Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Rush_Clasic on July 14, 2020, 10:26:43 pm
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
At the start of your Buy phase: Convert all of your unused Actions into Buys.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up. EDIT: Changed the wording to detract from TR/KC combos giving an overwhleming number of buys. It's not a huge issue, but this gives enough buys as is; no need to go over the top.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $4*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
This costs $2 less during your buy phase.
There are plenty of ways to alter costs in the game. The primary goal is usually to make things more affordable or occasionally to tax the opponent. But trashing is a unique way to care about costs. Trashers have cared about costs all the way back to the early days of Mine and Remodel, and the tradition continues with Scarp and friends. I wanted a cheap card that benefited you later in trash games but left it up to you to figure out how. I thought about making it just a cantrip, but without trashers, it felt worthless. So I went for Market Square instead. Maybe that bumps it to $3; not sure how we feel about $2-cost cantrip buyers these days.
EDIT: Changed from costing different during trashing to costing different during buying and reversing the costs. While it loses some of the focus that the line "while being trashed" provides, I agree with LastFootnote that it just makes the card cleaner and better overall.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
That makes plenty of sense, accomplishes the same general idea, and is admittedly cleaner. I didn't think of it. Good catch.
Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
I don't know how imposing this is. Crazy pile-out combos already exist all over the place. This gives you no economy, so you'd need a ton of villages and cost reducers to really get intense piling. Only testing will tell.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
Not clear on what's special about Butcher here; doesn't the same logic apply to Remodel, Upgrade, Remake, etc? At (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost, you can trash a Copper with Remodel to gain a Refinery, at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) you can't. I still think your idea is a good one; I just think you're forgetting about TFB when you say that most gainers aren't going to care.
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
Not clear on what's special about Butcher here; doesn't the same logic apply to Remodel, Upgrade, Remake, etc? At (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost, you can trash a Copper with Remodel to gain a Refinery, at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) you can't. I still think your idea is a good one; I just think you're forgetting about TFB when you say that most gainers aren't going to care.
Good point. I guess I'm just worried about what "while being trashed" actually means, as well as how cost increases interact with cost decreases.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
Not clear on what's special about Butcher here; doesn't the same logic apply to Remodel, Upgrade, Remake, etc? At (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost, you can trash a Copper with Remodel to gain a Refinery, at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) you can't. I still think your idea is a good one; I just think you're forgetting about TFB when you say that most gainers aren't going to care.
Good point. I guess I'm just worried about what "while being trashed" actually means, as well as how cost increases interact with cost decreases.
But what was special about Butcher that made you name it as a notable exception to the idea that gainers wouldn't care if it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) or (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)?
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
Not clear on what's special about Butcher here; doesn't the same logic apply to Remodel, Upgrade, Remake, etc? At (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost, you can trash a Copper with Remodel to gain a Refinery, at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) you can't. I still think your idea is a good one; I just think you're forgetting about TFB when you say that most gainers aren't going to care.
Good point. I guess I'm just worried about what "while being trashed" actually means, as well as how cost increases interact with cost decreases.
But what was special about Butcher that made you name it as a notable exception to the idea that gainers wouldn't care if it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) or (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)?
I guess it's because Butcher is very good for turning Estates into good $2 cards and pocketing the 2 Coffers. I mostly do not consider remodeling Coppers with Remodel or Butcher; it's a desperate move that I'll only do if I really care about my Action density (Herald, Scrying Pool) and I don't have any other way to trash them.
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#50 - Refinery
Refinery - $2*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
This costs $2 more while being trashed.
Wouldn't it be better/easier if it cost $4 and was $2 cheaper during your Buy phase? Most gainers aren't going to care that it costs $2 vs. $4 (Butcher being a notable exception).
Not clear on what's special about Butcher here; doesn't the same logic apply to Remodel, Upgrade, Remake, etc? At (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost, you can trash a Copper with Remodel to gain a Refinery, at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) you can't. I still think your idea is a good one; I just think you're forgetting about TFB when you say that most gainers aren't going to care.
Good point. I guess I'm just worried about what "while being trashed" actually means, as well as how cost increases interact with cost decreases.
But what was special about Butcher that made you name it as a notable exception to the idea that gainers wouldn't care if it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) or (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)?
I guess it's because Butcher is very good for turning Estates into good $2 cards and pocketing the 2 Coffers. I mostly do not consider remodeling Coppers with Remodel or Butcher; it's a desperate move that I'll only do if I really care about my Action density (Herald, Scrying Pool) and I don't have any other way to trash them.
Ah ok.
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.
Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.
I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.
Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.
I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.
They are stop cards and without cost reduction, the marginal benefit of an additional Buy decreases massively.
So no, there is no craziness. If there is any, it is due to the cost reducers, not due to some very weak Necropolis+.
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.
Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.
I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.
They are stop cards and without cost reduction, the marginal benefit of an additional Buy decreases massively.
So no, there is no craziness. If there is any, it is due to the cost reducers, not due to some very weak Necropolis+.
Playing nothing at all buy KC+Pit Stop gives you 18 buys. From just 2 cards. It's far too close to "in games using this; there is no buy limit".
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
Aside from concerns about it being too crazy; it has a wording issue... I guess you mean "At the start of your buy phase" instead of "during your buy phase". But you can't really have something that happens "during" a phase; it has to be one specific time.
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This is one of the problems with elegance in design: a simple idea with simple wording often has too much open-endedness and allows for crazy things to happen. At the end of the day, it could probably just be "+2 Actions, +1 Buy" which is even more elegant but functions nicely. It's just a lot less exciting. I'm open to suggestions on how best to alter it. Maybe "At the start of your Buy phase, if you have 2 or more unused Actions, +2 Buys." Or maybe it should just stay as is. Anywho....
#51 - Tiddlywinks
Tiddlywinks - $5
Treasure
$2
Reveal the top card of your deck. If its a Copper, play it. Otherwise, discard it or leave it on top.
You flick the top card and if you're skilled enough (or lucky enough), you get a prize! I was working on a nuttier idea that allowed you to always play Coppers from the top of your deck when I thought about the $5 Gold cards that get printed from time to time. Originally it was just gonna do the Copper thing, but you already need to mess with the top of your deck for it to work; might as well throw in a little Spy action.
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.
Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.
I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.
They are stop cards and without cost reduction, the marginal benefit of an additional Buy decreases massively.
So no, there is no craziness. If there is any, it is due to the cost reducers, not due to some very weak Necropolis+.
Playing nothing at all buy KC+Pit Stop gives you 18 buys. From just 2 cards. It's far too close to "in games using this; there is no buy limit".
Does the craziness come from Pit Stop or KC? And in how many Kingdoms with Pit Stop and KC are 18 Buys worth significantly more than 3 or 4?
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Been a while since I posted or designed anything Dominion-oriented. I just got to play the last four or so sets for the first time, so I'm a bit behind the curve. Felt like designing a few things with no real goal in mind. Gonna number them since I already have everything else I've designed saved here on the forums.
#49 - Pit Stop
Pit Stop - $2
Action
+2 Actions
During your Buy phase: +1 Buy per unused Action you have.
It's fun making cheap Villages, and I've always liked Diadem as a design. This felt like a good, simple way to use that idea. I'll post more in this thread later as I clean them up.
This sounds really dangerous to me. If you play multiple of these in a Kingdom with more +Actions cards you can quickly get to upwards of 20 Buys.
I don't think this is problematic if you only get the effect once, such as with the wording "you may spend unused Actions for +1 Buy per Action".
On the contrary, the card is far weaker than Hamlet, Squire or Druid. The only it beats which provides extra Buys is sometimes Pawn.
I don't think the power level of the card on average is problematic, the high end seems way too crazy for my liking though.
Aside from the extreme end of being able to empty the copper pile in one turn (King's Court, Royal Carriage, and Champion all make this relatively easy to do), this also does silly things with cost reduction. Put a few Highways in play alongside 3 Pit Stops and now you've just bought an entire pile in one turn. I know you can do this in other ways but as far as I am aware there is no other nonterminal that you can play 3 copies of to get a total of +9 Buys, let alone one that costs $2.
I don't think the concept of being able to turn Actions into Buys is problematic, the quadratic scaling just gets out of hand way too quickly when having a ton of +Buys is useful.
They are stop cards and without cost reduction, the marginal benefit of an additional Buy decreases massively.
So no, there is no craziness. If there is any, it is due to the cost reducers, not due to some very weak Necropolis+.
Playing nothing at all buy KC+Pit Stop gives you 18 buys. From just 2 cards. It's far too close to "in games using this; there is no buy limit".
Does the craziness come from Pit Stop or KC? And in how many Kingdoms with Pit Stop and KC are 18 Buys worth significantly more than 3 or 4?
I think the craziness comes from Pit Stop - I would argue there's no other card that comes close to giving you as many +Buys off of KC. A +Buy'd Squire or Sir Martin only gives half that amount, and that's a somewhat difficult case to trigger (Teacher is required in the case of Squire, and you have to either grab Sir Martin specifically with Seaway or use a cost reducer if not using Teacher), in comparison to Pit Stop which needs no such token to already provide twice as much.
+18 Buys isn't often useful, but in the situations you do want it Pit Stop makes it way too easy to obtain.
The bottom line for me is that changing Pit Stop to not stack wouldn't appreciably change the power level of the card on average but prevents it from being completely insane when it's good.
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I do not see the insanity. The extra Buys are only useful with cost reduction. Furthermore you need KC, which makes all engines so much better, or you need draw power to actually draw into stop cards that do nothing beyond producing Buys.
Id rather KC a cantrip that provides Buys like Market Square as it net draws a card and net yields two Actions. Seem like a much smoother engine component. Seriously, this matters, nobody loves KCing stuff that does not draw. Even with cost reduction, it only matters for the last turn whether you can buy 5 or 15 cards.
So we need Pit Stop and Highway plus draw power to make Pit Stop stop being a below average power $2. Does not seem to compensate how weak it is in the quadrillion of other Kingdoms. Instead of worrying about the card being overpowered in rare situations, I rather worry about it being to weak in most Kingdoms.
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A +Buy'd Squire or Sir Martin only gives half that amount, and that's a somewhat difficult case to trigger (Teacher is required in the case of Squire, and you have to either grab Sir Martin specifically with Seaway or use a cost reducer if not using Teacher)
Wait, you can use Seaway with Squire, right?
Anyway, I wouldn't even be including the +buy token for comparison here, because if you did, you could also consider having the +buy token on Pit Stop. So I would say that KC+Any card can give at most 6 extra buys; while KC+Pit Stop gives 18.
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The bottom line for me is that changing Pit Stop to not stack wouldn't appreciably change the power level of the card on average but prevents it from being completely insane when it's good.
TR/KC interactions are just something I forgot about, wording-wise. I don't know if there is accepted language for this, but I'm trying "Convert all your unused Actions into Buys." Convert is a simple enough word that clearly shows a process of change.
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The bottom line for me is that changing Pit Stop to not stack wouldn't appreciably change the power level of the card on average but prevents it from being completely insane when it's good.
TR/KC interactions are just something I forgot about, wording-wise. I don't know if there is accepted language for this, but I'm trying "Convert all your unused Actions into Buys." Convert is a simple enough word that clearly shows a process of change.
The standard way to prevent something from being crazy with KC/TR is to put the effect under-the-line as a "while this is in play" instead of an on-play effect.
In this case you could do something like "while this is in play, you can buy a card by spending an unused action instead of spending a buy". It seems weird, but I think it's clear.
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, set it aside. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards, then discard the set aside cards.
Who has time to waste on estates? Who wants to deal with other folks digging after similar fortunes? Not a prospector! I wanted a card that played around in that Library area of skipping things it couldn't use. Making a cheap, terminal draw that skipped itself and your worst starting card seemed like a nice fit. Sure, terminal draw 2s tend to be weak, but it has some uses. And it's too nice the way it is to muddy it with superfluous extras. (Though I did consider an on-gain effect that allowed you to gain a different $2 cost card. Because gaining estates is fun, ya?)
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
Who has time to waste on estates? Who wants to deal with other folks digging after similar fortunes? Not a prospector! I wanted a card that played around in that Library area of skipping things it couldn't use. Making a cheap, terminal draw that skipped itself and your worst starting card seemed like a nice fit. Sure, terminal draw 2s tend to be weak, but it has some uses. And it's too nice the way it is to muddy it with superfluous extras. (Though I did consider an on-gain effect that allowed you to gain a different $2 cost card. Because gaining estates is fun, ya?)
I dont get this. Skipping Estates is nice but skipping Prospectors sucks and the average deck that uses Prospectors in an average Kingdom has slightly more Prospectors and other non-junk $2s than Estates.
So this is a bit worse than +2 Cards.
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
Who has time to waste on estates? Who wants to deal with other folks digging after similar fortunes? Not a prospector! I wanted a card that played around in that Library area of skipping things it couldn't use. Making a cheap, terminal draw that skipped itself and your worst starting card seemed like a nice fit. Sure, terminal draw 2s tend to be weak, but it has some uses. And it's too nice the way it is to muddy it with superfluous extras. (Though I did consider an on-gain effect that allowed you to gain a different $2 cost card. Because gaining estates is fun, ya?)
I dont get this. Skipping Estates is nice but skipping Prospectors sucks and the average deck that uses Prospectors in an average Kingdom has slightly more Prospectors and other non-junk $2s than Estates.
So this is a bit worse than +2 Cards.
I disagree. Skipping Estates is a big boon, but skipping other $2s can be fine if your deck has the right big things to hunt down, or if you just need less terminal collision. I definitely think it's not just worse than +2 Cards.
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This matters mainly because Prospector costs 2. A draw engine in which only the village and not the terminal can draw into further terminals does not run very well.
I suggest something like skipping Green. It might be too good and push the card into Oracle territory but the current version is too weak.
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
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This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
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This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).
The infinite coffers wouldn't be relevant, because you'd never be able to finish resolving the card. If the only card in your deck/draw pile costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) and you play this, you're just stuck discarding forever (until someone starves to death).
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#52 - Prospector
Prospector - $2
Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $2, discard it. Otherwise, draw it. Repeat until you've drawn 2 cards.
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This should set aside and then discard at the end - this makes it so that infinite loops can't happen (especially with a cost-reduced Patron, which would give you infinite coffers).
Good point. I'll rework it to avoid that. Thanks.
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#53 - Chateau
Chateau - $5
Action
+2 Actions
Trash a card from your hand. Reveal cards from your deck until revealing one that costs more than the trashed card. Put that card in your hand and discard the rest.
Wanna live ritzy? Ya gotta work your way up. This idea started out as a Hunting Party variant that trashed. I turned it into a Village because drawing, then trashing, then hunting felt too busy. I know a lot of trashers work that way, but something like Apprentice or Recruiter just gives you a bulk payout rather than another specific task. Anyway, it's probably not a big deal, but I landed on actions and didn't really feel like changing it. I wanted it to cost $5 as an extra deterent to buy it early, since seems like a potentially rough opener, but I could be talked down to $4 if people felt it was too weak. Considering it's non-terminal trashing on a Village, I think it's probably good at $5.
Thanks to everyone leaving helpful comments. Between not designing Dominion much recently and have designed Magic for decades, I have a lot of habits that don't translate well, and your input really helps.
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Looks good. Comparing it to Hideout, this is just slightly stronger, but $5 cost is probably fine IMO.
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Looks similar in strength to Junk Dealer. Village is slightly worse than Peddler, trashing before drawing is slightly worse, digging for something more expensive is better than drawing.
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#53 - Chateau
Chateau - $5
Action
+2 Actions
Trash a card from your hand. Reveal cards from your deck until revealing one that costs more in $ than the trashed card. Put that card in your hand and discard the rest.
Wanna live ritzy? Ya gotta work your way up. This idea started out as a Hunting Party variant that trashed. I turned it into a Village because drawing, then trashing, then hunting felt too busy. I know a lot of trashers work that way, but something like Apprentice or Recruiter just gives you a bulk payout rather than another specific task. Anyway, it's probably not a big deal, but I landed on actions and didn't really feel like changing it. I wanted it to cost $5 as an extra deterent to buy it early, since seems like a potentially rough opener, but I could be talked down to $4 if people felt it was too weak. Considering it's non-terminal trashing on a Village, I think it's probably good at $5.
Thanks to everyone leaving helpful comments. Between not designing Dominion much recently and have designed Magic for decades, I have a lot of habits that don't translate well, and your input really helps.
I don't see what having "in $" gets you. That seems like a needless complication.
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I don't see what having "in $" gets you. That seems like a needless complication.
I viewed it as a clarification to make things like debt less confusing, but I guess my wording does mean that trashing a Silver won't allow you to get an Alchemist. I guess the rules already handle this well enough, so I can probably just remove that bit.
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#54 - Dreams
Dreams are a new landscape card. You can choose one to use much like you would a Project, Way, Event, etc. They all have abilities that trigger during each player's Night phase, rewarding that player for accomplishing some goal during their turn.
Dream of Flying
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have 3 or more cards in hand: Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, put it into your hand.
Dream of Being Lost
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have any unused actions: You may put an Action card from your discard pile on top of your deck.
Dream of Wealth
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have any unused buys: +1 Coffers.
Dream of Death's Ferryman
Dream
At the end of your Night phase, if you have 2 or more Silvers in play: You may gain a Silver.
I was mulling around with the idea of cards that want you to achieve some mini-goal within the game. I like how the different landscape cards make you care about deck construction in different ways. I went for the simplest idea: just reward players for doing something specific. They wanted to work as close to the end of turn as possible, but not necessarily mess with clean-up. Thankfully, we have this neat Night phase that's been around for a few years. That's where the idea originated for theming these cards as Dreams: what you do during the day impacts how you dream at night. They aren't the most innovative ideas, but I like the overall feel of them. I'd say they're closest to Landmarks, just without the VP focus. (Another reason I avoided making VP related Dreams.) I went for well-established recurring dreams and tried to make something sensible out of each. If people like them, I might try making the whole deck.
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Dreams are a very cool idea.
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Are dreams like Ways in that you can always use them? Or are they like Projects, where you have to buy them once in order to use them?
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Yeah it's unclear when you actually choose a Dream... is it something you can just do at any time during your Night phase, but only one per Night phase?
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I think they're very clearly things that you don't have to buy. You can use them once at the time they trigger. When they trigger is super clear on each one. This all seems pretty obvious.
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Dreams are a very cool idea.
Thanks! I think so too!
Are dreams like Ways in that you can always use them? Or are they like Projects, where you have to buy them once in order to use them?
They aren't purchasable. Rather, they trigger during your night phase if you've accomplished the task they required of you. I might change them all to trigger at the end of your night phase rather than hopping around, and I might make them all optional since remembering things not in your deck can be a headache at times. They're closest to Landscapes in that you choose a Dream to play with and they trigger for every player on a turn where the appropriate task was completed.
Yeah it's unclear when you actually choose a Dream... is it something you can just do at any time during your Night phase, but only one per Night phase?
You choose a Dream at the beginning of the game, like Events, Ways, etc. You get to use the dream during your night phase (triggering at the time dictated on the card) if you've accomplished the appropriate task.
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You choose a Dream at the beginning of the game, like Events, Ways, etc. You get to use the dream during your night phase (triggering at the time dictated on the card) if you've accomplished the appropriate task.
Ah I see. Then you just need to include clarifying rules about how that process works (turn order, etc).
*Edit* Oh wait! I still wasn't understanding it before but I think I am now. When you said "you choose a Dream", I thought of that like "each player chooses a Dream". But no, you just mean that a Dream might be included in the game just like any other Landscape might be included in the game.
The problem with the wording was that the phrase "choose to use a Way" has 2 different meanings... it could mean choosing a Way to include in your game while setting up; or it could mean choosing to play an action card with a Way instead of playing it normally. I misunderstood it to mean you were using the second definition, when it now seems clear that you meant the first.
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Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.
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Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.
I strongly agree with this.
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Oh wait! I still wasn't understanding it before but I think I am now. When you said "you choose a Dream", I thought of that like "each player chooses a Dream". But no, you just mean that a Dream might be included in the game just like any other Landscape might be included in the game.
Exactly, that's what I was trying to say... sloppily.
The problem with the wording was that the phrase "choose to use a Way" has 2 different meanings... it could mean choosing a Way to include in your game while setting up; or it could mean choosing to play an action card with a Way instead of playing it normally. I misunderstood it to mean you were using the second definition, when it now seems clear that you meant the first.
Ya, looking back, Way was the wrong example, considering the way they work. ;)
Now that they all trigger at the end of Night phase, it seems like it would be more natural to just have them trigger at the start of cleanup phase instead. This is worse for the theme of them being Dreams; but mechanically it's much simpler; especially since Night phase normally only exists in games with Night cards.
I strongly agree with this.
Do I have to? :'(
When I was looking back to clarify how they work, I realized that they didn't need to switch between beginning of the Night phase and the end. Only one of them wanted to work at the end, but they easily all could. Moving the triggered event to the clean-up phase makes sense, but I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't want to. It loses all of its thematic appeal. Ideally, these would be in an expansion with Night cards. And triggering at the end of your night phase gives a clear separation between the buying of cards and the discarding of cards.
Please don't make me move it; the whole theme falls apart!
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I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.
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I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.
I don't think this is necessary. You can just say that you have a Night phase whenever a Dream is out.
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I would suggest a possible setup rule that only allows them to be included in a game with at least 1 Night card. This works thematically, and plays fine if it is part of a fan expansion that includes Night cards.
I don't think this is necessary. You can just say that you have a Night phase whenever a Dream is out.
Having such a rule would work, but it also makes it a bit weirder for the effects to happen during Night Phase instead of cleanup then. Requiring a Night card helps hold the concept and theme together; it's no longer just randomly a Night Phase thing, but something designed to work along side Night cards. Also he could have Dreams that reference Night cards specifically.
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#55 - Deed
Deed - $3
Treasure - Victory
$1
1 VP
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Rather than pay this card's cost, you may buy it by trashing a Copper and an Estate from your hand.
Property rights are a big deal, especially in old timey kingdoms. I've done cards like this before. I like the idea of alternative costs in general, but there's not a lot of ways I've found to do them in Dominion. A lot of what you want can be accomplished through cost reduction. This could, too, but I feels simple enough and thematic enough to work the way I've written. Not the most exciting card, but worth trying out.
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This does not work due to playtesting experience with Hovel:
Hovel is the only one that changed. Originally it was an action you could trash by discarding your hand. It turned out that trashing it turn 1-2 usually seemed like the correct play, even if you drew it with four Coppers. So that was no good.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4318.0
Also, even without this playtesting experience Bonfire would be a good benchmark for how good trashing 2 Estates in the opening would be.
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This does not work due to playtesting experience with Hovel:
Hovel is the only one that changed. Originally it was an action you could trash by discarding your hand. It turned out that trashing it turn 1-2 usually seemed like the correct play, even if you drew it with four Coppers. So that was no good.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4318.0
Also, even without this playtesting experience Bonfire would be a good benchmark for how good trashing 2 Estates in the opening would be.
I just read the secret history of Dark Ages yesterday. Forget to heed that lesson. I wanted to talk about how this is different and as a kingdom card it has more versatility, but I think overall the problem is pretty much the same. Which leads me to this idea instead:
Deed - $3
Treasure - Victory
$1
1 VP
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While buying this, you may discard 1 Estate. If you do, this costs $2 less.
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Half Harems have very limited usefulness. As you rarely want Coppers, you nearly always only this when you want an Estate. The cost reduction is a neat idea, although it does of course not prevent you from trashing Estates (unless it is a Shepherd Kingdom).
But yeah, it can become quite a thing in Garden or Silk Road games.
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#56 - Crossroads Demon
Crossroads Demon - $5
Night
Choose one: Trash a treasure you have in play, gaining one costing up to $3 more than it; or trash a Copper, a Silver, and a Gold you have in play, and if you do, take an extra turn after this one.
You spend your life bargaining for fame and fortune, but when collection time comes, you'd give it all up for just one more day. I've avoided making extra turn mechanics in the past because they're awkward in this game. You don't really want to provide the opportunity to multi-Time Walk, but you don't want to make another awkward Outpost. I started with the trashing a Copper, Silver, and Gold idea because it felt difficult to accomplish, and very difficult to do multiple times. I made it a Night card so you'd get to at least use the treasures. At that point, though, the card still didn't do anything unless you had already assembled all the treasures you needed. That's where the Mine poprtion came in; it also helped that mining after spending the treasures was a neat effect that didn't require me to do the whole "to hand" hack. I like the card. There's probably some crazy way to abuse it, but I think the general case is well controlled.
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It might be too easy to use every single turn... with any type of deck that allows to gain a Copper, Silver, and Gold without buying them; you can keep taking turns until the supply runs out of one of them. Though you'll most likely have won before that happens. Maybe if it just had the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" clause?
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It might be too easy to use every single turn... with any type of deck that allows to gain a Copper, Silver, and Gold without buying them; you can keep taking turns until the supply runs out of one of them. Though you'll most likely have won before that happens. Maybe if it just had the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" clause?
Also, should it be a Duration? At least, Outpost is and stays in play during the extra turn it grants.
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It might be too easy to use every single turn... with any type of deck that allows to gain a Copper, Silver, and Gold without buying them; you can keep taking turns until the supply runs out of one of them. Though you'll most likely have won before that happens. Maybe if it just had the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" clause?
Also, should it be a Duration? At least, Outpost is and stays in play during the extra turn it grants.
As I understand it, Outpost isn't a duration because it grants an extra turn; it is a duration because it affects the cleanup step of the current turn by having you draw only 3 cards.
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It might be too easy to use every single turn... with any type of deck that allows to gain a Copper, Silver, and Gold without buying them; you can keep taking turns until the supply runs out of one of them. Though you'll most likely have won before that happens. Maybe if it just had the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" clause?
One of my goals was to make an extra turn taker that didn't require that clause. It might just be that such a thing shouldn't exist in Dominion. But my guess is that using this even twice in a row will be difficult in most kingdoms.
Also, should it be a Duration? At least, Outpost is and stays in play during the extra turn it grants.
My understanding is that there's no need to keep the card around. Everything it effects happens the turn your play it. As GendoIkari pointed out, Outpost needs to stay in play all the way through your clean-up to effect your hand size. And it probably sticks around as an extra reminder for you additional turn, in case you find another Outpost to play.
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It might be too easy to use every single turn... with any type of deck that allows to gain a Copper, Silver, and Gold without buying them; you can keep taking turns until the supply runs out of one of them. Though you'll most likely have won before that happens. Maybe if it just had the "if the previous turn wasn't yours" clause?
One of my goals was to make an extra turn taker that didn't require that clause. It might just be that such a thing shouldn't exist in Dominion. But my guess is that using this even twice in a row will be difficult in most kingdoms.
You might be right; and it could be that any deck where you can guarantee to both draw your deck and gain a Copper, Silver, and a Gold mid-turn, is already close enough to being able to win shortly that it doesn't matter if your ultimate method of winning is to take 8 turns in a row where you buy a Province on each of those turns.
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The problem of a lack of clause is that a player who can consistently trigger this plays alone once he does. I dont think that this is fun or any good.
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The problem of a lack of clause is that a player who can consistently trigger this plays alone once he does. I dont think that this is fun or any good.
I agree that result is unwanted. If the card proved to do that, I'd probably kill it altogether. If it did it once in a blue moon, I might be fine with it. This game already does ridiculous things (emptying the Provinces on turn one shouldn't be possible, yet it is), so my goal here is for 1 extra turn to be the 97% case, 2 extra turns to be the 2% case, and anything more less than 1%.
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What about restricting further Gold gaining (if that is a problem) by having a clause for the Extra turn(s), e.g.
During your Extra turn, when you (would) gain a Gold, gain an Action card instead.
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The problem of a lack of clause is that a player who can consistently trigger this plays alone once he does. I dont think that this is fun or any good.
I agree that result is unwanted. If the card proved to do that, I'd probably kill it altogether. If it did it once in a blue moon, I might be fine with it. This game already does ridiculous things (emptying the Provinces on turn one shouldn't be possible, yet it is), so my goal here is for 1 extra turn to be the 97% case, 2 extra turns to be the 2% case, and anything more less than 1%.
Well, you need a Silver gainer and and some thing like Treasure Trove so you are totally right, it is tricky to consistently use this. But if you can, the game becomes a solo game and that simply sucks.
There is a reason no official card creates a path towards quasi player elimination. That is not a feature that Dominion, or any decent modern boardgame in general, wants to have.