We have decided it is time to given Dominion (and Intrigue) a facelift. Accordingly, we have created new covers and replaced a few cards in each game to make them even more interesting and fun to play. For those who already have these games, we are offering upgrade packs that contain the new cards so players who do not want to buy a whole new game for these new cards can get just the new cards. In addition to new cards and covers, we have cleaned up the rules and card text to eliminate confusion. We have also removed the extra Base Cards from Intrigue, which will reduce the cost; players who want to play with 5-6 players can still get the Base Cards set for the extra cards needed. With Dominion, second edition, we have changed the Base cards to artwork similar to that found previously in Base Cards.
The games have been produced and we expect to begin shipping them to distributors next week.
Jay
I'm also guessing Chancellor, Sab and Adventurer are out
It sounds like the upgrade pack only has the new cards, not the cards with updated text. Does anyone know if that is, in fact, the case?Yes, only the new cards.
The games have been produced and we expect to begin shipping them to distributors next week.
I've known about this for a while. But it looks like it finally happened
Q: Will the new cards be available online? If so, when?
A: Yes. At launch.
We as a community are like family waiting outside for a new child to be born,
I mean parents are pretty handsome, all the previous children were great,
this one is so sudden though
So I guess the big question is do you get both full sets out just the update packs. I'm leaning towards the full sets because I'm a nerd.
I kinda wished that Masq skipped players with less than 4 cards in hand, since I find the Militia/Masq combo to be one of the most evil things to do to an opponent in Dominion.
I don't know, but there is a greater chance that the Intrigue ones will be available than the Dominion ones, because people bought Intrigue but not Dominion.Q: Will the new cards be available online? If so, when?
A: Yes. At launch.
Will the old cards be available?
So I guess the big question is do you get both full sets out just the update packs. I'm leaning towards the full sets because I'm a nerd.
We as a community are like family waiting outside for a new child to be born,
I mean parents are pretty handsome, all the previous children were great,
this one is so sudden though
More like an 18 yr old knocking on your door you never knew about..."Daddy!"
I kinda wished that Masq skipped players with less than 4 cards in hand, since I find the Militia/Masq combo to be one of the most evil things to do to an opponent in Dominion.
Hve you played the kings court-kings court-goons-masquarade-masquarade combo?
I see no information that Scout is dead. Why is everyone assuming that?
- Six cards replaced with new cards
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".It does not.
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".It does not.
The four changes I listed are I believe the only functional changes; I would have included Bridge on the list if it had that change, because that's a real (minor) functional difference, like the new "you may" on Moneylender.
The other wording changes are non-functional things, like saying "they" instead of "he."
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".It does not.
The four changes I listed are I believe the only functional changes; I would have included Bridge on the list if it had that change, because that's a real (minor) functional difference, like the new "you may" on Moneylender.
The other wording changes are non-functional things, like saying "they" instead of "he."
What are the new cards going to be?
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".It does not.
The four changes I listed are I believe the only functional changes; I would have included Bridge on the list if it had that change, because that's a real (minor) functional difference, like the new "you may" on Moneylender.
The other wording changes are non-functional things, like saying "they" instead of "he."
What are the new cards going to be?
canonically, will the errata on mine, throne room, and moneylender apply retroactively? will the police come if i tell my friend that she has to play an action if she has one when she plays throne room
Maybe Bridge now has "While this is in play...".It does not.
Q: Will the new cards be available online? If so, when?
A: Yes. At launch.
Will the old cards be available?
Q: Will the new cards be available online? If so, when?
A: Yes. At launch.
Will the old cards be available?
I know this is meant to be a joke, but I'd like some clarification. The replaced cards are technically in no expansions then, so do they stay in the Dominion canon? (I know I can do whatever I like with my pieces of cardboard, I'm interested about the online implementation)
Bold and probably wrong predictions of removed cards:
Dominion: Adventurer, Chancellor, Feast, Thief, Spy, Bureaucrat. Honorable mention: Woodcutter (boring and one of the weakest +buy cards, but fits the theme of simple cards).
Was consideration given to having Moneylender trash Treasures instead of just Coppers, to match up with Spice Merchant? Or was this too big of a change to make?
Q: Will the new cards be available online? If so, when?
A: Yes. At launch.
Will the old cards be available?
I know this is meant to be a joke, but I'd like some clarification. The replaced cards are technically in no expansions then, so do they stay in the Dominion canon? (I know I can do whatever I like with my pieces of cardboard, I'm interested about the online implementation)
canonically, will the errata on mine, throne room, and moneylender apply retroactively? will the police come if i tell my friend that she has to play an action if she has one when she plays throne roomI recommend doing what you most want, unless it's stopping someone from doing what they want, unless what they want is also stopping someone from doing what they want, uh okay I think an even number of stoppings means it's okay, an odd number is bad.
I know this is meant to be a joke, but I'd like some clarification. The replaced cards are technically in no expansions then, so do they stay in the Dominion canon? (I know I can do whatever I like with my pieces of cardboard, I'm interested about the online implementation)Canonically the replaced cards are in the first editions of Dominion and Intrigue, and not in the second editions. There are separate product numbers and covers.
This gives me hope that one day Dark Ages will be reprinted with revised versions of Rebuild and Cultist, and that one day Alchemy will be reprinted, without Possession.I am less hopeful than you there! The replacing cards thing is not planned for other expansions; I think the only reasonable candidate is Seaside and well I didn't do it. And the functionally changing cards, that's only being done in cases where the functional change mostly doesn't come up. It is quite rare for it to matter that Mine doesn't say "you may." For example. Masquerade comes up more often, but only because people set up that specific scenario.
I recall reading somewhere that the reason Moneylender et al. weren't revised before was because any change to card text would obviate the right to put the Spiel des Jahres logo on the box (on the grounds that the award was given for the original set of cards, I guess). Has Spiel des Jahres loosened up their restrictions, or was this more of a "hey, people know what Dominion is already, we don't need the Spiel des Jahres logo to promote the game anymore" situation?I have commented on this issue in public in the past; without looking anything up, I don't know exactly what I said, but it's a real thing, that to keep using the logo we'd need to ask the SdJ people. They'd probably say yes (for one thing they make money on the logo being used), but it would be a thing.
(or am I just misremembering something, I guess)
Anyone else considering buying the entire new editions just for the they pronoun cards, bold text +Whatever, and errata cards? maybe these are too few cards to be worth buying whole new sets for, but I could give away my old ones.
I am sl excited to get around 12 new cards and the disappearance of 12 cards of which I am sure at least 10 of them are bad.
I can't see Feast getting a fixed version.
I can't see Feast getting a fixed version.
What's wrong with Feast? They can't all be the greatest $4 ever.
You can view the new art on BGG.Where is it? Can't seem to find it.
Edit: You can see it all, and its sick.
Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
saboteur seems unsalvagable.
So? You still gotta draw through your green stuff. ^^Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
It'll actually be pretty similar to Apoth too, but again it's drawing estates most of the time instead of coppers.
Bold and probably wrong predictions of removed cards:Everything here sounds right to me except Torturer. It feels like too interesting a card to get rid of just because it's unpleasant. Don't know what I'd kick out instead though. Possibly Swindler because it's annoying, but again it's an interesting card. Possibly Wishing Well because it's a cantrip that causes analysis paralysis.
Dominion: Adventurer, Chancellor, Feast, Thief, Spy, Bureaucrat. Honorable mention: Woodcutter (boring and one of the weakest +buy cards, but fits the theme of simple cards).
Intrigue: Scout, Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Coppersmith, Torturer (far too powerful in the 3-4 player games that casual players typically play, and leads to analysis paralysis), Tribute (encourages players to skip the multi-type cards that Intrigue introduced). Honorable mention: Harem (art and name cause issues).
However RGG does not currently use the logo (did I mention you have to pay for it?). So this is an issue mainly for the German publisher, Altenburger, and well I don't know what they're doing yet.
So? You still gotta draw through your green stuff. ^^Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
It'll actually be pretty similar to Apoth too, but again it's drawing estates most of the time instead of coppers.
A Lab for 4 is brilliant. A Double Lab (happens often enough, with cantrip Scouts you do not even have to trash your Estates) for 4 is cwazy. And deck-rearrangement is a cherry on top of all that very sweet cake.
When would you ever not open with a cantrip Scout? And if you play Intrigue only with all that Victory cards Scout would be even more kick-ass.
All of this is kinda like with Cellar. Cellar is OK at 2 whereas a cantrip Cellar would easily be a 4 or 5.
Scout with +1 card would be very similar to Apothecary except worse, so I'm not convinced that it would be insanely strong.The simple fact that Cartographer exists shows that it's not broken in concept. But maybe underpriced at 4, even more so considering all the fun dual-types out there.
Why not scout + village effect?Assuming you mean +2actions without +cards, I really like it but I fear it might compare badly to all other villages, at any price. Does Intrigue really need another shanty town?
I have no information about what Altenburger will do. It's up to them, and not something they would tell me directly. I will be surprised if they ignore the new stuff, but I have no actual information.However RGG does not currently use the logo (did I mention you have to pay for it?). So this is an issue mainly for the German publisher, Altenburger, and well I don't know what they're doing yet.
Don't you know what ASS is doing at all or only about the logo? I.e. will there be a German version of the new edition and the upgrade packs, and when?
Also, what will the upgrade packs cost?
Why not scout + village effect?Assuming you mean +2actions without +cards, I really like it but I fear it might compare badly to all other villages, at any price. Does Intrigue really need another shanty town?
Oh, my bad.Why not scout + village effect?Assuming you mean +2actions without +cards, I really like it but I fear it might compare badly to all other villages, at any price. Does Intrigue really need another shanty town?
That would be necropolis + scout.
I meant scout + village. :)
(I disagree that cantrip-scout would be op, I think village-scout is olish; it's a village. The scout is just a nice bonus to have.)
Please let Minion be gone.I sure would rather see Minion go than Great Hall.
Please let Minion be gone.I sure would rather see Minion go than Great Hall.
If Donald made a 4c event that gave a vp token and made the endgame closer (say by trashing a victory card), people would drool over it, but nobody cares for poor little Great Hall who did that (and more) before it was cool. (and before events and vp tokens were a thing) ;)
I recommend that you stop using the replaced cards, except that one that you can't believe I took out; I'd keep playing with that one.
A few of the new cards are based on removed cards, and the rest are just trying to be good new cards appropriate for Dominion or Intrigue.
However RGG does not currently use the logo (did I mention you have to pay for it?). So this is an issue mainly for the German publisher, Altenburger, and well I don't know what they're doing yet.
Don't you know what ASS is doing at all or only about the logo? I.e. will there be a German version of the new edition and the upgrade packs, and when?
Also, what will the upgrade packs cost?
No rulebook. Sigh.However RGG does not currently use the logo (did I mention you have to pay for it?). So this is an issue mainly for the German publisher, Altenburger, and well I don't know what they're doing yet.
Don't you know what ASS is doing at all or only about the logo? I.e. will there be a German version of the new edition and the upgrade packs, and when?
Also, what will the upgrade packs cost?
The RGG website shows that the Dominion update pack will be $14.95. The price for the Intrigue update pack is not available, but presumably it will be similar.
http://riograndegames.com/Game/1313-Dominion-update-pack (http://riograndegames.com/Game/1313-Dominion-update-pack)
No rulebook. Sigh.
Considering we didn't know this existed until like 12 hours ago, and the rule book will be out sometime in the next 7 days, I think we can all be patient and wait for it. Right?
I mean, we knew future prints of Intrigue wouldn't come with Base Cards, but that's about it.
Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website. I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.
This gives me hope that one day Dark Ages will be reprinted with revised versions of Rebuild and Cultist, and that one day Alchemy will be reprinted, without Possession.
Clearly youre not as obsessed as I am.Considering we didn't know this existed until like 12 hours ago, and the rule book will be out sometime in the next 7 days, I think we can all be patient and wait for it. Right?
I mean, we knew future prints of Intrigue wouldn't come with Base Cards, but that's about it.
Waiting for the rulebook seems fairly easy.
Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website. I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.
so, you've seen actual cards yet??
Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website. I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.
so, you've seen actual cards yet??
http://www.dominion-welt.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/S160160DomEmpiASSD_SR_LowRes_72dpi.pdf
Waiting for the translations is once again going to be annoying. I still don't have Empires...
Well, Dominion Welt now has the German rules up on their website. I'm sure Dutch shouldn't be too far behind.
so, you've seen actual cards yet??
http://www.dominion-welt.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/S160160DomEmpiASSD_SR_LowRes_72dpi.pdf
I saw a German copy of Empires yesterday.
Maybe the card "you can't believe [Donald] took out" is Chapel.
I'm there for you guys with the tough answers.
Main set:
The big thing is to add more replayability. There are six vanilla cards and probably five would have been fine; the obvious one to replace is Woodcutter. Woodcutter is a fine card for the main set but the other vanilla cards are all better. That means all of the +buy cards would cost $5 but I can live with that. After that, Feast adds very little. Chancellor doesn't add much and would have been better in Intrigue (where it came from); the fact that it's a puzzler is way better in an expansion than in the main set. And finally there's Spy. Spy is slow to resolve, that's the big thing. Over the years I have learned that ideally Spy-type attacks don't have +1 action, or don't involve a decision, or both. Rabble is exactly what I want. Spy has +1 action and involves a decision, so you potentially make tons of decisions per turn. I like decisions but man Spy is not where to get them. It initially got to interact with two attacks that trashed cards from the top of your deck, and that's cool, but now it only interacts with Thief (in the main set that is), and that combo just isn't worth the slot.
The way to think of these things is, imagine the replacement cards. Let's say I just take out Woodcutter and Feast and put in Wishing Well and Coppersmith. Those are not top-of-the-line adored-by-all go-in-every-deck cards. But they still give you more to do than Woodcutter and Feast do.
It would be nice if Thief were stronger, but it already scares new players, and once everyone was new. There are some wording tweaks; Throne Room and Moneylender should of course say "you may." I would try coloring the coins on the treasures. The Trash card should be a mat instead.
There are people who complain about various other cards, but I am happy with those, so there.
Intrigue:
Saboteur is the biggest mistake here. Some people hate it because it can trash Provinces, some because it's an attack that doesn't make resources (which was a surprise but there it is), some just don't like it because it's weak. Some people like it, but the kind of person who wants an attack like this deserves one that has fewer strikes against it - like, Swindler, there you go.
Moats have to be on the weak side, but I would probably still try to improve Secret Chamber. It also has the issue of making reactions confusing - the whole business of, reveal Secret Chamber, resolve it, reveal a Moat I drew off of it. It would be better to avoid that issue, even if it meant just not doing Secret Chamber's reaction.
I would look at ways to buff Scout. I would consider changing Mining Village to avoid invoking the enigmatic "lose track" rule. I would consider whether I like Bridge and Coppersmith as is, in their Throne-able glory, or if I would rather phrase them the way I think such stuff in general should be phrased, like Highway etc. Masquerade originally triggered gain/trash things; I would look at that again, but honestly I would be unlikely to just reword it to address the King's Court / Masquerade / Goons combo. Masquerade has a clear simple wording and I would rather kill the card than make the wording awful, an awful that you dear reader may be mystified as to the awfulness of, I have come to terms with that. But I'm not sure I need to kill the combo and Masquerade is a pretty cool card.
I'd be seriously disappointed if Adventurer stays. To me it's the most blatant offense of cards being unbalanced. All the other awful cards tried to do something unique atleast, so it was harder to balance them. But this is just simple draw that is awful.
Also a wording tweak on Mining Village might be good enough? My guess would be that Tribute replaces it in Aleimons list.
Also a wording tweak on Mining Village might be good enough? My guess would be that Tribute replaces it in Aleimons list.
Inwouldn't be surprised to have Conspirator replaced with a card that does Peddler style action card counting, and maybe to make up for that it gets conditional +Buy? Perhaps that's too much. Or just a totally different card.
This gives me hope that [...] one day Alchemy will be reprinted, without Possession.
I think Empires has hints as to what won't make it. Keep in mind the rulebook mentions Intrigue 2nd Edition, so the recommended Kingdoms were likely made with this in mind. With that said, Harem and Mining Village are used, so I don't think they are out. Also Pawn and Torturer are used as well.
I also hear the card corners will be less rounded.
I think Empires has hints as to what won't make it. Keep in mind the rulebook mentions Intrigue 2nd Edition, so the recommended Kingdoms were likely made with this in mind. With that said, Harem and Mining Village are used, so I don't think they are out. Also Pawn and Torturer are used as well.
We also probably won't be saying goodbye to Bureaucrat and Cellar, but Chapel isn't in there...
I also hear the card corners will be less rounded.
I really doubt they would make a change that would mark cards as being from one set or the other. Considering they have said they can't change the backs.
I think Empires has hints as to what won't make it. Keep in mind the rulebook mentions Intrigue 2nd Edition, so the recommended Kingdoms were likely made with this in mind. With that said, Harem and Mining Village are used, so I don't think they are out. Also Pawn and Torturer are used as well.
So one question I'd like to be clear on. If I get the Base Update only, I will not be getting the trash mat or reworded Mine, Throne Room or Moneylender?
Thanks
So I guess the big question is do you get both full sets out just the update packs. I'm leaning towards the full sets because I'm a nerd.
The real question is, do I go out and buy first edition Intrigue while I still can, or let the chance to own Scout slip forever through my fingers?
So I guess the big question is do you get both full sets out just the update packs. I'm leaning towards the full sets because I'm a nerd.
The real question is, do I go out and buy first edition Intrigue while I still can, or let the chance to own Scout slip forever through my fingers?
Buy it, don't unwrap it. Will be worth huge moneys.
-An optional one shot, but without the tracking issues. A lot of Enterprise could make it into intruige with some changes.
-A card that cares about copper. Probably not as an attack, but a copper gainer would be cool and maybe having it in intuige would help Coppersmith.
Yikes, that King is rocking the fancy white hair! Is that the child of Milo Yiannopoulos and Boris Johnson!?
Card predictions:
Question: will the new cards be completely different, or will they be "improved" versions of the old cards? Given the replaced cards and the replacing cards, could I match them up one-to-one and say, "now this one is the new Scout!"?
A few of the new cards are based on removed cards, and the rest are just trying to be good new cards appropriate for Dominion or Intrigue.
Hopefully the update packs are easy to get in Canada!
I think I'll apply errata with stickers to my binder pockets, so when a card is taken out I can remind the players.
Maybe the card "you can't believe [Donald] took out" is Chapel.The card you can't believe I took out varies from person to person. The context was someone asking if I recommended no longer playing with the removed cards. Myself, I am no longer playing with them. But any given person will have whatever card they wouldn't have removed, and well you don't have to remove it.
Maybe the card "you can't believe [Donald] took out" is Chapel.The card you can't believe I took out varies from person to person. The context was someone asking if I recommended no longer playing with the removed cards. Myself, I am no longer playing with them. But any given person will have whatever card they wouldn't have removed, and well you don't have to remove it.
Where did he say he was waiting for that? The only thing I see is this: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23765006#23765006, where he says that he can't post it to the RGG website atm.
You are right. In the beginning Cantrip Scout is quite likely to be a Double Lab. For 4. Taking about cwazy squared.So? You still gotta draw through your green stuff. ^^Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
It'll actually be pretty similar to Apoth too, but again it's drawing estates most of the time instead of coppers.
A Lab for 4 is brilliant. A Double Lab (happens often enough, with cantrip Scouts you do not even have to trash your Estates) for 4 is cwazy. And deck-rearrangement is a cherry on top of all that very sweet cake.
When would you ever not open with a cantrip Scout? And if you play Intrigue only with all that Victory cards Scout would be even more kick-ass.
All of this is kinda like with Cellar. Cellar is OK at 2 whereas a cantrip Cellar would easily be a 4 or 5.
Scout isn't always a Lab even if you gave it +1 Card, in a lot of decks it would still be pretty mediocre if there's any decent Estate trashing.
I just now saw this, and haven't read any of the replies yet, so I'm sure that this has been said already....
NO MORE MASQ PINS!! >:( >:( :'( :'(
I know that a lot of people will like them, but as someone who really likes "alternate win conditions", I think a setup that allows a Masq pin makes for a fun game.
Now there's a separate question about if old cards are considered to have errata or not. If my physical Throne Room doesn't say "you may", should I still play as if it did to be fully following the rules of Dominion? Similar to how MTG has the Oracle card wordings, and what's printed on the card doesn't matter? (Unless you have R&D's Secret Lair in play, of course).
Will the wiki be updated?
You are right. In the beginning Cantrip Scout is quite likely to be a Double Lab. For 4. Taking about cwazy squared.So? You still gotta draw through your green stuff. ^^Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
It'll actually be pretty similar to Apoth too, but again it's drawing estates most of the time instead of coppers.
A Lab for 4 is brilliant. A Double Lab (happens often enough, with cantrip Scouts you do not even have to trash your Estates) for 4 is cwazy. And deck-rearrangement is a cherry on top of all that very sweet cake.
When would you ever not open with a cantrip Scout? And if you play Intrigue only with all that Victory cards Scout would be even more kick-ass.
All of this is kinda like with Cellar. Cellar is OK at 2 whereas a cantrip Cellar would easily be a 4 or 5.
Scout isn't always a Lab even if you gave it +1 Card, in a lot of decks it would still be pretty mediocre if there's any decent Estate trashing.
Cantrip Scout isn't just extremely overpowered in combination with Great Hall but with virtually any hybrid Victory card.
I just now saw this, and haven't read any of the replies yet, so I'm sure that this has been said already....
NO MORE MASQ PINS!! >:( >:( :'( :'(
I know that a lot of people will like them, but as someone who really likes "alternate win conditions", I think a setup that allows a Masq pin makes for a fun game.
Now there's a separate question about if old cards are considered to have errata or not. If my physical Throne Room doesn't say "you may", should I still play as if it did to be fully following the rules of Dominion? Similar to how MTG has the Oracle card wordings, and what's printed on the card doesn't matter? (Unless you have R&D's Secret Lair in play, of course).
I think scout will be completely demolished and be replaced with a different card.
I still think the simplest fix to Scout is making it cost $2.
The comparison with Cartographer seems obvious but Cantrip Scout is more of a conditional (Double-)Lab with deck rearrangement whereas Cartographer is a sifter with deck rearrangment.You are right. In the beginning Cantrip Scout is quite likely to be a Double Lab. For 4. Taking about cwazy squared.So? You still gotta draw through your green stuff. ^^Eh, I'd doubt it. It'll look like a net lab often, but the cards drawn are still useless. Same problem as vagrant, although that one's a 2 cost. Although the similarity to vagrant means that that change isn't a very appealing one.Getting Scout to work could be as simple as giving it +1 Card.That would make a weak card into a crazily overpowered card.
It'll actually be pretty similar to Apoth too, but again it's drawing estates most of the time instead of coppers.
A Lab for 4 is brilliant. A Double Lab (happens often enough, with cantrip Scouts you do not even have to trash your Estates) for 4 is cwazy. And deck-rearrangement is a cherry on top of all that very sweet cake.
When would you ever not open with a cantrip Scout? And if you play Intrigue only with all that Victory cards Scout would be even more kick-ass.
All of this is kinda like with Cellar. Cellar is OK at 2 whereas a cantrip Cellar would easily be a 4 or 5.
Scout isn't always a Lab even if you gave it +1 Card, in a lot of decks it would still be pretty mediocre if there's any decent Estate trashing.
Cantrip Scout isn't just extremely overpowered in combination with Great Hall but with virtually any hybrid Victory card.
It might be too good for $4, but it's just a different Cartographer, rmost of the time.
Ehm, both Cartographer and Cantrip Scout improve your next draw / hand. You'd rather have the green in your hands than discard pile if there are discard for benefit cards and if there are alt-VP Cantrip Scout becomes obviously crazy.
I would virtually always open with Cantrip Scout. Hell, a potential double Lab for a mere 4? Sign me in.
Ehm, both Cartographer and Cantrip Scout improve your next draw / hand. You'd rather have the green in your hands than discard pile if there are discard for benefit cards and if there are alt-VP Cantrip Scout becomes obviously crazy.
I would virtually always open with Cantrip Scout. Hell, a potential double Lab for a mere 4? Sign me in.
Ehm, both Cartographer and Cantrip Scout improve your next draw / hand. You'd rather have the green in your hands than discard pile if there are discard for benefit cards and if there are alt-VP Cantrip Scout becomes obviously crazy.
I would virtually always open with Cantrip Scout. Hell, a potential double Lab for a mere 4? Sign me in.
n cantrip Scout Wishing Well
0 21.2% 36.4%
1 50.9% 63.6%
2+ 27.9% 0.0%
So cantrip Scout is a bit better, but I don't think it would dominate. The problem that it doesn't do anything for your current hand would remain.
So cantrip Scout is a bit better, but I don't think it would dominate. The problem that it doesn't do anything for your current hand would remain.Exactly, which I why I feel like repeatedly calling it a 'double-lab' is a really disingenuous way of arguing this case.
No rulebook. Sigh.
I am sl excited to get around 12 new cards and the disappearance of 12 cards of which I am sure at least 10 of them are bad.
We're actually getting 14 new cards
I am sl excited to get around 12 new cards and the disappearance of 12 cards of which I am sure at least 10 of them are bad.
We're actually getting 14 new cards
What do you mean by this? It's 6 from each set right?
Plus the one that replaces blanks.I am sl excited to get around 12 new cards and the disappearance of 12 cards of which I am sure at least 10 of them are bad.
We're actually getting 14 new cards
What do you mean by this? It's 6 from each set right?
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.Yes. This was stated on BGG:
Oh, oops. Yes, those base card "randomizers" are being removed. I don't think that's much of a spoiler, but uh there you are. I'm guessing Donald would have mentioned that in his big "here are the changes" post if he'd thought of it.
Apols if this has been addressed but do they come with the fancy-artworked treasures/victory cards instead of the plain ones?
Jay says the rules should be up today!!!!!! :)
Are they up yet?
No rulebook. Sigh.
Are they up yet?No rulebook. Sigh.
Are they up yet?No rulebook. Sigh.
Are they up yet?No rulebook. Sigh.
Sorry for the late reply, I was busy doing something productive.
Trying to think of a witty retort but I can't. I'll edit this post if I do.Are they up yet?No rulebook. Sigh.
Sorry for the late reply, I was busy doing something productive.
Somehow I have trouble imagining that.
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.
I like and use them. They make it easy to see when a pile (esp. Curse, Duchy, Estate) is empty, which makes the game more beginner-friendly. Obviously you don't need to have them, but why would you ask about them as if the game got worse by having them? I too would certainly prefer an actual kingdom card over the randomizers (which might actually add up here), but if you can have them for free in adfition, yes please.
Just to be clear, are we losing the Base Card randomizer cards that nobody liked or used anyway? I assume so, just curious.
I like and use them. They make it easy to see when a pile (esp. Curse, Duchy, Estate) is empty, which makes the game more beginner-friendly. Obviously you don't need to have them, but why would you ask about them as if the game got worse by having them? I too would certainly prefer an actual kingdom card over the randomizers (which might actually add up here), but if you can have them for free in adfition, yes please.
For me they too often got mixed up with the actual randomizers and I had to remove them. I remember my first game of Dominion, where we thought they were there because some hardcore players liked to only play with some of the basic cards, and so included them in the randomizer deck.
For clarification, Jay stated that he hopes to have the rules posted today. Sounds like it's contingent on certain issues with the RGG website being resolved.I was being optimistic.
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Considering it's now Saturday, Jay probably won't put up the rules until Monday.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3179.msg56362#msg56362http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16263.msg639029#msg639029
Probably required reading for any speculation.
Anyway, I'm sad we're short one +Buy. I always feel +Buy the to be the most common element missing in most Kingdoms. Another trasher is good and all the nonterminals help. Another Village may have been nice.Base loses a buy, but Intrigue gets one. Also, there are quite a lot of new gainers
So... Lurker. I'm pure theorycrafting here, but I wonder if it's really going to be that great. In some kingdoms, of course, it could be great. King's Court a Lurker, gain a King's Court and a half. But a lot of the time, this is effectively two card plays to get a $5 or $6 card, and with a risk of your opponent sniping them if you're careless. So... sorta like a psuedo Silver to Gold that only works on action cards, maybe? Although in T4B it's insanely efficient. I guess I'm beginning to convince myself that it's pretty good actually. Yeah, this thing could be really powerful in the right kingdom. But I think it'll be skippable a lot of the time, or possibly something you pick up a single copy of because you want to deny your opponent free trash control.
The wording on Vassal is a little strange to me. Shouldn't it be "Reveal the top card of your deck, etc., discard it otherwise"? If the card is an Action card and you decide to play it, it's not ever in your discard pile, right? I know this doesn't matter for Tunnel but in case there are other cards that care about 'when discard', it might?In general I don't want to make a card wordier or confusing to handle exotic cases unless there's no other way to do it, and for the main set especially I was desperate to have shorter wordings.
This is also why Merchant says "first" rather than "next."
Yes. When you played your first Silver, you didn't have the Merchant around.This is also why Merchant says "first" rather than "next."
...So does this mean if you play Merchant ''after'' the "first Silver you play this turn" (via Storyteller or whatever), you don't get the bonus for the next Silver you play?
Additionally for Intrigue:
- One card changed mildly (Masquerade skips players with no cards in hand)
Courtier is way to weak to be an replacement. Less fun than tribute IMO.
Where (online) can I get the Update pack?The future? The new stuff was announced to distributors at the same time as to the public, and people take time to react. Distributors have bought update packs so it's only a matter of time before they're offered for sale.
The problem with Coppersmith was that was largely useless in the expansion that it was present in. Intrigue is an early expansion that I imagine many people tend to buy when their only other set is Base, and there are pretty much zero effective uses for coppersmith in Intrigue and Base.That's a good point. As someone who always play all set mixed anyway, I deplore that dominion cards depends so much on the expansion they are in. Like, Cultist is a broken card I would be glad to see updated, but it is neither from base game nor from intrigue…
So given that the early sets are more likely to be played in a situation where the pool of cards to choose from is at its lowest, it's much better all round to have the cards in Intrigue provide much more general purpose utility and variety. This way the expansion is more interesting at the time when it needs to provide the most impact. Coppersmith was simply too narrow and weak.
I feel the lack of Gardens-enablers worries me. I'm sad that thief goes. It was a good Gardens-enabler in 4p. It could have been tweaked to still do that, and not suck most of the other time. On top of that, we get a lot more engine-enablers. The new cards also cost more on average. Artisan is very likely to stop a Gardens-centered strategy cold rather than help it. Outside of a Workshop-Gardens combo, will Gardens be relegated to consolidation price status in the base set? That would be a shame for such a cool card. Not everyone who picks up the base set, even today, will go on and buy other expansions.Honestly I think the addition of Artisan and a bunch of cantrips will help Gardens rather than hurt it. Gaining Festivals and Markets is really good for gardens based strategies and cantrips are nice anyway.
Yes, I'm a slogger at heart. Thief-Gardens in a 4p game was my first win and then I was hooked. I will miss that combo. :'(
Imagine my excitement when I first heard about this tremendous opportunity to do the right thing... and the ensuing disappointment upon learning that Swindler was still there :(Also, Silver is still in the Base game!
Seriously, I don't get it.
Dominion is a great game because there is no stated strategies, not every game of dominion is about trashing coppers and creating an engine.
Coppersmith was rather a weak card but there is nothing wrong about that. Bureaucrat is also a weak card, that has more text and that is harder to remember, yet it stays.
I will miss coppersmith / apothecary / bank combos so much. All the new cards are nice, but none is unique like coppersmith.
Sentry Action $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.
Trash and/or discard any number of them.
Put the rest back in any order.
Imagine my excitement when I first heard about this tremendous opportunity to do the right thing... and the ensuing disappointment upon learning that Swindler was still there :(
I feel the lack of Gardens-enablers worries me. I'm sad that thief goes. It was a good Gardens-enabler in 4p. It could have been tweaked to still do that, and not suck most of the other time. On top of that, we get a lot more engine-enablers. The new cards also cost more on average. Artisan is very likely to stop a Gardens-centered strategy cold rather than help it. Outside of a Workshop-Gardens combo, will Gardens be relegated to consolidation price status in the base set? That would be a shame for such a cool card. Not everyone who picks up the base set, even today, will go on and buy other expansions.
Yes, I'm a slogger at heart. Thief-Gardens in a 4p game was my first win and then I was hooked. I will miss that combo. :'(
Ha, i predicted the removed cards correctly, hooray. I'm a bit surprised by cards playing cards from your deck and cards giving money when you play another card in base, but in general i don't really have an opinion on the new cards yet.
Imagine my excitement when I first heard about this tremendous opportunity to do the right thing... and the ensuing disappointment upon learning that Swindler was still there :(
On first read through, I missed Swindler still being in the game and I got up and cheered. I actually ran around the room excited that this terrible, swingy card was removed from the game. But then I saw it was still there.
Strategy question: when do you buy Cartographer over Sentry?
I'm happy that Silver's weakness was recognized and it's now getting all these buffs.
Where (online) can I get the Update pack?How reliable is Miniature Market? I don't want to wait for Amazon, and my FLGS is unreliable for getting games on time.
When I didn't see it on Amazon, I was hoping to order it from the RGG website, but you can't.
EDIT: nevermind I found (and ordered) it on miniaturemarket.com (http://www.miniaturemarket.com/rio534.html)
I think we'll have to wait to see what Courtier is really like. To me it just seems odd. A terminal +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png) isn't that bad, Mandarin and Count give you this but with drawbacks. That will probably be most people's first choice, unless they need the buy or the Gold gaining. As for the second, either +Action or +Buy, depending on whatever else is in hand.Count is primarily used for trashing. It will much stronger than courtier. Mandrin is really weak and courtier doesn't do much to fix this.
It was mentioned before, but it'll be interesting to see how many cards have 2 or more types. Of course you have to get them in hand for it to mean anything, but lining things up with another useful card might not be that hard (vs. say, Baron in the mid-late game). This does give new meaning to cards that have types that otherwise don't seem to mean much, like Prize, Castle, Gathering, etc.
Courtier is generally a weaker Explorer.
Provinces are more common than multi-type cards.
Revealing province practically does the same thing that the gold gain +dollars
Not revealing a multi type card gets you a terminal gold or a gold gain
Not revealing a province gets you a silver and two coins.
I like that Replace is a late-game curser.
I like that Replace is a late-game curser.
It also makes picking Harem over Gold or whatever a little more appealing.
Harbringer:
Decided to make a quick goodbye video :P
https://youtu.be/_wMxtm2b4p0
I like that Replace is a late-game curser.
It also makes picking Harem over Gold or whatever a little more appealing.
You get to topdeck that Harem, so I'm not completely sure. I mean, you end up having to look at it. Ew.
Decided to make a quick goodbye video :P
Vidya
Watched and enjoyed. Will watch the video on the 14 (15 (16)) new cards if you make one.
As for Intrigue, Patrol is quite the Scout buff. It seems kind of strong actually. Also, I'm surprised get another Smithy variant since Envoy was removed for that reason.
As for Intrigue, Patrol is quite the Scout buff. It seems kind of strong actually. Also, I'm surprised get another Smithy variant since Envoy was removed for that reason.
Envoy's not from Intrigue, it wasn't removed from anything.
- Envoy left the set and then became a promo. I am kind of embarassed by it - it left this set because it didn't add enough to the game, and then it became a promo and well that's still an issue, right? It does at least have the merit there of not making people feel as much like they have to have it. But the thing is, we found out we needed the promo the same day it was needed. There was no time to test a new card, and Envoy was one of a small number of cards that had actually had some external playtesting (other than the cards in the set, which I didn't want to give up). And I do like the card; it totally could have made a later expansion, providing some card-drawing for that expansion and a new experience, if not new decks. They can't all be Gardens. It's just sad to have this early on because each card matters more now; with just the main set you only have 25 cards and this one does not carve out much new territory. Anyway I suggested it for the promo and it escaped to promo-land and so much for that. Over time it will matter less that it doesn't add so much.
[/u]Artisan Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png)
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5.
Put a card from you hand on to your deck.
Bandit Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Gain a Gold.
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed treasure other than Copper, and discards the rest.
Sentry Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.
Trash and/or discard any number of them.
Put the rest back in any order.
Poacher Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
Discard a card per empty supply pile.
Harbinger Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile.
You may put a card from it onto your deck.
Merchant Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
The first time you play a Silver this turn +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png).
Vassal Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
Discard the top card of your deck. If it is an Action card, you may play it.
Courtier Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Reveal a card from your hand.
For each type it has (Action, Attack, etc.), choose one: +1 Action, or +1 Buy, or +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png), or gain a Gold.'
The choices must be different.
Patrol Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
+3 Cards.
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the Victory cards and Curse cards into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.
Replace Action/Attack (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) more than the trashed card. If the gained card is an Action or Treasure, put it onto your deck. If it's a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
Diplomat Action/Reaction (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.
Mill Action/Victory (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
Worth 1 (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action.
You may discard 2 cards for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
Secret Passage Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.
Lurker Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
+1 Action.
Choose one: Trash an Action card from the Supply, or gain an Action card from the trash.
QuoteHarbinger Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile.
You may put a card from it onto your deck.
@Seprix -- it's Harbinger, not Harbringer. I see that J Reggie already pointed it out, but I needed to mention it myself. :P Also note that the -g sound there is like in "binge".
QuoteHarbinger Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile.
You may put a card from it onto your deck.
I guess I'll count this as the Chancellor replacement? Not really similar at all, but they both interact with the discard pile, ha. Or maybe it's more like Adventurer, but with more flexibility (depending on size of discard pile).
QuoteMerchant Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
The first time you play a Silver this turn +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png).
I don't know about this one. My first impression is that this would be really easy to use, so it may as well just be a straight up Peddler for $3. Still, a restriction is a restriction.
Didn't really identify something as "the Woodcutter replacement", so Vassal can be it. They're both terminal Silver, sort of! (I know removals and replacements aren't supposed to match up perfectly.)
QuoteDiplomat Action/Reaction (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.
The top is an interesting parallel to Shanty Town. The reaction makes this the Secret Chamber replacement, and it seems like a good change. This version of the reaction leaves your hand 1 card smaller, but discarding instead of putting cards back on top is usually going to be better for you, I think.
QuoteSecret Passage Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.
Overall, I really, really like "put it anywhere in your deck" and I can't believe it didn't exist already.
QuoteLurker Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
+1 Action.
Choose one: Trash an Action card from the Supply, or gain an Action card from the trash.
I feel like this has to exist as a fan card somewhere already. It kind of makes me nervous, but I guess it's a good thing that it has some second-player advantage. If multiple players open with it, it'll be risky for the first person to play it to trash a good action card. I wonder how often the right move will be to open double Lurker (which, if successful, combine into "Gain any Action card from the Supply"). Probably not often, but... sometimes?
QuoteQuoteSecret Passage Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.
Overall, I really, really like "put it anywhere in your deck" and I can't believe it didn't exist already.
(Stash)
QuoteDiplomat Action/Reaction (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.
The top is an interesting parallel to Shanty Town. The reaction makes this the Secret Chamber replacement, and it seems like a good change. This version of the reaction leaves your hand 1 card smaller, but discarding instead of putting cards back on top is usually going to be better for you, I think.
I guess? The thing I like about Secret Chamber is its defense against deck-top attacks, and this doesn't really help with those.
I'm not going to miss Coppersmith. It mattered so rarely.
The biggest disappointment is that we didn't get a replacement for Saboteur. I liked it (and Swindler) because they add the extra challenge of having a deck with fluid components. But one is swingy, and the other weak.
I hope we see a comeback of the Sab replacement effect on a somewhat more viable card, because playing against saboteur was really fun (and most often successful), with a good deal of interesting replacement decisions.
I'm not going to miss Coppersmith. It mattered so rarely.
The biggest disappointment is that we didn't get a replacement for Saboteur. I liked it (and Swindler) because they add the extra challenge of having a deck with fluid components. But one is swingy, and the other weak.
I hope we see a comeback of the Sab replacement effect on a somewhat more viable card, because playing against saboteur was really fun (and most often successful), with a good deal of interesting replacement decisions.
I suspect it's because Swindler is the Saboteur replacement, and it was already in Intrigue.
So for Courtier, how many cards have three or more types? I can think of—
Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag, Bridge Troll, Enchantress
Caravan Guard
Followers
Cultist, Marauder
Knights
Distant Lands
Warrior, Soldier
Humble Castle, Opulent Castle, Small Castle
Any I'm missing?
So for Courtier, how many cards have three or more types? I can think of—
Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag, Bridge Troll, Enchantress
Caravan Guard
Followers
Cultist, Marauder
Knights
Distant Lands
Warrior, Soldier
Humble Castle, Opulent Castle, Small Castle
Any I'm missing?
I can't think of any others, but Dame Josephine gets an honourable mention for having four types.
So for Courtier, how many cards have three or more types? I can think of—
Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag, Bridge Troll, Enchantress
Caravan Guard
Followers
Cultist, Marauder
Knights
Distant Lands
Warrior, Soldier
Humble Castle, Opulent Castle, Small Castle
Any I'm missing?
I can't think of any others, but Dame Josephine gets an honourable mention for having four types.
Also, Estate as a Knight, Looter, Duration-Attack or Caravan Guard.
Quote[/u]Artisan Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png)
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5.
Put a card from you hand on to your deck.
Feast replacement? No self-trashing though, so this reminds me more of Workshop which hasn't[/b] been removed. The top-deck requirement is a cool, underused thing to include. The good thing about it is that it gives the player a more interesting decision than discarding, and it could be either a benefit or a drawback for the card depending on your hand and how you use it.
Oh, maybe this is also partially the Adventurer replacement -- $6 cost, thing goes into your hand.
Quote[/u]Artisan Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png)
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5.
Put a card from you hand on to your deck.
Feast replacement? No self-trashing though, so this reminds me more of Workshop which hasn't[/b] been removed. The top-deck requirement is a cool, underused thing to include. The good thing about it is that it gives the player a more interesting decision than discarding, and it could be either a benefit or a drawback for the card depending on your hand and how you use it.
Oh, maybe this is also partially the Adventurer replacement -- $6 cost, thing goes into your hand.
Considering Donald once said he "wanted a $6" in Base, i believe this is in fact partially an Adventurer replacement. First i felt having to put a card on top of your deck was a bit tacked on, but it made sense when i realized this basically gives you the freedom to just gain a $5 and put it on top of your deck. Interestingly, this also reduced terminal collision risk, as you can topdeck another terminal worst case.
Edit: Spelling mistakes. I hate those.
Just want to put in a (trans, nonbinary) voice in that I really appreciate they pronouns as default. Definitely will be purchasing a new full box for (nearly) this reason alone
Just want to put in a (trans, nonbinary) voice in that I really appreciate they pronouns as default. Definitely will be purchasing a new full box for (nearly) this reason alone
So except for Transmogrify, Artisan is the first card that allows you to gain directly to hand, right? That means that with a cost-reducer in play, and either Champion or Lost Arts, you can instantly drain the Artisan pile. And the Band of Misfits pile, if you have your -$2 token on Artisan.
So except for Transmogrify, Artisan is the first card that allows you to gain directly to hand, right? That means that with a cost-reducer in play, and either Champion or Lost Arts, you can instantly drain the Artisan pile. And the Band of Misfits pile, if you have your -$2 token on Artisan.
So except for Transmogrify, Artisan is the first card that allows you to gain directly to hand, right? That means that with a cost-reducer in play, and either Champion or Lost Arts, you can instantly drain the Artisan pile. And the Band of Misfits pile, if you have your -$2 token on Artisan.
As far as non-type-restricted gainers, the closest thing I think we had was Artificer, which needs a lot more cost reduction (and 2 copies of it initially) to self-pile. But remember that Artisan makes you topdeck a card from hand, so you may run out of handsize before you run out the Artisans.
What happens when I play a Merchant but have previously played a Silver this turn (Storyteller, Villa, Black Market)? US the bonus retroactive? Triggered by the next Silver play? Lost?
Yes. When you played your first Silver, you didn't have the Merchant around.This is also why Merchant says "first" rather than "next."
...So does this mean if you play Merchant ''after'' the "first Silver you play this turn" (via Storyteller or whatever), you don't get the bonus for the next Silver you play?
I can download the Intrigue rules, but not the Base rules, and the update rulebooks aren't up yet.
EDIT: The Base rules are working for me now.
But the cards deleted from Intrigue are:
Scout
Saboteur
Secret Chamber
Great Hall
Coppersmith
Tribute
And from Base are:
Chancellor
Woodcutter
Feast
Spy
Thief
Adventurer
I can download the Intrigue rules, but not the Base rules, and the update rulebooks aren't up yet.
EDIT: The Base rules are working for me now.
But the cards deleted from Intrigue are:
Scout
Saboteur
Secret Chamber
Great Hall
Coppersmith
Tribute
And from Base are:
Chancellor
Woodcutter
Feast
Spy
Thief
Adventurer
Without Woodcutter it is much harder to win with Gardens in a Base set only game. Sure, there are Bureaucrat and Workshop, but I still miss my Woodcutter.
I hope that the old cards will be available as a fan package.
Has anyone else noticed that there is both the palace(or a castle not sure witch) and the bridge are in the base cover art.I'm not seeing the Witch.
Will the update packs come with new card strips? (The thing in the middle of the box which had the names in alphabetical order.)
Also, when/where can we get these? everything I looked at just had a vague release date.
Will the update packs come with new card strips? (The thing in the middle of the box which had the names in alphabetical order.)
Also, when/where can we get these? everything I looked at just had a vague release date.
I guess, Lookout will be dropped from Seaside 2nd edition, because Sentry is now in the Base set.There are no plans to drop cards from other sets. Seaside will get updated wordings and layout, but not dropped/added cards.
Will the update packs come with new card strips? (The thing in the middle of the box which had the names in alphabetical order.)Yes, we call that an "inlay" and the update packs include one (folded).
Also, when/where can we get these? everything I looked at just had a vague release date.Jay anticipated shipping today (from RGG to distributors); I don't know how long it takes everyone after that though.
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!Pearl Diver, Navigator: These cards would be ones I'd replace, except, I couldn't, just as I couldn't rename Harem; they depict real people. Why not offer those real people new better art on their new card, you ask? That sounds good to me, and I thought it would get Harem renamed, but it didn't.
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!I agree with pearl diver, explorer, island, lookout, and navigator.
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!
Pearl Diver is fine, why do people complain about Pearl Diver
Embargo is quite useful!
Explorer: see Pearl Diver
Island: see Explorer
Pirate Ship will always have a special place in my heart, and can be quite decent sometimes
I hate Haven, but other people like it, so
Lookout: see Island
Smugglers is a good card, shut your mouth
yeah, Navigator is pretty crappy
Why not offer those real people new better art on their new card, you ask? That sounds good to me, and I thought it would get Harem renamed, but it didn't.
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
Actually, I'm most sad DA doesn't get the same treatment. Cultist needs to go or at least get a powered down version.
There is not much story. I said we could rename it. Jay said, but Valerie (who is depicted) loved getting that. I said, well she could be depicted in the new art. Jay wasn't interested.Why not offer those real people new better art on their new card, you ask? That sounds good to me, and I thought it would get Harem renamed, but it didn't.
Hum any chance we can get more details than that? What happened?
Honestly I view Swamp Hag as the fixed Embargo, rather than Tax.
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
Actually, I'm most sad DA doesn't get the same treatment. Cultist needs to go or at least get a powered down version.
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!
Horrible cards?!?! Haven happens to be one of my favorite cards, pearl diver isn't great, but has a unique quirkiness to it, island is a very interesting twist on trashing, lookout is a super speedy trasher that you have to be very careful with. Don't know what you mean.
*cough* Rebuild *cough*
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
Actually, I'm most sad DA doesn't get the same treatment. Cultist needs to go or at least get a powered down version.
*cough* Rebuild *cough*
Honestly rebuild strategic choices arn't even that hard to make.While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
Actually, I'm most sad DA doesn't get the same treatment. Cultist needs to go or at least get a powered down version.
*cough* Rebuild *cough*
Honestly, there's still a lot of stuff to think about with Rebuild. There's strategy in the Duchy dancing. How many Rebuilds do you get, when do you start buying Duchies instead, what other cards can/should you add to the mix. And it's always satisfying when you get a strategy that can beat Rebuild.
While we're on topic: The news that Hinterlands, Prosperity and Seaside don't get the same treatment was the saddest thing about the 2nd editions.
I really love the new Base and Intrigue, they probably improved the game soooo much.
Actually, I'm most sad DA doesn't get the same treatment. Cultist needs to go or at least get a powered down version.
*cough* Rebuild *cough*
Honestly, there's still a lot of stuff to think about with Rebuild. There's strategy in the Duchy dancing. How many Rebuilds do you get, when do you start buying Duchies instead, what other cards can/should you add to the mix. And it's always satisfying when you get a strategy that can beat Rebuild.
I preordered the second edition of Base and the update pack for Intrigue from Miniature Market. Does anyone have a good guess as to when they'll get them in stock and shipped out?
*This is an edit of Nolan and Mameluke's posts to make the cards more readable:
Base Cards:
Removed -- Adventurer, Chancellor, Feast, Spy, Thief, Woodcutter
New Cards
Artisan Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6f/Coin6.png/16px-Coin6.png)
Gain a card to your hand costing up to $5.
Put a card from you hand on to your deck.
Bandit Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Gain a Gold.
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck, trashes a revealed treasure other than Copper, and discards the rest.
Sentry Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 2 cards of your deck.
Trash and/or discard any number of them.
Put the rest back in any order.
Poacher Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
Discard a card per empty supply pile.
Harbinger Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look through your discard pile.
You may put a card from it onto your deck.
Merchant Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action
The first time you play a Silver this turn +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png).
Vassal Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
Discard the top card of your deck. If it is an Action card, you may play it.
Intrigue
Removed cards
Secret Chamber, Great Hall, Coppersmith, Scout, Saboteur, Tribute
New Cards
Courtier Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Reveal a card from your hand.
For each type it has (Action, Attack, etc.), choose one: +1 Action, or +1 Buy, or +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png), or gain a Gold.'
The choices must be different.
Patrol Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
+3 Cards.
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the Victory cards and Curse cards into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.
Replace Action/Attack (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) more than the trashed card. If the gained card is an Action or Treasure, put it onto your deck. If it's a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
Diplomat Action/Reaction (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards.
If you have 5 or fewer cards in hand (after drawing), +2 Actions
-----------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from a hand of 5 or more cards, to draw 2 cards then discard 3.
Mill Action/Victory (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
Worth 1 (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)
+1 Card
+1 Action.
You may discard 2 cards for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
Secret Passage Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Take a card from your hand and put it anywhere in your deck.
Lurker Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
+1 Action.
Choose one: Trash an Action card from the Supply, or gain an Action card from the trash.
I wish this were easier to find...Stuff one can find on the wiki
The revisions have been a crazy amount of work, not all of it done yet (I could be proofreading a revised rulebook as we speak); I do not imagine I will revisit this concept any time soon.
I wish this were easier to find...Stuff one can find on the wiki
This is all up on the wiki
So what exactly is the lady on the horse with the bow and arrow supposed to be Harbinging?
So what exactly is the lady on the horse with the bow and arrow supposed to be Harbinging?I THINK that's an army in the background. She's harbinging the approach of the army, and presumably the imminent destruction of Steve's little town. Poor Steve.
Why does Mill not use the "if you do" wording?
Rebuild games are like sorting socks. On a normal day, you can go shopping, or have a walk, or read a book, or paint the fence, and it's your choice. On sock ordering day, you order socks, and your choices get limited to whether you order by color, material or size. You still choose something, and maybe it's an art by itself, but that doesn't change that every sock-ordering day, you're forced to order socks.Who orders socks anyway? It's such a pointless exercise. They all fit both feet!
Rebuild games are like sorting socks. On a normal day, you can go shopping, or have a walk, or read a book, or paint the fence, and it's your choice. On sock ordering day, you order socks, and your choices get limited to whether you order by color, material or size. You still choose something, and maybe it's an art by itself, but that doesn't change that every sock-ordering day, you're forced to order socks.Who orders socks anyway? It's such a pointless exercise. They all fit both feet!
My concern is with all the pre-made sets of 10 from later boxes that include Dominion/Intrigue. Will new copies of later boxes (and, if so, from what date) have pre-sets that work with the 2nd editions of the first two boxes? Will they include both? As someone who is gradually working through all the boxes (I currently have Dominion, Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Cornucopia, and Guilds), I'm worried half my boxes will have suggested sets that work with the 1st editions of Dominion/Intrigue and half with the 2nd editions. That would frustrate me greatly.I do not have any dates. New rulebooks will include recommended sets with the new editions and not with the old editions.
Why does Mill not use the "if you do" wording?It's part of a general drive to simplify wordings. In the case of Mill, since you need two cards and might just have one, possibly it should still say "if you do," as Trading Post does. However it is much rarer to have a reason to want to discard your only remaining card (just drawn) to Mill despite not getting the $, than it is to want to play Trading Post with only one other card in hand.
It will one day be clearer as an army in the background.So what exactly is the lady on the horse with the bow and arrow supposed to be Harbinging?I THINK that's an army in the background. She's harbinging the approach of the army, and presumably the imminent destruction of Steve's little town. Poor Steve.
Why do the (online) rulebooks have terrible resolution?It will one day be clearer as an army in the background.So what exactly is the lady on the horse with the bow and arrow supposed to be Harbinging?I THINK that's an army in the background. She's harbinging the approach of the army, and presumably the imminent destruction of Steve's little town. Poor Steve.
My concern is with all the pre-made sets of 10 from later boxes that include Dominion/Intrigue. Will new copies of later boxes (and, if so, from what date) have pre-sets that work with the 2nd editions of the first two boxes? Will they include both? As someone who is gradually working through all the boxes (I currently have Dominion, Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Cornucopia, and Guilds), I'm worried half my boxes will have suggested sets that work with the 1st editions of Dominion/Intrigue and half with the 2nd editions. That would frustrate me greatly.I do not have any dates. New rulebooks will include recommended sets with the new editions and not with the old editions.
If you want the recommended sets with old cards I imagine the wiki will continue to have them. If you're worried about it you could go to the RGG site now and save the rulebook .pdfs for all the expansions.
But there are tons of awful cards in Seaside! There's Pearl Diver, Embargo, Explorer, Island, Pirate Ship, Haven, Lookout, Smugglers, and Navigator!On this forum there is a general tendency to dislike weak cards and I really don't understand why. Except the unbalanced ones like Scout, weak cards are fine and add sometimes a lot more subtlety than strong cards. And using them just a little could sometimes be the key to win the game. They are never going to be the most important engine pieces, but they still have an influence on how the game plays. And we need them, otherwise the game would always be too heavy. I would prefer so much a board with Witch + Navigator + Pearl Diver than, say, Witch + Goons + Tournament.
Why do the (online) rulebooks have terrible resolution?To have the file be a conveniently small size for a variety of users. The file at full resolution is much larger.
Is it possible a folder could be available for download? (Makes it easier on wero)Why do the (online) rulebooks have terrible resolution?To have the file be a conveniently small size for a variety of users. The file at full resolution is much larger.
Feel free to make your case to RGG; I am satisfied with the quality of rulebooks they provide.Is it possible a folder could be available for download? (Makes it easier on wero)Why do the (online) rulebooks have terrible resolution?To have the file be a conveniently small size for a variety of users. The file at full resolution is much larger.
Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Someone should update the wikipedia article.
Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Nope.
A few observations on Lurker (some of these have already been mentioned):
It can gain ... Grand Market with coppers in play, etc.
I don't presume that and don't know.Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Nope.
Presumably future copies of the Base Cards will come with it?
I don't presume that and don't know.Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Nope.
Presumably future copies of the Base Cards will come with it?
The Trash mat, it's not some awesome thing to desperately try to acquire. It's better than the Trash card, but the Trash section of the table has always worked for me. You can also take e.g. a Tavern mat and turn it over.
I am lazy.Someone should update the wikipedia article.
That someone could be you. Today is the first day of the rest of your life.
I don't presume that and don't know.Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Nope.
Presumably future copies of the Base Cards will come with it?
The Trash mat, it's not some awesome thing to desperately try to acquire. It's better than the Trash card, but the Trash section of the table has always worked for me. You can also take e.g. a Tavern mat and turn it over.
Saying that Woodcutter and Great Hall had to go because they were boring, is the same as saying that Village and Smithy should go too, to be replaced be more snazzy alternatives.
Saying that Woodcutter and Great Hall had to go because they were boring, is the same as saying that Village and Smithy should go too, to be replaced by more snazzy alternatives.
"Boring and not good" is not the same thing as "boring".
I don't presume that and don't know.Will the update pack for Dominion come with the trash mat?
Nope.
Presumably future copies of the Base Cards will come with it?
The Trash mat, it's not some awesome thing to desperately try to acquire. It's better than the Trash card, but the Trash section of the table has always worked for me. You can also take e.g. a Tavern mat and turn it over.
2) But in any case, Great Hall is good.Lies...
Amazon now has pre-orders for the 2nd edition update packs and 2nd edition of Intrigue. They don't have Dominion 2nd Edition listed yet.
Is "Gain a Treasure" too powerful for Bandit?
Ouch, full MSRP. $30 for 14 (140) cards isn't the best value. Is that just because it's new/preorder? All the other sets sell for a significant discount.
Ouch, full MSRP. $30 for 14 (140) cards isn't the best value. Is that just because it's new/preorder? All the other sets sell for a significant discount.
Yes, it will change. Amazon initially priced Empires at MSRP or something very close to it, and then the price dropped over time
The one issue I have with Theif's 'replacement', is you can't get non-base Treasures. That was sort of the advantage Theif had over Noble Brigand.. you could steal any Treasure.
Is "Gain a Treasure" too powerful for Bandit? Also, why not just have the trashing optional? Sometimes you may want to trash their Copper, though maybe those cases are rare enough to not make it worth it.
Ouch, full MSRP. $30 for 14 (140) cards isn't the best value. Is that just because it's new/preorder? All the other sets sell for a significant discount.
Yes, it will change. Amazon initially priced Empires at MSRP or something very close to it, and then the price dropped over time
Keep in mind, Prime shipping often makes up cost difference vs expedited shipping on other sites.
Also, I only see both Upgrade packs on there and Intrigue 2, no Dominon 2 yet?
Is "Gain a Treasure" too powerful for Bandit?
Way. "Gain a Treasure costing up to $6" seems fine though.
Is "Gain a Treasure" too powerful for Bandit?
Way. "Gain a Treasure costing up to $6" seems fine though.
I imagine the reason is because it's Base and you want to keep it simple.
Ouch, full MSRP. $30 for 14 (140) cards isn't the best value. Is that just because it's new/preorder? All the other sets sell for a significant discount.
Yes, it will change. Amazon initially priced Empires at MSRP or something very close to it, and then the price dropped over time
Keep in mind, Prime shipping often makes up cost difference vs expedited shipping on other sites.
Also, I only see both Upgrade packs on there and Intrigue 2, no Dominon 2 yet?
Go to Amazon, search "Dominion update pack" and both update packs will appear.
Ouch, full MSRP. $30 for 14 (140) cards isn't the best value. Is that just because it's new/preorder? All the other sets sell for a significant discount.
Yes, it will change. Amazon initially priced Empires at MSRP or something very close to it, and then the price dropped over time
Keep in mind, Prime shipping often makes up cost difference vs expedited shipping on other sites.
Also, I only see both Upgrade packs on there and Intrigue 2, no Dominon 2 yet?
Go to Amazon, search "Dominion update pack" and both update packs will appear.
He means Amazon is missing the new base set.
Courtier struck me as overpowered at first. It seems like it would still be a $5 if it was discard instead of reveal.
Courtier struck me as overpowered at first. It seems like it would still be a $5 if it was discard instead of reveal.
Courtier struck me as overpowered at first. It seems like it would still be a $5 if it was discard instead of reveal.
Really? If you don't have a multi-type card, the +1 Action is completely useless, the +1 Buy is expensive, the +$3 is a terminal Gold (not great), and the gain a gold is decent but kind of expensive. You really ned multi-type cards. And Courtier can't even be a Village, ever.
Diplomat is probably the worst of the replacement cards in my opinion. It's a bit confusing and has two inherently complex abilities. While it might be strong enough - another problem Secret Chamber had - it's not really better than it in terms of elegance.
About the best, i don't know. All do a very good job at replacing the original cards. I guess i like Mill because it's so pretty, but i have yet to play with it. I also like Bandit and pretty much all are better than the original. I also feel none of the old card ideas was completely lost, which is an effort that i appreciate. The cool thing is that now those ideas will actually matter.
For Lurker and Merchant, i'm not convinced they fit this early in the Dominion canon. Merchant would be fine in Intrigue, but Lurker seems like it belongs in Dark Ages. Probably this doesn't matter as much anymore now that all those expansions are available. Neither Intrigue nor Base need to play the role they played originally.
My thoughts on Courtier:But most cards with two types are actions, and you have to play Courtier first. So a lot of the time you'd choose +1 Action, +$3 or possibly +1 Action, gain a gold.
A $5 card that provided $3 and +buy would compare favorably with Wine Merchant.
A $5 card that provided $3 and a Gold gain would compare very favorably with Explorer.
On most boards, Courtier is better than either of those cards, because it can trivially be either, or one of the other four combination of two options. Occasionally, in the presence of cards with three or more types, it can be great (non-terminal $3 and buy is the safe combination, but sometimes the Gold gain is really valuable). Even when it misses, it isn't horrible. A terminal Gold or Gold-gainer is sometimes good enough, especially early in the game (when Courtier is more likely to miss).
Courtier is primarily a non-attack payload card, which tend to be unpopular, but it is one of the strongest in that category. I think it might be around the power level of Merchant Guild, but time will tell.
In all of Dominion (post-second editions), there are:
180 cards with only one type.
73 cards with two types (counting Catapult and Tournament).
10 cards with three or more types (counting Castles).
But most cards with two types are actions, and you have to play Courtier first. So a lot of the time you'd choose +1 Action, +$3 or possibly +1 Action, gain a gold.
In all of Dominion (post-second editions), there are:
180 cards with only one type.
73 cards with two types (counting Catapult and Tournament).
10 cards with three or more types (counting Castles).
Which are the 10 cards? I got 9: Swamp Hag, Bridge Troll, Haunted Woods, Knights, Cultist, Marauder, Caravan Guard, Distant Lands, Castles.
In all of Dominion (post-second editions), there are:
180 cards with only one type.
73 cards with two types (counting Catapult and Tournament).
10 cards with three or more types (counting Castles).
Which are the 10 cards? I got 9: Swamp Hag, Bridge Troll, Haunted Woods, Knights, Cultist, Marauder, Caravan Guard, Distant Lands, Castles.
Enchantress.
RGG has set this Monday as the date distributors can send stuff out.
ELM printed them! And sent them to RGG. And sent some copies to check to me, I have had those for a few weeks now.RGG has set this Monday as the date distributors can send stuff out.
Okay, I was confused on that. By "send them out this past Monday" I thought that meant they'd be at FLGSs by now. But they have to go to a secondary distributor first?
Diplomat is probably the worst of the replacement cards in my opinion. It's a bit confusing and has two inherently complex abilities. While it might be strong enough - another problem Secret Chamber had - it's not really better than it in terms of elegance.
About the best, i don't know. All do a very good job at replacing the original cards. I guess i like Mill because it's so pretty, but i have yet to play with it. I also like Bandit and pretty much all are better than the original. I also feel none of the old card ideas was completely lost, which is an effort that i appreciate. The cool thing is that now those ideas will actually matter.
For Lurker and Merchant, i'm not convinced they fit this early in the Dominion canon. Merchant would be fine in Intrigue, but Lurker seems like it belongs in Dark Ages. Probably this doesn't matter as much anymore now that all those expansions are available. Neither Intrigue nor Base need to play the role they played originally.
I agree with most of what you said, except that none of the old card ideas were lost. That's not the case at all. I assume you mean considering all cards across Dominion (otherwise even Adventurer is completely lost), in which case Coppersmith, Saboteur, Feast, and arguably Tribute are lost. For Coppersmith we have a little bit in Merchant maybe, and vaguely in Bank, but not really. For Feast, we have other cards that gain $5s, but none that are oneshots that cost less. For Saboteur there is nothing. For Tribute Courtier is pretty different, Ironmonger is actually closer (it can give you +2 Actions at least).
I'm not sure if someone has already mentioned this, but something I noticed is that the symbol/watermark for the second editions is different from the first.That was mentioned by donald very early on in the discussion
Coppersmith and Merchant both increase the money you get from a specific Treasure. They play very different, but i never claimed they didn't. The main concept estays.
Saboteur trashes good cards from your opponents' decks. Knights also do that, but solve Saboteur's main problems: Being weak and trashing Provinces.
Feast can easily be replaced by Death Cart imo. Just that Death Cart can stay around and hit even more than $5. Close enough for me. Also, there are now Banquetand Ball, which also offer $5s for less money. Edit: Ball costs $5 and is kind of a reverse Feast, sorry 'bout that.
Tribute plays differently than Courier, but both implement the concept of rewarding you for types. Courier just has better control. I like that Lurker was added to include the player interaction Tribute used to offer.
For the 2nd editions, how many of the cards that were kept have changed art? It looks like moat got some color added to it. Are there others?Moat is the only card with changed art in the 2E versions. Well not counting the base cards, which all have art now (and aren't identical to the base cards, including nudging down some of the VP card art in order to fit the VP). And not counting the trash.
For the 2nd editions, how many of the cards that were kept have changed art? It looks like moat got some color added to it. Are there others?Moat is the only card with changed art in the 2E versions. Well not counting the base cards, which all have art now (and aren't identical to the base cards, including nudging down some of the VP card art in order to fit the VP). And not counting the trash.
Here's a thought: What if Vagrant and Lurker switched places? Would they match their sets more then? Vagrant can be scout-ish in cleaning up the top deck and picking up vp hybrids, and Lurker basically belongs in dark ages.
One card will be getting new art, Platinum.Oh man, I forgot about that when answering that Moat question.
Do the update packs contain randomizer cards for the new cards?Yes.
The secret history is up in case someone didn't see it: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16338.0
As the 2nd editions get out and about, it's going to be harder and harder to get copies of the 12 removed cards. I know what I'd be like if I'd just found dominion right now, I'd start with the new editions, but, over time, I'd want to play with those 12 cards. Maybe they aren't that good, but I'd feel I'd want to decide that for myself.
So, I was wondering if there are any plans afoot to put out a "The lost cards" pack - just a little sort-of-expansion that gives you the 12 removed cards, for the people (like me) who like to have everything. It would be the crappiest dominion expansion ever, but hell I know I'd happily fork out a tenner for it if I had the 2nd editions. Variety is the spice of life, and some of those removed cards (woodcutter and chancellor) have featured importantly in some very fun games I've played. I know that the reason they're gone is sound - they aren't interesting very often, generally they're pretty much pointless on the board they're on - but in certain cases they can still be fun and important, so I'd want them involved in my randomisation so they could pop up every now and then.
I have very fond memories of winning a game with a treasureless engine of Library/Festival/Chancellor - I wouldn't want that oppurtunity denied to anyone :p
So with no discard attack, Diplomat is a Moat, which is bad.
With a normal Militia attack, Diplomat changes into a Necropolis, after letting you cycle and nullifying the attack. (You will have 4 other cards, half totally random and half being the best 2 out of 6 cards.)
Is that right?
I don't think it's quite the same as "turning into a Necropolis" since it turns into a Necropolis only if you treat the Militia attack as something that didn't happen. If you account for the attack it's more of a Lost City + cycling.
So with no discard attack, Diplomat is a Moat, which is bad.
As the 2nd editions get out and about, it's going to be harder and harder to get copies of the 12 removed cards. I know what I'd be like if I'd just found dominion right now, I'd start with the new editions, but, over time, I'd want to play with those 12 cards. Maybe they aren't that good, but I'd feel I'd want to decide that for myself.There are no such plans, and I hope there never are.
So, I was wondering if there are any plans afoot to put out a "The lost cards" pack - just a little sort-of-expansion that gives you the 12 removed cards, for the people (like me) who like to have everything. It would be the crappiest dominion expansion ever, but hell I know I'd happily fork out a tenner for it if I had the 2nd editions. Variety is the spice of life, and some of those removed cards (woodcutter and chancellor) have featured importantly in some very fun games I've played. I know that the reason they're gone is sound - they aren't interesting very often, generally they're pretty much pointless on the board they're on - but in certain cases they can still be fun and important, so I'd want them involved in my randomisation so they could pop up every now and then.
I have very fond memories of winning a game with a treasureless engine of Library/Festival/Chancellor - I wouldn't want that oppurtunity denied to anyone :p
I just got the cards today. All of the art is pristine. No bad card art. The worst might be Patrol.
I just got the cards today. All of the art is pristine. No bad card art. The worst might be Patrol.Patrol is better than Sentry.
I just got the cards today. All of the art is pristine. No bad card art. The worst might be Patrol.Patrol is better than Sentry.
blasphemerI just got the cards today. All of the art is pristine. No bad card art. The worst might be Patrol.Patrol is better than Sentry.
Sentry is great. It might beat Pawn even.
Got my copies. My Intrigue had 11 Swindlers and 9 Trading Post.
Got my copies. My Intrigue had 11 Swindlers and 9 Trading Post.
Saboteur strikes back!
Got my copies. My Intrigue had 11 Swindlers and 9 Trading Post.
Saboteur strikes back!
This deserves more upvotes.
Got my copies. My Intrigue had 11 Swindlers and 9 Trading Post.
Saboteur strikes back!
This deserves more upvotes.
It's funny because Swindler costs $2 less than Trading Post!
All updated Base card images (and the trash mat) are up. Starting on Intrigue now.For some reason unless if you click on the image it is still the old version.
EDIT: Everything is up!
As the 2nd editions get out and about, it's going to be harder and harder to get copies of the 12 removed cards. I know what I'd be like if I'd just found dominion right now, I'd start with the new editions, but, over time, I'd want to play with those 12 cards. Maybe they aren't that good, but I'd feel I'd want to decide that for myself.
So, I was wondering if there are any plans afoot to put out a "The lost cards" pack - just a little sort-of-expansion that gives you the 12 removed cards, for the people (like me) who like to have everything. It would be the crappiest dominion expansion ever, but hell I know I'd happily fork out a tenner for it if I had the 2nd editions. Variety is the spice of life, and some of those removed cards (woodcutter and chancellor) have featured importantly in some very fun games I've played. I know that the reason they're gone is sound - they aren't interesting very often, generally they're pretty much pointless on the board they're on - but in certain cases they can still be fun and important, so I'd want them involved in my randomisation so they could pop up every now and then.
I have very fond memories of winning a game with a treasureless engine of Library/Festival/Chancellor - I wouldn't want that oppurtunity denied to anyone :p
As the 2nd editions get out and about, it's going to be harder and harder to get copies of the 12 removed cards. I know what I'd be like if I'd just found dominion right now, I'd start with the new editions, but, over time, I'd want to play with those 12 cards. Maybe they aren't that good, but I'd feel I'd want to decide that for myself.
So, I was wondering if there are any plans afoot to put out a "The lost cards" pack - just a little sort-of-expansion that gives you the 12 removed cards, for the people (like me) who like to have everything. It would be the crappiest dominion expansion ever, but hell I know I'd happily fork out a tenner for it if I had the 2nd editions. Variety is the spice of life, and some of those removed cards (woodcutter and chancellor) have featured importantly in some very fun games I've played. I know that the reason they're gone is sound - they aren't interesting very often, generally they're pretty much pointless on the board they're on - but in certain cases they can still be fun and important, so I'd want them involved in my randomisation so they could pop up every now and then.
I have very fond memories of winning a game with a treasureless engine of Library/Festival/Chancellor - I wouldn't want that oppurtunity denied to anyone :p
Years in the future, I will pull out my old pile of Scouts. Old, dusty, but original. I'll sell it just like those old comics and get millions of dollars.
I really hate the art for sentry.
I really hate the art for sentry.
All updated Base card images (and the trash mat) are up. Starting on Intrigue now.For some reason unless if you click on the image it is still the old version.
EDIT: Everything is up!
Upgrade does seem to be missing though.
how can she even hunt with her hair covering her eyes?
I must compliment the artist for the best depiction of fasans that I have ever seen in a board game.
how can she even hunt with her hair covering her eyes?
Her hair is covering her left eye so she can see straight down the arrow with her right.
I must compliment the artist for the best depiction of fasans that I have ever seen in a board game.
Pheasants?
Tokens, mats, Events and Landmarks, and rules moved to the new box:
[picture]
Tokens, mats, Events and Landmarks, and rules moved to the new box:
[picture]
Wow, that trash mat is gigantic. I'm kinda turned off by that, but I guess it allows you to make multiple trash piles if doing so would be helpful (fan out trashed treasures for forager, put 3 to 5 cost cards in their own pile for Graverobber, etc.)
I'll say it for everyone: it wasn't the greatest card in the world; it was just Tribute.
Tokens, mats, Events and Landmarks, and rules moved to the new box:
[picture]
Wow, that trash mat is gigantic. I'm kinda turned off by that, but I guess it allows you to make multiple trash piles if doing so would be helpful (fan out trashed treasures for forager, put 3 to 5 cost cards in their own pile for Graverobber, etc.)
I haven't gotten the sets yet. Is the trash mat bigger than tavern mats?Yes. You can see both the tavern mat and trash mat in the last picture from werothegreats post above.
I haven't gotten the sets yet. Is the trash mat bigger than tavern mats?
I haven't gotten the sets yet. Is the trash mat bigger than tavern mats?Yes. You can see both the tavern mat and trash mat in the last picture from werothegreats post above.
As the 2nd editions get out and about, it's going to be harder and harder to get copies of the 12 removed cards. I know what I'd be like if I'd just found dominion right now, I'd start with the new editions, but, over time, I'd want to play with those 12 cards. Maybe they aren't that good, but I'd feel I'd want to decide that for myself.There are no such plans, and I hope there never are.
So, I was wondering if there are any plans afoot to put out a "The lost cards" pack - just a little sort-of-expansion that gives you the 12 removed cards, for the people (like me) who like to have everything. It would be the crappiest dominion expansion ever, but hell I know I'd happily fork out a tenner for it if I had the 2nd editions. Variety is the spice of life, and some of those removed cards (woodcutter and chancellor) have featured importantly in some very fun games I've played. I know that the reason they're gone is sound - they aren't interesting very often, generally they're pretty much pointless on the board they're on - but in certain cases they can still be fun and important, so I'd want them involved in my randomisation so they could pop up every now and then.
I have very fond memories of winning a game with a treasureless engine of Library/Festival/Chancellor - I wouldn't want that oppurtunity denied to anyone :p
Here's how things look from my perspective: there are also no plans to publish all of the outtakes that weren't good enough. An endless parade of unpublished cards. I have plenty of fond memories there too.
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
That actually sounds cool, 3 cards with different art that all say "empty pile" or so. Of course, it's not much for a promo, maybe if they bundled it with a purple tavern mat and tokens....I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aesthetical content as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
Asthetical is not a word. Not trying to insult your intelligence, it just drives me crazy when people append -al to words to make them adjectives when the word is already an adjective.
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
Asthetical is not a word. Not trying to insult your intelligence, it just drives me crazy when people append -al to words to make them adjectives when the word is already an adjective.
Thanks. When one learns a language by copying others some errors slip through and risk never being fixed. It's great to have them corrected.
People seem down on Mill.
I don't get it. Surely it's the ultimate Alt-VP rush card. Gardens or Silk Road rushes are the ultimate time where "discard 2 cards for +2 coin" is a huge benefit, and Mill is a cantrip victory point, which is exactly what you want to be rushing in those sort of situations. I see Mill as maybe the elite Alt-VP rush card. Combining it with Silk Road in a rush would just be immense.
I think Mill is almost as good as Horse Traders at hitting $5 in a deck where you want to do that (Duke, IGG, etc), plus it gives you a VP which is nice in those decks, and it's also more versatile.
Horse traders isn't the best card ever.I think Mill is almost as good as Horse Traders at hitting $5 in a deck where you want to do that (Duke, IGG, etc), plus it gives you a VP which is nice in those decks, and it's also more versatile.
Horse Traders: +$3, discard two, +buy
Mill: +1 Card, +$2, discard two
It cycles, and it is optional as well. Mill is fantastic, and I have no idea why people say it is weak.
Horse traders isn't the best card ever.I think Mill is almost as good as Horse Traders at hitting $5 in a deck where you want to do that (Duke, IGG, etc), plus it gives you a VP which is nice in those decks, and it's also more versatile.
Horse Traders: +$3, discard two, +buy
Mill: +1 Card, +$2, discard two
It cycles, and it is optional as well. Mill is fantastic, and I have no idea why people say it is weak.
A big part of why it sucks is because it's a terminal and because it requires you to discard. Mill is neither of those things!
A big part of why it sucks is because it's a terminal and because it requires you to discard. Mill is neither of those things!
A big part of why it costs $4 is the reaction
A big part of why it sucks is because it's a terminal and because it requires you to discard. Mill is neither of those things!
A big part of why it costs $4 is the reaction
I'd go so far as to say that the absence of any (reasonably strong) attack buffs Horse Trader enough to overshadow Mill.
I'd go so far as to say that the absence of any (reasonably strong) attack buffs Horse Trader enough to overshadow Mill.
I think you meant presence here. :)
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
Asthetical is not a word. Not trying to insult your intelligence, it just drives me crazy when people append -al to words to make them adjectives when the word is already an adjective.
I have always hated Tribute. It just felt too much to me like an attack that I couldn't react to or prevent in any way.
I keep three sleeved blanks to mark empty piles. It has a nice visual impact.
I love this idea.
EDIT: Now I wish I'd thought of this as something to include in the second editions.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
(sorry for the necro, I only noticed your edit now)
Asthetical is not a word. Not trying to insult your intelligence, it just drives me crazy when people append -al to words to make them adjectives when the word is already an adjective.
You're just being pedantical.
QuoteI have always hated Tribute. It just felt too much to me like an attack that I couldn't react to or prevent in any way.
It is (was) absolutely, unequivocally not an attack. In fact, it helps you by cycling your cards more quickly.
This is a critically important thing to understand, because it helps you mentally adjust your attitude toward randomness. What you're doing is "counting the hits" which is the same fallacy that causes people to believe in psychic powers or assign magical explanations to coincidences. You only remember the times that Tribute "skipped" your good cards, and ignore all the times it skipped cards you didn't want, or got you to your good cards one turn quicker, or triggered a reshuffle so that you had access to a recent purchase sooner.
It's the same reason you don't play Millstone in a Magic deck unless your win condition is, specifically, decking your opponent. Otherwise, all you're doing is swapping out one set of random cards for another set of random cards and it has absolutely no effect. Magic newbies who believe that Millstone is a denial card will point to the cards in your discard and say "see, I milled your [X], therefore I denied you that card." No, you didn't. Shuffle luck denied me that card. It had just as much chance of being at the bottom.
It's the same reason Rabble "skipping" cards is absolutely NOT part of the attack. Only putting green on top is relevant in a Rabble attack. The card cycling is actually helpful. I swear I'm going to have to start smacking people at the table if they keep saying "Oh, no! You Rabbled my [X]!" like it mattered. If I've trashed my Estates and I'm engine-building, I BEG people to Rabble so I get my purchases quicker.
Rabble is about as likely to make your opponent skip their Traveller as to make them fast-forward to it, but the two results are not equivalent.
QuoteRabble is about as likely to make your opponent skip their Traveller as to make them fast-forward to it, but the two results are not equivalent.
Ah, but they ARE equivalent, in that they are, as you say, equally likely. Therefore, the play of Rabble is not the determining factor that denied you your Champion. Shuffle luck is. The shuffle was just as likely to have put it at the bottom as in Rabble range, but players react as though it was the Rabble that denied them their Champion. It wasn't. It was the shuffle. Yes, the result is the same, but it's the reaction that's wrong, in that it's a mental error that causes people to believe that Rabble's cycling is part of the attack.
And, in fact, in a Traveler game, Rabble is usually more helpful than not, because it gets you back to your upgraded Travelers more quickly so that you can upgrade them again. Travelers love cycling, and Rabble cycles your opponents!
PoacherThis seems weird (though I kinda get the psychological effect). I think with everyone having the same amount of Poachers, you generally want to be the one that ends a pile first. It's like inverse City: With City, you don't want to end a pile first beause then your opponent will be profiting first; with Poachers, they will suffer first.
Very interesting card. I watched several players buy at least two, and nobody wanted to be the first to pile something out. We ended up with several one-card piles. I'm going to watch for TfB the next time it appears, because I feel like I might start the Poacher rush, then TfB mine and buy the last one just to inflict Oases on opponents.
But it was Rabble that denied their Champion.QuoteRabble is about as likely to make your opponent skip their Traveller as to make them fast-forward to it, but the two results are not equivalent.
Ah, but they ARE equivalent, in that they are, as you say, equally likely. Therefore, the play of Rabble is not the determining factor that denied you your Champion. Shuffle luck is. The shuffle was just as likely to have put it at the bottom as in Rabble range, but players react as though it was the Rabble that denied them their Champion. It wasn't. It was the shuffle. Yes, the result is the same, but it's the reaction that's wrong, in that it's a mental error that causes people to believe that Rabble's cycling is part of the attack.
And, in fact, in a Traveler game, Rabble is usually more helpful than not, because it gets you back to your upgraded Travelers more quickly so that you can upgrade them again. Travelers love cycling, and Rabble cycles your opponents!Aye, I agree, but sometimes the pain of luckily skipping a Traveller can be worth the risk of free cycling your opponent.
Well, it could make a nice promo, maybe offering it bundled with a "real" promo card-shaped thing.
A lot of games offer purely aestheticalcontent as promos, and it usually seems to go over quite well.
Asthetical is not a word. Not trying to insult your intelligence, it just drives me crazy when people append -al to words to make them adjectives when the word is already an adjective.
You're just being pedantical.
That joke is simply terrifical.
Sentry
I had high hopes for this card, but I'm having second thoughts. At first, I though it would be a better trasher than Junk Dealer, and it emphatically is NOT. It has only two cards to choose from, and JD has five. Getting it to match up with junk is surprisingly difficult, especially because it's a $5 and you've bought four keepers by the time you play it even once.
Sentry
I had high hopes for this card, but I'm having second thoughts. At first, I though it would be a better trasher than Junk Dealer, and it emphatically is NOT. It has only two cards to choose from, and JD has five. Getting it to match up with junk is surprisingly difficult, especially because it's a $5 and you've bought four keepers by the time you play it even once.
I concede that it is stronger earlier than later (as are all trashers), but it is still superior to Junk Dealer by a wide margin. Trash two vs trash one is powerful, plus I'm not sacrificing buying power the turn I play it like Chapel or Ambassador, for instance.
Sentry
I had high hopes for this card, but I'm having second thoughts. At first, I though it would be a better trasher than Junk Dealer, and it emphatically is NOT. It has only two cards to choose from, and JD has five. Getting it to match up with junk is surprisingly difficult, especially because it's a $5 and you've bought four keepers by the time you play it even once.
I concede that it is stronger earlier than later (as are all trashers), but it is still superior to Junk Dealer by a wide margin. Trash two vs trash one is powerful, plus I'm not sacrificing buying power the turn I play it like Chapel or Ambassador, for instance.
You're really not sacrificing buying power with Junk Dealer either, and you really don't trash two cards THAT often with Sentry. I thought it would be superior to Junk Dealer too, but it really doesn't seem that way unless you have some way of controlling the top of your deck.
I've also found Sentry to be less powerful than it first appears. At first it's faster than upgrade or junk dealer, but becomes slower once your deck is less than 50% junk. I reached the 50% point faster than I expected, by the 4th shuffle? Which means you only get about one play of Sentry where it is the better trasher.but sentry gets you too that point way faster than jd.
Of course Junk Dealer eventually becomes a dead card, where Sentry is at least a mini cartographer. All in all I think it is about the same level as Junk Dealer.
I've also found Sentry to be less powerful than it first appears. At first it's faster than upgrade or junk dealer, but becomes slower once your deck is less than 50% junk. I reached the 50% point faster than I expected, by the 4th shuffle? Which means you only get about one play of Sentry where it is the better trasher.but sentry gets you too that point way faster than jd.
Of course Junk Dealer eventually becomes a dead card, where Sentry is at least a mini cartographer. All in all I think it is about the same level as Junk Dealer.
PoacherThis seems weird (though I kinda get the psychological effect). I think with everyone having the same amount of Poachers, you generally want to be the one that ends a pile first. It's like inverse City: With City, you don't want to end a pile first beause then your opponent will be profiting first; with Poachers, they will suffer first.
Very interesting card. I watched several players buy at least two, and nobody wanted to be the first to pile something out. We ended up with several one-card piles. I'm going to watch for TfB the next time it appears, because I feel like I might start the Poacher rush, then TfB mine and buy the last one just to inflict Oases on opponents.
PoacherThis seems weird (though I kinda get the psychological effect). I think with everyone having the same amount of Poachers, you generally want to be the one that ends a pile first. It's like inverse City: With City, you don't want to end a pile first beause then your opponent will be profiting first; with Poachers, they will suffer first.
Very interesting card. I watched several players buy at least two, and nobody wanted to be the first to pile something out. We ended up with several one-card piles. I'm going to watch for TfB the next time it appears, because I feel like I might start the Poacher rush, then TfB mine and buy the last one just to inflict Oases on opponents.
This doesn't disqualify your point at all, but it's also worth keeping in mind that this means that you're spending that turn buying a worse card and you'll have one more downgraded-Poacher in your deck.
It'd be funny to play a game with poacher and City. As soon as your cities start drawing, your poachers start discarding!
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
That joke is simply terrifical.
It'd be funny to play a game with poacher and City. As soon as your cities start drawing, your poachers start discarding!
I think that the cares about empty piles mechanic is very clever and worth exploring. Still not sure if it is a good fit for base though...will have to see when I (finally) get the upgrade pack friday.
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Poacher is very good. Imagine all those times you open Oasis for cycling.
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Poacher is very good. Imagine all those times you open Oasis for cycling.
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Not treasury?
Shit I'd open Poacher / Oasis on many boards. Mainly boards with $5 cost trashers and strong engines without a ton of draw to spare.Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Poacher is very good. Imagine all those times you open Oasis for cycling.
So Oasis' position as a good opening cycler has been... poached?
Also, just now realizing that people have been pointing to poacher as evidence that a fixed-cost Peddler is a bit too strong for $4 but too weak for $5...I point you all to Baker as the original evidence of that.
Poacher: This is in a player interaction slot, vacated by Spy. I thought of having some vanilla bonuses with the penalty of discarding a card per empty pile. The vanilla bonuses had to be essentially fair at the price of the card, since you might never empty a pile until the game was over. So really it required a vanilla card I hadn't made yet. Well there was one of those, and it was +1 Card +1 Action +$1 for $4. So there it is. Avoiding making that card all these years finally paid off.
Harbinger sentry doesn't look good or am I overlooking something?
QuoteHarbinger sentry doesn't look good or am I overlooking something?
Oh, it's not exactly good. It's just interesting. Bad Poacher/Harbinger/Sentry is probably one of the most convoluted "trash one card from your hand" plays I can think of. But it did actually happen a few times in a game with those cards and no cards that actually trash from your hand.
So far, Harbinger has been most useful in slogs, and Sentry has been most useful for filtering and topdecking (such as putting a cantrip or other action on top for Vassal, my second-favorite new card.)
(Hmm. Puzzle idea? Most convoluted "trash one card from your hand" play. No using the same action twice.)
you have to get borrow and villa in the mean time.QuoteHarbinger sentry doesn't look good or am I overlooking something?
Oh, it's not exactly good. It's just interesting. Bad Poacher/Harbinger/Sentry is probably one of the most convoluted "trash one card from your hand" plays I can think of. But it did actually happen a few times in a game with those cards and no cards that actually trash from your hand.
So far, Harbinger has been most useful in slogs, and Sentry has been most useful for filtering and topdecking (such as putting a cantrip or other action on top for Vassal, my second-favorite new card.)
(Hmm. Puzzle idea? Most convoluted "trash one card from your hand" play. No using the same action twice.)
But how does it work at all? Harbinger puts the card on your deck. Sentry then draws it.
But how does it work at all? Harbinger puts the card on your deck. Sentry then draws it.
But how does it work at all? Harbinger puts the card on your deck. Sentry then draws it.I assumed whoever said that meant to say Secret Passage and Sentry.
Hopefully the update packs are easy to get in Canada!
I think I'll apply errata with stickers to my binder pockets, so when a card is taken out I can remind the players.
Yes, I am also in Canada and would buy the update packs on the spot.
I bought the update packs at my local game store here in Montreal. Yay for distribution in Canada!
Sentry continues to underwhelm me as a trasher, and I keep losing games by getting it late or not investing as much in better trashing.
Why are we calling sentry he?
Why are we calling sentry he? I mean there's even a woman on the card. Are we going to have the discussion about genders of cards again?Why does this even matter.
JD is good because it gives you a coin in return for the card you lose from your hand due to the trashing. Sentry is good because it never makes you lose a card from your hand in the first place. In both cases, this means that you get to trash and you get to buy something decent on the same turn.
Why are we calling sentry he? I mean there's even a woman on the card. Are we going to have the discussion about genders of cards again?
Why are we calling sentry he? I mean there's even a woman on the card. Are we going to have the discussion about genders of cards again?
Let's not continue this discussion before posts start getting removed again.
Anyhow, I've been playing with Sentry kind of over and over again to get a hang of when it's Really Good and if there's anything weird about it. It's just kind of a meh trasher. Upgrade and JD are better, really, but Sentry is far better to open with. Anything to load your discard pile or deck with junk helps it though.
Anyhow, I've been playing with Sentry kind of over and over again to get a hang of when it's Really Good and if there's anything weird about it. It's just kind of a meh trasher. Upgrade and JD are better, really, but Sentry is far better to open with. Anything to load your discard pile or deck with junk helps it though.
I think what a lot of people miss is that it isn't just a trasher, it is also a mini cartographer.
Sentry is the first ever true cantrip trasher. While it's swingier than most, unlike every other trasher, once you have the Sentry it costs you literally nothing to trash cards. I imagine it's an elite opener and a strong turn 3-4 buy.
Sentry is the first ever true cantrip trasher. While it's swingier than most, unlike every other trasher, once you have the Sentry it costs you literally nothing to trash cards. I imagine it's an elite opener and a strong turn 3-4 buy.
Junk Dealer?
JD is good because it gives you a coin in return for the card you lose from your hand due to the trashing. Sentry is good because it never makes you lose a card from your hand in the first place. In both cases, this means that you get to trash and you get to buy something decent on the same turn.
That's all correct (except that you might not get to trash with Sentry), but I was only talking about how efficient these cards are at trashing, as a reply to the previous post from Seprix etc.
Sentry is the first ever true cantrip trasher. While it's swingier than most, unlike every other trasher, once you have the Sentry it costs you literally nothing to trash cards. I imagine it's an elite opener and a strong turn 3-4 buy.
Junk Dealer?
Junk dealer also reduces handsize. Sentry doesn't.
I mean, yes. I'm not electing to skip buying it because I don't think it's good later, so I'm still using it. But, it just hasn't been good for me if I don't open with it. It trashes like maybe 3 cards.
And really the Cartographer thing barely helps - you either want the card out of your deck or you want it in your hand until the late game, and by then either you got thin enough that it doesn't matter or you draw it at the end of your line anyway.
A lot of differentiating opinions on Sentry. I am willing to gut my initial opinions that Sentry is one of the best trashers for now because of this, but I would like to play with it some more before declaring it great or not so great.Well, I had one game where I got sentry out of the black market deck, and that near won the game for me. Like any card, it depends on the board, obviously, but this provides a bit of a more objective view on its power in a vacuum. Granted, it will never be in a vacuum, but there you go.
Quick question. Are there any plans to update the set of base cards with the larger symbols for treasure and vp? I'd love another set of base cards with the better design like in second edition base set.Yes, Base Cards will be updated, at a time based on when supplies run out and printer availability.
I just got an email from the German publisher saying that a German release of second edition cars is currently being planned, and will happen around fall 2017
I'm just going to talk about Scout more now. People didn't care about Van Gogh or Jesus (to some extent) when they were alive, did they? It was only until they were dead that everyone was like 'Nice paintings bro' or 'Nice religion bro.'Nice religion bro.
So this isn't over. This is just the start.