Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: JW on January 09, 2017, 11:00:01 am
-
I buy Villa with at least 2 coins unspent. Can I discard my Wine Merchants from my tavern mat because I am returning to the action phase?
-
No. Wine Merchants are discarded at the end of your Buy phase.
-
No. Wine Merchants are discarded at the end of your Buy phase.
...Huh, what an interesting conundrum. You go from a Buy phase to something that's not a Buy phase; are you arguing that this doesn't involve the Buy phase "ending"? I go back and forth about whether your answer makes perfect sense or seems totally absurd, depending on how I frame the question.
-
Suppose you walk from point A to C
Point A is action phase, point B is buy phase, point C is discard phase.
Villa allows you to walk back from point B to point A. You never reached the end of point B, so you don't get to discard wine merchant, which only happens when you reach the end of point B and transition into point C.
That's how I visualize it.
-
No. Wine Merchants are discarded at the end of your Buy phase.
...Huh, what an interesting conundrum. You go from a Buy phase to something that's not a Buy phase; are you arguing that this doesn't involve the Buy phase "ending"? I go back and forth about whether your answer makes perfect sense or seems totally absurd, depending on how I frame the question.
Hmm now you have me thinking. The official FAQ for Arena does say it can trigger multiple times in a turn if you buy Villas, and it says "it is possible for your Buy phase to start twice or more in a turn". So maybe that's also insinuating it's possible to end your Buy phase twice or more in a turn? I mean... that could lead to an infinite loop situation if you'd played four Highways, and put the +1 Card token on Villa, and only had Wine Merchant in your deck, then just bought out the whole Villa pile, replaying Wine Merchant (and rediscarding it from the Tavern mat) each time. That's a weird way to get $40 and 11 buys.
-
I buy Villa with at least 2 coins unspent. Can I discard my Wine Merchants from my tavern mat because I am returning to the action phase?
I am going to tentatively rule that no, you didn't reach the end of your Buy phase. I feel like that's the most intuitive answer.
-
I'm pretty sure that ShuffleiT have it implemented such that you can discard them...
-
I buy Villa with at least 2 coins unspent. Can I discard my Wine Merchants from my tavern mat because I am returning to the action phase?
I am going to tentatively rule that no, you didn't reach the end of your Buy phase. I feel like that's the most intuitive answer.
I think it's pretty unintuitive that Villa gives you another "start of buy-phase" (see Arena ruling wero mentioned), but not another "end of buy-phase"
-
I buy Villa with at least 2 coins unspent. Can I discard my Wine Merchants from my tavern mat because I am returning to the action phase?
I am going to tentatively rule that no, you didn't reach the end of your Buy phase. I feel like that's the most intuitive answer.
I think it's pretty unintuitive that Villa gives you another "start of buy-phase" (see Arena ruling wero mentioned), but not another "end of buy-phase"
Well I am interested in opinions, although in the end probably there will be people who simply intuit this differently.
-
If I'm watching a film, and half way through I go to make dinner, and when I come back I've forgotten what's happening and start the film again from the beginning, I had two "start of film" events but only the one "end of film" event.
-
If I'm watching a film, and half way through I go to make dinner, and when I come back I've forgotten what's happening and start the film again from the beginning, I had two "start of film" events but only the one "end of film" event.
I'm with this opinion, though the other view holds validity.
My analogy would be driving on roads. To get from your house (start of turn) to your destination (end of turn), you have to drive down 3 roads: Action Avenue, Buy Boulevard, and Cleanup Court. Villa activates while you're driving down Buy Boulevard, and transports you back to Action Avenue. The end of your buy phase is the place where Buy Boulevard meets Cleanup Court, and you never got there.
-
If I'm watching a film, and half way through I go to make dinner, and when I come back I've forgotten what's happening and start the film again from the beginning, I had two "start of film" events but only the one "end of film" event.
I'm with this opinion, though the other view holds validity.
My analogy would be driving on roads. To get from your house (start of turn) to your destination (end of turn), you have to drive down 3 roads: Action Avenue, Buy Boulevard, and Cleanup Court. Villa activates while you're driving down Buy Boulevard, and transports you back to Action Avenue. The end of your buy phase is the place where Buy Boulevard meets Cleanup Court, and you never got there.
Stop stealing analogies. :(
-
I would visualize it as a kind of goto structure..
while(buy_phase)
{
// do things you do in your buy phase
if(villa)
goto(action_phase)
// etc.
} // this is the end of the buy phase
You don't to that end since you have escaped from the 'buy phase' structure.
-
I would visualize it as a kind of goto structure..
while(buy_phase)
{
// do things you do in your buy phase
if(villa)
goto(action_phase)
// etc.
} // this is the end of the buy phase
You don't to that end since you have escaped from the 'buy phase' structure.
Eugh, gotos. But yes.
-
On the second print, are there any gameplay related reasons not to adjust it to say "At the start of clean-up"?
-
Eugh, gotos. But yes.
Fun fact: when I was 9, I heard using gotos was bad, so I literally find-and-replaced all the gotos in my codes with gosubs.
-
On the second print, are there any gameplay related reasons not to adjust it to say "At the start of clean-up"?
That does seem like it's the same only with this interaction clearer. It would let you order it relative to other start-of-clean-up effects, so we can imagine a card that would make it functionally different.
-
I would visualize it as a kind of goto structure..
while(buy_phase)
{
// do things you do in your buy phase
if(villa)
goto(action_phase)
// etc.
} // this is the end of the buy phase
You don't to that end since you have escaped from the 'buy phase' structure.
Eugh, gotos. But yes.
Ugh, a while loop
Seriously haven't used one of those since college, or when the language forces me to
-
I would visualize it as a kind of goto structure..
while(buy_phase)
{
// do things you do in your buy phase
if(villa)
goto(action_phase)
// etc.
} // this is the end of the buy phase
You don't to that end since you have escaped from the 'buy phase' structure.
Eugh, gotos. But yes.
Ugh, a while loop
Seriously haven't used one of those since college, or when the language forces me to
Yuck, sentences
They so annoy ever since school
-
I mean it didn't need to be a while loop, just some kind of \begin{buy_phase} ... \end{buy_phase} construct. I guess I imagined looping over your number of buys, or something. The point was that I envision Villa as escaping from buy phase without reaching the end.
-
I would visualize it as a kind of goto structure..
while(buy_phase)
{
// do things you do in your buy phase
if(villa)
goto(action_phase)
// etc.
} // this is the end of the buy phase
You don't to that end since you have escaped from the 'buy phase' structure.
Eugh, gotos. But yes.
Ugh, a while loop
Seriously haven't used one of those since college, or when the language forces me to
So you haven't used one in a... while?
-
You can always keep your while use up to date with a simple while(not_used_in_a_while) { use(while); }.