Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Topic started by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 11:39:53 am

Title: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 11:39:53 am
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160923/log.0.1474644268102.txt

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c2/Tunnel.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Tunnel) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/5e/Advisor.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Advisor) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8c/Gardens.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Gardens) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/42/Pirate_Ship.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Pirate Ship) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/0/0c/Laboratory.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Laboratory) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/23/Stash.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Stash)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/df/Ball.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ball) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/1/1d/Ratcatcher.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ratcatcher) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/69/Apothecary.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Apothecary) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/55/Fortune_Teller.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Fortune Teller) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/71/Menagerie.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Menagerie)
Code: [Select]
Ball, Ratcatcher, Apothecary, Fortune Teller, Menagerie, Tunnel, Advisor, Gardens, Pirate Ship, Laboratory, Stash
Hey, at least you didn't have to play it.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: AdrianHealey on September 23, 2016, 11:41:31 am
What a great board to play!

The log is different btw:
Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Chapel, University, Tunnel, Warehouse, Tournament, Worker's Village, Market, Rebuild, Hireling
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 11:45:05 am
Quote from: AdrianHealey on September 23, 2016, 11:41:31 am
What a great board to play!

The log is different btw:
Code: [Select]
Vineyard, Chapel, University, Tunnel, Warehouse, Tournament, Worker's Village, Market, Rebuild, Hireling

I fixed it.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Kirian on September 23, 2016, 11:48:03 am
I don't get the title.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 11:51:15 am
Quote from: Kirian on September 23, 2016, 11:48:03 am
I don't get the title.

Dominion will never be the same again. This board changes everything.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
I guess you just buy Lab and Pirate Ship here mostly? Silver on $3, a pair of Ratcatchers, just slog it out a little? Advisor is ok I guess just for a little more draw.

Tunnel and Apothecary don't seem very good here. Apothecary is tempting but you don't really have any expensive cards to spike, you risk losing your Potion, and you really want to start Pirate Ship right away so it has a greater percentage of the game to not suck. I don't even get how you're supposed to trigger Tunnel other than opposing Pirate Ships.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: tailred on September 23, 2016, 12:10:09 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
Tunnel and Apothecary don't seem very good here. Apothecary is tempting but you don't really have any expensive cards to spike, you risk losing your Potion, and you really want to start Pirate Ship right away so it has a greater percentage of the game to not suck. I don't even get how you're supposed to trigger Tunnel other than opposing Pirate Ships.
You could get a really lucky advisor.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 02:06:18 pm
Quote from: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.

It will at worst be a terminal Gold or something if the engine manages to trash down to only Stashes and draw, then hides the Stashes under the deck every shuffle. That's not too bad, and then your opponent had to waste all their time and effort building a Stash engine whose payload is a single Province buy a turn.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 02:09:45 pm
Quote from: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.

Aha. Now we might have something!
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Dingan on September 23, 2016, 02:25:33 pm
Quote from: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.

But that could just take way too long to set up.  You'd need 4 Stashes or 3 and a Fortune Teller (which you'd somehow need to reliably draw) to reliably get Province.  Meanwhile a Pirate Ship player will likely already be Provincing.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 03:00:34 pm
Quote from: Dingan on September 23, 2016, 02:25:33 pm
Quote from: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.

But that could just take way too long to set up.  You'd need 4 Stashes or 3 and a Fortune Teller (which you'd somehow need to reliably draw) to reliably get Province.  Meanwhile a Pirate Ship player will likely already be Provincing.

Not only that, but you have to trigger a shuffle at the end of each turn to get the Stashes where you want them. So you probably can't topdeck them. You can bottom deck them, maybe
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: dedicateddan on September 23, 2016, 03:26:09 pm
Using stash for money looks more efficient than using pirate ship

Also, it's a flavor win. The fortune teller gets to hide her stash of coins from plundering pirates!
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: Seprix on September 23, 2016, 03:40:34 pm
Can we just agree that this board is horrible and should never be played again?
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: traces Around on September 23, 2016, 04:05:57 pm
amoffett11 and I played a couple games on this board...

Pirate Ship is most definitely wrong. I played what was in essence Advisor money and didn't even need to use Stash.

I will stream a recording with live commentary later.

Edit: Well this sucks. I forgot to change one of the settings while doing the recording, which rendered the video unwatchable. I will post logs tomorrow instead.
Title: Re: Dominion develops terminal cancer
Post by: terminalCopper on September 25, 2016, 04:14:10 am
Quote from: Dingan on September 23, 2016, 02:25:33 pm
Quote from: terminalCopper on September 23, 2016, 02:03:44 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 23, 2016, 11:52:11 am
you really want to start Pirate Ship right away
Pirate Ship is countered hard by an engine using stash.

But that could just take way too long to set up.  You'd need 4 Stashes or 3 and a Fortune Teller (which you'd somehow need to reliably draw) to reliably get Province.  Meanwhile a Pirate Ship player will likely already be Provincing.

Let's do a quick approximation: If I buy Fortune Teller, Ratcatcher, Silver, 4 Advisors, 2 Labs, Stash and 4 Provinces, I need 14 turns. If I ball two advisors at once, it's 13 turns  in an idealistic scenario.
 Against Pirate Ships, I don't expect many dead turns, because most of my starting cards are gone, and 4 advisors+2labs give me a hand of 11 cards. Sure, if the Pirates steal 4 coppers+silver or 6 coppers, I need one more stash. Or two more stashs, if he focusses his whole game on stealing 6 coppers + silver.

So, lets say, I need 15 to 16 turns to get 4 provinces. Granted, thats not terrific, but its close to Smithy-BMs performance, and I have a hard time to believe that Pirate Ship/ Lab is faster. Especially, if it's under perpetual FT-attack, which can hurt while greening.