Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: LaLight on October 03, 2018, 04:12:51 am
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Welcome to M119: Towny Mafia
Try to survive in this corrupted town...
This game will use Rusty Guillotine (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Rusty_Guillotine_Mafia), a setup for 14 players, and is classified as normal. It is an open setup.
Players:
1. pingpongsam
2. 2.71828.....
3. Dylan32
4. DatSwan
5. Joseph2302
6. infangthief
7. faust
8. SpaceAnemone
9. Awaclus
10. WestCoastDidds
11. EFHW
12. mcmcsalot
13. Robz888
14. chairs
Tags:
The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6.Players can not no lynch or no kill. Lynches are majority or plurality at deadline, coin toss being tie-breaker. The most recent kill submitted by any mafia member will be counted, with a random mafia member submitting a random kill if no kill is sent in (this will supersede actions taken by mafia PRs).
The Rest:
1. Bold, purple 'AA00AA' text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.
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Setup:
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop (instead of killing, can learn role name of one player)
1 Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker (can roleblock instead of killing, roleblock applies to day abilities the following day as well as that night, a roleblocked Redeemed Soul is not confirmed as town)
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Redeemed Soul (mod-confirmed as town the morning after they are placed on guillotine)
1 One-Shot Impatient Vigilante (one use ability, daytime only, kills the player on guillotine and lowers the lynch threshold by 1)
8 Vts
Special Lynch Mechanic
When a majority is reached on someone (or a plurality at deadline), the mod will announce such and the day will end. However, instead of being lynched, that player is on guillotine. An on guillotine player cannot be nightkilled or take any actions (though the Redeemed Soul's ability will still trigger). They still can vote the next day, and they are counted for determining the to-lynch threshold. The on-guillotine player is killed when a new player is put on guillotine the next day, at which point their alignment is revealed as normal.
Note:
You cannot no-lynch or no-kill. Lynches are majority or plurality at deadline, coin toss being tie-breaker. The most recent kill submitted by any mafia member will be counted, with a random mafia member submitting a random kill if no kill is sent in (this will supersede actions taken by mafia PRs).
Impatient Vig is silent and needs to post their shot secretly in QT. Nothing stops them from claiming though.
Impatient Vig is always making the lynch threshold 1 lower so if they kill a town on guillotine who was not on L-1 wagon, that would be the hammer.
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Flavor:
This town is corrupted. Sheriff is long dead and everything, counting infrastructure and cat shelters are ruled by Mafia. Money is laundried, innocents are killed, law has forgotten about this place. This is when some people changed their mind and decided to bring some order into the town...
Scum in this game is known as Town Aligned.
Town is known as Scum Aligned.
Flavor names of VTs are Mafia Goon, flavor names of PRs are distributed by the principle of random classic Town or Scum PR. As an example that will NOT be in a game, on of scum prs may have a flavor name of "Town Doctor".
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/in
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/in
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/in if this starts after this saturday. I'm back baby!
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/in
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did you make this? if so props to LL - sounds crazy fun.
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/in
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did you make this? if so props to LL - sounds crazy fun.
The setup itself no, there's a link in the very beginning of the first post to Wiki.MafiaScum, there's an author listed
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/in
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/in but I will be VLA for like the first week.
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/in
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/in! Though I'll be VLA next weekend, in case that's relevant.
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/in
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It’s okay if I’m /in? Or no?
/in
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/out
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Bump?
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/in
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I'd like to join, but unavailable until 26th Oct.
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/in
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Setup looks awesome /in
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Setup looks awesome /in
I'd like to Pre-vote: mcmc. Shouldn't have lynched me last game
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/in
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Setup looks awesome /in
I'd like to Pre-vote: mcmc. Shouldn't have lynched me last game
scummy pre-vote, so pre-vote: Joseph
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Silverspawn's pre-game has clearly been the scummiest so far. Vote: silverspawn
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/out
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Bump bump bumpity bump I’m going through withdrawals, someone please hammer.
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Bump bump bumpity bump I’m going through withdrawals, someone please hammer.
Since hypercube is out, there are actually 2 spots left. On the other hand, infangthief should be available in 2 days time.
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/in
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Where is ash when you need him?
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If we can wait to start until Monday..
/in
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*insert just send me my pm cat meme*
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Right, thread locked, pms at some point during today.
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PMs are out, N0 starts now and ends as soon as everyone confirms, but not sooner than in 24 hours
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Mafiaberg was a quiet little town, with a recently changed name (prev. Townsberg). Everyone was living peacefully. Everyone still remembered the events of a year ago, when people suddenly turned angry at themselves and started beheading other people.
Good thing the members of Mafia Family lived after that events, taking the majority of all living citizens.
You will say, what happened to those, who was "ENDGAMED"?
Well, mafia is not cruel by nature, so they just put those guys in prison, invited their friends and families and built another community around the city. Only the huge, rusty guillotine, covered in blood stood there on the hill reminding everyone what happens if you kill more than half of the population.
Escaped prisoners meddled in the community and decided to take their revenge. This was a stupid plan, because Mafia knew their faces and immediately caught them... Oh, right! This is a parallel universe where everyone looks the same, so it's not an easy thing to catch escaped guys. Now this story makes sense. Carry on.
Day 1 starts now!
Vote count 1.0
Not voting (14): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, faust, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, chairs
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
Thread unlocked!
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Hi everyone.
This setup is actually fairly straightforward in terms of roles. I don't think there anything to be gained by claiming stuff. We want to leave more time than usual for claims at L-1 since there can be no fakeclaims. So anyone who hammers someone without letting them claim should always immediately be the next one up for lynching.
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Love the flavor, agree with faust’s analysis of the setup.
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I was initially hesitant about this setup as it poses some interesting wrinkles to my typical play style. After further consideration, though, I believe this is going to be pretty fun regardless of outcome. Strongly agree with not claiming outside of pressure situations.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
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Hi everyone!
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
Yep, they make it so that D2 is essentially D1 again! And D1 is the best day anyway, so that's good.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
Yep, they make it so that D2 is essentially D1 again! And D1 is the best day anyway, so that's good.
It also offsets the weight of a L-1 claim and really any claim at any point by anyone.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
Yep, they make it so that D2 is essentially D1 again! And D1 is the best day anyway, so that's good.
It also offsets the weight of a L-1 claim and really any claim at any point by anyone.
What do you mean by this? I don’t se how the delayed lynch changes claiming, it’s not like you can unlynch people.
The only thing the delayed lynch does is affect next day voting by allowing the lynched player to still vote and count towards the total.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
Yep, they make it so that D2 is essentially D1 again! And D1 is the best day anyway, so that's good.
It also offsets the weight of a L-1 claim and really any claim at any point by anyone.
What do you mean by this? I don’t se how the delayed lynch changes claiming, it’s not like you can unlynch people.
The only thing the delayed lynch does is affect next day voting by allowing the lynched player to still vote and count towards the total.
Being able to entertain questions and place emphasis on certain arguments surrounding the claim the next day (along with having a vote) is a tremendous difference from the usual twilight or not banter.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
Yep, they make it so that D2 is essentially D1 again! And D1 is the best day anyway, so that's good.
It also offsets the weight of a L-1 claim and really any claim at any point by anyone.
What do you mean by this? I don’t se how the delayed lynch changes claiming, it’s not like you can unlynch people.
The only thing the delayed lynch does is affect next day voting by allowing the lynched player to still vote and count towards the total.
Being able to entertain questions and place emphasis on certain arguments surrounding the claim the next day (along with having a vote) is a tremendous difference from the usual twilight or not banter.
Of course, I meant to say that we really shouldn’t be treating an “on guilotine” player as lynched at all. I still don’t get what you mean by “it offsets the weight of an L-1 claim”. For claim purposes we should treat it exactly the same way we would in a normal game and then for the next day we still have to have that person around and if we didn’t believe the claim at the time then we should just be treating the person as assumed scum the next day. I mean there is a little nuance as we get in to night kills post lynch/pre-death but I’m still not understanding what point you are trying to make.
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
Aaand I feel weird already, agreeing with Awaclus for my first post.
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Also apparently “if we can wait to start until Monday” was ignored so...
Basically class until then, my daughter is over.
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Vla even
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
I meant the wrinkles to your playstyle that you mentioned. The question was about your comment on your playstyle, not the setup.
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Hey all - set up looks fun. I don’t think the delayed lynch should change play to much. Skum will know if town is on the block or not and town will not know until the next day.
Anyways - I’ll be light of content until Monday evening. Meet this weekend.
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The delayed flip does look like it makes things harder - like faust says day 2 will be like day 1 in terms of concrete information. I mean someone will have been night killed, which is not zero information, but probably not all that helpful.
Then I guess the main effect of the impatient vigilante is they can reverse that delay and make things back to normal where you know the flip, but they can only do that one day.
So overall, I don't know, but seems favoured towards scum there.
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Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?
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I'm the SK
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Oh, and, er, hello everyone!
I've not played with most of you before. Because I've only played one game.
See if things go a bit better this time around. At least with this set-up I'm guaranteed to be alive at the end of day 1.
I'm 'he', I'm in UK, 4 hours ahead of forum time.
PPE: 1
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Hey all - set up looks fun. I don’t think the delayed lynch should change play to much. Skum will know if town is on the block or not and town will not know until the next day.
Which gives scum more information than town. Which might change the balance somewhat
PPE: 1
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Also Vote: mcmc for lynching me last game
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
There's a certain point later in the game where they could become an IC though
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I'm the SK
Interesting. I'm not.
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
There's a certain point later in the game where they could become an IC though
Because the town win condition is to have 2 mafia dead + 1 on the guillotine.
So if we have 2 mafia dead, if we guillotine someone and the game doesn't end, then they must be town
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
There's a certain point later in the game where they could become an IC though
Which is why we're treating them as an "on guillotine" player.
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I'm 'he', I'm in UK, 4 hours ahead of forum time.
Wait, which UK are you in? I'm in the one that's 5 hours ahead of forum time, at least for today...
I use they/them as a pronoun by preference :-)
Nice to meet you!
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As for setup, it's cool, except that I typically suck at D1 because it's poor in the types of evidence I like reasoning with, and this game's info-gathering mechanics keep us in the dark for longer.
I'm also currently kind of VLA until Wednesday, though I'll be online easily enough in the evenings I think, which is not so different to when I'm home and at work all day...
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Also, vote: Joseph because the SK joke was never all that funny to begin with.
Why is nobody else voting yet? I'm all for pulling ourselves out of RVS and into rational discussion quickly, but OTOH, it's nice to have early voting patterns to analyse in the late game.
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
I meant the wrinkles to your playstyle that you mentioned. The question was about your comment on your playstyle, not the setup.
I'm all about claiming for effect. Also, I'm strongly inclined to use flips to reassess my reads. Having them delayed a full day into the game seems a handicap for me.
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Also, vote: Joseph because the SK joke was never all that funny to begin with.
Why is nobody else voting yet? I'm all for pulling ourselves out of RVS and into rational discussion quickly, but OTOH, it's nice to have early voting patterns to analyse in the late game.
RVS is so passe.
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Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?
Because I'm alive on D1!
But seriously, that's not all. D1 is your purest form of social deduction. You have to figure out who's scum just by tone and without no concrete info. It's a special kind of challenge and it is just super satisfying to nail down a scum on the first Day.
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A note should be made on claims and this mechanic: Fakeclaims become viable earlier. Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other. Here you lynch one, next Day you don't know whether they are scum. So either you need to wait an additional Day (which is problematic if you enter MyLo that way), or you lynch both for a guaranteeed 1-1 trade.
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Also vote: DatSwan
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
What makes you ask that?
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
What makes you ask that?
What is the scum win condition?
Usually it's to control 50% of the town, but does that include or exclude people on the guillotine?
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I haven't thought about it much, there may be a logical answer, but I figured it was easier to ask for the sample PMs like what LL sent to the town & scum teams
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
In the first post there is a link to the setup that has all the samples. The only thing changed is i added the flavor names into them all.
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I'm 'he', I'm in UK, 4 hours ahead of forum time.
Wait, which UK are you in? I'm in the one that's 5 hours ahead of forum time, at least for today...
I use they/them as a pronoun by preference :-)
Nice to meet you!
Sounds like we're in the same one. My UK is 5 hours ahead at the moment, but 4 hours ahead from tomorrow (Sunday) onwards. Seemed simplest to just say that.
Though an alternative UK sounds nice. I'd consider emigrating.
Nice to meet you too.
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Also, vote: Joseph because the SK joke was never all that funny to begin with.
Why is nobody else voting yet? I'm all for pulling ourselves out of RVS and into rational discussion quickly, but OTOH, it's nice to have early voting patterns to analyse in the late game.
Hmm, if not-funny jokes are scummy then I may be in trouble...
Yeh, this game got into lots of set-up discussion without any random votes. Seems like faust set the bar quite high in his opening post. Vote: faust
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
In the first post there is a link to the setup that has all the samples. The only thing changed is i added the flavor names into them all.
I followed that link a couple of weeks ago, but there was something I still wasn't clear about.
- town win condition is to have 2 scum dead and 1 scum on guillotine.
- scum win condition is to have at least as many scum alive as town (and on guillotine counts as alive).
So what happens if there are 3 players remaining: 1 scum who is not voting, 1 vig who is voting for the scum player, 1 VT on guillotine.
Now if the vig shoots, then the scum player immediately goes on the guillotine and both win conditions are met simultaneously. What happens?
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Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?
Because I'm alive on D1!
But seriously, that's not all. D1 is your purest form of social deduction. You have to figure out who's scum just by tone and without no concrete info. It's a special kind of challenge and it is just super satisfying to nail down a scum on the first Day.
I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.
You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?
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What are the interesting wrinkles?
The delayed lynch kills, of course.
I meant the wrinkles to your playstyle that you mentioned. The question was about your comment on your playstyle, not the setup.
I'm all about claiming for effect. Also, I'm strongly inclined to use flips to reassess my reads. Having them delayed a full day into the game seems a handicap for me.
Hi Pingpongsam (do you play table tennis?),
I get how relying on flips is harder in this set-up.
How does claiming for effect work?
Also, anyone else want to give a brief summary of their playstyle. Helpful for one or two of us who are new here (on which note, hi WCD - why haven't you said anything yet?!)
For me, I'm obviously still discovering my playstyle, but I seem to do a lot of direct questioning. I'd prefer to be able to facilitate multi-player discussions, but that seems harder.
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Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?
Because I'm alive on D1!
But seriously, that's not all. D1 is your purest form of social deduction. You have to figure out who's scum just by tone and without no concrete info. It's a special kind of challenge and it is just super satisfying to nail down a scum on the first Day.
I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.
You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?
So you suggest the town should do scum's work for them...?
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Anyway, infang, what do you make of Joseph so far?
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A note should be made on claims and this mechanic: Fakeclaims become viable earlier.
Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
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Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
thanks
so the scum win condition is "You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
So on guillotine counts as alive for town, but effectively as dead for scum (if there's only 1 left)
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Wait ignore this, I figure it out.
If the last scum is on the guillotine, then no scum can NK and the next person to die will be that scum anyway. Which is why it all makes sense :)
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A note should be made on claims and this mechanic: Fakeclaims become viable earlier.
Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Because I'll be dead later and I've learned that I cannot rely on other people to point out such things.
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Sounds like we're in the same one. My UK is 5 hours ahead at the moment, but 4 hours ahead from tomorrow (Sunday) onwards. Seemed simplest to just say that.
It doesn't stay at a 4-hour gap for long before forum time changes its clocks to match, though. Possibly 1 calendar week?
I do think it helps to have timezones be considered when thinking about people's play around deadlines. Sometimes I worry about being scumread based on not being active at the deadline if I'm the only player in an EU timezone and it's night for us. We've got faust (Germany) and Awaclus (Finland) here, plus Joseph as another brit, so we're not badly off for now. And of course our mod is in Russia, but as far as I can tell, he needs virtually no sleep and is all-seeing at almost any time of day :-P
Though an alternative UK sounds nice. I'd consider emigrating.
I love my nice little over-educated left-wing bubbles of this UK. Can we detach a few of them and remain in the EU? :-)
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I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.
You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?
This is just a super bad idea. We should lynch faust iff we think he's scum.
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Hi again!
Slightly busy weekend with a 10k race I just finished this morning, I will be able to comment on stuff and things probably later today or tomorrow
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Hi everyone!
Sorry for getting here late....life and stuff. But definitely not a 10k race of any sort. Anyway, like most, I’ll be more regularly present after the weekend.
Hi, Thief! It’s so good to see you again. I’m glad you’re playing! Like Thief, I’m newish (3 games). I think I’ve played with about half of you now. Unlike Thief, I’m in Texas and a she. And my jokes are always pretty bad.
Yeah, the US goes back to Standard time next weekend, so the 4 hour difference would be short lived. But the alterna UK that stays in the EU sounds like a smashing idea.
I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
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I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
Why would me thinking that that's a good idea change your mind?
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Oh, this game started! I am VLA this weekend, attending a wedding.
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I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
Why would me thinking that that's a good idea change your mind?
Well, if you are certain enough that you will be killed on the first night that you’d volunteer to be lynched on day one to be around for day two, I’d defer to your judgement. But doing it to you, without your consent, for the explicit purpose of making sure you’d be around day 2 rubs me the wrong way.
The idea seems to hinge on the degree of certainty that you’d be killed in the first night, and you’d know far better than me the likelihood of that happening.
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I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
Why would me thinking that that's a good idea change your mind?
Well, if you are certain enough that you will be killed on the first night that you’d volunteer to be lynched on day one to be around for day two, I’d defer to your judgement. But doing it to you, without your consent, for the explicit purpose of making sure you’d be around day 2 rubs me the wrong way.
The idea seems to hinge on the degree of certainty that you’d be killed in the first night, and you’d know far better than me the likelihood of that happening.
The more sure we are that scum kills me N1, the worse it is to lynch me today - not the other way around.
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I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
Why would me thinking that that's a good idea change your mind?
Well, if you are certain enough that you will be killed on the first night that you’d volunteer to be lynched on day one to be around for day two, I’d defer to your judgement. But doing it to you, without your consent, for the explicit purpose of making sure you’d be around day 2 rubs me the wrong way.
The idea seems to hinge on the degree of certainty that you’d be killed in the first night, and you’d know far better than me the likelihood of that happening.
The more sure we are that scum kills me N1, the worse it is to lynch me today - not the other way around.
Not being deliberately dense, I swear...can you explain that for me?
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I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
Why would me thinking that that's a good idea change your mind?
Well, if you are certain enough that you will be killed on the first night that you’d volunteer to be lynched on day one to be around for day two, I’d defer to your judgement. But doing it to you, without your consent, for the explicit purpose of making sure you’d be around day 2 rubs me the wrong way.
The idea seems to hinge on the degree of certainty that you’d be killed in the first night, and you’d know far better than me the likelihood of that happening.
The more sure we are that scum kills me N1, the worse it is to lynch me today - not the other way around.
Not being deliberately dense, I swear...can you explain that for me?
Ideally, we want to lynch someone who's scum. Less ideally, we'll lynch a very suspicious townie that scum doesn't want to kill. Even less ideally, we'll lynch any vanilla townie who's pretty towny. The worst case scenario is that we lynch a town PR.
The priorities for scum NK are that, but in the exact opposite order. Therefore the more scum wants to kill someone, the less we want to lynch them.
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The main problem with the plan is that scum hunting will be ruined for today.
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Oh, this game started! I am VLA this weekend, attending a wedding.
vote: Robz
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The only person I am sure is town at this point is Joseph. Anyone else who is town should know why without explanation. This talk about lynching Faust is crazy talk even for someone as crazy as me. To scummy to be scum? Maybe, who knows.
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Oh, and Space looks like town for once.
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Vote: pps
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The main problem with the plan is that scum hunting will be ruined for today.
This.
So you suggest the town should do scum's work for them...?
And this.
I'm convinced. It just seemed worth exploring the implications of the day 1 lynch living longer than the night 1 kill, and faust's reputation for being the night 1 kill seemed a good place to explore it.
I think WCD was totally justified in saying it depended whether faust was up for it or not. That matched my original mindset. But yes, changed my mind now.
We should lynch faust iff we think he's scum.
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Anyway, infang, what do you make of Joseph so far?
I've found some of his posts so far quite interesting. But nothing that I want to pursue there, for now at least. I think he's likely to be town.
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Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
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Oh, and Space looks like town for once.
And I disagree with you there.
Thanks Space for helping me with timezone considerations, so we're '4 or 5' hours ahead. But do you have any game content for us?
I know that's a bit harsh when some people have barely even posted (ooh, ppe hi Dylan!), but still, not quite sure why the absence of content related to the game makes pps think you're towny.
unvote
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Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
Hi, good to meet you.
My first day of my first game went like this:
1. I said some things.
2. Several people found me quite towny.
3. I got a bit arrogant.
4. I got a bit lynched.
Hoping that 1 and 2 happen here and 3 and 4 don't...
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Drunk AMA about to hit yall with some early game responses.
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Also Vote: mcmc for lynching me last game
Wait what game was that! it's been too long for me so I have forgotten my last mafia game. Was it a good lynch or a bad one?
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
There's a certain point later in the game where they could become an IC though
Because the town win condition is to have 2 mafia dead + 1 on the guillotine.
So if we have 2 mafia dead, if we guillotine someone and the game doesn't end, then they must be town
This is a really gfood point, town points for joseph
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A note should be made on claims and this mechanic: Fakeclaims become viable earlier. Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other. Here you lynch one, next Day you don't know whether they are scum. So either you need to wait an additional Day (which is problematic if you enter MyLo that way), or you lynch both for a guaranteeed 1-1 trade.
Also good point, per usual faust points for faust
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I'm 'he', I'm in UK, 4 hours ahead of forum time.
Wait, which UK are you in? I'm in the one that's 5 hours ahead of forum time, at least for today...
I use they/them as a pronoun by preference :-)
Nice to meet you!
Sounds like we're in the same one. My UK is 5 hours ahead at the moment, but 4 hours ahead from tomorrow (Sunday) onwards. Seemed simplest to just say that.
Though an alternative UK sounds nice. I'd consider emigrating.
Nice to meet you too.
wait are there two uk time zones or is this a daylight-savings-time oddity?
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A note should be made on claims and this mechanic: Fakeclaims become viable earlier.
Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Space being all spacey, hi space!
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Sounds like we're in the same one. My UK is 5 hours ahead at the moment, but 4 hours ahead from tomorrow (Sunday) onwards. Seemed simplest to just say that.
It doesn't stay at a 4-hour gap for long before forum time changes its clocks to match, though. Possibly 1 calendar week?
I do think it helps to have timezones be considered when thinking about people's play around deadlines. Sometimes I worry about being scumread based on not being active at the deadline if I'm the only player in an EU timezone and it's night for us. We've got faust (Germany) and Awaclus (Finland) here, plus Joseph as another brit, so we're not badly off for now. And of course our mod is in Russia, but as far as I can tell, he needs virtually no sleep and is all-seeing at almost any time of day :-P
Though an alternative UK sounds nice. I'd consider emigrating.
I love my nice little over-educated left-wing bubbles of this UK. Can we detach a few of them and remain in the EU? :-)
I am upset at how uneducated I am, no-one start stating metric computations please
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I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.
You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?
This is just a super bad idea. We should lynch faust iff we think he's scum.
agreed scum points to fang
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Hi again!
Slightly busy weekend with a 10k race I just finished this morning, I will be able to comment on stuff and things probably later today or tomorrow
ooooh look at you and your facny feet what a greeeeat accomplishment...(*stuffs more pasta into face) I used to run 10K's as a warm up!!
*but really I didn't I'm a grat captain and a terrible runner ask the robz
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Hi everyone!
Sorry for getting here late....life and stuff. But definitely not a 10k race of any sort. Anyway, like most, I’ll be more regularly present after the weekend.
Hi, Thief! It’s so good to see you again. I’m glad you’re playing! Like Thief, I’m newish (3 games). I think I’ve played with about half of you now. Unlike Thief, I’m in Texas and a she. And my jokes are always pretty bad.
Yeah, the US goes back to Standard time next weekend, so the 4 hour difference would be short lived. But the alterna UK that stays in the EU sounds like a smashing idea.
I’m 100% not down with lynching Faust to keep him around longer, unless it’s he thinks it’s a good idea.
great points and I think i'm less uneducated about the time situation then I originally thought also Hi WCD!!!
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Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
Vote: Dylan for playing the non-informative nice guy scum role who doesn't remember how to intro
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wait are there two uk time zones or is this a daylight-savings-time oddity?
I was going to respond along the lines of "lol, it's all one timezone" (after all, the british isles are oriented pretty well to minimise their coverage of different longitudes), then I remembered Gibraltar, and did some googling. Turns out we have nine different timezones (http://"https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zone/uk").
Anyway, mainland UK definitely is all in one zone, and our clocks change from BST (British Summer Time) to GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) tonight, and then for a week we're at FT+4 instead of our usual FT+5, until you guys across the pond catch up.
Also:
Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Space being all spacey, hi space!
Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P
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Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
Vote: Dylan for playing the non-informative nice guy scum role who doesn't remember how to intro
Vote: Dylan
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Oh, and Space looks like town for once.
And I disagree with you there.
Thanks Space for helping me with timezone considerations, so we're '4 or 5' hours ahead. But do you have any game content for us?
I know that's a bit harsh when some people have barely even posted (ooh, ppe hi Dylan!), but still, not quite sure why the absence of content related to the game makes pps think you're towny.
PPS was my first ever scumbuddy, and I have a feeling he has correctly scumread me one time since? He's a reads guy in exactly all the ways I'm definitely not. Usually I disagree with him and his strategies totally, but I'll give him and his read a pass this time because it seems good :-P
BTW, I have a posted VLA in effect till Wednesday, so I'm actually rather more present than I'd expected to me!
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I'm 'he', I'm in UK, 4 hours ahead of forum time.
Wait, which UK are you in? I'm in the one that's 5 hours ahead of forum time, at least for today...
I use they/them as a pronoun by preference :-)
Nice to meet you!
Sounds like we're in the same one. My UK is 5 hours ahead at the moment, but 4 hours ahead from tomorrow (Sunday) onwards. Seemed simplest to just say that.
Though an alternative UK sounds nice. I'd consider emigrating.
Nice to meet you too.
wait are there two uk time zones or is this a daylight-savings-time oddity?
Daylight savings being different in UK to US
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Time situation will become more messed up in the future as the EU moves to abolish daylight savings time. I have no idea whether the UK will follow along, and given the current state of affairs I assume noone else does either.
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Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
Hi, good to meet you.
My first day of my first game went like this:
1. I said some things.
2. Several people found me quite towny.
3. I got a bit arrogant.
4. I got a bit lynched.
Hoping that 1 and 2 happen here and 3 and 4 don't...
This is definitely the best setup to get a bit lynched.
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So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
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So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
Occam’s Razor or something. Either he is not so clever, transparent manipulative scum or he had very much the same response I did when reading my role PM that detailed the town wincon that caused me to consider A) what does scum’s look like and B) whether knowledge of town win on could be a towntell. I’m leaning toward the latter.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
Vote: faust
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The EU is abolishing daylight savings time? I had no idea!
I’d much rather stay on DST all year. I like the sun in the evenings in the summer. But y’all are further north so I guess that isn’t as important.
Dylan, I’ve played two newbie games (12 and 13)....we won one and lost another (Chairs and scum!Lalight lynched me while I was at the dentist! The horror!) and then I just played the Dirk Gently game. I was a survivor who didn’t survive. I ask a lot of questions, and suffer mire from a lack of confidence than arrogance. (Scum got Fang lynched in his first game because he was playing well).
I’m off to wine tasting day. So, like Mcmc (Hi! Good to see you!)...drunk ama daytime version is in the offing! Happy Sunday friends!
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Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
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So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
Not true. I didn't notice that they were on the other link.
Genuine mistake
But it should be obvious that I'm town since I knew the town win condition word for word but not the scum one.....
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Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
Vote: chairs
Seems like you're setting faust up to get guillotined D2
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
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Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
MO is a new one for me.
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Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
Vote: chairs
Seems like you're setting faust up to get guillotined D2
Eh, I was leaning towards D4 if he survives that long since I’d he is town he is incredibly useful (and as such I don’t expect town!faust to survive that long)
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There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.
First faust:
Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.
Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?
Now chairs:
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?
Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.
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Vote count 1.1
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (2): Awaclus, chairs
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): pingpongsam
chairs (1): Joseph2302
Not voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
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There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.
First faust:
Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.
Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?
Now chairs:
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?
Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.
Faust is an extremely capable player as both Town and Mafia. This frequently leads to him being prime night kill real estate when he is Town in any game where a different strong night kill choice does not exist.
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Vote: chairs
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Infangthief has both things correct.
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Infangthief has both things correct.
This comment from Awaclus confused me, since I read fang's post more like two questions than any definitive truth statements. I think he's right about the two things being accidental reversals of what it means, though... the fact I didn't notice just shows how much my reading of this stuff is influenced by the prior belief that certain people post sensible things :-(
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This comment from Awaclus confused me, since I read fang's post more like two questions than any definitive truth statements.
It's a combination of definitive truth statements and asking whether or not the statements are actually true. I answered the question by confirming that they were.
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
MO was short for modus operandi.
Vote: chairs
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Hi everyone.
This setup is actually fairly straightforward in terms of roles. I don't think there anything to be gained by claiming stuff. We want to leave more time than usual for claims at L-1 since there can be no fakeclaims. So anyone who hammers someone without letting them claim should always immediately be the next one up for lynching.
I agree in concept, disagree in saying that person must always be lynched the next day no matter what. extenuating circumstances exist.
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Faust, Awaclus, and mcmc are town by order of confidence.
Joseph and pps both feel scummy.
infangthief also feels like town.
And I am all caught up.
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
I especially agree with this.
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(Scum got Fang lynched in his first game because he was playing well).
Thank you for your kind words. Though I'm not sure that I can claim to have played all that well, given that most of the town wanted my lynch at the end of day 1.
Your posts have reminded me though that I have every intention of being nice in these games, but somehow, I don't know, it's like all the worst comes out of me instead. Anyone else find that?
I'll try harder to be nice. Happy Sunday!
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
MO was short for modus operandi.
Vote: chairs
Thanks, that's helpful. ooo Latin.
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Did I miss something about chairs?
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
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*their play. Sorry.
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I'm back, caught up. Didn't get a lot out of that, ingfangthief seems townie for asking town-ish questions. Joseph, too, for once.
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.
Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If Space doesn't have anything really serious, just fluff, and usually they are analytical (e.g. serious), pps's explanation would seem to match your description of their play, and would justify him reading them different than his normal gut reaction.
One question pertaining to reading space based on pps's description would be: is uninformed town or scum more likely to be mostly fluffy at this point in D1?
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Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).
Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.
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lolz, Robz has like 2 posts. Yeah, my default is just to scumread Robz. Move him to null.
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So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
Not true. I didn't notice that they were on the other link.
Genuine mistake
But it should be obvious that I'm town since I knew the town win condition word for word but not the scum one.....
Can you point me to a post from you before LaLight pointed you to the link with the win conditions that shows that you knew the town win condition?
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
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Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Space being all spacey, hi space!
Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P
Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?
I'll go with vote: Space for now.
And I'm very much in two minds about Pingpongsam.
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There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.
First faust:
Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.
Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?
Now chairs:
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?
Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.
Faust is an extremely capable player as both Town and Mafia. This frequently leads to him being prime night kill real estate when he is Town in any game where a different strong night kill choice does not exist.
chairs... Man I made myself a note in my QT to not argue with you this game.
But I think you've missed my point here. I understand that faust has a reputation for night 1 kill.
My point was just that you said 'isn't scum' where I think you meant 'is scum'.
But now that I look at it again, the thing that concerns me is that even if we swap 'isn't' for 'is', I still think you're wrong.
Faust can't be proved scum that way. There's plenty of WIFOM isn't there? I mean, right now, scum is sitting there thinking "excellent we'll leave faust alive and town will do our work for us".
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
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Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Space being all spacey, hi space!
Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P
Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?
Because I was particularly thinking about faust and what he said, so I commented about his post. It was a direct question because I thought the answer would help me read him. To me, his post felt like it only directed scum play, rather than informing town play, and I wasn't sure that was a good idea at that point in the game. However, faust isn't someone who makes poorly-thought-out posts just for the sake of it (unlike other players I can name, probably including myself!), so either he thought there was intrinsic town value, or he expected to be able to advise scumbuddies subtly and not to get picked on.
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Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
With regard to the reason for fluff...I think it depends on who it is and where we are at in the day. I’m know I’m fluffy, but primarily because I appreciate the human part of the game play and I find that I am much better at reading folks when I have a sense of who they are. I’m exactly the opposite of the analytical folks in that way, I guess.
I like pps’s explanation of voting for him because he might have bad reads is asinine, but all the rest of that post is rather more defensive than seems necessary. Especially the pro tip of what he’d do if he were scum. But it seems like he’s maybe more annoyed with EFHW than scrambling to cover his ass.
Vote: EFHW for a handful of one or two line posts but very little engagement or perspective otherwise. Although I’m not sure how much longer DatSwan and Robz get a weekend pass for not being around before it starts to look scummy.
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
Efhw what do you think about the post where pps votes for Faust?
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Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).
Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.
Can you explain your strong townread on E?
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Can you pin down why?
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Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.
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Faust can't be proved scum that way. There's plenty of WIFOM isn't there? I mean, right now, scum is sitting there thinking "excellent we'll leave faust alive and town will do our work for us".
I think chairs is using a stilistic device known as hyperbole.
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Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.
Can you pin down why?
Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
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Partly just being a pedant, but why is this important (for town...) to note this here, right now, rather than later?
Space being all spacey, hi space!
Good to see you, Mcmc! Was it the word "pedant" that gave me away? :-P
Hmm. This seems a bit contrived. Like you tried to find something - anything - that you could be pedantic about in order to seem like your natural self.
I think your question was a good one; some of the set-up analysis does seem a little premature. But the post that you applied it to (#69) seems like a rather strange choice. Why not my post #78? Or Joseph's pre-occupation with win conditions?
Because I was particularly thinking about faust and what he said, so I commented about his post. It was a direct question because I thought the answer would help me read him. To me, his post felt like it only directed scum play, rather than informing town play, and I wasn't sure that was a good idea at that point in the game. However, faust isn't someone who makes poorly-thought-out posts just for the sake of it (unlike other players I can name, probably including myself!), so either he thought there was intrinsic town value, or he expected to be able to advise scumbuddies subtly and not to get picked on.
OK. Sounds reasonable. I'm going to leave my vote here for a bit though because I feel like calling PPS's bluff. Or fluff, whichever.
As for the scum-value/town-value of that particular faust post, I would recommend comparing #69 with #36. Would you agree that #69 has faust-value, whatever faust's alignment is?
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Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.
Can you pin down why?
Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
Because I think it will help town.
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Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
Please go into more detail.
Can you pin down why?
Why are you encouraging people to talk about their townreads?
Because I think it will help town.
I don't see how making scum more informed helps town.
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Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.
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So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
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So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.
Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.
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Efhw what do you think about the post where pps votes for Faust?
Here is the post:
So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
Occam’s Razor or something. Either he is not so clever, transparent manipulative scum or he had very much the same response I did when reading my role PM that detailed the town wincon that caused me to consider A) what does scum’s look like and B) whether knowledge of town win on could be a towntell. I’m leaning toward the latter.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
Vote: faust
I don't like or agree with this post. In fact, it looks scummy to me. Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
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Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?
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Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?
No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Can you pin down why?
not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.
Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate? Should I townread mcmc for it?
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Can you pin down why?
not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.
Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate? Should I townread mcmc for it?
Well I can't see much of a rationale here.
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought his series of posts around the time of his drunk ama comment sounded like authentic observations instead of made up scum stuff.
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Guess it was the same thing. Replying as I catch up, so I didn't know this was the same thing you saw.
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Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).
Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.
Can you explain your strong townread on E?
That was is more gut than anything I think. His 3 posts in a row with reads in the middle came across towny when I read them.
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@Dylan and e: Could you explain your townreads on mcmc?
I thought posts during the drunk AMA were townie
Can you pin down why?
not one specific post, but just generally how he responded to different posts and how he responded.
Next topic: do you think my rationale is adequate? Should I townread mcmc for it?
Well I can't see much of a rationale here.
so no.
Do you think mcmc is town or do you just have no opinion at this time and consider my read premature?
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.
Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.
So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?
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Do you think mcmc is town or do you just have no opinion at this time and consider my read premature?
I don't really feel like answering this right now.
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So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Yes if you are merely questioning their town reads to generate more conversation I think it’s lazy and less than as helpful as you could be pushing a self made case or going down a line of questioning that leads to one. Seeing as you didn’t answer my question I’m going to guess this is the case. You inflate your own contributions and allow for more “I think this” statements that don’t help us out as much as they serve to make everyone seem active.
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So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Sorry this was overly snarky. I guess what I want to say is I prefer to keep the reasons for my inquiry to myself.
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Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?
No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.
Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.
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So I agree slightly with awaclus here but I do think there is a way to go about asking about townreads that ends in town getting more info then scum. My question to faust is, is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with your questions or were they just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Is there a specific place you were looking to go/get to with that question or was it just to promote engagement and dive deeper into the general reads posted?
Sorry this was overly snarky. I guess what I want to say is I prefer to keep the reasons for my inquiry to myself.
Totally reasonable.
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Dylan do you think your reads list was premature and has very very little weight behind actual reads? If so what motivated you to make the reads list and please be as specific as possible.
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Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.
You could focus on information that helps town and doesn't help scum, though. Townreads help scum and don't help town.
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OK. Sounds reasonable. I'm going to leave my vote here for a bit though because I feel like calling PPS's bluff. Or fluff, whichever.
As for the scum-value/town-value of that particular faust post, I would recommend comparing #69 with #36.
Post #36 is faust's opening post, and makes some suggestions to town about how we should play this. It also serves as a warning to the more hammer-hungry players (hi, PPS!) not to jump in too quickly, or to risk more town annoyance than usual if they do.
Post #69 is the one I commented on in the first place. It's an observation that doesn't need to be made so far in advance, because stating at the point that claims start to be made is entirely sufficient for town. The ones who benefit from the post are the scums who get told that they might want to consider pushing their claims earlier than they may have thought from prior experience. Unless he secretly thinks it's bad for scum and is hoping to make them make bad 1v1 decisions... I considered that too, but decided to comment anyway because it didn't seem super-likely so early on.
Would you agree that #69 has faust-value, whatever faust's alignment is?
I was talking about #69 all along as being the one I was interested in as far as faust's alignment goes, so I don't get why you're asking this here. Do you mean to ask whether I'm interested in #36 for this purpose? If so, then no, that was a standard sort of opener I think faust would make as either alignment.
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Making town more informed helps town. If you have found a way to make town more informed without also sharing that information with scum, I'm all ears.
You could focus on information that helps town and doesn't help scum, though. Townreads help scum and don't help town.
Townreads most definitely help town when I'm town, and posting townreads has hurt me as scum because it's quite hard to pivot when you're trying to look like you're being logical and principled in who you're trying to lynch off.
I know this is a thing with you, and that I'm unlikely to convince you otherwise, but I feel for the sake of the more newbie players, it's worth mentioning that there are some opinions that not everyone shares.
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Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?
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Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.
This post is odd.
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Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?
And I'm not quite sure what this relates to. The two posts just before it? You seem quite keen to defend Space, but your methods are a little strange to me. How did your earlier townread of Space have anything to do with those two posts which have just appeared now?
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Sorry for the delay in jumping in, like I mentioned the weekend was a little rough for me.
I had not been keeping up, but I am caught up now.
Things I am late to the party on:
1) Joseph asking for the wincons. My new philosophy from a few games back is to assign skum points to any open forum questions like this. Reason being essentially what faust pointed out.
Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
2) This...
Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
In the first post there is a link to the setup that has all the samples. The only thing changed is i added the flavor names into them all.
I followed that link a couple of weeks ago, but there was something I still wasn't clear about.
- town win condition is to have 2 scum dead and 1 scum on guillotine.
- scum win condition is to have at least as many scum alive as town (and on guillotine counts as alive).
So what happens if there are 3 players remaining: 1 scum who is not voting, 1 vig who is voting for the scum player, 1 VT on guillotine.
Now if the vig shoots, then the scum player immediately goes on the guillotine and both win conditions are met simultaneously. What happens?
Followed by this...
Faust, why do you like day 1 so much?
Because I'm alive on D1!
But seriously, that's not all. D1 is your purest form of social deduction. You have to figure out who's scum just by tone and without no concrete info. It's a special kind of challenge and it is just super satisfying to nail down a scum on the first Day.
I have a suggestion, and I might in fact be semi-serious about this.
I understand you have a track record of being killed first night. So how about we lynch you day 1? The set-up says the on-guillotine player cannot be night-killed. So if we lynch you day 1 then that guarantees that we benefit from your insight for day 1 AND day 2.
You'd be ok with that wouldn't you...?
Followed by this...
Mod: Can we have sample role PMs?
So we can be sure of the other team's win conditions
thanks
so the scum win condition is "You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
So on guillotine counts as alive for town, but effectively as dead for scum (if there's only 1 left)
.... is probably not Skum!Fang. Messed up thought process, followed by an outrageous plan, followed by self correction before anyone says anything. Not getting skum vibes from Fang here. No one really pushed them for it, so I guess this is just me stating I am leaning town on Fang currently.
3) Skum points to Chairs. Though I do understand their explanation a few posts later regarding the timeline they had in mind.
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
4) Fang making a very good point. More town points.
There's been a couple of things that seem backwards.
First faust:
Say you have two competing claims. In standard mafia you can just lynch one, if they're scum, lynch the other.
Surely if the first one is scum you don't lynch the other?
Now chairs:
Voting Faust D1 when we could lynch him later after the lack of NK proves he isn’t scum is scummy. vote: pps
How can surviving a night prove that someone isn't scum?
Or is it me who's got it backwards? Anyway, not sure that saying such things is necessarily scummy, just find it a bit odd that we've had two things like that now.
5) PPS... just kind of making no sense. First off, while I agree that Space is analytical.. I would invite you to help them create a situation to "solve" at this point in the game. More importantly, why in all the hell would you vote for Chairs if you think Space is skum?
Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
MO was short for modus operandi.
Vote: chairs
Pretty much all of that has been touched on already, but wanted my opinion out on a few things. I will be able to be active from here on in. See you tomorrow, it is late here.
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For my part, I like those two posts too (#191 and #192).
Unvote
No thanks to PPS's defense though.
In #191 you completely missed the point I was trying to draw you towards, but that's fine, I probably just worded my question badly and anyway the thing that stood out to me maybe didn't stand out for you. I like that we're all different.
PPE: DatSwan!
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.... is probably not Skum!Fang.
Thanks, but I should point out that of the 4 posts you used to reach that conclusion, 2 were by me and 2 were by Joseph. We may both be Brits, but we're not the same person!
In fact, I didn't back down from my plan 'before anyone says anything', I intentionally left my plan out there for a bit and collected responses from faust, Awaclus, WCD and EFGHW before backing down.
Anyway, good to have you around again.
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
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This seems like as good a time as any to request a prod on Robz
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This seems like as good a time as any to request a prod on Robz
Sent.
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Vote count 1.2
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
pingpongsam (2): chairs, EFHW
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
chairs (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not voting (4): 2.71828....., DatSwan, Robz888, infangthief
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
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vote: PPS
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?
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Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.
This post is odd.
What is odd about it? I want efhw to expand her case. I was attempting to get her to do so by asking her opinion of a post by pps and she just said she didn’t like it and found it scummy.
I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?
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5) PPS... just kind of making no sense. First off, while I agree that Space is analytical.. I would invite you to help them create a situation to "solve" at this point in the game. More importantly, why in all the hell would you vote for Chairs if you think Space is skum?
Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
MO was short for modus operandi.
Vote: chairs
I don’t think Space is scum. I have been making that much abundantly obvious.
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For my part, I like those two posts too (#191 and #192).
Unvote
No thanks to PPS's defense though.
You may not like my adoration but clearly you have an affinity for poetic townery just as I do.
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Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.
This post is odd.
What is odd about it? I want efhw to expand her case. I was attempting to get her to do so by asking her opinion of a post by pps and she just said she didn’t like it and found it scummy.
The way I see it is that, if someone is scum, then I would expect a few different people to find them scummy, but I would not expect their reasons to necessarily be the same. After all, we all bring different skills, perspectives, etc to this game - some are analytical, some have accurate gut feelings, whatever.
So I think it is odd that you expect EFHW to think PPS is scummy for the same reason that you think PPS is scummy. If you both think PPS is scummy for different reasons, that's a stronger, multi-dimensional case, not a shallower one.
Actually, reading it closely, I see that you don't actually say you think PPS's case on faust is scummy, you just say that PPS's case on faust is relevant to PPS's alignment. Would you care to clarify your own position?
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.
Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.
So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?
If you reread the bolded parts above, you will see the basis of my vote has nothing to do with the accuracy of your read. It's about the effort put into it. You are distorting what I am saying. And what is everything else?
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I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?
Again? I think this is the first time... Anyway, two things:
First is, in fact, PPS's case on faust.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
Vote: faust
I did not think faust had smeared many targets. He had made a case against Joseph. He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing). And he'd challenged me and then WCD about the 'lynch faust day 1 plan' (I don't think any of that was smearing).
So by my count faust had smeared one target.
The second thing is what I said in #195.
PPE: 1
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I see you are again voting pps, can you explain your case for me?
Again? I think this is the first time... Anyway, two things:
First is, in fact, PPS's case on faust.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
Vote: faust
I did not think faust had smeared many targets. He had made a case against Joseph. He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing). And he'd challenged me and then WCD about the 'lynch faust day 1 plan' (I don't think any of that was smearing).
So by my count faust had smeared one target.
The second thing is what I said in #195.
PPE: 1
Fair points except you omitted the part where this was super early in the game and Joseph was and is my top town read. He hadn’t had time to really spread the wealth.
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Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
If you disagree with my town read on Space you vote for Space. Seems pretty asinine to vote me because you disagree with my read. Like, is it supposed to be a scum tactic to have bad reads where I’m finding someone to be town? Seems to me the scummy tactic would be forming cases to paint people as scum to get them lynched. I suppose I could do some sly POE where I make town cases and then say well I guess these other folks must be scum.
Your vote suggests you think I am scum and that it shows because I am town reading someone. Would you go so far as to say I might be defending a scum partner? In countless games played I believe I have only done this exactly one time and it did not pan out well. Here’s a secret, if I am scum you can find my partners in those people I make no defenses for.
Snarky response. I voted you not Space because you were giving a lazy read. They had posted since your initial read, that was based on very little, and your response to the question described them in the present - not just as you perceived them then. It doesn't feel like you were actually considering if she was scum or not. I stand by my vote.
So, you do think making bad town reads is somehow a scum tactic and you chose to ignore everything else?
If you reread the bolded parts above, you will see the basis of my vote has nothing to do with the accuracy of your read. It's about the effort put into it. You are distorting what I am saying. And what is everything else?
So, your vote was just intended as a personal insult? I don’t have a count of how many games I’ve played with Space but I’m thinking it is between 5 and 10 and in all of them I read Space as scum from start to finish. But somehow, this game, that is not at all happening. This is worth noting. It’s not lazy to note this. I didn’t make a case for them being town so that might appear lazy but it wasn't meant to be a case, it was a public exposition of a gut read. Gut reads are almost entirely what I work off of which is a fact you appear to be deliberately avoiding.
As for the everything else it was all the points I made about why you attacking me for defending Space is a terrible case. I don’t defend partners. Well, I did one time after a long history of never doing it because I thought doing so would be a good anti meta strategy. It blew up in my face so there’s a strong case to be made for me never doing it again or at least for a very long time.
All of your case is predicated on me being a typical, logic based player which I never have been. It’s popular to punish me for this and if you want to come out of the shadows and admit you are just here to punish me for not conforming to your ideas of how everyone should play the game then at least I could respect your honesty and it certainly wouldn’t make you in any way different from several others past and present.
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If someone really wanted to make a lazy case on me it would be for sheeping Joseph and subsequently Awaclus onto chairs. Problem is the chairs case is indefensible so it seems better to let this one lie from a scum standpoint, I presume?
As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
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Not sure why you are asking, though. Since I'm already voting for him, you know where I stand.
Do you mean to say that if you are voting for someone, you will always think that all their posts are scummy?
No, but if I found that one towny I likely wouldn't still be voting him. My saying it's scummy isnt that helpful for mcmc since I could be biased.
Right, simply stating you don’t like it isn’t that helpful. I’m wanted you to go more in-depth because your current case on pps is very shallow and I think pps’s post about Faust is as relevant if not more to pps’s alignment than his post about space.
Putting the post in again for reference:
Here is the post:
So here is what I think: Joseph is scum. The whole asking for win conditions stuff doesn't strike me as something Joseph would do usually, but it is a way for him to be active without being very useful and at the same time it is designed to suggest to us that he's oh so townie because he doesn't know scum's win condition.
Vote: Joseph
Occam’s Razor or something. Either he is not so clever, transparent manipulative scum or he had very much the same response I did when reading my role PM that detailed the town wincon that caused me to consider A) what does scum’s look like and B) whether knowledge of town win on could be a towntell. I’m leaning toward the latter.
Also, this looks like standard MO for scum Faust as he uses whatever is handy for smearing as many potential targets as early as possible.
Vote: faust
My objections to this post:
faust presented a standard scum narrative that fit the data. pps reframed it into something more sinister and then used himself as the basis for disagreeing - no data for the rest of us to evaluate. Then he smears faust while accusing faust of smearing Joseph.
But I don't think my initial vote or case was shallow. It was early Day 1 and I have a valid observation. We can disagree about its meaning, but there's enough there for an early Day 1 vote. Why didn't you question my vote on Robz? I didn't even explain that one.
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Nothing personal was intended at any point. And I'm not thinking about past games and metas. Just the current game.
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Yeh, Request prod on chairs
Been gone even longer than Robz. Did he mean he wanted the game to end on Monday rather than start on Monday??
And WCD is suspiciously absent too, ever since calling out Robz and DatSwan for inactivity.
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And Joseph has been gone the longest of the lot, except of course for a single post this morning saying 'I'm watching and have nothing to say'.
Joseph >> chairs >> Robz >> WCD >> 24hrs
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Request prod on chairs
Done.
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He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).
I don't do RVS.
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The EFHW/PPS exchange is fascinating. Every time one of them posts, I think "Well, that's a solid point."
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Yeh, Request prod on chairs
Been gone even longer than Robz. Did he mean he wanted the game to end on Monday rather than start on Monday??
And WCD is suspiciously absent too, ever since calling out Robz and DatSwan for inactivity.
Hi! Not suspiciously absent...just in the midst of grading midterms.
Watching the PPS/EFHW dustup is interesting. I wonder why they are so at odds with one another. I am between classes right now, but will have more time later today.
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The EFHW/PPS exchange is fascinating. Every time one of them posts, I think "Well, that's a solid point."
Yes! This! I thought PPS's first slap back was kind of defensive, but in later posts he seems to be articulating himself much better. I find myself agreeing with him more than not, but EFHW isn't wrong in some of her replies. It is one of the most compelling clashes of playstyles that I am aware of in that PPS is so cogent in his explanation.
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I agree with whoever said it's time for mcmc to state his views on pps.
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Watching the PPS/EFHW dustup is interesting. I wonder why they are so at odds with one another.
I'm not comfortable with this post. We aren't "at odds with each other". I voted him for a reasonable reason and he has been defending himself. This characterization puts us in equivalent positions, which is not accurate and implicitly weakens my position.
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My objections to this post:
faust presented a standard scum narrative that fit the data. pps reframed it into something more sinister and then used himself as the basis for disagreeing - no data for the rest of us to evaluate. Then he smears faust while accusing faust of smearing Joseph.
But I don't think my initial vote or case was shallow. It was early Day 1 and I have a valid observation. We can disagree about its meaning, but there's enough there for an early Day 1 vote. Why didn't you question my vote on Robz? I didn't even explain that one.
I admit I am getting confused. I don’t recall suggesting your vote or case to be shallow. Possibly you are referring to someone else alongside me?
Of course Faust is not going to make a sloppy case regardless of his alignment. I mean he has but only as an exception to the rule. As such any attacks on his case are going to be hitting smooth edges instead of digging straight in.
You are very remiss to discard past game meta. Especially in regards to myself or faust. Without prior data points both of us are inscrutable in almost completely orthogonal ways. I provided you past data points to explain how my play was not scummy and you insist on ignoring that. I’ve also referenced past data points on faust that could indicate this is more likely a scum expression than town. His town meta is far more inclined to make damning questions along the lines of “have you stopped beating your wife”. I even tried use some logical mechanism in my appeal, that is, which outcome seems more likely looking at Joseph’s behavior. You, EFHW, seem hell bent on agreeing with Faust’s position but your basis for doing so is hinged around discrediting me for have a counter opinion that I have more than adequately based in experience in playing with faust.
You may accuse me of self referencing but in fact I am referencing a huge experience set that most other players share. It should be a relatively easy thing to prove or disprove based on the subjective collective experience of other players in this game (though, admittedly, this one is thinner than most). I am making claims that can be refuted with quotes from previous games which is not something infrequently done, especially in response to my play style. I would hazard a guess that less than 10% of my games did not include faust in the lineup. We have a long standing history of antagonism. It has gone through stages over the years and has matured into a mutual scrutability. So maybe, yes, I am better positioned to make this read on faust than most here but I am by no means the only one present who could refute the points if there was merit to do so.
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Prod acknowledged! (This is not a good sign...)
I will make a stronger attempt to get into this game shortly, just have a lot going on at the moment.
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Yeah yeah I’m here. I wanted this game to start on Monday thinking I would be home last night (I wasn’t). I’m supposed to be home tonight though
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If someone really wanted to make a lazy case on me it would be for sheeping Joseph and subsequently Awaclus onto chairs. Problem is the chairs case is indefensible so it seems better to let this one lie from a scum standpoint, I presume?
As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
Not super convinced that chairs is scum.
But it is the best option I can see right now
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As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
This reasoning would imply that one of the people applying pressure is scum. Currently voting for you are EFHW and infang. Which of those do you think is scum?
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Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.
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As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
This reasoning would imply that one of the people applying pressure is scum. Currently voting for you are EFHW and infang. Which of those do you think is scum?
I'm thinking about the times I've played with EFHW. I don't believe we have ever been scum partners. I learn the most about someone being their scum partner. She is universally quite good. I recall her being an excellent IC. I recall her being extremely strong as scum and I recall her busting my scum fake claim in the Time Travel RMM. Granted in that case she had access to info I could not know she had but her conviction pushed it through. She is extremely persuasive and quite tenacious. Her reads are not particularly stronger than random but she will absolutely smell a scum tell. Her play style lends well to her being either alignment.
EFHW continuing onto me could potentially be trying to leverage into a mislynch and I was feeling this more strongly at the point I wrote this. I'm still trying to sort this out in my head, right now. I have moved from being certain this was a scum play to more 50/50 because usually this degree of discourse is indicative of Town v Town. That said, the best defense is a good offense and pressing into me can deter anyone from reading her initial case on me as testing the waters. If continued discourse only cements her scum read on me and she is town then I'm at a loss because the degree of engagement I've given it was wasted.
The votes on me are not in a vacuum. There is the context other players have provided concerning how they are reading me and this interaction in particular. Her continued pressure could easily be about swaying additional votes especially at a later time. I do feel, at this time, I am the primary lynch candidate outside of chairs for today. I know this can all swing rather quickly but these slow burn cases are often the hook everyone hangs their hat on as deadline approaches and all this conversation that dominated the thread leads everyone to essentially sheep.
To be most blunt and clear; while I was leveling some suspicion it was not OMGUS and my certainty was low enough to abstain from casting a vote in her direction. Furthermore, your particular reading of it I find more in line with your town play.
infang is currently unreadable to me largely due to no prior play history. Their reads and posts have kind of been all over the place. They are squarely in the null camp. I am not taking their suspicion of me as any sort of scum tell, primarily because we have never played together. I know how I tend to come across to people unexposed to me.
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As an aside to my roasting (or maybe it adds fuel, who knows).
I was trying to parse out the machinations of the setup. Anyone who has ever played with me knows setups are by far my weakest point. Can anyone explain to positive utility of the Impatient Vigilante? The only thing I could figure was if they knew the on guillotine person was scum (and how would they outside of conditions that cause a win anyhow?) they could remove them from the game post haste.
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Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.
It's an option. Currently the most preferred option
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As an aside to my roasting (or maybe it adds fuel, who knows).
I was trying to parse out the machinations of the setup. Anyone who has ever played with me knows setups are by far my weakest point. Can anyone explain to positive utility of the Impatient Vigilante? The only thing I could figure was if they knew the on guillotine person was scum (and how would they outside of conditions that cause a win anyhow?) they could remove them from the game post haste.
If they're sure the person on the guillotine is scum, then it's decent use
But if you're sure the person on L-1 is scum, then it reduces the lynch number by 1. This seems to me to be the best use for it.
Also when someone uses it, I guess we can get into claiming that role, which may hopefully out a scum
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Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.
no you aren't. at least in my book.
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It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.
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Wait, I’m up as our probable D1 lynch? Argh. I’ll skip sleep tonight and respond.
no you aren't. at least in my book.
Interesting you just weighed in on this. You don't think chairs was being quite the scummy scum for lining up the lynches and queueing faust for later since hey, he's alive, so he must be scum and then saying my case on him must be scummy because I think if we believe someone might be scum we should lynch them now instead of later?
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Vote: Dylan for putting me on his scum list and then reconsidering.
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It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.
Except they declare privately by PM....
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It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen.
Good point.
I covered another positive utility thing back at post #53. Basically it can cancel out the delayed flip handicap, on the day it is used. Like we'll wake up tomorrow none the wiser about the alignment of the day 1 lynch. But then, if we think it would be really super helpful to know that alignment, then we can politely request the Vig to shoot and get us that info.
I think that 'mechanic with a single-use tub of oil' might be a more appropriate name for the role.
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Vote: Dylan for putting me on his scum list and then reconsidering.
Robz, I don't necessarily remember how my gut used to read everyone here that I've played with, but I definitely remember having to fight against gut reading you as scum. When I posted that list, my gut said you were scum, but then as I typed it, I remembered the aforementioned fact and decided to see if there was anything specific that I saw that justified that read. I decided to hit post and then check rather than checking so I could edit my post to make sure it was just right.
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Wow, I should go on holiday more often to get townread :-P
Back now, skimmed a bit of what's going on, but will have to re-read tomorrow to form actual opinions and stuff. Night night!
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It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.
This is actually a decent point. Especially with lowering the threshhold being taken into consideration. The Vig ICing themselves at the same time as shooting could be invaluable depending on what stage of the game it takes place in.
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People were asking so I think all the cases on pps so far have been weak, I though pps has not had great reads(the faust one in particular) but overall I think he has played.
I actually like my Dylan vote quite a bit. I’ll do some rereading and see what more I can glean tommorow.
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It just occurred to me that the role can essentially IC themselves by making a public thing happen. I edited the rest of my thoughts on this out because well, why provide info to scum if I don't have to? But I can now see why the role would actually be used as opposed to disused to prevent further harm.
Also having that shot around encourages on-guillotine players to still participate in the game the day after they are lynched.
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Ok vote: Dylan
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He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).
I don't do RVS.
In that case, would you feel able to share with us why you voted for him?
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?
Joseph, I'm trying to work out what to make of your continued avoidance of faust's question.
Like, I'm not even really that interested in the answer, I just find it very weird that you've been 'keeping up' but neglecting to answer a question that seemed pretty central to your town claim.
If you really honestly missed seeing the question, it's at #154.
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He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).
I don't do RVS.
In that case, would you feel able to share with us why you voted for him?
Sure. Look at his first post:
Hey all - set up looks fun. I don’t think the delayed lynch should change play to much. Skum will know if town is on the block or not and town will not know until the next day.
Anyways - I’ll be light of content until Monday evening. Meet this weekend.
It has a feel of grasping to find something to talk about. The result is a paragraph discussing the setup that does not help anyone. I think town!Swan would have not felt as much pressure to talk about something.
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He'd had a vote on DatSwan (which I assume was RVS, so not really smearing).
I don't do RVS.
In that case, would you feel able to share with us why you voted for him?
Sure. Look at his first post:
Hey all - set up looks fun. I don’t think the delayed lynch should change play to much. Skum will know if town is on the block or not and town will not know until the next day.
Anyways - I’ll be light of content until Monday evening. Meet this weekend.
It has a feel of grasping to find something to talk about. The result is a paragraph discussing the setup that does not help anyone. I think town!Swan would have not felt as much pressure to talk about something.
Thanks faust. Yes, sort of makes sense.
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PPS, have you read WCD's t-shirt by any chance?
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And maybe I should do a read through of Dylan at some point, now that he's reached the heady heights of 3 votes.
Dylan, PPS and chairs all on 3 votes. I've read the chairs stuff and I don't think he's scum. I wish he'd participate more though.
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PPS, have you read WCD's t-shirt by any chance?
Ha! That’s awesome
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PPS, have you read WCD's t-shirt by any chance?
No, if this is a joke it has gone over my head. In my world WCD means What.cd
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Dylan, PPS and chairs all on 3 votes. I've read the chairs stuff and I don't think he's scum. I wish he'd participate more though.
I’m not sure that the case on any of those three is especially compelling. Chairs hasn’t been around much, pps has mostly been involved in a conversation about how he reads folks an dpicked up votes for being lazy, and the votes on Dylan are odd and seem kind of random.
Faust’s explanation of the DatSwan vote is most interesting to me, but now he’s voting for Dylan instead but I’m not sure why. Swans most recent post is also about set up. Those are the kinds of things I have posted in the past because newb. Swan is way more experienced than that...a “fuming magician”, if you will.
Vote: DatSwan
I also find EFHWs hard lean into PPS somewhat scummy, but I get the sense that is maybe part of the way she plays since “tenacious” has been used as a descriptor.
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PPS, have you read WCD's t-shirt by any chance?
No, if this is a joke it has gone over my head. In my world WCD means What.cd
He referring to my signature line....which I made up in my first game when someone told us we needed signatures to make us searchable. The shirt says “writing well is the best revenge”. And you’ve got that skill!
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PPS, have you read WCD's t-shirt by any chance?
No, if this is a joke it has gone over my head. In my world WCD means What.cd
Semi-joke, semi-serious.
According to WestCoastDidds' signature, she has a t-shirt that says "writing well is the best revenge".
It seems to me that you have been very intentionally writing rather well recently. Presumably to seem towny?
PPE: 1
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Meh. Vote: WCD
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Actually, PPS, I think I'm going to stop pushing you. Your first response (#212) to my 'case' seemed very reasonable.
Like, I think my case still stands, weak as it undoubtedly is, and I'm going to leave my vote on you for now because I don't have anywhere better to put it for the moment.
But it would be nice if someone else is the day 1 lynch, because, if you are town, you are at least engaged and active, not to mention entertaining, and your gut reads could well prove very useful with this set-up where we don't get info from lynches.
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I’m sorry folks, life bit hard yesterday to the tune of an Er visit for my fiancée. I’m going to ask to be replaced. I will try to participate in the meantime.
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Actually, PPS, I think I'm going to stop pushing you. Your first response (#212) to my 'case' seemed very reasonable.
Like, I think my case still stands, weak as it undoubtedly is, and I'm going to leave my vote on you for now because I don't have anywhere better to put it for the moment.
But it would be nice if someone else is the day 1 lynch, because, if you are town, you are at least engaged and active, not to mention entertaining, and your gut reads could well prove very useful with this set-up where we don't get info from lynches.
Dude if you don't want PPS to be the D1 lynch then I suggest removing your vote. I also suggest moving it to WCD.
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When do we get a Robz? I know he doesn't D1 but it doesn't make it excusable.
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I’m sorry folks, life bit hard yesterday to the tune of an Er visit for my fiancée. I’m going to ask to be replaced. I will try to participate in the meantime.
Oh. I'm sorry to hear that.
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Vote count 1.3
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (3): chairs, EFHW, infangthief
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
chairs (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): faust
Not voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
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Actually, PPS, I think I'm going to stop pushing you. Your first response (#212) to my 'case' seemed very reasonable.
Like, I think my case still stands, weak as it undoubtedly is, and I'm going to leave my vote on you for now because I don't have anywhere better to put it for the moment.
But it would be nice if someone else is the day 1 lynch, because, if you are town, you are at least engaged and active, not to mention entertaining, and your gut reads could well prove very useful with this set-up where we don't get info from lynches.
Start pushing chairs instead.
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hypercube replaces chairs, effective immediately
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Vote count 1.4
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): faust
Not voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am
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I’m sorry folks, life bit hard yesterday to the tune of an Er visit for my fiancée. I’m going to ask to be replaced. I will try to participate in the meantime.
Oh no! Best wishes to her...and you. That is no fun at all.
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Meh. Vote: WCD
Well, that’s helpful...
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Hi everyone!
unvote for now until I reread.
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Hi hypercube! Are there any reasons why you aren't scum?
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I also suggest moving it to WCD.
Start pushing chairs instead.
"Oo please come join my wagon"
My thought on reading WCD's #256 was "at last something towny from WCD!". Well, we're all different.
As for chairs/hypercube, I don't agree with the cases made by Joseph (#129) and PPS (#238). Would you like to tell me what your case is, Awaclus?
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Hi hypercube! Are there any reasons why you aren't scum?
It says so in my PM.
vote: Joseph for mostly just doing setup talk and avoiding other interaction.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
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Would you like to tell me what your case is, Awaclus?
No.
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Meh. Vote: WCD
Well, that’s helpful...
I know right
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
Kind of weird of her to pick out some people who have been posting a decent amount for her arbitrary 7, but to leave me/chairs out of it.
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Vote: WCD
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?
Joseph, I'm trying to work out what to make of your continued avoidance of faust's question.
Like, I'm not even really that interested in the answer, I just find it very weird that you've been 'keeping up' but neglecting to answer a question that seemed pretty central to your town claim.
If you really honestly missed seeing the question, it's at #154.
Which question? Must have missed it....
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Meh. Vote: WCD
I can go along with this. vote: WCD
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As for chairs/hypercube, I don't agree with the cases made by Joseph (#129) and PPS (#238). Would you like to tell me what your case is, Awaclus?
What, exactly, do you disagree with? My case is concise, irrefutable, and targets precisely the sort of play we don't wish to see.
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And on that note... where is Joseph? A couple of jokes, a few questions about win conditions and then... nothing. He's had more interaction with the mod than with other players.
Joseph, look, I'm still standing by you being town, but if you leave your only contribution for the day as asking about win cons, my view may start to change. My reasons for thinking you are town are only based on things which could be faked as scum.
Joseph is around. I've been keeping up but not that much to say
Was it hard to find an answer to faust's question?
Joseph, I'm trying to work out what to make of your continued avoidance of faust's question.
Like, I'm not even really that interested in the answer, I just find it very weird that you've been 'keeping up' but neglecting to answer a question that seemed pretty central to your town claim.
If you really honestly missed seeing the question, it's at #154.
Which question? Must have missed it....
Look it up. #154.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
I agree with this.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
Kind of weird of her to pick out some people who have been posting a decent amount for her arbitrary 7, but to leave me/chairs out of it.
I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
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Meh. Vote: WCD
I can go along with this. vote: WCD
Similarly insightful
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
My list might well have some inaccuracies (I'm on my phone so limited searching ability) but my question is, is my impression correct? Does it feel like everyone is playing? More to the point, is that normal?
My whole purpose in continuing to play a game that I am not very good at is to learn how to do it better. It seems like being around infrequently and/or randomly would be better for scum. Is that right?
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I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
It struck me a bit like you chose the number 7, then made a list of seven people to call out. That is, it seems contrived rather than an actual analysis of the state of the game.
My list might well have some inaccuracies (I'm on my phone so limited searching ability) but my question is, is my impression correct? Does it feel like everyone is playing? More to the point, is that normal?
My whole purpose in continuing to play a game that I am not very good at is to learn how to do it better. It seems like being around infrequently and/or randomly would be better for scum. Is that right?
The level of activity seems fairly close to the other two D1's I've played here. When I reread it seemed like everyone was present in some form other than Robz.
I'm not what your second point is getting at. Are you asking us if scum!WCD should stop hanging around the thread?
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The level of activity seems fairly close to the other two D1's I've played here. When I reread it seemed like everyone was present in some form other than Robz.
I'm not what your second point is getting at. Are you asking us if scum!WCD should stop hanging around the thread?
But you said e seemed to be lurking, no? It really feels like everyone is engaged?
Ha! All I know about its being townie. I am pretty sure that if I ever do have to be scum that I will undoubtedly overcompensate.
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I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
It struck me a bit like you chose the number 7, then made a list of seven people to call out. That is, it seems contrived rather than an actual analysis of the state of the game.
Oh, yeah. That is definitely fair. I wasn't really analyzing anything in particular. Just speaking off the cuff about my impression that it seems like only a handful of people are playing. I was trying capture my sense that the folks who were engaged just kept scrutinizing one another, but (obviously) choose my words too casually since the spirit of my comment is being ignored.
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The level of activity seems fairly close to the other two D1's I've played here. When I reread it seemed like everyone was present in some form other than Robz.
I'm not what your second point is getting at. Are you asking us if scum!WCD should stop hanging around the thread?
But you said e seemed to be lurking, no? It really feels like everyone is engaged?
Ha! All I know about its being townie. I am pretty sure that if I ever do have to be scum that I will undoubtedly overcompensate.
My impression of E was that he's maintaining some level of posting activity while not really contributing much to the discussion.
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I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
It struck me a bit like you chose the number 7, then made a list of seven people to call out. That is, it seems contrived rather than an actual analysis of the state of the game.
Oh, yeah. That is definitely fair. I wasn't really analyzing anything in particular. Just speaking off the cuff about my impression that it seems like only a handful of people are playing. I was trying capture my sense that the folks who were engaged just kept scrutinizing one another, but (obviously) choose my words too casually since the spirit of my comment is being ignored.
Hmm, I don't find myself making extensive lists casually all that often.
vote: WCD
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Hmm, I don't find myself making extensive lists casually all that often.
vote: WCD
That doesn’t seem like super compelling reason to lynch me, but it’s more reason than any of the other votes which are just “meh”, so I’ve got that going for me. Which is nice.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
My list might well have some inaccuracies (I'm on my phone so limited searching ability) but my question is, is my impression correct? Does it feel like everyone is playing? More to the point, is that normal?
My whole purpose in continuing to play a game that I am not very good at is to learn how to do it better. It seems like being around infrequently and/or randomly would be better for scum. Is that right?
Responding specifically to italics: This just depends on the person. Some people are very good at being very active, controlling the discussion, and actively manipulating town as scum, while others do what you are suggesting and try to blend into the background and only post the bare minimum. I tend to operate under the assumption that most people's activity level is a result of irl business and so I don't look at activity level as being a worthwhile starting point for a case. A point in a more comprehensive case, sure, but not the primary one, outside of extreme cases.
I'll be back on later this evening with a lot more free time to reread the last few pages.
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E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
My list might well have some inaccuracies (I'm on my phone so limited searching ability) but my question is, is my impression correct? Does it feel like everyone is playing? More to the point, is that normal?
My whole purpose in continuing to play a game that I am not very good at is to learn how to do it better. It seems like being around infrequently and/or randomly would be better for scum. Is that right?
Responding specifically to italics: This just depends on the person. Some people are very good at being very active, controlling the discussion, and actively manipulating town as scum, while others do what you are suggesting and try to blend into the background and only post the bare minimum. I tend to operate under the assumption that most people's activity level is a result of irl business and so I don't look at activity level as being a worthwhile starting point for a case. A point in a more comprehensive case, sure, but not the primary one, outside of extreme cases.
I'll be back on later this evening with a lot more free time to reread the last few pages.
"Business" should be "busyness"
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That doesn’t seem like super compelling reason to lynch me, but it’s more reason than any of the other votes which are just “meh”, so I’ve got that going for me. Which is nice.
I have a more compelling reason to lynch you.
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That doesn’t seem like super compelling reason to lynch me, but it’s more reason than any of the other votes which are just “meh”, so I’ve got that going for me. Which is nice.
I have a more compelling reason to lynch you.
I know better than to ask you to share. But you told me that the priority is to lynch scum. If that’s true, then I’m a bad target. If you’re looking to decrease the number of townies, then lynching me is smart.
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That doesn’t seem like super compelling reason to lynch me, but it’s more reason than any of the other votes which are just “meh”, so I’ve got that going for me. Which is nice.
I have a more compelling reason to lynch you.
Which is?
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I hate the wcd votes and think scum is absolutely on wagon currently. In fact vote: efhw
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But you told me that the priority is to lynch scum. If that’s true, then I’m a bad target.
Why?
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But you told me that the priority is to lynch scum. If that’s true, then I’m a bad target.
Why?
I’m not scum! Even a little bit, even at all.
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Since I know my wagon sux, those on it get the squinty side eye.
So, back to vote:EFHW
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vote: EFHW
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yeah, hasn't been a good D1 for me, and that is not helpful. That being said, I think we have had quite a few good interactions.
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I hate the wcd votes and think scum is absolutely on wagon currently. In fact vote: efhw
"Scum is on the wagon" is such a bullshit lazy statement.
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I hate the wcd votes and think scum is absolutely on wagon currently. In fact vote: efhw
I agree with the first half of this statement.
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If it makes people more comfortable voting for WCD I can also make a case. It has been going decently without one so far though, and that is nice.
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I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
It struck me a bit like you chose the number 7, then made a list of seven people to call out. That is, it seems contrived rather than an actual analysis of the state of the game.
Oh, yeah. That is definitely fair. I wasn't really analyzing anything in particular. Just speaking off the cuff about my impression that it seems like only a handful of people are playing. I was trying capture my sense that the folks who were engaged just kept scrutinizing one another, but (obviously) choose my words too casually since the spirit of my comment is being ignored.
Hmm, I don't find myself making extensive lists casually all that often.
vote: WCD
This seems to be the best developed case on WCD and I think it is terrible. I am all about doing all together too early D1 PoE based on a seemingly random basis. That is basically what WCD did there.
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If it makes people more comfortable voting for WCD I can also make a case. It has been going decently without one so far though, and that is nice.
I love cases, they make arguing against lynches so much easier.
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Since I know my wagon sux, those on it get the squinty side eye.
So, back to vote:EFHW
This isn't a great vote either.
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now that I am done criticizing everyone and everything, let me try to add some productive discussion.
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vote: Joseph
^^productive
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I’m not scum! Even a little bit, even at all.
Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?
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I’m not scum! Even a little bit, even at all.
Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?
I do!
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Happy Halloween!
I’m off to take the kid to coerce candy from friends and neighbors. Community building at its best!
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I do!
Sharing it might convince me to move my vote elsewhere.
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I was leaving you out of it because of the replacement, and chairs obvi had real life issues.
As for the others who have had more posts than I have, fair enough, but they are concentrated in time, not over an arc of the week.
It struck me a bit like you chose the number 7, then made a list of seven people to call out. That is, it seems contrived rather than an actual analysis of the state of the game.
Oh, yeah. That is definitely fair. I wasn't really analyzing anything in particular. Just speaking off the cuff about my impression that it seems like only a handful of people are playing. I was trying capture my sense that the folks who were engaged just kept scrutinizing one another, but (obviously) choose my words too casually since the spirit of my comment is being ignored.
Hmm, I don't find myself making extensive lists casually all that often.
vote: WCD
This seems to be the best developed case on WCD and I think it is terrible. I am all about doing all together too early D1 PoE based on a seemingly random basis. That is basically what WCD did there.
I agree. This is a nothing case, even by D1 standards.
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vote: Joseph
^^productive
Not a good vote.
Even if I have been unhelpfully inactive D1 as per usual
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Honestly I've been busy and don't get super thrilled by D1 anyway.
It's a lot of mostly random chatter and some terrible lynch cases. And right near the end of the day, a lynch will get scrambled together.
In this setup, D2 is likely to be similar too
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Honestly I've been busy and don't get super thrilled by D1 anyway.
It's a lot of mostly random chatter and some terrible lynch cases. And right near the end of the day, a lynch will get scrambled together.
In this setup, D2 is likely to be similar too
It's the same for everyone.
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Honestly I've been busy and don't get super thrilled by D1 anyway.
It's a lot of mostly random chatter and some terrible lynch cases. And right near the end of the day, a lynch will get scrambled together.
In this setup, D2 is likely to be similar too
It's the same for everyone.
Apparently faust just loves it...
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Honestly I've been busy and don't get super thrilled by D1 anyway.
It's a lot of mostly random chatter and some terrible lynch cases. And right near the end of the day, a lynch will get scrambled together.
In this setup, D2 is likely to be similar too
If you're going to be as lurky on D2 as well, we might as well lynch you now.
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I do!
Sharing it might convince me to move my vote elsewhere.
Vote: Awaclus
not his town meta to convince people to be productive and share info.
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Honestly I've been busy and don't get super thrilled by D1 anyway.
It's a lot of mostly random chatter and some terrible lynch cases. And right near the end of the day, a lynch will get scrambled together.
In this setup, D2 is likely to be similar too
If you're going to be as lurky on D2 as well, we might as well lynch you now.
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying I enjoy D1 randomness less than some people e.g. you, seem to
Especially as there doesn't seem to be much setup talk in this setup either
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I do!
Sharing it might convince me to move my vote elsewhere.
Vote: Awaclus
not his town meta to convince people to be productive and share info.
It is totally Awaclus's meta to ask people to explain why they are town. He does it all the time.
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And anyway voting people because they deviate from their meta isn't the best way to find scum.
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Anyway I think the WCD wagon could use more momentum at this point.
Let's look at this post:
Fang, mcmc, and Awaclus seem townie to me.
With regard to the reason for fluff...I think it depends on who it is and where we are at in the day. I’m know I’m fluffy, but primarily because I appreciate the human part of the game play and I find that I am much better at reading folks when I have a sense of who they are. I’m exactly the opposite of the analytical folks in that way, I guess.
I like pps’s explanation of voting for him because he might have bad reads is asinine, but all the rest of that post is rather more defensive than seems necessary. Especially the pro tip of what he’d do if he were scum. But it seems like he’s maybe more annoyed with EFHW than scrambling to cover his ass.
Vote: EFHW for a handful of one or two line posts but very little engagement or perspective otherwise. Although I’m not sure how much longer DatSwan and Robz get a weekend pass for not being around before it starts to look scummy.
First, the blanket town reads. Those are just rehashes of reads that other people expressed before. It does not help town to have those reads expressed, but it's a cheap way for scum to generate some safe reads on players who won't get lynched today anyway.
The EFHW vote is also terrible. Lurking is bad, but lurking is not scummy. Making it appear any other way is disingenuous.
The other relevant post is this one:
Dylan, PPS and chairs all on 3 votes. I've read the chairs stuff and I don't think he's scum. I wish he'd participate more though.
I’m not sure that the case on any of those three is especially compelling. Chairs hasn’t been around much, pps has mostly been involved in a conversation about how he reads folks an dpicked up votes for being lazy, and the votes on Dylan are odd and seem kind of random.
Faust’s explanation of the DatSwan vote is most interesting to me, but now he’s voting for Dylan instead but I’m not sure why. Swans most recent post is also about set up. Those are the kinds of things I have posted in the past because newb. Swan is way more experienced than that...a “fuming magician”, if you will.
Vote: DatSwan
I also find EFHWs hard lean into PPS somewhat scummy, but I get the sense that is maybe part of the way she plays since “tenacious” has been used as a descriptor.
"I don't find the cases compelling" is just a way to express "I don't want to look scummy by being the 4th on wagon". WCD does not have any actual reads on those people that convince her to not vote for them. Instead, she tries to start a new wagon, and hopes to lure me into it by referring to a very early D1 read that I just explained. That was not a particularly great vote by me, and it is still not a particularly good case now, and her voting DatSwan just seems like a mixture of avoiding the major wagons and trying to buddy me up.
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Vote count 1.5
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am. This is in 28,5 hrs.
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As for chairs/hypercube, I don't agree with the cases made by Joseph (#129) and PPS (#238). Would you like to tell me what your case is, Awaclus?
What, exactly, do you disagree with? My case is concise, irrefutable, and targets precisely the sort of play we don't wish to see.
If I identified it correctly, your case was given as part of a reply to e:
Interesting you just weighed in on this. You don't think chairs was being quite the scummy scum for lining up the lynches and queueing faust for later since hey, he's alive, so he must be scum and then saying my case on him must be scummy because I think if we believe someone might be scum we should lynch them now instead of later?
Let me try to make it concise:
1. chairs is lining up the lynches
2. chairs says that if faust is alive after a few days he must be scum
3. chairs then said that your faust case was scummy because it's day 1 [I struggled to make your third point concise, hopefully I haven't misrepresented you too much here?]
Is that the case you are would like me to describe my disagreement about?
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And in other news, my word, what a lot to read up on since I was last here. I'm not used to having to catch up!
I'm glad I took a break, though, I was getting kind of addicted and needed to get away for a bit for my own sanity.
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Nah, scums, don't listen to that guy. I'm sure you can get me mislynched D4, no need to kill me!
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
Less than 24 hours to deadline, wouldn't necessarily call that a quicklynch.
And sure.
Vote: Robz
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
Vote: Robz
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
Ugh says the guy with a solo vote...why don’t you comment on the wcd/efhw wagons quickly
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Anyway I think the WCD wagon could use more momentum at this point.
"I don't find the cases compelling" is just a way to express "I don't want to look scummy by being the 4th on wagon". WCD does not have any actual reads on those people that convince her to not vote for them. Instead, she tries to start a new wagon, and hopes to lure me into it by referring to a very early D1 read that I just explained. That was not a particularly great vote by me, and it is still not a particularly good case now, and her voting DatSwan just seems like a mixture of avoiding the major wagons and trying to buddy me up.
No, " I don't find these cases compelling" means that I don't find these cases compelling. They weren't based on arguments as much as gut feels and limited information. I couldn't see a good reason to vote for those folks and tried to articulate that. I don't think that is avoiding the major wagons as much trying to vote with information instead of randomly.
I did, however, think your argument about Swan actually had some degree of utility. Not an iron-clad case, but it seems like D1 is pretty much devoid of much good information so something is better than nothing. I am not sure how that would be buddying you since 1. I get the distinct sense that you don't care much for me or how I play so I don't think you'd be open to being pals and 2. your vote was already on someone else for a less compelling reason and I did nothing to try to recruit you to my way of thinking.
If someone using arguments that you or others have made about folks as a basis for their vote is scummy, it seems like that would make just about everyone scum at some point or another.
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not his town meta to convince people to be productive and share info.
It is my town meta to convince people to be productive and share info that helps town and doesn't help scum.
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1. I get the distinct sense that you don't care much for me or how I play so I don't think you'd be open to being pals
I am sorry you feel that way. I certainly do not mind your playstyle, and I thought you did pretty well in the first game we played together, and from what I can tell you seem to be an enjoyable person. It's just that I think you are scum here, I have no problem whatsoever with you personally.
If someone using arguments that you or others have made about folks as a basis for their vote is scummy, it seems like that would make just about everyone scum at some point or another.
I have not said this, you have distorted what I said in order to make it look ridiculous.
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
Ugh says the guy with a solo vote...why don’t you comment on the wcd/efhw wagons quickly
Don’t really want to lynch either
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
You're already on there you know.
I don't assume you managed to locate my question to you in the meantime?
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I have not said this, you have distorted what I said in order to make it look ridiculous.
First, thank you for your kind words. My sense of people is not the best in this communication medium.
Second, I summarized, not distorted. The essence of your argument is that by using your reasoning to vote for Swan I was scummy, trying to buddy you, and attempting to stay off of the existing wagons. I have explained that I didn't like those wagons because they didn't seem to have good reasons, and I was not buddying you. You say that you didn't make a very good argument about Swan and since I used it to vote, that I am suspicious. I didn't think it was the best argument, but I thought was it better than anything else out there at the time. If this is the sum total of why you think I am scum, I do find it absurd. That I am not generally able to come up with compelling arguments on my own is a function of being newish to the game, but I do have some ability to evaluate arguments that others make. The only way that is scummy is if you are looking for reasons to think me scummy.
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The only way that is scummy is if you are looking for reasons to think me scummy.
So that means that I am scum? So why do you not vote for me?
You can of course explain this other ways than it seems to you. You can say you did not join those wagons because noone posted good reasons for them (though I would advise you that this in general should not be something to keep you from voting) Of course I cannot trust that your explanations are correct. I have explained how your action make sense for scum!WCD. Now you may know that you are not scum, but you should realize that it can be read as scummy. Calling my scumread "absurd" certainly does nothing to dissuade me from it.
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If it makes people more comfortable voting for WCD I can also make a case. It has been going decently without one so far though, and that is nice.
I love cases, they make arguing against lynches so much easier.
What's wrong with lynches?
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
You're already on there you know.
I don't assume you managed to locate my question to you in the meantime?
No what was it (please just repost- on phone and hard to search)
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And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then
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BTW, we definiteky get a lynch even without a majority vote. So throwing votes on someone just to get the hammer (like usually happens) won't be necessary
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vote: Joseph
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Townreads most definitely help town when I'm town
So... have you posted any?
, and posting townreads has hurt me as scum
Ah, is that why?
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Wow, I should go on holiday more often to get townread :-P
Back now, skimmed a bit of what's going on, but will have to re-read tomorrow to form actual opinions and stuff. Night night!
You've been posting even less since you've been back.
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
You're already on there you know.
I don't assume you managed to locate my question to you in the meantime?
No what was it (please just repost- on phone and hard to search)
Can you point me to a post from you before LaLight pointed you to the link with the win conditions that shows that you knew the town win condition?
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The only way that is scummy is if you are looking for reasons to think me scummy.
So that means that I am scum? So why do you not vote for me?
I'm not saying that it makes you scummy. I am saying that if you are looking for reasons to find me scummy then it makes sense, but if you are looking at my posts on face, they are not scummy for the reasons you have stated (using someone else's arguments). Its seems more like confirmation bias than anything else.
I don't think you are scummy for your conclusion-- it seemed to have started with "meh" which I think is generally a good description of my play. I just don't think you are reading me fairly.
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BTW, we definiteky get a lynch even without a majority vote. So throwing votes on someone just to get the hammer (like usually happens) won't be necessary
It will because this process would lead to people being lynched without having the chance to claim, which we absolutely want to avoid.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
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The only way that is scummy is if you are looking for reasons to think me scummy.
So that means that I am scum? So why do you not vote for me?
I'm not saying that it makes you scummy. I am saying that if you are looking for reasons to find me scummy then it makes sense, but if you are looking at my posts on face, they are not scummy for the reasons you have stated (using someone else's arguments). Its seems more like confirmation bias than anything else.
I don't think you are scummy for your conclusion-- it seemed to have started with "meh" which I think is generally a good description of my play. I just don't think you are reading me fairly.
Well I am telling you now that I have had all those thoughts before voting for you. I did not look for reasons to find you scummy, I read along and came to the conclusion that you are scum.
So you seem to be of the opinion that this cannot be, that I must have gone looking for stuff. I am telling you know, that's not waht happened. So by your argument, I am lying and thus scum.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
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The only way that is scummy is if you are looking for reasons to think me scummy.
So that means that I am scum? So why do you not vote for me?
I'm not saying that it makes you scummy. I am saying that if you are looking for reasons to find me scummy then it makes sense, but if you are looking at my posts on face, they are not scummy for the reasons you have stated (using someone else's arguments). Its seems more like confirmation bias than anything else.
I don't think you are scummy for your conclusion-- it seemed to have started with "meh" which I think is generally a good description of my play. I just don't think you are reading me fairly.
Well I am telling you now that I have had all those thoughts before voting for you. I did not look for reasons to find you scummy, I read along and came to the conclusion that you are scum.
So you seem to be of the opinion that this cannot be, that I must have gone looking for stuff. I am telling you now, that's not what happened. So by your argument, I am lying and thus scum.
Sorry, that post was a bit messy. I cleaned it up here.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
I like a Robz lynch just a bit more than a WCD lynch. But really, I'm happy with either. I would also vote Joseph, but that's more out of being miffed than from seeing anything as particularly scummy.
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Well I am telling you now that I have had all those thoughts before voting for you. I did not look for reasons to find you scummy, I read along and came to the conclusion that you are scum.
So you seem to be of the opinion that this cannot be, that I must have gone looking for stuff. I am telling you know, that's not waht happened. So by your argument, I am lying and thus scum.
I can't answer your feelings, only the arguments. I don't think there is a good argument for finding me scummy. I don't think you are lying (maybe I am just uncomfortable with that term) about your impression, but rather that it is unfair to say that I was trying to buddy you, avoid the crummy wagons, or that I was wrong for using an argument that someone else generated as my reason for voting.
As to my wagon....Awaclus has provided zero information about his decision, same with EFHW when she was on me, and hypercube's reason consisted of something along the lines of "I don't usually do that" so it is not a terribly compelling case. Others have said its a bad wagon, so it seems either scummy or lazy to target me when there are actual scum to be found.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
I like a Robz lynch just a bit more than a WCD lynch. But really, I'm happy with either. I would also vote Joseph, but that's more out of being miffed than from seeing anything as particularly scummy.
This is very strange, I like the robz lynch much better than the wcd lynch but that’s because I think wcd is town. You are a primary pusher of the wcd lynch and you now things robz is scummier based of lurking and his quicklynch comment???
This feels like the robz lynch is way more defensible than the wcd lynch from scum!efhw’s perspective and so she’s is willing to lynch either but going to join the momentum based bandwagon wagon
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I don't think there is a good argument for finding me scummy.
Finding you scummy is the default. Is there a good argument for finding you towny?
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
I like a Robz lynch just a bit more than a WCD lynch. But really, I'm happy with either. I would also vote Joseph, but that's more out of being miffed than from seeing anything as particularly scummy.
I think I'd like to join your club EFHW.
I'd like to read through Robz and WCD again, but I don't recall seeing anything to disuade me from voting for either of them.
I expect to be back on later today.
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In the end it seems best to just go back to vote: Joseph. Can't go wrong with that. Worst case, we lynch the SK.
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And request prod on Space. Their only vote this game has been RVS.
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I think I'd like to join your club EFHW.
I'd like to read through Robz and WCD again, but I don't recall seeing anything to disuade me from voting for either of them.
I expect to be back on later today.
Gads, Fang, seriously? You have only thought me town up until now and EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote. Look back...she agreed with Faust's "meh" comment and that was it. That's persuasive to you?
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EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote.
You haven't articulated any reason for why she shouldn't be voting for you.
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I think I'd like to join your club EFHW.
I'd like to read through Robz and WCD again, but I don't recall seeing anything to disuade me from voting for either of them.
I expect to be back on later today.
Gads, Fang, seriously? You have only thought me town up until now and EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote. Look back...she agreed with Faust's "meh" comment and that was it. That's persuasive to you?
Agreed, “i’d like to join your club” is also a super scummy sounding way to say I agree with you. Might I say day one partner call?
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
I like a Robz lynch just a bit more than a WCD lynch. But really, I'm happy with either. I would also vote Joseph, but that's more out of being miffed than from seeing anything as particularly scummy.
This is very strange, I like the robz lynch much better than the wcd lynch but that’s because I think wcd is town. You are a primary pusher of the wcd lynch and you now things robz is scummier based of lurking and his quicklynch comment???
This feels like the robz lynch is way more defensible than the wcd lynch from scum!efhw’s perspective and so she’s is willing to lynch either but going to join the momentum based bandwagon wagon
What are your thoughts about this, Fang?
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Might I say that I would also be fine with lynching mcmc?
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EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote.
You haven't articulated any reason for why she shouldn't be voting for you.
I fell like she has based on general tone and genuine attempts to develop reads. Also from a
Meta argument wcd reads very similar to how she played in newbie mafia 12 where I pegged her as town right away from the specy before I joined the game.
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Might I say that I would also be fine with lynching mcmc?
Is it because of the parter call because I know you love those
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I don't think there is a good argument for finding me scummy.
Finding you scummy is the default. Is there a good argument for finding you towny?
The best argument for finding me towny, by your standards, is that I am trying to find scum and trying to help town. For example, I am engaging with others and not avoiding participation, I am trying to keep town from wasting a lynch on me-- unless the goal is just to winnow the number of town players to a manageable level, and I am attempting to identify what I think are good arguments, what are specious arguments, and when there is no argument about various folks. I am as authentic and transparent as I know how to be, including admitting my inadequacies. While I am sometimes too casual in my language, or fluffy in my comments (but the daylight savings tie thing is interesting!) there is nothing about my play that is disingenuous, shifty, or inconsistent.
PPE: a couple
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I had to change my avatar because Meckie was freaking me out. He's supposed to be a friendly hedgehog, but looks more like the things that nightmares are made of.
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And request prod on Space. Their only vote this game has been RVS.
Sent.
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I fell like she has based on general tone and genuine attempts to develop reads. Also from a
Meta argument wcd reads very similar to how she played in newbie mafia 12 where I pegged her as town right away from the specy before I joined the game.
Are you her scum partner?
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Vote: mcmc
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I don't think there is a good argument for finding me scummy.
Finding you scummy is the default. Is there a good argument for finding you towny?
The best argument for finding me towny, by your standards, is that I am trying to find scum and trying to help town. For example, I am engaging with others and not avoiding participation, I am trying to keep town from wasting a lynch on me-- unless the goal is just to winnow the number of town players to a manageable level, and I am attempting to identify what I think are good arguments, what are specious arguments, and when there is no argument about various folks. I am as authentic and transparent as I know how to be, including admitting my inadequacies. While I am sometimes too casual in my language, or fluffy in my comments (but the daylight savings tie thing is interesting!) there is nothing about my play that is disingenuous, shifty, or inconsistent.
PPE: a couple
I wasn't expecting the WCD wagon to have fallen apart so quickly, but this is a pretty good answer to Awaclus' question; it seems honest. I think I like the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon, This:
BTW, we definiteky get a lynch even without a majority vote. So throwing votes on someone just to get the hammer (like usually happens) won't be necessary
is more setup talk, and plurality lynches seem bad not only because of the potential lack of a chance to claim but also because we'd get more useful voting analysis later out of a majority vote.
PPE 2
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Forgot to vote: Joseph
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I'm not obligated to give reasons for my votes. But here is one of the reasons for voting WCD:
Watching the PPS/EFHW dustup is interesting. I wonder why they are so at odds with one another.
I'm not comfortable with this post. We aren't "at odds with each other". I voted him for a reasonable reason and he has been defending himself. This characterization puts us in equivalent positions, which is not accurate and implicitly weakens my position.
The other reasons are lack of scumhunting and repeated use of the newbie card.
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Regarding Robz, you might remember this:
Oh, this game started! I am VLA this weekend, attending a wedding.
vote: Robz
Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched. His last scum game he got away with a lot, and was aware of that.
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Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched.
Sounds like a very stupid game plan.
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Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched.
Sounds like a very stupid game plan.
What's your narrative to explain how he is playing?
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Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched.
Sounds like a very stupid game plan.
What's your narrative to explain how he is playing?
Robz just doesn’t do D1. I generally don’t either although I am partial to RMM where I just want to get a flip and some night results. It is more important in regular Mafia. At any rate, I don’t think it is a réalisable tell. However, his activity in following days often is.
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
You're already on there you know.
I don't assume you managed to locate my question to you in the meantime?
No what was it (please just repost- on phone and hard to search)
Can you point me to a post from you before LaLight pointed you to the link with the win conditions that shows that you knew the town win condition?
Reply #61 is the town win condition
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My recommendation is that we should be treating an "on guillotine" player as an "on guillotine" player.
There's a certain point later in the game where they could become an IC though
Because the town win condition is to have 2 mafia dead + 1 on the guillotine.
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I don't think there is a good argument for finding me scummy.
Finding you scummy is the default. Is there a good argument for finding you towny?
The best argument for finding me towny, by your standards, is that I am trying to find scum and trying to help town. For example, I am engaging with others and not avoiding participation, I am trying to keep town from wasting a lynch on me-- unless the goal is just to winnow the number of town players to a manageable level, and I am attempting to identify what I think are good arguments, what are specious arguments, and when there is no argument about various folks. I am as authentic and transparent as I know how to be, including admitting my inadequacies. While I am sometimes too casual in my language, or fluffy in my comments (but the daylight savings tie thing is interesting!) there is nothing about my play that is disingenuous, shifty, or inconsistent.
PPE: a couple
I wasn't expecting the WCD wagon to have fallen apart so quickly, but this is a pretty good answer to Awaclus' question; it seems honest. I think I like the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon, This:
BTW, we definiteky get a lynch even without a majority vote. So throwing votes on someone just to get the hammer (like usually happens) won't be necessary
is more setup talk, and plurality lynches seem bad not only because of the potential lack of a chance to claim but also because we'd get more useful voting analysis later out of a majority vote.
PPE 2
I like setup talk. Better than doing crap all on D1
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Argh.. I've apparently become proddable :-( Sorry! I read some stuff last night, but possibly wasn't awake enough for posting. At work just now, so not really at liberty to read, though I'll see what i can do, given that I don't actually have any scheduled free time between now and deadline, save maybe 30 mins of tomorrow's lunch break...
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Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched.
Sounds like a very stupid game plan.
What's your narrative to explain how he is playing?
He's bored of D1 and wants it to end.
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Coupled with the call to quicklynch, I'm imagining that he is testing to see how uninvolved and provocative he can be and still not get lynched.
Sounds like a very stupid game plan.
What's your narrative to explain how he is playing?
He's bored of D1 and wants it to end.
Aren't we all?
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Usually D1 has some setup discussion and some people trying to break/optimise the setup.
But this D1 has had literally none of that, because there doesn't seem like much to discuss
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vote count please
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so...plurality lynch today?
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Space Count
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
(That is to say I'm reading and catching up, and wanted to get my vote counter set up for this game).
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I know faust is miffed at me for not having voted a bunch, but actually I'm quite happy with my vote being on Joseph right now.
In particular, when commenting about chairs being a lynch option, how was "It's an option. Currently the most preferred option" ever a valid sort of statement to make as town when most people haven't stated a preference?I dislike this because it's manipulative, projecting his preferred view as the popular opinion.. but then I don't tend to find Joseph to be good useful town anyway (which is why I'm happy throwing early votes his way). Compare to e's response at #236, which us much more conscious of scope.
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@hypercube, have we played together before? Your name isn't in my looking dictionary for people and their popular aliases, meaning you haven't played in a game I've used my vote counter on.. plus your avatar doesn't look at all familiar. Though nor does WCD's now, which is also going to throw me!
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Townreads most definitely help town when I'm town
So... have you posted any?
Probably not, but it's not posting my townreads that help me, it's other people's, and those were the things Awaclus was calling untownie.
, and posting townreads has hurt me as scum
Ah, is that why?
This is the more obvious one, to me. If I post townreads on a bunch of people, then it makes my play rather illogical if I push for lynching them in too much of a different order to what I clearly favoured, so it adds extra constraints to myself that I wouldn't have had if I hadn't made my preferences clear. People with different play-styles may find it easier to change their minds a whole bunch, but I'm someone who plays based on as much accumulated evidence as possible, so it seems hard for scum!me to argue to disregard earlier evidence.
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Wow, I should go on holiday more often to get townread :-P
Back now, skimmed a bit of what's going on, but will have to re-read tomorrow to form actual opinions and stuff. Night night!
You've been posting even less since you've been back.
Yeah, but I feel a lot more guilty now :-( I had an unexpected deadline to stay late for at work yesterday, and I was hosting board games night this evening. The deadline is 2pm our time, so that aligns nicely with the end of my lunchbreak.
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Sorry for changing my avatar on you, Space. You probably haven’t played with Hyper cube before...he is also new. I met him in my first NM game.
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Very sleepy summary of what I think of most of the other players.. I've been going backwards through people in order of who's made the most game posts since the start of D1:
I have more posts since the start of the game than Robz and Datswan combined.
Dylan has also posted less than me, but he looks middlingly townie so far from what he has posted.
High posters are faust, Fang and WCD. Happy to leave those three be for now.
PPS has been reading the setup, so if he's scum he's sure to slip :-P I don't think he's a good lynch candidate for D1, though I'm trying not to let his alleged townread on me get the better of me.
mcmc has twice the number of posts I do, and yet hasn't really engaged much with his brother, which may be out of character? A load of his posts were short things during his early DAMA. Other seem at least a bit scum-hunty.
Awaclus might be even more of a broken record this game than other recent games. I think there's nothing that screams town to me from him yet. He's probably the only one of the upper-half posters I'd be happy wagonning.
EFHW's tangle with PPS was interesting, but does it really make either one of them particularly more or less likely to be scum conditioned on the other's flip? They're both experienced players capable of manufacturing interactions as necessary, I think. Anyway, not feeling the EFHW wagon just yet.
Gah.. falling asleep typing this, and very aware it's rather lacking, so more tomorrow instead...
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It’s been a day, so sleep calls. I’ll be around tomorrow for 2 or 3 hours before deadline.
I appreciate space’s rundown, but I don’t have the bandwidth to process right now. Mañana.
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I may not be around tomorrow, so vote: Joseph.
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Vote: Robz
Currently the 3 biggest wagons are me, Robz and EFHW.
I'm scum (as in on team Green, because scum in this game = town in other games), and of the other two, I think EFHW is more towny
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@hypercube, have we played together before? Your name isn't in my looking dictionary for people and their popular aliases, meaning you haven't played in a game I've used my vote counter on.. plus your avatar doesn't look at all familiar. Though nor does WCD's now, which is also going to throw me!
You are right that we haven't played together before; I've only played in NM12 and NM13 previously.
I'm just checking in; I'm happy with where my vote is right now. I'll be around for an hour or so before the deadline.
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I'll try to be around at deadline, depending on how work goes
PPE: 1
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Vote count 1.6
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube, EFHW
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am. This is in 6 hrs.
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I think I'd like to join your club EFHW.
I'd like to read through Robz and WCD again, but I don't recall seeing anything to disuade me from voting for either of them.
I expect to be back on later today.
Gads, Fang, seriously? You have only thought me town up until now and EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote. Look back...she agreed with Faust's "meh" comment and that was it. That's persuasive to you?
Agreed, “i’d like to join your club” is also a super scummy sounding way to say I agree with you. Might I say day one partner call?
Sounds like a very useful dictionary you have there. Would you mind looking up 'Gads' ?
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Wow, I should go on holiday more often to get townread :-P
Back now, skimmed a bit of what's going on, but will have to re-read tomorrow to form actual opinions and stuff. Night night!
You've been posting even less since you've been back.
Yeah, but I feel a lot more guilty now :-( I had an unexpected deadline to stay late for at work yesterday, and I was hosting board games night this evening. The deadline is 2pm our time, so that aligns nicely with the end of my lunchbreak.
I'm sorry for making you feel guilty.
In fact I'm gradually realising that this game is a marathon, not a sprint. I've been going at it too fast. So yeh, sorry to anyone who feels I've been pressuring them into posting more than they were comfortable with. Keep your life balance.
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Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
So why do you break up a perfectly fine wagon if you're willing to go back anyway?
I like a Robz lynch just a bit more than a WCD lynch. But really, I'm happy with either. I would also vote Joseph, but that's more out of being miffed than from seeing anything as particularly scummy.
This is very strange, I like the robz lynch much better than the wcd lynch but that’s because I think wcd is town. You are a primary pusher of the wcd lynch and you now things robz is scummier based of lurking and his quicklynch comment???
This feels like the robz lynch is way more defensible than the wcd lynch from scum!efhw’s perspective and so she’s is willing to lynch either but going to join the momentum based bandwagon wagon
What are your thoughts about this, Fang?
My thoughts are primarily that EFHW has been towney this game. I've gone back and read you (WCD) and Robz and think that at the time of EFHW's switch I find you marginally more lynchable than Robz. Barely anything in it though, like Null for Robz because I've no idea, and slightly scummy for you.
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Since then, I thought your #375 was a good solid towney response.
Would vote Robz if necessary, would not vote EFHW, very happy being on Joseph.
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And where are we... 5 hours before deadline. I'm going to be off for a bit, but should be available sporadically during the hour or so up to the deadline.
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Going back to vote: Robz. My vote on Joseph was more annoyance than scumread.
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15 minutes and we have a coin flip lynch.
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Wait, I can't read. We have a few hours left
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Okay, I'll try vote: Robz too.
The wagon on Joseph is a bit weird: faust, who pretty much knows everyone and is a very skilled player, and two newbies who presumably don't have too much of a handle on everyone's meta yet. I'm kind of curious why faust's sticking there without there being any strong cases.
OTOH, Robz is a total non-entity. The only worry here is that if he's not showing up for D1, then having him dead-but-interacting in D2 isn't a good way to increase engagement.
Actually, I'd like to try vote: Awaclus because I feel like his play has been perhaps more extreme than usual in pushing his own opinions on how to play.
PPE 2
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I think awaclus has been very reasonable and protown today, don't like voting for him
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Going back to vote: Robz. My vote on Joseph was more annoyance than scumread.
And this vote isn't?
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Actually, I'd like to try vote: Awaclus because I feel like his play has been perhaps more extreme than usual in pushing his own opinions on how to play.
This is bad. We do not even know whether Awaclus will be back before the deadline, and we should not lynch without claims. If you want to campaign for Awaclus you should have done so sooner.
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The wagon on Joseph is a bit weird: faust, who pretty much knows everyone and is a very skilled player, and two newbies who presumably don't have too much of a handle on everyone's meta yet. I'm kind of curious why faust's sticking there without there being any strong cases.
Who said their aren't any strong cases on Joseph?
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That whole post by Space is very dodgy.
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That whole post by Space is very dodgy.
I agree, and would actually switch to them, but I don't want to move my vote and it not count.
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I won't be around for the deadline, getting my wisdom teeth out today and I get to the dentist office in about an hour.
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I won't be around for the deadline, getting my wisdom teeth out today and I get to the dentist office in about an hour.
Good luck!
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That whole post by Space is very dodgy.
I agree, and would actually switch to them, but I don't want to move my vote and it not count.
and by not count, i mean not be helpful toward a lynch
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Around for another hour maybe deadline too. Hate the Joseph wagon, think he is clearly town. Space is looking pretty dodgy. Question, then, is why be dodgy unless there’s a scum about to be lynched. Makes me feel better about one of the two we have on the block. Robz is not a super useful wagon for tomorrow. It’s a fantastic Lynch if he is scum, though. I won’t assist on Joseph but would push through on Space.
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Vote count 1.7
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am. This is in 2,5 hrs.
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I think I'd like to join your club EFHW.
I'd like to read through Robz and WCD again, but I don't recall seeing anything to disuade me from voting for either of them.
I expect to be back on later today.
Gads, Fang, seriously? You have only thought me town up until now and EFHW hasn't articulated any reason to for her vote. Look back...she agreed with Faust's "meh" comment and that was it. That's persuasive to you?
Agreed, “i’d like to join your club” is also a super scummy sounding way to say I agree with you. Might I say day one partner call?
Sounds like a very useful dictionary you have there. Would you mind looking up 'Gads' ?
It’s very similar to “good gravy!” The interweb says “used to express surprise or dismay”.
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Space I'd be okay with. But seems like the most likely options are {me, EFHW, Robz}. And out of those three, I prefer Robz
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As I'm still at risk of being lynched, I don't plan to switch my vote. Unless people take their votes off me, then I could be tempted to switch to Space
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I’m around until deadline, but I’ll put this here in case I get busy. I find the whole “he doesn’t do D1” rather remarkable.
Vote: Robz
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I won't be around for the deadline, getting my wisdom teeth out today and I get to the dentist office in about an hour.
Good luck! I hope it’s as quick and painless as it can be, and that you don’t lose any actual wisdom.
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I’m around until deadline, but I’ll put this here in case I get busy. I find the whole “he doesn’t do D1” rather remarkable.
Vote: Robz
Well two of the people up for guillotining don't do D1, as I don't really do it either. But at least I've tried to contribute....
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All the scumsters lining up to lynch Robz...
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Actually, I'd like to try vote: Awaclus because I feel like his play has been perhaps more extreme than usual in pushing his own opinions on how to play.
This is bad. We do not even know whether Awaclus will be back before the deadline, and we should not lynch without claims. If you want to campaign for Awaclus you should have done so sooner.
I find that to be a very interesting post by faust.
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Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
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Actually, I'd like to try vote: Awaclus because I feel like his play has been perhaps more extreme than usual in pushing his own opinions on how to play.
This is bad. We do not even know whether Awaclus will be back before the deadline, and we should not lynch without claims. If you want to campaign for Awaclus you should have done so sooner.
I find that to be a very interesting post by faust.
Space moving from a viable wagon to someone without many votes this late is more interesting.
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The wagon on Joseph is a bit weird: faust, who pretty much knows everyone and is a very skilled player, and two newbies who presumably don't have too much of a handle on everyone's meta yet. I'm kind of curious why faust's sticking there without there being any strong cases.
Who said their aren't any strong cases on Joseph?
My personal opinion, speaking as someone who probably has an anti-Joseph bias because of how unpredictable and low-utility his town play can be.
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Actually, I'd like to try vote: Awaclus because I feel like his play has been perhaps more extreme than usual in pushing his own opinions on how to play.
This is bad. We do not even know whether Awaclus will be back before the deadline, and we should not lynch without claims. If you want to campaign for Awaclus you should have done so sooner.
I find that to be a very interesting post by faust.
Space moving from a viable wagon to someone without many votes this late is more interesting.
I'm active and able to move back, so moving and seeing how others react is indeed interesting.
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Space is looking pretty dodgy.
That's a bit of an about-turn... Weren't you picking up a vote or two earlier for asserting my towniness? Were my few hasty posts enough to wipe out your townread?
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Vote: SpaceAnemone
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4 people have expressed interest, currently the major wagon is at 4 votes, we can do this.
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Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
Wait, can you explain this to me? WCD moved from voting you to voting you from #301 onwards to voting Robz at #432, and your response is to move to Joseph instead?
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4 people have expressed interest, currently the major wagon is at 4 votes, we can do this.
Terrible plan. There is zero reason to lynch me, and at best the 4 votes you're pulling onto me break up the existing lynch wagons.
Town: if this turns into a lynch, please look back at this after I've flipped as decent evidence to vote faust, because him not behaving logically is the biggest scumtell I've found for him!
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Vote: Robz seems to be a thing faust was distracting from, so let's try that.
Where is everyone else? We're not going to get a full lynch through without additional participation.
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I don’t understand the votes on Space. Is it because she voted for Awa rather out of the blue at a late time? Isn’t that what Faust is doing now, too, in voting for space?
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I don’t understand the votes on Space. Is it because she voted for Awa rather out of the blue at a late time? Isn’t that what Faust is doing now, too, in voting for space?
Space voting Awaclus had very little chance of succeeding. And if it did, it would have resulted in a lynch of a player that couldn't claim. Both things are not the case with Space.
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I'm here. It would nice to have Swan around as he was very good town in the last game we played together. I'm not sure if his relative lack of participation here means anything, is he more likely to be disengaged as scum?
Anyways I'm going to do a quick reread of Space.
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4 people have expressed interest, currently the major wagon is at 4 votes, we can do this.
Terrible plan. There is zero reason to lynch me, and at best the 4 votes you're pulling onto me break up the existing lynch wagons.
Town: if this turns into a lynch, please look back at this after I've flipped as decent evidence to vote faust, because him not behaving logically is the biggest scumtell I've found for him!
You are the one who is not behaving logically. What reason is there not to lynch you?
Also, calling out to town to do something after you are lynched is pretty pointless considering you could still say all that tomorrow, you will still be alive. It's just AtE.
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I don’t understand the votes on Space. Is it because she voted for Awa rather out of the blue at a late time? Isn’t that what Faust is doing now, too, in voting for space?
The expression of vote-readiness from PPS is interesting, because if he is scum, then it's exactly what I was saying earlier about how expressing townreads on someone can cause unwanted scrutiny later when you want to boost the popularity of a mislynch.
I don't get what faust is doing. It's possible that with my sudden lack of time, I just played badly and he thinks it's scummy of me, given that he knows my level of play quite well. OTOH, if he's actually scum, I'm someone he might want rid of, though there are other arguably stronger targets, like Robz and mcmc.
PPE 3
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Vote: Robz seems to be a thing faust was distracting from, so let's try that.
Silly. If I wanted to avoid a Robz lynch so bad, I wouldn't move off the main opposing wagon.
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4 people have expressed interest, currently the major wagon is at 4 votes, we can do this.
Terrible plan. There is zero reason to lynch me, and at best the 4 votes you're pulling onto me break up the existing lynch wagons.
Town: if this turns into a lynch, please look back at this after I've flipped as decent evidence to vote faust, because him not behaving logically is the biggest scumtell I've found for him!
You are the one who is not behaving logically. What reason is there not to lynch you?
Also, calling out to town to do something after you are lynched is pretty pointless considering you could still say all that tomorrow, you will still be alive. It's just AtE.
I don't flip till after I'm dead, though, right? So I'll be around but not confirmed innocent till after I can't talk, and therefore it's entirely justifiable to want to put a note there so that once the evidence that I'm town is actually revealed then they realise it's evidence against you.
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I'm around.
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I'm around.
Good.
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It looks like it's over 24 hours since Swan and Dylan have checked in, and closing in on 24 hours for Robz as well.
Request prods on Swan and Dylan.
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It looks like it's over 24 hours since Swan and Dylan have checked in, and closing in on 24 hours for Robz as well.
Request prods on Swan and Dylan.
It's also 50 minutes to deadline. I don't think Robz becomes proddable before day end.
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It looks like it's over 24 hours since Swan and Dylan have checked in, and closing in on 24 hours for Robz as well.
Request prods on Swan and Dylan.
It's also 50 minutes to deadline. I don't think Robz becomes proddable before day end.
I think he does, by about 22.5 minutes, unless my crude "who's proddable" script (which is a WiP because I hate date formats) is pulling dates out incorrectly...
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Back in ~15 minutes: I have to go buy some actual food during my lunch break...
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Vote count please
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Space seems a little erratic to me, moving votes and their opinion around a lot. Maybe they're doing some high-level scumhunting but I don't really see the threads. Also they've spent a lot of time being vocally suspicious of faust without ever voting for him. I think I like voting for them more than voting for Robz, but less than voting for Joseph.
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I’m here, I prefer space to Joseph and robz, still prefer efhw to everyone.
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Vote count 1.8
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am. This is in 35 minutes.
Request prods on Swan and Dylan.
Sent.
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Ok let's see if we can get more of a consensus on Space vote:Space
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vote: Space with a space this time
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I’m here, I prefer space to Joseph and robz, still prefer efhw to everyone.
EFHW isn't happening.
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vote: space
I can speak somewhat to robz having been insanely busy in the last week or so. So part of his absence has definitely been due to that.
What he has posted has still been typical unhelpful early game robz play which comes from both town!robz and scum!robz but it is certainly a coin flip lynch.
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I found Space's #402 post pretty towny and helpful. I don't see her being scummy this morning as much as kind of random. Which is pretty much my way of being in the world.
Robz is null to me, but since its not helpful to not play, my vote is there now.
I'd prefer to vote EFHW, and now I think there is a distinct chance she is working with faust.
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I don't have a preference between Space and Robz.
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I found Space's #402 post pretty towny and helpful. I don't see her being scummy this morning as much as kind of random. Which is pretty much my way of being in the world.
Robz is null to me, but since its not helpful to not play, my vote is there now.
I'd prefer to vote EFHW, and now I think there is a distinct chance she is working with faust.
Then join me back on efhw. She has bounced between the robz and Joseph wagons, I feel like she has had lots of wagon joining votes with weak reasons signifying scum pretty willing to just aid in the lynch of any towny getting some votes.
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vote: efhw
I will move back to space if needed over robz/joseph
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I found Space's #402 post pretty towny and helpful. I don't see her being scummy this morning as much as kind of random. Which is pretty much my way of being in the world.
Robz is null to me, but since its not helpful to not play, my vote is there now.
I'd prefer to vote EFHW, and now I think there is a distinct chance she is working with faust.
Then join me back on efhw. She has bounced between the robz and Joseph wagons, I feel like she has had lots of wagon joining votes with weak reasons signifying scum pretty willing to just aid in the lynch of any towny getting some votes.
No one else is feeling it, tho
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I will certainly make sure to push any of the existing wagons over EFHW.
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I think vote: Robz, prefer that slightly to Space.
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I found Space's #402 post pretty towny and helpful. I don't see her being scummy this morning as much as kind of random. Which is pretty much my way of being in the world.
Robz is null to me, but since its not helpful to not play, my vote is there now.
I'd prefer to vote EFHW, and now I think there is a distinct chance she is working with faust.
Then join me back on efhw. She has bounced between the robz and Joseph wagons, I feel like she has had lots of wagon joining votes with weak reasons signifying scum pretty willing to just aid in the lynch of any towny getting some votes.
No one else is feeling it, tho
I'd obviously move to EFHW over me!
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I think vote: Robz, prefer that slightly to Space.
^^ L-2. I'd forgotten.
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Vote: Joseph
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Request prod on Robz
Here's hoping that Space's script is correct.
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I would state again that lynching without claims is terrible.
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Request prod on Robz
Here's hoping that Space's script is correct.
I believe it is. And yes, we need Robz here.
Lynching without claims is indeed terrible, but possibly worse would be claims from multiple people who are worried that they might or might not be the lynch.
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Also they've spent a lot of time being vocally suspicious of faust without ever voting for him.
Let's be realistic: faust was not going to be today's lynch. As town, he's too valuable, and he's not got enough of a proto-wagon. However his behaviour right now towards me, knowing what I know about my own townie state of mind, is really suspicious to me.
PPE 5: sorry.. it's getting difficult to keep up because there are too many conversations happening all around me in the office that I'm expected to follow, since most of my colleagues have finished lunch.
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Request prod on Robz
Here's hoping that Space's script is correct.
It was correct, and also I checked the datestamp of his most recent post to verify (November 01, 2018, 09:37:36 am).
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Request prod on Robz
Here's hoping that Space's script is correct.
Sent.
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I'm obviously willing to go back to Joseph but it doesn't seem like anything is changing unless multiple people leave the Robz wagon.
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Also they've spent a lot of time being vocally suspicious of faust without ever voting for him.
Let's be realistic: faust was not going to be today's lynch. As town, he's too valuable, and he's not got enough of a proto-wagon. However his behaviour right now towards me, knowing what I know about my own townie state of mind, is really suspicious to me.
It's called OMGUS.
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Anyway good job scum avoiding the Joseph lynch.
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I'm obviously willing to go back to Joseph but it doesn't seem like anything is changing unless multiple people leave the Robz wagon.
It doesn't hurt.
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Vote count 1.9
Joseph2302 (2): EFHW, faust
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): hypercube
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends Friday, 2nd of November, at 10am. This is in 2 minutes.
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I'm obviously willing to go back to Joseph but it doesn't seem like anything is changing unless multiple people leave the Robz wagon.
It doesn't hurt.
True. vote: Joseph
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I more switch and we have a 50% chance!
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Thread Locked.
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Vote count 1.final
Joseph2302 (3): EFHW, faust, hypercube
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
With 14 alive, it took 6 to lynch. Robz888 was placed onto the guillotine.
Night 1 starts now and ends in 48 hours, Sunday, 4th of November, at 10:00 am.
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Special announcement:
After reading the game played with this setup before and rereading the setup a lot of times, I realized I have made a mistake in the initial understanding of it. The Impatient Vig lowers threshold by one no matter how much is needed to lynch. For example if there is 13 people (7 to lynch), after vig kill it is 12 people (6 to lynch). Sorry for the confusion, I am open to any questions (in the QT) if there are ones. I edited the initial setup post.
Sorry again and have a good night.
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"Idiots! Are you out of your mind?! What the hell happened with you?!" cried Robz888 while being dragged onto the rusty guillotine. "I am the one who gathered all you here and I am one of the fathers of this god damn city!"
Too late. Still he continued crying.
Robz888 is scum-aligned.
While everyone else was busy with Robz' claim, something happened on the other end of the town.
faust was killed. He was Mafia Goon, a Vanilla Town.
Day 2 starts now!
Vote count 2.0
Not voting (13): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, chairs
Robz888 is on the guillotine.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends Sunday, 11th of November, at 10am
Thread unlocked!
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Robz is IC. Interesting twist.
RIP faust. vote: WCD.
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Robz being IC makes it pretty obvious how bad that wagon was. EFHW had some crucial votes to keep it going:
Let’s quick lynch somebody.
vote: Robz.
Also willing to go back to WCD.
Going back to vote: Robz. My vote on Joseph was more annoyance than scumread.
then jumps off once it's clear the lynch will go through.
Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
vote: EFHW
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When WCD got on, that put Robz at 5. My moving to Joseph tied them at 4. My leaving the wagon reduced the chances Robz would be lynched.
Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon. It may even be helpful that he was lynched early, and not nk'd.
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When WCD got on, that put Robz at 5. My moving to Joseph tied them at 4. My leaving the wagon reduced the chances Robz would be lynched.
Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon. It may even be helpful that he was lynched early, and not nk'd.
Space had just indicated they would vote for Robz, and pps and E indicated they wouldn't move their votes. I think it seemed pretty clear at that point that the Robz lynch was likely to go through.
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Cool. Still traveling, back tomorrow.
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Oh wow, we get to see Robz's alignment?
That's useful and unexpected.
As Robz is town, that wagon on him must have a scum on it.
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So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Although I'm town and was the second most popular lynch target. Which means it wasn't scum at the end trying to force a mislynch and avoid a scum lynch
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I did think of the three wagons (me, EFHW, Robz) that Robz was the scummiest at the time
Maybe the Space suggestions for a wagon would have been a better option
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So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Not necessarily, right? Since it was a plurality instead of a majority, there were 6 other people with different votes in addition to Robz and faust. Once Robz lynch was assured, both EFHW and hyper jumped off and onto a wagon they knew wouldn’t make. The same with mcmc, Dylan, Awaclus, and DatSwan (not the jumping just the being on wagons going nowhere). I don’t know why scum would leave themselves on a town lynch wagon when it was going to make regardless. The VCA works much better when a majority is required to lynch.
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Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon.
This is relevant, and Robz hadn't given us any reason to think he was that townie. I assume he thought that the combination of being VLA and having a meta of being extremely absent in general would get him through D1. Personally, I'd missed that he had a several-day-long VLA posted after his slow start to the game.
I still think the lack of interaction between Robz and mcmc is a little odd, as is the fact that mcmc hid his defense of Robz in the same post as a vote for me. Those two usually know what's going on with one another, and mcmc made no mention of Robz's VLA, only that he was very busy. (Note for newbies who may not have come across this before: Robz and mcmc are real-life brothers).
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So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Not necessarily, right? Since it was a plurality instead of a majority, there were 6 other people with different votes in addition to Robz and faust. Once Robz lynch was assured, both EFHW and hyper jumped off and onto a wagon they knew wouldn’t make. The same with mcmc, Dylan, Awaclus, and DatSwan (not the jumping just the being on wagons going nowhere). I don’t know why scum would leave themselves on a town lynch wagon when it was going to make regardless. The VCA works much better when a majority is required to lynch.
While you're technically right, it would certainly be a surprise if there were no scum at all in that set. In the run-up to deadline, we usually end up voting to try to get a lynch through, and the idea of getting someone to claim before lynch had been discussed earlier, so I think that was on most people's minds. So scum probably didn't want to risk being off-wagon entirely in case random panicked townie votes settled somewhere they liked less.
For me, e is quite a strong townread, and given that Robz is IC, then PPS and Joseph are the two most likely scums. Probably not both together, though, because they joined the wagon in very quick succession (posts 404 and 405 respectively, which EFW joining at 415 as the very next vote cast) and that's an unusual voting pattern for two scum-buddies.
The other evidence from my PoV against Joseph is that he's sat with two known towns on his wagon for a while (me and faust, from #124 till faust moved at #247) and not picked up a scum trying to push a mislynch on someone who might have been quite an easy wagon. Later on, e and I are both on him with no further traction, though by that point EFHW and WCD have bigger wagons anyway.
I'd also say it's likely that at least one of Joseph and infangthief is a townie, because if they were both scum, I would have expected Fang to hope off the bigger wagon that picked up on Joseph around #381.
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(Note for newbies who may not have come across this before: Robz and mcmc are real-life brothers).
Ah, thank you!
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While you're technically right, it would certainly be a surprise if there were no scum at all in that set. In the run-up to deadline, we usually end up voting to try to get a lynch through, and the idea of getting someone to claim before lynch had been discussed earlier, so I think that was on most people's minds. So scum probably didn't want to risk being off-wagon entirely in case random panicked townie votes settled somewhere they liked less.
Ah, okay. So it’s a best guess, not a mathematical conclusion. And it makes sense that at least one scum would be there, because why not and maybe it provides insurance. Since we didn’t have to get to a lynch threshold, everything about the run up to deadline felt different to me. In retrospect, I wish I’d left my vote where it had been. I shifted my vote (forgetting there wasn’t a need for a majority), not because I thought Robz was scum but because his degree of absence provided no reason to think him town. Which while thin was more compelling to me than the Jospeh argument was mostly “he talked about setup” and the obviously weak case on me was pretty much just people following faust’s “meh”. EFHW still seems the most anti-town to me, but why was faust protecting her?
From the Robz wagon, I need to reread PPS and Fang, but the folks on the singleton votes also seem worth scrutiny.
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Yeah in reading how EoD went (sorry I wasn't here, had a meeting that went from 9 to 11 and I didn't get around early enough to log in before), I can pretty easily see scum narratives for fang, WCD, and EFHW, but not as partners. Although I just realized that they all actually involve scum!Joseph and variations on trying to bus early, then avoid the lynch or switch to him late as momentum dies on him and builds on Robz. Vote: Joseph
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Personally, I'd missed that he had a several-day-long VLA posted after his slow start to the game.
Me too. Found it now in the dedicated VLA thread. And a stern reminder at that! I just assumed people posted their VLA's in-game.
Well he's back today, good time to take on the IC mantle?
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Did no-one see it? No one mentioned it in game, as far as I saw. faust requested a couple of prods, so presumably he hadn't seen it?
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Apologies for being absent. My students took up more time than expected with the Halloween Holiday.
I will have more detail in the morning.
However, for now, the core point, for me at least... is that skum could not of known that Robz was IC (therefore they did not expect to have to deal with a Town flip on Day 2).
The main wagons seemed to be Joseph and Robz. There is no way of knowing whether or not they are BOTH town or not (something that Skum would know). So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.
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So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Although I'm town and was the second most popular lynch target. Which means it wasn't scum at the end trying to force a mislynch and avoid a scum lynch
Your last sentence here sounds like you're trying to excuse me from your scum pool. I mean, thanks, but, it seems a little contrived. You'd like to be friends?
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So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.
So let's see.
Exhibit A: Me (switched from Joseph to Robz)
Exhibit B: Space (switched from Joseph to Awaclus to Robz)
Exhibit C: EFHW (switched from Joseph to Robz back to Joseph)
Exhibit D: Awaclus (avoided both)
Exhibit E: E (switched from Joseph to Robz, but 24h before deadline)
Exhibit F: Dylan (avoided both)
Exhibit G: Mcmc (avoided both)
Exhibit H: DatSwan (avoided day 1)
8 out of 12. Good to narrow things down...
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
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Ah, okay. So it’s a best guess, not a mathematical conclusion. And it makes sense that at least one scum would be there, because why not and maybe it provides insurance. Since we didn’t have to get to a lynch threshold, everything about the run up to deadline felt different to me. In retrospect, I wish I’d left my vote where it had been. I shifted my vote (forgetting there wasn’t a need for a majority), not because I thought Robz was scum but because his degree of absence provided no reason to think him town. Which while thin was more compelling to me than the Jospeh argument was mostly “he talked about setup” and the obviously weak case on me was pretty much just people following faust’s “meh”. EFHW still seems the most anti-town to me, but why was faust protecting her?
Weak cases are still better than no case at all. If you're town and you don't have any information about someone's alignment, on D1 you should assume they have a 10/13 chance of being town. You shouldn't just avoid voting for people because someone has made a weak case against them at a time where we don't have very much information.
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So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.
So let's see.
Exhibit A: Me (switched from Joseph to Robz)
Exhibit B: Space (switched from Joseph to Awaclus to Robz)
Exhibit C: EFHW (switched from Joseph to Robz back to Joseph)
Exhibit D: Awaclus (avoided both)
Exhibit E: E (switched from Joseph to Robz, but 24h before deadline)
Exhibit F: Dylan (avoided both)
Exhibit G: Mcmc (avoided both)
Exhibit H: DatSwan (avoided day 1)
8 out of 12. Good to narrow things down...
Awaclus at least showed up before the lynch to indicate he was OK with it being Robz, which at that point was basically a tacit Robz vote.
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I voted for Robz because of his statement about quicklynching someone. As pointed out D1 by someone else, I thought it was just the thing scum!Robz might do.
That being said, it is a simple numbers game to say that scum was on the wagon, but it is also a simple numbers game to say scum was off the wagon.
I actually think plurality lynch gives us more information at the end of day than a majority lynch, because scum have all the excuses in the world to join a majority, etc. But in plurality you should be voting who you want to vote. I know I mentioned I might switch to space at EoD, but decided to stay on Robz because I thought he was the best viable lynch. I think moving to space today is a good place to be.
vote: Space
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Awaclus and myself are both town. From your very narrow pool I would then suggest focusing on WCD.
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At this point I think Space is town. I somewhat regret moving my vote to them yesterday, I think staying on Joseph and trying to convince people to move there could have been better.
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At this point I think Space is town. I somewhat regret moving my vote to them yesterday, I think staying on Joseph and trying to convince people to move there could have been better.
Hypercube and Space scum team perhaps?
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Vote: Space Seems good to me for now
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Vote: Space also seems good to me.
Can someone summarize for me what happened at the end of the previous day, how I became the choice?
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
DatSwan's recent post feels maybe a little partnery towards Joseph.
ppe 1
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
DatSwan's recent post feels maybe a little partnery towards Joseph.
ppe 1
I agree with this, and have a much bigger scumread on infangthief now.
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Vote: Space also seems good to me.
Can someone summarize for me what happened at the end of the previous day, how I became the choice?
Sure. Actually, this might be more of a play-by-play than a true summary, because that seems more useful.
At vote count 1.6, Joseph's wagon had 5 people and yours had 3, so let's start there.
#412 fang says he's very happy on Joseph, would vote for Robz if needed.
#414 EFHW goes from Joseph to Robz because they didn't actually vote for Joseph because they thought he was scummy.
#417 Space leaves Joseph to Robz, but at the end of them same post votes for Awaclus.
VC 1.7: Joseph 3, Robz 4
#432 WCD moves from EFHW (who was at 3 herself) to Robz
#437 EFHW moves back to Joseph because of #432
#442 faust moves off Joseph onto Space
#446 Space votes Robz
VC1.8: Joseph 3, Robz 5, EFHW 2, Dylan Awaclus mcmc and Space 1
next post hypercube moves off Joseph onto Space, putting both wagons at 2.
#467 mcmc moves from EFHW to Space
#471 mcmc moves back and tries to get Awaclus to join
#474 fang votes Robz, prefers it to Space
#477 faust votes Joseph from Space
#489 hypercube follows faust's advice and goes back to Joseph
#491 thread locked.
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Vote: infangthief
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Vote: infangthief
How did you get to this from your previous post?
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Post 198 from fang reminds me of something I did in (I think) NM9, when as scum I pointed out some flawed reasoning a guy was using to townread me, and basically told him not to give me town points for that. You don't see many people (especially town) actively turn away town points unless doing so has even more pro-town benefits than having someone reading you as town correctly, even though the reasons are wrong. So this seems like a very new scum post. Combined with his voting pattern at EoD and the recent stuff, I'm very happy leaving my vote on infangthief for a while, preferably until he's on guillotine.
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Awaclus and myself are both town.
Huh? How do you know that?
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
I'll admit that I got confused by the plurality lynch thing. I was trying to follow faust's advice to make a clear majority and avoid lynching without opportunity to claim and all that. But yeh, when I looked at the end of day wagon I thought why ever am I on Robz? Joseph any day.
But e's advice is much more simple:
But in plurality you should be voting who you want to vote.
No one mentioned that yesteday. Maybe it's too obvious to have needed stating.
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
I'll admit that I got confused by the plurality lynch thing. I was trying to follow faust's advice to make a clear majority and avoid lynching without opportunity to claim and all that. But yeh, when I looked at the end of day wagon I thought why ever am I on Robz? Joseph any day.
But e's advice is much more simple:
But in plurality you should be voting who you want to vote.
No one mentioned that yesteday. Maybe it's too obvious to have needed stating.
Robz was almost entirely absent, and so Robz didn't seem to have much of a chance to claim either, yet Joseph (I think) was actually around, so if avoiding the lynch without a claim was your biggest concern and Joseph was your biggest scumread, seems like you should have been on him.
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
I'll admit that I got confused by the plurality lynch thing. I was trying to follow faust's advice to make a clear majority and avoid lynching without opportunity to claim and all that. But yeh, when I looked at the end of day wagon I thought why ever am I on Robz? Joseph any day.
But e's advice is much more simple:
But in plurality you should be voting who you want to vote.
No one mentioned that yesteday. Maybe it's too obvious to have needed stating.
Robz was almost entirely absent, and so Robz didn't seem to have much of a chance to claim either, yet Joseph (I think) was actually around, so if avoiding the lynch without a claim was your biggest concern and Joseph was your biggest scumread, seems like you should have been on him.
I would have to agree with this.
I can claim now, if people would like?
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I voted Robz because of his quick lynch suggestion. 1stly that is actually scummy. 2ndly, it's the expected result when you make such suggestions. Robz knows that is scummy and I figured he was generating a wagon for some purpose. When the IC flip occurred I figured that was actually his intent which seems a bit behind the better objective of find and kill scum which he was never present enough to actually do. It would be super good if he actually made use of the fact he is an IC for a day.
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I voted Robz because of his quick lynch suggestion. 1stly that is actually scummy. 2ndly, it's the expected result when you make such suggestions. Robz knows that is scummy and I figured he was generating a wagon for some purpose. When the IC flip occurred I figured that was actually his intent which seems a bit behind the better objective of find and kill scum which he was never present enough to actually do. It would be super good if he actually made use of the fact he is an IC for a day.
I dispute that proposing a quicklynch is scummy in general or scummy for me specifically.
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Robz was almost entirely absent, and so Robz didn't seem to have much of a chance to claim either, yet Joseph (I think) was actually around, so if avoiding the lynch without a claim was your biggest concern and Joseph was your biggest scumread, seems like you should have been on him.
To avoid lynching a PR, it seemed that we needed:
1. clarity on who was the likely lynch candidate.
2. an assumption that if someone had a PR to claim they would be around (assuming they were aware they had a wagon on them).
For (1), me being on Joseph at the end would have made it very unclear whether Joseph should be claiming or not.
For (2), I was unaware of Robz's VLA, so it seemed reasonable to assume from Robz's absence that he had nothing to claim.
I know that all seems complicated, which is why I now prefer e's suggestion of just being on who you think is scummiest. Let PR claiming take its chance.
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Post 198 from fang reminds me of something I did in (I think) NM9, when as scum I pointed out some flawed reasoning a guy was using to townread me, and basically told him not to give me town points for that. You don't see many people (especially town) actively turn away town points unless doing so has even more pro-town benefits than having someone reading you as town correctly, even though the reasons are wrong. So this seems like a very new scum post. Combined with his voting pattern at EoD and the recent stuff, I'm very happy leaving my vote on infangthief for a while, preferably until he's on guillotine.
Whelp, I just disappeared down the rabbit hole that was NM9...what an interesting and weird game. Also, duderific. Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!) Also, Dylan did what he sees Fang doing, and he was, in fact, scum.
I have found much of Fang's posts today a little off, and so I was trying to think through why I found him towny before. I came up with:
1. I found him somewhat charming with the "little bit arrogant, little bit lynched comment"
2. the last time I played with him, he was super active and helpful and because he was super active again (except for a lull midweek) I assumed he was also super helpful
3. scum pushed his lynch D1 in that previous game, which was his first ever of f.ds and I felt guilty (and still do) about lynching the newest kid on the first day of a Newbie game
So, between guilt, previous play, and charm, I think maybe I am being snowed. None of those are reasons that he has been town this game, and I think that when I read through the conversations today and look back through D1, he isn't so towny after all. The not comfortable with the wagon comments, the "hey don't town-read me" comment, the narrowing it down to 8 isn't helpful comments, and then his desire to look more closely at me, e, and Awaclus today. In his first game, he and the rest of the speccy had lynched me over and over again, and I was town through and through. I'd have guessed that he would have a better sense of me, and as a result, I now see his questioning of three folks I mostly see as town (although I am not as sure about Awa), as off. So, I'm thinking vote: Fang
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I can claim now, if people would like?
Is this seriously meant as a pro-town suggestion? If you're town, it's not pro-town to help scum narrow down where our PRs might be. If faust's right about it being more beneficial than usual in this set-up for scum to establish early fake-claims, then I think there's good motivation for scum!you to consider it, though. Particularly since we're only in very early D2 right now and you don't currently have any votes.
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New observation: WCD isn't expressing any opinions about Joseph at all, barring putting him in the middle of her long list of people "on the fringes".
The only direct interaction has been her question to him in response to his assertion of there being at least on scum in a group of six. That was a factual "what am I missing?" sort of question, rather than any kind of a scum-hunting motive-questioning post like she's aimed at other people. It's the kind of thing that could be a newbie partner-tell.
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Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!)
Thank you :-) I think I was feeling inspired by the fact that a lot of players at that point were approximately 14 and I was feeling old :-P
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I voted Robz because of his quick lynch suggestion. 1stly that is actually scummy. 2ndly, it's the expected result when you make such suggestions. Robz knows that is scummy and I figured he was generating a wagon for some purpose. When the IC flip occurred I figured that was actually his intent which seems a bit behind the better objective of find and kill scum which he was never present enough to actually do. It would be super good if he actually made use of the fact he is an IC for a day.
I dispute that proposing a quicklynch is scummy in general or scummy for me specifically.
Meh.. is "Let’s quick lynch somebody" obviously pro-town? It definitely suffers from making a bunch of people unsure of how to react, and how to read you, especially since there are impressionable newbies around.
I definitely don't see how your suggestion is not likely to court votes from at least some of the current player base, and it's reasonable to assume that at the time you made the post, you could have predicted exactly that... so to me PPS's reasoning isn't a million likes out.
Anyway, presumably PPS's post's purpose was to goad you into being a more active IC.. so maybe it'll work? :-)
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New observation: WCD isn't expressing any opinions about Joseph at all...
The only direct interaction has been her question to him in response to his assertion of there being at least on scum in a group of six. That was a factual "what am I missing?" sort of question, rather than any kind of a scum-hunting motive-questioning post like she's aimed at other people. It's the kind of thing that could be a newbie partner-tell.
You’re right. I didn’t see a very good reason for his wagon on D1 because it was either based in set up related content or people who played with him before...both of which I’m not terribly facile at yet. And then today I went down that old game rabbit hole and haven’t had much bandwidth to think about or reread anyone other than Fang. I’ll get to Joseph soon, I hope, and until then I’m following other folks reads.
Tomorrow is Election Day and I’m in a close race state so I’m gonna be a mess. Likely scattered and erratic and nervous, so fair warning. And if my guy wins, DAMA!
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Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!)
Thank you :-) I think I was feeling inspired by the fact that a lot of players at that point were approximately 14 and I was feeling old :-P
Yeah, that would be somewhat short of awesome. 14 year old boys...that explains the dude vibe. So much dude. My step-daughter is 16. The early teen years were rough. She’s pretty awesome now.
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Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!)
Thank you :-) I think I was feeling inspired by the fact that a lot of players at that point were approximately 14 and I was feeling old :-P
The last thing I want to do is re-familiarize myself with everyone's ages. I was in my early 20s when I joined these Forums. Now I'm, well, old.
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Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!)
Thank you :-) I think I was feeling inspired by the fact that a lot of players at that point were approximately 14 and I was feeling old :-P
The last thing I want to do is re-familiarize myself with everyone's ages. I was in my early 20s when I joined these Forums. Now I'm, well, old.
You do have the consolation that the rest of us got older too.
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Sorry I've been quiet. I was doing a WCD reread. I'll write it up tomorrow. I'm still thinking about where I stand, but I'm glad to see her making an actual case in her recent post.
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I find it interesting how my "I'm going to reread WCD, e, maybe Awaclus" comment has been taken.
They're people who I'd like to be clearer what I think about them; e and Awaclus I haven't considered much at all yet, WCD I've been up and down on.
But e and WCD both seem to not want to be re-read. If you're town surely you don't mind me rereading you?
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Vote count 2.1
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Not voting (6): pingpongsam, DatSwan, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, mcmcsalot
Robz888 is on the guillotine.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends Sunday, 11th of November, at 10am
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Also, I like Space's flavor writing (adulting IS hard!)
Thank you :-) I think I was feeling inspired by the fact that a lot of players at that point were approximately 14 and I was feeling old :-P
The last thing I want to do is re-familiarize myself with everyone's ages. I was in my early 20s when I joined these Forums. Now I'm, well, old.
old people don't have the dexterity to ride scooters to work
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I think it is reasonable to scrutinize the Robz wagon (and to be clear I'm not entirely comfortable with my position on it!) so don't let me stop those who are doing that, or follow DatSwan's suggestion.
I do feel, however, that the plurality lynch mechanic meant we got less info out of that end of day than we would with a normal majority lynch situation.
Joseph, faust and hypercube alerted us to dangers in #350, #356 and #380, but we still ended up without anything near a majority vote, and a real possibility at the end of a Joseph lynch with no chance for him to claim.
I think personally I'm going to focus effort on rereading a few key people. WCD, e, maybe Awaclus.
Bolded part just doesn't seem like something town would add it there.
DatSwan's recent post feels maybe a little partnery towards Joseph.
ppe 1
Why do I seem partnery towards Joseph?
So this is pretty much you saying that you skum read the people that switched wagons a ton plus me yeah?
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I voted Robz because of his quick lynch suggestion. 1stly that is actually scummy. 2ndly, it's the expected result when you make such suggestions. Robz knows that is scummy and I figured he was generating a wagon for some purpose. When the IC flip occurred I figured that was actually his intent which seems a bit behind the better objective of find and kill scum which he was never present enough to actually do. It would be super good if he actually made use of the fact he is an IC for a day.
I dispute that proposing a quicklynch is scummy in general or scummy for me specifically.
it is skummy. just because you are town and decided to push it this time (or in other games where you may have been town) does not make the concept pro-town. It is bad. There is never an upside to limiting input and information. It always benefits skum more than town.
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I wanted to bring this up D1, but did not find the time.
Regarding the PR claiming stuff - I actually disagree with Fauts' assessment. It would seem that because we do not get a determinate flip (especially now we know Robz is the IC) for a prolonged day... the later in the game claims take place, the more useful they are to skum. This makes claims earlier on less viable to skum.
Claims at this point are useless. A town claim can consist of 1/2 roles (vig or tracker). If they are vig there is no point in risking it, they might as well just shoot to prove it and get themselves off the next block. Tracker could claim and then would be forced to give their info on tracks done thus far.
As the scenario for a lynch and flip in the game is:
1) player is put to L-1
2) either player is lynched or another player is lynched
3) then we have to wait a day to find out what the flip is....
claiming doesn't really matter. we should not promote the idea. either skum fake claims and outs the real PR or it the real PR claiming, which only skum will know. Point being, there is the same downside to claiming while at L-1 and only town upside to revealing results after being put on the guillotine.
It isn't fun to think about, but it seems correct to me.
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Vote: Fang
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Why do I seem partnery towards Joseph?
Well, I found this post kind of odd:
Apologies for being absent. My students took up more time than expected with the Halloween Holiday.
I will have more detail in the morning.
However, for now, the core point, for me at least... is that skum could not of known that Robz was IC (therefore they did not expect to have to deal with a Town flip on Day 2).
The main wagons seemed to be Joseph and Robz. There is no way of knowing whether or not they are BOTH town or not (something that Skum would know). So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.
Specifically the idea that there's no way of knowing whether Joseph is town or not. The obvious way to find out is to lynch Joseph, which at this point seems like it could give us a good deal of information. That, combined with this:
I can claim now, if people would like?
leads me to vote: Joseph.
I'll have to reread fang, some of the things he's said do seem scummy but that's what I thought in NM13 too and he turned out to be town there.
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I'm still thinking about where I stand, but I'm glad to see her making an actual case in her recent post.
That's a completely fair assessment. I'm working on trying to make better cases and have more substantive comments. I find it quite difficult on D1 since there is so little to go on. I fully admit most of contributions were if the "here is what I see you saying" variety. As others build cases, it's easier for me to see holes than build my own. But I recognize that is not an entirely helpful skill set.
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Where is Mcmc??
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I’m here sorry been super super busy catching up now
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Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon.
This is relevant, and Robz hadn't given us any reason to think he was that townie. I assume he thought that the combination of being VLA and having a meta of being extremely absent in general would get him through D1. Personally, I'd missed that he had a several-day-long VLA posted after his slow start to the game.
I still think the lack of interaction between Robz and mcmc is a little odd, as is the fact that mcmc hid his defense of Robz in the same post as a vote for me. Those two usually know what's going on with one another, and mcmc made no mention of Robz's VLA, only that he was very busy. (Note for newbies who may not have come across this before: Robz and mcmc are real-life brothers).
This is a large mis-characterization of how I acted towards robz. I never defended him only repeatedly pointed out that he had done almost nothing alignment indicative for his meta. Also it’s hard to interact with him when he was gone most of the day. This is a scummy post throwing very lose shade at me.
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vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
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DatSwan very towny as usual and I agree fang is exuding lots of newbie scum tendencies.
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vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.
Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc
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vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.
Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc
I’m not sloppy you aren’t getting my point. Scum!Efhw knows both robz and Joseph are town and so there is no reason for you to need to stay on either wagon. You were pushing the Joseph lynch, happy to move over to the robz wagon which grew outrageously quickly and was built on nothing so it’s a super safe wagon to be on, but then it stalled and when wcd joined it your narrative for why you were on the robz wagon was going to look bad so you jumped off and went back to Joseph not caring if that prevented the robz wagon from going through.
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When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.
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When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.
Vote: EFHW
mainly because some good points like the above but also the mcmc omgus vote.
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vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.
Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc
I agree with EFHW that her jumping around is not scummy, I disagree that mcmc is scum here.
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When you have a wagon in town scum absolutely thinks “how is this going to look for me tommorow and can I get off this wagon” before they think “I really need to stay and force this lynch” unless the other option is on scum and they need to prevent a partner lynch.
Vote: EFHW
mainly because some good points like the above but also the mcmc omgus vote.
So EFHW is scum because she is voting reactionary and in the moment. But then on D1 EFHW was super conniving scum that carefully shifted positions on wagons
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So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Although I'm town and was the second most popular lynch target. Which means it wasn't scum at the end trying to force a mislynch and avoid a scum lynch
I kind of think we have better chance finding scum off wagon.
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Yeah in reading how EoD went (sorry I wasn't here, had a meeting that went from 9 to 11 and I didn't get around early enough to log in before), I can pretty easily see scum narratives for fang, WCD, and EFHW, but not as partners. Although I just realized that they all actually involve scum!Joseph and variations on trying to bus early, then avoid the lynch or switch to him late as momentum dies on him and builds on Robz. Vote: Joseph
Throwing lots of shade in this post. And generally I think Dylan's D2 has been relatively scummy.
Vote: Dylan
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I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
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I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
How do you feel about my efhw theory?
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I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
Joseph is definitely town.
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
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I strongly suspect Joseph is town, for once. Space seems scummy.
Yay the IC sounding like the voice of sense!
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
That doesn’t make you town, the constant assertion that people should find you towny for that is what makes you town. So yea meta/non-risk-averse playstyle reasons.
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
That doesn’t make you town, the constant assertion that people should find you towny for that is what makes you town. So yea meta/non-risk-averse playstyle reasons.
It basically boils down to you can't be this crappy of a scum player and still find your way to f.ds on a regular basis.
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
That doesn’t make you town, the constant assertion that people should find you towny for that is what makes you town. So yea meta/non-risk-averse playstyle reasons.
It basically boils down to you can't be this crappy of a scum player and still find your way to f.ds on a regular basis.
So he's too scummy to be scum? I don't really like this but I'm willing to defer to the IC for now.
I reread fang, he seems pretty similar to the town!fang I remember from NM13. He is unafraid to state his opinion on everything and his thought processes seem to come from a town perspective. I thought his proposed plan to lynch faust D1 was pro-town, it got some useful discussion going.
So I think I'll go back to vote: EFHW.
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vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.
Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc
I’m not sloppy you aren’t getting my point. Scum!Efhw knows both robz and Joseph are town and so there is no reason for you to need to stay on either wagon. You were pushing the Joseph lynch, happy to move over to the robz wagon which grew outrageously quickly and was built on nothing so it’s a super safe wagon to be on, but then it stalled and when wcd joined it your narrative for why you were on the robz wagon was going to look bad so you jumped off and went back to Joseph not caring if that prevented the robz wagon from going through.
Ok, I forgot about the don't want to be caught on a town wagon angle. Your theory, while wrong, is no longer scummy. unvote
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old people don't have the dexterity to ride scooters to work
100% true. Unless they are motorized wheelchair kinds of scooters.
Swan, what do you teach?
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I reread fang, he seems pretty similar to the town!fang I remember from NM13. He is unafraid to state his opinion on everything and his thought processes seem to come from a town perspective. I thought his proposed plan to lynch faust D1 was pro-town, it got some useful discussion going.
So I think I'll go back to vote: EFHW.
Hyper, how do you think he would be different if he was scum? Our first game with him is present in my thoughts, too, and I don't think he has been quite so aggressive in trying to question folks and then call them out as he was in that game. I agree with the faust discussion feeling pretty pro-town but if Fang knows faust is not scum (since if he is scum he knows who the scum are) then he has nothing to lose in making the suggestion and he knows enough to know that we aren't gonna lynch faust D1 so it likely wouldn't backfire. His comment from earlier today the "why do you care who I reread" also felt a bit off to me, but I am not quite sure why.
There are 12 of us left and 3 are scum. Good odds that he is one of them, I figure. EFHW was my choice for most of D1, more on feeling than on good reasons. Mcmc comes up with good args, but I am still a bit stumped as to why faust was defending her. Is there something about her usual playstyle that I am missing? All I know is that she was scum in the only game I ever played with her and she seems similar now.
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WCD Reread (line #s may be off by one). I'll list the posts first and make my comments on them. I've omitted around 10 non-game related posts.
91 Says hi, talks about Standard Time. Doesn't want to follow the lynch faust plan unless he thinks it is a good idea.
94 Wouldn't want to lynch faust as a plan without his consent. She feels the decision hinges on the certainty of his being the nk.
96 Says not being deliberately dense, would faust explain why bad idea to lynch him if scum want to nk him.
127 Standard time again. Lack of confidence.
161 reads fang, mcmc and Awaclus as townie. Feels fluff is the human part of the game. Finds pps defensive, but maybe he is just annoyed? votes EFHW for seeming disengaged, not offering perspectives. Thinks DatSwan and Robz may soon start looking scummy because of their inactivity.
223 EFHW-PPS "dust-up" is fascinating. Wonders why they are so at odd with each other.
224 EFHW-PPS have "compelling clash of playstyles". PPS cogent.
257 Cases on Dylan, PPS, and chairs/hypercube: "I’m not sure that the case on any of those three is especially compelling. Chairs hasn’t been around much, pps has mostly been involved in a conversation about how he reads folks and picked up votes for being lazy, and the votes on Dylan are odd and seem kind of random. Faust’s explanation of the DatSwan vote is most interesting to me, but now he’s voting for Dylan instead but I’m not sure why. Swans most recent post is also about set up. Those are the kinds of things I have posted in the past because newb. Swan is way more experienced than that...a “fuming magician”, if you will. Vote: DatSwan I also find EFHWs hard lean into PPS somewhat scummy, but I get the sense that is maybe part of the way she plays since “tenacious” has been used as a descriptor."
271 responds to faust's vote on her "well, that's helpful"
279 Feels like playing with 7 people, not 14. Lists 7 people she sees as not contributing.
[282 Awaclus v. WCD. 284 EFHW v. WCD]
288 justifies her choice of the 7 inactive people.
289 EFHW vote "similarly insightful"
290 Again comments on her inexperience.
292 Again comments on her inexperience.
293 Feels like the spirit of her post at 279 is being ignored.
[295 hypercube v. WCD]
296 Complains about lack of explanations for votes on her.
300 If the goal of lynching is to decrease the number of townies then lynching her is smart
304 she is not scum even a little bit.
305 People on her wagon get squinty side eyes. votes EFHW
317 Says she has evidence she is town.
318 Leaves to go trick-or-treating
340 conversation with faust about what is scummy.
346 Thoroughly defends herself against faust's accusations. Again comments on her inexperience.
347 Doesn't find faust scummy. Feels he is not reading her fairly.
363 Debate with faust continues. Complains that people aren't giving reasons for their votes on her.
369 Complains that people aren't giving reasons for their votes on her.
373 Asks fang's opinion on EFHW change to Robz from her. He had recently agreed with EFHW.
376 "The best argument for finding me towny, by your standards, is that I am trying to find scum and trying to help town. For example, I am engaging with others and not avoiding participation, I am trying to keep town from wasting a lynch on me-- unless the goal is just to winnow the number of town players to a manageable level, and I am attempting to identify what I think are good arguments, what are specious arguments, and when there is no argument about various folks. I am as authentic and transparent as I know how to be, including admitting my inadequacies. While I am sometimes too casual in my language, or fluffy in my comments (but the daylight savings tie thing is interesting!) there is nothing about my play that is disingenuous, shifty, or inconsistent."
433 Nearing deadline, votes Robz
448 Why the votes on Space?
469 Space towny, helpful, random. Robz null, voting him for inactivity. Wants to vote EFHW, thinks EFHW working with faust.
473 Declines to go back to EFHW because "no one else is feeling it."
504 Challenges Joseph's assertion that there must be scum on Robz's wagon. Thinks should look for scum in people who left Robz wagon or who were on wagons that would never go anywhere..
508 Similar argument.
537 Rereads NM9. Makes case on fang that integrates a lot of information. votes: fang
580 Evaluating her scum read on EFHW.
Ok - so I had a lot of problems with WCD's day 1. She seemed to be mischaracterizing my conflict with pps, her reads and lists seemed arbitrary, she complained a lot about people voting her, cluttered the thread just a bit with non-relevant posts, and put a lot of emphasis on how new she is. When she starts getting down to details towards the end of Day 1, though, she seems more like she might be trying to help. Her self-defense vs. faust was on point, and her case on fang is integrative and detailed. I've decided to withhold judgment for now and hope to see more of this productivity.
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Ok, reread of WCD day 1:
Getting started 90,93,95,126,160
- Intro and opinion on the lynch faust D1 plan.
- Mixed view of PPS, votes EFHW.
- Towny start.
Absent for a bit
- Much less engaged than in NM13.
222,223
- explains absence.
- PPS/EFHW 'dustup' comment which EFHW objected to. I can agree with EFHW's objection, but I don't think it's scummy of WCD to make that comment.
- joins faust commentating on EFHW/PPS.
Things heat up 254,256,257,270,278
- explains PPS 'writing well' joke.
- 256 is first bit of real content since 160. Doesn't like the cases on chairs, PPS or Dylan. Bit more shade on EFHW. Votes DatSwan because he's only talking about set-up.
- 278 is the poor comment that it feels like we're playing with 7 instead of 14. It would be a reasonable impression, except that WCD has been one of the absent ones until this point.
At the time I found 256 towny, but I think that was just because it was nice to see some content at last. Rereading, I do find WCD scummy overall by this point:
- still no response to the question about the towny list she gave in 160.
- the appeal to faust's vote on DatSwan seems like clutching at straws, that vote was like 4 days earlier.
- in 256 I don't like the reference to "fuming magician".
WCD picked up a lot of votes around here, but from this point onwards she seems to respond well.
292 seemed good, and then once faust states his case, WCD argues against it well, starting at 339.
Argument with faust, also Awaclus a bit, WCD comes over well I think.
375 is good and by then the wagon is over.
End of day:
432 - Votes Robz because it's remarkable to 'not do D1'
447 - good point challenging faust about starting a Space wagon
469 - would prefer to vote EFHW
472 - doesn't actually vote EFHW because of lack of support
So... there were definitely scummy points (around 256 and 278), but I think the fact that her wagon dissipated so effectively when she started engaging more points to her being likely to be town.
WCD, I would like to ask you two questions, however:
1. How does the term 'fuming magician' relate to DatSwan in #256?
2. Why were you on Robz at the end of the day, when you said you'd prefer to vote EFHW?
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Oh, er, PPE: 1. Hi EFHW.
It'll be interesting to read through and see if we're similar at all!
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Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
I literally told people the town win condition as one of my first posts.... That should make it obvious that I'm town....
That doesn’t make you town, the constant assertion that people should find you towny for that is what makes you town. So yea meta/non-risk-averse playstyle reasons.
It basically boils down to you can't be this crappy of a scum player and still find your way to f.ds on a regular basis.
Usually as scum I die D1 or D2. Except last time I actually managed to get to LYLO
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And I'm not been feeling well last couple of days. Don't have the energy to read those long posts now, will try to tomorrow
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Hyper, how do you think he would be different if he was scum?
Well, if he's good at being scum he'll be pretty similar to how he was as town, if he's not good presumably his attitude would change in some way, maybe becoming more reserved and self-preservatory? It's hard to tell with only the one data point. For now I'll assume that he hasn't become a mastermind in his second game of forum mafia, and if he's scum it'll become apparent over the course of the game.
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Usually as scum I die D1 or D2. Except last time I actually managed to get to LYLO
This reads like classic mislynched!Joseph. (Town)
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Also, no one except Robz knew he was redeemed, so his being ic now is not relevant to the badness of the wagon.
This is relevant, and Robz hadn't given us any reason to think he was that townie. I assume he thought that the combination of being VLA and having a meta of being extremely absent in general would get him through D1. Personally, I'd missed that he had a several-day-long VLA posted after his slow start to the game.
I still think the lack of interaction between Robz and mcmc is a little odd, as is the fact that mcmc hid his defense of Robz in the same post as a vote for me. Those two usually know what's going on with one another, and mcmc made no mention of Robz's VLA, only that he was very busy. (Note for newbies who may not have come across this before: Robz and mcmc are real-life brothers).
This is a large mis-characterization of how I acted towards robz. I never defended him only repeatedly pointed out that he had done almost nothing alignment indicative for his meta. Also it’s hard to interact with him when he was gone most of the day. This is a scummy post throwing very lose shade at me.
This is the post I was thinking of:
vote: space
I can speak somewhat to robz having been insanely busy in the last week or so. So part of his absence has definitely been due to that.
What he has posted has still been typical unhelpful early game robz play which comes from both town!robz and scum!robz but it is certainly a coin flip lynch.
The fact that you're pointing out that he's genuinely busy (which I described as "defending", though maybe you're just arguing my wording?), but not overtly mentioning the VLA, is exactly what I described.
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As for throwing shade, I haven't had time/energy to put together a full case on anyone, but that doesn't mean it's not helpful to share suspicions with other people. I've already made it pretty clear earlier in the game that I don't subscribe to Awaclus's rules about never putting reads or opinions into the game.
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On the EFHW and Fang rereads...
An explanation of the "fuming magicians". It was an autocorrect and what must have been a not-very-funny joke. In the Dirk Gently game DatSwan said this to me at #604
2) WCD - We are playing with fucking magicians. If you are town then it is almost GTD that there is at least a decade of experience under the belt of the skum team. Assume that they have mapped out some shit. For reference, look at the game we just finished. I am NOT saying you must be wrong, I am just saying that you shouldn't dismiss it as an option.
I thought it was hilarious and now think of most of the veteran players in this way. Magicians.
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WCD, I would like to ask you two questions, however:
1. How does the term 'fuming magician' relate to DatSwan in #256?
2. Why were you on Robz at the end of the day, when you said you'd prefer to vote EFHW?
1. I answered the first above (odd reference from a prior game that only I remembered).
2. When mcmc showed up near the end of the day campaigning for her, I said I didn't think there would be enough critical mass to lynch her that close to deadline, plus faust was defending her which I couldn't figure out. I didn't want to be stubborn on my orginal vote for her in a way that might put us in jeopardy of not lynching anyone. I also didn't have a terribly good case on her as much as a feeling about the way she had interacted with PPS and then me during the day, so I wouldn't have been able to make a case to sway anyone else.
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Hyper, how do you think he would be different if he was scum? Our first game with him is present in my thoughts, too, and I don't think he has been quite so aggressive in trying to question folks and then call them out as he was in that game. I agree with the faust discussion feeling pretty pro-town but if Fang knows faust is not scum (since if he is scum he knows who the scum are) then he has nothing to lose in making the suggestion and he knows enough to know that we aren't gonna lynch faust D1 so it likely wouldn't backfire. His comment from earlier today the "why do you care who I reread" also felt a bit off to me, but I am not quite sure why.
@WCD, have you played scum in any of your games on this site so far? (Sorry, I know it's lazy not to dig through the recent ones myself to check, but it's also past midnight and I need sleep...)
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old people don't have the dexterity to ride scooters to work
100% true. Unless they are motorized wheelchair kinds of scooters.
Swan, what do you teach?
I operate a few swim academies in my area.
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@WCD, have you played scum in any of your games on this site so far? (Sorry, I know it's lazy not to dig through the recent ones myself to check, but it's also past midnight and I need sleep...)
No, although in Dirk Gentley I was an unaligned gray text person.
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Otherwise I’ve just been VT. I’ve never needed my QT for anything other than “here’s your role!l
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I am doing some ISOs from a VCA perspective trying to figure out who would generate a lot of info from a flip... then sorta realized that it is way less important than usual because we have to wait a whole extra day for said flip. So, instead, I am just looking at things from a broad stroke sort of view. This comes with some "assumptions", which I know can be bad, but I want to bounce them off the wall with everyone.
It is important to remember that Skum, regardless of where they were wagon-wise, were acting under the assumption that Town would not gain info of a player's alignment until tomorrow. This is important for my theory. I think that Skum's obvious play on early days given this setup would be to spread wagons out as much as possible. This gives them the advantage of WIFOM from the delayed flip, combined with the assurance of the lynch because it plurality by default.
That pretty much breaks down to = I think skum would want to have Town vs Town wagons going on in early days (duh, I know.. stick with me for a sec).
Based on that premise, the first things that jump out to me are:
1) The dissipation of the Joseph wagon
2) The fact that the Joseph wagon never really came back - as I would suspect if Robz and Joseph were both town it would of been held closer.
3) And to back up those points, I combine in the obvious statement that skum will want to be spread out on wagons, as they always do.
At 2.5 hours to DL it read...
Vote count 1.7
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
That checks out. 3 wagons on [Joseph, EFHW, Robz]. Town!Robz is off-wagon, while both Joseph and EFHW are on Town!Robz.
-WCD switches from EFHW to Robz (making EFHW@2, Joseph@3, Robz@5)
-That triggers the EFHW switch from Robz to Joseph (making it EFHW@2, Joseph@4, Robz@4).
The above points are important to me because WCD switching could be done to protect either EFHW/Joseph, or it could be a Town switch. That is kind of a sub-point I want to get out there.
EFHW then leaves to lead wagon to tie Robz and Joseph at 4-4. Important bit - I do not think this is skummy. If I were Town in EFHW's position here I would do the same thing 100% of the time. It forces votes to be put through because of the plurality lynch component, which will of course generate info to look back on.
35 minutes out we are here...
Vote count 1.8
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
... and from here there are a lot of switches back and forth from multiple players... but the whole time the only viable wagon continues to be Robz. The other potential wagons would of been Space, EFHW and Joseph.
The final vote count looked like this:
Vote count 1.final
Joseph2302 (3): EFHW, faust, hypercube
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
Whatever... My summary is that I think the triangle between [Robz, Joseph, Space, EFHW] is odd. Space is a distant fourth in my opinion. I think EFHW would do most of their shit as either alignment. And, I think that a lot of signs point to Joseph being avoided when (if they are town) I would assume skum would want to have them running at a more competitive wagon.
So..
Vote: Joseph
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On the EFHW and Fang rereads...
An explanation of the "fuming magicians". It was an autocorrect and what must have been a not-very-funny joke. In the Dirk Gently game DatSwan said this to me at #604
2) WCD - We are playing with fucking magicians. If you are town then it is almost GTD that there is at least a decade of experience under the belt of the skum team. Assume that they have mapped out some shit. For reference, look at the game we just finished. I am NOT saying you must be wrong, I am just saying that you shouldn't dismiss it as an option.
I thought it was hilarious and now think of most of the veteran players in this way. Magicians.
Yes, I got the reference to the Dirk Gently game, which I was following. And I'm glad that you've toned down the adjective. I find 'fuming magician' funnier than the original.
But the context in the Dirk Gently game was someone (presumed scum) being in control of someone else's vote, and DatSwan was advising you not to assume that the scum team were doing obvious things with that power. Magicians indeed.
I fail to see how that is related to DatSwan making a couple of comments about set-up in this game.
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I wanted to bring this up D1, but did not find the time.
Regarding the PR claiming stuff - I actually disagree with Fauts' assessment. It would seem that because we do not get a determinate flip (especially now we know Robz is the IC) for a prolonged day... the later in the game claims take place, the more useful they are to skum. This makes claims earlier on less viable to skum.
I don't think faust was saying that the delayed flip makes it viable for a scum to fakeclaim early.
I think he was saying that the delayed flip makes it viable for a scum to fakeclaim earlier.
Like in most games I guess there's a point (around Lylo or a bit before?) when scum is happy to take on a 1v1.
But with the delayed flip, that point probably moves earlier. Not as early as D1 or D2, sure, but earlier than Lylo.
Claims at this point are useless. A town claim can consist of 1/2 roles (vig or tracker). If they are vig there is no point in risking it, they might as well just shoot to prove it and get themselves off the next block. Tracker could claim and then would be forced to give their info on tracks done thus far.
As the scenario for a lynch and flip in the game is:
1) player is put to L-1
2) either player is lynched or another player is lynched
3) then we have to wait a day to find out what the flip is....
claiming doesn't really matter. we should not promote the idea. either skum fake claims and outs the real PR or it the real PR claiming, which only skum will know. Point being, there is the same downside to claiming while at L-1 and only town upside to revealing results after being put on the guillotine.
It isn't fun to think about, but it seems correct to me.
I'd have to think more to be sure, but it seems to me that if the tracker is about to get lynched (like intent to hammer, definitely going to happen unless they claim), then they should claim. Like they're going to be dead either way at that point, but at least make the scum team use up their night kill on it, rather than letting the tracker be lynched and scum have free reign who they night kill.
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
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Vote count 2.2
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, hypercube
Dylan32 (1): 2.71828.....
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not voting (4): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, EFHW
Robz888 is on the guillotine.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends Sunday, 11th of November, at 10am
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Also, I will expand on my Dylan case on sometime. More people should vote him.
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Vote: Dylan
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Well I reread e's day 1 and I'm glad I did, because there's quite a bit in there that I'd forgotten about. Might ask some things later.
For now, my reread has reminded me about dentists.
e, how were the dentist and the wisdom teeth?
I need to have fillings next week and week after, not looking forward to that. I can't remember whether fillings or extractions are worse, I've heard the wisdom teeth are pretty bad though.
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@infangthief - Why did you move from Joseph to the Robz wagon? Sorry if you have already explained this.
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Same.
Datswan, can you share some of your thinking about how you got from the analysis to the conclusion?
Hey, Awaclus! Long time no see...why Dylan?
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Vote: Dylan
Vote: Dylan I was thinking he deserved some review but I am covered up lately and it looks like e is going to do it. I may rescind my vote if his case proves flimsy.
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Same.
They match because his theory is that scum were avoiding voting Joseph.
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I just reread infangthief and find him towny. I don't know his skill level at faking towniness, but right now he's an asset in the game and I don't want to lynch him. I looked back at WCD's case, and I don't read any of her examples as scummy, and the rest is based on one previous game they played together. I don't know if her case is scummy, but I disagree with it.
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Hey, Awaclus! Long time no see...why Dylan?
Why not Dylan?
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Also, I will expand on my Dylan case on sometime. More people should vote him.
I agree. How did DatSwan go from that analysis to me being scum?
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Of the 4 mentioned by DatSwan {me, Robz, Space, EFHW}, my thoughts are this:
Me- definitely town
Robz- definitely town
EFHW- the wagon on EFHW dissipated quickly, and that could be a scummy sign. Especially as given that Robz wagon jumped quickly, it seems unlikely that me, Robz & Space are all town. So I think scum may have jumped onto Robz to avoid the possibility of an EFHW lynch
Space- still think scummy
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Actually since I don't see how the 3 D1 wagons of me, Robz & EFHW can be 3 town wagons, I'm better off with Vote: EFHW
Having 3 wagons on D1 and them all being town people is unlikely
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EFHW then leaves to lead wagon to tie Robz and Joseph at 4-4. Important bit - I do not think this is skummy. If I were Town in EFHW's position here I would do the same thing 100% of the time. It forces votes to be put through because of the plurality lynch component, which will of course generate info to look back on.
This is an interestingly subtle defense of EFHW: you assign her a much more towny motivation for moving her vote than the actual reason she gave:
Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
which as has been pointed out was kind of nonsensical.
PPE 2
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I am still feeling Space, though EFHW is not a crazy choice.
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EFHW then leaves to lead wagon to tie Robz and Joseph at 4-4. Important bit - I do not think this is skummy. If I were Town in EFHW's position here I would do the same thing 100% of the time. It forces votes to be put through because of the plurality lynch component, which will of course generate info to look back on.
This is an interestingly subtle defense of EFHW: you assign her a much more towny motivation for moving her vote than the actual reason she gave:
Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
which as has been pointed out was kind of nonsensical.
PPE 2
I agree DatSwan's defences could be indicative of a DatSwan/EFHW scum team
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It looks like more folks are feeling the EFHW scum vibe now. vote: EFHW
I'm going to be swamped at work tomorrow, so I may not be around until Friday. Apologies.
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Same.
Datswan, can you share some of your thinking about how you got from the analysis to the conclusion?
Hey, Awaclus! Long time no see...why Dylan?
Pretty much this...
Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Same.
They match because his theory is that scum were avoiding voting Joseph.
If Joseph is Town, they were the second viable wagon, and skum would want to have as many potential town wagons as possible given the plurality lynch. The "defense of EFHW" as people are putting it, is not a defense at all.
All I stated was that I would do the same thing as she if I were town in their position.
All my reasoning is in the original post, but to simplify:
1) I do not think it can be Joseph!EFHW
2) I think it is likely that one of Joseph/EFHW are skum
3) I think it is more likely that Joseph is skum than EFHW
Conclusion: Joseph = skum, and as it can't be Joseph!EFHW, EFHW = Town
This is not to say that I am promoting the idea that if Joseph were ever to flip Town that EFHW must be skum. Just to get ahead of that before anyone insinuates it.
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@WCD, have you played scum in any of your games on this site so far? (Sorry, I know it's lazy not to dig through the recent ones myself to check, but it's also past midnight and I need sleep...)
No, although in Dirk Gentley I was an unaligned gray text person.
Okay, that's interesting, because the one thing you conspicuously didn't say in your earlier musings about a possible scum!Hypercube was that he'd have the support of some likely-more-experienced scumbuddies guiding him in what to say and how to act. Text below for the benefit of anyone who's finding scroll/search difficult:
Hyper, how do you think he would be different if he was scum? Our first game with him is present in my thoughts, too, and I don't think he has been quite so aggressive in trying to question folks and then call them out as he was in that game. I agree with the faust discussion feeling pretty pro-town but if Fang knows faust is not scum (since if he is scum he knows who the scum are) then he has nothing to lose in making the suggestion and he knows enough to know that we aren't gonna lynch faust D1 so it likely wouldn't backfire.
I feel like if WCD is projecting herself into a space where she's trying to think as if she's Hyper deciding what to do as scum, she's much more likely to think about advice from scumbuddies when she has experienced being scum. So although I'm finding her scummy in a bunch of other ways (like her ongoing total inability to talk about how scummy Joseph is), I'm inclined to treat this as possible townslip.
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EFHW then leaves to lead wagon to tie Robz and Joseph at 4-4. Important bit - I do not think this is skummy. If I were Town in EFHW's position here I would do the same thing 100% of the time. It forces votes to be put through because of the plurality lynch component, which will of course generate info to look back on.
This is an interestingly subtle defense of EFHW: you assign her a much more towny motivation for moving her vote than the actual reason she gave:
Crap. WCD shouldn't bus here. Assuming she knows that, they aren't both scum. I'm regretting leaving the WCD wagon now. Sorry faust. vote: Joseph
which as has been pointed out was kind of nonsensical.
PPE 2
It is not nonsensical! I got a strong scum vibe when WCD voted Robz, which made me want to get off his wagon. I guess I could have gone back to voting her, but like others I was trying to consolidate onto a wagon that might go through. This is another way of saying the same thing DatSwan did - it's better to have more than one strong wagon going.
I'll reread hypercube next.
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Actually since I don't see how the 3 D1 wagons of me, Robz & EFHW can be 3 town wagons, I'm better off with Vote: EFHW
Having 3 wagons on D1 and them all being town people is unlikely
This is completely illogical. We have had three town wagons at once lots of times. And we have only your word that you are town, anyway, so this reasoning is useless for everyone else.
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vote: WCD
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In response to Swan's Joseph case, I have a bunch of my own reasons for thinking he's quite scummy.
First, though, just so as not to confuse newbies, please note that the thing Swan does by saying "Joseph!EFHW" to indicate a Joseph-EFHW scumteam is not standard notation and will wind up players like silverspawn or me :-P The much more standard thing is to use the "!" notation to talk about a version of a player, like town!Space or SK!Joseph, where the property goes before the exclamation mark, and the player's name goes after.
Anyway, I have some wagon analysis reasons for thinking that scum!Joseph is a strong possibility, but nothing very damning yet. Most recently, for a lot of early D2, I had e, Joseph and Robz on my tail, and the wagon stalled. Other people had expressed interest yesterday, and I think scum would have pushed my wagon more had there not already been one scum in the mix. I'm far more inclined to think it's Joseph than e, but I would be very surprised if they're both town.
In early D1, faust and I were voting for Joseph for a long while without the wagon taking off. I think Joseph is someone who's quite easy to push at when he's town, so if we have scum!Joseph then I think his buddies might have been aware of this and worried about bussing because it risked pushing him to far. Conversely, hypercube and Fang are the two that made his later D1 wagon take, so if they flip as scum then I'd think it's good evidence for town!Joseph. It's an interesting possible correlation, but not one I can use for very useful conclusions right now.
I've just also realised that hypercube used to be chairs.. I'm afraid my rolling-vote-count script just asserts that "chairs" is a variant spelling/nickname of "hypercube" for this game, so I only see hypercube's name there now. Apologies if I do more wagon-gazing and get the subbed-in/subbed-out names mixed up.
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Busy day today, but I'm here and caught up, but I'm gonna have to reread some of the arguments and stuff that came up when I actually have time to think through it.
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Blah, I know I am doing a terrible job paying enough attention to this game, which was fine before I was an IC--not caring is how I prove I'm town!--but it's pretty bad now. I'm sorry. It does not help that there are several players unfamiliar to me and I'm having trouble keeping them straight. Maybe we should just lynch one of them...
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(This was a drunk suggestion, if you can't tell.)
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@infangthief - Why did you move from Joseph to the Robz wagon? Sorry if you have already explained this.
I moved at the point when the Joseph wagon seemed to have completely stalled, down to just you and me on it, and it seemed that the choice was between Robz and Space. I preferred Robz mostly because I was starting to distrust faust.
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e, at #423 (with further clarification at #426) you said you were considering moving from Robz to Space, but didn't because you didn't think the Space wagon was viable.
Did you consider moving to Joseph at that point?
(The wagons were Robz 4, Joseph 3, EFHW 3 at that point.)
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
When I read it, I thought: there are some odd things in here. (Probably off topic, but a triangle of four people? Space being a 'distant fourth' even though the IC is part of the triangle?)
DatSwan is working hard to dispel the suggestion that he is partnery towards Joseph.
And yes he is quite clear that he doesn't want to implicate EFHW. Is that just so that he can reach a Joseph vote by the end?
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WCD, I would like to ask you two questions, however:
1. How does the term 'fuming magician' relate to DatSwan in #256?
2. Why were you on Robz at the end of the day, when you said you'd prefer to vote EFHW?
1. I answered the first above (odd reference from a prior game that only I remembered).
2. When mcmc showed up near the end of the day campaigning for her, I said I didn't think there would be enough critical mass to lynch her that close to deadline, plus faust was defending her which I couldn't figure out. I didn't want to be stubborn on my orginal vote for her in a way that might put us in jeopardy of not lynching anyone. I also didn't have a terribly good case on her as much as a feeling about the way she had interacted with PPS and then me during the day, so I wouldn't have been able to make a case to sway anyone else.
I think one of the lessons I learned from NM13 was, if you're making a case, don't make 'swaying other people' a primary objective.
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Datswan put together a good wagon analysis that resulted in a Joseph vote. The whole time I was reading it was confirming my EFHW vote.
Yeah, the analysis and conclusion didn't match in my opinion.
Same.
They match because his theory is that scum were avoiding voting Joseph.
I sort of agree, but he went a very roundabout route to get there.
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Of the 4 mentioned by DatSwan {me, Robz, Space, EFHW}, my thoughts are this:
Me- definitely town
Robz- definitely town
EFHW- the wagon on EFHW dissipated quickly, and that could be a scummy sign. Especially as given that Robz wagon jumped quickly, it seems unlikely that me, Robz & Space are all town. So I think scum may have jumped onto Robz to avoid the possibility of an EFHW lynch
Space- still think scummy
Space, is your vote analysis machine able to test out Joseph's assertion about EFHW's wagon there? My memory is it reached 3 votes max and ended the day on 2 votes. Did it dissipate and come back or something?
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I feel like if WCD is projecting herself into a space where she's trying to think as if she's Hyper deciding what to do as scum, she's much more likely to think about advice from scumbuddies when she has experienced being scum. So although I'm finding her scummy in a bunch of other ways (like her ongoing total inability to talk about how scummy Joseph is), I'm inclined to treat this as possible townslip.
Well there's something new.
One relevant data point is that in NM13 WCD most definitely considered the idea of scum having advice from scumbuddies.
And I had not noticed her avoidance of discussing Joseph.
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Sorry, lots of posts in a row there. I'm caught up now. Seems like Joseph is dividing opinion a lot today, even more than yesterday. I need to think more about Space too. I continue to think EFHW is being reasonable, though the long DatSwan post was a bit strange.
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I feel like if WCD is projecting herself into a space where she's trying to think as if she's Hyper deciding what to do as scum, she's much more likely to think about advice from scumbuddies when she has experienced being scum. So although I'm finding her scummy in a bunch of other ways (like her ongoing total inability to talk about how scummy Joseph is), I'm inclined to treat this as possible townslip.
Well there's something new.
One relevant data point is that in NM13 WCD most definitely considered the idea of scum having advice from scumbuddies.
And I had not noticed her avoidance of discussing Joseph.
Hmm.. the NM13 info may be relevant, then, thanks!
This was the post where I first pointed out the weird lack of opinion WCD had on Joseph:
New observation: WCD isn't expressing any opinions about Joseph at all, barring putting him in the middle of her long list of people "on the fringes".
The only direct interaction has been her question to him in response to his assertion of there being at least on scum in a group of six. That was a factual "what am I missing?" sort of question, rather than any kind of a scum-hunting motive-questioning post like she's aimed at other people. It's the kind of thing that could be a newbie partner-tell.
And this was her response:
You’re right. I didn’t see a very good reason for his wagon on D1 because it was either based in set up related content or people who played with him before...both of which I’m not terribly facile at yet. And then today I went down that old game rabbit hole and haven’t had much bandwidth to think about or reread anyone other than Fang. I’ll get to Joseph soon, I hope, and until then I’m following other folks reads.
She has made 11 posts since then. At least two of them were chatter rather than gameplay, but she's also commented, at least in small ways, on hypercube, fang, FHW, mcmc, Awaclus, Datswan and Dylan in that time. She quoted something e said with a comment that just said "same". No PPS in the list unless you count that e quoted PPS in the thing WCD quoted. Anyway, the lack of Joseph is still very conspicuous.
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Of the 4 mentioned by DatSwan {me, Robz, Space, EFHW}, my thoughts are this:
Me- definitely town
Robz- definitely town
EFHW- the wagon on EFHW dissipated quickly, and that could be a scummy sign. Especially as given that Robz wagon jumped quickly, it seems unlikely that me, Robz & Space are all town. So I think scum may have jumped onto Robz to avoid the possibility of an EFHW lynch
Space- still think scummy
Space, is your vote analysis machine able to test out Joseph's assertion about EFHW's wagon there? My memory is it reached 3 votes max and ended the day on 2 votes. Did it dissipate and come back or something?
My "vote analysis machine" is just a script that makes a long list of all possible vote count states throughout the game.. the analysis is just in my head. Anyway, here's a breakdown of the key votes affecting the EFHW wagon:
Dylan voted EFHW at #104, and sat there for the entire rest of D1.
WCD joined in second place at #160, and left at #256 (moving to Swan).
Mcmc voted EFHW at #301, taking her back up to two votes.
WCD moved back pretty much straight away, at #304, taking the wagon to three votes.
The wagon sat at 3 votes for a long while, until WCD moved off to take the 5th spot on Robz's tail at #432.
Mcmc moved onto me very briefly at #467, but then back to EFHW at #471.
In summary, the only people who voted EFHW at all in D1 were Dylan, mcmc and WCD, and the only one of them to join the Robz wagon was WCD.
So... Joseph is only correct if losing two votes in the space oc 35 posts counts as a quick dissipation, which I'd argue it does not, especially since one of them came back so quickly, so there's only a three-post window of time in which his opinion made sense. Otherwise the wagon "dissipated" by losing a single vote to Robz. Compare this to the fact that the wagon on Joseph went from five people at #404 down to three people at #417, and I'd say he's missing a whole lot of the bigger picture about what was going on at that time.
I can post a bunch of vote state snapshots, but they tend to clutter the thread a lot, and people occasionally seem to get frustrated about me doing so.. but if there's support for that to make it easier for everyone else, let me know.
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@infangthief - Why did you move from Joseph to the Robz wagon? Sorry if you have already explained this.
I moved at the point when the Joseph wagon seemed to have completely stalled, down to just you and me on it, and it seemed that the choice was between Robz and Space. I preferred Robz mostly because I was starting to distrust faust.
Very interesting...can you explain a bit more about distrusting Faust. I know it’s kind of beside the point, but I’m curious since he was coming off shady to me at that point.
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I feel like if WCD is projecting herself into a space where she's trying to think as if she's Hyper deciding what to do as scum, she's much more likely to think about advice from scumbuddies when she has experienced being scum. So although I'm finding her scummy in a bunch of other ways (like her ongoing total inability to talk about how scummy Joseph is), I'm inclined to treat this as possible townslip.
Well there's something new.
One relevant data point is that in NM13 WCD most definitely considered the idea of scum having advice from scumbuddies.
And I had not noticed her avoidance of discussing Joseph.
The biggest difference between them and now regarding scum is that I thought they had day chat. Then I learned that isn’t a usual thing.
I am not avoiding Jospeh discussion, I just haven’t had time. If someone can do a reread summary, that would be awesome. If not, I can do it tomorrow. D1 I didn’t much like the cases on him since they seem to be mostly set up related. But since then he hasn’t done much to make himself more town.
EFHW’s apparent distrust of Faust, though, resionates with me so unvote
I’m getting the feeling again that there are lots of people not really playing. I won’t make a list this time, but I’m wondering where they are and why they are not around
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EFHW’s apparent distrust of Faust, though, resionates with me so unvote
I think you are confusing me with fang.
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EFHW’s apparent distrust of Faust, though, resionates with me so unvote
I think you are confusing me with fang.
The avatars are similar enough...
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
On this topic, question for those who played RMM50: what were the clues that outed WCD as non-town-aligned in that game?
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
Which of my three conflicting observations on WCD are you referring to?
1) She's got this big gap in her play when it comes to Joseph, which I find a possible partner-tell. It's pretty much unarguable that she's talking about almost everyone except Joseph.
2) She may have townslipped, which is utterly opposite in its meaning to point 1. It's why I've currently got her coloured in as "possible town" on my personal multicoloured vote counter, though the fact that Fang says she talked about scumbuddies giving advice in NM13 could mean I'm just reading too much into it.
3) She's the only person to have switched from EFHW's wagon to Robz's, which was an observation I made in response to Fang's question about Joseph's assertion about the D1 EFHW wagon.
Sure, the third one is not a "theory", so this is the least likely one of the things you might be referring to, but since you already seem oblivious to the fact I've posted two other conflicting observations, I think it's also quite possible that you've decided I'm scummy (or decided I'm someone to push for a mislynch on), and aren't actually reading the details anyway.
PPE: 1
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It’s actually all three. It’s that I can’t figure out why you are so fixated on wcd’s play in the first place and that your continued observations feel like a lot of “looks like I’m doing tons of work” without coming to really solid conclusions.
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It’s actually all three. It’s that I can’t figure out why you are so fixated on wcd’s play in the first place and that your continued observations feel like a lot of “looks like I’m doing tons of work” without coming to really solid conclusions.
It looks to me like they are actually doing work. You've been very critical of other people's work without doing much of your own.
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EFHW’s apparent distrust of Faust, though, resonates with me so unvote
I think you are confusing me with fang.
Yep, sorry. I was on my phone.
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
On this topic, question for those who played RMM50: what were the clues that outed WCD as non-town-aligned in that game?
I'm not sure how much it matters, but I had never been unaligned or seen anyone do it, so I just assumed that I was town. Also, my role description led me to believe that I could be converted to town if Bart found me which is why I was so curious about her.
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
So why don't you vote for Space?
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I'm going to vote for DatSwan.
vote: DatSwan
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@infangthief - Why did you move from Joseph to the Robz wagon? Sorry if you have already explained this.
I moved at the point when the Joseph wagon seemed to have completely stalled, down to just you and me on it, and it seemed that the choice was between Robz and Space. I preferred Robz mostly because I was starting to distrust faust.
Very interesting...can you explain a bit more about distrusting Faust. I know it’s kind of beside the point, but I’m curious since he was coming off shady to me at that point.
I can (and will do sometime), but probably you also want to be clear in your own mind about why you found him shady.
Especially so in the light of this:
EFHW’s apparent distrust of Faust, though, resionates with me so unvote
(I'll overlook the confusion between me and EFHW - I take it that you were prepared to unvote whoever shared your distrust of faust.)
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
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I found faust shady for defending EFHW so fully.
I was confused about the posting and thought she was the one who found him shady, too, so I unvoted. I haven’t moved my vote back to her yet because of the EFHW/Joseph argument swan made and need to read Joseph and know I will have more time tomorrow.
Although the WCD wagon of Fang, EFHW is reading all kinds of shady to me but I don’t think you’d both be scum on me...
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The more space pushes this wcd theory the more okay I am with voting for space.
So why don't you vote for Space?
Because efhw is scummier
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I'm a little VLA (specifically LA rather than V) for the weekend.
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
So while i appreciate that you like my logic enough to apply it like this i would like to point out a difference.
My point on Joseph is based upon the premise that we know Robz is town and there is only one other viable wagon at the time of the switches.
In your scenario, WCD switched from EFHW to Robz, but they could of also of switched to Joseph to keep the wagons more even. This would suggest either WCD is town choosing between 2 unknown wagons or that both WCD and Joseph are skum.
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
So while i appreciate that you like my logic enough to apply it like this i would like to point out a difference.
My point on Joseph is based upon the premise that we know Robz is town and there is only one other viable wagon at the time of the switches.
In your scenario, WCD switched from EFHW to Robz, but they could of also of switched to Joseph to keep the wagons more even. This would suggest either WCD is town choosing between 2 unknown wagons or that both WCD and Joseph are skum.
Vote: Datswan
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
So while i appreciate that you like my logic enough to apply it like this i would like to point out a difference.
My point on Joseph is based upon the premise that we know Robz is town and there is only one other viable wagon at the time of the switches.
In your scenario, WCD switched from EFHW to Robz, but they could of also of switched to Joseph to keep the wagons more even. This would suggest either WCD is town choosing between 2 unknown wagons or that both WCD and Joseph are skum.
Or WCD could be scum and know that it's two town wagons being pushed, so they don't mind either way.
I'm not saying that's the case, but it's a possibility that you neglected to mention
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vote: DatSwan
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Vote count 2.3
SpaceAnemone (1):, Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus,
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
Not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
Robz888 is on the guillotine.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends Sunday, 11th of November, at 10am
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
This is a pretty nonsensical reason for a WCD vote. If she so desperately needed a reason to unvote from EFHW's four-person wagon at #636, why was she the one who put it to four people just a short while earlier at #615 anyway?
The kind of vote-hopping you're looking to find is more likely to happen when someone joins a wagon in an early position, but then gets cold feet (or worried about their bus!) when other people make the wagon bigger later on.
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I don't see the justification for PPS and hypercube's recent moves to DatSwan, given that I think Swan is correct in his observation about Fang's logic being flawed.
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@mcmc, you awarded early townpoints to Joseph because he talked about the town wincon, which is something that can be easily obtained by following the "Rusty Guillotine" link in the setup. How much of your subsequent reads have been coloured by the fact that you seem to be behaving as if Joseph is conf!town?
Also, you've pretty consistently supported an EFHW lynch, but in my experience she's the kind of player who is difficult to pin down, and a strong scum player. Given that she partially scumslipped last game, I think she'd be really on her guard this time to prevent it happening again so soon. Unless I'm seriously misremembering that game -- I haven't gone back to check due to limited lunch hour time.
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@mcmc, you awarded early townpoints to Joseph because he talked about the town wincon, which is something that can be easily obtained by following the "Rusty Guillotine" link in the setup. How much of your subsequent reads have been coloured by the fact that you seem to be behaving as if Joseph is conf!town?
I am townreading Joseph for his overall gameplay being extremely consistent with his town meta. Combine that with the fact that he cases against him have all been weak single post based cases that are easy for scum to make because town can make a scummy sounding post. So yes my reads are colored by my confidence in the fact that Joseph is town and some of the cases against him have come from scum. But that only informs a part of my reads on other players.
Also, you've pretty consistently supported an EFHW lynch, but in my experience she's the kind of player who is difficult to pin down, and a strong scum player. Given that she partially scumslipped last game, I think she'd be really on her guard this time to prevent it happening again so soon. Unless I'm seriously misremembering that game -- I haven't gone back to check due to limited lunch hour time.
Is there a question here? Yes efhw is a strong player. But I think her wagon movements around deadline yesterday were very indicative of scum not caring which wagon went through and hoping to the more favorable wagon at the time. She is a strong scum player because she is very non combative and keeps a level head so despite me continually pushing her lynch she hasn’t super defended herself. She tried voting for me and discrediting my case, but when I explained that my logic was sound she herself unvoted me and said she had forgot about that angle.
5 people have all voted efhw in the last few pages and yet without much defense from anyone she has fallen to 2 votes.
I am still actively forming reads on other players as well and I have a few other players that I find scummy and would support wagons of when in need of a lynch but o refuse to drop what I think is a solid case that no one can convince me is wrong because “it’s not happening”.
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I don't see the justification for PPS and hypercube's recent moves to DatSwan, given that I think Swan is correct in his observation about Fang's logic being flawed.
I interpreted fang's comment as referring to WCD's unvote at #636. I don't think that this was a deliberate error by Swan but it points to Swan being eager to offer soft defences of WCD and EFHW.
I also don't like this post:
If Joseph is Town, they were the second viable wagon, and skum would want to have as many potential town wagons as possible given the plurality lynch. The "defense of EFHW" as people are putting it, is not a defense at all.
All I stated was that I would do the same thing as she if I were town in their position.
He starts off by reiterating that he isn't defending EFHW, he's just saying that the thing she did which people have been reading as scummy was actually something town would do. That counts as a defence to me. I don't think making a defence is necessarily bad, for example if you notice a logic error in someone's case you should point it out. To refuse to admit you are defending someone seems scummy, however.
All my reasoning is in the original post, but to simplify:
1) I do not think it can be Joseph!EFHW
2) I think it is likely that one of Joseph/EFHW are skum
3) I think it is more likely that Joseph is skum than EFHW
Conclusion: Joseph = skum, and as it can't be Joseph!EFHW, EFHW = Town
This is not to say that I am promoting the idea that if Joseph were ever to flip Town that EFHW must be skum. Just to get ahead of that before anyone insinuates it.
Then he goes on to say that he thinks that exactly one of Joseph and EFHW is scum. To me that would mean that you should be happy to lynch either, since 50% is really good odds at this point. Maybe you have a preference for one or the other, but to pick the one you think is more scummy and scumread them 100% and the other 0% seems wrong to me, and like the logic of someone who already knows everyone's alignments. He then backpedals and says that if Joseph is town that he wouldn't follow the logic of his own argument to think that EFHW is scum. So, overall my read of Swan is that D1 he didn't contribute anything substantial and today he's been making scummy arguments and hedging a lot.
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Given that she partially scumslipped last game, I think she'd be really on her guard this time to prevent it happening again so soon.
I scumslip almost every game. People almost never notice, like this past time.
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
This is a pretty nonsensical reason for a WCD vote. If she so desperately needed a reason to unvote from EFHW's four-person wagon at #636, why was she the one who put it to four people just a short while earlier at #615 anyway?
The kind of vote-hopping you're looking to find is more likely to happen when someone joins a wagon in an early position, but then gets cold feet (or worried about their bus!) when other people make the wagon bigger later on.
My personal, completely unbiased, theory is that my voting her spooked her just a little.
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I don't see the justification for PPS and hypercube's recent moves to DatSwan, given that I think Swan is correct in his observation about Fang's logic being flawed.
Agree. DatSwan writes in a stream of consciousness way that can be hard to follow. Once I found the thread running through it, I didn't see anything scummy in what he said.
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Vote count 2.3
SpaceAnemone (1):, Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus,
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
Not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
Robz888 is on the guillotine.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends Sunday, 11th of November, at 10am
That's an ugly vote count!
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5 people have all voted efhw in the last few pages and yet without much defense from anyone she has fallen to 2 votes.
I am still actively forming reads on other players as well and I have a few other players that I find scummy and would support wagons of when in need of a lynch but o refuse to drop what I think is a solid case that no one can convince me is wrong because “it’s not happening”.
I'm still willing to vote for EFHW. I'll be generally around this weekend and should be available for the deadline.
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She tried voting for me and discrediting my case, but when I explained that my logic was sound she herself unvoted me and said she had forgot about that angle.
Why do you assume the worst interpretation of my vote and unvote?
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She tried voting for me and discrediting my case, but when I explained that my logic was sound she herself unvoted me and said she had forgot about that angle.
Why do you assume the worst interpretation of my vote and unvote?
I did not mean to imply that interaction increased my scumread if you dramatically. Omgus is slightly scummy. I was more just explaining why you are difficult to lynch and thus a strong scum player in response to space’s somewhat vague musings about you. It is well within your scum meta to be a level headed non defensive player.
So I am not assuming, I am making an educated guess using multiple points of limited data.
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The last sentence of Datswan’s post I found overtly scummy. It tries to seem like a result of some analysis and insight when in reality it appears to be a scum communication organizing two potential mislynches for today.
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So, I finally had enough time to read Joseph...and I just don't see him being very scummy. He was mostly getting flack for talking about the set up, then defending himself for talking about the set up.
I disagree with his position that the Robz wagon has to have scum on it, especially because there were so many singleton votes at the time, but is that necessarily scummy? It seems like we are looking for ways to narrow down the choices.
And now I am curious about why Space was so insistent that I engage with him, because I had said my thoughts about his wagon earlier and am now pretty sure I wasn't missing anything.
Here is my summary of Joseph:
57-59 scum knows more than town, random vote, guillotine players could be IC
61 The IC would be because the town win condition is to have 2 mafia dead + 1 on the guillotine.
So if we have 2 mafia dead, if we guillotine someone and the game doesn't end, then they must be town
71 asks for sample role PMs
73- what is scum wincon?
84- so the scum win condition is "You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
So on guillotine counts as alive for town, but effectively as dead for scum (if there's only 1 left)
128- I’m town because I knew the town wincon
129 - vote chairs (now hyper) for setting up Faust
203- hasn’t had much to say
204 vote PPS (no reason)
229, 234 chairs(now hyper) is best option even if not a great option
235- discussion of the vig role with PPS, when the vig uses the shot, they can claim the role and maybe out scum
240 vig declares privately
319- hyper’s WCD case is weak.
320- he has been unhelpfully inactive, but its not a good idea to vote for him
321, 326 D1 isn’t thrilling so he has been disengaged
342 vote hyper
349 oh yeah, chairs is hyper
350 we just need a majority to Lynch
387 answers Faust question about how he knew town wincon - says its #61 (yep)
389- says he likes setup talk over random D1 chatter
392- we are all bored with D1
393- we’re not trying to think through the setup like some D1s
402 votes Robz, says EFHW is more towny then Robz and that he is green text
407 will be around for deadline
430 would vote for space, still prefers Robz
431 but won’t switch to space until votes come off of him
434 like Robz, he doesn’t do day one, but he has tried to be around
D2
500 If Robz is town, has wagon has to have scum on it
501 so e, PPS, Joesph, WCD, Space, Fang. Since he is town, it wasn’t that scum was trying to avoid a scum lynch
502 Robz wagon was the scummiest. Space may have been a better option
520 maybe Space/Hyper team
521 votes Space
532 offers to claim
572 IC weighs in! Hooray!
573 Im town because I said the town wincon
583 as scum, he usually dies D1or D2, except last time he go to lylo
584 he isn’t feeling well and is behind as a result
609 questions DatSwan’s analysis that leads to him being scum
610 sees EFHW and Space as more scummy of the 4 mentioned by swan (Joseph, Robz, Space, EFHW)
611 votes EFHW because one of the D1 wagons was scum
614 maybe swan’s case was a Swan/EFHW team
655 Adds to Swan’s analysis about Fangs’s case on WCD.
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Combine that with the fact that he cases against him have all been weak single post based cases that are easy for scum to make because town can make a scummy sounding post.
For reference, my personal case on Joseph uses wagon analysis based on the fact I know I'm town and suspect that one of Joseph or e is scum, so that's not actually anything to do with any single questionable statement he's made.
Also, you've pretty consistently supported an EFHW lynch, but in my experience she's the kind of player who is difficult to pin down, and a strong scum player. Given that she partially scumslipped last game, I think she'd be really on her guard this time to prevent it happening again so soon. Unless I'm seriously misremembering that game -- I haven't gone back to check due to limited lunch hour time.
Is there a question here?
Nope, just an observation to see whether you end up agreeing, or what you ended up volunteering on the back of it.
But I think her wagon movements around deadline yesterday were very indicative of scum not caring which wagon went through and hoping to the more favorable wagon at the time.
Okay, so here's a breakdown of EFHW's movements relating to Robz and Joseph:
#357 Joins the Robz wagon.
#404 Moves to Joseph.
#414 Back to Robz (The only intervening vote is Joseph moving away from Robz onto hypercube).
#437 Back to Joseph (A few posts after WCD moved from EFHW to Robz).
Stays there till EoD1.
At the same time, you were already voting for her from#301, and stayed on her till the end of the day, minus a handful of posts where you hopped onto my wagon and back. It looks from here like a really strong tunnel on EFHW that you're justifying with later behaviour.
You claimed that you had originally voted for EFHW because you had a strong townread on WCD, and suspected scum of pushing her. The wagon in question was faust, Awaclus, EFHW, and then hypercube. Obviously, we never get much out of Awaclus, but what did you feel about hypercube, given that he also displayed a lot of changes of vote at the end of D1?
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So, I finally had enough time to read Joseph...
Yeah.. in general, it's not that helpful just to summarise what a player says if you're not then going to analyse it and say what was townie and what was scummy. It clogs up the thread, and it's not as if anyone's going to be able to trust anyone else's take on a third party.
I just don't see him being very scummy. He was mostly getting flack for talking about the set up, then defending himself for talking about the set up.
Okay, that's what I was looking for. It states your position on him, and means that if you later want to go back and vote him, we have something to point to that says you're being inconsistent.
And now I am curious about why Space was so insistent that I engage with him, because I had said my thoughts about his wagon earlier and am now pretty sure I wasn't missing anything.
Well I'm sorry if I missed it, but where exactly did you post your thoughts on Joseph's play itself, or on your thinking about how townie/scummy he might be? I searched through all your game posts for the name "Joseph" and found nothing that seemed relevant.
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So, I finally had enough time to read Joseph...
Yeah.. in general, it's not that helpful just to summarise what a player says if you're not then going to analyse it and say what was townie and what was scummy. It clogs up the thread, and it's not as if anyone's going to be able to trust anyone else's take on a third party.
I just don't see him being very scummy. He was mostly getting flack for talking about the set up, then defending himself for talking about the set up.
Okay, that's what I was looking for. It states your position on him, and means that if you later want to go back and vote him, we have something to point to that says you're being inconsistent.
And now I am curious about why Space was so insistent that I engage with him, because I had said my thoughts about his wagon earlier and am now pretty sure I wasn't missing anything.
Well I'm sorry if I missed it, but where exactly did you post your thoughts on Joseph's play itself, or on your thinking about how townie/scummy he might be? I searched through all your game posts for the name "Joseph" and found nothing that seemed relevant.
Joseph is town. Should be obvious
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Actually, vote: WCD.
The unvote on EFHW looks like she was looking for an excuse, any excuse, to get off the EFHW wagon. Like DatSwan said about the end of day 1.
This is a pretty nonsensical reason for a WCD vote. If she so desperately needed a reason to unvote from EFHW's four-person wagon at #636, why was she the one who put it to four people just a short while earlier at #615 anyway?
The kind of vote-hopping you're looking to find is more likely to happen when someone joins a wagon in an early position, but then gets cold feet (or worried about their bus!) when other people make the wagon bigger later on.
16 hours (overnight) seems like it might be long enough for feet to cool down.
But really, my main feeling was just that the reason for unvoting seemed strange. A previous shared distrust of a player (faust), who we now know to be town.
Having said that, a readiness to unvote is something I do recall of WCD's behaviour in NM13, so... I don't know.
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I wish people would stop evaluating Joseph. We are not lynching Joseph. We should not lynch Joseph.
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I wish people would stop evaluating Joseph. We are not lynching Joseph. We should not lynch Joseph.
I think at least some of the people doing it are doing so as a diversionary tactic.
Let's discuss lynching someone who won't get lynched, instead of doing anything useful
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I wish people would stop evaluating Joseph. We are not lynching Joseph. We should not lynch Joseph.
I think at least some of the people doing it are doing so as a diversionary tactic.
Let's discuss lynching someone who won't get lynched, instead of doing anything useful
I also think so.
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In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.
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bah. I promised to do a reread and case on Dylan but I have yet to do it.
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In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.
I would lynch space and fang!
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I also would not lynch Space or fang. I'm interested to hear E's Dylan case.
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In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.
I would lynch space and fang!
Ic “would lynches” are the least helpful thing you could do...literally worse than not saying anything
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In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.
I would lynch space and fang!
Ic “would lynches” are the least helpful thing you could do...literally worse than not saying anything
You and I have different philosophies about this.
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I’m also interested in Dylan and Swan cases.
It’s frustrating to me that there are a handful of people who are regularly engaged and then this other group of people who contribute very little and/or infrequently. I feel like we are scrutinizing one another because there is text to work with while the mostly absent people fly under the radar. A quarter of the remaining pkayers are scum. They could all be the less active people and just let us chew up one another, right? I don’t have any solutions or fully formed thoughts, but I’m frustrated.
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3 beers in, grabbing the 4th. building the case now. Its gonna be good. Better than my atrocious dominion play over the last 2 hours.
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16 hours (overnight) seems like it might be long enough for feet to cool down.
But really, my main feeling was just that the reason for unvoting seemed strange. A previous shared distrust of a player (faust), who we now know to be town.
Having said that, a readiness to unvote is something I do recall of WCD's behaviour in NM13, so... I don't know.
So, I think you’re asking why I unvote and you’ve noticed I do it. Well, it’s because I get nervous about my reads when I start reading other people’s cases. I find EFHW scummy, but I don’t quite know why and I don’t like having a vote based on my vague sense and I worry that it has more to do with personality than shadiness. In other words, I unvote because I’m squirrelly and want to have quality contributions. Not scummy, just uncertain. It bothers me that she keeps voting for me (which she notes) because I don’t get it so I’m just trying to make sure I’m not being omgus even though OMGUS! .
There is a 1 in 4 chance she is scum. But that is true of everyone. Well, I guess there is a somewhat better than that chance that she (and everyone else) is scum since I know I’m not. At this point I think the people not contributing are more problematic than the people who are, and she has that going for her.
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3 beers in, grabbing the 4th. building the case now. Its gonna be good. Better than my atrocious dominion play over the last 2 hours.
Hey, me too! Except bourbon and not building any cases.
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I drove in pouring rain the whole day so my wife can run the Richmond marathon tomorrow while I try not to lose either one of the 2 or 4 year olds in the teeming throngs of people tomorrow and then drive back. Should be around Sunday though.
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out of the gate, buddying up to the newer players, also with a random EFHW vote:
Hey everybody! Good to be back in a game for the first time in almost a year.
vote: EFHW
infang and WestCoast, nice to meet you guys (well, meet through this mostly anonymous, virtual world in which we find ourselves). If and only if the games are over, how did your first games here on f.ds go for you?
posts 3&4 (skipped 2, didn't see much in it:
Strong town read: Awaclus, e.
Normal town read: mcmc, faust, space
Normal scum read: EFHW, Robz (although I think I always tend to scumread him, I'll reread him after this post).
Everyone else is either null or just pretty neutral.
lolz, Robz has like 2 posts. Yeah, my default is just to scumread Robz. Move him to null.
Very meta aware. Awaclus and I get strong town reads, which is interesting to me since those are town reads that I have as well. Then mcmc, faust, and space get town, EFHW (why????) and Robz (because meta) get scum reads.
and....screw it. I think dylan is town now. His posts feel very much more in line with "me against the world" than "me and my team trying to nail down townies as lynches"
like this post:Post 198 from fang reminds me of something I did in (I think) NM9, when as scum I pointed out some flawed reasoning a guy was using to townread me, and basically told him not to give me town points for that. You don't see many people (especially town) actively turn away town points unless doing so has even more pro-town benefits than having someone reading you as town correctly, even though the reasons are wrong. So this seems like a very new scum post. Combined with his voting pattern at EoD and the recent stuff, I'm very happy leaving my vote on infangthief for a while, preferably until he's on guillotine.
and this post:Vote: Dylan for putting me on his scum list and then reconsidering.
Robz, I don't necessarily remember how my gut used to read everyone here that I've played with, but I definitely remember having to fight against gut reading you as scum. When I posted that list, my gut said you were scum, but then as I typed it, I remembered the aforementioned fact and decided to see if there was anything specific that I saw that justified that read. I decided to hit post and then check rather than checking so I could edit my post to make sure it was just right.
and even a little bit of this post:E also seems to be trying to stay in the background. I think most of the people who have been doing a lot of talking (pps, EFHW, infang) have been doing so from a towny perspective.
It feels like we are playing with like 7 people instead of 14. There are definitely some folks who’ve had very little interaction. They respond to a prod and then disappear again. E, robz, mcmc, Joseph, Dylan, Swan, and Space all seem to me to be on the fringes, perhaps allowing us to just pick on one another.
Upon cursory investigation, at least 2 of those actually have more posts than you...
My list might well have some inaccuracies (I'm on my phone so limited searching ability) but my question is, is my impression correct? Does it feel like everyone is playing? More to the point, is that normal?
My whole purpose in continuing to play a game that I am not very good at is to learn how to do it better. It seems like being around infrequently and/or randomly would be better for scum. Is that right?
Responding specifically to italics: This just depends on the person. Some people are very good at being very active, controlling the discussion, and actively manipulating town as scum, while others do what you are suggesting and try to blend into the background and only post the bare minimum. I tend to operate under the assumption that most people's activity level is a result of irl business and so I don't look at activity level as being a worthwhile starting point for a case. A point in a more comprehensive case, sure, but not the primary one, outside of extreme cases.
I'll be back on later this evening with a lot more free time to reread the last few pages.
although that last one is more of just big concept theory
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who should I do next?
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I should also
unvote
I will vote again before the night is through
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who should I do next?
PPS? EFHW?
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who should I do next?
PPS? EFHW?
you have to pick one
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I drove in pouring rain the whole day so my wife can run the Richmond marathon tomorrow while I try not to lose either one of the 2 or 4 year olds in the teeming throngs of people tomorrow and then drive back. Should be around Sunday though.
Go family! That’s awesome. Good luck to her, and to you. Not losing the kids is key.
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who should I do next?
PPS? EFHW?
you have to pick one
EFHW
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who should I do next?
PPS? EFHW?
you have to pick one
EFHW
ok
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calls out pps for a vote she doesn't think pps should have:
Maybe I'll try being a bit more direct. Pingpongsam, why does Space seem town to you this time?
Gut read only. Mainly, I always think Space is scum and I’m not getting that feel this time. Space is usually way more analytical and buddying with people. They seem pretty much like uninformed town right now though.
In between your town read post and fang's question, Space has a bunch of fluffy posts, nothing serious. Your explanation doesn't fit her play.
vote: pps
doubles down on pps in the next couple posts here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775156#msg775156)and here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775157#msg775157). (I really like how she is doing this)
and more defense of the pps vote (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775254#msg775254)
and more (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775262#msg775262)
and trying to get other people (mcmc particularly) to talk about pps (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775281#msg775281)
then kind of takes offense (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775284#msg775284)(?? not sure if that is the best word - actual wording is "I am not comfortable with this post") at how WCD perceives her case, which is enough to move her vote to WCD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775390#msg775390) in the next post seeing that PPS is gaining no traction.
jumps on Robz' "lets quick lynch somebody" comment and joins the lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg775524#msg775524)
jumps around at the end of D1 a bunch of times, then immediately begins D2 voting WCD.
I dont even have to read D2. EFHW is town, I will not vote her this game. period. Maybe if she claims scum. The way she jumped on PPS early, then moved to WCD, then tried to help out for a lynch jumping around. Everything just feels so much town. so much town.
I am interested in PPS now though because of her early case on him. maybe I will do PPS next.
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and I just read through EFHW D2 and it is nothing but townie. How are people even voting her???? It makes no sense
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and I just read through EFHW D2 and it is nothing but townie. How are people even voting her???? It makes no sense
4 bourbons in, what’s townie, legitimately curious from your perspective
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Also the recent posts convince me we need to run a drunk blitz mafia game like we used to and I’m avidly for trying out a discord/Skype rum blitz game but that convo should be had outside this thread.
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and I just read through EFHW D2 and it is nothing but townie. How are people even voting her???? It makes no sense
I think, for me, it has something with her being such good scum last game. That and she keeps voting for me.
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Also the recent posts convince me we need to run a drunk blitz mafia game like we used to and I’m avidly for trying out a discord/Skype rum blitz game but that convo should be had outside this thread.
Ooohhhhh.....and, good point. I feel somewhat bad that all the Euros will wake up to the beer/bourbon conversations with nothing but coffee.
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because you asked politely:
Robz is IC. Interesting twist.
RIP faust. vote: WCD.
This is a classic town response to a mislynch. "we lynched someone, not who I wanted, they turned out town. Doubling down on my D1 scum read"
vote: efhw
Rereading how the end of day went I still think both the robz and Joseph wagons were awful. I think hey are likely both town (despite Joseph’s scummy should I claim statement. Note joseph constantly sticks his foot in his mouth as town and is frequently mislynched do to it). Efhw bouncing between the wagons is scum not caring which one gets lynched.
I can also see space being scum, they became a last chance wagon as robz/joseph were stalling (due to scum not being super invested in forcing one or he other through). And space has had a very mudslingy start to day two.
In actuality, when WCD voted Robz I concluded he was probably town. Then I got on the Joseph wagon because it was the only other viable one. If I didn't care who got lynched, I would have just stayed on Robz. I had no reason to jump around.
Are you being sloppy or trying to mislynch me? vote: mcmc
I’m not sloppy you aren’t getting my point. Scum!Efhw knows both robz and Joseph are town and so there is no reason for you to need to stay on either wagon. You were pushing the Joseph lynch, happy to move over to the robz wagon which grew outrageously quickly and was built on nothing so it’s a super safe wagon to be on, but then it stalled and when wcd joined it your narrative for why you were on the robz wagon was going to look bad so you jumped off and went back to Joseph not caring if that prevented the robz wagon from going through.
Ok, I forgot about the don't want to be caught on a town wagon angle. Your theory, while wrong, is no longer scummy. unvote
Then you have the quick mcmc vote and then unvote. This puts EFHW in the "me vs the world" category, which I think is scummy. She feels as though she is playing hard, having good input, and people just find her scummy for it. well screw them, I will vote them. Except after cooling off and looking at it unvotes and then.....back to WCD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg776462#msg776462) a little bit after the reread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19047.msg776268#msg776268).
Then just some other random stuff.
I you can build up master!scum!EFHW in your head if you want, but the simplist answer is usually right, and it is pretty simple to see town!EFHW
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At the same time, you were already voting for her from#301, and stayed on her till the end of the day, minus a handful of posts where you hopped onto my wagon and back. It looks from here like a really strong tunnel on EFHW that you're justifying with later behaviour.
You claimed that you had originally voted for EFHW because you had a strong townread on WCD, and suspected scum of pushing her. The wagon in question was faust, Awaclus, EFHW, and then hypercube. Obviously, we never get much out of Awaclus, but what did you feel about hypercube, given that he also displayed a lot of changes of vote at the end of D1?
clipped for ease of reading
So I think you are having your cake and eating it to(as well? This quote seems grammatically incorrect). You are claiming I am tunneling efhw as well as claiming I am justifying my case on efhw after the fact. When in reality I made a loose day one case (one that I felt was much better than robz or Joseph but I was willing to vote for you) based on her votes on wcd and Joseph whom I found townie. I then had my scum read strengthend by her actions around deadline (conveniently hoping on and off the robz wagon), and furthermore today as she has reflected her scum meta of keeping a cool head and not engaging with my case on her/even conceding to the angle I am coming from in certain areas. All of this together creates my current want to lynch her. So you can claim my overall case is weak or you can claim I am tunneling and viewing all of her post in the worst way, but you can’t say I am justifying a weak earlier case and tunneling at the same time. I just don’t drop cases as easily as many players around.
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and I just read through EFHW D2 and it is nothing but townie. How are people even voting her???? It makes no sense
I think, for me, it has something with her being such good scum last game. That and she keeps voting for me.
well, are you scum? It would be a good reason for her to vote for you.
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te and then unvote. This puts EFHW in the "me vs the world" category, which I think is towny. She feels as tho
sorry, typed "scummy" instead of "towny"
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E your townread of efhw really seems to be that she is playing a good game, not she’s playing a towny game. I agree she hasn’t done anything insanely scummy but for god sakes yesterday we lynched robz after all of three posts from him and I at least see her pushing cases on people I find townie which makes her more than likely scum.
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E your townread of efhw really seems to be that she is playing a good game, not she’s playing a towny game. I agree she hasn’t done anything insanely scummy but for god sakes yesterday we lynched robz after all of three posts from him and I at least see her pushing cases on people I find townie which makes her more than likely scum.
I do have a soft spot for people who play good games. How about we just lynch EFHW tomorrow if she is still alive and we haven't lynched scum? If she is playing a good game we want to keep her around to help us. Lets lynch.....say.....PPS? Let me reread him
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and I just read through EFHW D2 and it is nothing but townie. How are people even voting her???? It makes no sense
I think, for me, it has something with her being such good scum last game. That and she keeps voting for me.
well, are you scum? It would be a good reason for her to vote for you.
But I’m not! That’s the frustration. And seems that is impossible to convey.
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It makes some sense to me not to lynch the players who playing well, and contributing frequently. Which I was what I tried to say previously in discussing why I invited her.
I’m not founding her towny, but think it’s be better to lynch someone less involved. It doesn’t seems like she is leading many of the wagons, unless she is much more subtle than I realize.
Yes, please reread pps for me. I’m on my phone so all that is hard. Plus, you know, booze.
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You claimed that you had originally voted for EFHW because you had a strong townread on WCD, and suspected scum of pushing her. The wagon in question was faust, Awaclus, EFHW, and then hypercube. Obviously, we never get much out of Awaclus, but what did you feel about hypercube, given that he also displayed a lot of changes of vote at the end of D1?
clipped again
I would honestly have to do a full reread of hyper to let you know how I feel about him. I dislike his recent reads specifically the scum read of DatSwan and the townread on fang/you. But I remember little of his day 1.
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It makes some sense to me not to lynch the players who playing well, and contributing frequently. Which I was what I tried to say previously in discussing why I invited her.
I’m not founding her towny, but think it’s be better to lynch someone less involved. It doesn’t seems like she is leading many of the wagons, unless she is much more subtle than I realize.
Yes, please reread pps for me. I’m on my phone so all that is hard. Plus, you know, booze.
I have exclusively played this game via phone since I graduated college oh so many years ago. Rereads are not what they used to be. Also the sentiment you are advocating is akin to “lynch all lurkers” which worked in a day of town being as active as they possibly could be but I believe we are sadly in a time where that no longer works consistently.
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Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?
so PPS has a lot of stuff, and I am giving up on quoting tons of stuff and commenting on it, but here is the crux of it all. Here we have PPS expressing disbelief that someone would scumread them. "I am playing such a good game, how could you possibly scum read me"
Then later in his defense against EFHW's early D1 case: All of your case is predicated on me being a typical, logic based player which I never have been.
I for one have never thought of PPS as a "typical, logic based player" but again this is PPS expressing the idea that his play does not warrant being scum-read.
This idea that "I am playing good, how could anyone scumread me" is tricky - it can come from town or scum. When I feel as though I am an IC I usually get a bad case of it and post the most obnoxiously scummy things because "people could never see me as scummy - I am clearly town"
But for PPS? not so sure. I think it could be scum there. Like I just said with mcmc - the obvious answer could very well be the right answer.
vote: PPS
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Also the sentiment you are advocating is akin to “lynch all lurkers” which worked in a day of town being as active as they possibly could be but I believe we are sadly in a time where that no longer works consistently.
I haven’t played in many games with this many players, so I’m still trying to get a feel for how much activity is necessary and when silence is actually hurting us. We can’t lynch all the lurkers; there’s too many. I’m just not sure my time is best spent on the people actually making it a game. Overall I’m enjoying this game more than others because there wasn’t a mid-day stall where everyone just stopped...
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Just look at that beautiful prose and yet I am the bad guy for townrreading that?
so PPS has a lot of stuff, and I am giving up on quoting tons of stuff and commenting on it, but here is the crux of it all. Here we have PPS expressing disbelief that someone would scumread them. "I am playing such a good game, how could you possibly scum read me"
Then later in his defense against EFHW's early D1 case: All of your case is predicated on me being a typical, logic based player which I never have been.
I for one have never thought of PPS as a "typical, logic based player" but again this is PPS expressing the idea that his play does not warrant being scum-read.
This idea that "I am playing good, how could anyone scumread me" is tricky - it can come from town or scum. When I feel as though I am an IC I usually get a bad case of it and post the most obnoxiously scummy things because "people could never see me as scummy - I am clearly town"
But for PPS? not so sure. I think it could be scum there. Like I just said with mcmc - the obvious answer could very well be the right answer.
vote: PPS
You just managed to townread all of my scum reads and then scum read me with with a half hearted “case” that has nothing to do with any actual scummy behavior. I mean, hell, if you wanted to put any conviction into it you would have explicitly pointed out that I had voted for the people you are reading as town. That would at least have the appearance of a case. This thing you just put out there seems intentionally formed as to have no means of response. It is essentially a baseless vote. What exactly is there for me to wrangle over in this?
You quoted me referring to Space and then mischaracterized that as some how referring to myself? That whole bit seems non sequitur. My whole point Space was making strong town plays not necessarily myself. At that point I was being scrutinized for not scum reading Space and space had just posted something that seemed exceptionally towny to me. I am not seeing how that constitutes playing up my own town game skills.
In the second quote you negate your own “argument” right out of the gate by conceding that what I said about myself is exactly true for how you see me as well. Again, nothing here for me to contend with. I’m seeing baseless allegations with nothing posed as an actual point of contention.
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@e, I second what PPS said about his "look at that prose" post. His post was #193, and I'd just posted at #192, at a point in the early game where PPS was getting scumread for townreading me, without people really scumreadign me at that point in the game, I think. Fang had voted me at #156, but nobody else joined him before he unvoted at #197.
In the post of mine that PPS was holding up as townie, I was arguing that I think it's helpful for people to state strong townreads (as a counter to Awaclus's usual assertion), because if scum feels compelled to participate in that, then they have a harder time u-turning to mislynch their earlier stated townread as the game state drifts. And ironically, PPS did flip to being interested in lynching me towards the end of D1, without even referring to his earlier stated townread.
He's in my "null" bucket right now, in spite of that, though. Partly because he's just not a logical player, and partly because he posted some setup thinking, which would be a big risk for him as scum... in my very first scum game he was my partner and scumslipped hard by trying to talk about setup. He's the sort of scum player who can't really resist the urge to do something wild and risky, rather than one to catch by subtle evidence-gathering.
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I reread Hyper this morning and although there is nothing glaringly scummy, there is very little that helpful either. It’s also interesting that at the start of D2, he skewers EFHW for moving her vote from me to Robz to Joseph to stay off the Robz wagon, but does the same thing when he moves from Robz to Joseph once it’s clear the Robz lynch is going through, too.
If I try to read EFHW as town, the fact that at he is consistently pushing her is interesting. I’ve been reading her as fairly scummy, but have tried to investigate the reasons why (discussed elsewhere) and wonder where his strength of conviction is coming from.
So, vote: hypercube
We’re headed up to a cabin in a bit and I have no idea what the WiFi situation will be. I should be able to check in before deadline, though.
Oh, and if y’all forgot....deadline is tomorrow at 10.
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I reread Hyper this morning and although there is nothing glaringly scummy, there is very little that helpful either. It’s also interesting that at the start of D2, he skewers EFHW for moving her vote from me to Robz to Joseph to stay off the Robz wagon, but does the same thing when he moves from Robz to Joseph once it’s clear the Robz lynch is going through, too.
If I try to read EFHW as town, the fact that at he is consistently pushing her is interesting. I’ve been reading her as fairly scummy, but have tried to investigate the reasons why (discussed elsewhere) and wonder where his strength of conviction is coming from.
So, vote: hypercube
We’re headed up to a cabin in a bit and I have no idea what the WiFi situation will be. I should be able to check in before deadline, though.
Oh, and if y’all forgot....deadline is tomorrow at 10.
I never voted for Robz.
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That's a really lazy attempt to build a case from someone who keeps imploring people to try harder. WCD even has to contort herself into discounting her expressed scumread of EFHW to make it work.
vote: WCD
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Vote: hypercube
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Vote: WCD
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The HyperChairs voting history seems worth looking at, in light of WCD's comments. For reference, the substitution occurred at #267.
Chairs votes PPS at #127, second onto the wagon behind Awaclus.
(Awaclus moves from PPS onto Chairs at #136).
Chairs has an early 3-vote wagon when PPS votes him back at #140: "Chairs (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam"
(PPS wagon reaches 3 at #204: "pingpongsam (3): Chairs, EFHW, infangthief")
Hyper unvotes at #271, which is his opening post in the game.
Hyper joins me on Joseph at #274.
Hyper moves to WCD at #294, taking her wagon to 4: "WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube"
(By #379, Hyper is the only one left on the WCD wagon).
Hyper moves back to Joseph at #381, pushing him up to 4: "Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube"
Hyper moves onto me at #465 (faust had only just started the wagon at #442).
Hyper moves back to Joseph at #489, putting him up to 3, whereas Robz was already at 6 votes by then.
So it's definitely true that he never voted Robz, while WCD's case said he did. Hyper [i[did[/i] bounce to me and then back to Joseph, but I'd only consider that to be bouncing carelessly between town wagons if I thought Joseph was townie. It certainly looks like Hyper is an unlikely partner for either scum!Joseph or scum!WCD, though.
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Interestingly, WCD also thought I'd voted for Robz as of #503. I don't think she'd have made that mistake again if she had actually reread me in between then and now.
So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Not necessarily, right? Since it was a plurality instead of a majority, there were 6 other people with different votes in addition to Robz and faust. Once Robz lynch was assured, both EFHW and hyper jumped off and onto a wagon they knew wouldn’t make. The same with mcmc, Dylan, Awaclus, and DatSwan (not the jumping just the being on wagons going nowhere). I don’t know why scum would leave themselves on a town lynch wagon when it was going to make regardless. The VCA works much better when a majority is required to lynch.
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I'm obviously willing to go back to Joseph but it doesn't seem like anything is changing unless multiple people leave the Robz wagon.
Sorry, I got confused by this and then the switch back to Joseph just before DL at Faust’s urging
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Interestingly, WCD also thought I'd voted for Robz as of #503. I don't think she'd have made that mistake again if she had actually reread me in between then and now.
So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Not necessarily, right? Since it was a plurality instead of a majority, there were 6 other people with different votes in addition to Robz and faust. Once Robz lynch was assured, both EFHW and hyper jumped off and onto a wagon they knew wouldn’t make. The same with mcmc, Dylan, Awaclus, and DatSwan (not the jumping just the being on wagons going nowhere). I don’t know why scum would leave themselves on a town lynch wagon when it was going to make regardless. The VCA works much better when a majority is required to lynch.
No, I wasn’t confused there. I was talking about moving around on votes that wouldn’t end up with a you being scrutinized after the lynch. From Space to Joseph or wherever, as long as it wasn’t Robz, kept you from being looked at after the lynch went down.
The fact that it wasn’t Robz was my mistake, but it wasn’t my argument. My argument is that you were trying to be part of a wagon that you knew was irrelevant.
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My wagon is super scummy. It’s the only real wagon happening with with less than 20 hours to DL, so I’m assuming I’ll die. I’m not going to be around to figure out why or provide any explanation other than what I have, though, because weekend fun is real!
I’m 100% town, so when you all find that out for sure, remember EFHW and hyper have been on me pretty consistently D1 and 2. If one of them jumps before I get lynched, the jig is up for sure.
Have fun!
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Interestingly, WCD also thought I'd voted for Robz as of #503. I don't think she'd have made that mistake again if she had actually reread me in between then and now.
So that means at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
Not necessarily, right? Since it was a plurality instead of a majority, there were 6 other people with different votes in addition to Robz and faust. Once Robz lynch was assured, both EFHW and hyper jumped off and onto a wagon they knew wouldn’t make. The same with mcmc, Dylan, Awaclus, and DatSwan (not the jumping just the being on wagons going nowhere). I don’t know why scum would leave themselves on a town lynch wagon when it was going to make regardless. The VCA works much better when a majority is required to lynch.
No, I wasn’t confused there. I was talking about moving around on votes that wouldn’t end up with a you being scrutinized after the lynch. From Space to Joseph or wherever, as long as it wasn’t Robz, kept you from being looked at after the lynch went down.
The fact that it wasn’t Robz was my mistake, but it wasn’t my argument. My argument is that you were trying to be part of a wagon that you knew was irrelevant.
I was moving around because I thought Robz was a bad lynch and I was joining faust in trying to find consensus on someone else. I didn't think we had anything from Robz that was alignment indicative, so I much preferred scumhunting to lynching someone who was absent and, based on probability, likely town.
If I wanted to avoid being scrutinized, I could have just avoided moving my vote in the first place, but obviously I was motivated to be active and try to lynch scum.
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Sorry I've not been around much the last couple of days. Been a bit burnt out, and I honestly don't know if I'm going to be on much (or at all even) before the deadline.
Looks like there's some good discussion going on though. I've skim-read it. One thing I noticed is that WCD's reason for unvoting EFHW has now changed. Either that or she was only ever voting EFHW because other people were, and 'there is a 1 in 4 chance she is scum'. Just all seems a bit odd, so I'm going to leave my vote there.
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Sorry I've not been around much the last couple of days. Been a bit burnt out, and I honestly don't know if I'm going to be on much (or at all even) before the deadline.
Looks like there's some good discussion going on though. I've skim-read it. One thing I noticed is that WCD's reason for unvoting EFHW has now changed. Either that or she was only ever voting EFHW because other people were, and 'there is a 1 in 4 chance she is scum'. Just all seems a bit odd, so I'm going to leave my vote there.
The reasons haven’t changed, just more fleshed out.
Don’t forget, Fang, you thought I was scum every day of our game in the elect and I was nothing but town. Same then as I am now. If you want to lynch scum, keep looking. I’m resigned to being lynched but I want us to win.
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Sorry I've not been around much the last couple of days. Been a bit burnt out, and I honestly don't know if I'm going to be on much (or at all even) before the deadline.
Looks like there's some good discussion going on though. I've skim-read it. One thing I noticed is that WCD's reason for unvoting EFHW has now changed. Either that or she was only ever voting EFHW because other people were, and 'there is a 1 in 4 chance she is scum'. Just all seems a bit odd, so I'm going to leave my vote there.
The reasons haven’t changed, just more fleshed out.
Don’t forget, Fang, you thought I was scum every day of our game in the elect and I was nothing but town. Same then as I am now. If you want to lynch scum, keep looking. I’m resigned to being lynched but I want us to win.
In the speccy, not the elect
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My wagon is super scummy. It’s the only real wagon happening with with less than 20 hours to DL, so I’m assuming I’ll die. I’m not going to be around to figure out why or provide any explanation other than what I have, though, because weekend fun is real!
I’m 100% town, so when you all find that out for sure, remember EFHW and hyper have been on me pretty consistently D1 and 2. If one of them jumps before I get lynched, the jig is up for sure.
Have fun!
You're town but we should continue voting you or be accused of being scum?
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vote count please!
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Guys, I'm super sorry. Had a work conference today that had me VLA, forgot to post about it, and I have some stuff I have to get done before tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to catch up tonight and have a really busy day tomorrow, so I'm basically LA until Monday.
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I'm in the middle of an infangthief re-read, but it's getting super late here. I want to get a vote down before sleeping, since a bunch of you may be thinking and posting while I'm asleep (or so we can hope!).
I'm pretty sure that there's scum somewhere in {Joseph, Fang, Hyper}, because of the way Joseph's D1 wagon went, so that's my preferred pool for today. I'm part-way-through a detailed re-read of Fang that is turning out mostly townie but with some definite scummy streaks. If I listen to mcmc/WCD/anyone else townreading Joseph (given that I know I have a scum bias against him generally because he can be quite an anti-town sort of town player), then I guess Hyper is the place to be for the moment, though I wish we had some actual solid evidence and flip info to go on.
Vote: Hypercube
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Space count as of #735:
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (3): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
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I am here. Will be here intermittently until DL. I do not like the lack of action on the Joseph wagon, but accepting that Robz is IC i will move elsewhere. Need a minute to figure out where that move is.
Is anyone else online?
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Simone switch to hyper cube.
vote: Hypercube
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I am here. Will be here intermittently until DL. I do not like the lack of action on the Joseph wagon, but accepting that Robz is IC i will move elsewhere. Need a minute to figure out where that move is.
Is anyone else online?
I'll be on and off around until deadline.
Of the choices WCD or hypercube, my preferred option is someone else.
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I guess Vote: WCD is the better of the two options
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I guess Vote: WCD is the better of the two options
I don’t think so. Basically anyone on their wagon except Awaclus is the better option.
Vote: hypercube
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Swan coming to try and rescue WCD makes me feel better about our chances of finding scum there.
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I guess Vote: WCD is the better of the two options
For reference, what do you thing of Fang?
I ask because if you don't think that Hypercube is scum, and you assert that you yourself are not scum, then analysis of your D1 5-person wagon points pretty strongly to scum!Fang from my perspective.
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Actually, let's sheep the IC. Vote: hypercube
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@Joseph, does sheeping the IC also imply that you've thought about my question, or are you ignoring it?
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What’s the threshold? Hyper appears to have 6 votes now.
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Also, that was an unannounced L-1 from Joseph.
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What’s the threshold? Hyper appears to have 6 votes now.
Yeah, sorry.. I should've said PPE 1.
Here's the vote count I just ran:
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (6): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Joseph2302
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Swan coming to try and rescue WCD makes me feel better about our chances of finding scum there.
Intent to hammer
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I'm the Tracker
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Tracked Space last night, she didn't target anyone.
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they* sorry Space
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This coyld so easily be a fakeclaim.
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I'm mostly finished my Fang re-read now, and I do feel like he's mostly townie.
Question for the people who've played with him before, though, since I don't currently have time to go and digest one or more other games: was he this plugged into everything others had said, like pointing out where people had said the opposite of what he thought they meant, or pursuing obscure points about other people's scum-hunting strategies? He seems to have put a lot of re-read effort into the game, which could be newbie enthusiasm, but sometimes I feel scum gets the enthusiasm better than town...
Ah, PPE tracker claim.
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Though at the cost of quasi- IC'ing Space. I have to recheck the setup, but from memory I think only scum have targeting roles and their incentives are set up to have each of them target someone. Why didn't you tell us your result sooner?
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Though at the cost of quasi- IC'ing Space. I have to recheck the setup, but from memory I think only scum have targeting roles and their incentives are set up to have each of them target someone. Why didn't you tell us your result sooner?
I tried to hint at it earlier today (posting a strong town read on Space without explanation) in case I got NK'ed. Obviously it's really bad for me to have to claim this early since we don't have protective roles.
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I wish I had thought of this sooner.
Ppe
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Though at the cost of quasi- IC'ing Space. I have to recheck the setup, but from memory I think only scum have targeting roles and their incentives are set up to have each of them target someone. Why didn't you tell us your result sooner?
I tried to hint at it earlier today (posting a strong town read on Space without explanation) in case I got NK'ed. Obviously it's really bad for me to have to claim this early since we don't have protective roles.
Please link to the hint, or give a post number.
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Vote: EFHW
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Vote: EFHW
Vote: EFHW
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This coyld so easily be a fakeclaim.
Who's actually here? Me, EFHW, Joseph PPS and hyper?
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I’m here on and off
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Though at the cost of quasi- IC'ing Space. I have to recheck the setup, but from memory I think only scum have targeting roles and their incentives are set up to have each of them target someone. Why didn't you tell us your result sooner?
I tried to hint at it earlier today (posting a strong town read on Space without explanation) in case I got NK'ed. Obviously it's really bad for me to have to claim this early since we don't have protective roles.
Please link to the hint, or give a post number.
This. I certainly didn't pick up on it.
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Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
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At this point I think Space is town. I somewhat regret moving my vote to them yesterday, I think staying on Joseph and trying to convince people to move there could have been better.
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
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WCD is also likely town.
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Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You don't think scum!hypercube would take that risk given his imminent demise? Only 5 out of 13 people on, and if the real tracker is on and counterclaims they have outed them. I don't follow your point about counter claim tomorrow.
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Awaclus still looks null.
Swan and mcmc have not received enough scrutiny.
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Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You don't think scum!hypercube would take that risk given his imminent demise? Only 5 out of 13 people on, and if the real tracker is on and counterclaims they have outed them. I don't follow your point about counter claim tomorrow.
Both questions have the same answer. Demise is not imminent. Yes they die but the value lies in having influence tomorrow which is immediately lost with a counter claim today or tomorrow.
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
If you think that may actually be the case then vote EFHW.
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I'm potentially here. Still LA so can't say for sure.
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
If you think that may actually be the case then vote EFHW.
Wait, what are you talking about?
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Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You don't think scum!hypercube would take that risk given his imminent demise? Only 5 out of 13 people on, and if the real tracker is on and counterclaims they have outed them. I don't follow your point about counter claim tomorrow.
Both questions have the same answer. Demise is not imminent. Yes they die but the value lies in having influence tomorrow which is immediately lost with a counter claim today or tomorrow.
They lose any ic-ness, but get someone else lynched in their place. Scum!hyper would not have influence if lynched, anyway, so the risk is worth it.
Fake claim would point to WCD being town.
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
If you think that may actually be the case then vote EFHW.
Wait, what are you talking about?
I thought you were implying I might be a bussing scum partner with EFHW. If you want to test that theory then join me in voting EFHW. If she flips scum, great, I will deal with your theory tomorrow.
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Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You don't think scum!hypercube would take that risk given his imminent demise? Only 5 out of 13 people on, and if the real tracker is on and counterclaims they have outed them. I don't follow your point about counter claim tomorrow.
Both questions have the same answer. Demise is not imminent. Yes they die but the value lies in having influence tomorrow which is immediately lost with a counter claim today or tomorrow.
Say he's scum and we we do get a counterclaim:
Option 1: lynch hyper. He's around and active tomorrow, whereas town's real tracker is dead and out of the game immediately.
Option 2: lynch the counterclaim. They're not quite IC tomorrow, but they have a result to claim too, meaning more possibilities for PoE. But Hyper is still alive and involved tomorrow too, which doesn't actually bring us closer to the town wincon.
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
If you think that may actually be the case then vote EFHW.
Wait, what are you talking about?
I thought you were implying I might be a bussing scum partner with EFHW. If you want to test that theory then join me in voting EFHW. If she flips scum, great, I will deal with your theory tomorrow.
Ah, no, I mean you could be a bussing scum partner to Hyper. This kind of fake-claim is very much your style, as I remember from my newbie scum game with you, where you were desperate for some exciting fake-claim action :-P
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Just remembered delayed flip. But still, I don't think he would be trusted tomorrow.
Can an on guillotine player be nk'd?
Real tracker could choose not to counterclaim. Could be worth it.
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I like a good fakeclaim, but that's not really relevant here.
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@hyper, in the game(s) you've played before here, how relevant was breadcrumbing a tracker or other town night-time PR result?
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If hyper is scum, then Joseph and Fang look probtown because of Joseph's early wagon.
EFHW looks reasonably innocent for hesitating here.
PPS looks like a possible partner, though one with heavy bussing.. this sort of a fake-claim plan has a very PPS-is feel to it, though. His move to EFHW makes that feel even more likely.
If you think that may actually be the case then vote EFHW.
Wait, what are you talking about?
I thought you were implying I might be a bussing scum partner with EFHW. If you want to test that theory then join me in voting EFHW. If she flips scum, great, I will deal with your theory tomorrow.
Ah, no, I mean you could be a bussing scum partner to Hyper. This kind of fake-claim is very much your style, as I remember from my newbie scum game with you, where you were desperate for some exciting fake-claim action :-P
Oh, I see. I can’t do anything with that today. Maybe you can see my incorrect interpretation of your post as evidence to the contrary. I am literally voting at people who are voting WCD. That is my MO, here. Hyper was a strong candidate due to having an IC on wagon. Looks like that was a failed wagon thanks to the claim. EFHW is my next favorite.
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If we lynch me, we've basically done all of scum's work for them since they can NK Space. Otherwise we'll most likely have lost all the people whose alignments we know tomorrow.
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@hyper, in the game(s) you've played before here, how relevant was breadcrumbing a tracker or other town night-time PR result?
It hasn't come up before; I was NKed as a PR early last game so it's been in my mind that that might happen again and I should prepare for it.
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If we lynch me, we've basically done all of scum's work for them since they can NK Space. Otherwise we'll most likely have lost all the people whose alignments we know tomorrow.
Towny thoughts but I don’t believe we can consider Space an IC from your claim. I mean it gives strong points but is not somehow a certainty.
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Letting hyper live today is ok with me, actually.
But then who? I don't like how WCD plays, but my scumread on her has been waning.
vote: Dylan?
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Letting hyper live today is ok with me, actually.
But then who? I don't like how WCD plays, but my scumread on her has been waning.
vote: Dylan?
I don’t know if we have enough people present to get a lynch on anyone not hyper or WCD which may mean all present are town since scum is done for the day? Does a lynch go through on the person with the most votes as opposed to surpassing threshold?
I am fine with a Dylan Lynch despite EFHW suggesting it.
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Letting hyper live today is ok with me, actually.
But then who? I don't like how WCD plays, but my scumread on her has been waning.
vote: Dylan?
I don’t know if we have enough people present to get a lynch on anyone not hyper or WCD which may mean all present are town since scum is done for the day? Does a lynch go through on the person with the most votes as opposed to surpassing threshold?
I am fine with a Dylan Lynch despite EFHW suggesting it.
I'm OK with Dylan as well. It is plurality but I'm not sure if we'd have the votes.
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Right now I think I'm at 5, WCD is at 3, Dylan is at 0
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I can vote Dylan
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Vote: Dylan
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Damn, okay. I'm the tracker.
If we're going to let the hyper wagon fall apart, at least lynch me instead. That gets us a D3 IC, plus e who I tracked the first night.
I think hyper's choice of naming me as his target was a little too convenient, so there's a decent chance they're rolecopped me and I'm dead tonight anyway.
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vote: Space
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What are your tracking results, Space?
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Is it better to IC space or kill the role cop right now?
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hmm, wait, this doesn't make sense. looks like I read my pm wrong and it was my flavour that was town. sorry guys!
vote: hypercube
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1. pingpongsam -- possible scum. Check back on his communications with Hyper, and see whether there's a little more familiarity there than beween hyper and other vets.
2. 2.71828..... -- targeted nobody N1, so I've been using that as evidence of towniness.
3. Dylan32 -- under the radar
4. DatSwan -- under the radar
5. Joseph2302 -- less likely to be scum now that we know hyper is. Always seems anti-town to me anyway.
6. infangthief -- less likely to be scum now that hyper is, *and* I expect hyper's scumbuddies to be vets.
7. faust -- dead town.
8. SpaceAnemone -- soon-to-be-dead town
9. Awaclus -- null
10. WestCoastDidds -- prob!town
11. EFHW -- prob!town
12. mcmcsalot -- I'm suspicious.
13. Robz888 -- dead-ish town.
14. hyper -- conf!scum
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Yeah, okay, either space is lying scum which seems super unlikely or space is the IC I already knew them to be. Going into tomorrow with space as IC and hyper damned as scum seems the better bet.
Vote: Space :(
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Hyper just admitted to being scum.
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well, if you guys lynch space then i can use the thread tomorrow to give you updates about how my life is going. or i could post pretty pictures? pretty pictures seem pro-town
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i've always wanted a blog but i think what's been missing is a captive audience
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Vote: hypercube
I have a plan.
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Meh.. maybe it's just best to kill him and make them use their NK on me. I don't think I'd have survived the night either way, given that hyper chose me to declare as his tracking result. That was a good play.
I mean, we could have a super-short day tomorrow and just put him on the block, but then scum still gets two town NKs.
Better to lynch hyper now, and let the town vig have a shot at ICing themself tomorrow, especially if it's one of the null-ish or under-the-radar people who'd help with PoE.
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Oh, PPS got the hammer after all.
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think about what you'd be missing out on though! i have some very pretty pictures
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Two_Coracles_and_Tungabhadra_River.jpg/800px-Two_Coracles_and_Tungabhadra_River.jpg)
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Meh.. maybe it's just best to kill him and make them use their NK on me. I don't think I'd have survived the night either way, given that hyper chose me to declare as his tracking result. That was a good play.
I mean, we could have a super-short day tomorrow and just put him on the block, but then scum still gets two town NKs.
Better to lynch hyper now, and let the town vig have a shot at ICing themself tomorrow, especially if it's one of the null-ish or under-the-radar people who'd help with PoE.
Well, yeah, that was the plan.
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Okay, since I'm going to be immediately dead, here's the whole vote-by-vote history for the game so far. Use it well, fellow townies!
VOTING FOR DAY 1
#58
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (13): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, infangthief, faust, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#65
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (12): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, infangthief, faust, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#70
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
Not Voting (11): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#77
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
faust (1): infangthief
Not Voting (10): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#98
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
faust (1): infangthief
Robz888 (1): EFHW
Not Voting (9): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#101
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
faust (1): infangthief
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (8): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#104
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
faust (1): infangthief
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (7): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#105
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (8): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube, infangthief
#117
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (7): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, hypercube, infangthief
#119
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
DatSwan (1): faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
Not Voting (6): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, hypercube, infangthief
#124
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
Not Voting (6): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, hypercube, infangthief
#125
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (1): Awaclus
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (6): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, hypercube, infangthief
#127
mcmcsalot (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (2): Awaclus, hypercube
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
#129
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
pingpongsam (2): Awaclus, hypercube
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): pingpongsam
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
#136
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
faust (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): hypercube
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
#140
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (1): hypercube
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
#147
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (2): hypercube, EFHW
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, infangthief
#156
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (2): hypercube, EFHW
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): infangthief
Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Robz888
#160
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (2): hypercube, EFHW
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): infangthief
Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., DatSwan, Robz888
#197
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (2): hypercube, EFHW
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., DatSwan, Robz888, infangthief
#204
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): mcmcsalot
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., DatSwan, Robz888
#239
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, faust
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#247
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (3): mcmcsalot, Robz888, faust
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#256
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (3): mcmcsalot, Robz888, faust
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#259
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
pingpongsam (3): hypercube, EFHW, infangthief
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): faust
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#271
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): faust
Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., DatSwan, hypercube
#274
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, hypercube
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (3): Joseph2302, Awaclus, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (1): faust
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#281
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, hypercube
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (2): faust, Awaclus
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#283
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, hypercube
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (3): faust, Awaclus, EFHW
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#294
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#301
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#304
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#305
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., DatSwan
#314
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
#325
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
#336
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (2): Joseph2302, pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
#337
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., pingpongsam
#342
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
pingpongsam (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., pingpongsam
#351
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, infangthief
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (4): faust, Awaclus, EFHW, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., pingpongsam
#357
Joseph2302 (2): SpaceAnemone, infangthief
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (3): faust, Awaclus, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
#366
Joseph2302 (3): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (2): Awaclus, hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
#379
Joseph2302 (3): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
WestCoastDidds (1): hypercube
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#381
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#404
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube, EFHW
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#405
Joseph2302 (5): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube, EFHW
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#414
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#417
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, EFHW
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, faust, hypercube
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#432
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, EFHW, WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, faust, hypercube
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#437
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (4): infangthief, faust, hypercube, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
#442
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (2): DatSwan, SpaceAnemone
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
#446
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
#464
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Joseph2302 (2): infangthief, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, hypercube
#465
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Joseph2302 (2): infangthief, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, hypercube
#467
EFHW (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Joseph2302 (2): infangthief, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, hypercube, mcmcsalot
#471
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Joseph2302 (2): infangthief, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, hypercube
#474
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, hypercube
#477
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
Joseph2302 (2): EFHW, faust
SpaceAnemone (1): hypercube
#489
EFHW (2): Dylan32, mcmcsalot
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, infangthief
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
Joseph2302 (3): EFHW, faust, hypercube
VOTING FOR DAY 2
#495
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
Not Voting (12): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888, hypercube
#496
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
Not Voting (11): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888
#508
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (10): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888
#517
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (9): pingpongsam, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888
#521
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (2): 2.71828....., Joseph2302
Not Voting (8): pingpongsam, DatSwan, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, Robz888
#522
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
Not Voting (7): pingpongsam, DatSwan, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot
#526
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
Not Voting (7): pingpongsam, DatSwan, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot
#536
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (6): pingpongsam, DatSwan, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, mcmcsalot
#552
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): hypercube
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Not Voting (5): pingpongsam, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, mcmcsalot
#553
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Joseph2302 (1): hypercube
Not Voting (5): pingpongsam, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, mcmcsalot
#558
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Joseph2302 (1): hypercube
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (4): pingpongsam, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus
#560
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Joseph2302 (1): hypercube
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
Not Voting (4): pingpongsam, infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus
#563
SpaceAnemone (3): 2.71828....., Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Joseph2302 (1): hypercube
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus
#567
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
Joseph2302 (1): hypercube
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
Dylan32 (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus
#576
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, hypercube
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
Dylan32 (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus
#577
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (3): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, hypercube
Dylan32 (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (4): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, EFHW
#595
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, hypercube
Dylan32 (1): 2.71828.....
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (4): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, Awaclus, EFHW
#601
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, hypercube
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#605
SpaceAnemone (2): Joseph2302, Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, hypercube
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#611
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#615
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (4): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, EFHW
#620
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (4): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
Not Voting (2): infangthief, SpaceAnemone
#636
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): infangthief, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#647
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): infangthief
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#649
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#654
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, hypercube, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#656
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#692
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....
#714
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
#718
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
#720
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (3): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
#721
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (3): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (2): WestCoastDidds, Robz888
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
#722
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (2): WestCoastDidds, Robz888
Not Voting (1): SpaceAnemone
#735
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (3): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
#738
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (4): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#740
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (5): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus, Joseph2302
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (4): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#741
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (5): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus, Joseph2302
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (5): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, pingpongsam
#744
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (6): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Joseph2302
#760
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (5): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302
#785
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
WestCoastDidds (3): infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (5): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): EFHW
#790
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (3): infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (5): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): EFHW, pingpongsam
#792
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (2): infangthief, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (5): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): EFHW, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): hypercube
#795
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (2): infangthief, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (6): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302, hypercube
Dylan32 (2): EFHW, pingpongsam
#797
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (2): infangthief, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (6): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302, hypercube
Dylan32 (1): EFHW
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
#801
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (2): infangthief, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (7): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302, hypercube, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): EFHW
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To clarify, it says "hypercube" when it was Chairs, because the only way my vote counter can handle subs is to assume one name is just another nickname of the other.
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hmm, wait, this doesn't make sense. looks like I read my pm wrong and it was my flavour that was town. sorry guys!
vote: hypercube
You thought you were town tracker?
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hmm, wait, this doesn't make sense. looks like I read my pm wrong and it was my flavour that was town. sorry guys!
vote: hypercube
You thought you were town tracker?
Makes sense except for being in a QT with other scum players bit, really.
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man i've been planning that joke since the beginning and you guys don't even get it
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man i've been planning that joke since the beginning and you guys don't even get it
I got yours but you didn’t get mine.
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man i've been planning that joke since the beginning and you guys don't even get it
I got yours but you didn’t get mine.
i'll try harder next time
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I definitely don’t get it!
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anyways well played Robz, i thought i was doing ok but i had one emotional post and you caught it out
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Sorry for the absense, I was sleeping for 17 hours. Thread Locked
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Vote count 2.final
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (2): infangthief, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (7): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Joseph2302, hypercube, pingpongsam
Dylan32 (1): EFHW
hypercube is on the guillotine.
Night 2 ends Tuesday, 13th of November, at 11am
Robz888 was lynched. he was a Mafia Godfather, a Town Redeemed Soul.
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The one who could never be seen was never seen in the village any more.
SpaceAnemone was killed. They was Mafia Ninja, a Town Tracker
LaLight's BirthDay 3 starts now!
Vote count 3.0
Not voting (11): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, hypercube
hypercube is on the guillotine.
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, 20th of November, at 11am
Thread unlocked!
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Happy birthday, Lalight!!
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Axis_axis_%28Nagarhole%2C_2010%29.jpg)
good morning everyone!
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As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.
-
hypercube was killed. He was a Town Cop, a Mafia Rolecop
For 10 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
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Vote count 3.1
Not voting (10): pingpongsam, 2.71828....., Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
No one is on the guillotine.
With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, 20th of November, at 11am
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As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.
Good to know.
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Uh, yeah, hypercube fake claimed to save his ass. It looked like it might work so Space counter claimed. If we mislynched space then we knew who to kill today. If we killed hypercube then Space was the guaranteed NK which spared the Vig, me, to become IC today.
I wasn't sure if I should let the day develop before pulling the trigger but ultimately I let lalight's availability to coordinate the QT direction with my public reveal decide. I don't think that opportunity was going to come up very often.
-
Meh.. maybe it's just best to kill him and make them use their NK on me. I don't think I'd have survived the night either way, given that hyper chose me to declare as his tracking result. That was a good play.
I mean, we could have a super-short day tomorrow and just put him on the block, but then scum still gets two town NKs.
Better to lynch hyper now, and let the town vig have a shot at ICing themself tomorrow, especially if it's one of the null-ish or under-the-radar people who'd help with PoE.
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As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.
Good to know thanks
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Convince me why you are not scum. I've thought you were possibly scum from D1 but my read on you has worsened since then. The only thing that makes me reconsider right now is that you were beginning to relent on WCD towards the end of day and I don't see the scum narrative for that unless it was a bus which while probably effective seems ill timed.
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.
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I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.
As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?
This could so easily be a fakeclaim.
Vote: EFHW
Vote: EFHW
Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.
No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?
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I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.
As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?
This could so easily be a fakeclaim.
Vote: EFHW
Vote: EFHW
Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.
No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?
That's the scum echo chamber speaking. If I were scum in that scenario I'd kill anyone but Hyper or Space just to force a showdown the next day where we have roughly a 50/50 of getting an easy mislynch.
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I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.
As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?
This could so easily be a fakeclaim.
Vote: EFHW
Vote: EFHW
Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.
Yes, that is what I think (bolded). I can't imagine what I could say that you would accept as indication that I am town.
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I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.
As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?
This could so easily be a fakeclaim.
Vote: EFHW
Vote: EFHW
Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.
You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.
Yes, that is what I think (bolded). I can't imagine what I could say that you would accept as indication that I am town.
You can form damning cases on others all day long but can't form a redeeming case for yourself?
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I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?
Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.
No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?
That's the scum echo chamber speaking. If I were scum in that scenario I'd kill anyone but Hyper or Space just to force a showdown the next day where we have roughly a 50/50 of getting an easy mislynch.
I think scum would kill the real tracker. You are scum-reading me based on speculation of what scum would have done in a hypothetical situation that didn't take place.
PPE: I'm done with this conversation. Anything can be read as scummy if that's what you want to see.
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I think scum would kill the real tracker. You are scum-reading me based on speculation of what scum would have done in a hypothetical situation that didn't take place.
PPE: I'm done with this conversation. Anything can be read as scummy if that's what you want to see.
No, I'm scum reading you for willfully ignoring a mathematically appealing next day forced option. I want to see you make a towny point, I'm even asking you to do so. You are the one refusing to make any positive statements about yourself in favor of trying to discredit my theories. Go back and read where you pressured me for examples of how to defend yourself without pressure flipping on the attacker. Pressure flipping is only a useful tool when you are scum and you are dealing with town who is not an IC.
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PPE: I'm done with this conversation.
What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?
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PPE: I'm done with this conversation.
What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?
Look, I never inquisitioned you. I had an early Day 1 read based on a theory that I now know is wrong. You questioned me, leading to my needing to explain in detail, which got read as pressure. I wasn't trying to tunnel or malign or pressure you. I was stating a scumread and then trying to respond to you as clearly as I could.
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PPE: I'm done with this conversation.
What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?
Look, I never inquisitioned you. I had an early Day 1 read based on a theory that I now know is wrong. You questioned me, leading to my needing to explain in detail, which got read as pressure. I wasn't trying to tunnel or malign or pressure you. I was stating a scumread and then trying to respond to you as clearly as I could.
Understood, but my response was to address your points and answer your questions, not to deflect, pressure flip, or act like this game allows us to choose to ignore publicly posted questions directed at us with no repercussions. Would you prefer that I get back to you with a flat out case on you so you can try to pick it apart that way instead of giving you ample opportunity to present the facts on your own basis?
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EFHW, why do you think hypercube self voted? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear your analysis of that particular play. You are awfully critical of Space's counter claim play despite it resolving into a predictable outcome but make no mention of the fact that hypercube made what might 1st appear to be a terrible play as well.
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I haven’t had time to read most of today yet, but can someone help...
Why did Hyper self vote?
He said Robz caught him out. I’m not seeing that, so some help, please. It looked like Robz just voted for him after so did. What was the “emotional” post?
I’m pleased we caught Hyper and that my scum sense was at least to some degree accurate.
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EFHW, why do you think hypercube self voted? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear your analysis of that particular play. You are awfully critical of Space's counter claim play despite it resolving into a predictable outcome but make no mention of the fact that hypercube made what might 1st appear to be a terrible play as well.
My initial question was exactly this one. Why did he claim scum? Perhaps you thought I was saying why did he claim tracker, which was not my intended question. I think he could have tried to hang in there, but apparently he thought the jig was up. I'm not awfully critical of Space. I'm saying I was surprised because in my mind they had other options.
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I can't believe everyone is just dumbfounded how yesterday played out. I expected people to have theories and ideas. Space made the right play. So did hypercube. They both played to their best outs under the circumstances. What is important is understanding how we cornered hypercube and why he behaved how he did once cornered. Is is possible he just threw his own game? Maybe, but there are better explanations that have to do with follow up wagon analysis.
Looking at the evolution of his wagon and his decision to prevent additional wagon votes is damning to a couple of players in particular.
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Sorry I wasn’t around at deadline had a busier weekend than expected.
Back to vote: efhw the person who has been consistently scummy all game.
Super kudos to robz and the worlds towniest wagon that got the hyper lynch through. A one for one is great for us since we started with a high town percentage.
Not sure now was the best time to use vig but it’s done now so we have an ic for the day and then no powers.
I’m going to reread Dylan and fang but absolutely want to lynch efhw.
Ppe pps: I agree, I think it’s indicative of newbie scum getting nervous of how to play the end. I think it’s very possible his wagon was 100% town.
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I can't believe everyone is just dumbfounded how yesterday played out. I expected people to have theories and ideas. Space made the right play. So did hypercube. They both played to their best outs under the circumstances. What is important is understanding how we cornered hypercube and why he behaved how he did once cornered. Is is possible he just threw his own game? Maybe, but there are better explanations that have to do with follow up wagon analysis.
Looking at the evolution of his wagon and his decision to prevent additional wagon votes is damning to a couple of players in particular.
I am not as dumbfounded by the space claim as I was by the Hyper self-vote, but if he was trying to protect his homies from having to get on the wagon, that makes sense, although it wouldn't have mattered if we had the plurality but perhaps he forgot about that.
I am interested in how he got caught out. I made my case, but I didn't see what Robz picked up on. Hyper said it was an emotional post. Was that the one in response to me when he said I was contorting myself to not continue voting EFHW? Why did everyone else get on him?
Who do you see as off-wagon damning evidence?
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Vote: PPS
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
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Vote: EFHW
I liked it D1 and so far everything in D3 is making me like it more and more
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Well that looked like an exciting end to the day.
Well done everyone, shame to lose Space, but I think a good result overall. Good work WCD starting that wagon.
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
Yeah, if we lynch me today we get an IC again tomorrow!
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
Yeah, if we lynch me today we get an IC again tomorrow!
Can you explain for the kid(s) on the short bus?
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
Yeah, if we lynch me today we get an IC again tomorrow!
The value in IC is for scumhunting. If we plan to lynch you today, we won't get any value from your IC-ness until tomorrow because no scumhunting will happen today.
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
Yeah, if we lynch me today we get an IC again tomorrow!
Crazy talk. An IC is good, but surely not worth a mislynch.
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Vote: PPS
Wait what?
Yeah, if we lynch me today we get an IC again tomorrow!
The value in IC is for scumhunting. If we plan to lynch you today, we won't get any value from your IC-ness until tomorrow because no scumhunting will happen today.
Exactly the same point as you made to my lynch faust day 1 suggestion. At least that plan involved a possibility of lynching scum.
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I swear the jokes go so far over your guys' heads I can't even find them funny anymore.
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But I was kind of hoping someone would sheep me, anyway.
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Okie dokie. 2 days out of DL or so we have this ugly af vote count. (the coloring is not put in by LaLight, I have changed it for the purpose of illustrating this post based on info).
Vote count 2.3
SpaceAnemone (1):, Robz888
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus,
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (2): EFHW, infangthief
DatSwan (2): pingpongsam, hypercube
Then there is this Space Count 1 day later - about a day from DL:
Space count as of #735:
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
DatSwan (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (3): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone
Not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
From here:
Swan moves to Hypercube
Joseph moves to WCD
PPs moves to Hypercube
Joseph moves to Hypercube
Which leaves us at the below, a few hours from DL:
infangthief (1): Dylan32
EFHW (1): mcmcsalot
WestCoastDidds (4): EFHW, infangthief, hypercube, Awaclus
pingpongsam (1): 2.71828.....
hypercube (6): WestCoastDidds, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Joseph2302
Sorry for the long post, my intention is to make the VC's easy to reference for the points below.
From my PoV, there were two unknown players on the hypercube wagon at this point (WCD and Joseph).
- There is one viable wagon to use as defense at this point (WCD).
- WCD obviously is not going to switch to WCD. So, either WCD is Town following their wagon, or they are Skum and got stuck in a situation that they can't get out of. Because of the interactions between WCD and hypercube... I am strongly leaning Town on WCD at this point.
- Joseph could of switched to WCD, but chose to stay on hypercube. So, kind of the same thing (with the addition that I am strongly leaning Town on WCD now). Therefore, if Joseph was skum, they would of had to chose to stay on their skum buddy hypercube instead of trying to counter wagon WCD. The exception here would I guess be if the team is [hypercube, WCD, Joseph]... which I find highly unlikely. Because of this... I am dropping my previous read on Joseph, and for now taking them as a town read.
Now I get that that is a lot of assuming based on info without flips, which typically is not a good idea... but I pretty strongly believe in my logic to this point. It is because of that that I arrive at the concept of "all 6 at this point on hypercube were town".
From here a few very important things happen:
- EFHW claims intent to hammer
- PPS moves off of hypercube (bringing him to L-2)
- EFHW moves off of WCD to Dylan (as the only vote on Dylan)
- PPS follows EFHW to Dylan. This puts it at hypercube(5), WCD(3), Dylan(2)
Space then makes the pro play of the game thus far and claims, due to the dismantling of the hypercube wagon. This again brings up the point of triangles based on assumption of roles. We know PPS is town now, so their moves are read as so. The only other person moving around at this point is EFHW - Who moves off of WCD when hypercube has dropped to L-2. This, to me at least, is super suspicious. They claimed intent to hammer, then there is a claim and counter claim, and then they randomly go and attempt to create a new wagon on Dylan? That is weird to me.
If EFHW is Town, WCD is Town, and hypercube is skum... why would this counter claim cause EFHW to not put hypercube at L-1? However, to be fair, if EFHW is skum.. why would they not either choose to do nothing, or accept that it is gonna be either Space or hypercube and either try for Space or buss hypercube? *That is a real question I think should be answered btw - Like... EFHW, what was your thought process on voting Dylan at this point so close to DL after there was a claim and a CC?*
All that being said, while now, at this point, I would in fact be OK with going for EFHW just to be sure. However, it should also be noted that while I do town read WCD at this point, that there are a multitude of skum teams that can be reasonably created that contain [hypercube, WCD, X].
Since we have the delayed flip, and correctly imo have used the vig shot, my pool currently exists as something like [EFHW] or [2.7, MCMC, Dylan]. The second grouping is strongly influenced by the vote counts of Day 1.
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Also, this post from hypercube just before the claims started, makes me feel additionally confident in my town read on WCD.
Swan coming to try and rescue WCD makes me feel better about our chances of finding scum there.
If they knew I am Town and WCD is Skum, they would never make this post. If they knew I am Town and WCD is Town, they would make this post. And I suppose, just to be fair, if I was skum with hypercube, they may also make this post... but either way it again would argue lots of town points awarded to WCD.
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I moved to Dylan before the counterclaim.
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Scum!me would have voted WCD.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
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And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
I should have said would have stayed on WCD. I agree with DatSwan's conclusion that WCD is town. Scum!me would have been happy on her wagon.
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I am busy for most of the day but hope to post up something good this afternoon. I am on forum time. If EFHW is scum I want to try to link no more than 2 likely partners. I also want to form a strong to weak list of potential scum players if EFHW is town.
I will admit that most of my analysis will be predicated on both WCD and Joseph being town. I will attempt to loom past that but some risk must be taken to limit the scope of the review to something more useful. I think the biggest question in this case is whether they can both be town because that would clearly make all other analysis failed. Asked on yesterday’s outcome and my reads up to that point I think assuming one or both to be town is a reasonable course of action.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.
And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.
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I am busy for most of the day but hope to post up something good this afternoon. I am on forum time. If EFHW is scum I want to try to link no more than 2 likely partners. I also want to form a strong to weak list of potential scum players if EFHW is town.
When I get time I’ll do a full re-read for efhw partners but currently fang is top of my list, Dylan and awaclus are closely behind. Efhw’s strange move to Dylan could be a subtle attempt to bus, Dylan is in no danger so why not sit a vote on your partner.
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Sorry I missed the end of the day and haven't done anything to start out today. Need to do a reread in light of the flips/IC that we have. PPS' play makes sense that I read him as scum when he is actually a PR.
Not sold on EFHW as scum still based on what I posted yesterday, but again- need to look back at things with the new info
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.
I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.
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I am busy for most of the day but hope to post up something good this afternoon. I am on forum time. If EFHW is scum I want to try to link no more than 2 likely partners. I also want to form a strong to weak list of potential scum players if EFHW is town.
When I get time I’ll do a full re-read for efhw partners.
Can I just remind you that you've been in this place before about me, and I was town? It's happening again. PPS says "if" I am scum, "if" I am town. You say you're looking for my partners, like there is no if about me being scum.
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.
That doesn't clear me though
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I will admit that most of my analysis will be predicated on both WCD and Joseph being town.
I'm on board with the assumption re: WCD. But why Joseph? Because of Robz's read? Because the scum-reading of WCD was based on Joseph being scum?
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
You are telling me that you have never read someone as scum and they turned out to be a PR?
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.
That doesn't clear me though
It does greatly reduce the likelihood that you are scum. For you to be scum, mafia would have had to give up using one of their powers. We have some reason to think they used the Rolecop N1, when Space tracked you.
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Are you ready for one of my arcane theories? I'm thinking scum!Joseph knows I am town. He mimics my post, consciously or not, to seem towny. But when PPS and mcmc come out strongly against me, he opportunistically jumps on my wagon. I'd say town!Joseph would do the same if he strongly townread me, but town!Joseph seems to think I am scum. Would he then mimic my post, consciously or not?
As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.
Good to know.
As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.
Good to know thanks
Vote: EFHW
I liked it D1 and so far everything in D3 is making me like it more and more
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The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.
Vote: hypercube
@Joseph: Why did this post lead you to vote hypercube?
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And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then
I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.
I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}
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1. pingpongsam -- possible scum. Check back on his communications with Hyper, and see whether there's a little more familiarity there than beween hyper and other vets. CONFIRM TOWN
2. 2.71828..... -- targeted nobody N1, so I've been using that as evidence of towniness.
3. Dylan32 -- under the radar
4. DatSwan -- under the radar
5. Joseph2302 -- less likely to be scum now that we know hyper is. Always seems anti-town to me anyway.
6. infangthief -- less likely to be scum now that hyper is, *and* I expect hyper's scumbuddies to be vets.
7. faust -- dead town.
8. SpaceAnemone -- soon-to-be-dead town
9. Awaclus -- null
10. WestCoastDidds -- prob!town
11. EFHW -- prob!town
12. mcmcsalot -- I'm suspicious.
13. Robz888 -- dead-ish town.
14. hyper -- conf!scum
I'm quoting this to bring it forward so its easier to find. (I added colors and a note about PPS) So, Space would have us look more carefully at Mcmc and Dylan, and I think add Awaclus to that list too since he has been so absent and on me so frequently. Cursory reread has Mcmc more towny than the other two.
I didn't find EFHW's move to Dylan scummy...it happened after the claim and before the CC and it was more of an idea for a lynch rather than a deliberate move, at least the way I read it. I also think Fang tends to buddy because of the kind of person he is. I think I tend to do it, too, for the same reason. But Space's reading of him was based on the idea that scum wasn't two of the new folks, so he is not completely in the clear.
Any thoughts on Dylan or Awaclus?
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And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then
I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.
I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}
Why no mcmc? Also you just seemed to question Joseph's alignment but he is not in the pool?
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I will admit that most of my analysis will be predicated on both WCD and Joseph being town.
I'm on board with the assumption re: WCD. But why Joseph? Because of Robz's read? Because the scum-reading of WCD was based on Joseph being scum?
I've town read Joseph since the perceived town slip D1. All the negative attention he has received has looked like town getting dog piled and his reactions to all of it have been towny. In fact, I don't recall a single thing Joseph did that did not solidify my town read. I am admittedly town tunneling Joseph but at this point I feel like it is a smart assumption to put a pin in for otherwise finding scum. I have had reservations that if Joseph is scum and they win the gloat he will have on me constantly steering us away from him. I'm out of the game after tonight and I sincerely hope to hit scum today. I see him becoming fair game after today.
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Well now I want to reread 2.7 more than I did before because that’s a scummy post and mostly for the read justification on pps.
Space tracked e and got that he targeted no one.
That doesn't clear me though
It does greatly reduce the likelihood that you are scum. For you to be scum, mafia would have had to give up using one of their powers. We have some reason to think they used the Rolecop N1, when Space tracked you.
Yea I forgot this, while it’s possible that scum roleblocked space I think that’s extremely unlikely and more unlikely scum!E would have not taken an action night 1. So pretty confident in town!E.
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I am busy for most of the day but hope to post up something good this afternoon. I am on forum time. If EFHW is scum I want to try to link no more than 2 likely partners. I also want to form a strong to weak list of potential scum players if EFHW is town.
When I get time I’ll do a full re-read for efhw partners.
Can I just remind you that you've been in this place before about me, and I was town? It's happening again. PPS says "if" I am scum, "if" I am town. You say you're looking for my partners, like there is no if about me being scum.
This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.
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I also have been interested in the Joseph situation. Done a reread of interactions between chairs/hypercube and Joseph. Key areas are:
1. Early day 1 Joseph was the first one on chairs wagon, there was a bit of exchange between them, ending in Joseph stating that chairs was "Currently the most preferred option" for day 1 lynch. At that time chairs was on 3 votes and it was just under 3 days until deadline. (#234)
2. chairs was replaced by hypercube, whose first action was to vote Joseph. (#274)
3. When hypercube argued against the case on chairs, Joseph voted hypercube then realised hypercube = chairs and said 'definitely happy with my vote there'. (#349)
4. End of day 1, hypercube likes the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon (#380), joins as 4th on the wagon (making it the leading wagon) and is still happy with his vote on Joseph when the wagons are Joseph 5, EFHW 3, Robz 3. (#406). This is 6 hours before deadline.
5. Near the D1 deadline, hypercube follows faust from Joseph to Space (D-30mins), says he's 'obviously willing to go back' (D-5mins) and actually does go back (D-2mins). Wagons are Robz 6, Joseph 3.
6. Day 2, hypercube says it could have been better to get more people onto Joseph at end of day 1 (#519), thinks lynching Joseph would give us a good deal of information (#553) and wonders why other people are certain that Joseph is town (#571). Moves from Joseph to EFHW in deference to IC Robz. (#576)
7. Joseph suggests a hyper-space team (#520)
8. Near the D2 deadline, Joseph would prefer neither WCD nor hypercube (#739), but votes WCD (better of the two) to put the wagons at WCD 5, hyper 4.
9. PPS disagrees with Joseph, then Joseph votes for hypercube ("Actually, let's sheep the IC"), to put the wagons at hyper 6, WCD 4.
Now, there are a couple of things that make me think they could be partners - basically items 5 and 8 above.
But overall there's been a lot more of them voting for each other than I would expect if they were partners. Item 4 especially makes it look unlikely.
So no, count me out of a Joseph lynch.
PPE: 3
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And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then
I guess this explains it. Sorry for all the stream of consciousness.
I'll set my lynchpool for today at: {Dylan, Awaclus, Fang}
Why no mcmc? Also you just seemed to question Joseph's alignment but he is not in the pool?
I realized that he was consistently anti-chairs Day 1. Could be a ploy, but I don't see that as a strong possibility.
mcmc tunnels me as town. It's possible he thinks he can get me mislynched, but there are easier targets.
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And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.
I would like to bet that I read it more thoroughly than you.
The things I found odd were:
- that his timeline about EFHW's vote on Dylan was wrong. It would be obvious to anyone who'd read and tried to understand yesterday's end of day.
- his comments about Joseph's voting choices at the end of the day. Saying Joseph could have switched to WCD and didn't, therefore Joseph is likely to be town. No comment on the fact that Joseph did actually go for WCD to begin with, and only came across to hypercube when his vote choice was criticised by PPS.
You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.
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This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.
It was Okkervil mafia
@mcmc - remember for next time that I was town here!
Yea, I was surprised even at the end. I have to go back and see exactly why I scumread you.
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Guys, I'm super sorry. Had a work conference today that had me VLA, forgot to post about it, and I have some stuff I have to get done before tomorrow morning, so I won't be able to catch up tonight and have a really busy day tomorrow, so I'm basically LA until Monday.
Request prod on Dylan
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@fang: Have you played mafia other places?
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No need to send prod. I'll catch up this afternoon.
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Vote: fang
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.
I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.
Maybe I'll explain why I've been trusting you.
I thought you made an ultra towny response to my lynch faust day 1 suggestion. Then when you started questioning PPS based on his response to one of my questions, I thought, this is good, multi-person dynamics, better than the 1v1s I found myself doing in my other game. So I think I've been inclined to see the towniness and reasonableness of what you've said since.
It seems helpful to have someone to trust a bit. I think in NM13 I found myself trusting LaLight... and he ended up being scum. So yes at some point I will need to do a critical reread. Maybe now's the time for that. Then I might have some objective reasons for joining your wagon or arguing against it.
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I reread Awaclus, and it is about what you would expect...very little information. Absent a couple of back and forths with me about why I am town, and encouraging Fang to vote chairs(hyper), there hasn't been a lot of interaction. He also hasn't been on any of the lynch wagons.
The votes on chairs are interesting since we know he was scum. He proposed chairs, pushed Fang toward it, but then left it and wasn't part of actually lynching him. He has mostly voted for me, but I can't really figure out what. He has repeated that his town meta is to help town, but I am not sure he is meeting that threshold. I don't see anything helpful here.
For those of you who have played with him before, what is he like as scum?
Here is an abbreviated history- he has 33 total posts. All of his votes are just votes, no explanation.
101- vote PPS
136- vote chairs
137- says Fangs 133 comments is correct
139- clarifies that he was agreeing with Fang
266- tells Fang to start pushing chairs (hyper)
276- In response to Fang, says he won’t share chairs (hyper) case
281- vote WCD
340- It is my town meta to convince people to be productive and share info that helps town and doesn't help scum.
378- asks Mcmc is he is scum partners with WCD
379- vote mcmc
Day 2
601- vote Dylan
722- vote WCD
Day 3
892- vote Fang
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And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.
I would like to bet that I read it more thoroughly than you.
The things I found odd were:
- that his timeline about EFHW's vote on Dylan was wrong. It would be obvious to anyone who'd read and tried to understand yesterday's end of day.
- his comments about Joseph's voting choices at the end of the day. Saying Joseph could have switched to WCD and didn't, therefore Joseph is likely to be town. No comment on the fact that Joseph did actually go for WCD to begin with, and only came across to hypercube when his vote choice was criticised by PPS.
You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.
To clarify something: The bolded question to EFHW I asked regarding why they would of switched off wagon was, in hindsight, very poorly worded. My intention was for it to come off as "why move after the claim, and then not move back to a wagon after the CC".
- The clarification is seemingly unimportant to EFHW's alignment - The point that EFHW as skum would of probably gone for WCD is a decent point.
- More importantly, I find the scrutiny of your second observation fairly backwards. The fact that PPS scrutinized his vote choice is just a random player saying something about the vote at that point (as PPS was not IC'd at that point). Furthermore, I do not consider Joseph's actions "going after WCD". They stated they did not like either wagon, then voted WCD for 4 posts/2 hours worth of time, then moved and stayed on hypercube.
So in summary - no. I did not miss anything, I just write like a 4th grader. And I disagree with you second point.
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I reread Awaclus, and it is about what you would expect...very little information. Absent a couple of back and forths with me about why I am town, and encouraging Fang to vote chairs(hyper), there hasn't been a lot of interaction. He also hasn't been on any of the lynch wagons.
The votes on chairs are interesting since we know he was scum. He proposed chairs, pushed Fang toward it, but then left it and wasn't part of actually lynching him. He has mostly voted for me, but I can't really figure out what. He has repeated that his town meta is to help town, but I am not sure he is meeting that threshold. I don't see anything helpful here.
For those of you who have played with him before, what is he like as scum?
Here is an abbreviated history- he has 33 total posts. All of his votes are just votes, no explanation.
101- vote PPS
136- vote chairs
137- says Fangs 133 comments is correct
139- clarifies that he was agreeing with Fang
266- tells Fang to start pushing chairs (hyper)
276- In response to Fang, says he won’t share chairs (hyper) case
281- vote WCD
340- It is my town meta to convince people to be productive and share info that helps town and doesn't help scum.
378- asks Mcmc is he is scum partners with WCD
379- vote mcmc
Day 2
601- vote Dylan
722- vote WCD
Day 3
892- vote Fang
Votes without reason is NAI for Awaclus.
It is annoying, but I am fairly certain no one is going to argue with the statement.
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The bolded question to EFHW I asked regarding why they would of switched off wagon was, in hindsight, very poorly worded. My intention was for it to come off as "why move after the claim, and then not move back to a wagon after the CC".
- The clarification is seemingly unimportant to EFHW's alignment - The point that EFHW as skum would of probably gone for WCD is a decent point.
I was no longer online at the time of the counterclaim.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.
I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.
So in general, I have continued to find EFHW scummy through D3 so far, but this post just stuck out. The "when you are all alone as town" bit seems a bit convenient of a word-choice after e's comment the other day comparing and contrasting a "me against the world" vs a "me and my team trying to nail down townies as lynches" (post 690). But generally this just feels like EFHW was trying to ride the town-read/general agreement until it was pointed out as potentially making her look scummy if fang turns out as scum.
On a different note:
...
I can claim now, if people would like?
Have people forgotten that Joseph seemed to want to claim something and yet all the town PRs are accounted for?
Vig=pps
Tracker=Space
Redeemed Soul=Robz
Would Joseph have actually posted this question if he was just going to claim VT?
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There is still a scum Roleblocker out there, and Joseph might have been planning a fake tracker claim.
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I'm still town-reading e, but if EFHW is lynched and flips scum, e would look really partnery through most of the game.
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Personal preference, but I find it scummy when non-ICs make themselves green when putting together vote counts/patterns, lists, wagon analysis, etc. It just feels manipulative. You may very well actually be town, but the rest of us have no way of knowing that, and so just make your arguments with yourself colored to reflect that, then let the logic of your argument go where it will, and then we will of course know that you aren't going to include yourself in that list. Noticed this in DatSwan's wall of text earlier, which I'm not quoting for space.
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Apologies for being absent. My students took up more time than expected with the Halloween Holiday.
I will have more detail in the morning.
However, for now, the core point, for me at least... is that skum could not of known that Robz was IC (therefore they did not expect to have to deal with a Town flip on Day 2).
The main wagons seemed to be Joseph and Robz. There is no way of knowing whether or not they are BOTH town or not (something that Skum would know). So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.
Reading Datswan and this post includes more of what scum would know or be thinking than is normal. Scummy
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I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus... Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.
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I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus... Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.
To clarify the first sentence, looking at the static list of the final wagon, I thought Swan might be busing based on wagon position, but ... the rest of what I said.
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For now Vote: EFHW.
IC: pps
Won't lynch: Swan, e, WCD
Probably town not conf!town: Joseph
Neutral: mcmc, Awaclus
Would lynch: fang
Really want to lynch: EFHW
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Why isn't e on the probably town list?
What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?
What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?
You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.
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Scratch the question about e, I see he is on your won't lynch list. Still hoping for answers to the rest of my questions.
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I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.
I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.
So in general, I have continued to find EFHW scummy through D3 so far, but this post just stuck out. The "when you are all alone as town" bit seems a bit convenient of a word-choice after e's comment the other day comparing and contrasting a "me against the world" vs a "me and my team trying to nail down townies as lynches" (post 690). But generally this just feels like EFHW was trying to ride the town-read/general agreement until it was pointed out as potentially making her look scummy if fang turns out as scum.
On a different note:
...
I can claim now, if people would like?
Have people forgotten that Joseph seemed to want to claim something and yet all the town PRs are accounted for?
Vig=pps
Tracker=Space
Redeemed Soul=Robz
Would Joseph have actually posted this question if he was just going to claim VT?
It was a joke.
Although if there PRs left, I was also hoping it might drag them into killing me thinking I was a PR
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This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.
It was Okkervil mafia
@mcmc - remember for next time that I was town here!
Yea, I was surprised even at the end. I have to go back and see exactly why I scumread you.
Okay so upon reflection of that game I actually just have to say sorry. My case on you there was pretty strong omgus. You we’re misreading me and I felt like you were exaggerating what I was doing and eventually voted me for pressuring galz without voting and over defending twm, which would be scummy things to do but I felt I wasn’t doing them and hen omgussed you.
It is important to note in that game I died night one. So there wasn’t any evolution to my case on you or really a case at all, just a scum read and a town read on our other primary wagon(who did turn out to be town).
With that in mind I think this game my very very early read on you is for similar reasons, I though you were scummily pushing wagons I didn’t like. But it’s evolved to include the actual wagon analysis from 2 days and continued scummy actions from you regarding those wagons. I’m comfortable with my vote where it is.
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And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.
[snip]
You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.
I get what you are saying here but it’s scummy not to come to that conclusion in your original analysis. You analyze what he says and then get really wish-washy by saying he comes to strange conclusions but that could just be him being him. It’s throwing shade without having to commit to a real stance on swan that would allow you to let it go or ramp it up if other players go yea I agree that’s strange and scummy.
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@fang: Have you played mafia other places?
I would very much like the answer to this.
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Why isn't e on the probably town list?
What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?
What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?
You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.
You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind. So yeah for you it's not just the all alone as town, that's just the most recent addition. The string of posts was as I was reading and noticing different things, so if you would read them in order like that, you would see that I'm seeing Swan as scummy, but then:
I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus... Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.
That cancelled out the rest of the stuff to the point I'm willing to just tip my hat at the end of the day if Swan is actually scum, because I just don't see it.
With Joseph, I actually just agreed with a lot of the reasons people have been giving for him being town, most notably the cube interactions, but I noticed that claim comment and wanted to hit pause for a sec and get an explanation. So I still think simplest solution is probably that he's town, but (re: Joseph's explanation) nobody seemed to take it as a joke when you said it, but it's plausible enough to not worry about now.
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And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.
Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.
[snip]
You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.
I get what you are saying here but it’s scummy not to come to that conclusion in your original analysis. You analyze what he says and then get really wish-washy by saying he comes to strange conclusions but that could just be him being him. It’s throwing shade without having to commit to a real stance on swan that would allow you to let it go or ramp it up if other players go yea I agree that’s strange and scummy.
Agree with mcmc in this thread.
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Post count (includes pre game because on mobile)
Infangthief - 96
WestCoastDids - 91
EFHW - 90
pingpongsam - 83
mcmcsalot - 65
Joseph2302 - 63
2.7 - 52
awaclus - 35
Dylan32 - 31
DatSwan - 22
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Vote count 3.Didds
EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus
Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW
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Why isn't e on the probably town list?
What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?
What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?
You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.
You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind.
But how were we scummy? PPS and mcmc have their reasons (that are wrong, but they're putting some thought into it). You just say "you're scummy". Do you have details in mind or are you using them for cover and hopping on a popular wagon?
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Vote count 3.Didds
EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus
Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW
The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability
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@fang: Have you played mafia other places?
No. Well, a few games of real life mafia 15 years ago, if that counts.
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Vote count 3.Didds
EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus
Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW
The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability
Yes, efhw is at l-2 and deadline is not until Tuesday so we don’t have to worry about a weekend low activity issue.
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@fang: Have you played mafia other places?
No. Well, a few games of real life mafia 15 years ago, if that counts.
Well this is more indicative of fang defending efhw as a partner or at least coached scum!fang when it comes to the idea that fang could be buddying efhw to look like a partner on purpose.
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Vote count 3.Didds
EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus
Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW
The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability
Corrct. 5= lynch
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Part way through my EFHW reread, near end of day 1. Will resume later, looking towny for now.
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Aiming to look more tonight, V/LA tomorrow til Monday
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Howdy- I will be away from regular internet access until Sunday.
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For my bourbon-loving friends...this weekend I’m going to the Garrison Brothers distillery where we help with the bottling and labeling. Fingers crossed for awesome!
Swan isn’t contributing much, but when he does it feels town. Same with Dylan. I’m interested in others reads of them.
My plan for while I’m gone is to read EFHW and Fang more carefully.
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Sorry, work has been crazy this week.
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Sorry, work has been crazy this week.
Same here, should come up for air early after noon tomorrow.
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For my bourbon-loving friends...this weekend I’m going to the Garrison Brothers distillery where we help with the bottling and labeling. Fingers crossed for awesome!
Swan isn’t contributing much, but when he does it feels town. Same with Dylan. I’m interested in others reads of them.
My plan for while I’m gone is to read EFHW and Fang more carefully.
2 things
1) Totally fair I have been playing catch up all game.
2) Do you live in TX? Have you been there before? It is AMAZING!! I did a brief marketing consultation stint with a company that GBD contracted a while ago and they brought us out and gave us a tour and it is just so freeking cool! You for sure are gonna have a good time.
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yeah so brief re read on 2.7 and its finding combined with Space having no result on them puts them at unlynchable status for me today. Just stating because they were previously put in my potential lynch pool.
Nothing crazy in the re read (before someone asks)... just nothing damning either.
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@fang: Have you played mafia other places?
No. Well, a few games of real life mafia 15 years ago, if that counts.
Well this is more indicative of fang defending efhw as a partner or at least coached scum!fang when it comes to the idea that fang could be buddying efhw to look like a partner on purpose.
... I mean or it could be skum!fang being coached by anyone.... why does it have to be EFHW? EFHW could just be inquiring as town.
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Finished my reread of EFHW. Got some questions to do with end of day 2:
1.
I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.
But I think this could do with some more explanation:
Scum!me would have voted WCD.
I should have said would have stayed on WCD. I agree with DatSwan's conclusion that WCD is town. Scum!me would have been happy on her wagon.
Are you saying that scum!you would have been happy staying on WCD while your partner hypercube went on to be lynched?
2.
Though at the cost of quasi- IC'ing Space. I have to recheck the setup, but from memory I think only scum have targeting roles and their incentives are set up to have each of them target someone. Why didn't you tell us your result sooner?
I wish I had thought of this sooner.
Why?
3.
Damn, okay. I'm the tracker.
If we're going to let the hyper wagon fall apart, at least lynch me instead. That gets us a D3 IC, plus e who I tracked the first night.
I think hyper's choice of naming me as his target was a little too convenient, so there's a decent chance they're rolecopped me and I'm dead tonight anyway.
What do you think of the comment Space made about rolecopping?
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Vote: Awaclus
Early day 2 I did a reread and concluded that he'd been very reasonable, helpful even, on day 1. More so than in NM13, when he was town. So yes, town. And I think a few people stated they found him towny.
Since then... next to nothing. Get a towny read and then no need to engage any more? Sounds like an effective scum play.
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Vote: Awaclus
Early day 2 I did a reread and concluded that he'd been very reasonable, helpful even, on day 1. More so than in NM13, when he was town. So yes, town. And I think a few people stated they found him towny.
Since then... next to nothing. Get a towny read and then no need to engage any more? Sounds like an effective scum play.
Awaclus is Awaclus. The case on him needs to show partnering with scum or strongly suspected scum, I think.
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That said Awaclus is a busser. Takes one to know one, lol.
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In answer to fang:
1. I had lots of cover for being on that wagon. I had expressed scum reads on WCD and would be safer from suspicion on that wagon than on any other besides Hyper's.
2. I would have suggested that the tracker claim regardless of result bc their target would be close to IC.
3. I see how their theory about being rolecopped led them to claim. I don't see much motivation for hyper to use his rolecop target as his fakeclaim target, though.
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3. Continued ... It was his bad luck that Space was tracker and was online. I figured he was hoping the real tracker would be away and unable to counterclaim.
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Vote: Awaclus
Early day 2 I did a reread and concluded that he'd been very reasonable, helpful even, on day 1. More so than in NM13, when he was town. So yes, town. And I think a few people stated they found him towny.
Since then... next to nothing. Get a towny read and then no need to engage any more? Sounds like an effective scum play.
I'd like to point out that by "since then...", you mean "since Renaissance was released".
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Vote count 3.2
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302, Dylan32
pingpongsam (1): pingpongsam
infangthief (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): infangthief
Not voting (4): 2.71828....., DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW
No one is on the guillotine.
With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, 20th of November, at 11am. Sorry fior my absence, at the conference rn.
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Vote: Dylan
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Looking at the last vote count I can’t help but think Awaclus and fang have distancing votes on each other while town does the dirty work.
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In answer to fang:
1. I had lots of cover for being on that wagon. I had expressed scum reads on WCD and would be safer from suspicion on that wagon than on any other besides Hyper's.
2. I would have suggested that the tracker claim regardless of result bc their target would be close to IC.
3. I see how their theory about being rolecopped led them to claim. I don't see much motivation for hyper to use his rolecop target as his fakeclaim target, though.
You are saying some bizarre things. Especially your answer to number 2.
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In answer to fang:
1. I had lots of cover for being on that wagon. I had expressed scum reads on WCD and would be safer from suspicion on that wagon than on any other besides Hyper's.
2. I would have suggested that the tracker claim regardless of result bc their target would be close to IC.
3. I see how their theory about being rolecopped led them to claim. I don't see much motivation for hyper to use his rolecop target as his fakeclaim target, though.
You are saying some bizarre things. Especially your answer to number 2.
Is that a question?
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I think fang could be trying to set up a switch to my wagon. PPS, do you actually have scumreads on fang and Awaclus?
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This is pretty much a prod dodge, as it is the weekend. Did a Joseph re read though in that time though. Nothing came from it that I haven't already said - pretty much now that we know Hypercube was skum, I find it unlikely that Joseph is also skum.
Additionally, I have re-enforced my opinion that if EFHW is skum, Joseph is probably town. And I am thinking we find skum in EFHW at this point, so Joseph is pretty much off my list.
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I am gonna finish my last 2 reads tomorrow, I will post what I find relevant on Monday sometime.
I don't want to put an L-1 out there this early, but you can consider my vote on EFHW.
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Voting for EFHW is silly. I know I am already any IC, but when EFHW flips town I will be even more conf!town.
Someone please just make a case better than "EFHW is playing well"
Like, just read Dylan. 3rd on EFHW, feels the need to "build a case" and is just so conveniently voting a popular wagon. So scummy. If Dylan flips town I will consider voting efhw tomorrow.
Also, several drinks in (lost count). More later
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I lied don't have anything else for tonight. I just strongly object to lynching EFHW
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Good morning, folks!
Swan, I am in Texas! About an hour away from GBD between San Antonio and Austin. I had been there before, but nit to help with production. It was awesome. The owner was there yesterday just hanging out and chatting. So cool. Plus, bourbon.
So, this morning I have been rereading the interactions with Hypercube. Over the course of chairs/hyper he voted for PPS, EFHW, WCD, Space, Swan, and Joseph with some degree of regularity. I think as a new scum, it’s likely that set of folks is town.
He doesn’t vote for Dylan, Awaclus, e, or Fang much or engage with them. So, I’m thinking about that set of folks more seriously. I need to read more carefully, but for right now vote: Dylan
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I never got an answer to this:
Why isn't e on the probably town list?
What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?
What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?
You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.
You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind.
But how were we scummy? PPS and mcmc have their reasons (that are wrong, but they're putting some thought into it). You just say "you're scummy". Do you have details in mind or are you using them for cover and hopping on a popular wagon?
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I never got an answer to this:
Why isn't e on the probably town list?
What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?
What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?
You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.
You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind.
But how were we scummy? PPS and mcmc have their reasons (that are wrong, but they're putting some thought into it). You just say "you're scummy". Do you have details in mind or are you using them for cover and hopping on a popular wagon?
How were you not scummy?
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I've explained my actions at length by this point, so you should find an answer to your question in my previous posts. To summarize, I have been scumhunting.
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I have now finished reads on EFHW, Dylan, and MCMC. I am doing a WCD now, but need to stop because I have to go out and I want to post something while it is fresh in my head.
EFHW - I have posted pretty much all my opinons on EFHW prior to this, so I am not gonna waste the space. To summarize... If I read them through Day 3 and a half... they are the skummiest skum that has ever skummed... But most of it is by association. For the last half a day they have done an excellent job of both defending themselves and attempting to hunt at the same time. We would have quite a bit to look back on regarding Fang, Dylan, WCD, Joseph, (and I should put in) myself... based on a EFHW flip. Combine that with I do think there is a decent chance they flip red - EFHW remains in my lynchpool.
Dylan - They have been pushing EFHW from Day 1. I mention this because EFHW is such a popular target right now. Dylan's flip could be valuable to identifying EFHW's alignment. They have provided content in pretty much the same fashion I have this game - this is to say they are not around and then catch up all in one burst. Attempting to look past the frequency in the posting, and instead focusing on the content... Dylan is a complicated decision.
The only skum points I can assign is their absence plus the fact that they have provided reads lists on an updated basis fairly consistently, and the only alterations are those players that have not been essentially IC'd (or actually IC'd) and then Joseph.
MCMC - I have to leave. I will update this later.
Vote: EFHW
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that is L-1
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vote: Dylan.
DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?
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You say I've been attempting to scumhunt. That sounds to me like you know I am town.
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vote: DatSwan
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You could be town with a strong instinct that I am also town. Or you are scum.
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I'm fairly sure EFHW is town.
Reading through the end of day 2 I did find a scum!EFHW narrative, but there are a couple of big obstacles to it, that I don't think could be faked.
For anyone on the EFHW wagon, or considering hammering, does it really fit with the end of day 2, or are you just picking out one or two comments that look scummy?
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Awaclus is Awaclus. The case on him needs to show partnering with scum or strongly suspected scum, I think.
That said Awaclus is a busser. Takes one to know one, lol.
So if Awaclus is scum, then he might partner other scum, or he might bus other scum. Or, like, you know, he might not. Well that's helpful.
But, ok, I'll expand the case a bit. I would like to suggest #722 is partnery. This is immediately after Robz votes for hyper, which hyper later identified as a bit of a turning point. So does Awaclus also think something significant has just happened, and he decides to give the WCD wagon some momentum at this point?
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Vote: Datswan
Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.
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Was injured this weekend. Hope to do something today. No one hammer EFHW. If that’s going to happen let me do it.
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Was injured this weekend. Hope to do something today. No one hammer EFHW. If that’s going to happen let me do it.
Hope you are doing well
Also, yes. Hammer should be pps if anyone.
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PPS, I’m sorry to hear that you’re injured. I hope you’re feeling better soon.
Vote count, please Thanks, LL!
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vote: DatSwan
Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?
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vote: DatSwan
Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?
I think he may have scumslipped. This about face is also scummy.
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vote: DatSwan
Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?
I think he may have scumslipped. This about face is also scummy.
Okay and you previously voted Dylan what is your case on him?
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PPS, I’m sorry to hear that you’re injured. I hope you’re feeling better soon.
Vote count, please Thanks, LL!
Mcmc count
EFHW (4): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302, Dylan32, datswan
pingpongsam (1): pingpongsam
infangthief (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): infangthief
Dylan32 (1): westcoastdids
datswan (2): EFHW, 2.71828...
Not voting (0)
With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, 20th of November, at 11am.
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vote: DatSwan
Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?
I think he may have scumslipped. This about face is also scummy.
Okay and you previously voted Dylan what is your case on him?
His convenient jumping on my wagon. And I was sheeping e. And survival. His wagon seemed like the most likely alternative to mine before I saw the possible slip in Datswan's post.
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I am very much on the fence about fang.
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Vote: Datswan
Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.
E can you convince me efhw is town? You seem to strongly read her as town and I strongly read her as scum. Even the most recent back and forth which I am trying to view her as town comes
across as really scummy to me.
I agree with you on Dylan, I read him and other than being extremely unhelpful, he hasn’t done anything scummy. His vote for efhw is not opportunistic at all he has consistently scumread efhw all game and has made a few self corrections that seemed towny.
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vote: Fang
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I reread the end of D2, and it suggests that EFHW and DatSwan are town. Here's where I am giving them town points:
EFHW spent most of day 2 voting for me (along with Fang and Hyper). The hypercube wagon was begun by my sense that something was off because of the way that Hyper accused EFHW of moving around to avoid being on the Robz mislynch wagon when he did some moving around of the same sort. I don't think that Hyper would have used taken one of his scum buddies to task like he did EFHW (posts 496, 498).
Back to the end of D2, after my Hyper vote, Hyper then voted for me, and then Robz voted for Hyper, and then Awaclus voted for me. None of those had any reasons or explanation. Space voted for Hyper a few posts later, but also without much in the way of reasons. So it likely wouldn't have taken much more than a well reasoned argument to move the wagon away from Hyper at that point. When DatSwan joins the wagon, it reaches a critical mass (4) and the tides seem to turn because the folks on the WCD wagon (EFHW, Fang, Awaclus, and Hyper) aren't as towny as the Hyper one (WCD, Robz, Space, DatSwan).
A page or so later, EFHW had intent to hammer on Hyper and then was the most interactive with him about the fake claim. She also proposed an alternative lynch when we weren't sure there was a CC, but I don't see this as scummy because it was never really more than idea and she didn't do much to defend hypercube. So, while she wasn't on the Hyper wagon at the end, I think she would have been of that weird Hyper self-vote, PPS hammer hadn't happened as quickly as it did.
So, why Fang? Well, why not? Fang has closely tracked EFHW this whole game, often aligning his positions with hers. That seems like a good kind of new scum pattern and gives him plenty of cover. D1 and D2 she had him firmly in her town camp, so it seems to have paid off, too. But when I read him more closely, I see him asking lots of questions but not coming up with very good plays as a result.
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Back from VLA and on vacation, so I'll do my best to be more active for a while, with the obvious exception of Thursday (wooo turkey).
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WCD - You said DatSwan was town. What was your thinking there?
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WCD - You said DatSwan was town. What was your thinking there?
It’s mostly what was in my post about the end of D2. He provided the critical mass and recruited folks to vote for hyper. I get that he could have been bussing, but there were other wagons still in play (me and joseph) so he didn’t have to do that.
I’ve also voted for him a couple of times this game, so I’m not rock solid but the Hyper lynch is the closest I have to evidence.
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WCD - You said DatSwan was town. What was your thinking there?
It’s mostly what was in my post about the end of D2. He provided the critical mass and recruited folks to vote for hyper. I get that he could have been bussing, but there were other wagons still in play (me and joseph) so he didn’t have to do that.
I’ve also voted for him a couple of times this game, so I’m not rock solid but the Hyper lynch is the closest I have to evidence.
What about Dylan?
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In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.
I would lynch space and fang!
Followed immediately by:
I also would not lynch Space or fang. I'm interested to hear E's Dylan case.
Since Space is town, coming from Cube makes fang look like a possible partner. Would make sense for Cube to feel the need to post this so quickly if one of his partners was listed.
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I finally reread Dylan, and he does come across as less random read all at once than he feels from his infrequent posting. I thought the initial vote on me was RVS. Was it not?
The EOD hyper wagon argument re: DatSwan is a good one. The same argument holds for WCD and Joseph. PPS is IC. e is semi-IC.
POE leads to Awaclus, fang, mcmc. I've been reading mcmc as town, mostly for tunneling me. Awaclus gives us very little to go on. Considering voting fang. He was so very towny early on, though there were a couple things I didn't mention that gave me pause. They seemed like insignificant details at the time. I'll look it over again.
unvote
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So I just reread pretty much the whole game with a particular eye on mcmc and Awaclus since those were the two people I really hadn't been able to get a read on the entire game. Short version: I read mcmc as pretty solidly town. His interactions with people that he disagreed with definitely seemed to be coming from a place of trying to genuinely scumhunt and figure things out more than scum would normally be able to fake. One interesting note is that in his next to last post D2, he says he doesn't really remember much of hypercube and would have to reread him to have thoughts. So he didn't take a stance one way or the other on the one scum flip we have so far. That's not scummy, just noteworthy.
Awaclus doesn't necessarily match up with my memory from him as scum, but there are a couple people that I have been scum reading that he could potentially be partners with. I would definitely want to see EFHW and/or fang flip before I would vote for him though.
Fang came out of the reread looking scummier and for sure like a more likely partner of hypercube's than EFHW does, because cube repeatedly stated a scum read on EFHW (and voted) while also saying they found fang towny or pro-town, however it was phrased. Could be a bus, but is would new!scum!hypercube be confident enough to bus for 2 whole days? Possibly, but I think it's less likely than the alternative.
I think for now, while my read on EFHW's play hasn't really changed, my preference for who I would rather see flip first has flipped to fang due to the partner implications. Vote: infangthief
ppe 1
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Re: EFHW's question about my initial vote. It was not RVS. It was an early vote without a ton to go on admittedly. It was in response to the "the main problem with the [lynching faust] plan..." post. It just sounded weird and maybe something scum would say, so I used my vote as a tool to see responses and such.
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I finally reread Dylan, and he does come across as less random read all at once than he feels from his infrequent posting. I thought the initial vote on me was RVS. Was it not?
The EOD hyper wagon argument re: DatSwan is a good one. The same argument holds for WCD and Joseph. PPS is IC. e is semi-IC.
POE leads to Awaclus, fang, mcmc. I've been reading mcmc as town, mostly for tunneling me. Awaclus gives us very little to go on. Considering voting fang. He was so very towny early on, though there were a couple things I didn't mention that gave me pause. They seemed like insignificant details at the time. I'll look it over again.
unvote
Dylan’s initial vote was red but was quickly supported by him disagreeing with your early vote on pps for his read on space post.
On one hand I like your continued attempts to reread. On the other hand you moving votes around so much with reasons of “datswan may have scumslipped”, “Dylan conveniently joined my wagon” just to turn around and unvote because Dylan actually isn’t that scummy feels like scum grasping for any alternate wagon instead of town genuinely building an alternate case.
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On the other hand we have fang who has spent most of the day questioning efhw and sitting on a line awaclus wagon.
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I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?
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I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?
It’s just that your sharing as you go along feels more like trying where you can and not pushing what you feel. The unvote feels genuine but the original votes on Dylan and datswan feel like you are happy to get any wagon that isn’t yours going. Then only once I push you to back up those votes you come out with a reread and a statement that Dylan is indeed townie.
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So, why Fang? Well, why not? Fang has closely tracked EFHW this whole game, often aligning his positions with hers. That seems like a good kind of new scum pattern and gives him plenty of cover. D1 and D2 she had him firmly in her town camp, so it seems to have paid off, too. But when I read him more closely, I see him asking lots of questions but not coming up with very good plays as a result.
EFHW and I have been on similar wagons, yes. PPS and Joseph day 1. You day 2.
However I think my questioning and reads have been mostly independent. The fact that we've sometimes come to similar conclusions is part of why I find her towny though, not the other way around.
Also, if you remember day 1 of NM13, my questions there didn't really lead to good plays either (remember chairs?). I'm trying to do better this game, but, well, yes, the people I found scummy day 1 (Space, PPS, Joseph) and day 2 (DatSwan, you) are all either confirmed town, or were on hyper's wagon. So it's looking like I'm not the one to follow.
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And another early night needed. 8pm yesterday, 9pm today. Wiped out. I should be around a bit early tomorrow, then also near the deadline.
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vote: Dylan.
DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?
I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.
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You say I've been attempting to scumhunt. That sounds to me like you know I am town.
this is your post from 5 posts earlier:
I've explained my actions at length by this point, so you should find an answer to your question in my previous posts. To summarize, I have been scumhunting.
Me adding "attempting to", if anything, would suggest the opposite of a slip. Which is a little less relevant than the point of how flaily this is from you.
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vote: DatSwan
Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?
I think he may have scumslipped. This about face is also scummy.
Again... flaily: What about face. I have been doing almost nothing but look into you and surrounding situations for all of Day 3.
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Vote: Datswan
Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.
What am I missing here?
My most recent post (which I think this is regarding), was me comparing reads on the two current wagons (Dylan and EFHW) and then voting for EFHW.
I def could just be being dense... but how does you thinking Dylan is town lead to voting for me here?
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I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?
It’s just that your sharing as you go along feels more like trying where you can and not pushing what you feel. The unvote feels genuine but the original votes on Dylan and datswan feel like you are happy to get any wagon that isn’t yours going. Then only once I push you to back up those votes you come out with a reread and a statement that Dylan is indeed townie.
So I am obviously not advocating my own wagon here... but EFHW "jumping to any wagon that is not their own" is kind of NAI is it not? I mean regardless of town or skum, she would do the same thing at L-1 either way right?
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vote: Dylan.
DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?
I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.
You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?
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vote: Dylan.
DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?
I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.
You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?
I believe the confusion is based on timeline. My leaning town on you (when I was pushing Joseph), was prior to the Hypercube flip. After the Hypercube flip, and a read back, my opinion changed.
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Vote: Datswan
Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.
What am I missing here?
My most recent post (which I think this is regarding), was me comparing reads on the two current wagons (Dylan and EFHW) and then voting for EFHW.
I def could just be being dense... but how does you thinking Dylan is town lead to voting for me here?
I didn't read that as vote followed by reason for choosing you, I read it as vote for you and the reason the vote wasn't for me after his comments earlier, because a change right there would have looked weird without saying why he wasn't voting for me.
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vote: Dylan.
DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?
I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.
You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?
I believe the confusion is based on timeline. My leaning town on you (when I was pushing Joseph), was prior to the Hypercube flip. After the Hypercube flip, and a read back, my opinion changed.
Ok, so what is the narrative as me being Hypercube partner? I put the most pressure re: possible fakeclaim, against objections of PPS, who is now IC.
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I did a quick reread with EFHW in mind. My final verdict there is I do not think she is most definitely scum. I think she certainly could be but there is sufficient evidence that she is not. I want to reread against fang. I would like for them to be partners with EFHW but failing that I think there is potentially scum there. The big issue is I read mostly from a gut/meta place and I have no fang experience to draw upon. Awaclus is most certainly possible scum just as much as being town. His play style is fantastic as scum and basically terrible as town except for the part where scum keep him alive for the WIFOM. It’s a meta I spent a long time developing myself.
McMc is capable of being this towny as scum but he is way more wagon driver than this and everything he has posted has sounded town to me. I’ve decided for my purpose before I die tonight that he is town and won’t consider a lynch there.
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Awaclus is town, I seen it in there. I mean, I guess he totally made sure to very slyly bus the shit out of hypercube even though it wasn’t at all necessary.
For today, no lynch on Awaclus.
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Not even that deep into a reread and the POE is strongly pointing to EFHW fang scum partners. Really look at their behavior towards each other and especially to known townies and hypercube. I think e could maybe be scum but the evidence everyone else has already mentioned seems strongly convincing he is town.
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The more I read and wagon analyse I see a cube fang EFHW team seamlessly. Especially when there were competing wagons between Joseph and Robz.
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Fang has done a lot of agreeing with me. It's gratifying, but not great scum partner play. I was thinking of it more along the lines of either buddying or recognition of my fundamental good sense :). I also appreciated a number of his interventions Day 1. He zeroed in on some important things. I asked if he had played mafia before because I thought it would take a large amount of skill to pull off this towny a game as scum. He says he hasn't. The things I alluded to a few posts ago but didn't specify were basically related to agreeableness. Stating a few times that it's great that people are different, and conceding points quickly when given explanations.
POE is the main reason I am still on the fence about him.
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It would be good scum strategy to ally with a town player. Then if you get caught, you can bring the other person down with you.
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Finished another reread and I was definitely overlooking swan and Dylan. Swan seems to get exonerated on wagon analysis. Dylan is potentially a scumbag, though.
So, would lynch is fang, EFHW, Dylan, in that order.
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Does scum!EFHW stay on the scum!fang bus even as the connections are being made between them? I mean, do you throw the Hail Mary when there’s nothing but a field full of interceptors?
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Went through looking for hypercube references to fang.
At 276 he townreads me, pps and fang.
At 554 he says this:
I'll have to reread fang, some of the things he's said do seem scummy but that's what I thought in NM13 too and he turned out to be town there.
At 577 he says this:
I reread fang, he seems pretty similar to the town!fang I remember from NM13. He is unafraid to state his opinion on everything and his thought processes seem to come from a town perspective. I thought his proposed plan to lynch faust D1 was pro-town, it got some useful discussion going.
So I think I'll go back to vote: EFHW.
683 Says he wouldn't lynch fang.
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I will do a vote: fang
better than lynching EFHW.
Sorry, I have have just not been useful today.
Priority to lynch: Datswan, Fang
Would lynch: WCD, Joseph
Not lynching today: EFHW, mcmc, Awaclus, Dylan
Not lynching: PPS, e
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Forgot to post this: I reread Days 1 and 2 focusing on me, fang and chairs/hypercube. Hyper goes after me pretty consistently, including accusing DatSwan of defending me, so don't agree there. I do see a fang/chairs partner thing just a bit. He asks for a prod on chairs, makes more than one comment about chairs' absence.
I also noticed I've been kind of cranky. Sorry.
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Time for sleeping. I'll be on before deadline, but not up to the exact time. I'll wait for a vote count to place a vote, but at this point I'm thinking fang.
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I think that was L-1...
Vote count 3.Didds
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302, datswan
pingpongsam (1): pingpongsam
infangthief (4): Awaclus, WCD, Dylan, 2.718
Awaclus (1): infangthief
Not voting (1): EFHW
With 10 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Tuesday, 20th of November, at 11am.
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Dylan's vote for me seemed at least partly based on the idea of me being an informative flip.
But of course he won't get that information immediately, not till after tomorrow's lynch, so it made me do some thinking about how far through the game we are.
From this point, we can afford two mislynches and then we're at MYLO. Obviously better not to mislynch, but in worst case scenario, whoever we lynch today will definitely flip in time to inform our decisions at mylo. The same does not hold for tomorrow's lynch (we may get to know that flip before mylo, but only if we lynch scum today or tomorrow).
So if you think my flip will provide useful info, then yes, today is the day to do it. And probably the same goes for EFHW, I think there were comments that her lynch would be informative. In general, it makes sense for our lynch today to be guided a bit by how much info we'll get from the flip.
For me, my scum pool is {Awaclus, DatSwan, Dylan, Mcmc}. And I don't think we get so much info from any of those flips. I mean, maybe avoiding being a high-information flip is part of the strategy of being scum? But anyway, for a start, unvote: Awaclus - not the place to find information.
I'm sad that I've wasted today figuring out my position on EFHW. Well, I don't know, if I'd concluded she was scum that would have been useful I guess. But anyway, somehow I've ended up with a scum pool that I don't have strong feelings about. I think DatSwan's flip would be the most informative, so vote: DatSwan.
But yes, I guess for most of you it is EFHW or me, depending which one you think is scummier and which would be the more informative flip.
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Vote: fang
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Thanks guys.
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Good morning...any Tuesday I don’t have to go into work is sure to be a great day.
So that puts Fang on the guillotine? Sorry, dude, I know it feels crummy to be lynched. :( that is the only part of this game that I don’t think is fun. (And I know I’m one of the people doing it, but the cognitive dissonance is real!)
So, why are you voting for DatSwan? Is his role in the hyper lynch not persuasive to you?
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Been rereading quickly, was away all weekend
Fang is on the guillotine now but unfortunately we don't know alignment.
Interesting that EFHW wagon fell down during the day - not sure if that's a good or bad thing
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Half the reason to lynch fang today is because scum!EFHW would have far too much influence on guillotine. The other half being the likelihood of hitting scum, of course.
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Between robz being ic a pps shooting hyper I actually forgot we were not going to get a flip. Tommorow is going tobe interesting with really no new information. Everyone should try to do some rereads and make notes in their qt’s so we come into the day with something to talk about.
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Thread locked. I am home in Moscow and I will be here from now on. Thousand times sorry for not being present, that is going to change.
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Vote count 3.3
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, Joseph2302,, DatSwan
infangthief (5): Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, 2.71828....., pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): infangthief
Not voting (1): EFHW
With 10 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
infangthief is on the guillotine. Night 3 starts now and ends November 22 at 9:20 am.
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Flavor later
2.71828..... was killed. They was Mafia Goon, a Vanilla Townie
Day 4 starts now!
Vote count 4.0
Not voting (9): pingpongsam, Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
Thread unlocked!
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Happy thanksgiving, friends who are being thankful and lazy today!
E, huh? That's interesting. He was the semi-confirmed town, but more dangerous to keep around than confirmed!town PPS? So, what was he saying that got him axed???
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Flavor later
2.71828..... was killed. They was Mafia Goon, a Vanilla Townie
Day 4 starts now!
Vote count 4.0
Not voting (10): pingpongsam, Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, hypercube
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
Thread unlocked!
LaLight, is that right? Is Hypercube back in the game?
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Happy thanksgiving, friends who are being thankful and lazy today!
E, huh? That's interesting. He was the semi-confirmed town, but more dangerous to keep around than confirmed!town PPS? So, what was he saying that got him axed???
I agree, e and not pps is damn crazy.
My only thought is it could be some elaborate stupid attempt at a double bluff.
Don't kill PPS and then people might think they're not actually the PR.
Either way, seems odd....
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LaLight, is that right? Is Hypercube back in the game?
Well spotted. Seems unlikely.
I think I'm still in the game though. Unlynchable too, which is nice in a way.
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Also, don't worry about lynching me; it means my alignment will get confirmed before Mylo at least, which I hope will be helpful.
Not quite lynched while at the dentist like you were. Lynched 24 hours before the dentist.
Happy Thanksgiving all.
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Happy thanksgiving, friends who are being thankful and lazy today!
E, huh? That's interesting. He was the semi-confirmed town, but more dangerous to keep around than confirmed!town PPS? So, what was he saying that got him axed???
I agree, e and not pps is damn crazy.
My only thought is it could be some elaborate stupid attempt at a double bluff.
Don't kill PPS and then people might think they're not actually the PR.
Either way, seems odd....
Yeh, e is a strange choice. I think e was actually a long way short of IC.
PPS has to have been the vig.
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One big difference between them was PPS wants to lynch me and e did not. Convoluted.
Is this a decision by a solitary scum or a joint decision? I'm thinking solitary.
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Does a scum on guillotine get to talk to their partner(s) overnight?
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PPS did moderate his views by eod.
VCA is exonerating too many people. I think we need to look for bussing.
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Happy Turkey day everyone!
Maybe skum forgot to submit a kill? Set up says they must kill each night so random selection of no kill is submitted.
Gotta be honest, kind of relief for me as during the night i was getting a little paranoid about E!
But more on that later - cooking for like a dozen people today so once I’m sat down I’ll get to some other stuff.
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Flavor later
2.71828..... was killed. They was Mafia Goon, a Vanilla Townie
Day 4 starts now!
Vote count 4.0
Not voting (10): pingpongsam, Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, hypercube
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
Thread unlocked!
LaLight, is that right? Is Hypercube back in the game?
No, sorry
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Does a scum on guillotine get to talk to their partner(s) overnight?
Yes.
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So, actually thinking more on what was my paranoid E! theory... I mean I still really don't get the PPS kill over E!... but when I was thinking it up I was thinking that we had knowledge of Robz being IC when we went to night 1 (not the case it was flipped the next day).
So if the skum RB chose to not shoot it would be with the upside that the town tracker targeted them (1/12 at that point) vs the downside of not targeting the IC, the tracker, or the vig (3/10 at that point)... which just really doesn't make any sense.
Whatever... point is I assume they would of figured that one of us would bring this up eventually. Weird thing is that even then, its like there still could of been that small little paranoia case to make on E!... whereas they have essentially just given us another day with an IC today.
I guess I just don't get it. The only thing I can think of is they were doing it to create WIFOM, so unless someone else has a theory - I am just gonna ignore it for now.
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Kay actually I think I may have it - someone smarter is gonna have to help me, but I think I am on to something.
This is a quote from the link that is supplied in the set up of this game, taken from the Skum Role PM Template:
"You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
This is a quote from the Town Role PM Template:
"You win when two scum are dead and the third is on-guillotine."
So, if we find the second Skum.. we do not have to wait for the flip on the third. The lynch choice will either IC that person, or end the game... no delay in information at that point. This obviously is like the worst case scenario for Skum.
The money day is Day 6:
1) Fang is Town, and we mislynch today and tomorrow = the game ends in Skum victory.
2) Fang is Skum, and we mislynch today and tomorrow = we start Day 6 with an IC on the block. 5 players alive - 1 IC, 3 Town, 1 Skum
3) Fand is Town, and we find Skum today = Same as "2)"
4) Fang is Skum, and we find skum today or tomorrow = Town victory.
and then there is...
5) Fang is Town, and we mislynch today, but find skum tomorrow = This is actually (aside from Skum loss), the worst case scenario. It would put a skum on the block (with 2 skum alive), and we would no without a doubt that the player on the block was skum. At that point it is all gravy for us on Day 6. We could still even mislynch Day 6 and have them kill and still start a Day 7 at 2 Town - 1 Skum (because the player on the block is alive, but also if it is skum on the block, that is 1 IC - 1 Town - 1 Skum).
Skum would of thought this far ahead - I can almost GTD it. So, their thought would be either:
1) Fang is skum, they know they are 1 left after today, and they are gonna have to survive that Day 7 with 1 IC - 1 Town -1 Skum
2) Fang is town, they know they have 2 left after today and their options are to either
- Win outright start of Day 6
- Suffer the lynch today and to to the same Day 6 as in situation 1
- Suffer the lynch tomorrow and be in a really shitty spot. I mean if I was the on the block skum in this scenario on Day 6 I would literally just post something every 24 hours and never vote so town couldn't use the info. It seems beneficial when you think "they have 2 votes as opposed to 1", but if they start throwing that vote around and then are UNWILLING to vote for someone.. that is like.. game over when we are talking about 4 total possible picks.
Whatever, all in all that is a ton of speculation. What it does lead me to is that skum choosing to mess with us by killing E! instead of PPS probably suggests it isn't them trying to mess with us at all. They just feel confident. So, either Fang is skum and they are one left and creating chaos because they know on Day 7 start they will have killed E!, PPS, and anyone else that has managed to IC themselves from future acts. Or Fang is Town, and they feel confident enough to sit back and create a bunch of nonsense without them feeling at risk of being targeted.
I am pulling a page from the WCD book, while adding a bit of my own, and I do understand that this will put me under scrutiny... but the point stands.
If the skum team is Hypercube!Fang... then assuredly to choose E! here, there must be a clever skum in the mix.
If the skum team is Hypercube!NOTFang... then still there must be a clever skum in the mix.
As we do not know Fang's alignment - I think we should focus on the middle ground - Players that seem removed from Fang and Hypercube. I am reading to find that list now, but yeah. Sorry for the long post.
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All I got from the Datswan post is that he looks towny talking circles around himself. I mean, I read it and understood it but damn, that is stream of consciousness right there.
If there is any question I was the vig I want to see the counterclaim right now.
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All I got from the Datswan post is that he looks towny talking circles around himself. I mean, I read it and understood it but damn, that is stream of consciousness right there.
If there is any question I was the vig I want to see the counterclaim right now.
Sorry, i do that quite a bit sometimes. I need to organize thoughts better before posting.
Nutshell - since we get to choose a lynch tomorrow knowing Fang’s alignment i think we should look closely at people disconnected from fang. Looking at potential partners, targets, or genuine reads will be far more beneficial tomorrow - so let’s focus away from fang today to cover more ground.
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Kay actually I think I may have it - someone smarter is gonna have to help me, but I think I am on to something.
This is a quote from the link that is supplied in the set up of this game, taken from the Skum Role PM Template:
"You win when there are as many or more living Mafia as there are living non-Mafia or if nothing can prevent the same. (Someone on guillotine is still alive.)"
This is a quote from the Town Role PM Template:
"You win when two scum are dead and the third is on-guillotine."
So, if we find the second Skum.. we do not have to wait for the flip on the third. The lynch choice will either IC that person, or end the game... no delay in information at that point. This obviously is like the worst case scenario for Skum.
This has already been said at least once before, as I mentioned it as setup talk D1
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Sorry, i do that quite a bit sometimes. I need to organize thoughts better before posting.
Nutshell - since we get to choose a lynch tomorrow knowing Fang’s alignment i think we should look closely at people disconnected from fang. Looking at potential partners, targets, or genuine reads will be far more beneficial tomorrow - so let’s focus away from fang today to cover more ground.
Hey, me too! Although the circles help me see the way through eventually. One thing I decided after reading the long post is that Swan is town. And that killing e was strange because there was some dohbt about him. And PPS is town. And that scum are playing well.
Mcmc, Dylan, and maybe Awa need another good look.
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The WIFOM seems to be killing PPS somewhat confirms his reads. Killing e suggests that maybe PPS is doing a great job for scum so leave him alive and kill the questionable character so that all that really remains are the strong reads. So, either PPS is either so bad wrong about say, EFHW/Dylan that he will just finish the game for say, Joseph/WCD OR he’s spot on but the misdirection is supposed to cause second guessing.
I’m inclined to lean into the middle. Like, EFHW/WCD or something with a strong preference for vetting out an initial read.
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Much as I love using the word WIFOM, I don't like actually thinking through such things. I can't remember what I'm supposed to hold on to and what I'm supposed to reconsider until I basically have to start again from scratch. Or disappear in a puff of logic.
Is there another more straightforward approach, which doesn't depend on WIFOM? Like e had twice started wagons on Dylan, only to later say 'oh now I remember why I think he's town after all'. So maybe Dylan is town and scum just wanted to prevent e from getting a chance to explain why.
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Ok, on rereading the two of them, I think Joseph and chairs/Hypercube were partners who bussed each other a lot. They vote each other a lot. Neither of them seems very inspired, though they do it frequently. Then they are allied against me, DatSwan and Space. Both dither about voting the other one near deadline, but they both do it. Sorry about the wall of words. vote: Joseph
130 Jos V. chairs “Seems like you're setting faust up to get guillotined D2”
230 Jos: “Not super convinced that chairs is scum. But it is the best option I can see right now”
235 Jos: "It's an option. Currently the most preferred option"
275 hyper: v. Joseph “for mostly just doing setup talk and avoiding other interaction.”
334 hyper: “The case against chairs doesn't really make sense: if he was scum why would he bother trying to get faust mislynched? There aren't any protective roles so if faust is town scum can just nightkill him. I assume chairs was just being paranoid about the possibility of scum!faust.”
343 Jospeh: quotes above, v. Hyper
350 Jos: “And I forgot that hypercube = chairs, definitely happy with my vote there then”
381 hyper: "I think I like the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon”
382 hyper: "Forgot to v. Joseph"
406 Jos: v. Robz Currently the 3 biggest wagons are me, Robz and EFHW. I'm scum (as in on team Green, because scum in this game = town in other games), and of the other two, I think EFHW is more towny
407 hyper: I'm just checking in; I'm happy with where my vote is right now [on Joseph]. I'll be around for an hour or so before the deadline.
450 hyper: I'm here. ... I'm going to do a quick reread of Space.
462 hyper: Space seems a little erratic to me, moving votes and their opinion around a lot. ... I think I like voting for them more than voting for Robz, but less than voting for Joseph.
465 hyper: “Ok let's see if we can get more of a consensus on Space v.Space”
485 hyper: “I'm obviously willing to go back to Joseph but it doesn't seem like anything is changing unless multiple people leave the Robz wagon.”
490 hyper: on prodding from faust: “True. v. Joseph”
DAY 2
497 hyper: “ Robz being IC makes it pretty obvious how bad that wagon was. EFHW had some crucial votes to keep it going: vote: EFHW”
502 Jos: “at least one scum in {e, PPS, Joseph, WCD, Space, ingathief}
520 hyper: “At this point I think Space is town. I somewhat regret moving my vote to them yesterday, I think staying on Joseph and trying to convince people to move there could have been better.”
521 Jos: “Hypercube and Space scum team perhaps?”
522 Jos:” v. Space Seems good to me for now”
554 hyper: “Specifically the idea that there's no way of knowing whether Joseph is town or not. The obvious way to find out is to lynch Joseph, which at this point seems like it could give us a good deal of information. That, combined with this: Quote from: Joseph2302 'I can claim now, if people would like?' leads me to v. Joseph."
572 hyper: “Is all this certainty that Joseph is town based on his meta or something? I don't really get it.
577 hyper: “he's too scummy to be scum? I don't really like this but I'm willing to defer to the IC for now. ... I think I'll go back to v. EFHW.”
611 Jos: Of the 4 mentioned by DatSwan {me, Robz, Space, EFHW}, my thoughts are this:... EFHW- the wagon on EFHW dissipated quickly, and that could be a scummy sign. ... Space- still think scummy
612 Jos: “Actually since I don't see how the 3 D1 wagons of me, Robz & EFHW can be 3 town wagons, I'm better off with v. EFHW Having 3 wagons on D1 and them all being town people is unlikely”
613 hyper: re: DatSwan post “This is an interestingly subtle defense of EFHW: you assign her a much more towny motivation for moving her vote than the actual reason she gave”
615 jos: “I agree DatSwan's defences could be indicative of a DatSwan/EFHW scum team”
657 hyper: v. DatSwan
663 hyper: makes case on datswan relative to EFHW
668 hyper: “I'm still willing to vote for EFHW. I'll be generally around this weekend and should be available for the deadline.”
721 hyper: “That's a really lazy attempt to build a case from someone who keeps imploring people to try harder. WCD even has to contort herself into discounting her expressed scumread of EFHW to make it work. v. WCD”
740 Jos: “I'll be on and off around until deadline. Of the choices WCD or hypercube, my preferred option is someone else.”
741 Jos: “I guess v. WCD is the better of the two options”
745 Jos: “Actually, let's sheep the IC. v. hypercube”
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efoo has a pretty good point. Reading them separately and with context makes Joseph loom pretty towny. It that, there is a lot of interaction between those two. Interaction that involves voting. That said, Joseph has been a polarizing player this whole game. Nobody has much been on the fence about him. Hypercube on the other hand was relatively null up until his end. Does Joseph lead I to the bus like that, as opposed to being closer to the tail end?
Quite possibly.
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Autocorrect massacred that paragraph.
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Just checking in before I go to bed. Had more stuff going on today post-Thanksgiving than I would have expected, so hopefully I'll have time to catch up tomorrow evening.
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Good morning, friends. As is perhaps to be expected mandatory Festiveness and Fun is sucking up way more time than I had anticipated, but that should be coming to an end (rather abruptly since that is when the big ass pile of grading will start demanding attention) and I can catch up tomorrow.
In the cheesy but genuine spirit of the holiday, I am thankful for all of you for making this game, and the others like it, an enjoyable endeavor. I’ve enjoyed the past few months of this community quite a bit, albeit a “this is frustrating but I’m also learning how to think in a new way” kind of enjoyment.
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efoo has a pretty good point. Reading them separately and with context makes Joseph loom pretty towny. It that, there is a lot of interaction between those two. Interaction that involves voting. That said, Joseph has been a polarizing player this whole game. Nobody has much been on the fence about him. Hypercube on the other hand was relatively null up until his end. Does Joseph lead I to the bus like that, as opposed to being closer to the tail end?
Quite possibly.
Joseph is always a polarising player. Usually everyone just thinks I'm scum.
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As for WCD/hypercube at the end of the day, I didn't think either of them were good lynch options
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I’ll be back soon at a housewarming party for the night. Might drunk post later I’ll find out in the morning.
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efoo has a pretty good point. Reading them separately and with context makes Joseph loom pretty towny. It that, there is a lot of interaction between those two. Interaction that involves voting. That said, Joseph has been a polarizing player this whole game. Nobody has much been on the fence about him. Hypercube on the other hand was relatively null up until his end. Does Joseph lead I to the bus like that, as opposed to being closer to the tail end?
Quite possibly.
Joseph is always a polarising player. Usually everyone just thinks I'm scum.
its weird when you third-person to first-person yourself in the same post
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Ok, on rereading the two of them, I think Joseph and chairs/Hypercube were partners who bussed each other a lot. They vote each other a lot. Neither of them seems very inspired, though they do it frequently. Then they are allied against me, DatSwan and Space. Both dither about voting the other one near deadline, but they both do it. Sorry about the wall of words. vote: Joseph
Snipped for convenience.
Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions:
Day 1:
1) Everything from #130-#343 I am kind of in disagreement with I guess. All these post quotes are pointing out A LOT of interaction between Joseph and Chairs/Hyper, with the votes to follow them up. That is pretty damn hard bussing on Day 1 in this delayed flip set up. Like to the extent that I do not know if it is probable, or even remotely likely, especially with Hypercube being a newer player.
2) However, #350 (after Joseph votes Hypercube, they claim to of forgotten that Chairs = Hypercube)... that could be either way. I feel the need to read it as towny, but I mean from a skum!Joseph PoV... this would be a great way to gain easy town points. Still, I am on the fence about it.
3) #382 is where Hypercube leaves WCD (4) to put Joseph at (2), while Robz is at (2), and EFHW is at (3). That just again... seems wayyyy overly bussy (especially on day 1). Also, when they move their vote they make it read the below... which is just sooooo strange again as Skum!Hypercube could of gone either EFHW or Robz at this point. I get we are looking into bussing, but this is getting a little absurd at this point... like this is not just "nonchalant" bussing... this is "I am willing to legit have my partner lynched day 1" bussing... when there was at least one KNOWN other town option.
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
4) #465 is Hyper moving off of Joseph and trying to rally a Space lynch. The vote count at the time read:
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
--- So on one hand, why would Hypercube either not vote Robz (credit I guess), or at the least... not do anything? I will give you this stand alone point is weird as hell. As town here, why would you try to create a random 3rd wagon so close to DL. As skum, if Joseph is also skum, it protects against a move (keeping in mind that 3/5 on Robz were town, 1/5 is unknown to us, and the other 1/5 was Joseph... so if it was in fact 4/5 town on Joseph I guess this could be skum trying to prevent a tie from happening). If that is the case.... I strongly suspect Fang or EFHW are skum... but then we are back to over-bussing where all of the skum team was voting for their mate at one point on day 1, which is... unlikely.
5) #485 - If the move off Joseph to Space was in fact Skum!Hyper playing D... why in the world would you say this?
6) #490 - When Hyper moves back to Joseph at this point there is 90 seconds left to DL reading Robz(6) vs Joseph(2). This would be the only acceptable example of bussing thus far that I actually like can bring myself to believe.
That ends Day 1. At this point I am not feeling the Joseph!Hyper team.
Day 2:
1) #554/#577 - This is Hyper voting for Joseph and then moving to EFHW.
2) #612/#657 - This is Joseph voting for EFHW and then Hyper moving to Swan. My take away from points 1 and 2 here, while not the point of this response, would be more of "the team would seem to be Hyper!EFHW rather than Hyper!Joseph (speaking from my PoV).
3) #740/#745 - The first gives Joseph an out to vote anyone, or EFHW, or Hyper... and the second is essentially sealing Hypercube's fate. Considering they could of voted for WCD tying the wagons at 5-5 instead of voting for Joseph and making them 6-4.
That is the end of Day 2.
All in all - I think that EFHW put together a solid interactions post, but I just do not agree with it. I am not saying it is not plausable, and this is prior to me finishing my full Joseph read... but for this to make sense they would of had to have the mind set of actually risking the lynch of a skum player based on the other skum player's push... all the way back from Day 1. I just don't find that super likely.
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Ok, on rereading the two of them, I think Joseph and chairs/Hypercube were partners who bussed each other a lot. They vote each other a lot. Neither of them seems very inspired, though they do it frequently. Then they are allied against me, DatSwan and Space. Both dither about voting the other one near deadline, but they both do it. Sorry about the wall of words. vote: Joseph
Snipped for convenience.
Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions:
Day 1:
1) Everything from #130-#343 I am kind of in disagreement with I guess. All these post quotes are pointing out A LOT of interaction between Joseph and Chairs/Hyper, with the votes to follow them up. That is pretty damn hard bussing on Day 1 in this delayed flip set up. Like to the extent that I do not know if it is probable, or even remotely likely, especially with Hypercube being a newer player.
2) However, #350 (after Joseph votes Hypercube, they claim to of forgotten that Chairs = Hypercube)... that could be either way. I feel the need to read it as towny, but I mean from a skum!Joseph PoV... this would be a great way to gain easy town points. Still, I am on the fence about it.
3) #382 is where Hypercube leaves WCD (4) to put Joseph at (2), while Robz is at (2), and EFHW is at (3). That just again... seems wayyyy overly bussy (especially on day 1). Also, when they move their vote they make it read the below... which is just sooooo strange again as Skum!Hypercube could of gone either EFHW or Robz at this point. I get we are looking into bussing, but this is getting a little absurd at this point... like this is not just "nonchalant" bussing... this is "I am willing to legit have my partner lynched day 1" bussing... when there was at least one KNOWN other town option.
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
4) #465 is Hyper moving off of Joseph and trying to rally a Space lynch. The vote count at the time read:
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
--- So on one hand, why would Hypercube either not vote Robz (credit I guess), or at the least... not do anything? I will give you this stand alone point is weird as hell. As town here, why would you try to create a random 3rd wagon so close to DL. As skum, if Joseph is also skum, it protects against a move (keeping in mind that 3/5 on Robz were town, 1/5 is unknown to us, and the other 1/5 was Joseph... so if it was in fact 4/5 town on Joseph I guess this could be skum trying to prevent a tie from happening). If that is the case.... I strongly suspect Fang or EFHW are skum... but then we are back to over-bussing where all of the skum team was voting for their mate at one point on day 1, which is... unlikely.
5) #485 - If the move off Joseph to Space was in fact Skum!Hyper playing D... why in the world would you say this?
6) #490 - When Hyper moves back to Joseph at this point there is 90 seconds left to DL reading Robz(6) vs Joseph(2). This would be the only acceptable example of bussing thus far that I actually like can bring myself to believe.
That ends Day 1. At this point I am not feeling the Joseph!Hyper team.
Day 2:
1) #554/#577 - This is Hyper voting for Joseph and then moving to EFHW.
2) #612/#657 - This is Joseph voting for EFHW and then Hyper moving to Swan. My take away from points 1 and 2 here, while not the point of this response, would be more of "the team would seem to be Hyper!EFHW rather than Hyper!Joseph (speaking from my PoV).
3) #740/#745 - The first gives Joseph an out to vote anyone, or EFHW, or Hyper... and the second is essentially sealing Hypercube's fate. Considering they could of voted for WCD tying the wagons at 5-5 instead of voting for Joseph and making them 6-4.
That is the end of Day 2.
All in all - I think that EFHW put together a solid interactions post, but I just do not agree with it. I am not saying it is not plausable, and this is prior to me finishing my full Joseph read... but for this to make sense they would of had to have the mind set of actually risking the lynch of a skum player based on the other skum player's push... all the way back from Day 1. I just don't find that super likely.
Totally agree. This is the type of effort scum needs to make in order to swing a mislynch especially after making the WIFOM trade of the year last night.
Vote: EFHW
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Help me out, people operating on more sleep than I...
Is this scummy?
One big difference between them was PPS wants to lynch me and e did not. Convoluted.
Is this a decision by a solitary scum or a joint decision? I'm thinking solitary.
And then
Does a scum on guillotine get to talk to their partner(s) overnight?
I don’t see any reason to think the scum on guillotine wouldn’t be able to chat with their buddy, and this question seems to be suggesting a confusion I can’t imagine EFHW having. And crediting the choice of e over PPS to the suspicion of her. Hmm.
I appreciate the long interaction post, but again, I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around Joseph setting up and voting for Hyper regularly is they are partners when there were so many other viable choices.
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You all could be right about the bussing. These were my thoughts.
Pro:
1. They are both inexperienced scum. Therefore they would expect to get lynched and one way to make the most out of that is to heavily bus.
2. We have too many innocent players without bussing.
3. I found it odd that they voted each other a lot, suggesting scumreads, and then really coordinated re: me and DatSwan.
4. Neither seemed to have strong feelings about the other one. No reactions to being voted and little or no resistance to voting elsewhere.
5. Both vacillated at voting the other near deadline, which would be hard to do, but both did it. Joseph could have avoided helping lynch Hyper, but he gets a lot of mileage from that vote, and hyper would likely have been lynched anyway. PPS and I were both potential voters.
Con:
1. This does require hyper to take over the same strategy chairs was pursuing. Not unlikely. Chairs was not inexperienced scum, but he does get lynched or almost lynched a lot. I don't know if he'd go in for an all out bussing strategy like this. I do think Joseph would. I don't know enough to say if hyper would.
2. The votes on Space were not coordinated. One had backed off them before the other voted.
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As for WCD/hypercube at the end of the day, I didn't think either of them were good lynch options
Why did you pick this point to comment on?
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A lot of the objections I'm hearing are exactly why this could be a good strategy. I'm fine with us scutinizing it thoroughly though, since if I'm wrong you'll lynch me next.
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I'd like to hear fang's thoughts about my theory.
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Ok, on rereading the two of them, I think Joseph and chairs/Hypercube were partners who bussed each other a lot. They vote each other a lot. Neither of them seems very inspired, though they do it frequently. Then they are allied against me, DatSwan and Space. Both dither about voting the other one near deadline, but they both do it. Sorry about the wall of words. vote: Joseph
Snipped for convenience.
Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions:
Day 1:
1) Everything from #130-#343 I am kind of in disagreement with I guess. All these post quotes are pointing out A LOT of interaction between Joseph and Chairs/Hyper, with the votes to follow them up. That is pretty damn hard bussing on Day 1 in this delayed flip set up. Like to the extent that I do not know if it is probable, or even remotely likely, especially with Hypercube being a newer player.
2) However, #350 (after Joseph votes Hypercube, they claim to of forgotten that Chairs = Hypercube)... that could be either way. I feel the need to read it as towny, but I mean from a skum!Joseph PoV... this would be a great way to gain easy town points. Still, I am on the fence about it.
3) #382 is where Hypercube leaves WCD (4) to put Joseph at (2), while Robz is at (2), and EFHW is at (3). That just again... seems wayyyy overly bussy (especially on day 1). Also, when they move their vote they make it read the below... which is just sooooo strange again as Skum!Hypercube could of gone either EFHW or Robz at this point. I get we are looking into bussing, but this is getting a little absurd at this point... like this is not just "nonchalant" bussing... this is "I am willing to legit have my partner lynched day 1" bussing... when there was at least one KNOWN other town option.
Joseph2302 (4): SpaceAnemone, infangthief, faust, hypercube
EFHW (3): Dylan32, mcmcsalot, WestCoastDidds
hypercube (1): Joseph2302
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, EFHW
mcmcsalot (1): Awaclus
4) #465 is Hyper moving off of Joseph and trying to rally a Space lynch. The vote count at the time read:
Joseph2302 (3): infangthief, hypercube, EFHW
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., pingpongsam, Joseph2302, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
--- So on one hand, why would Hypercube either not vote Robz (credit I guess), or at the least... not do anything? I will give you this stand alone point is weird as hell. As town here, why would you try to create a random 3rd wagon so close to DL. As skum, if Joseph is also skum, it protects against a move (keeping in mind that 3/5 on Robz were town, 1/5 is unknown to us, and the other 1/5 was Joseph... so if it was in fact 4/5 town on Joseph I guess this could be skum trying to prevent a tie from happening). If that is the case.... I strongly suspect Fang or EFHW are skum... but then we are back to over-bussing where all of the skum team was voting for their mate at one point on day 1, which is... unlikely.
5) #485 - If the move off Joseph to Space was in fact Skum!Hyper playing D... why in the world would you say this?
6) #490 - When Hyper moves back to Joseph at this point there is 90 seconds left to DL reading Robz(6) vs Joseph(2). This would be the only acceptable example of bussing thus far that I actually like can bring myself to believe.
That ends Day 1. At this point I am not feeling the Joseph!Hyper team.
Day 2:
1) #554/#577 - This is Hyper voting for Joseph and then moving to EFHW.
2) #612/#657 - This is Joseph voting for EFHW and then Hyper moving to Swan. My take away from points 1 and 2 here, while not the point of this response, would be more of "the team would seem to be Hyper!EFHW rather than Hyper!Joseph (speaking from my PoV).
3) #740/#745 - The first gives Joseph an out to vote anyone, or EFHW, or Hyper... and the second is essentially sealing Hypercube's fate. Considering they could of voted for WCD tying the wagons at 5-5 instead of voting for Joseph and making them 6-4.
That is the end of Day 2.
All in all - I think that EFHW put together a solid interactions post, but I just do not agree with it. I am not saying it is not plausable, and this is prior to me finishing my full Joseph read... but for this to make sense they would of had to have the mind set of actually risking the lynch of a skum player based on the other skum player's push... all the way back from Day 1. I just don't find that super likely.
Totally agree. This is the type of effort scum needs to make in order to swing a mislynch especially after making the WIFOM trade of the year last night.
Vote: EFHW
I'm obviously good with this.
Vote: EFHW
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crap sorry I did not mean to quote the whole damn post.
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@ PPS - early in the day so feel free to tell me to shove it... but if fang were to flip skum right now, would it change your opinion on EFHW at all?
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It has been 7 IRL days since Awaclus has posted.
Request Prod on Awaclus
Are prods not issued unless requested?
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It has been 7 IRL days since Awaclus has posted.
Request Prod on Awaclus
Are prods not issued unless requested?
I'm following though.
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Also I couldn't post in the night anyway.
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@ PPS - early in the day so feel free to tell me to shove it... but if fang were to flip skum right now, would it change your opinion on EFHW at all?
No, it would confirm it. Fang flipping town, otoh....
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You all could be right about the bussing. These were my thoughts.
Pro:
1. They are both inexperienced scum. Therefore they would expect to get lynched and one way to make the most out of that is to heavily bus.
2. We have too many innocent players without bussing.
3. I found it odd that they voted each other a lot, suggesting scumreads, and then really coordinated re: me and DatSwan.
4. Neither seemed to have strong feelings about the other one. No reactions to being voted and little or no resistance to voting elsewhere.
5. Both vacillated at voting the other near deadline, which would be hard to do, but both did it. Joseph could have avoided helping lynch Hyper, but he gets a lot of mileage from that vote, and hyper would likely have been lynched anyway. PPS and I were both potential voters.
Con:
1. This does require hyper to take over the same strategy chairs was pursuing. Not unlikely. Chairs was not inexperienced scum, but he does get lynched or almost lynched a lot. I don't know if he'd go in for an all out bussing strategy like this. I do think Joseph would. I don't know enough to say if hyper would.
2. The votes on Space were not coordinated. One had backed off them before the other voted.
In answer to this:
1. Not inexperienced scum, been scum maybe 10 times
3. that's because I think you're scummy, that's why I've been voting for you
4. True, but I don't have a strong opinion on everyone
5. Not a bussing. I was away and so sheeping the IC seemed fine to me. And it was the better option I think
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I'd like to hear fang's thoughts about my theory.
I disagree with it.
Early day 3, I did my own readthrough of interactions between Joseph and chairs/hypercube - see #885.
From #885, this was the bit that convinced me they couldn't be partners:
4. End of day 1, hypercube likes the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon (#380), joins as 4th on the wagon (making it the leading wagon) and is still happy with his vote on Joseph when the wagons are Joseph 5, EFHW 3, Robz 3. (#406). This is 6 hours before deadline.
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1. Not inexperienced scum, been scum maybe 10 times
Do you keep your signature updated?
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1. Not inexperienced scum, been scum maybe 10 times
Do you keep your signature updated?
No
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Also looking at their interactions, I don't think WCD and EFHW are on the same team.
Which makes me feel more towny about WCD
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My next several posts will be stream of consciousness as I reread certain people.
I'll start with e to get his reads. I think it's a coin-toss whether scum killed him intentionally--either because of his reads or WIFOM from them--or they forgot to submit one with the holiday (would imply scum is likely someone in a country that actually celebrates Thanksgiving) and e was the unfortunate random nk.
#185: Town: faust, Awaclus, mcmc, fang. Scum: Joseph, pps.
#308: Hated the WCD wagon.
D2
#418: Awaclus reasonable and protown, don't like votes on him
#423: would have voted Space except for vote count concerns; later does vote.
#567: Voted me
#586: Town Joseph
#690: His big case where he changes course and decides I'm town.
#698: Decides EFHW is town.
#714: votes pps
D3
#939: votes me
#946: boosts EFHW townread, thinks I'm so scummy
#960: votes DatSwan as he remembered why he thought I was town.
#1005: scum: Swan, Fang. would lynch: wcd, Joseph. Not lynching yet: EFHW, mcmc, Awaclus, me. IC: pps and himself.
Wow. I didn't realize the extent to which e and I disagreed on reads. The only people (other than IC!pps) that we agreed on were mcmc and awaclus on the town side and fang on the scum side. It seems like e wasn't really pushing very many people as firm scum reads, rather using POE from his several townreads. So if scum chose to kill him about reads, Swan would be the one who would relieve the most direct pressure, but from my perspective EFHW, mcmc, and Awaclus could benefit most from trying to make it look like e's reads were good.
DatSwan next
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I will be including comments on interactions between fang and each person that might indicate a partner for if fang flips scum. As I think he will, I would prefer to lynch in that pool of people today, if anyone stands out.
Datswan
#196: possible partner-like townread of fang, gives scum points to scum!chairs.
#552: vote: fang
Builds up to a joseph vote
#738: votes hypercube and tries to get someone else to switch to him.
Ok, at #742 by hypercube, I'm pretty sure Swan and hypercube aren't partners. Cube could have shaken it off or Swan could have gone somewhere else with his vote.
Read the rest of it, and nothing was there to shake my confidence. DatSwan is town.
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I'd like to hear fang's thoughts about my theory.
I disagree with it.
Early day 3, I did my own readthrough of interactions between Joseph and chairs/hypercube - see #885.
From #885, this was the bit that convinced me they couldn't be partners:
4. End of day 1, hypercube likes the Joseph wagon more than the Robz wagon (#380), joins as 4th on the wagon (making it the leading wagon) and is still happy with his vote on Joseph when the wagons are Joseph 5, EFHW 3, Robz 3. (#406). This is 6 hours before deadline.
I get it. You all feel the bussing strategy would have been too radical and risky and that they would never have tried it. I also recognize that seeing it requires quite a bit of inference that may well be misplaced. The lack of information means this boils down to opinion, not proof.
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If I am scum, how do you (town players) account for hyper's pushing my lynch? Do you think he was bussing there?
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Sorry, fell asleep earlier and got busy. Next person I'm reading is EFHW since they seem to be the pivotal person one way or another today. My thoughts going in aren't exactly a secret, but I am gonna do my best to look beyond the confirmation bias. I'll try to make this more comprehensive than my Swan post. Analysis in italics. Here goes...
39: asks pps what the interesting setup wrinkles are. Could suggest less setup thought than what scum would probably have done and discussed N0?
51: ah, clarifies that the question was "about your comment on your playstyle, not the setup."
97: main problem with lynch faust plan post. This is the initial post I scumread EFHW for. The main problem with the plan is that the most likely outcome barring some actual reason to think faust was scum is that it just makes scum's job easier for them. D1 scumhunting tends to be a crapshoot anyway, and while you obviously hope to find and hit scum D1, it's more crucial to generate info that can help hunt down all the scum the next days. To that end, there's basically no reason to ever lynch faust D1 unless he is legitimately scummy because even though scum could play the WIFOM game, they usually don't. But even when they do let town!him live, we get info from it that would be lost if we just preemptively lynched him, such as the scum team is willing to risk playing with a live faust, suggesting either scum that don't know faust or ones that are quite experienced.
98: RVS?vote: Robz
Joseph starts a wagon on chairs for his comments on the faust speculation for sounding like he was already planning to set up his mislynch later, Awaclus and pps join without additional comment. #146: "Did I miss something about chairs?" Partner points
Next is a conversation with/about her vote for PPS due to his "lazy read." The whole interaction seem NAI, as it's pretty normal questioning/explaining original meaning that would be standard play for both alignments. EFHW comes out of the exchange not looking any scummier.
#154: goes along with WCD wagon, votes.
#357: Votes robz, willing to go back to WCD.
#404: parks vote on Joseph. Probably self-preservation. Prior to her vote, the leading wagons were Joseph (4), EFHW(3), Robz (2), 6 hours before the deadline.
#414: goes back to Robz, Joseph vote "more annoyance than scumread" Wagons now Joseph (4), EFHW (3), Robz (4)
#437: flips to Joseph, regrets leaving WCD wagon. bails from leading wagon to Joseph
D1
#495: Doubles down on wcd scumread and votes as such.
#497: defends against hypercube wagon and VCA driven vote.
#527: questions my vote on fang. more partner points if fang flips scum
580: big reread of and change from scumread to "withholding judgement" on WCD.
607: finds infangthief towny, doesn't want to lynch him because he's "an asset in the game" Not a scummy post in isolation, but there are yet more partner points towards fang pending flip
618: Self-defense, ended with "I'll reread hypercube next."
619: More self-defense
620: naked wcd vote. WCD voted for EFHW 5 posts earlier, so either EFHW softened on that better feeling she had been feeling about WCD or this is a little omgus
697: Pretty set on lynching WCD; Space, fang, DatSwan untouchable for today, open to be persuaded on anyone else. Needless to say, more fang partner points possibly coming
749: intent to hammer hypercube Town points, but could also be used for town points without actually intending to hammer hoping someone else does or the wagon moves somewhere else. EFHW is good enough to pull that.
753: RE: cube's fakeclaim - "This coyld [sic] so easily be a fakeclaim." Again, either towny, or scum taking advantage of knowing that it is a fakeclaim for easy cred later since at some point later on when the lie is inevitably discovered.
Discusses implication of potential fakeclaim with pps for several posts.
Moves to me because is ok letting hypercube live for now. This is before the counterclaim.
There's a long-ish conversation between pps and EFHW about the fakeclaim and counterclaim, EFHW seems to get frustrated a bit about it (specifically the ppe in #836). Earlier, I was mildly scumreading EFHW for this section, but now I can't really see anything that I could put my finger on, other than the fact I generally agree with what PPS was saying, and so it feels like EFHW is opposite aligned from me for that.
There's a couple posts about how scum!EFHW would have stayed on the WCD wagon.
#871: agrees that fang's post (and at a couple other times in the game) has a buddying feel to it; throws some very mild shade at fang for being quiet since the marathon not a sprint comment. This would seem to be the only way for EFHW to respond as either alignment when someone else is called out for buddying her. If it was a one way buddy street, this would be fine, but there are a ton of potential buddy points going from EFHW to fang as well, so the defense kind of falls flat in my eyes.
Some NAI posts and questions asked.
#879: sets lynchpool curiously at "Dylan, Awaclus, Fang" This pool is set in spite of 1) continuously being suspicious of Joseph (although she did quote a post in which one of her questions to Joseph had been answered earlier and said "I guess this explains it", but it seems like there was more of a scumread than that one question, so maybe this one is understandable on 2nd thought) 2) townreading fang up until the buddy post with no other scumread stated between then and here 3) Literally no mention of Awaclus prior to this. I'm literally the only person in this lynchpool that makes sense to be in EFHW's pool based on her previous posts, and you can make the case that several other people should have been included if these were genuine opinions instead of a manufactured list.
#906: Asks 3 questions about my lynchpool post in 905. 1) was based on misreading it. 2) Why is fang on would lynch list? 3) Why was she on my "really want to lynch" list? 1 is a non-issue, 3 is totally normal, but questioning my scumread on fang again without mentioning anyone else is partnery again. Went on to question how I went from my string of posts where I went from scumreading DatSwan and questioning Joseph to realizing they were both town to the lists that I did. That particular criticism is NAI.
There's a ton of self-defense in the next several posts.
#958: fang, "I'm fairly sure EFHW is town." Acknowledges a scum!EFHW narrative, but doesn't think a couple things could have been faked. Asks a question in defense of EFHW. I can't wait for fang to flip, cuz I'm starting to realize my EFHW read started off as more of a gut than actual evidence, but if fang flips scum, EFHW should immediately be the next lynch at this point.
#969: "I am very much on the fence about fang." No comment
#978: Decides I'm not as random and scummy read all at once as my infrequency would make you feel. POE leads her to Awaclus, fang, and mcmc, had been townreading mcmc. Fang was "so very towny early on, though there were a couple things I didn't mention that gave me pause. They seemed like insignificant details at the time. I'll look it over again." unvotes Fang was starting to feel some pressure, so this would have been a good time to try and find some distance. Admittedly could also be a townsperson changing their read...
#1000: Recognizes fang agreeing with her a lot, lists reasons for townread and they things that he alluded to that gave him pause. Says POE main reason she's still on the fence.
#1004: Read hypercube, points out 4 posts. 276: cube townread EFHW, pps, and fang. New scum including both partners in townread list?! 554: Cube said fang seemed kind of scummy but was the same way as town in NM13. 577: where cube votes EFHW and townreads fang. 683: Cube says he wouldn't lynch fang. So there's evidence of partner townreading and some possible bussing. I would need to check the context of 577.
#1006: Says cube went after her consistently, but could see a fang/hypercube partner thing.
#1007: Last post of D3, says will be on before deadline and will pick a place to vote then waiting for a vote count, but is leaning towards fang. That vote never came as pps hammered fairly early in the morning.
Most of D4 has been EFHW pushing a scum!busing!Joseph narrative that it seems most people don't buy and trying to ask questions of people who are pushing her lynch to try to defend herself.
Man, after all of that (been sitting here for at least an hour at this point...), I'm actually a little surprised by how few specific posts I actually thought were scummy, but also surprised at just how much EFHW and fang look like partners. If fang flips scum, nothing short of someone pulling a hypercube and claiming scum will convince me to move my vote off of EFHW. However, if Fang flips town, it would seem that I would have to put EFHW more towards a null read than a true scum read.... At this point, I'm not sure, but lynching someone else today that might be a hypercube partner but not a fang partner would be a better strategy than lynching EFHW today, unless other people did actually see specific scummy things that I missed other than the partner stuff.
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that little D1 header in there obviously should have been D2, and by the time I got to D3 I forgot that is how I planned on dividing up the days...
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Vote count 4.1
EFHW (2): pingpongsam, DatSwan
Not voting (7): Dylan32, Joseph2302, infangthief, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
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Also looking at their interactions, I don't think WCD and EFHW are on the same team.
Which makes me feel more towny about WCD
Do you mean you think they're not both on the scum team?
If they were both on the town team, they wouldn't really know if they were on the same team or not, so how can you tell if they're on the same team or not?
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vote: Awaclus
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Howdy, friends. Getting caught up....
Thanks to the folks who are doing good rereads. The comments and history are really insightful. It’s sheer time span of the game is something I’m still sussing out.
Dylan’s EFHW post resonates with my sense. I spent most of D1 and about half of D2 finding her scummy, but when I tried to read her as town Hyper emerged as the least helpful/most scummy. Since he flipped scum, I’ve kept her in my town list but I’m easily persuaded by the discussion about her because of those initial impressions. I’m trying to work against that feeling until we know Fang’s alignment. There is plenty of partnery stuff there with Fang, but there wasn’t any of that with Hyper. Fang and Hyper are both newbs so I’m not sure why one would partner and the other would not if they are a team together. I can also see Fang following EFHW because she made herself a vocal presence in the game early on and that’s how Fang seems to like to play. Plus it’s generally easier to agree with someone than disagree with them.
I feel like if Fang flips town and EFHW is on the guillotine, we’ll be annoyed we put all our eggs in that basket. If he flips scum, different story. So, I’m toying with the idea of putting someone on the guillotine that would help us narrow options or who isn’t terribly helpful one way or another. Awaclus, for example, wouldn’t change anything but our numbers since he doesn’t contribute and then we’d know Fang’s alignment.
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WiFi broke at work so unfortunately I’ll be mia for at least a until this evening. Yesterday was 100% recovering from the housewarming party.
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Thanks for the voices of reason from Dylan and WCD. I am also very curious to learn fang's alignment.
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To pick up my thoughts where I left up last night regarding looking somewhere other than EFHW, POE doesn't leave a ton of good alternatives though... I'm still gonna reread everyone (maybe without a big post for each one, I don't have that kind of time this week to type it all up), but as of right now, I'm reading DatSwan, Joseph, and WCD as solidly town (and IC!PPS), Awaclus doesn't at all resemble scum!Awaclus from what I remember of him, and mcmc has seemed fairly towny... Which from a neutral perspective would only leave EFHW and me, and I know I'm town.
Lynching Awaclus would be a sort of shot in the dark that I guess has a chance to hit scum that buys time to get info from Fang's flip.
The only way Joseph makes sense is if EFHW's hard busing theory is right.
Assuming PPS is eventually nk'd, as of right now I'd take DatSwan and WCD to the end of the game and be surprised if it turned into LYLO if it came to it because I think it's so unlikely that they are scum--pending today's reread of WCD, but with the hypercube/WCD stuff earlier, I just don't think anything's gonna come up in that read...
Mcmc is probably my least confident townread right now, so he will be one of the next couple people I reread, but there have been several times where his posts just don't seem like they come from scum.
I guess if I extended out and included the people I'm most likely to be wrong about, my lynchpool for today would be EFHW, Awaclus, and mcmc.
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Also looking at their interactions, I don't think WCD and EFHW are on the same team.
Which makes me feel more towny about WCD
Do you mean you think they're not both on the scum team?
If they were both on the town team, they wouldn't really know if they were on the same team or not, so how can you tell if they're on the same team or not?
I think he meant what he said. Meaning in their interactions, it looks like exactly one of the two of them is scum even though you aren't sure which one it is, not just that they don't look like a scum team, which is a different read altogether.
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Also looking at their interactions, I don't think WCD and EFHW are on the same team.
Which makes me feel more towny about WCD
Do you mean you think they're not both on the scum team?
If they were both on the town team, they wouldn't really know if they were on the same team or not, so how can you tell if they're on the same team or not?
I think he meant what he said. Meaning in their interactions, it looks like exactly one of the two of them is scum even though you aren't sure which one it is, not just that they don't look like a scum team, which is a different read altogether.
Oh ok. I don't get how that works, but I will defer to those with greater experience.
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I feel like if Fang flips town and EFHW is on the guillotine, we’ll be annoyed we put all our eggs in that basket. If he flips scum, different story.
@WCD
End of day 3, you were townreading EFHW based on a number of things (and I was glad to see that you at least had taken my advice to do a careful read through the end of day 2).
Also, at about the same time, you helped launch my wagon. So presumably you thought I was scum.
Now you are saying that if I were scum then you think EFHW would be scum. What happened to all those reasons you had for EFHW being town? Something changed?
And, as I think you give the best answers when you're under pressure, vote: WCD.
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Also looking at their interactions, I don't think WCD and EFHW are on the same team.
Which makes me feel more towny about WCD
Do you mean you think they're not both on the scum team?
If they were both on the town team, they wouldn't really know if they were on the same team or not, so how can you tell if they're on the same team or not?
I think he meant what he said. Meaning in their interactions, it looks like exactly one of the two of them is scum even though you aren't sure which one it is, not just that they don't look like a scum team, which is a different read altogether.
Oh ok. I don't get how that works, but I will defer to those with greater experience.
Hmmm...I don't know Joseph well enough to say, but I thought it was that WCD and EFHW weren't scum together. We have been opposed to each other quite a bit, especially early on, so I thought he meant we weren't working together (agreed), but I think we could both be town with different play styles.
PPE:1
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I feel like if Fang flips town and EFHW is on the guillotine, we’ll be annoyed we put all our eggs in that basket. If he flips scum, different story.
@WCD
End of day 3, you were townreading EFHW based on a number of things (and I was glad to see that you at least had taken my advice to do a careful read through the end of day 2).
Also, at about the same time, you helped launch my wagon. So presumably you thought I was scum.
Now you are saying that if I were scum then you think EFHW would be scum. What happened to all those reasons you had for EFHW being town? Something changed?
And, as I think you give the best answers when you're under pressure, vote: WCD.
I think there is a better than good chance that you are scum. If you are, then all of the partner stuff with EFHW becomes way more telling, especially later on when she still reads you as town when others of us did not. Even now, this feels like you trying to defend her as not your partner from the guillotine.
EFHW is very no-nonsense. I do quite a bit of nonsense chatter that she (very likely) does not appreciate. This helps create a friction in the game that is about personalities, not play necessarily. I have been trying to learn from others who have played with her more...mcmc has found her consistently scummy while others haven't, so I am trying to look at their reasons.
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I have to take issue with the idea that if fang is scum I must be his partner. Scum usually buddy town, not their partners.
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I have to take issue with the idea that if fang is scum I must be his partner. Scum usually buddy town, not their partners.
Agreed...I don’t think it’s an “if, then”. Rather, it’s hard to read people in context waiting for Fang’s flip.
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I have to take issue with the idea that if fang is scum I must be his partner. Scum usually buddy town, not their partners.
"Experienced scum usually buddy town, not their partners." ftfy
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I have to take issue with the idea that if fang is scum I must be his partner. Scum usually buddy town, not their partners.
"Experienced scum usually buddy town, not their partners." ftfy
With the game fang has played, if he is scum he could figure out not to act like he likes his partners too much.
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Prod everyone but EFHW, fang, mcmc, and WCD?
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Prod everyone but EFHW, fang, mcmc, and WCD?
I'm around
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I have to take issue with the idea that if fang is scum I must be his partner. Scum usually buddy town, not their partners.
"Experienced scum usually buddy town, not their partners." ftfy
Agree that if fang flips scum it doesn't look good for EFHW IMO
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Prod everyone but EFHW, fang, mcmc, and WCD?
Sent to DatSwan, Awaclus, pingpongsam
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Vote count 4.2
EFHW (2): pingpongsam, DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (1): infangthief
Not voting (6): Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
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Prod recieved.
I do not see a good option outside of EFHW today.
- If Fang flips Skum and EFHW is Skum, then the game ends.
- If fang flips Town, and EFHW is on the block - I like our chances of having skum on the block to continue our efforts.
- If Fang flips Skum, and EFHW is on the block then we gain all the info for read backs based on knowing EFHW's alignment. Which, is obviously very valuable this game.
Where else do we go?
The joseph case was brought up and ignored or fought with.
Not gonna be PPS.
Awaclus would be blind strategy.
Fang is on the block.
So, [Swan Dylan, WCD, MCMC]... or EFHW.
Someone make a case one someone if they don't wan't EFHW.
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I’m here, Unvote for now.
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I'm here.
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@DatSwan: How come you were so careful to say I wasn't necessarily scummy for my bussing theory but then jumped eagerly on my wagon when pps voted?
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
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In reference to the E kill versus the pps kill I thinks it’s purely wifom in terms of their opposing reads on efhw.
Swan makes an extremely long and interesting point about if fang is scum or town why scum would kill e over pps and comes to the conclusion that scum feel confident. I disagree with pps and anyone else saying that long circular post is towny.
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
Right? Most of her earlier scumminess had to do with moving her vote around near deadlines, but today has been different. Swan's post makes it sound like we don't have much choice....which seems pretty scummy, too.
EFHW, who do you think should be the target today?
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
Right? Most of her earlier scumminess had to do with moving her vote around near deadlines, but today has been different. Swan's post makes it sound like we don't have much choice....which seems pretty scummy, too.
EFHW, who do you think should be the target today?
I'm really not sure. I want to look at DatSwan again. I also want to review my bussing theory again. Though, without support, even if I'm right that won't go far.
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I'm here.
Do you think I am scum?
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I don’t think I want to lynch EFHW today. The fang flip should be relatively illuminating in that regard and the special game mechanic messes with the typical workflow of flipping for information in the following day. I’d like to review swan and Dylan with preference for swan. I mean, sure, Awaclus, but don’t expect reading that to be very enlightening.
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While lynching Awaclus wouldn't give much info on any potential partners if fang is town, this also might be the best chance to lynch him if we are ever going to. Ending up at LYLO with a player with as little to go on as he has given us this game essentially turns the end of the game into a coin toss, and as we get closer to that, each lynch will have more pressure to actually hit scum. Lynching him today would give us the info from Fang's flip without blindly putting EFHW on the block. And if Fang flips scum, Awaclus flips town, we likely win by putting EFHW on the block tomorrow and gg. If fang flips town, we still have time to look at other options and can probably remove EFHW from the next day's pool. We would probably be able to do better scumhunting at that point than we seem to be right now since we won't be dependent on Awaclus's flip for much info since either way it's basically going to be looking for hypercube partners or general scumminess since Awaclus has so few interactions with anyone. That's the upside of why lynching Awaclus today could be good strategically if noone else actually looks really scummy.
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I don’t think I want to lynch EFHW today. The fang flip should be relatively illuminating in that regard and the special game mechanic messes with the typical workflow of flipping for information in the following day. I’d like to review swan and Dylan with preference for swan. I mean, sure, Awaclus, but don’t expect reading that to be very enlightening.
But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
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I don’t think I want to lynch EFHW today. The fang flip should be relatively illuminating in that regard and the special game mechanic messes with the typical workflow of flipping for information in the following day. I’d like to review swan and Dylan with preference for swan. I mean, sure, Awaclus, but don’t expect reading that to be very enlightening.
But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
That's a good point, forgot about the lynch being IC'd if fang is scum. So it should probably be someone that we think is somewhat likely to be scum that also would be useful to have as an IC, which as of right now would not be Awaclus...
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I don’t think I want to lynch EFHW today. The fang flip should be relatively illuminating in that regard and the special game mechanic messes with the typical workflow of flipping for information in the following day. I’d like to review swan and Dylan with preference for swan. I mean, sure, Awaclus, but don’t expect reading that to be very enlightening.
But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
That's a good point, forgot about the lynch being IC'd if fang is scum. So it should probably be someone that we think is somewhat likely to be scum that also would be useful to have as an IC, which as of right now would not be Awaclus...
Bolded is true if they aren't scum themselves obviously.
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But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
That's a good point, forgot about the lynch being IC'd if fang is scum. So it should probably be someone that we think is somewhat likely to be scum that also would be useful to have as an IC, which as of right now would not be Awaclus...
Oh, I hadn’t quite understood that before, but I do now! The folks I have the most question about who would be really powerful ICs are EFHW and Mcmc.
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But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
That's a good point, forgot about the lynch being IC'd if fang is scum. So it should probably be someone that we think is somewhat likely to be scum that also would be useful to have as an IC, which as of right now would not be Awaclus...
Oh, I hadn’t quite understood that before, but I do now! The folks I have the most question about who would be really powerful ICs are EFHW and Mcmc.
Town slip ^. No way scum (even new scum) doesn't understand the point at which his team would lose by now and the implications for town being on the block with only one scum left.
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Difference between the two of us being I knew that earlier and forgot about it in my thinking today, WCD just didn't understand it.
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
lol I want you to quickly as you can go back and read any of the ones I have posted this game :P
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@DatSwan: How come you were so careful to say I wasn't necessarily scummy for my bussing theory but then jumped eagerly on my wagon when pps voted?
I said "I don't think this post has to be skummy" followed by "I still think EFHW is skummy".
I do not understand your confusion here.
PPS was the one that stated they thought your research could be skummy based on the content. While I disagree with your reasoning in the post, the work put into struck me as towny.
Pretty much it is all summarized in the very first line of the post where I stated:
"Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions"
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
Right? Most of her earlier scumminess had to do with moving her vote around near deadlines, but today has been different. Swan's post makes it sound like we don't have much choice....which seems pretty scummy, too.
EFHW, who do you think should be the target today?
I did no such thing. I ended the list with a group of potential other choices. I, personally, like EFHW the best. If someone else likes an alternative option - I am all ears. But you know, someone has to like... make a case on someone.
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But if fang flips scum then that gives us 100% read on whoever we guillotine. So it'd be good to guillotine the person we think most likely to be scum.
In general this is true, but it seems even more important when we might be able to IC people for a day
That's a good point, forgot about the lynch being IC'd if fang is scum. So it should probably be someone that we think is somewhat likely to be scum that also would be useful to have as an IC, which as of right now would not be Awaclus...
Oh, I hadn’t quite understood that before, but I do now! The folks I have the most question about who would be really powerful ICs are EFHW and Mcmc.
Town slip ^. No way scum (even new scum) doesn't understand the point at which his team would lose by now and the implications for town being on the block with only one scum left.
This whole interaction when I posted this a page back is strange.
- If Fang flips Skum, and EFHW is on the block then we gain all the info for read backs based on knowing EFHW's alignment. Which, is obviously very valuable this game.
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So I’m worried that today is by far the least scummy day efhw has had all game and the general consensus is that she is going to be lynched despite me pushing hard for her lynch all game and being absent so far today.
Swan I want you to as quickly as you can out together a case on efhw.
also my initial response to this was hasty (sorry) - are your serious like you want an updated case.. or have you just not had time to read back and check for my case?
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Vote count 4.3
EFHW (1): DatSwan
WestCoastDidds (1): infangthief
Not voting (7): Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm
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@DatSwan: How come you were so careful to say I wasn't necessarily scummy for my bussing theory but then jumped eagerly on my wagon when pps voted?
I said "I don't think this post has to be skummy" followed by "I still think EFHW is skummy".
I do not understand your confusion here.
PPS was the one that stated they thought your research could be skummy based on the content. While I disagree with your reasoning in the post, the work put into struck me as towny.
Pretty much it is all summarized in the very first line of the post where I stated:
"Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions"
You're right. But you did seem very careful to specify that the post wasn't scummy, just not persuasive to you. Why emphasize the distinction when the post's towniness didn't moderate your views at all? It feels like a conscious attempt to seem even-handed.
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This whole interaction when I posted this a page back is strange.
- If Fang flips Skum, and EFHW is on the block then we gain all the info for read backs based on knowing EFHW's alignment. Which, is obviously very valuable this game.
Oh, people have been explaining it from the beginning set up discussions, so don't think it's too strange that I was only partially understanding when you made the point, too. (I had to google "IC" so there's that! Ha!)The light bulb about what it meant for us didn't go on until yesterday. I was thinking more about the delayed flip than the fact that we'd still be playing would be a flip in and of itself.
I reread Mcmc last night. I'll post the summary when I'm at my computer, but basically he finds various people towny and votes for EFHW D1-3. He asks questions, but doesn't push anyone but EFHW. He doesn't seem partnered with anyone (town points) but he also hasn't engaged in any thinking or discussion that has led to any of our lynches (scum points). If I put EFHW in a town camp, it looks bad for him. If she's scum, he's known it from the start.
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@DatSwan: How come you were so careful to say I wasn't necessarily scummy for my bussing theory but then jumped eagerly on my wagon when pps voted?
I said "I don't think this post has to be skummy" followed by "I still think EFHW is skummy".
I do not understand your confusion here.
PPS was the one that stated they thought your research could be skummy based on the content. While I disagree with your reasoning in the post, the work put into struck me as towny.
Pretty much it is all summarized in the very first line of the post where I stated:
"Alright, so this is not to say I think this post is skummy... I mean I still think EFHW is skummy, but this seems like solid work. I do however, have a few "differences in opinion" regarding some of the interactions"
You're right. But you did seem very careful to specify that the post wasn't scummy, just not persuasive to you. Why emphasize the distinction when the post's towniness didn't moderate your views at all? It feels like a conscious attempt to seem even-handed.
Not attempting to seem anything.
Also, I don't get what you would be insinuating here with the even-handed comment. I mean... I get what you are insinuating... but that doesn't make any sense.
The only thing that you and I both know to a 100% certainty is that the team is not EFHW!Swan.... which is the only scenario in which I would have any reason to come off as "even-handed" in regards to a case on you at this point.
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I'm just having trouble figuring out how I can be scummy but the post towny. If you think I might be legit scumhunting, wouldn't that weaken your scumread on me? Cheerfully voting for me and calling the post not scummy feels like a real contradiction.
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Just prod dodging really. I'm finding it weird being on the guillotine.
I'm glad that the conversation has moved on from 'this all depends on fang's flip'. Seems like WCD and EFHW are taking us more useful places now. unvote
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In other news, some guy just walked past and was surprised to see me still here. Said something about getting an engineer to come and have a look at it. I tried to tell him there was no need but I don't think he heard me.
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Just prod dodging really. I'm finding it weird being on the guillotine.
I'm glad that the conversation has moved on from 'this all depends on fang's flip'. Seems like WCD and EFHW are taking us more useful places now. unvote
This comment about the conversation moving on feels like fang didn't like the fact his partner was immediately going to lynched when he flipped and is glad the conversation has moved on to potentially lynching someone else.
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I'm just having trouble figuring out how I can be scummy but the post towny. If you think I might be legit scumhunting, wouldn't that weaken your scumread on me? Cheerfully voting for me and calling the post not scummy feels like a real contradiction.
The effort put into the post itself did slightly weaken my SR on you. This was due to the fact that he content itself I was against, but just because I disagree with it doesn't mean it MUST be skummy. When the IC jumped on, that was that was an unbiased conf!town outsider agreeing with my thoughts. So yeah, I "happily" jumped on.
However, more importantly, you have over 130 posts this game. Even if this singular post was the "towniest that ever towned" type of post... I still, as I stated, would of thought you were skum. The fact that you are jumping to question to question regarding meaningless details and ignoring my responses along the way kind of just solidifies my opinion.
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Vote: EFHW
I did some re-reading and stuff but not very much came out of it.
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I'm just having trouble figuring out how I can be scummy but the post towny. If you think I might be legit scumhunting, wouldn't that weaken your scumread on me? Cheerfully voting for me and calling the post not scummy feels like a real contradiction.
The effort put into the post itself did slightly weaken my SR on you. This was due to the fact that he content itself I was against, but just because I disagree with it doesn't mean it MUST be skummy. When the IC jumped on, that was that was an unbiased conf!town outsider agreeing with my thoughts. So yeah, I "happily" jumped on.
However, more importantly, you have over 130 posts this game. Even if this singular post was the "towniest that ever towned" type of post... I still, as I stated, would of thought you were skum. The fact that you are jumping to question to question regarding meaningless details and ignoring my responses along the way kind of just solidifies my opinion.
I was looking to see if you are scum. But I don't think hyper would have bussed you. So, yeah.
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Awaclus has taken a stand on me. That makes his flip a bit more helpful, and mine, too, I guess.
vote: Awaclus.
If I thought fang was going to flip scum, I'd be fine with being lynched and being IC tomorrow. But even though I convinced myself for a short time that he was scum, I think I don't really believe that he is.
I'll be on for a short time close to deadline.
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Deadline is in 15 hours btw everyone.
I am gonna do some stuff now, then sleep... but I will be on for 3 hours+ up to DL.
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Reread WCD, and I just don't see a WCD/Hypercube team.
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Since there aren't many posts by Awaclus, with VCA he ended D1 on mcmc instead of Robz (+ for off town); he was on WCD instead of hypercube (- for being off scum); he was the first to park his vote on fang and then disappear for most of the day, never moving his vote as the wagon built up and put him on guillotine, so if fang flips scum, I'd feel a bitter better about Awaclus being town (ignoring how strong I'd feel about EFHW being scum anyway) unless he decided he was better off busing and going it alone.
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Reread mcmc. Still think he's town. Rational, and even though I didn't agree with everything he said during the game and has a couple moments where his reads were now clearly wrong (he scumread Space pretty hard), they sounded like they were usually actually built on cases more than what some other people have done this game, so it seems like he had genuinely been scumhunting rather than just manipulating. I could re-evaluate that if fang flips town, cuz he was pretty vocal in pushing a fang/EFHW partner narrative that I actually didn't remember. He actually tentatively called it D1. Probably not a good lynch for today, although if he was actually going to be more active like earlier in the game, he would make a good IC if he was on the chopping block with scum!fang and town!mcmc.
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So I have a meeting for the few hours leading right up to the deadline, and I hate mornings in general, so I can't promise I'll be up in time to spend time on here before it, so I guess I have to Vote: EFHW now. Since I do think fang is going to flip scum, I'm fine still going with EFHW for today because I think she would actually make a really good IC tomorrow if she's town. She's been obviously polarizing this game, and it's likely affected how open some people (self included) are to her theories, so being able to confidently listen tomorrow in the event I'm wrong about that partnership is worth doing this today rather than waiting. Besides, noone else really stuck out as super scummy after rereading, so I don't have anyone else that I'd rather put on guillotine today anyway.
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So I have a meeting for the few hours leading right up to the deadline, and I hate mornings in general, so I can't promise I'll be up in time to spend time on here before it, so I guess I have to Vote: EFHW now. Since I do think fang is going to flip scum, I'm fine still going with EFHW for today because I think she would actually make a really good IC tomorrow if she's town. She's been obviously polarizing this game, and it's likely affected how open some people (self included) are to her theories, so being able to confidently listen tomorrow in the event I'm wrong about that partnership is worth doing this today rather than waiting. Besides, noone else really stuck out as super scummy after rereading, so I don't have anyone else that I'd rather put on guillotine today anyway.
I agree with most of this.
I think EFHW is scum and if I'm wrong then hopefully she can be a good IC for us tomorrow.
Vote: EFHW
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Only if fang is scum.
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Vote count 4.4
EFHW (4): DatSwan, Awaclus, Joseph2302, Dylan32
Awaclus (1): EFHW
Not voting (4): WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, infangthief
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm. This is in 9 hours
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Request prod on PPS
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Vote count 4.4
EFHW (3): DatSwan, Awaclus, Joseph2302
Awaclus (1): EFHW
Not voting (5): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, infangthief
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm. This is in 9 hours
LaLight, I believe Dylan is also voting for EFHW.
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So as much as it would have been nice for the vig to have been able to shoot me today and cut through all of the 'if fang is scum, if fang is town' talk... I actually think it would be even more useful tomorrow.
I won't be around, but if EFHW's on the block and you don't know her alignment, that's going to be rough.
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Vote count 4.4
EFHW (3): DatSwan, Awaclus, Joseph2302
Awaclus (1): EFHW
Not voting (5): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam, infangthief
infangthief is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends Thursday, 29th of November, at 12pm. This is in 9 hours
LaLight, I believe Dylan is also voting for EFHW.
Fixed, thank you.
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Go on, vote: EFHW. Sorry EFHW.
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Damn. Hope she’s scum but after today not so sure. Had a dream about the game last night, probably while being prodded. McMc and Awaclus were the scums.
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It started raining and I was getting wet out here on the guillotine.
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Good morning....
That was the hammer, then? I think so. Well, I’m interested in seeing the flip. But the longer Lalight takes to see it, the better. 5 am is too early for a deadline in my book!
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Thread Locked
Good morning....
That was the hammer, then? I think so. Well, I’m interested in seeing the flip. But the longer Lalight takes to see it, the better. 5 am is too early for a deadline in my book!
Sorry.
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Vote count 4.final
EFHW (5): DatSwan, Awaclus, Joseph2302, Dylan32, infangthief
Awaclus (1): EFHW
Not voting (3): WestCoastDidds, mcmcsalot, pingpongsam
EFHW is on the guillotine.
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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infangthief was lynched. He was Town Doctor, a Mafia Lengthy Roleblocker.
Night 4 starts now and ends in 48 hours, 1st of December, 7am FT.
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pingpongsam was killed. They was Mafia Roleblocker, a Town Impatient Vigilante
Day 5 starts now!
Vote count 5.0
Not voting (7): Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
EFHW is on the guillotine.
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 8th of December, at 7am
Thread unlocked!
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Its always a little sad to be doing the dance of awesome scum lynching in my living room all alone. Two days later my enthusiasm has waned, but I am still pretty pumped that Fang flipped scum. Bye, PPS! You'll be missed. I'm also glad to know that EFHW is town.
As far as the interaction between Hyper and Fang, here is what I saw as relevant:
Scum one Hyper
449- says it would be nice to have Swan around more
464 vote space
D2
Votes EFHW for hopping around between Robz and WCD at end of D1
553 says he need to reread fang, seems scummy but was town before
576 votes efhw
656 Vote swan
682- says he will not vote fang
720- votes WCD (as a response to 718, this is the beginning exchange where he gets lynched)
And then his buddy Fang
331 Defends chairs/hyper
351 Vote Joseph
365 starts buddying efhw
last person get on Robz wagon
D2
581 WCD reread
627 takes Swan to task for the logic of his Joseph vote
632 buddy EFHW some more
647 votes DatSwan
649 votes WCD (at its largest, this wagon was Hyper, Fang, Awaclus, and EFHW)
729- tries to stop the Hyper wagon (from an outside angle) by arguing my reasons for moving off EFHW are specious.
D3
Early day 3- Hyper dies
862- defends EFHW
863- throws shade on DatSwan
885- won't lynch Joseph
887- responds to Mcmc questions
932- vote Awaclus
958- Says EFW is town
1009- says his scum pool is Awa, DatSwan, Dylan, Mcmc, votes DatSwan
D4 (on guillotine)
1075 Votes awaclus
1082 Votes WCD
1121 Unvotes WCD
1137 corrects LL to make sure EFHW is at L-1
1140 Hammers EFHW (Her wagon is EFHW (5): DatSwan, Awaclus, Joseph2302, Dylan32, infangthief)
From this, it looks like DatSwan, WCD, and Awaclus were getting the most votes from them so I am putting them aside for now. I appreciated Dylan's interactions in D4. At the final votes he was on EFHW (D1), Fang (solo vote D2), Fang lynch (3rd of 5 votes D3), EFHW (D4). The fang votes have him in the town camp for me.
Joseph gets a vote from Hyper but is defended by Fang. At the final votes he was on Robz (D1), Hyper lynch (5th of 7 votes D2), EFHW (D3), EFHW mislynch (3rd of 5 D4). His vote was critical to the hyper wagon, but he seems more town than not to me.
Which leaves, Mcmcsalot. There is very little interaction between the scum with Mcmc, and since he spent most of the game on EFHW, I'd like to hear how is is thinking about things now, and what you all are thinking about him.
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I did a different VCA, using Space's data. This is just the data, no conclusions yet:
Day 2 - 7 needed to lynch
WCD: fang and hyper were both on her from 720-792. Her wagon maxed out at 5 at 740 (Joseph joined).
Dylan stayed on fang for all of Day 2.
Joseph voted EFHW and WCD for most of Day 2. 744 he moved to hyper (6th on wagon) and stayed there.
mcmc stayed on EFHW all day 2.
Awaclus voted Dylan at 601 (2nd on wagon). at 722 he joined fang, hyper and EFHW on WCD (4th on wagon). Didn't move again.
DatSwan voted fang at 552 (3rd on wagon). at 595 he moved to Joseph (1st on wagon). 738 moved to hyper, 4th on wagon.
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As IC, I'm going to try to keep my opinions to myself for a lot of the day. Feel free to analyze my data.
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Oh, I am really interested in your opinions, especially since you are above suspicion. Please share!
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Oh, I am really interested in your opinions, especially since you are above suspicion. Please share!
It makes it too easy for scum to sheep. I'll say if I really disagree with something.
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I will be most likely absent for the next 1 IRL day.
Did rreads at night, which I will expand upon when I have time. In Summary - It made me interested in looking into Dylan, MCMC, and Awaclus.
The other key thing that I looked into were to comments people made on "if Fang flips skum it makes EFHW look skummy".
I will get into the individuals later, but the important part to remember is that the last skum knew the whole time Fang was going to flip skum... since there were several people trying to create ties suggesting EFHW!Fang team... I find it really weird that the EFHW lynch actually went off... I would of assumed last skum and Fang would of pushed like any other mislynch towards the end and use fang's flip to set up EFHW today.
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Which leaves, Mcmcsalot. There is very little interaction between the scum with Mcmc, and since he spent most of the game on EFHW, I'd like to hear how is is thinking about things now, and what you all are thinking about him.
Strongly agree with this.
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Welp, looks like I have some crow to eat since I did really think the game was gonna end post flip when we put EFHW on the block. Man, I guess I'm gonna have to do a full game reread, because noone else had really stuck out as scummy to me.
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Welp, looks like I have some crow to eat since I did really think the game was gonna end post flip when we put EFHW on the block. Man, I guess I'm gonna have to do a full game reread, because noone else had really stuck out as scummy to me.
Unfortunately I'm in the same boat too.
I was sure EFHW was scum and so I'll need to reread.
Away today so will try and reread in 1-2 days time
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I am not very good at being patient.
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I guess I should also re-read again.
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Here is the Day 1 data:
WCD: v. EFHW at 160 (2nd), v, DatSwan at 256 (1st), v. EFHW at 304 (3rd), v, Robz at 432 (5th)
WCD Day 2 (I didn't give this before): 536 v. fang (2nd), 615 v. EFHW (4th) 636 unvote, 718 v. hyper (1st) until eod.
Joseph: 58 v. mcmc (1st), 129 v. hyper (1st), 405 v. Robz (3rd)
mcmc: 117 v. Dylan (1st), 301 v. EFHW (2nd), 467 v. Space (3rd), 471 v. EFHW (2nd)
Dylan: 104 v. EFHW (1st) and stayed there for the rest of the day.
DatSwan: 325 v. Awaclus (1st) and stayed there.
Awaclus: Did not vote Day 1.
Hyper and fang voted known town until 271 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd) 294 Hyper v. WCD (4th) 351 fang v. Joseph (2nd) 381 Hyper v. Joseph (4th) 465 Hyper v. space 474 fang v. Robz (6th) 489 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd). They both were on pps from 204-271 and were both on Joseph from 381-465.
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Day 3: 5 needed to lynch
WCD voted Dylan at 949 (2nd) and fang at 972 (2nd).
Joseph voted EFHW at 850 (2nd) and stayed there.
mcmc voted EFHW at 845 (1st) and stayed there.
Dylan voted EFHW at 906 (3rd) and fang at 980 (3rd).
DatSwan voted EFHW at 953 (4th).
Awaclus voted fang at 893 (1st) and stayed.
fang voted Awaclus at 933 (1st), then specifically unvoted Awaclus and voted DatSwan at 1010 (1st)
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For the sake of completeness -- Day 4: 5 needed to lynch
WCD did not vote Day 4.
Joseph v. EFHW at 1134 (4th)
mcmc did not vote Day 4.
Dylan v. EFHW at 1133 (3rd)
DatSwan v. EFHW at 1056 (2nd) and stayed
Awaclus v. EFHW at 1126 (2nd)
fang v. Awaclus at 1076 (1st), WCD at 1083 (1st), unvoted at 1122, and v. EFHW at 1141 (hammer)
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Consolidated
WCD:
Day 1 -- v. EFHW at 160 (2nd), v. DatSwan at 256 (1st), v. EFHW at 304 (3rd), v. Robz at 432 (5th)
Day 2 -- 536 v. fang (2nd), 615 v. EFHW (4th) 636 unvote, 718 v. hyper (1st) until eod.
Day 3 -- Dylan at 949 (2nd) and fang at 972 (2nd).
Day 4 -- did not vote Day 4.
Joseph:
Day 1 -- 58 v. mcmc (1st), 129 v. hyper (1st), 405 v. Robz (3rd)
Day 2 -- v. EFHW and WCD for most of Day 2. 744 he moved to hyper (6th) and stayed there.
Day 3 -- EFHW at 850 (2nd)
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1134 (4th)
mcmc:
Day 1 -- 117 v. Dylan (1st), 301 v. EFHW (2nd), 467 v. Space (3rd), 471 v. EFHW (2nd)
Day 2 -- EFHW all day 2.
Day 3 -- EFHW at 845 (1st) and stayed there.
Day 4 -- Did not vote.
Dylan:
Day 1 -- 104 v. EFHW (1st) and stayed there for the rest of the day.
Day 2 -- stayed on fang for all of Day 2.
Day 3 -- voted EFHW at 906 (3rd) and fang at 980 (3rd).
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1133 (3rd)
DatSwan:
Day 1 -- 325 v. Awaclus (1st) and stayed there.
Day 2 -- fang at 552 (3rd), at 595 Joseph (1st ), 738 hyper (4th).
Day 3 -- EFHW at 953 (4th).
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1056 (2nd) and stayed
Awaclus:
Day 1 -- Did not vote.
Day 2 -- Dylan at 601 (2nd), WCD at 722 (4th). Didn't move again.
Day 3 -- fang at 893 (1st) and stayed.
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1126 (2nd)
Hyper and fang:
Day 1 -- Hyper and fang voted known town until 271 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd) 294 Hyper v. WCD (4th) 351 fang v. Joseph (2nd) 381 Hyper v. Joseph (4th) 465 Hyper v. space 474 fang v. Robz (6th) 489 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd). They both were on pps from 204-271 and were both on Joseph from 381-465.
Day 2 -- Hyper v. Joseph 553 (1st); Hyper v. EFHW 576 (3rd); fang v. DatSwan 647 (1st), fang v. WCD 649 (1st); Hyper v. DatSwan 656 (2nd); Both on WCD from 720-792.
Day 3 -- fang v. Awaclus at 933 (1st), then DatSwan at 1010 (1st)
Day 4 -- fang v. Awaclus at 1076 (1st), WCD at 1083 (1st), unvoted at 1122, and v. EFHW at 1141 (hammer)
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Thanks for going through and compiling all that EFHW.
I guess pending the reread that I think I'll have time for tomorrow evening, some things that jump out to me.
1) Mcmc and I are the only two people that neither known scum voted for.
2) WCD and Joseph each had both scum on their wagon at the same time.
3) Datswan only other person both scum voted for at some point.
4) Awaclus showed up in scum votes only after D2 when Fang placed his first two votes on him each of D3 and D4.
5) This is a question for EFHW in case you remember off the top of your head and an observation in one: Did fang and hyper vote for each other and you left it off the list, or did they really not bus each other at all?
6) Mcmc hasn't voted for scum all game.
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Thoughts on that list of observations:
Oh another observation: WCD was the only person on both scum lynch wagons, and I was the only other person to end 2 days on scum (fang D2 and 3). Either WCD is a double busing mastermind, or they're town. Not lynching.
WCD, Joseph, and DatSwan come out looking really towny (in order from most to least) if we think neither fang nor hyper bused at all.
Mcmc comes out looking the worst because every single one of his votes has been on known town and neither scum had a single vote for him. But would he actually let the game go this long without voting for one of his partners? Interestingly, he's basically only tunneled EFHW (even more than I did) with one vote each for me and Space on D1, alternated with votes for EFHW.
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The thing that really strikes me there is that mcmc hasn't voted for, on been voted for by, any scum this entire game
That seems scummy to me
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And WCD seems towny, as I don't think they'd have tried to bus both their scum buddies on D2
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And WCD seems towny, as I don't think they'd have tried to bus both their scum buddies on D2
Ditto for DatSwan
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My current thoughts are that scum is most likely to be :
Mcmc > Awaclus > Dylan
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In response to EFHW's posts:
I think it is unlikely that both the found skum double bussed their buddy on either D1 or D2. So Joseph and WCD look pretty clean from my PoV.
Day 1 they were both on Joseph essentially all day Fang switching off of Joseph to Robz could be seen as defense, but as they were both on Joseph all day... I am really not seeing it there.
Day 2 Joseph chooses to go to Hyper over WCD to put them at L-1 right before the Hypercube fake claim. We now know it has to be Hyper!Fang!XXX, so as it can't be WCD AND Joseph... so Joseph wasn't cornered... them choosing Hyper over they other viable wagon again points to town. And again, both Fang and Hyper double bus on WCD during day 2... which I think point to town to WCD.
The thing that holds me up most about Day 2 is Hyper putting their self at L-1... Why do that? My opinion is it was strong signaling to hammer them down for credit and PPS just beat the mate to it.
The following days I have so many speculations about it is unreal... but from it all I at least know I do not want to lynch Joseph or WCD at this point.
I want to vote Awaclus but I am afraid of how easy of a wagon that would be ramp up at this point.
I want to hear stuff from MCMC.
Dylan is currently my bottom choice of the three.
So pretty much, I would like MCMC to come back to life if possible.
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Prod Mcmc, please
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Mcmc has a VLA announcment from when we were in night, but said he'd have access....
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Thanks, EFHW, for doing the work on the vote count. That is helpful.
I feel like my town homies are Joseph, DatSwan, and Dylan. I think Mcmc is scummy and Awaclus is null with a touch of scum.
I am pretty much ready to vote for mcmc, but would like to hear what he has to say now that EFHW is IC and that is the only place he has spent his time this game. I find the distinct lack of interaction between him and the scum telling. I don't see that Fang or Hyper were doing any bussing and it would have been (or, in fact, was) easy for Mcmc to just avoid any interaction with them entirely. But now that they've been caught, it looks super shady.
I am waiting to vote because I understand why EFHW was a target. I was on her initially, but by Day 4 there was far more to suggest that she was town than to suggest that she was scum. Mcmc says as much at #1098 and doesn't vote at all. (I didn't vote either. The day ended before I was on in the morning, but I'd have voted Mcmc or Awaclus if I had made it before the hammer.)
So, in short....I'm thinking Mcmc has some 'splaining to do
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5) This is a question for EFHW in case you remember off the top of your head and an observation in one: Did fang and hyper vote for each other and you left it off the list, or did they really not bus each other at all?
They did not bus each other at all.
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Prod Mcmc, please
He has an announced VLA. He wouldn't announce it if there would be no probability that he would have little to no access, so I will not prod him for now.
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Thanks, EFHW, for doing the work on the vote count. That is helpful.
I feel like my town homies are Joseph, DatSwan, and Dylan. I think Mcmc is scummy and Awaclus is null with a touch of scum.
I am pretty much ready to vote for mcmc, but would like to hear what he has to say now that EFHW is IC and that is the only place he has spent his time this game. I find the distinct lack of interaction between him and the scum telling. I don't see that Fang or Hyper were doing any bussing and it would have been (or, in fact, was) easy for Mcmc to just avoid any interaction with them entirely. But now that they've been caught, it looks super shady.
I am waiting to vote because I understand why EFHW was a target. I was on her initially, but by Day 4 there was far more to suggest that she was town than to suggest that she was scum. Mcmc says as much at #1098 and doesn't vote at all. (I didn't vote either. The day ended before I was on in the morning, but I'd have voted Mcmc or Awaclus if I had made it before the hammer.)
So, in short....I'm thinking Mcmc has some 'splaining to do
Agreed.
Although if it's one of mcmc and Awaclus, we can always guillotine one today and the other tomorrow if need be
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Sorry guys been busier than expected I’ll try and find time soon (a couple hours) to participate. First thoughts, I’m less surprised that I wish I was that efhw is town.
From what little I’ve gleamed I see that people are finding me scummy for not having much voting interactions with scum. I have almost no voting interactions with anyone. That’s common for me, I make cases but only move my vote when needed unless it’s my current case.
While things like vote analysis and post counts (I’m the only one to do that and will update it) are great metrics they can be screwed and misrepresented easily. The actual content contributions are more objective and I stand by my early efhw case which I thought it was good and it lessened as the days went on and fang became increasingly scummy. The day ended while I was not around and perhaps that is my fault for not being as present as I should. I will have more in regards to others later but that hopefully clarified some of my play for now.
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Post Count (includes pregame):
wcd: 121
joseph: 83
mcmc: 80
dylan: 58
swan: 56
awacus: 42
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Okay thoughts on yesterday.
Content wise it begins with people questioning the 2.7 kill over pps and then discussing the probability that if fang flips scum efhw is scum. Both of these are non starters. The kill discussion boils quickly down to wifom and the continued discussion of how we should read efhw based off fang's alignment is useless because we did not have fang's alignment. So instead of viewing results of the previous day and potentially reacting to them and changing reads accordingly (as should be done every day) we were distracted by these other conversations.
These two conversations were largely pushed by datswan, and at the time he received town cred for them. But if you look at the effect it keeps us at the status quo (an assumed efhw lynch).
The wagon for efhw is slow to start, specifically because I have not swarmed out of the gate calling for her lynch (as I believe scum thought I would). PPS had a known scum read on EFHW and swan had joined but other than that Dylan and WCD are engaging and asking questions, awaclus was as always absent but following. Then I post that I am concerned by the efhw wagon, that it was the least scummy day for her and that the wagon is finally getting traction despite me no longer pushing it. It began very much to feel like my tunnel wa going to be used by scum and that as time had gone on efhw had gotten less and less scummy. WCD seconds this point and I believe there is more rereading to be done and a representing of the efhw case that needs to be made. Before that can be done in a period of 6 hour EFHW recieves 3 votes, Awaclus, Dylan, Joseph.
Vote: EFHW
I did some re-reading and stuff but not very much came out of it.
And
So I have a meeting for the few hours leading right up to the deadline, and I hate mornings in general, so I can't promise I'll be up in time to spend time on here before it, so I guess I have to Vote: EFHW now. Since I do think fang is going to flip scum, I'm fine still going with EFHW for today because I think she would actually make a really good IC tomorrow if she's town. She's been obviously polarizing this game, and it's likely affected how open some people (self included) are to her theories, so being able to confidently listen tomorrow in the event I'm wrong about that partnership is worth doing this today rather than waiting. Besides, noone else really stuck out as super scummy after rereading, so I don't have anyone else that I'd rather put on guillotine today anyway.
I agree with most of this.
I think EFHW is scum and if I'm wrong then hopefully she can be a good IC for us tomorrow.
Vote: EFHW
The towniest of these votes is clearly Dylans, Awaclus and joseph both give us nothing and there is lots of scum motivation behind those votes. Scum!awaclus needs to finally put his vote down to secure efhw as the lynch because there is a chance wcd and I do not. Scum!joseph could be lazily hammering there but I actually think its fine for scum to sit efhw at L-1 so I guess the scummiest vote is by far awaclus.
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So I am torn, overall day datswan was the scummiest player, rambling through scenarios and conversation that I think derailed the rest of town from posting discussing last end of day. But his vote is much more consistent in a read that he held were awaclus's vote has come out of nowhere.
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The other thing that is worrying is swan's 58 posts, awaclus is at a standard level of participation for his play as either alignment, Swan I am always suprised by how high he is on post counts because he tends to wall post as either alignment but this game his count is unusually low.
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Post Count (includes pregame):
wcd: 121
joseph: 83
mcmc: 80
dylan: 58
swan: 56
awacus: 42
I'm the second biggest poster? Guys you really need to post more
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Vote count 5.1
Not voting (7): Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, mcmcsalot
EFHW is on the guillotine.
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 8th of December, at 7am
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work got me today. I will catch up tomorrow.
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Interesting, Mcmc.
The thing about DatSwan for me is that he was the critical mass vote for hyper. There were other viable wagons then (mine!) so he didn’t need to vote there to protect himself or some such. And the hyper lynch, it seems to me, was huge in terms of the game. Finding scum that early from a wagon that was almost entirely based on gut reads from me and Robz felt surprising to me (perhaps my inexperience showing).
Awaclus has been off and on Fang all game, but hasn’t said much about anything. Would he have bussed his partner?
EFHW, what do you think about mcmc’s response?
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I'll save my comments for later.
I think it's Awaclus's turn to explain to us why he is town!
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In reply to mcmc's long post where he discussed the EFHW wagon: Joseph didn't hammer and was actually L-1. Scum!fang hammered.
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In reply to mcmc's long post where he discussed the EFHW wagon: Joseph didn't hammer and was actually L-1. Scum!fang hammered.
So if it is true that scum was cool letting EFHW hang at L-1 like you said, Joseph should be getting those scum points instead of Awaclus.
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In reply to mcmc's long post where he discussed the EFHW wagon: Joseph didn't hammer and was actually L-1. Scum!fang hammered.
You are correct I was reading the vote count after josephs vote as the final vote count. Joseph L-1 ing efhw there is actually quite scummy.
The on guillotine mechanic is actually extremely interesting because the remaining scum was 100% aware fang was scum and that fang would hammer a town player with no worry at all because he then is instantly killed. So yes josephs lackluster vote after the quick votes by awaclus and dylan is extremely scummy. I need to reread joseph.
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I think it's Awaclus's turn to explain to us why he is town!
Well, I didn't do a whole lot this game, but I think that the evidence that exists supports a town narrative better than a scum one:
1) I voted for chairs/hypercube on my own accord and encouraged others to do the same early on. I probably would not do this to the scum PR if I was scum.
2) I helped faust and e out by jumping on the wagons they were pushing on WCD and Dylan, respectively. (I told WCD I had a "more compelling reason" to lynch her, but I didn't really; I just wanted to give more weight to the wagon that a towny player was pushing)
Apparently some other people also found me towny earlier, for reasons I don't understand.
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(I told WCD I had a "more compelling reason" to lynch her, but I didn't really; I just wanted to give more weight to the wagon that a towny player was pushing)
I read this to my kid and his assessment was “he’s a meanie!” Which, while irrelevant, made me laugh.
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Will post my thoughts tomorrow.
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(I told WCD I had a "more compelling reason" to lynch her, but I didn't really; I just wanted to give more weight to the wagon that a towny player was pushing)
I read this to my kid and his assessment was “he’s a meanie!” Which, while irrelevant, made me laugh.
This morning small one revised his opinion. “Not a meanie, just a stinker”. I think I probably agree with that.
Awa, in D2, I voted for Hyper. Then he voted for me. Then Robz voted for Hoer, then you voted for me, and kept your vote there until EOD. What had me as scum from that interaction? And why not Hyper?
On D3, you voted for Fang early on. Why?
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Awa, in D2, I voted for Hyper. Then he voted for me. Then Robz voted for Hoer, then you voted for me, and kept your vote there until EOD. What had me as scum from that interaction? And why not Hyper?
On D3, you voted for Fang early on. Why?
1) Nothing, I was just a little disappointed at how little came of your wagon from D1, so I wanted to push it more since there was an opportunity. I could have also pushed for hypercube but as stated, I was VLA at the time so I wasn't thinking too hard about what to do.
2) I don't remember.
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Who do you think you’ll vote for today?
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I'd just vote already if I knew.
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What do people make of fang voting Awaclus Days 3 and 4?
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What do people make of fang voting Awaclus Days 3 and 4?
mcmc, what do you think about it?
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What do people make of fang voting Awaclus Days 3 and 4?
mcmc, what do you think about it?
Day three awaclus is in no danger. But is also an easy vote. I think it’s a smart move from fang because it doesn’t tell much. He was clearly trying to show buddying with you so he wouldn’t vote there and was still hoping to avoid his lynch so didn’t want to try cases on more active players who might put up a fight. I think day four it’s interesting, he leads off with the awaclus vote almost as a carry over but drops it quickly for a pressure vote on wcd. I think not sticking to the awaclus vote once he was lynched looks partnery as opposed to weak town case. Once fang is lynched he should be pushing any non efhw town lynch he can and is read of really going in at awaclus he goes all over the place and let’s efhw take center stage and get lynched. If awaclus isn’t gangs partner an in dang I am going all out crusading that I am still town as is efhw and we need to be lynching awaclus, that way my partner gets a datswan and efhw lynch before needing to do any heavy lifting. Fang seemed to just fizzle and wait for he inevitable efhw lynch.
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Awaclus seems any easy target for Fang. Awa doesn’t fight back much and is null enough for everyone that no one feels like it’s super scummy, even if it doesn’t gather momentum. In my (limited) experience it seems like Awaclus gets lynched sometimes for being hard to play with. I don’t feel like the Fang votes have cleared him, or deemed partnery. Meh.
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work got me today. I will catch up tomorrow.
Will we hear from you soon?
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@Awaclus, why did you vote me yesterday?
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In reply to mcmc's long post where he discussed the EFHW wagon: Joseph didn't hammer and was actually L-1. Scum!fang hammered.
So if it is true that scum was cool letting EFHW hang at L-1 like you said, Joseph should be getting those scum points instead of Awaclus.
How are you feeling about Mcmc? Awaclus?
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work got me today. I will catch up tomorrow.
Will we hear from you soon?
Yes - sorry work has been stupid busy. I will go through for responses now and post up my notes when I get home tonight.
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@Awaclus, why did you vote me yesterday?
Just to do something, I guess.
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What do people make of fang voting Awaclus Days 3 and 4?
On Day 3, I do not see the reason for un voting Awaclus and voting for me towards the end if Awaclus was skum. I assume he would of stayed there once they realized they were going down. However, what does make sense is Skum!Fang was on Awaclus all day and it got literally zero traction so they just tried to switch to try to save themselves.
On Day 4, kind of the same thing just on a lesser timeline. Throws WCD into the mix, I mean Fang was on WCD before, but briefly.
All in all I think it actually makes awaclus look towny to an extent. I think Fang was grasping at straws and was trying to push a wagon they thought they could get support for without a ton of reason. I really don't know what to make of the vote on me and the vote on WCD but my current theory would be they were just trying to poke at anything that could get started.
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Alright, I am feeling good about voting mcmc here.
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vote: mcmc
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Vote: mcmcsalot
It’s a busy day for me (last day of classes! Woot!) but I’ll be around this evening.
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Alright, I am feeling good about voting mcmc here.
Mcmc and Awaclus are my two preferred choices, as everyone else seems towny to me
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Alright, I am feeling good about voting mcmc here.
Mcmc and Awaclus are my two preferred choices, as everyone else seems towny to me
Agreed. I feel like everyone is clearing themselves by virtue of previous votes. Even Awaclus, to a certain extent, although he is still fairly impenetrable to me.
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Vote count 5.2
mcmcsalot (2): EFHW, WestCoastDidds
Not voting (5): Dylan32, DatSwan, Joseph2302, Awaclus, mcmcsalot
EFHW is on the guillotine.
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends Saturday, 8th of December, at 7am
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Alright, I am feeling good about voting mcmc here.
Mcmc and Awaclus are my two preferred choices, as everyone else seems towny to me
Agreed. I feel like everyone is clearing themselves by virtue of previous votes. Even Awaclus, to a certain extent, although he is still fairly impenetrable to me.
My preference as stated before is to lynch one of them today, and the other tomorrow (if needed)
But I think mcmc is scummiest
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My preference as stated before is to lynch one of them today, and the other tomorrow (if needed)
Why are you posting your preference for tomorrow?
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Vote: mcmc is my preferred option
L-2
PPE:1
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My preference as stated before is to lynch one of them today, and the other tomorrow (if needed)
Why are you posting your preference for tomorrow?
I said earlier, I think everyone else is town.
So if we lynch mcmc and Awaclus, I think we'll win
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My preference as stated before is to lynch one of them today, and the other tomorrow (if needed)
Why are you posting your preference for tomorrow?
Because once he get both me and you mislynched he is as end game with you on guillotine and whoever he thinks you find scummiest out of Dylan swan and wcd.
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I will have zero availability starting soon and lasting for roughly 24 hours. I will be back by deadline.
I urge everyone to try and think about what the case is on me. That I didn’t have much voting interactions with scum. It’s because I didn’t have voting interactions with many people at all. Awaclus similarly has been quite. That’s why we are being lynched not for being scummy.
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I will have zero availability starting soon and lasting for roughly 24 hours. I will be back by deadline.
I urge everyone to try and think about what the case is on me. That I didn’t have much voting interactions with scum. It’s because I didn’t have voting interactions with many people at all. Awaclus similarly has been quite. That’s why we are being lynched not for being scummy.
Mcmc, do you have a case on Joseph?? If so, please share!
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I don’t have time to fully articulate it now. Checking out of my hotel. It’s roughly that he had an early case on him hat died down and then allowed him to dodge much suspicion. His vote for efhw yesterday was an extremely scummy l-1 which assured efhw’s lynch and it came less than an hour after 2 previous votes before the ic or me who had been pushing efhw days prior but had doubts based on who picked up the case.
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vote: Joseph
This I don’t care if we lynch mcmc or awaclus because one will be an ic if we are wrong is silly. It’s just lazily setting up multiple lynched with no solid case. Also if you do think both me and awaclus should be lynched I personally think I’m the more active better person to be our final day ic.
Whoever is lynched tommorow will decide the game for town if we have t found scum yet.
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I said earlier, I think everyone else is town.
So if we lynch mcmc and Awaclus, I think we'll win
If you're town, I hope you're at least lying about your reads because otherwise scum will have a ridiculously easy time deciding whether or not you're someone who can help them push through a mislynch.
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Vote: Joseph
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This is interesting. Went into last night after realizing the game wasn't ending thinking that if we lynched mcmc and Awaclus that I'd feel good about the win there. That nothing has really happened other than mcmc being more active and making some cases actually worries me a little. I'm not sure if it's cornered scum and the real townies are thinking like I am or if the scum is hiding out letting us coast to an eventual win for them, and some of mcmc's points have been pretty good... I'm essentially LA for the rest of the day (physical day, not in game day), but I want to reread the last couple days specifically to see who has been more on the side of the status quo and who has actually been questioning and scumhunting. I very much don't want to see a lynch go through this soon with this little interaction going on since we are at least a day away from the deadline.
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Vote: mcmc is my preferred option
L-2
PPE:1
This is actually L-1.
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Vote: mcmc is my preferred option
L-2
PPE:1
This is actually L-1.
Oh. That is interesting. No-one dared to quickhammer it.
Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
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Vote: mcmc is my preferred option
L-2
PPE:1
This is actually L-1.
Oh. That is interesting. No-one dared to quickhammer it.
Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
Could also mean that if mcmc is right, you are scummy for trying to set up a derphammer by going to L-1 again to avoid being the hammer. There's that option too in addition to the 2 you listed.
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Vote: mcmc is my preferred option
L-2
PPE:1
This is actually L-1.
Oh. That is interesting. No-one dared to quickhammer it.
Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
Could also mean that if mcmc is right, you are scummy for trying to set up a derphammer by going to L-1 again to avoid being the hammer. There's that option too in addition to the 2 you listed.
Not something I need to consider, because I'm town
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Vote: Awaclus
Why Joseph?
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Why Awaclus?
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And why not mcmc?
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Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
Or the third option which you conveniently forgot to mention, which is that scum is already on the wagon.
Vote: Awaclus
Why Joseph?
Because he's scum.
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Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
Or the third option which you conveniently forgot to mention, which is that scum is already on the wagon.
Vote: Awaclus
Why Joseph?
Because he's scum.
... so is it Joseph or me?
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While I understand we need to look at more than VCA, I do have some thing to point out about Joseph regarding my dislike of their wagon:
Day 1) At the end of D1, both Fang and Hyper got on Joseph's wagon bringing him to (5). That is 2/5 skum on the wagon, when they could of made the (5) wagon either Robz or EFHW instead. They stayed there all the way down to Joseph(3), and then after the wagon dissipates, they move elsewhere. That is the exact opposite of a Skum Narrative of D1 voting actions, and matches up pretty clearly with a Narrative of 2 skum trying to push any good mis-lynch wagon.
Day 2) Since we know it is Skum!Fang and Skum!Hyper... think about the following from a Skum!Joseph POV. Towards the end of Day 2, Joseph switches their vote onto Hypercube to put them at L-1 when they just of easily could of voted for the WCD counter wagon. If Joseph is skum, then WCD is town... and we know Hyper was skum... so yeah that doesn't really make any damn sense.
Day 3) Joseph is on EFHW for the majority of the day until the end. He doesn't switch to Fang... which I actually read as towny because I assume skum would make sure to be on that bus.
Day 4) Joseph got on EFHW as #3, when they could of been on Awaclus as #2. Aside from that... with the suggested narrative from others on Day 4 regarding "EFHW being skum if Fang flips skum".... why in all the hell would he push an EFHW lynch? Like, literally, skum would want to push ANY other lynch at that point so they could set up EFHW the next day because they would know that Fang is gonna flip skum.
So yeah, I don't like our chances with Joseph.
@ EFHW - The above is why "not Joseph". As for why "not MCMC"... If I am picking between Joseph and MCMC I am going for MCMC. But my "reason" would be that skum at this point would want to create the most likely scenario for tomorrow to promote a mislynch. Right now that would be done by having two close competing wagons (both town) run out the end of the day so that the living player can be set up tomorrow. I also think that Skum!MCMC would pick both either Awaclus or myself as a counter wagon as opposed to Joseph at this point.
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Why Awaclus?
I have to step out, but I will give my answer to this later tonight.
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Hmm....I'm not seeing a good reason to move my vote at present, but I get that folks are having life right now and catching up as they can so I'll keep following along. I'm also going to try to reread D4 and 5 tomorrow, but I'd like to see Mcmc more fully flesh out his Joseph read, especially in light of Swan's comments.
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... so is it Joseph or me?
Who am I voting for?
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Awa's question took me a second...so to save you the scroll
Vote count 5.Didds
Mcmc (3): EFHW, WCD, Joseph
Joseph (2): Mcmc, Awaclus
Awaclus(1): DatSwan
Not voting: Dylan
Take 4 to lynch. Day ends on Saturday at 7 AM.
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... so is it Joseph or me?
Who am I voting for?
Yeah i misread on this. Obviously, you have been stating Joseph
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@mcmc and Awaclus, what do you think of Datswan's not Joseph post?
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REPOSTING for ease of reference
Consolidated
WCD:
Day 1 -- v. EFHW at 160 (2nd), v. DatSwan at 256 (1st), v. EFHW at 304 (3rd), v. Robz at 432 (5th)
Day 2 -- 536 v. fang (2nd), 615 v. EFHW (4th) 636 unvote, 718 v. hyper (1st) until eod.
Day 3 -- Dylan at 949 (2nd) and fang at 972 (2nd).
Day 4 -- did not vote Day 4.
Joseph:
Day 1 -- 58 v. mcmc (1st), 129 v. hyper (1st), 405 v. Robz (3rd)
Day 2 -- v. EFHW and WCD for most of Day 2. 744 he moved to hyper (6th) and stayed there.
Day 3 -- EFHW at 850 (2nd)
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1134 (4th)
mcmc:
Day 1 -- 117 v. Dylan (1st), 301 v. EFHW (2nd), 467 v. Space (3rd), 471 v. EFHW (2nd)
Day 2 -- EFHW all day 2.
Day 3 -- EFHW at 845 (1st) and stayed there.
Day 4 -- Did not vote.
Dylan:
Day 1 -- 104 v. EFHW (1st) and stayed there for the rest of the day.
Day 2 -- stayed on fang for all of Day 2.
Day 3 -- voted EFHW at 906 (3rd) and fang at 980 (3rd).
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1133 (3rd)
DatSwan:
Day 1 -- 325 v. Awaclus (1st) and stayed there.
Day 2 -- fang at 552 (3rd), at 595 Joseph (1st ), 738 hyper (4th).
Day 3 -- EFHW at 953 (4th).
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1056 (2nd) and stayed
Awaclus:
Day 1 -- Did not vote.
Day 2 -- Dylan at 601 (2nd), WCD at 722 (4th). Didn't move again.
Day 3 -- fang at 893 (1st) and stayed.
Day 4 -- EFHW at 1126 (2nd)
Hyper and fang:
Day 1 -- Hyper and fang voted known town until 271 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd) 294 Hyper v. WCD (4th) 351 fang v. Joseph (2nd) 381 Hyper v. Joseph (4th) 465 Hyper v. space. 474 fang v. Robz (6th), 489 Hyper v. Joseph (2nd). They both were on pps from 204-271 and were both on Joseph from 381-465.
Day 2 -- Hyper v. Joseph 553 (1st); Hyper v. EFHW 576 (3rd); fang v. DatSwan 647 (1st), fang v. WCD 649 (1st); Hyper v. DatSwan 656 (2nd); Both on WCD from 720-792.
Day 3 -- fang v. Awaclus at 933 (1st), then DatSwan at 1010 (1st)
Day 4 -- fang v. Awaclus at 1076 (1st), WCD at 1083 (1st), unvoted at 1122, and v. EFHW at 1141 (hammer)
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@mcmc and Awaclus, what do you think of Datswan's not Joseph post?
It was long.
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Day 4) Joseph got on EFHW as #3, when they could of been on Awaclus as #2. Aside from that... with the suggested narrative from others on Day 4 regarding "EFHW being skum if Fang flips skum".... why in all the hell would he push an EFHW lynch? Like, literally, skum would want to push ANY other lynch at that point so they could set up EFHW the next day because they would know that Fang is gonna flip skum.
@ EFHW - The above is why "not Joseph". As for why "not MCMC"... If I am picking between Joseph and MCMC I am going for MCMC. But my "reason" would be that skum at this point would want to create the most likely scenario for tomorrow to promote a mislynch. Right now that would be done by having two close competing wagons (both town) run out the end of the day so that the living player can be set up tomorrow. I also think that Skum!MCMC would pick both either Awaclus or myself as a counter wagon as opposed to Joseph at this point.
So, point #4 matches mcmc's play on Day 4, where he backed off of me as his choice for lynch. He is using that as evidence of his towniness. What do you think?
I see what you mean about his choice of Joseph not matching a scum strategy. It doesn't really match a town strategy, either, as you have just pointed out.
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@mcmc and Awaclus, what do you think of Datswan's not Joseph post?
It was long.
Hm, yes it was that. Does that mean you didn't read it? It really puts a huge question mark on any votes for Joseph.
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@mcmc and Awaclus, what do you think of Datswan's not Joseph post?
It was long.
Hm, yes it was that. Does that mean you didn't read it? It really puts a huge question mark on any votes for Joseph.
I read it when prompted, but there wasn't really anything interesting in it, which was to be expected since it was a long post.
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@mcmc and Awaclus, what do you think of Datswan's not Joseph post?
It was long.
Hm, yes it was that. Does that mean you didn't read it? It really puts a huge question mark on any votes for Joseph.
I read it when prompted, but there wasn't really anything interesting in it, which was to be expected since it was a long post.
There are multiple ways in which VCA contradicts the notion that Joseph is scum. How do you reconcile your vote with those contradictions?
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There are multiple ways in which VCA contradicts the notion that Joseph is scum. How do you reconcile your vote with those contradictions?
I would rather say that there is one way in which the VCA is weak evidence against the notion that Joseph is scum.
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We're coming up on deadline now. I think mcmc is our best bet for finding scum. I'm not sure what it means that he has stayed at L-1 so long. It's plurality lynch, in any case, so maybe that's why. There is no other 3 person wagon.
@Dylan: It would great if you placed a vote somewhere.
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We're coming up on deadline now. I think mcmc is our best bet for finding scum. I'm not sure what it means that he has stayed at L-1 so long. It's plurality lynch, in any case, so maybe that's why. There is no other 3 person wagon.
@Dylan: It would great if you placed a vote somewhere.
Part of why I haven't is cuz I'm leaning towards mcmc, but also didn't want to hammer before you got answers to some of your questions.
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We're coming up on deadline now. I think mcmc is our best bet for finding scum. I'm not sure what it means that he has stayed at L-1 so long. It's plurality lynch, in any case, so maybe that's why. There is no other 3 person wagon.
@Dylan: It would great if you placed a vote somewhere.
Makes sense.
Part of why I haven't is cuz I'm leaning towards mcmc, but also didn't want to hammer before you got answers to some of your questions.
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We're coming up on deadline now. I think mcmc is our best bet for finding scum. I'm not sure what it means that he has stayed at L-1 so long. It's plurality lynch, in any case, so maybe that's why. There is no other 3 person wagon.
@Dylan: It would great if you placed a vote somewhere.
Part of why I haven't is cuz I'm leaning towards mcmc, but also didn't want to hammer before you got answers to some of your questions.
Makes sense (quotefail)
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Intent to hammer
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since it is plurality (just as a back up), and MCMC said they would be back, I think it might be prudent to wait at least a little before hammering in case he returns.
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Hey y’all- it looks like things haven’t moved much. I still feel like Mcmc is the best choice, although if I’m wrong I’ll have a morning like Joseph and Dylan did at the begiinning of the Day where they were confused about why we’re still playing...
I won’t be around in the morning before deadline, but should be able to check back in again tonight in the event there is some new information.
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since it is plurality (just as a back up), and MCMC said they would be back, I think it might be prudent to wait at least a little before hammering in case he returns.
Thank you, I am back catching up as quickly as I can.
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Btw did a 12 mike hike up a mountain and along the Pacific Ocean and saw a wild wild today. Pretty awesome day.
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Btw did a 12 mike hike up a mountain and along the Pacific Ocean and saw a wild wild today. Pretty awesome day.
Wild wolf, like really up close, we ware hiking just a small ways behind some people on horseback so our scent was covered it was awesome.
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Btw did a 12 mike hike up a mountain and along the Pacific Ocean and saw a wild wild today. Pretty awesome day.
That's a lot of mikes.
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Which means either it's the right kill, or scum is too scared to expose themselves
Or the third option which you conveniently forgot to mention, which is that scum is already on the wagon.
Vote: Awaclus
Why Joseph?
Because he's scum.
... so is it Joseph or me?
It could be either, i doubt its me or awaclus and I think he feels that way too.
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Btw did a 12 mike hike up a mountain and along the Pacific Ocean and saw a wild wild today. Pretty awesome day.
Wild wolf, like really up close, we ware hiking just a small ways behind some people on horseback so our scent was covered it was awesome.
That’s super cool!
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While I understand we need to look at more than VCA, I do have some thing to point out about Joseph regarding my dislike of their wagon:
Day 1) At the end of D1, both Fang and Hyper got on Joseph's wagon bringing him to (5). That is 2/5 skum on the wagon, when they could of made the (5) wagon either Robz or EFHW instead. They stayed there all the way down to Joseph(3), and then after the wagon dissipates, they move elsewhere. That is the exact opposite of a Skum Narrative of D1 voting actions, and matches up pretty clearly with a Narrative of 2 skum trying to push any good mis-lynch wagon.
actually an early wagon in scum is a very smart tactic because then the go without scrutiny the rest of the game. Also with 2 scum on a wagon of 5 it’s extremely easy to jump off wagon before it actually goes through especially on day one. I agree it fits a town!joseph narrative but I don’t think it excludes a scum!joseph one.
Day 2) Since we know it is Skum!Fang and Skum!Hyper... think about the following from a Skum!Joseph POV. Towards the end of Day 2, Joseph switches their vote onto Hypercube to put them at L-1 when they just of easily could of voted for the WCD counter wagon. If Joseph is skum, then WCD is town... and we know Hyper was skum... so yeah that doesn't really make any damn sense.
could be bussing as which would make sense why hyper just kinda flailed at the end and gave up that he was scum when he didn’t need to and could have disrupted the next day.
Day 3) Joseph is on EFHW for the majority of the day until the end. He doesn't switch to Fang... which I actually read as towny because I assume skum would make sure to be on that bus.
How are you so sure scum doesn’t bus early day one when it’s save but would definitely bus on day 3 when it pins scum in a really tough spot. I feel like you are veiwing this as how you would play not how a scum!joseph/town!joseph would play. Personally I think bussing your teammate and making yourself the last scum needing to make it to endgame is not worth the towncred but I believe you feel differently.
Day 4) Joseph got on EFHW as #3, when they could of been on Awaclus as #2. Aside from that... with the suggested narrative from others on Day 4 regarding "EFHW being skum if Fang flips skum".... why in all the hell would he push an EFHW lynch? Like, literally, skum would want to push ANY other lynch at that point so they could set up EFHW the next day because they would know that Fang is gonna flip skum.
This is where I think it is important to see that I who was the primary pusher of the efhw wagon had voiced concern that efhw was not scum. That’s not setting up efhw for a futur lynch that’s creating a town player who withstood a game long tunnel and was going to be very difficult to lynch if she survived. I think scum!joseph needed to inch efhw yesterday so I would look bad for ever pushing efhw at all and he could move toward an late game awaclus push for “he’s being awaclus” reasons.
So yeah, I don't like our chances with Joseph.
@ EFHW - The above is why "not Joseph". As for why "not MCMC"... If I am picking between Joseph and MCMC I am going for MCMC. But my "reason" would be that skum at this point would want to create the most likely scenario for tomorrow to promote a mislynch. Right now that would be done by having two close competing wagons (both town) run out the end of the day so that the living player can be set up tomorrow. I also think that Skum!MCMC would pick both either Awaclus or myself as a counter wagon as opposed to Joseph at this point.
Sorry for poor formatting I was in a rush on mobile and wanted to get my thoughts out. Underlined text is my responses. This is my why Joseph.
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Hey y’all- it looks like things haven’t moved much. I still feel like Mcmc is the best choice, although if I’m wrong I’ll have a morning like Joseph and Dylan did at the begiinning of the Day where they were confused about why we’re still playing...
I won’t be around in the morning before deadline, but should be able to check back in again tonight in the event there is some new information.
Wcd can you explain why you find me scummy, it feels like you are just going with the flow. I agree I have been the expected lynch much because my low interactions with anyone but efhw. You may not know this but you can look at another game I believe okervill (efhw mentioned it earlier) I frequently have a strong scum read on town!efhw. It’s a problem one that I wanted to remedy and had to look towards how others were acting. As the wagon began turning towards her you agreed with me that it was a troublingly accepted thing that efhw would be the lynch. We both voiced concerns and hours later she received 3 votes lynching her. That’s troubling
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Swan I understand a lot of what you are saying from your perspective and simply disagree with it. Opposite to efhw I do tend to push your lynch when I am scum often because I can genuinely disagree with you. I am finally realizing I think we have different play styles and you use your own to establish reads (not a bad thing to do just one that’s polarizing). This is not a scum!mcmc game.
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frick, I have the same feeling about mcmc now that he had about EFHW having their least scummy day and then getting lynched. I didn't really think mcmc was scummy earlier, but I've thought his contributions today have actually been towny. I retract my intent to hammer for the moment...
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To be clear, I thought he was likely to be scum today from VCA, but to say that not a single scum bused this game is kind of a stretch when you think about it, and his points on the early day double bus could make sense, especially if Joseph coached the two new scum to do that early during N0.
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Hey y’all- it looks like things haven’t moved much. I still feel like Mcmc is the best choice, although if I’m wrong I’ll have a morning like Joseph and Dylan did at the begiinning of the Day where they were confused about why we’re still playing...
I won’t be around in the morning before deadline, but should be able to check back in again tonight in the event there is some new information.
Wcd can you explain why you find me scummy, it feels like you are just going with the flow. I agree I have been the expected lynch much because my low interactions with anyone but efhw. You may not know this but you can look at another game I believe okervill (efhw mentioned it earlier) I frequently have a strong scum read on town!efhw. It’s a problem one that I wanted to remedy and had to look towards how others were acting. As the wagon began turning towards her you agreed with me that it was a troublingly accepted thing that efhw would be the lynch. We both voiced concerns and hours later she received 3 votes lynching her. That’s troubling
I can’t say that I find you scummy, more that the VCA kept clearing everyone else. But I can also say that I’ve never played this late into a game so I don’t really know moves scum make to clear themselves later by bussing early. I didn’t find your defenses yesterday terribly compelling, but the stuff in the last couple of hours is more interesting.
I also stopped reading EFHW as scum yesterday but hadn’t thought much about folks on her as scum. I can see that as more possible now.
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Mcmc- I appreciate you pushing me. I feel like I learn a lot when I’m talking with you, so thanks! I also realize, that similar to Fang, I find you charming so it’s easy for me to agree with you when I’m in your head space. When I walk away (or in this case, go for ice cream) I remember that Joseph didn’t have to be on the hyper wagon and I can’t see why he’d want one of his buddies putted so early when I was a likely and viable lynch. I can also see some strategic reason why scum!mc would move away from EFHW when her wagon gained speed without proposing and alternative.
I’m with my extended fam this weekend so time is at a premium. If you get lynched, and then IC, I’ll be the first to apologize.
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Wcd o think you should take into account the fact that in a game this large it’s very beneficial for scum to vote for their partner early. The most common tool for lynching players late game is vote wagon analysis and vca. Town only cares about voting for their reads. If you look at my play I have pushed and voted for me reads. Joseph has conveniently voted for scum when it benefitted and town when it benefitted him.
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Wcd o think you should take into account the fact that in a game this large it’s very beneficial for scum to vote for their partner early. The most common tool for lynching players late game is vote wagon analysis and vca. Town only cares about voting for their reads. If you look at my play I have pushed and voted for me reads. Joseph has conveniently voted for scum when it benefitted and town when it benefitted him.
It’s not about just when Joseph voted for others. It’s also the known skum others and when they voted for Joseph. Bussing early could be beneficial for skum - but You are saying because of the size of the game it makes it more likely for skum to pick skum wagons over town wagons early on? I think it is the opposite bc or plausible deniability.
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I think I got lynched because there was no movement towards anyone else and because if I was town I would be an active IC for a day. Voting me was less scummy than it would usually be.
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Fang and hyper were both new scum. They might not have realized the value in "suspecting" their partners early on. They didn't bus each other at all, so it seems quite plausible that they didn't bus the 3rd scum, either.
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Fang and hyper were both new scum. They might not have realized the value in "suspecting" their partners early on. They didn't bus each other at all, so it seems quite plausible that they didn't bus the 3rd scum, either.
Agreed.
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Hmmm....it’s morning and I’m still feeling pretty good about Mcmc. And EFHW often seems to be on point and hasn’t wavered, and has significantly less to gain by persuading me, so I’m gonna stay where I’m at.
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The deadline passed, so it's a done deal. The time after deadline is called twilight.
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If mcmc is scum, do I get released unharmed from the guillotine? Wishful thinking. They'd have to kill me to make room for mcmc. I don't want to go. Townpoints to anyone who gets the reference.
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The deadline passed, so it's a done deal. The time after deadline is called twilight.
Ah, thank you. The plurality thing has been messing with the way I understand the game. In a regular game this would have been a no lynch? Or there would have just been more pressure to decide?
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Great game everyone, props to efhw, swan, and wcd for not wavering with some pretty hard work. 14 players with a delayed lynch was rough. Especially once I was alone and had to deal with a new ic every day. Also darn you Joseph and awaclus for lynching fang before I could actually get on to buss him. At least I get to keep the fact that I have never bussed my parter as scum before, my plan absolutelynwas to do so this game, I just needed time to organically come down from my scum read on efhw.
No idea about mvp all of town really did a fantastic job.
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Hooray!!!
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This is the first time that I felt like I actually got to play! And it was fun!! Now I get why you all like playing with each other.
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And I’ll play bourbon blitz with you whenever you like, Mcmc!
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Thanks for relieving the suspense, mcmc. I had to sternly remind myself of how towny scum!you can sound to stay on track.
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And I’ll play bourbon blitz with you whenever you like, Mcmc!
I'm absolutely up for bourbon blitz! On a side not you have a playstyle very similar to eevee (it's a good thing) I keep thinking I have buddied you sufficiently and you are going to town read me and then all the sudden you betray me and realize I am scum anyway!
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Someone has told me this about eevee before so I hope it get to play with them one day! I like the. Immunity building parts of the game. Making new friends! I love friends! :)
That’s the thing about being as open as I am to folks...I find people charming but I’m usually aware enough (in my life at least) to recognize when I’m under the charm of endearment once I have a minute to get some perspective. Both you and Fang have that effect on me, and others too, I imagine. I’d have got Lalight (also charming) in my last NM game if I’d have had the chance to get back to the game before they lynched me. (I shake my fist at you Chairs!) When I was building my house we met with a builder who charmed me, but the next day the spell was gone. Whew! He turned out to be a shyster and our builder was less charming, but awesome.
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For fun since LL hasn't been here yet, Vote: mcmc for hammer :P
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Good game everyone! That was a fun one to come back for.
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Hey good job everyone!
McMc too - you were starting to convince me :P
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Hey good job everyone!
McMc too - you were starting to convince me :P
Yeah same, only thing was the wagon on him was super towny from my perspective, so I felt better about it than joining him and Awaclus on Joseph (if I had actually dropped a vote before I dropped off to sleep...)
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I thought it was funny that half of town’s game plan today was “lynch awaclus and McMc on these last days FTW”. Glad the rest of you guessed correctly :P
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I’m not sure it happens often that there is one person with no scum votes on them for the whole game. A pretty simple choice in that regard. If he wasn’t persuasive, it was easy. But he’s got skilz! So, I’ve now played twice with Mcmc and he’s been scum both times. I’ve never known a town Mc!
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Vote count 5.final
mcmcsalot (3): EFHW, WestCoastDidds, Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): Awaclus, mcmcsalot
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
Not voting (1): Dylan32
With 7 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
EFHW was lynched! She was Mafia Goon, a Vanilla Townie!
mcmcsalot was put on the guillotine. He was Vanilla Townie, a Mafia Goon.
Mafia wins!
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speccy (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/DwtmpxqM7KQr7)
Scum QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/CK3Wf5iSDCL)
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Well done everyone, day 5 made for good reading.
WCD, you seemed to be fairly central to each scum lynch.
Thanks everyone for playing, thanks LaLight for modding and for coming up with the town-scum flavour.
LaLight, did you hope there'd be more use of the flavour confusion thing?
I think Joseph did something day 1 (#405) when he said he thought EFHW was town, but in such a way that meant he could later say 'of course I meant scum'. @Joseph, was that intentional?
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I'm sure glad that even though scum aligned vanilla townies lynched so many town aligned mafia goons, the scum aligned Town Cops and Town Doctors ended up nightkilling all of the scum-aligned towns. Clearly Moat-Aligned people outplayed everyone.
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Thanks for the game, LaLight! Despite what others might think I still maintain that I used my PR appropriately and that, in general, my reads were very good (initial reads on EFHW) being notable exceptions.
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Well done everyone, day 5 made for good reading.
WCD, you seemed to be fairly central to each scum lynch.
Thanks, Fang!!
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Was following along intermittently; I like the setup a lot. I might run it on my home site in the future.
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Congratulations town, well played! I think we got a bit too confident; I really didn't expect that fang and I could go down so quickly together, leaving poor mcmc with an impossible situation.
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Agreed, Hyper. I think if Joseph or I had been lynched on D2 instead of you, it would have been an entirely different scenario. I'm still kind of stunned that my sense of things was accurate. I had a pretty low confidence level...
I just deleted all of my notes of off my desk stop. We started playing in October! What a good time.
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Who's MVP?
My money is on WCD.
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As it stands I am taking the current pressure on me as confirmation that chairs is a correct lynch today.
PPS, this was very accurate.
Fang has done a lot of agreeing with me. It's gratifying, but not great scum partner play. I was thinking of it more along the lines of either buddying or recognition of my fundamental good sense :).
EFHW, it was recognition of your fundamental good sense.
Mcmcsalot, I'm impressed you got day 5 to run as close as you did once folk started turning on you. By the way, my 2-year-old daughter says 'mcmc' a lot, for the noise a duck makes.
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Who's MVP?
My money is on WCD.
Yes. WestCoastDidds is MVP!
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Aw, thanks!
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Def agree with the WCD MVP call... they were an invaluable source of pushing content.
Good job WCD!