Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Topic started by: cactus on February 17, 2017, 01:07:50 pm
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Hi all. I've been AWL for a while due to work / family commitments. My best mate who is the main person I play Dominion online with had a child recently so he hasn't had much time to play. The work commitments have been my own. :-\
So question: how overall is everyone feeling about the new version?
I was pretty excited for the new version before it came out. I really couldn't stand the Goko / MF version of Dominion. MF eventually became playable but five years (?) after it was first released it still had a bunch of the problems it had on day one and I was never going to learn to love it.
My first experience of the shuffle IT version was that while it fixed a few outstanding problems with the MF version it was pretty clunky. As I don't really have time to play at the moment I was hoping people could give me a idea of how things have been going in the six weeks since release. Is the shuffle IT version improving? Are we still hopeful that it will go on to become the version of Dominion that Dominion deserves?
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It has been improving. Not super fast, but way faster than MF was.
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http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=604.0
Patch notes.
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It's still pretty clunky. The implementation of the mats, in-play durations, Attack-Durations, Journey Token, -1 Card/Coin and trash in MF is still a lot better than what Shuffle iT has so far. There's still a lot of awkward clicking underneath the log for ordering effects and otherwise optional things.
They did fix the Name-A-Card issue, so everything is *playable* right now, but a lot of the above really gets in the way of the gameplay -- it's hard to remember if there are any Wine Merchants on the tavern mat unless you're used to checking, and you have to remember things like Haunted Woods, etc since there is no visual reminder if you did or did not block the attack.
Still waiting on Inheritance (and Stash).
All that said, it does not make my computer's fan go like crazy like MF's did. For that and that alone this is a much better implementation already. (also, having Empires and the 2nd Editions at launch is great, but this seems like a pretty low bar considering how old Empires is)
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It's still pretty clunky. The implementation of the mats, in-play durations, Attack-Durations, Journey Token, -1 Card/Coin and trash in MF is still a lot better than what Shuffle iT has so far. There's still a lot of awkward clicking underneath the log for ordering effects and otherwise optional things.
They did fix the Name-A-Card issue, so everything is *playable* right now, but a lot of the above really gets in the way of the gameplay -- it's hard to remember if there are any Wine Merchants on the tavern mat unless you're used to checking, and you have to remember things like Haunted Woods, etc since there is no visual reminder if you did or did not block the attack.
Still waiting on Inheritance (and Stash).
All that said, it does not make my computer's fan go like crazy like MF's did. For that and that alone this is a much better implementation already. (also, having Empires and the 2nd Editions at launch is great, but this seems like a pretty low bar considering how old Empires is)
Pretty good summary of the pros/cons right now as I see it.
The one thing I would add is that there is still no ranking system. For those of us who like that sort of thing, that's a big absence.
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The one thing I would add is that there is still no ranking system. For those of us who like that sort of thing, that's a big absence.
Yeah that's the biggest bummer for me right now too. I expected that would be implemented by now. I didn't play much on MF and now I have no clue whether I'm any good at Dominion or not.
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You are as good as you are
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It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.
What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.
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I like the new version a lot (haven't had any problems with slowness). It could use to be a little more noob friendly, but as far as I'm concerned the only major thing lacking is Inheritance.
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but as far as I'm concerned the only major thing lacking is Inheritance.
and leaderboard
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It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.
What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.
I have no idea why you're experiencing this. I've run this on everything from budget computers to top of the line ones, even old netbooks with no RAM, and have had none of these issues on any of them. I think the slowness problem is on your end.
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It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.
What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.
Well, the important thing here is Donald X and Rio Grande Games weren't happy with MF, citing issues of hassles and trust that they simply did not want to deal with anymore (or something to that sort... they understandably didn't leave a lot of details). When the people who have control over the product aren't content, that should be the end of that.
However, from a user perspective, Shuffle iT is also a way to get an offline version vs. AI, and unlike MF who took 5 years to what I'm told wasn't very far, this dev has done more in less time.
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However, from a user perspective, Shuffle iT is also a way to get an offline version vs. AI
Well, maybe. I mean it's certainly on their list, but I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch. Making an offline version on par with what MF had (with campaigns, several good AIs, etc.) could conceivably be much more work than everything they've done so far put together. So unless they actually hire other people, I'm honestly not expecting an offline version this year.
To be clear, I have no insider info. I'm just a pessimist when it comes to Shuffle iT.
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However, from a user perspective, Shuffle iT is also a way to get an offline version vs. AI
Well, maybe. I mean it's certainly on their list, but I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch. Making an offline version on par with what MF had (with campaigns, several good AIs, etc.) could conceivably be much more work than everything they've done so far put together. So unless they actually hire other people, I'm honestly not expecting an offline version this year.
To be clear, I have no insider info. I'm just a pessimist when it comes to Shuffle iT.
I don't doubt that MF's hearts are in the right place, but I too feel like they've got a lot to take on for a mere 2-person team. Alas, I don't know if they can hire more people, as some have said, having anything more than a 2-person dev. team goes up exponentially.
As for MF's version, I do recall they had AI opponents and campaigns, but was it ever available OFF line? I still recall the complaints that folks downloaded the game onto their iPads, got onto a plane, and then were disappointed to find out that they did need a constant internet connection to play the game.
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Neither Goko nor MF ever had an offline version available. That product has not yet existed in any official form.
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Not sure when it was deployed but for some reason I LOVE the little snippets that play when you win or lose a match. And this is coming from someone who has muted all music / sound effects since day 1. I don't know what it is, I just crack up every time they come on.
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Not sure when it was deployed but for some reason I LOVE the little snippets that play when you win or lose a match. And this is coming from someone who has muted all music / sound effects since day 1. I don't know what it is, I just crack up every time they come on.
I'm indifferent to it; though I don't particularly like it when I'm multi-resigning against the bot to get a fun Kingdom.
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For me it is fast, like way faster than Goko/MF ever was (I always had lag there). Never had crashes, never had disconnects. Interface is smooth and easy. Things* just work.
*There are some bugs with certain cards, and the outstanding Inheritance and Stash implementation.
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Not sure when it was deployed but for some reason I LOVE the little snippets that play when you win or lose a match. And this is coming from someone who has muted all music / sound effects since day 1. I don't know what it is, I just crack up every time they come on.
Meh. They're okay. I decided to make my own:
https://soundcloud.com/werothegreat/victory
https://soundcloud.com/werothegreat/defeatsound
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It's decently close to isotropic quality already. Mats are an issue. Getting matched up for a game super fast is nice, and it seems like I'm getting worthy opponents more or less. On Goko I had to wait longer to get an opponent whose skill level never seemed to be correlated with mine in the slightest.
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It's decently close to isotropic quality already. Mats are an issue. Getting matched up for a game super fast is nice, and it seems like I'm getting worthy opponents more or less. On Goko I had to wait longer to get an opponent whose skill level never seemed to be correlated with mine in the slightest.
What's wrong with mats?
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It's decently close to isotropic quality already. Mats are an issue. Getting matched up for a game super fast is nice, and it seems like I'm getting worthy opponents more or less. On Goko I had to wait longer to get an opponent whose skill level never seemed to be correlated with mine in the slightest.
What's wrong with mats?
Mouseover is not a great way to view them. It was a freudian slip though, they share an observation method with Durations, and Durations are the greater issue.
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It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.
What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.
I couldn't disagree more. MF was unplayable on my old notebook with strange crashes happening. The new client runs super smooth in my browser. My leg isn't burning any more if I play with my notebook on my legs because my CPU is not at 100% (while playing a stupid card game) at all time any more. The new main features like reconnect and undo are just great compared to MF.
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(while playing a stupid card game)
Why would you also play a stupid card game while you're playing Dominion?
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It's still slow as hell, to the point that it's almost unusable. Switching browsers doesn't help. My computer isn't lightning-fast by any means - it's a budget laptop - but it can run old RTS games somewhat smoothly, so I'd figure an in-browser card game should work just fine as well, but it just doesn't. It really destroyed my enjoyment of online Dominion. I still really want MF back.
What annoys me the most is that everyone clapped and cheered when MF lost the rights to Dominion Online, but now we ended up with something that's way worse. Go figure.
I couldn't disagree more. MF was unplayable on my old notebook with strange crashes happening. The new client runs super smooth in my browser. My leg isn't burning any more if I play with my notebook on my legs because my CPU is not at 100% (while playing a stupid card game) at all time any more. The new main features like reconnect and undo are just great compared to MF.
It's not about disagreeing, I'd say. Apparently, both MF and ShIT have (had) some issues running smoothly on various PCs. I never had a lot of issues with MF.
I guess I'm just unlucky or something.
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Ironically enough, for the first time last night I experienced some hanging/non responsiveness in games. Seemed like a network issue; if I refreshed the browser, it would automatically put me back in the game where I was before. Not sure if the network problems were on my end or on the server's.
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Ironically enough, for the first time last night I experienced some hanging/non responsiveness in games. Seemed like a network issue; if I refreshed the browser, it would automatically put me back in the game where I was before. Not sure if the network problems were on my end or on the server's.
I've also had problems the last 2 days. Sometimes it's fixed by refreshing, but sometimes it keeps trying to reconnect, or it successfully reconnects but the game is still stuck. I even had one game where I requested undo (1 step), my opponent granted it, but the game got stuck for me, and when I refreshed the page, the game had reverted to a several turns earlier state, and when my opponent refreshed, it also did that for him.
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It's not about disagreeing, I'd say. Apparently, both MF and ShIT have (had) some issues running smoothly on various PCs. I never had a lot of issues with MF.
I guess I'm just unlucky or something.
I think that's about right. Almost all of the speed, networking, and reconnect problems of MF have been fixed for me. However, one of my friends has had a noticeably worse experience on SiT versus MF. That friend and I both were using Chrome on a Mac playing together and we couldn't figure out why things just weren't working for him. He didn't want to bother with the forum and asking for help. He's a busy guy and will try again in a month or two to see if they got the kinks worked out. No real loss to him.
Mobile devices are generally worse because of the lack of an app.
Additionally, the UIX is still arguably worse on SiT. That is currently my opinion, but it depends on who you ask.
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I would rate online Dominion implementations like that:
1. Goko
Unquestionable leader within board games world: lobby of the greatest convenience, built-in dress-your-own-knight simulator, introduction of The Dance.
2. Making Fun
The dance goes on: chrystal ball, animations, extremely practical way of overpaying and spending coin tokens, laptop warms you up in the winter.
Not a lot of people know about it, but there was a hidden easter egg implemented: if you slided your opponent's stats bar 100 times during their turn you received a coin token.
3. Isotropic
Pretty crappy one: slow, childish UI, no animations whatsoever. The only good thing in this one was art: way better than original cards.
4. Shuffle iT
AN ABOMINATION. Everything is wrong about this one.
Now everyone can join my games and laugh at me when I lose, they can also replay my old games and laugh again.
I can't win vs good players now because if they misclick they ask me to undo it, like what the hell..
With that many expansions released it's goddamn impossible to see your favorite cards often. Speaking of which, no Stash!
Also, Russian version. Now who the hell gonna need that, jeez..
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I'm seriously having trouble guessing whether that was sarcastic.
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I'm seriously having trouble guessing whether that was sarcastic.
you are?
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I'm seriously having trouble guessing whether that was sarcastic.
And I'm wondering if this is sarcasm.
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I'm seriously having trouble guessing whether that was sarcastic.
And I'm wondering if this is sarcasm.
http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=168
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It's okay. The initial announcement sounded ridiculously ambitious for 2 people, and I never expected them to hit all those buttons. I was expecting a more complete product.
There are definite UI issues in the new player experience. If you fiddle with the settings, you can get the UI into a state you like, but the defaults don't feel very good. (This may have changed recently.)
Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.
The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version. It had nothing to do with Isotropic.
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I'm still not finding much chance to play but there is one thing I've noticed where SiT is a big improvement over MF: battery drain. I guess this is similar to the overheating issue but I was blown away by how quickly MF Dominion would drain the battery of my laptop or iPad when I played. And the crazy thing was this after they had supposedly rebuilt the back end.
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I'm still not finding much chance to play but there is one thing I've noticed where SiT is a big improvement over MF: battery drain. I guess this is similar to the overheating issue but I was blown away by how quickly MF Dominion would drain the battery of my laptop or iPad when I played. And the crazy thing was this after they had supposedly rebuilt the back end.
Well the back end would have next to nothing to do with how fast it drained your battery. It's all about the client.
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I'm still not finding much chance to play but there is one thing I've noticed where SiT is a big improvement over MF: battery drain. I guess this is similar to the overheating issue but I was blown away by how quickly MF Dominion would drain the battery of my laptop or iPad when I played. And the crazy thing was this after they had supposedly rebuilt the back end.
Well the back end would have next to nothing to do with how fast it drained your battery. It's all about the client.
Oh. OK. I guess the what I was trying to say was they spent a year apparently redesigning it without fixing the main things that were wrong with it.
Sometimes I feel like the only nurse in the middle of a forum full of computer programmers.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Clearly "familiar cards" is at least an attempt to help new players. I think a good analogy to the situation is this: Michael Jordan is considered the greatest ever to play basketball, but as an owner/GM he's been absolutely terrible at building a good team. I've read several "Stef and Philip are great players who really love Dominion... so they'll definitely make a great product" posts -- this is not necessarily true. I'm not saying that they don't want to help new players. Whether they will adequately address the needs of newer players is still to be determined.
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The "Pretend to Think" thing was short for "Pretend to think about whether to reveal the card or not". It certainly wasn't intended as condescending, and I actually struggle to see why you'd see it as condescending in the first place.
The text went from "Done Pretending" to "Pretend to Think" to "Don't Reveal", if I remember correctly.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.
The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version. It had nothing to do with Isotropic.
Is there a citation for this?
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.
The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version. It had nothing to do with Isotropic.
Is there a citation for this?
isotropic was a fan-made version. Like other fan-made versions, we gave permission for it to be up until we had an official version, and no longer.
We asked Doug Z. if he wanted the job of making the official version; he didn't.
isotropic itself was never in the running to be the official version; it did not have the necessary pretty/friendly interface. Yes ShuffleiT currently does not have that interface either.
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However, the ShuffleIt interface at least looks like you are playing a card game. Isotropic didn't. Really, I don't have much trouble with playing on ShuffleIt, and most of the trouble I have stems from needing to click in the log area. There is improvement to be done, but I find the implementation playable.
Another issue, however, is that Dominion is by nature a complex game that can be intimidating for newcomers. If you sit someone who has never played before with a game including durations, victory tokens, the tavern mat and Adventures tokens (+1 action, etc.) I'm willing to bet that their reaction would be that the game to unfriendly to beginners too.
It comes back to the fact that, yes, there are improvements needed, but at least part of the battle is for each player to learn the interface and the cards.
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Another issue, however, is that Dominion is by nature a complex game that can be intimidating for newcomers. If you sit someone who has never played before with a game including durations, victory tokens, the tavern mat and Adventures tokens (+1 action, etc.) I'm willing to bet that their reaction would be that the game to unfriendly to beginners too.
Believe it or not, I did that just the other day. I didn't realize that two of the players in the game had never played before. I did a full randomization on my app. The game was actually pretty horrible. It lasted an hour and a half and the winner only had 8 points. But... the new players said they'd be open to playing again knowing that the game will likely never be that awful again. They're experienced gamers, so they understood the mechanics well enough on first look.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Ironic considering that was one reason to get away from Isotropic.
The reason to get away from Isotropic was that someone wanted to make an official version. It had nothing to do with Isotropic.
Is there a citation for this?
isotropic was a fan-made version. Like other fan-made versions, we gave permission for it to be up until we had an official version, and no longer.
We asked Doug Z. if we wanted the job of making the official version; he didn't.
isotropic itself was never in the running to be the official version; it did not have the necessary pretty/friendly interface. Yes ShuffleiT currently does not have that interface either.
Thanks for the reply! I couldn't remember if it was someone from the Dom. team who made a comment about the interface, or just 'some other user'
However, the ShuffleIt interface at least looks like you are playing a card game. Isotropic didn't. Really, I don't have much trouble with playing on ShuffleIt, and most of the trouble I have stems from needing to click in the log area. There is improvement to be done, but I find the implementation playable.
Another issue, however, is that Dominion is by nature a complex game that can be intimidating for newcomers. If you sit someone who has never played before with a game including durations, victory tokens, the tavern mat and Adventures tokens (+1 action, etc.) I'm willing to bet that their reaction would be that the game to unfriendly to beginners too.
It comes back to the fact that, yes, there are improvements needed, but at least part of the battle is for each player to learn the interface and the cards.
It's all a tradeoff... not having actual cards does make the game run more smoothly, has a smaller footprint not having to store the card art, and allows you to fit more cards on the screen at once. Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.
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Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.
Personally I'm a fan of the fully text-based version of Dominion:
You are sitting at a table. In front of you are piles of cards, consisting of Village, Smithy, Militia, Moat, Festival, Witch, Cellar, Laboratory, Bureaucrat, Gardens, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, and Curse.
> Look at hand
Your hand consists of Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Estate.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $1 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $2 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $3 to spend.
> Buy Silver
You buy and gain a Silver. You have $0 to spend.
> End Turn
You discard your hand and cards in play. You draw 5 new cards. It is your opponent's turn.
...
...
...
...
Your opponent has played 5 Coppers and purchased a Witch. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
>
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Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.
Personally I'm a fan of the fully text-based version of Dominion:
You are sitting at a table. In front of you are piles of cards, consisting of Village, Smithy, Militia, Moat, Festival, Witch, Cellar, Laboratory, Bureaucrat, Gardens, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, and Curse.
> Look at hand
Your hand consists of Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Estate.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $1 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $2 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $3 to spend.
> Buy Silver
You buy and gain a Silver. You have $0 to spend.
> End Turn
You discard your hand and cards in play. You draw 5 new cards. It is your opponent's turn.
...
...
...
...
Your opponent has played 5 Coppers and purchased a Witch. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
>
> xyzzy
You gain a Scout.
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Probably like a command line interface vs. GUI deal... the former can be more suitable to users, but only if they reach that level of knowledge and proficiency.
Personally I'm a fan of the fully text-based version of Dominion:
You are sitting at a table. In front of you are piles of cards, consisting of Village, Smithy, Militia, Moat, Festival, Witch, Cellar, Laboratory, Bureaucrat, Gardens, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, and Curse.
> Look at hand
Your hand consists of Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Estate.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $1 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $2 to spend.
> Play Copper
You place a Copper on the table. You have $3 to spend.
> Buy Silver
You buy and gain a Silver. You have $0 to spend.
> End Turn
You discard your hand and cards in play. You draw 5 new cards. It is your opponent's turn.
...
...
...
...
Your opponent has played 5 Coppers and purchased a Witch. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
>
I prefer this version too. When I play IRL Dominion, we mostly just ask what the player did on his turn to summarize. I make quite good use of the game log with Androminion and Race For The Galaxy. Unfortunately, it seems folks who are new to card games prefer GUIs and nearly all graphics :( Dominion on BSW.com didn't have logs, which I wasn't a fan of.
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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Clearly "familiar cards" is at least an attempt to help new players.... I won't say that they don't want to help new players (hey, they told us to "pretend to think" when we can't reveal a card to block the +1 from Gladiator -- no, that's not condescending at all ::)).
The "Pretend to Think" thing was short for "Pretend to think about whether to reveal the card or not". It certainly wasn't intended as condescending, and I actually struggle to see why you'd see it as condescending in the first place.
The text went from "Done Pretending" to "Pretend to Think" to "Don't Reveal", if I remember correctly.
I certainly wouldn't think they intended to be condescending. Why I find it off-putting is this: the click-box says "DON'T REVEAL" whether one has the card to block the extra +$1 from Gladiator or not. If one has the card to block, the info box (under Actions/Buys/Coins) says "YOU MAY REVEAL A(N)...". If one doesn't have the card to block it says "PRETEND TO THINK". This is given as an imperative, not a suggestion, the grammar implying "you must/should pretend to think" (as opposed to "YOU MAY PRETEND TO THINK", which would've been a much better wording, consistent with the wording they use just about everywhere else IIRC). Now since there's no actual card play decision to make here -- one does not have the card to block and clicking on DON'T REVEAL is the only choice -- it begs the question "Why do I have to pretend to think?". If I'm playing a bot, again as a newer player who can't read the developers' minds, it begs questions like "Will the bot play differently if I don't? How long should I think anyways?". After finally figuring out what they are really telling you is certain situations might arise in a game against human players where you might want to pretend to be deciding whether to not reveal a card you have and give them the extra $1 to put doubt in their mind whether you actually have that card in hand but are just choosing not to reveal it for strategic reasons, but in this specific situation that might not be the case at all and there's no reason to waste time pretending to think, and if you're playing a bot/bots there's never any reason to waste time pretending to think even though it specifically says "PRETEND TO THINK", well do I really need to say anymore about why I think that's upsetting? And if one was to say they assumed you'd figure out the context of their learned wise imperative suggestion, can't that logically appear to be condescending?
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The thing about "pretend to think" is you never actually have to go slower or anything for it to work. By just pausing and asking for your input, it's avoiding revealing the contents of your hand.
Maybe "Can You Reveal?" and "Nope" would have been better, but eh.
I just wish "Pretend to think" wouldn't show up in situations where only one player has bought that card. Or at the very least it wouldn't show up when only one copy of that card has left the Supply.
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I actually wonder why Gladiator is the only case where you can pretend to think. With stuff like Fool's Gold, it's still revealing the contents of your hand.
Not that it matters a lot either way.
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I actually wonder why Gladiator is the only case where you can pretend to think. With stuff like Fool's Gold, it's still revealing the contents of your hand.
Related: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=442
Stef responds:
The value of having "done pretending" on gladiator is a bit higher then having it on moat, because with gladiator the person playing it actually has a choice, and could "peek" for multiple cards or key cards to determine turn bootstrapping (like peeking for the only village on the board)
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Personally I don't think it's worth having it on Gladiator either, it's not worth the confusion.