably the fact I had a wagon, and voted for three different people, makes it more obvious to me than to most others, but I find it interesting, and so it's worth putting out there for future consideration later in the game. The rest of town can't really trust this till I show up as conf!green.
The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
If the rest of the scumteam is in one of those pairs, then there's a definite scum in {mcmc,LL}. If instead the scumteam were really showing a pattern of not bussing at all, I'd feel more townie on the people who started the two Galz wagons, who were ADK and then Didds. So two very different conclusions we can't do anything much with at the moment, but which might come in useful further down the line.
I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?
What makes you think I'm forgetting?
1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).
2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
Am I wrong in thinking that some people are looking at mcmc in a townier light because of the hammer? I know I'm feeling a bit suspicious of him, and I'm pretty sure it was EFHW who expressed something similar, but I thought there are others who feel he's townie after that.
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gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.
I feel like this is a little misleading, as my posts after my X-1 vote were just to say that it was X-1. I also stated that I was not going to return, so if you are looking at people being stuck on their partner, it can't be me.
Nope, Dylan's original post was asking about people who were online but maybe hadn't really had time to respond to Galz's big wall of posts before mcmc's hammer, so I was saying that you don't fall into that category because you definitively weren't around. I had thought that more people than just me and EFHW had managed to interject something into that stream, but it turns out that most of the other posting started with the hammer from mcmc, not before it.
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Space, do you have your vca raw data readily available? Would you share?
Here's a code box with the complete D1 and partial D2 votes, as my counter records them.
Disclaimer: I haven't done a lot of comparing to mod counts, so use at your own risk :-)
VOTING FOR DAY 1
#31
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Not Voting (11): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#32
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (10): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#33
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (9): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#35
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
Not Voting (8): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#36
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (7): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, faust, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#40
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
Not Voting (6): Dylan32, MiX, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#42
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#44
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (1): LaLight
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
#57
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
faust (2): LaLight, gkrieg13
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
#70
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
gkrieg13 (1): SpaceAnemone
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
#72
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
#74
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, EFHW
#79
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (1): MiX
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, EFHW
#82
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (3): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#101
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#116
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (2): A Drowned Kernel, Xxraptorslayer96
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#123
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96
LaLight (1): Dylan32
gkrieg13 (1): faust
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#126
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (2): gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#131
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds
#149
Galzria (1): A Drowned Kernel
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria
#158
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (4): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, faust, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria
#162
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Galzria
#179
mcmcsalot (2): MiX, EFHW
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (2): A Drowned Kernel, faust
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#188
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#189
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (2): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#190
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): faust
Galzria (3): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#195
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
SpaceAnemone (2): LaLight, mcmcsalot
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Galzria (4): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#202
mcmcsalot (3): MiX, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#203
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Dylan32, MiX
mcmcsalot (2): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#220
faust (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (5): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#222
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): mcmcsalot
Galzria (6): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13
Not Voting (1): Galzria
#256
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
SpaceAnemone (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
Galzria (6): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13
#258
LaLight (1): Dylan32
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, MiX
Galzria (7): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, SpaceAnemone, faust, LaLight, gkrieg13, mcmcsalot
SpaceAnemone (1): Galzria
VOTING FOR DAY 2
#293
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#298
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Not Voting (8): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#302
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
Not Voting (7): A Drowned Kernel, Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#310
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
Not Voting (6): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#320
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
#327
EFHW (1): MiX
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): A Drowned Kernel
LaLight (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, mcmcsalot, gkrieg13
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The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?
What makes you think I'm forgetting?
1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).
2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.
Mostly this part which I isolated: it's missing Didds' vote on Galz.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
you contradict yourself here: you're giving towncres for things that can't get towncres
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this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
Why is Dylan more likely to do that as scum? I think he is also pretty likely to latch onto this theory as town. Not saying that I townread him, I'm just surprised that you voted for him after finding his theory weak.
i am coming around to the understanding that i might have overreacted, but this was quite a weak case and i thought this was just "i try to build something so it looks like i'm scumhunting". I still think that, but i can see some reason now, i think
vote: mcmc
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still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
The issue I still have with writing off MiX as not being that bold is that often stopping someone from being exiled D1 can lead to them not really coming under scrutiny later, because people talk themselves out of exiling someone that was at X-1 D1. At least that has been my experience.
never thought of it this way, believe it or not
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The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
I think you're completely forgetting about Didds' vote. What do you think of her?
What makes you think I'm forgetting?
1. I commented specifically that I was looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting (Didds only ever voted Galz, who flipped).
2. I addressed the point that people being early voters on Galz (naming Didds and ADK) could look townier if this turns out to be evidence of a non-bussing strategy on behalf of scum.
Mostly this part which I isolated: it's missing Didds' vote on Galz.
Yeah, but like I've said twice now, I was only looking at unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and Galz flipped, so I wasn't counting any votes on Galz, and that was entirely intentional.
If I had been counting votes on Galz, I'd have had to count everyone on the Galz wagon, including gkrieg, whom I also didn't mention in any of the pairs... so why are you singling Didds out and suggesting that I've somehow forgotten her?
PPE 3: hi LL :-)
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Honestly, I don't remember LL jumping this hard on an omgus vote before. Like gkrieg pointed out, calling a case weak is different than saying the person making the case is scummy.
There goes my scum!faust theory
Phone posting atm but I will say that I would be shocked if Galz's partners weren't both bussing
What makes you say they would both be bussing? Most of the votes on his wagon were from EAL people, with some other stuff in there. It was also an exile on the day of the deadline, which I think scum still think they can get the exile to go a different day, which would make them less likely to bus.
You're missing some added context that in Galz's last couple games, his activity level has been a matter of discussion and concern to the point that last game it had been discussed whether they were inactive enough to warrant a lurker exile D1. The fact that this game started the same way gives a bit more cover for scum to go ahead and join that specific bus in hopes of grabbing the towncred since there would have been an argument to be made that it was a pro-town exile regardless of flip.
Oddly enough, I think of the people on wagon, mcmc is the one I feel least inclined to exile right now. His reasons (of course given after the fact, so grain of salt) are more substantial than anything anyone else said in the course of the wagon building. EFHW's point about going from "I know you're scum" to using "if" again later is one of those things that might seem bad on the surface, but if playing with MiX has taught me anything, it's that absolute statements don't always mean the person is absolutely sure and unable to change their mind. Also, the confident statement was when he voted, and the uncertainty was after the post-hammer cop claim, which I would say gives mcmc reason enough to question that read while waiting for the flip.
Vote: LaLight
Just iso'd LL and read through Galz's stream of posts when he came back and said a lot. Between the two I think there's a decent chance LL is scum here.
Galz claimed 1 scum in {faust, space}, probably one in {LL, MiX}, and one in the rest. Since galz wasn't able to talk to his partners to plan the nk, I doubt they would have paid much attention to his pairings when thinking about the nk, so I don't think this says anything about Space for sure, but I don't think galz leaves both partners out of his scum-read pairings, so I feel pretty confident there's at least 1 in {space, LL, MiX}.
holy ppe 8 batman
this is some grasping-at-straws theory, looking like you need something to form a scumread. I mean there's so much wifom in Galzria's list, that it can be entirely disregarded. vote: Dylan32
still, actions of some people (mcmc and dylan) are for me more telling and more scummy than relying on trying to decode Galzria's post. I agree with Space that MiX defending Galzria is too bold of a move, MiX is a bit more rational than that, I believe. That leaves Space in the roster of people mentioned by Galz, and although I suspect them as well, their actions on D1 seem less scummy than convenient "rusty" mcmc hammer if that makes sense.
I think I might be slightly misreading your first sentence of the second post. In the first post's bolded sentence and subsequent vote, you basically say I'm scummy for trying to decode Galzria's post and making a little case out of it. In the second, you say mcmc and myself did things that are more scummy than trying to decode Galzria's post, which is what you voted for me for doing a few posts earlier.
So did you mean to say you think there were other scummy things beyond that which justify your vote more than just the thing you used as a basis for the vote, or that trying to decode Galzria's post isn't scummy compared to other things, or what?
sorry, that sentence is a mess. what i meant was that your actions (trying to decode) are scummier than people who were in Galzria's post
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Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.
oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
you contradict yourself here: you're giving towncres for things that can't get towncres
towncred*
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Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.
oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet
also, vote: Dylan
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I'm off to sleep now
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Also, I don't think I've seen LL respond like this to a single vote on him. Like not a wagon, but a single vote. I'm not ready to say that's scummy in and of itself, but it isn't hard to imagine coming back after a long gap, drawing scum in game 1, and feeling a little nervous and like you need to deflect and stay out of pressure.
oh, I certainly do, actually, all the time. You're lucky I didn't claim yet
also, vote: Dylan
This is an interesting reversal when I hadn't even responded to his vote change earlier.
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Vote Count 2.3:
MCMC (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): MiX
gkrieg (1): ADK
LaLight (1): Dylan23
Dylan23 (1): LaLight
Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96, gkrieg
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time.
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Apologize for being MIA, I'm catching up now!
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Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?
What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?
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Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?
What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?
Tricks?
Space's saying that either scum voted scum on the 5 unknown-on-unknown votes. or scum didn't bus, or scum bussed late. This is missing your early vote on Galzria, and I wanted to see why Space forgot about this.
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At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
Does this mean you think mcmc is scum?
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Hi Mix, how’s tricks in Portugal?
What’s you rubbing the wrong way about my vote for Galz?
Tricks?
Space's saying that either scum voted scum on the 5 unknown-on-unknown votes. or scum didn't bus, or scum bussed late. This is missing your early vote on Galzria, and I wanted to see why Space forgot about this.
Tricks is just an expression for “what’s up?” It’s loosely based on a nod to what prostitutes might say to each other, but that isn’t how I was using it. It seems apt for you because you’re kind of tricksy.
She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
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@ADK: At 144 you were the only one voting Galz. Then you voted Dylan at 159 and mcmc at 189, both before the flood of votes for Galz that started at 190. Why did you leave Galz and why didn't you go back?
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She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
Wow, thanks for that summary, Didds! I was getting worried that I might be talking gibberish, because I'm feeling super-frustrated at MiX repeatedly accusing me of being wrong when it seems more likely that he just got it into his head that I was doing something different (based on early/late voting maybe?) than I actually was trying to do, and therefore wasn't open to any evidence based on actual reality :-P
Either that, or MiX is genuinely being difficult over that one little bussing point I made because he's scum and wants to focus conversation on something minor that might even end up being misleading...
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She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
Wow, thanks for that summary, Didds! I was getting worried that I might be talking gibberish, because I'm feeling super-frustrated at MiX repeatedly accusing me of being wrong when it seems more likely that he just got it into his head that I was doing something different (based on early/late voting maybe?) than I actually was trying to do, and therefore wasn't open to any evidence based on actual reality :-P
Either that, or MiX is genuinely being difficult over that one little bussing point I made because he's scum and wants to focus conversation on something minor that might even end up being misleading...
I'm still confused, but I guess that's just me.
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She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
Wow, thanks for that summary, Didds! I was getting worried that I might be talking gibberish, because I'm feeling super-frustrated at MiX repeatedly accusing me of being wrong when it seems more likely that he just got it into his head that I was doing something different (based on early/late voting maybe?) than I actually was trying to do, and therefore wasn't open to any evidence based on actual reality :-P
This actually sounds a bit like MiX ahem
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Someone might have already said this - I couldn't find it though - LL is in the scummiest position on wagon. He was the last in 5 votes for Galzria that took place from 190-203.
I was going to say gkrieg looks towny in his vote, since the mcmc wagon was up to three and he could have voted there. But if all three are scum, voting Galz was the best move. So if mcmc flips scum, I'll want to look again at gkrieg.
I don't feel like Dylan did justice to my case on mcmc. Not sure what to make of that.
PPE: 3
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She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
Wow, thanks for that summary, Didds! I was getting worried that I might be talking gibberish, because I'm feeling super-frustrated at MiX repeatedly accusing me of being wrong when it seems more likely that he just got it into his head that I was doing something different (based on early/late voting maybe?) than I actually was trying to do, and therefore wasn't open to any evidence based on actual reality :-P
Either that, or MiX is genuinely being difficult over that one little bussing point I made because he's scum and wants to focus conversation on something minor that might even end up being misleading...
I'm still confused, but I guess that's just me.
Space only looked at still unflipped voter voting for still unflipped target. That would exclude any votes for or by faust and galz, since they have both flipped. It's not super complicated. Now, having said that, I'm actually not sure there's enough information to support any conclusions space was trying to make in this post.
It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
So the unknown on unknown votes were MiX->LL, mcmc; ADK->Dylan, mcmc; EFHW->mcmc; Dylan->LL; and whatever votes Space did but didn't list here. The simple fact is, 6+space's votes just isn't enough to say anything about whether scum had a no bussing policy in place for D1. Space does admittedly say "I'm not sure how that helps us much at all here," but then proceeds to defend mcmc a bit and shade MiX and LL, which is strange because mcmc received 3 votes and LL received 2, so I would think from this LL would be included with mcmc rather than MiX, who voted for both LL and mcmc. Actually, that inconsistency sounds just like Space was talking just to make up something to talk about and trying to make up conclusions to fit the narrative they wanted rather than looking at what they were posting.
vote: Space
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Someone might have already said this - I couldn't find it though - LL is in the scummiest position on wagon. He was the last in 5 votes for Galzria that took place from 190-203.
I was going to say gkrieg looks towny in his vote, since the mcmc wagon was up to three and he could have voted there. But if all three are scum, voting Galz was the best move. So if mcmc flips scum, I'll want to look again at gkrieg.
I don't feel like Dylan did justice to my case on mcmc. Not sure what to make of that.
PPE: 3
If you think I didn't, I'll go back and read it again real quick.
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@ADK: At 144 you were the only one voting Galz. Then you voted Dylan at 159 and mcmc at 189, both before the flood of votes for Galz that started at 190. Why did you leave Galz and why didn't you go back?
I left galz because the day was going slowly and I was hoping to get something to happen. I didn't go back because I was hoping for something more interesting than a lurker exile
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So the unknown on unknown votes were MiX->LL, mcmc; ADK->Dylan, mcmc; EFHW->mcmc; Dylan->LL; and whatever votes Space did but didn't list here. The simple fact is, 6+space's votes just isn't enough to say anything about whether scum had a no bussing policy in place for D1. Space does admittedly say "I'm not sure how that helps us much at all here," but then proceeds to defend mcmc a bit and shade MiX and LL, which is strange because mcmc received 3 votes and LL received 2, so I would think from this LL would be included with mcmc rather than MiX, who voted for both LL and mcmc.
Okay, you're missing the point slightly, but you actually have pointed out that I missed one possible bussing vote, which seemed to be the thing MiX was trying hard to accuse me of but messing up on :-P I missed ADK's brief stint voting for Dylan from #158-188.
It changes very little, but it does change the thing Dylan seems to be objecting to most, which was my conclusion about there being one scum in {mcmc,LL} if there was any off-wagon bussing at all. That's because I was counting all pairs (outside of the Galz wagon) that could still be a scum-on-scum vote. While I found five, all five of them contained either mcmc or LL, hence my statement about either having a scum in {mcmc,LL} or no off-wagon bussing. I was literally summarising the pairs in a concise way, and not injecting any opinion. It wasn't about anything as complicated as counting who was voted for how many times, or trying to spin things for a particular argument, which is what Dylan seems to be implying in the comment above.
However, when you add that sixth pair of ADK-Dylan, then it's no longer possible to pull out a single pair of players such that all the possible pairs contain them, and we'd have to add one or other of ADK and Dylan into the {mcmc,LL} bracket to cover all the bases.
And as I've said a bunch of times, this is a really minor point that just might be interesting later on when there have been more flips. At the end of the day, it's perfectly possible that we saw no off-Galz bussing, plus early or copious on-Galz bussing, and/or that the scum-team wasn't even thinking in terms of bussing at all.
Actually, that inconsistency sounds just like Space was talking just to make up something to talk about and trying to make up conclusions to fit the narrative they wanted rather than looking at what they were posting.
vote: Space
I think you're accusing me of analysing the votes instead of what the people were saying, in which case I'm guilty as charged, because I find it quite informative to look at the votes most of the time, since those are the mechanism through which the game actually operates. It's not like I'm building scum-cases or anything here, and other than missing out on one brief vote, I was only stating factual stuff in a re-organised way that might be a bit easier to think and reason about later, so I'm not sure what hidden scum-agenda you even think that might be serving.
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So the unknown on unknown votes were MiX->LL, mcmc; ADK->Dylan, mcmc; EFHW->mcmc; Dylan->LL; and whatever votes Space did but didn't list here. The simple fact is, 6+space's votes just isn't enough to say anything about whether scum had a no bussing policy in place for D1. Space does admittedly say "I'm not sure how that helps us much at all here," but then proceeds to defend mcmc a bit and shade MiX and LL, which is strange because mcmc received 3 votes and LL received 2, so I would think from this LL would be included with mcmc rather than MiX, who voted for both LL and mcmc.
Okay, you're missing the point slightly, but you actually have pointed out that I missed one possible bussing vote, which seemed to be the thing MiX was trying hard to accuse me of but messing up on :-P I missed ADK's brief stint voting for Dylan from #158-188.
It changes very little, but it does change the thing Dylan seems to be objecting to most, which was my conclusion about there being one scum in {mcmc,LL} if there was any off-wagon bussing at all. That's because I was counting all pairs (outside of the Galz wagon) that could still be a scum-on-scum vote. While I found five, all five of them contained either mcmc or LL, hence my statement about either having a scum in {mcmc,LL} or no off-wagon bussing. I was literally summarising the pairs in a concise way, and not injecting any opinion. It wasn't about anything as complicated as counting who was voted for how many times, or trying to spin things for a particular argument, which is what Dylan seems to be implying in the comment above.
However, when you add that sixth pair of ADK-Dylan, then it's no longer possible to pull out a single pair of players such that all the possible pairs contain them, and we'd have to add one or other of ADK and Dylan into the {mcmc,LL} bracket to cover all the bases.
And as I've said a bunch of times, this is a really minor point that just might be interesting later on when there have been more flips. At the end of the day, it's perfectly possible that we saw no off-Galz bussing, plus early or copious on-Galz bussing, and/or that the scum-team wasn't even thinking in terms of bussing at all.
Actually, that inconsistency sounds just like Space was talking just to make up something to talk about and trying to make up conclusions to fit the narrative they wanted rather than looking at what they were posting.
vote: Space
I think you're accusing me of analysing the votes instead of what the people were saying, in which case I'm guilty as charged, because I find it quite informative to look at the votes most of the time, since those are the mechanism through which the game actually operates. It's not like I'm building scum-cases or anything here, and other than missing out on one brief vote, I was only stating factual stuff in a re-organised way that might be a bit easier to think and reason about later, so I'm not sure what hidden scum-agenda you even think that might be serving.
Unless you did so in a completely different post that the one I am referring to (quoted below), you didn't say anything about 1 scum in {LL, mcmc}.
It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
In the bolded portions, you actually say it's MiX and mcmc that are scummy, while if something else is true (I think your no bussing idea) mcmc is actually townier and MiX and LL are scummier. Nowhere do you include mcmc and LL the way you just described (again, in this post at least, which is the only one I was addressing earlier).
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To be clear, that is the inconsistency to which I am referring, not what you are analyzing. I agree and appreciate you looking at the votes, but it seemed to me the conclusion you stated earlier didn't follow from the evidence you cited, which I thought seemed more likely to come from scum!Space trying to fill space in a post rather than town!logical space.
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Space, do you have your vca raw data readily available? Would you share?
Here's a code box with the complete D1 and partial D2 votes, as my counter records them.
Disclaimer: I haven't done a lot of comparing to mod counts, so use at your own risk :-)
Thanks!
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I'm kinda confused on what you're trying to say at the last 2 paragraphs. Is this like a mini-VCA, or are the votes that useless that this is the complete VCA?
Ah, let's try to rephrase this!
I looked at the complete VCA from the whole of D1, coloured such that Raptor, fasut, and I were green, Galz was read, and everyone else was coloured as unflipped. Then I looked for all instances of unflipped-on-unflipped voting, and there are very few.
#42: Mix votes mcmc
#79: Dylan votes LL
#82: EFHW votes mcmc
#188: ADK votes mcmc
#203: Mix votes LL (then moves back to mcmc at #220).
Those are, from my point of view, the only possible off-wagon busses by the scumteam, because the rest of the time, either someone's voting for known town, or they're a known town voting for someone else. Probably the fact I had a wagon, and voted for three different people, makes it more obvious to me than to most others, but I find it interesting, and so it's worth putting out there for future consideration later in the game. The rest of town can't really trust this till I show up as conf!green.
The interesting thing is that either one of those five pairs of people is the rest of the scumteam, or (probably more likely) the scumteam decided not to bus at all, except possibly on Galz in the end.
If the rest of the scumteam is in one of those pairs, then there's a definite scum in {mcmc,LL}. If instead the scumteam were really showing a pattern of not bussing at all, I'd feel more townie on the people who started the two Galz wagons, who were ADK and then Didds. So two very different conclusions we can't do anything much with at the moment, but which might come in useful further down the line.
And now I see where the LL mcmc pairing came from, and this makes more sense than your original post did, but as you recognized it's incomplete. Also, for something like this, you should look at who scum!galz voted for too that hasn't flipped yet, and if his votes eventually flip town, there would be more evidence that scum didn't bus.
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Someone might have already said this - I couldn't find it though - LL is in the scummiest position on wagon. He was the last in 5 votes for Galzria that took place from 190-203.
I was going to say gkrieg looks towny in his vote, since the mcmc wagon was up to three and he could have voted there. But if all three are scum, voting Galz was the best move. So if mcmc flips scum, I'll want to look again at gkrieg.
I don't feel like Dylan did justice to my case on mcmc. Not sure what to make of that.
PPE: 3
Ok, read your case. I had only really intended to address one point of your case in the first place, not the whole thing, which could be why it felt like I didn't do it justice.
To your point of mcmc defending LL from "knowing" that galz was scum and scum!LL wouldn't jump on scum!galz there: From scum!mcmc perspective, either he defended town!LL in a way that gave away the fact he is Galz's partner, or he tried to put distance between both his partners. The former doesn't seem like a defense scum!mcmc would do, like why not allow a town to jump on a scum wagon in a scummy way in order to create the suspicion of bussing that might come later (as it has so far today). The latter would be a mistake and mean that from a single post you identified the entire scum team. I won't say that's impossible, but I just don't think that's the scum team.
I already responded to mcmc sounding certain in his hammer post and talking in terms of "if he's scum" and "I don't think scum!galz claims there," but for one thing, not everyone states their read on a person before voting for them, and for another, it's not un-town-like to be confident in a read but be convinced to doubt that read based on a person's reaction to being hammered.
Then the last few sentences aren't a convincing on their own. Honestly, without going back and doing a complete mcmc reread, it's kind of hard to actually follow what you are saying there, so maybe you're right and have a good point there, but that's why I didn't really address that part of your case earlier.
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Prod request for mcmc, gkrieg, and raptor
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Also, for something like this, you should look at who scum!galz voted for too that hasn't flipped yet, and if his votes eventually flip town, there would be more evidence that scum didn't bus.
Heh, you're as bad as MiX insisting I'm forgetting things :-P
Yes, it makes sense to look at whether it's possible for Galz to have voted for any scums. Yes, I would have included that had there been any relevant votes. No, there weren't any relevant votes. He spent the early parts of D1 voting Raptor, who's literally the IC, and then unvoted for a long while, and then voted me at the end, after gkrieg had put him to X-1.
If you or other people want to consider that maybe Galz would vote scum!me for wifom at that rather desperate-looking juncture, while I'm on his wagon and therefore unable to help him build sensible momentum on a non-Galz wagon, then sure, but I really think you're clutching at straws. If I was scum alongside Galz just after gkreig's X-1, the much more sensible thing would have been for Galz to swing to mcmc, and for me to follow, since I was clearly around and posting and could have responded to Galz's reappearance in the game by moving my vote elsewhere.
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I was going to post a space count, but the official vote count sums it up fine, and the only difference is that Dylan is now voting for me rather than back at LL.
I feel like the people I'm most suspicious of in isolation are {mcmc,LL,MiX}, though Dylan is creeping up too, maybe just for omgus reasons.
Vote: mcmc seems a good place for me right now.
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Oof! We’ve fallen into a lull. I’m partly responsible for it, I know, but still. The multi-prod will help. And maybe more voting?
In that spirit, vote: mcmc
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sounds good to me
vote: mcmc
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If Swowl could find a replacement, that would be better for the fun of the game than exiling Galz. Also, it seems to me that scum!Galz would be less likely to do this.
This is a scummy post from EFHW when the galz wagon was picking up EAL folks.
It's not scummy to hope for a more active player to join us. There was no reason to think Galz was any more scummy than random. Last game I got heat for pressuring him to participate more!
PPE: 17
I agree, but I think the question is are you more likely to do it as scum to a scum partner, or are you equally as likely to do it as town.
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I also think it is unlikely that partners bussed galz, because the main reason you do that as scum is if you get a bunch of town cred for bussing your partner D1, and the way it happened, with the reasons it happened do not point to anyone getting a bunch of town cred for exiling galz.
Am I wrong in thinking that some people are looking at mcmc in a townier light because of the hammer? I know I'm feeling a bit suspicious of him, and I'm pretty sure it was EFHW who expressed something similar, but I thought there are others who feel he's townie after that.
I don't think enough people are looking at him townie enough that it had the desired effect if he is scum. But yes, I see your point.
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gkrieg: made a couple of posts after the X-1, ending 2 hours before Galz returned. Gkrieg didn't return until D2.
I feel like this is a little misleading, as my posts after my X-1 vote were just to say that it was X-1. I also stated that I was not going to return, so if you are looking at people being stuck on their partner, it can't be me.
Nope, Dylan's original post was asking about people who were online but maybe hadn't really had time to respond to Galz's big wall of posts before mcmc's hammer, so I was saying that you don't fall into that category because you definitively weren't around. I had thought that more people than just me and EFHW had managed to interject something into that stream, but it turns out that most of the other posting started with the hammer from mcmc, not before it.
Got it. That's what I get for just reading a single post.
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At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
Does this mean you think mcmc is scum?
I think mcmc looks scummy from what galz does.
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I was going to say gkrieg looks towny in his vote, since the mcmc wagon was up to three and he could have voted there. But if all three are scum, voting Galz was the best move. So if mcmc flips scum, I'll want to look again at gkrieg.
This isn't entirely true. My best move would have been to put my vote one someone else who I thought might gain traction (in the case that the scum team is me, galz, mcmc). Especially since I was leaving, there could have been a chance for a last-minute exile that was neither galz or mcmc. Especially if there had been an actual claim from galz or mcmc that got people to explore a third person right near the deadline.
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She said that she didn’t include anyone who voted for someone who hadn’t flipped. I only voted for someone who had flipped, so I was left out. She also left out the votes on Galz from other folks on his wagon at the end, and ADKs vote on Galz earlier in the day. She was only looking at the votes on people still unknown to try to build a sense of interactions.
Wow, thanks for that summary, Didds! I was getting worried that I might be talking gibberish, because I'm feeling super-frustrated at MiX repeatedly accusing me of being wrong when it seems more likely that he just got it into his head that I was doing something different (based on early/late voting maybe?) than I actually was trying to do, and therefore wasn't open to any evidence based on actual reality :-P
Either that, or MiX is genuinely being difficult over that one little bussing point I made because he's scum and wants to focus conversation on something minor that might even end up being misleading...
I'm still confused, but I guess that's just me.
Space only looked at still unflipped voter voting for still unflipped target. That would exclude any votes for or by faust and galz, since they have both flipped. It's not super complicated. Now, having said that, I'm actually not sure there's enough information to support any conclusions space was trying to make in this post.
It's sort of interesting that the off-wagon people were much more present. EFHW also posted in the middle of Galz's wall of posts, at #251, so she could have chosen to hammer but didn't. MiX and ADK both posted within minutes of the hammer, hadn't posted before that.
I think MiX and mcmc are emerging as people who are looking suspicious now. The former for trying so hard not to exile Galz, and the latter for being so decisive about exiling him.
Interestingly, I feel like it's unlikely they're both scummy, because MiX moved his vote from LL, who'd been on two votes, onto mcmc, putting him to three votes. I don't think scum!MiX tries to detract from scum!Galz's wagon by growing a wagon on scum!mcmc instead.
Also, looking at possible D1 bussing off-wagon, there's really not a lot of scope for it if I also assume that MiX and mcmc aren't scum together. ADK was on the first incarnation of the Galz wagon, and later also voted Dylan and mcmc. EFHW voted mcmc. Dylan voted LL. Those are the only cases of unknown-on-unknown voting, from my point of view. It makes me recall that some scum teams decide explicitly not to bus in D1, so it's worth considering that we might be in that sort of a situation here, in which case maybe there's not a lot of on-wagon bussing either.
I'm not sure that helps us much at all here, but I want to put it out there. The consequences would make mcmc look a bit more townie (since he picked up many of the unknown votes), and MiX and possibly LL look more likely to be scum. However, I doubt scum was counting on Galz going down so hard at the end, and it's true that at least one of them would almost certainly have benefitted from bussing if they were able, so this reasoning is probably a bit far out there to rely on.
So the unknown on unknown votes were MiX->LL, mcmc; ADK->Dylan, mcmc; EFHW->mcmc; Dylan->LL; and whatever votes Space did but didn't list here. The simple fact is, 6+space's votes just isn't enough to say anything about whether scum had a no bussing policy in place for D1. Space does admittedly say "I'm not sure how that helps us much at all here," but then proceeds to defend mcmc a bit and shade MiX and LL, which is strange because mcmc received 3 votes and LL received 2, so I would think from this LL would be included with mcmc rather than MiX, who voted for both LL and mcmc. Actually, that inconsistency sounds just like Space was talking just to make up something to talk about and trying to make up conclusions to fit the narrative they wanted rather than looking at what they were posting.
vote: Space
I really don't think this is enough of a reason to vote. It also seems like people are dwelling on this (frankly harmless) thing that Space did, almost to the point where I would start looking for scum in the people who are still talking about it.
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@ADK: At 144 you were the only one voting Galz. Then you voted Dylan at 159 and mcmc at 189, both before the flood of votes for Galz that started at 190. Why did you leave Galz and why didn't you go back?
I left galz because the day was going slowly and I was hoping to get something to happen. I didn't go back because I was hoping for something more interesting than a lurker exile
But a lurker that you have a scum read on should still be a pretty good exile.
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vote: mcmcsalot
X-1
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@ADK: At 144 you were the only one voting Galz. Then you voted Dylan at 159 and mcmc at 189, both before the flood of votes for Galz that started at 190. Why did you leave Galz and why didn't you go back?
I left galz because the day was going slowly and I was hoping to get something to happen. I didn't go back because I was hoping for something more interesting than a lurker exile
But a lurker that you have a scum read on should still be a pretty good exile.
Depends on how strong a scum read you actually have on them
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I know the day's going slow but I don't think I like the mcmc exile, mostly because I'm suspicious of many of the people on it
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I know the day's going slow but I don't think I like the mcmc exile, mostly because I'm suspicious of many of the people on it
Do you find mcmc townie?
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I know the day's going slow but I don't think I like the mcmc exile, mostly because I'm suspicious of many of the people on it
Do you find mcmc townie?
It's hard to imagine him hammering his partner the way he did
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unvote for caution since it's at X-1, to give mcmc a chance to post if he wants to. Would vote mcmc or LL.
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I am interested in hearing what mcmc has to say.
While we are waiting, I gotta tell you all the BEST thing! Mail-me just sent me a picture of the new baby yams is she is awesome and he is a daddy and that is lightness and good in dark times.
You should all feel free to send me pictures of all that is lightness and good in your world. I live for this stuff.
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vote: mcmcsalot
X-1
Aaah, you've made a vote that is invisible to my counter. Will try to fix things later tonight since X-1 is exactly when I don't want to be unable to automate VCs :-P
I approve of EFHW's unvote, since that wagon did grow awfully quickly. It's worth noting that we're only a couple of days from deadline, though, in spite of the fact that I feel we're still early-ish in D2 for some reason.
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I am interested in hearing what mcmc has to say.
While we are waiting, I gotta tell you all the BEST thing! Mail-me just sent me a picture of the new baby yams is she is awesome and he is a daddy and that is lightness and good in dark times.
You should all feel free to send me pictures of all that is lightness and good in your world. I live for this stuff.
just sent you our new cat, that we took home 2 weeks ago :)
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Woah woah woah l-1 as the leading wagon against scum...
You all think we had two wagons on scum ending day D1... and you think I hammered my partner galz that’s insane.
Anyone who has played with me knows that I never bus like that. I would have gone all out to protect galz
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At the end, it looks like galz tries to stop a wagon from forming on mcmc. Maybe he realized that mcmc was the only other person he could reasonably get a wagon going on and was looking for other last-minute alternatives?
Does this mean you think mcmc is scum?
I think mcmc looks scummy from what galz does.
I think you are looking at it wrong. If I am galz’s partner and he’s likely going to get exhiled, no way he specifically calls out me as a town read if I’m his partner. He would just not bring attention to the couple votes I got or decide to go against me making it easier to buss. If we are partners no way that goes down how it did from either side.
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Vote: lalight would also vote for space
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Vote: LL
Maybe I just don't have the breadth or depth of experience with galz and mcmc that some of you may have, but I just don't see D1 going down the way it did if they are partners. I'm not saying that mcmc wouldn't hammer a partner like that or galzria wouldn't defend or fake a townread on mcmc like he did as a partner, but for some reason I don't think that combination is what a partner dynamic between them would actually look like.
Currently my biggest hesitation on that is the convenient fact that mcmc voted LL and is willing to exile Space aka the two people I'm pushing and maybe I'm getting buddied or something. I guess having similar reads can be a thing too, but I wish I remembered whether or not I usually agreed with town!mcmc's reads lol.
A couple town points to EFHW for that unvote I think.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
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also is it just me, but I feel like there's 4 people left alive
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Vote: lalight would also vote for space
Why Space? Thoughts about EFHW?
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also is it just me, but I feel like there's 4 people left alive
No, that's a fair statement. Guess who's been busy this week! Sigh...
You know, I'm stll townreading both mcmc and LL. It feels like a lot of arguments are around Galz's EoD list, which is very WIFOMy.
Vote: lalight would also vote for space
Why Space? Thoughts about EFHW?
Oh yes I wish I had asked this sooner.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
This is a decent point.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
this only gives more "towncred"
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
this only gives more "towncred"
It was D1. Has the rest of my play mirrored to idea that I lynched my partner for towncred? has a scum team of Galz and McMc misplayed so poorly and allowed a very lurkey game to get so far away we are back to back D1 and 2 l-1 wagons...Lalight what world do you think scum!mcmc actually plays the way I have.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
this only gives more "towncred"
It was D1. Has the rest of my play mirrored to idea that I lynched my partner for towncred? has a scum team of Galz and McMc misplayed so poorly and allowed a very lurkey game to get so far away we are back to back D1 and 2 l-1 wagons...Lalight what world do you think scum!mcmc actually plays the way I have.
I think that was just a gamble that didn't pay off. I had the same experiences
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also is it just me, but I feel like there's 4 people left alive
No, that's a fair statement. Guess who's been busy this week! Sigh...
You know, I'm stll townreading both mcmc and LL. It feels like a lot of arguments are around Galz's EoD list, which is very WIFOMy.
Vote: lalight would also vote for space
Why Space? Thoughts about EFHW?
Oh yes I wish I had asked this sooner.
The case that EFHW made is a case. A case that comes to the incorrect conclusion of me being scum but I get how she comes to that conclusion. the whole case is made the way I expect town!EFHW to make the case.
[SNIP]
First off, the hammer, and the snarky "I know you are scum so don't deny it" tone come out of the blue in that he made no statements of opinion on Galz's alignment before 222. In that post, it sounds to me like he did know Galz was scum and was trying to defend LL in that context.
268 is really confusing. He seems to be saying that while he hopes faust is right, he thinks Galz is town because Scum!Galz doesn't fakeclaim here. Why not? Then he says if scum, it would be good play. But he was already talking about "if scum". So it's like he doesn't remember what stance he pretended to have on Galz. Then in 283 reaffirms his confident scumread.
The 7 posts before 222 have a lot of explaining in them. Why he voted faust. Why he moved to Space. Why people would think that was scummy (139 reads really scummy to me, especially the MiX towny part). Why people say they need to reread. But this is where I run into trouble. The second part of 188, like 168, doesn't really fit what he was saying. And scum say they have to reread ALL the time. Scummy. But then I remembered that town!mcmc can be this way - where his posts don't fit together logically to my ear - and I usually scumread him for it.
But I'm still going to
Vote: mcmc
because the whole picture is scummy, not just 168 and 188.
Whats interesting is EFHW actually finds me scummy here for being to confident followed by being wishy washy. I was confident enough in my gut read of galz's flurry of posts that I wanted to exhile him. I was then honestly sad I had potentially hammered the cop and was going through all the scenarios of what to do if thats the case, what galz could be doing if scum ect. I didn't forget what stance I pretended to have I legitimately thought he was scum and then got hit with the idea that he was instead a town cop.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
this only gives more "towncred"
It was D1. Has the rest of my play mirrored to idea that I lynched my partner for towncred? has a scum team of Galz and McMc misplayed so poorly and allowed a very lurkey game to get so far away we are back to back D1 and 2 l-1 wagons...Lalight what world do you think scum!mcmc actually plays the way I have.
I think that was just a gamble that didn't pay off. I had the same experiences
ugh I have misexhiled you in the past over stuff like this. It feels like you have modded me enough to know its not a gamble I take and if so I would do it in a much more dire scenario. Honestly I doubt I have never bussed by this point in time but seriously I have bussed maybe 3 times ever and we all know the numbers of what happens when scum gets exhiled D1 its just not the time or game I make the "gamble" as you say.
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it's weird, hammering yourpartner when you see that they are not going to survive anyway for towncred is one of the most popular things for scum to do in my book and I am genuinely surprised that people think different. Like, the fact of Galzria defending mcmc may be somewhat of a valid argument, but not that
The thing is that Galz was a pure lurker exile and had just made a flurry of activity, so the hope that his wagon would shift at that point was not an unreasonable one
this only gives more "towncred"
I don't think that it's impossible that mcmc hammers there but what about the hammer makes it more likely to come from scum than from town? Scum would be at least tempted I think to see if galz's appearance would take off some of the pressure. If nothing else, I think that if I was in galz's position and had made a huge last-ditch effort like that, and then my partner hammered me, I would be kind of annoyed
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Vote: LL
Good args from mcmc
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This is screaming town v town to me. Mcmc is desperately defending himself against baseless accusations, and LL is trying to make it fit over and over again.
Fine, I guess I'll take the weekend to reread this game.
Unvote (from EFHW) for now.
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This is screaming town v town to me. Mcmc is desperately defending himself against baseless accusations, and LL is trying to make it fit over and over again.
Fine, I guess I'll take the weekend to reread this game.
Unvote (from EFHW) for now.
Cool, but the deadline is tomorrow at 5:20...
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This is screaming town v town to me. Mcmc is desperately defending himself against baseless accusations, and LL is trying to make it fit over and over again.
Fine, I guess I'll take the weekend to reread this game.
Unvote (from EFHW) for now.
Cool, but the deadline is tomorrow at 5:20...
That's 10 pm for me, so I should be done before then.
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
Yes? Especially if LL's town. But that's a good point, I'll need to reread this day too. Not now though, unfortunately.
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
Yes? Especially if LL's town. But that's a good point, I'll need to reread this day too. Not now though, unfortunately.
What does LL being town have to do with it?
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mcmc might be right, sigh, it looks like he's town.
vote: gkrieg
agreeing with me and leaving me to prove my point by myself, but then putting mcmc to E-1 is something scum would do.
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i don't know, you're all scum
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I need to start over from scratch, too.
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i don't know, you're all scum
Nah, just you and one other person lol
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
Given the way D1 went, THAT is something I could very easily see scum doing for towncred since that doesn't close the door on coming back later if mcmc sounds scummy at all after coming back after the wagon gets that high. And that would be ironic since I literally said EFHW got townpoints for doing it.
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
Given the way D1 went, THAT is something I could very easily see scum doing for towncred since that doesn't close the door on coming back later if mcmc sounds scummy at all after coming back after the wagon gets that high. And that would be ironic since I literally said EFHW got townpoints for doing it.
"Leaving a wagon when it gets to X-1" is not something I usually associate with towncred
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I've had a busy day to day, hence my absence. Though in my defence I checked in this morning UK time and nothing had happened since LL talked about sending Didds his cat.
Anyway, I think I'm willing to vote LL here, but it's like 2am, so I'll wait till I have time tomorrow to think more clearly and mend my vote counter.
I also noticed that mcmc said he'd vote me, but then entirely dodged the question when Didds asked why, which still doesn't make me feel good about dropping scrutiny on him.
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I reread D1, so that's something. I still think
Vote: EFHW is correct. Regardless of if scum was bussing or not, I don't think they both were, and EFHW just keeps popping up on people that are definitely not bussing and trying to exile town.
Does scum!efhw leave the mcmc wagon instead of waiting for a claim though? (Presuming mcmc is town)
Given the way D1 went, THAT is something I could very easily see scum doing for towncred since that doesn't close the door on coming back later if mcmc sounds scummy at all after coming back after the wagon gets that high. And that would be ironic since I literally said EFHW got townpoints for doing it.
"Leaving a wagon when it gets to X-1" is not something I usually associate with towncred
Emphasis on "given the way D1 went." It's great that we hit scum, but a second wagon that builds fast like that probably isn't going to repeat those results, so hitting pause for a minute might look better than the same move would in a vacuum.
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Vote Count 2.4:
LaLight (3): MCMC, Dylan23, WestCoastDidds
MCMC (2): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg
gkrieg (2): ADK, LaLight
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): XxRaptorSlayer96, EFHW
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time. That is less than 24 hours!
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Yo, just saying, November 26th was Raptor's last game related post. The literal only post he's made since then was an apology for being gone and a promise to catch up soon, and that was like 4 pages ago. Luckily, he's IC so we don't have to worry about a coin toss lurker exile, but having a more active IC would really help the flow here I feel like.
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My bad guys working through some stuff, no excuse regardless.
Vote: LaLight
I’m around before deadline.
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Actually unvote, don’t want a snap hammer, I’m around now.
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Actually unvote, don’t want a snap hammer, I’m around now.
So got any thoughts about anything other than being willing to vote LL?
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Also, I hope you’re able to work through and handle whatever’s going on!
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i don't really understand why you all want to lynch me, but you do you. I'm a vt
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Reread D2, LL's the scummiest player by far.
Vote: LL, X-2.
Mcmc looks so townie, Space as well, Didds is always town, EFHW is townie enough for today, Dylan depends on LL's flip, gkrieg could be partnered with mcmc but I don't see much else. ADK is ADK.
I'll be on 3 hours before deadline, but probably not earlier.
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vote: lalight
I'm comfortable enough with that
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X-1
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Raptor, why are you thinking LL?
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Deadline is in 4 hours. I’m concerned that no one is around...
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I'm around now. Just iso'd LL, and I'm still comfortable enough to vote there, though that's partly because my allocation of scumpoints for the game right now seems strongly correlated with how much each other player scumreads me, which I recognise is not a very subjective sort of position to take.
PPE 1: Oh, hey, it's almost like I was writing a reply to Didd's post even before I saw she's made it.
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I just got here. I'm fine with LL exile, of course.
Deadline is in 4 hours. I’m concerned that no one is around...
Isn't it 3 hours? I think we're basically just waiting for the IC.
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I'm going to spend a little while seeing how easy it might be to fix the vote counter to work with bolded votes that are part of a multi-line bolded section, which is what my space counter currently trips over in that vote Gkrieg made. I feel a little blind not having a blow-by-blow account of where the winds have been blowing for D2.
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I think we're basically just waiting for the IC.
Really? I know Didds asked Raptor about the LL vote, but given that he's already on the wagon, I'm not sure what else we need. Unless you're thinking that he might want to drop a load of IC wisdom into the thread before nightfall or something?
Anyway, I'm here, and if the wagons stay in their current shape then I'm able to hammer, but I'd also like to have some time to do some reading and processing before just plonking down a hammer because there's omgus and an IC on the wagon...
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I think we're basically just waiting for the IC.
Really? I know Didds asked Raptor about the LL vote, but given that he's already on the wagon, I'm not sure what else we need. Unless you're thinking that he might want to drop a load of IC wisdom into the thread before nightfall or something?
Anyway, I'm here, and if the wagons stay in their current shape then I'm able to hammer, but I'd also like to have some time to do some reading and processing before just plonking down a hammer because there's omgus and an IC on the wagon...
Raptor unvoted
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I was mostly curious about what raptor saw in LL. But if someone with the hammer has to be somewhere before deadline, I don’t think we should leave this to raptor only because I am not 100% that he will remember to show up. :/
Mix, however many hours until 5:20.... I think that is 3 hrs from now, but clocks are weird.
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Ope, you’re right, Mix. 2ish hours from now.
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or we could lynch the real scum, just sayin
vote: mcmc
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Okay, I think the Space Counter is in business again, new and improved, though it's an ugly kludge!
This is the Space Count I currently get:
mcmcsalot (3): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, LaLight
LaLight (5): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, MiX, A Drowned Kernel (X-1)
Not Voting (2): EFHW, Xxraptorslayer96
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I need to start over from scratch, too.
Are you still out there doing some thinking? I just iso'd you (hence re-finding this most recent post), and was surprised to find less content than I might have predicted. I also know that you tend to sound sensible and balanced as any alignment, so I can't even use reading you that way to justify my townread.
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Vote Count 2.5:
LaLight (5): MCMC, Dylan23, WestCoastDidds, MiX, ADK
MCMC (3): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg, LaLight
Not Voting (2): XxRaptorSlayer96, EFHW
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 starts now and ends on December 6th at 5:20pm Forum Time. That is roughly 2 hours!
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[This post is kind of out of sequence... writing the end bit made me question my double-check on EFHW, which made me make the post I did at #462].
Hmm.. here's where I am: I feel a lot more townie about all the people off the LL wagon (with the exception of LL himself) than I do about the people on the wagon (with the exception of Didds).
I just did a quick iso of ADK, as the most recent person to have joined on LL, and they're really not ringing townie bells for me. While there's a lot of engaging content, it's almost all stuff that I could classify as "picking at other people's content" and not so much of the kind of thing that's really generating content and new ideas within the thread. MiX and Dylan both spent time picking at generic stuff I'd posted just in passing when trying to leave helpful observations for later in the game, and we've already discussed reasons for thinking mcmc may deserve scumpoints.
On the other hand, I feel more townie about gkrieg (for pointing out reasons I'm likely to be town from his perspective, where scum really probably doesn't have much use for doing that instead of looking at people to paint as scummy-looking), EFHW, Didds and obviously Raptor.
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I'm here now. Got caught up cleaning out the basement, which is now my office. I'm willing to hammer.
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Intent to hammer
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Go for it
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Sorry if I'm wrong, you just read scummy to me.
Vote: LL
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Vote Count 2.Final:
LaLight (6): MCMC, Dylan23, WestCoastDidds, MiX, ADK, XxRaptorSlayer96
MCMC (3): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg, LaLight
Not Voting (1): EFHW
With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Night 2 starts now and ends on December 8th at 5:00pm Forum Time.
Night Actions are due within 36 hours.
THREAD LOCKED!
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"It's LaLight, it's LaLight! It just has to be", exclaims MCMC.
"I agree! Let's kick him off and be done with it!", says Dylan.
"I am just a passenger! I am just like you! It is MCMC! He is the Hijacker here!", screams LaLight.
"We shall see about that...", Raptor says in a monotone.
Raptor gets up and opens the hatch door. Holding LaLight by the shirt he leans in and whispers,
"Get off my plane"
LaLight has been Lynched. They were Highjacker 99, the Mafia Aligned Strongman
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*Microphone clicks on*
"Attention Passengers.... we are nearing our final destination. We are nearly there, but we just need to hold on a little bit longer. While I was doing my rounds in the middle of the night, while you were all sleeping... I fell upon some unfortunate... uh... bodies...."
Dylan has died at night. They were Passenger 100, the Town Aligned Vanilla Townie.
EFHW has died at night. They were Passenger 9, the Town Aligned Vanilla Townie.
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Vote Count 3.0:
Not Voting (7): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg, MCMC, WestCoastDidds, MiX, ADK, XxRaptorSlayer96
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends on December 15th at 5:00pm Forum Time.
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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space and gkrieg are the people who were on galz and not lalight so I think we should start there
vote: gkrieg
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space and gkrieg are the people who were on galz and not lalight so I think we should start there
vote: gkrieg
What makes this second exile not look like anyone bussed?
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space and gkrieg are the people who were on galz and not lalight so I think we should start there
vote: gkrieg
What makes this second exile not look like anyone bussed?
Because bussing at that point is just giving up
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I know not everyone likes setup talk, but I think D3 is late enough in the game that we can maybe do a bit. Though I apologise for getting to this a bit too late at night to have time to think everything through as well as just post that it's a thing we should be looking at!
Scum flips:
Galz: Godfather
LL: Strongman
Town flips:
faust: VT
Dylan: VT
EFHW: VT
Having 2 deaths in one night means that town has at least one Vig. -> at least one V roll.
We have an IC, which means there's no way our UB converted to a mason, looking at the list of possible M rolls (we must have MM or MMMM).
This means we're guaranteed to have an IC, a UB and a (possibly-shot-limited) Vig, which is three named roles out of 7 players, two of whom have to be unique. (There's technically a tiny chance of VVV leading to one full and one one-shot vig).
Scum only gets a full strongman if we have 0-2 T rolls. That means we can't only have VMMTTT. So either we have a full vig from one of those Ts converting to a V, or we have at least one other town PR out there from the T converting to another (non-M) letter. And then it's possible for either of the other Ts to convert to town-useful roles too!
Anyway, I feel like this is loads of info that we can work with, but I want to be more awake before I finish thinking about whether there's any ridiculous fool-proof strategy for us just to win here...
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Woot!!
I’m totally here for your set up talk, Space. It’s not my skill, but I’m happy to talk out loud with you.
Mix, did you do the dance?!?
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I know not everyone likes setup talk, but I think D3 is late enough in the game that we can maybe do a bit. Though I apologise for getting to this a bit too late at night to have time to think everything through as well as just post that it's a thing we should be looking at!
Scum flips:
Galz: Godfather
LL: Strongman
Town flips:
faust: VT
Dylan: VT
EFHW: VT
Having 2 deaths in one night means that town has at least one Vig. -> at least one V roll.
We have an IC, which means there's no way our UB converted to a mason, looking at the list of possible M rolls (we must have MM or MMMM).
This means we're guaranteed to have an IC, a UB and a (possibly-shot-limited) Vig, which is three named roles out of 7 players, two of whom have to be unique. (There's technically a tiny chance of VVV leading to one full and one one-shot vig).
Scum only gets a full strongman if we have 0-2 T rolls. That means we can't only have VMMTTT. So either we have a full vig from one of those Ts converting to a V, or we have at least one other town PR out there from the T converting to another (non-M) letter. And then it's possible for either of the other Ts to convert to town-useful roles too!
Anyway, I feel like this is loads of info that we can work with, but I want to be more awake before I finish thinking about whether there's any ridiculous fool-proof strategy for us just to win here...
IC + UB + claimed vig + cop with at least one innocent result on a living player would give us 4 confirmed town, which would guarantee victory. So if the last thing exists I believe they should claim
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I've thought through that plan a little more and there's a small wrinkle. But if a cop has an innocent result on me they should definitely claim
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I think the issue with anyone claiming is that the last mafia member is the full roleblocker, which would effectively nullify our vig until they are dead and the UB picks up their role.
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I think the issue with anyone claiming is that the last mafia member is the full roleblocker, which would effectively nullify our vig until they are dead and the UB picks up their role.
I guess that is only important in the case of a full vig.
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I think the issue with anyone claiming is that the last mafia member is the full roleblocker, which would effectively nullify our vig until they are dead and the UB picks up their role.
I guess that is only important in the case of a full vig.
Oh wait, just disregard everything I said. I'm not reading the setup right.
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space and gkrieg are the people who were on galz and not lalight so I think we should start there
vote: gkrieg
What makes this second exile not look like anyone bussed?
Because bussing at that point is just giving up
Not necessarily. Their only chance to not have lalight exiled was to exile mcmc earlier in the day I think.
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Woooo! We're smashing this game so hard! Good job everyone, this game is on track to be perfect!
So I went through the math of this, and we currently have 3 ICs alive. Given one of them is revealed, I see no reason for the others not to claim right now. I propose a plan of claiming I am either the UB or Vig, this gives town what we need to know (ICs) while giving scum the least amount of info (not knowing who to roleblock, in case it's a full vig). I would also say that we shouldn't claim, unless that wins us the game (masons, a cop with a green result on a non-IC (also why it's important to claim who's IC), roleblocker that picked a non-IC), so we can get possibly more info.
Obviously, I'm not either the UB or Vig. Feel free to poke holes at this, there's probably a few, but this should at least be a good strategy.
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I know not everyone likes setup talk, but I think D3 is late enough in the game that we can maybe do a bit. Though I apologise for getting to this a bit too late at night to have time to think everything through as well as just post that it's a thing we should be looking at!
Scum flips:
Galz: Godfather
LL: Strongman
Town flips:
faust: VT
Dylan: VT
EFHW: VT
Having 2 deaths in one night means that town has at least one Vig. -> at least one V roll.
We have an IC, which means there's no way our UB converted to a mason, looking at the list of possible M rolls (we must have MM or MMMM).
This means we're guaranteed to have an IC, a UB and a (possibly-shot-limited) Vig, which is three named roles out of 7 players, two of whom have to be unique. (There's technically a tiny chance of VVV leading to one full and one one-shot vig).
Scum only gets a full strongman if we have 0-2 T rolls. That means we can't only have VMMTTT. So either we have a full vig from one of those Ts converting to a V, or we have at least one other town PR out there from the T converting to another (non-M) letter. And then it's possible for either of the other Ts to convert to town-useful roles too!
Anyway, I feel like this is loads of info that we can work with, but I want to be more awake before I finish thinking about whether there's any ridiculous fool-proof strategy for us just to win here...
This is all true. Thanks for this, or I would've had to say all this in my previous post.
The "ridiculous fool-proof strategy" is really just hoping one of the PRs got anything good, as any one piece of information cracks this game trivially. We can also just win, we have 3 exiles (or at least 3 town-controlled kills) to kill scum out of 4 players, these odds couldn't really be better.
Woot!!
I’m totally here for your set up talk, Space. It’s not my skill, but I’m happy to talk out loud with you.
Mix, did you do the dance?!?
Yeah, it feels good to actually be behind a scum exile instead of defending scum, lol. It felt so rewarding rereading the entire game and coming to the right conclusion.
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Obviously, I'm not either the UB or Vig. Feel free to poke holes at this, there's probably a few, but this should at least be a good strategy.
The flaw is that only IC and UB are guaranteed to be unique, as I sort of said in my late-night post last night.
It means we could have two vigs (a one-shot and a full vig) and still have a valid game configuration (e.g. TMMVVV). Possibly with other letters instead of that T, though of course we haven't (yet?) seen a scum flip bullet-proof, so there's a lower chance...
I've started doing a bit more thinking, and also modifying my Asher9++ code to give me exact numbers on possible game setups, but unfortunately I find myself with a very busy day, so I'll come back to it when I get the chance.
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Well...the full vig will be an IC tomorrow if they're not roleblocked. Assuming they both claim to have shot today, otherwise only one of them is an IC, and everything's fine. This feels like a very edge-case scenario that should be pretty unlikely to happen.
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Woooo! We're smashing this game so hard! Good job everyone, this game is on track to be perfect!
So I went through the math of this, and we currently have 3 ICs alive. Given one of them is revealed, I see no reason for the others not to claim right now. I propose a plan of claiming I am either the UB or Vig, this gives town what we need to know (ICs) while giving scum the least amount of info (not knowing who to roleblock, in case it's a full vig). I would also say that we shouldn't claim, unless that wins us the game (masons, a cop with a green result on a non-IC (also why it's important to claim who's IC), roleblocker that picked a non-IC), so we can get possibly more info.
Obviously, I'm not either the UB or Vig. Feel free to poke holes at this, there's probably a few, but this should at least be a good strategy.
I'm not the UB and I'm not responsible for the second kill last night
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Obviously, I'm not either the UB or Vig. Feel free to poke holes at this, there's probably a few, but this should at least be a good strategy.
The flaw is that only IC and UB are guaranteed to be unique, as I sort of said in my late-night post last night.
It means we could have two vigs (a one-shot and a full vig) and still have a valid game configuration (e.g. TMMVVV). Possibly with other letters instead of that T, though of course we haven't (yet?) seen a scum flip bullet-proof, so there's a lower chance...
I've started doing a bit more thinking, and also modifying my Asher9++ code to give me exact numbers on possible game setups, but unfortunately I find myself with a very busy day, so I'll come back to it when I get the chance.
I don't think scum flip bullet-proof.
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Obviously, I'm not either the UB or Vig. Feel free to poke holes at this, there's probably a few, but this should at least be a good strategy.
The flaw is that only IC and UB are guaranteed to be unique, as I sort of said in my late-night post last night.
It means we could have two vigs (a one-shot and a full vig) and still have a valid game configuration (e.g. TMMVVV). Possibly with other letters instead of that T, though of course we haven't (yet?) seen a scum flip bullet-proof, so there's a lower chance...
I've started doing a bit more thinking, and also modifying my Asher9++ code to give me exact numbers on possible game setups, but unfortunately I find myself with a very busy day, so I'll come back to it when I get the chance.
I don't think scum flip bullet-proof.
Never mind, it is very clear in the rules that they would.
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Never mind, it is very clear in the rules that they would.
You're having kind of a hard time reading the rules today, huh? :-P I just had the whole setup open in a separate tab so I can check it.
Anyway, as a person who's quite capable of getting into setuppy discussions, and also as my fellow person under suspicion (at least as far as ADK claims!), what do you make of MiX's plan?
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Never mind, it is very clear in the rules that they would.
You're having kind of a hard time reading the rules today, huh? :-P I just had the whole setup open in a separate tab so I can check it.
Anyway, as a person who's quite capable of getting into setuppy discussions, and also as my fellow person under suspicion (at least as far as ADK claims!), what do you make of MiX's plan?
I've just gotten out of the habit of checking the setup before I post about it...
I think it is unfortunately one of those plans we should either go along with without much discussion, or one that we should discuss and not go along with. As discussing it basically tells scum what to claim. Really, we are just getting rid of our vig (well making it a 50/50 whether they are useless) and trading them for an IC, which might not be too bad a trade.
I also think that us being the only two under suspicion is slightly ridiculous. I think LaLight was acting reasonably scummy, so it would have been very easy for a partner to bus.
I am either the UB or some kind of vigilante
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I also have something to say after everyone has claimed [UB or vig] yes/no.
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Unvote
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Okay, well I'm neither UB nor any kind of vig.
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Also I've got a probability list of all the remaining possible configurations, but I'll go along with gkrieg's plan of not discussing stuff more until everyone relevant has claimed.
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So just mcmc and WCD to claim still.
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I am neither the UB nor any kind of vig!
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We might need to prod mcmc. He hasn’t been around yet this day.
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I am either the vig or the ub
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Cool. That makes both me and mcmc ICs.
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This is so exciting!!
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Coolio
vote: space
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I’ll put in some dedicated rereading a little later today.
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Vote: ADK
a. They came into this game day with a weak wagon-based case on me and gkrieg, without any comment about what the brand new flip info can do for us.
b. They're laying a clear set-up for a wiggle-room claim by saying "I'm not responsible for the second kill last night" instead of just outright "not a vig", like the rest of us have been saying. It's kind of set up to hint at a claim of being a second vig.
c. They're also making hints about a cop, but if we do have a cop, then having a second vig (see point b) is super-unlikely, because it would require a no-T roll, and then for bulletproof to have landed randomly on the one scum we haven't flipped yet.
Beyond that, I think Didds's position on both correct scum exiles means she's very unlikely to be scum, and my only other two options are MiX and ADK. Wagon-wise, ADK being scum would mean they held a pretty good bus on Galz early D1, which was what I'd assigned them D2 townpoints for after Galz's exile, but I'd even been observing late in D2 that actually their play has been more picky and critical rather than being focused on scum-catching.
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Vote: ADK
I was thinking the exact same thing. Not sure what else I can say.
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Vote: ADK
a. They came into this game day with a weak wagon-based case on me and gkrieg, without any comment about what the brand new flip info can do for us.
b. They're laying a clear set-up for a wiggle-room claim by saying "I'm not responsible for the second kill last night" instead of just outright "not a vig", like the rest of us have been saying. It's kind of set up to hint at a claim of being a second vig.
c. They're also making hints about a cop, but if we do have a cop, then having a second vig (see point b) is super-unlikely, because it would require a no-T roll, and then for bulletproof to have landed randomly on the one scum we haven't flipped yet.
Beyond that, I think Didds's position on both correct scum exiles means she's very unlikely to be scum, and my only other two options are MiX and ADK. Wagon-wise, ADK being scum would mean they held a pretty good bus on Galz early D1, which was what I'd assigned them D2 townpoints for after Galz's exile, but I'd even been observing late in D2 that actually their play has been more picky and critical rather than being focused on scum-catching.
a) I call it a pretty good care, and I don't see how two VT flips give us a ton of more info
b) my claim gives the important information for town while concealing information from scum
c) when I was talking about the cop, it was at a point that I realized that having a cop claim an innocent result on me, even if it was a scum fakeclaim, would guarantee town victory
d) how is arguing against wagons on town not scum hunting? POE is a powerful tool, and I generally find it easier to figure out who I think is town and go from there
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Vote: ADK
I was thinking the exact same thing. Not sure what else I can say.
Which part were you thinking?
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I just realized something, and I hate to go back to setup talk, but if the vig is a one-shot then a fullclaim at this point solves the game
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No, nevermind, I'm dumb
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Obviously we win if any of the non-ICs are anything other than VT, claim as such, and we believe them. But my guess is that we are in MMVVTT and that we just have the one full vig.
I'm basically between ADK and MiX right now.
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I'm surprised that ADK is sticking to their original case on space, and not trying to expand on it any more. It just seems too flimsy for ADK.
I also still think that MiX's D1 is very scummy, and that he would very easily be bold enough to try to get people to not vote for galz.
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I've been following through a few hypotheticals:
If ADK is scum:
1. Busses Galz really early (3rd post of the game), and stays there in spite of Galz becoming an early bigest wagon at 3 votes while nobody else had more than 1 for much of that time.
2. Was the last to leave the early Galz wagon, after Raptor and faust had moved their votes elsewhere.
3. Moves briefly to Dylan, then to mcmc, where they end the day not on the Galz wagon.
4. D2, spends most of the day on gkrieg, beore moving to LL in the X-1 position when the exile looked inevitable.
5. Opens D3 going back to gkrieg, not even really acknowledging any of the extra info the 3 intervening flips gave us.
If MiX is scum:
1. Spends most of D1 on mcmc from as early as #42, which was only the 12th post of the whole game.
2. Moves off a three-person mcmc wagon (the leading alternative to the 5-person Galz wagon) to bus LL at #203.
3. Moves back to mcmc at #220 to end D1 there, with a lot of arguing about why exiling Galz is a bad idea.
4. Spends almost all of D2 on EFHW, with a slight blip of unvoting from #426 to #429. Motable that MiX says at #426 mcmc-vs-LL looks like town-v-town though.
5. Joins the LL wagon at X-2 at #448, where Raptor hammers at #468. (EFHW and I were also around and stating willingness to vote, from scum's perspective, byt the time X-2 happened, LL was basically going to get exiled, so being x-2 rather than X-1 isn't any less scummy really).
If Didds is scum:
1. Took a long time to commit to any wagon. Finally voted for scum!Galz when mcmc and I were both on three votes each and I had a protest vote on Didds herself. I just don't see scum!Didds going for a needless bus there when there were good voting possibilities.
2. She's around and engages in discussion about why an absent-Galz exile is okay, and also about who to look to for a sub, but ultimately doesn't use any of that as an excuse to move her vote, even though her suggestion of asking Joth or Glooble to sub happens at #219, when Galz was on 5 votes.
3. In fact, LL joins the Galz wagon at #202, because presumably it looked inevitable for scum by then. If LL and Didds have instead moved to Mcmc, the wagons would be level, which would have been way better for scum.
4. Didds was on a 5-person town!mcmc wagon in D2, but when that shrank to 4, she moved onto third place on the scum!LL wagon, and then stayed there all through the exile.
Well, Didds just doesn't look like scum here at all to me. MiX looks pretty scummy again, especially with the Galz-defending D1 and the throwaway town-v-town comment D2. He was also very willing to join me quickly on ADK in the D3 voting, which set off a little alarm bell for me. So yeah, it's MiX or ADK.
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Vote: ADK
I was thinking the exact same thing. Not sure what else I can say.
Which part were you thinking?
The way you came in D3, how you voted D2, not being on the Galz wagon...all of this points to you being the most likely scum. Also that Didds is town.
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I'm surprised that ADK is sticking to their original case on space, and not trying to expand on it any more. It just seems too flimsy for ADK.
I also still think that MiX's D1 is very scummy, and that he would very easily be bold enough to try to get people to not vote for galz.
I mean I'm also pretty sure didds is town, so exiling me, space and mix wins anyway, so I'm not super concerned
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5. Opens D3 going back to gkrieg, not even really acknowledging any of the extra info the 3 intervening flips gave us.
Lalight being scum gave us the info that scum was indeed bussing day one. I thought it was unlikely that scum would be willing to sacrifice another player on day two. I think my case sums up the info we get from the lalight flip pretty nicely
What info does EFHW and Dylan flipping as VTs get us?
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I'm open to an ADK exile
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Vote Count 3.1:
ADK (2): SpaceAnemone, MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): ADK
Not Voting (4): , gkrieg, MCMC, WestCoastDidds, XxRaptorSlayer96
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends on December 15th at 5:00pm Forum Time.
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vote: MiX
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Vote: MiX
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Vote: MiX
That's uncharacteristically terse of you. Do you have any thoughts?
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Vote: MiX
That's uncharacteristically terse of you. Do you have any thoughts?
Right? I am turning over new leaves, I tell you.
Really, I wanted to see what MiX might have to say about it.
For me, the decision is between you and MiX. I don't think Space works this hard for town if they aren't town. I don't think that you'd have been cute with the "I am not responsible for the second kill last night" response if you were scum. Not a huge reason, but perhaps enough. MiX, on the other hand, worked fairly hard to prevent the Galz exile, and then came out on D2 saying "I wouldn't have done that if I were scum" except maybe he would. I know he has been busy busy, but he is also way more low key than usual. MiX is a smart and wily player, and between Space and I, low key and friendly play is going to go further for him than being aggro. Finally, MiX well knows that the way to my heart is to make me feel secure. Reasserting that he thinks I am town does that (<3 you, MiXy). So, that's where I'm at.
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I'm okay switching my vote to MiX, but it would be nice to hear from the other two ICs before we move to end the day, so I'm staying where I am for now.
I know the ICs have worse PoE than the rest of us, but they're guaranteed to have town's best interests at heart, so it seems unwise to make a decision without two out of the three of them weighing in.
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Agreed
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Prod dodge. Not feeling well today.
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I actually don’t know that the ic’s not saying much is a bad idea.
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I actually don’t know that the ic’s not saying much is a bad idea.
Do the ICs want to vote?
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Prod dodge. Not feeling well today.
Bummer, friend. I hope you feel better soon.
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Prod dodge. Not feeling well today.
Bummer, friend. I hope you feel better soon.
Thanks Didds.
I don't care if we exile me or ADK today, we're the most scumread people, so scum will always reflect suspicion to us. Just get the ICs to agree on who's 100% town and kill the rest.
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Well, I'm happy to follow gkrieg if mcmc doesn't want to say anything more.
Vote: MiX
X-1
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It's good odds, intent to hammer
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Vote Count 3.2:
MiX (3): gkrieg, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
ADK (1): MiX
SpaceAnemone (1): ADK
Not Voting (2): MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends on December 15th at 5:00pm Forum Time.
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It's good odds, intent to hammer
Wait, you're not voting me already?
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It's good odds, intent to hammer
Wait, you're not voting me already?
Not currently. But I take it you don't have anything to claim?
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vote: mix
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I don’t like the hammer from ADK. It’s very scummy.
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I don’t like the hammer from ADK. It’s very scummy.
Who else was going to hammer? With you saying you had nothing further to say, and Raptor being awol, the votes for MiX were obviously going to have to come from gkrieg, Didds, me and ADK, so there wasn't really any surprise about the vote. And ADK was the most obvious alternative, so it's not like they weren't going to vote for MiX, as any alignment.
If you just mean the tone, I think they'd hung around for long enough to give MiX time to claim something (since there may be other PRs out there), and then just gone for it. I think MiX's vote on ADK just after I'd voted for them earlier in the day was way more scummy-looking.
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I don’t like the hammer from ADK. It’s very scummy.
You're right, it was wrong of me to put cut off all the thrilling discussion that's been happening
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I don’t like the hammer from ADK. It’s very scummy.
You're right, it was wrong of me to put cut off all the thrilling discussion that's been happening
Love me some salty ADK!
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I also generally appreciate having nights coincide with weekends.
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You know, I was off to bed when I said that, so I didn't think you'd hammer me. I honestly forgot about claiming.
But...being sick and all, I woke up again shortly after, and I saw your post about claiming. I thought I would have another day to defend myself (and I was extremely tired), so I didn't say anything.
Oh well, I think town deserves this perfect sweep. I mean, what were the odds of being on Galzria's team when town decides to kill him D1, right?
Mcmc, I knew you were a PR since your first(ish?) post. I roleblocked you twice, and we almost killed you, but we thought that you were scummy enough in D2 (LL was right :P ), and then I just needed to get lucky on people I wasn't roleblocking. As it turns out, you can't roleblock the UB. Yeah. This setup completely blindsided me.
gkrieg, I really thought you'd have shot me, I'm really surprised you killed EFHW, considering that was almost going to be my target as well. I would've been in a much better position had that happened :P
I really just lurked this game basically, didn't know what to do at all. These last few days didn't help either, but the game was lost by now.
I could probably comment on some posts, but I'd be lying if I said I was paying attention to what most people were saying.
Can someone wake up Swowl? I wanna see Speccy.
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Yaaaaay! Awesome game everyone. I didn’t think your hammer was bad ADK I just wanted you to roleblock me if you were scum.
Yea I wasn’t very stealthy this game. I hammered galz 100% because I was pretty sure he had me pegged as a pr and I wanted to get him out before he could tell you and lalight his thoughts lol.
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So exciting!!!
I haven’t been consistently right in such a long time....
(Insert excited dancing here)
Space, you were so great!! Mix, I hope you feel better. Smarty mcmc drawing the roleblocks is awesome, too!
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Yaaaaay! Awesome game everyone. I didn’t think your hammer was bad ADK I just wanted you to roleblock me if you were scum.
Yea I wasn’t very stealthy this game. I hammered galz 100% because I was pretty sure he had me pegged as a pr and I wanted to get him out before he could tell you and lalight his thoughts lol.
Ha. Yeah I wish I had looked at the setup N1 to realize that there's PRs that don't target, but honestly I just fully memorized the roll table, and forgot about the UB at the top. My scummy radar being a very accurate PR radar is still going strong though, although I think this game shows that this is bad for both town me AND scum me. I thought I could take advantage of it here, but it didn't really help much...
So exciting!!!
I haven’t been consistently right in such a long time....
(Insert excited dancing here)
Space, you were so great!! Mix, I hope you feel better. Smarty mcmc drawing the roleblocks is awesome, too!
Yeah, you were annoying for us for sure. Maybe just for me :P
I never danced. The game just hurt me from the inside. Scum chat has some interesting logs of how broken I was at some points during the game.
I am better now, it basically lasted 2 days...which were also the days where I needed to live to start the exile chain going (ADK->Space->1v1 with you (which I would consider a win because lol I can't win that)). That was also unfortunate, which goes along with the rest of the game.
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Mwhahahah.... that might be the only kind of annoying that I’m okay with! Still, I appreciate you not killing me.
I just hate it that you’ve been suffering. Galz and LL as buddies would be super duper fun, too, but if you’re feeling rummy it would be hard to enjoy it properly.
This game I tried really hard to trust ADK. I realize my ADK radar is broken and that it often hurts me/us because I get stuck. That didn’t help your cause. And Space has been consistently on fire, and mostly right, in our last two games.
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Yay!
MiX you would’ve been my shot tonight for sure.
I’m glad I made a D1 alliance with Space. Saved me a lot of time doubting them for sure!
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Yay!
MiX you would’ve been my shot tonight for sure.
I’m glad I made a D1 alliance with Space. Saved me a lot of time doubting them for sure!
You were a full vig? Damn.
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MiX you would’ve been my shot tonight for sure.
You were a full vig? Damn.
I pretty much took this to be a full-vig claim from gkrieg:
Obviously we win if any of the non-ICs are anything other than VT, claim as such, and we believe them. But my guess is that we are in MMVVTT and that we just have the one full vig.
If he was only a one-shot vig, then one of the other non-ICs would have to have been keeping some kind of role a secret, and I think Didds and I at least were both pretty clearly being VT-townie to the best of our abilities :-P
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gkrieg, I really thought you'd have shot me, I'm really surprised you killed EFHW, considering that was almost going to be my target as well. I would've been in a much better position had that happened :P
Wow, that's the opposite way around from what I would have expected! I considered pointing out that it might be simple for scum to work out which one of the gkrieg-mcmc pair was the vig just based on the choice of targets because I thought gkreig would be more likely to shoot at Dylan, and mcmc at EFHW, who'd at least been scumreading him. But I figured that making that sort of observation wasn't really useful to anyone except perhaps scum, so I stayed quiet on it, and now I'm glad I did :-P
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And Space has been consistently on fire, and mostly right, in our last two games.
Aw, thanks! You're going to absolutely slaughter me sometime when I get too used to reading you as this townie :-P
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And Space has been consistently on fire, and mostly right, in our last two games.
Aw, thanks! You're going to absolutely slaughter me sometime when I get too used to reading you as this townie :-P
Its so much fun when we are the same team!!
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FINAL Vote Count :
MiX (4): gkrieg, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, ADK
ADK (1): MiX
Not Voting (2): MCMC, XxRaptorSlayer96
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
MiX was the final Highjacker! More formal information later today!
GAME OVER TOWN WINS!
THREAD UNLOCKED!
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Good job town!
Thanks for the game Swowl! I really enjoyed the flavor. I think you have a knack for this!
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Is it a perfect win when every exile was scum but the vig shot town?
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Is it a perfect win when every exile was scum but the vig shot town?
Considering the vig shot a VT, which made scum have to exile literally everyone else that could possibly be scum first with 3 ICs alive, yes I'd consider it a perfect win. As this game hopefully shows, vigs don't need to hit scum to win games.
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Wow.
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Is it a perfect win when every exile was scum but the vig shot town?
Considering the vig shot a VT, which made scum have to exile literally everyone else that could possibly be scum first with 3 ICs alive, yes I'd consider it a perfect win. As this game hopefully shows, vigs don't need to hit scum to win games.
The same reasoning can be applied to a VT exile of course.
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OK! Sorry for the delay!
- MiX was Highjacker 23, the Mafia Aligned Roleblocker.
- The Set Up:
MM = IC - Raptor
VV = Vig - GK
E = 1-shot Doctor (coin flip went for doc) - ADK
T = VT
Skum = Strongman, RB, GF
- Mafia Thread: https://quicktopic.com/53/H/FNshwvpHyKvT
- Speccy Thread: https://quicktopic.com/53/H/HTn8kmtjqhGk
That was a fast game! Very good job to Town! I would consider this a flawless win - but in fairness, I would consider any game where Town lynched Mafia 100% of the time to be considered flawless. Not sure what the "real definition" is - but I think this one is flawless.
Day 1: I straight up (albeit, from a bias pov) that it ended up going Galz when it got to like 16 hours to DL and it was tied MCMC/Galz. I thought it was gonna be just amazing for skum there. I assumed skum would take the set up of the MC and Space wagons, Galz goes 1.... which happened. And while I get the mindset behind the choice of space vs MCMC in that spot... the fact that Space could not still hammer, and MCMC could made it very risky. I have mixed feelings about the LL bus in the 11th hour (but that is mainly due to the fact that they SOMEHOW STILL GOT LYNCHED THE NEXT DAY)... but yeah that was a critical 12 hours there.
Night 1: They were like thisssssss close to killing the UB on night 1, then switched it to faust. They also correctly ID'd both MCMC and ADK as potential PRs. I think ADK and GK's choice to hold shots there were obviously correct.
Day 2: Amazing case to be made day 2 with the push from MCMC and Dylan on LL. I thought LL's vote timing on Day 1 was going to be far and away enough to buy them a safe ticket for like... at least a day or two. So yeah, good job to town there as well.
Night 2: Again, almost went for MCMC lol. However, as it turns out they ended on Dylan, which actually was a good kill, because they had their buckets figured out pretty damn well. GK mathed out the scenario for IC correctly, and imo ADK correctly protected Raptor.
Day 3: I don't play favorites when I mod... but when MiX opened with the UB/Vig claim idea... I was really rooting for them! That was a great idea. At the time, MiX literally needed to be able to kill a PR every single night remaining in order to not get to IC-IC-skum on the final day (and they knew it, after the vig kill). However, they did not know if/what the final PR existed/was.... and that plan, imo, was a good one. Alas, very good job to Town again, for going 3/3 and finding skum there again.
It was a fast, but good game. I think the general theme of the game here "skum did not make the moves they needed to make when they needed to make them". Not to take anything away from Town - great game!, those are just my thoughts.
I also like to give MVPs in my games for fun. I am torn on this one between 3 players. I would like to open that up to opinions.
Thank you very much for playing everyone! I hope you had fun!
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Thank you, Swowl!! It was fast, but super fun!
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I miss you all!
xoxo
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(I would definitely play a game if we had one going.)
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Yeah, I keep checking for a new game pretty consistently, so I'm auto-in as soon as someone wants to run one lol.
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I'm just waiting for BSG to to start. So say we all! (I guess the question is: when do we all say so?? :)
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I was hung up on my treasure hunt.
Over now, so i Could run a quickie normal one while Faust finishes up BSG if peeps are interested
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I was hung up on my treasure hunt.
Over now, so i Could run a quickie normal one while Faust finishes up BSG if peeps are interested
please please please!
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New game open for sign ups - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20680.0