Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: DooWopDJ on February 21, 2019, 09:39:08 am

Title: Debt clarification
Post by: DooWopDJ on February 21, 2019, 09:39:08 am
A question about the Debt FAQ.

If you have 'debt' you cannot 'buy' another card that has only debt in its cost (thus going into more debt).  So the question is maybe semantics, do you buy a debt card if you are not paying $?  Is it possible to make this more clear in the FAQ?
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: ipofanes on February 21, 2019, 09:52:04 am
Don't know about "debt FAQ" but the following is in the Wiki article on debt under "official rules".

Quote
Having Debt tokens prevents a player from buying cards or Events; Debt tokens do nothing else (for example they have no effect at the end of the game).

You cannot buy while in debt, no matter what it costs, not even Coppers or Alms. It never occurred to me that this needs clarification to cards with any specific costs.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: GendoIkari on February 21, 2019, 10:11:15 am
"Buy" in dominion does not mean "spend money on". If "buying" required money, then nothing would stop you from just gaining every single Copper on your first turn.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: crj on February 21, 2019, 10:14:35 am
To quote the Empires rulebook, "having Debt tokens prevents a player from buying cards or Events". That's completely explicit.

Do you have debt? Yes? You can't buy. Anything.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: GendoIkari on February 21, 2019, 10:18:10 am
To quote the Empires rulebook, "having Debt tokens prevents a player from buying cards or Events". That's completely explicit.

Do you have debt? Yes? You can't buy. Anything.

I don't think that actually answers his question. His question was if it counted as buying when you get a card with only debt in the cost. If it didn't, theoretically, then the rule that stops you from buying a card wouldn't come into play.

I think the best rule here is from the base game rulebook (second edition): "As Copper costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png), you could use a Buy with no to buy a Copper." So clearly, buying a copper still counts as buying.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: DooWopDJ on February 21, 2019, 10:27:48 am
I think the basic idea is that a 'buy is a buy'.  So you are 'buying' a debt card.  You are not allowed to 'buy' a card with $0 cost if you have Debt, so given this, you cannot buy card with debt either.  Although, I am still hoping this could be added to the FAQ clarification.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: LaLight on February 21, 2019, 10:32:48 am
"Buy" in dominion does not mean "spend money on". If "buying" required money, then nothing would stop you from just gaining every single Copper on your first turn.

1) Why would you ever do that?
2) I’ve done exactly that in my first game of Dominion.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: crj on February 21, 2019, 10:37:30 am
I don't think that actually answers his question.
Oh. Um. That never even occurred to me as a possible question.

If you're not buying the card in that circumstance, by what rule are you gaining it? You obviously can't just gain cards whenever you feel like it!
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: GendoIkari on February 21, 2019, 10:40:30 am
"Buy" in dominion does not mean "spend money on". If "buying" required money, then nothing would stop you from just gaining every single Copper on your first turn.

1) Why would you ever do that?
2) I’ve done exactly that in my first game of Dominion.

I think it would be a winning move sometimes. Maybe if Gardens or Duke is in the Kingdom.  Good with Fountain (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Fountain), Bandit Fort (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Bandit_Fort), Keep (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Keep), and crazy good with Tower (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Tower). I think Tower by itself is enough to make it a winning play.
Title: Re: Debt clarification
Post by: Jeebus on February 22, 2019, 02:04:19 pm
There is not need the clarify that buying a card (or Event) that doesn't cost any $ counts as buying, since the rules already say that you do indeed buy these. In the Empires rulebook it's clear that these cards work like all other cards, you buy them using a Buy. The Alchemy rulebook says the same about Vineyard, and indeed, the Dominion rulebook says the same about Copper and Curse.