Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 30, 2020, 04:39:43 am
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I just read the wiki on sifters and I realized that Library isn't included in the cards list. I absolutely think that it is a sifter, letting you skip dead Action cards when drawing. So why isn't it included?
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It doesn't give you enough control over what you draw to really qualify since you can only skip actions.
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I'd say it's a sifter. Not super powerful in that regard, but frequently enough in a Library engine you want to set aside some excess terminals that you draw. But it's not really useful to think in these strict categories anyways. There are many deck in which Vagrant acts as a sifter even though it doesn't technically discard any cards.
Edit: Just saw that the wiki has a separate entry for digging cards. Library is probably more of a digger than it is a sifter then. (But it's not included on that list either.)
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It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
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It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.
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It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.
Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It doesn't feel like a sifter to me because you have so little control. And the term "digger" is like "tutor" to me, which isn't what Library does either.
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As long as we're clear that the question of whether or not Library is a sifter has no bearing whatsoever on what Library is doing or how strong it is
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
Specifically, you can avoid having 2 Libraries in hand, which comes up quite often in an engine centering on Library.
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.
You're not drawing your entire deck at once.
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Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It's not a mistake, it works fine. You just don't ever use the skipping ability in a draw-to-x-engine.
You certainly do. In the extreme, if you have a deck of only action cards, Library gives the the ability to choose precisely the cards you want from your entire deck.
You're also drawing your entire deck so it almost certainly doesn't matter.
You're not drawing your entire deck at once.
Sure, but there aren't very many ways to draw a hand you aren't happy with in a deck that only contains Action cards, unless it's full of Ruins I guess.
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Ehh I have used the sifting quite often. First there are the obvious combos: Bustling village, Swashbuckler (if this or Lib came out of the BM deck), Mountain village and the like.
Then there is the utility of balancing your draw. Mv is an extreme example of this, but in general, you want to draw villages before terminal payload. With Mv you can use all of your draw slots to hit Mv and then pull payload out of the trash. Two Libs can draw 14 cards which lets you hit say 6 terminal payloads (e.g. Gladiator, Animal Fair, Count, Goons) and this is much more likely if you don't have to waste say 2 of your first 4 draw slots on payload you might be able to use. I will routinely skip my terminals to hit my villages on the first run through and then draw all of them on the second. For some setups this is just crazy more efficient (e.g. Native village is much more valuable if you can play 6 in a row than having to use 1/2 to take something off the mat or risk stranding one of your villages for the turn). And of course there are things like Golem/non-terminal (e.g. Golem/Candlestick maker) where you pretty much always want to dump non-Golems to play more Golems. And sometimes your "village" needs a specific combo (e.g. Horse + Procession) and you benefit from fishing for one component over the other.
Then there are combos were order matters. Skipping your Masquerade to draw & play the Militia first is often a far superior move. As are things like getting down Priests before other trashers (e.g. Priest/Fortress/Junk dealer), Liveries before gainers (e.g. Iw/Livery), or attacks before Soldiers.
Then there is the whole defense against useless actions. Ruins for instance. But also actions not worth playing any more (e.g. Chapel) or too dangerous to play (e.g. Hermit with piles approaching).
This is all sifting in some fashion. And I do something from this list most every game (the most common being flipping a terminal in hopes of hitting a village I need to play the terminals already in hand).
If you really want the value of the sifting to be clear, think of a Village/Goons/Donate/Advance setup, you will have no non-actions, treasure is pretty much useless for bootstrapping, and you want lots of efficient draw: would you take Scholar or Lib for your draw? The sifting makes this no contest for me.
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It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
yeah its a scout variant
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It's the opposite of a sifter, it lets you skip good cards to find your bad cards.
Depends on what deck you're building, and the presence of splitters.
Even if you're building a bad deck, Library still doesn't skip Victory cards and Curses. Trying to build a draw-to-x-engine on the basis of Library sounds like a big mistake.
It doesn't feel like a sifter to me because you have so little control. And the term "digger" is like "tutor" to me, which isn't what Library does either.
unless Villa or Cavalry is on the board