Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: silvern on August 07, 2018, 04:10:23 pm
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Suppose you have a hand comprised of 5 action cards. Your deck and discard are empty, and you have no tokens or stuff on mats, etc. (The board likewise has no tokens on any of the supply piles.) It is a solo game.
Theoretically, what is the highest amount of coin you can achieve from such a hand (in a single turn)?
Off the top of my head I can think of a solution that nets $86--KC-KC-Hero-Hero-Trusty Steed, where Steed is used for coins and draw, and hero is used 5x for platinum and once for fortune.
A less exotic one netting a mere $54 --KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Coppersmith
(I assume I'm missing a lot with gainers and villa, etc. See what you can come up with!)
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I imagine the best result would involve KC-KC-KC-Artisan-Artisan gaining some sweet actions, then almsing a Villa with the pathfinding token and setting up a chain. You could probably go unbounded with this involving a loop too.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
How do you get Procession and Lurker from play back into your hand?
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
no treasures!
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
no treasures!
Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
no treasures!
Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.
How do you keep playing the Procession repeatedly? It’s still in play so you can’t gain it back with Lurker.
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
no treasures!
Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.
How do you keep playing the Procession repeatedly? It’s still in play so you can’t gain it back with Lurker.
And the Lurker is also still in play and the Champion is in your discard pile so you can't play any of those either.
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Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.
play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
How do you get Procession and Lurker from play back into your hand?
I believe "setup" here means 'this is what you do on the previous turns'.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
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But it requires KC to cost $5, and the Ferry token can't be on it as per the OP.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.
It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.
It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.
No, the Boons that give money you keep until the end of turn, so you can't receive them more than twice in the same turn.
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KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
How's this?
It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.
It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.
No, the Boons that give money you keep until the end of turn, so you can't receive them more than twice in the same turn.
Well, that's disappointing.
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You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / “arbitrarily large” amount of coin.
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You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / “arbitrarily large” amount of coin.
Hmm, does this work for the 1-turn supply empty as well? The Pixie solution relies on using Earth and Mountain gifts to gain basically everything; but since it doesn't go infinite with coin, it could fail on an arbitrarily large supply (like if a future expansion just said "all games now have an extra supply pile of cards costing $100). But if you can actually get infinite coins with Mining Village instead; then the solution works on all supplies.
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Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
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Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
This works
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Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.
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Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.
Both Overlords trashed themselves, but not the KC’s. You need to Ferry KC and play Overlord-as-KC for everything except the first one for this to work I think? With a few extra steps to make it messier.
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Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.
The Overlords aren't in play (Ov1 is in your hand and Ov2 is the only card in your discard pile) and you don't need the KCs for the loop beyond the first time.
play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as MV (draw Ov2, trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
Both Overlords trashed themselves, but not the KC’s. You need to Ferry KC and play Overlord-as-KC for everything except the first one for this to work I think? With a few extra steps to make it messier.
It already works.
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I still fail to see how Ov1 ends in draw pile after "play Ov1 as KC" and before "play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)". It would seem to me that Ov1 is in play after being played as KC.
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I still fail to see how Ov1 ends in draw pile after "play Ov1 as KC" and before "play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)". It would seem to me that Ov1 is in play after being played as KC.
Ov1 ends in discard pile after "play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)" and "play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)". Playing it as KC doesn't put it back into play from the discard pile.
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You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / “arbitrarily large” amount of coin.
Hmm, does this work for the 1-turn supply empty as well? The Pixie solution relies on using Earth and Mountain gifts to gain basically everything; but since it doesn't go infinite with coin, it could fail on an arbitrarily large supply (like if a future expansion just said "all games now have an extra supply pile of cards costing $100). But if you can actually get infinite coins with Mining Village instead; then the solution works on all supplies.
Yes, Mining Village and Death Cart were used for loops before Pixie was a thing; the original 1-turn solution used Death Cart, in fact, and only relies on Nocturne for the heirlooms (in Black Market) to ramp up fast enough. Pixie as both self-trasher and heirloom-provider is more efficient and ultimately allowed for a two-event-no-black-market solution, though.