Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Timethief on September 12, 2016, 06:57:03 am
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I know, Empires only is out for a few month now, however I was asking myself if there was are plans for the next ones, and what form it will have.
My two cents:
-I would like an expansion utilizing potions again
-I would really like an expansion where the existing themes are reimbursed, aka an expansion containing cards that haven't made the cut in existing expansions or would add in the existing theme. More travelers from adventures, more tokens for teacher, more debt cards etc etc.
-A promo card for those owning all expansions?
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The second two are things that Donald has said won't happen. And the first one probably won't happen for a while at least.
(Also, sorry but is this an article?)
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Considering Adventures revisited Seaside themes, and Empires revisited Prosperity themes, I think we could be looking at something which doesn't bring only completely new things (like Dark Ages) but instead reinforces previous concepts. Maybe coin tokens, Looters, Potions? I guess we will see, probably next year.
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I wouldn't mind if the next expansion would take a bit longer, to give us some more time to get acquainted with the Empires cards. (I'm still waiting for the release of Empires in my native language...)
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-I would really like an expansion where the existing themes are reimbursed, aka an expansion containing cards that haven't made the cut in existing expansions or would add in the existing theme. More travelers from adventures, more tokens for teacher, more debt cards etc etc.
Why would you want an expansion of outtakes? I mean those cards were cut for good reasons.
There can't be any more tokens for Teacher without errata for Teacher. Teacher specifies right on the card which tokens you can move with it.
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I personally am kind of hoping for an unlikely Dominion: Rebuilt.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly, and it's probably a very bad idea money-wise, but I can dream. A set with Feast for 2$, some sort of working Adventurer and Thief, a Rebuild that doesn't suck, Cultist with an "or" clause, errataed Possession, fast Scrying pool, cheaper Familiar, maybe even all of Alchemy rebuffed plus some.
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A reverse traveller (an expensive traveller that gets cheaper, but not necessarily worse) would be a cool idea
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Why is this in dominion articles?
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a Rebuild that doesn't suck
Rebuild doesn't suck. Actually, it's a pretty powerful card.
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a Rebuild that doesn't suck
Rebuild doesn't suck. Actually, it's a pretty powerful card.
"the fun out of Dominion" was implied.
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-I would really like an expansion where the existing themes are reimbursed, aka an expansion containing cards that haven't made the cut in existing expansions or would add in the existing theme. More travelers from adventures, more tokens for teacher, more debt cards etc etc.
Why would you want an expansion of outtakes? I mean those cards were cut for good reasons.
There can't be any more tokens for Teacher without errata for Teacher. Teacher specifies right on the card which tokens you can move with it.
produce a new teacher card with an altered text and place it in the expansion
well, from what I read I get that the idea for Storyteller is rather old, however the mechanism wasn't there yet. There can be more for some cards to not make the cut. I think this would be a nice way to implement cards that were not ready when the expansion was released but they still cover the main theme.
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produce a new teacher card with an altered text and place it in the expansion
I am not trying to bring you down, but I feel very comfortable stating that this will never happen. Any new Adventures-style tokens would just have new cards or events or whatever to place them. Teacher is already balanced around the tokens it uses.
well, from what I read I get that the idea for Storyteller is rather old, however the mechanism wasn't there yet. There can be more for some cards to not make the cut. I think this would be a nice way to implement cards that were not ready when the expansion was released but they still cover the main theme.
Well the good news is that every expansion has cards like that; ones that didn't work out previously but were then fixed up.
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produce a new teacher card with an altered text and place it in the expansion
I am not trying to bring you down, but I feel very comfortable stating that this will never happen. Any new Adventures-style tokens would just have new cards or events or whatever to place them. Teacher is already balanced around the tokens it uses.
Dumber-er
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/60/Coin6star.png/16px-Coin6star.png) - Action-Reserve
Put this on your Prison mat.
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At the end of your turn, you may call this, to move your Discard a card token, your Give yourself a Curse token, your Trash a card costing at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png) token, or your Let your opponent Possess you next turn token to an Action Supply pile you already have a token on.
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Alchemy is an interesting thought, maybe even a 2nd edition. I think Alchemy might not be worth salvaging, at least not urgently.
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I personally am kind of hoping for an unlikely Dominion: Rebuilt.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly, and it's probably a very bad idea money-wise, but I can dream. A set with Feast for 2$, some sort of working Adventurer and Thief, a Rebuild that doesn't suck, Cultist with an "or" clause, errataed Possession, fast Scrying pool, cheaper Familiar, maybe even all of Alchemy rebuffed plus some.
Well, this basically happened! To an extent.
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I personally am kind of hoping for an unlikely Dominion: Rebuilt.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly, and it's probably a very bad idea money-wise, but I can dream. A set with Feast for 2$, some sort of working Adventurer and Thief, a Rebuild that doesn't suck, Cultist with an "or" clause, errataed Possession, fast Scrying pool, cheaper Familiar, maybe even all of Alchemy rebuffed plus some.
Your wish was partly granted!
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I personally am kind of hoping for an unlikely Dominion: Rebuilt.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly, and it's probably a very bad idea money-wise, but I can dream. A set with Feast for 2$, some sort of working Adventurer and Thief, a Rebuild that doesn't suck, Cultist with an "or" clause, errataed Possession, fast Scrying pool, cheaper Familiar, maybe even all of Alchemy rebuffed plus some.
Your wish was partly granted!
Jinx. :P
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A reverse traveller (an expensive traveller that gets cheaper, but not necessarily worse) would be a cool idea
I had an idea similar to this today, a traveler that doesn't progress linearly. Below line text could be "when you discard this from play, you may exchange it for (card A) or (card B)" then have several different options for how you want to exchange your travelers. I know it would be a pain to implement, and all the cards in the traveler lines wold take up a large chunk of the expansion, but I think it would be cool.
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Has there been any confirmation that another expansion is actually in the works or is this just typical whatsnextism?
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A reverse traveller (an expensive traveller that gets cheaper, but not necessarily worse) would be a cool idea
I had an idea similar to this today, a traveler that doesn't progress linearly. Below line text could be "when you discard this from play, you may exchange it for (card A) or (card B)" then have several different options for how you want to exchange your travelers. I know it would be a pain to implement, and all the cards in the traveler lines wold take up a large chunk of the expansion, but I think it would be cool.
I don't see anything wrong with a traveler you *must* exchange that gets worse. Sort of like a one-shot that turns into a Village and then a cantrip. (Or not exactly that because it's sort of vanilla, but you get the idea) Maybe the very last one could be worth 1VP and go on your Tavern mat when played, like a retirement of sorts.
Forking upgrades was a neat idea, but if you overdo it, it's a lot of cards in the box for one Supply pile. It would take a lot of work to figure out what sorts of upgrade paths would grant meaningful choices and flexibility responsive to shuffle luck. Arguably, you could have thinner piles for the forks to make the pile sizes work out ok - 10 copies for lvl1 (Supply), 2 each for lvl2, 1 each for lvl3. Maybe there could be three choices and then two choices, so that there are 6 final/lvl3 forms. None of them could be as game-warping as Champion and Teacher, since it would take less shuffles, and other players are denied whatever you get first (think more like Prizes). Some other condition might need to make it harder to reach the final form, such as needing to have unspent $ or a certain handsize, for example. (The Handsize requirement could be implemented on a Traveler who draws cards, for example. If you must have 6 cards in hand, then this is always possible with a +2 Cards terminal who did not get attacked or play non-drawing cards that hand)
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A reverse traveller (an expensive traveller that gets cheaper, but not necessarily worse) would be a cool idea
I had an idea similar to this today, a traveler that doesn't progress linearly. Below line text could be "when you discard this from play, you may exchange it for (card A) or (card B)" then have several different options for how you want to exchange your travelers. I know it would be a pain to implement, and all the cards in the traveler lines wold take up a large chunk of the expansion, but I think it would be cool.
I don't see anything wrong with a traveler you *must* exchange that gets worse. Sort of like a one-shot that turns into a Village and then a cantrip. (Or not exactly that because it's sort of vanilla, but you get the idea) Maybe the very last one could be worth 1VP and go on your Tavern mat when played, like a retirement of sorts.
Forking upgrades was a neat idea, but if you overdo it, it's a lot of cards in the box for one Supply pile. It would take a lot of work to figure out what sorts of upgrade paths would grant meaningful choices and flexibility responsive to shuffle luck. Arguably, you could have thinner piles for the forks to make the pile sizes work out ok - 10 copies for lvl1 (Supply), 2 each for lvl2, 1 each for lvl3. Maybe there could be three choices and then two choices, so that there are 6 final/lvl3 forms. None of them could be as game-warping as Champion and Teacher, since it would take less shuffles, and other players are denied whatever you get first (think more like Prizes). Some other condition might need to make it harder to reach the final form, such as needing to have unspent $ or a certain handsize, for example. (The Handsize requirement could be implemented on a Traveler who draws cards, for example. If you must have 6 cards in hand, then this is always possible with a +2 Cards terminal who did not get attacked or play non-drawing cards that hand)
I like the idea of making the lvl 2 and lvl 3 cards harder to get. Attach a condition to the exchange, because they will be so much faster to get. I especially like the idea of the hand size requirement of 6 cards in hand, with a +2 Cards terminal. This allows the opponent to try to stop the exchange for the better card.
Has there been any confirmation that another expansion is actually in the works or is this just typical whatsnextism?
Typical whatsnextism.
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Alchemy is an interesting thought, maybe even a 2nd edition. I think Alchemy might not be worth salvaging, at least not urgently.
Alchemy needed a second edition way more than Intrigue.
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Alchemy is an interesting thought, maybe even a 2nd edition. I think Alchemy might not be worth salvaging, at least not urgently.
Alchemy needed a second edition way more than Intrigue.
People hate it so much as-is that a rework might have not attracted much attention. There are also some balance and tempo problems intrinsic to having an alternate currency, and it might take a very long time to fix all of them together as a set.
Also, Scout. (Mill is a nice re-work too.)
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Alchemy is an interesting thought, maybe even a 2nd edition. I think Alchemy might not be worth salvaging, at least not urgently.
Alchemy needed a second edition way more than Intrigue.
People hate it so much as-is that a rework might have not attracted much attention. There are also some balance and tempo problems intrinsic to having an alternate currency, and it might take a very long time to fix all of them together as a set.
Also, Scout. (Mill is a nice re-work too.)
There's not really anything wrong with Alchemy anyway, aside from Transmute being rather weak. I think the best thing that could be done would simply have been upgrading it to a 300 card set. But that would take a lot of work and a lot of testing.
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Possession is the most hated card among casual players. I would drop it because of how much it turns people off.
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Alchemy is an interesting thought, maybe even a 2nd edition. I think Alchemy might not be worth salvaging, at least not urgently.
Alchemy needed a second edition way more than Intrigue.
People hate it so much as-is that a rework might have not attracted much attention. There are also some balance and tempo problems intrinsic to having an alternate currency, and it might take a very long time to fix all of them together as a set.
Also, Scout. (Mill is a nice re-work too.)
There's not really anything wrong with Alchemy anyway, aside from Transmute being rather weak. I think the best thing that could be done would simply have been upgrading it to a 300 card set. But that would take a lot of work and a lot of testing.
Other problems:
Spy attack on Scrying Pool
Possession - When it can be used to spend another players coin tokens, or muck up their adventures tokens (+1 card/action/etc), it becomes an attack that is not an attack, which is a big problem.
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Familiar's cost should also be $2p
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Possession is the most hated card among casual players. I would drop it because of how much it turns people off.
It goes beyond hatred. Given all the non-card assets that have been introduced in Guilds and adventures, Possession is very much an attack now, but it is not called an attack and cannot be defended against as attacks can. This is a mechanical problem that cannot be addressed without a major rewrite of the card. Best to get rid of it.
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It goes beyond hatred. Given all the non-card assets that have been introduced in Guilds and adventures, Possession is very much an attack now, but it is not called an attack and cannot be defended against as attacks can. This is a mechanical problem that cannot be addressed without a major rewrite of the card. Best to get rid of it.
What is or is not an Attack is completely arbitrary — while your opponent's Militia might hurt your chances of winning the game, your opponent's Bridge might hurt your chances of winning the game just as much if not more. Even though you might perceive revealing a Moat to an Attack as "defending" because of flavor, you're really just reacting to the fact that a card with the type Attack is played, and it's to be expected that you can't react to a card with the type Attack being played when a card without the type is played.
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I personally am kind of hoping for an unlikely Dominion: Rebuilt.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly, and it's probably a very bad idea money-wise, but I can dream. A set with Feast for 2$, some sort of working Adventurer and Thief, a Rebuild that doesn't suck, Cultist with an "or" clause, errataed Possession, fast Scrying pool, cheaper Familiar, maybe even all of Alchemy rebuffed plus some.
Your wish was partly granted!
Jinx. :P
Oops... I saw the new post then read the rest of the thread because I forgot about it...
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Possession is the most hated card among casual players. I would drop it because of how much it turns people off.
It goes beyond hatred. Given all the non-card assets that have been introduced in Guilds and adventures, Possession is very much an attack now, but it is not called an attack and cannot be defended against as attacks can. This is a mechanical problem that cannot be addressed without a major rewrite of the card. Best to get rid of it.
IGG is a much worse "pseudo-Attack" than Possession. Whether Possession has the Attack type or not would rarely matter anyway, since there's only 3 cards in all of Dominion which can prevent an Attack, plus only one or two that would help the Possessed rather than the Possessor (Secret Chamber/Diplomat to make your possessed hand worse and occasionally Beggar). And it's good that you can't trash Squire to gain Possession.
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There's not really anything wrong with Alchemy anyway, aside from Transmute being rather weak.
I strongly disagree. Almost half of the cards in Alchemy have a significant design flaw, and percentage-wise, that makes it the worst set by far, way worse even than the old Base set. (Even though I will admit it also has a couple of the coolest cards, including Apothecary, University, Golem and Apprentice, whereas the Base set by comparison is fairly bland.)
- Transmute is terribly underpowered, might be even worse than Scout.
- Philosopher's Stone is also too weak and rarely useful.
- Possession has the immense FAQ, the rules confusion, the errata, and so on. The idea is cool, but it might just be unfixable.
- Scrying Pool takes too much time to resolve (even though it's a great card otherwise).
- Familiar is too swingy.
(- Herbalist is okay but also a bit on the weak side)
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There's not really anything wrong with Alchemy anyway, aside from Transmute being rather weak.
I strongly disagree. Almost half of the cards in Alchemy have a significant design flaw, and percentage-wise, that makes it the worst set by far, way worse even than the old Base set. (Even though I will admit it also has a couple of the coolest cards, including Apothecary, University, Golem and Apprentice, whereas the Base set by comparison is fairly bland.)
- Transmute is terribly underpowered, might be even worse than Scout.
- Philosopher's Stone is also too weak and rarely useful.
- Possession has the immense FAQ, the rules confusion, the errata, and so on. The idea is cool, but it might just be unfixable.
- Scrying Pool takes too much time to resolve (even though it's a great card otherwise).
- Familiar is too swingy.
(- Herbalist is okay but also a bit on the weak side)
I'm a big fan of Alchemy, so I tend to agree with Wero.
- Transmute I agree with.
- PS is weak, but not unusable
- Possession is obnoxious, but I just check the FAQ when I play. You often don't buy it, but it still changes the game, which is cool.
- Scrying Pool is better when both players go for it. Max they play 5-6 a turn (Bcs you both bought some). Yes, it is painful, but the idea is really cool. KC can take forever, too, or Magpie, Menagerie, etc.
- Familiar is swingy, but not terrible.
- Herbalist is, like PS, weak, but I still get it sometimes. Sometimes I even spend (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/df/Coin11.png/16px-Coin11.png) for it...
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There's not really anything wrong with Alchemy anyway, aside from Transmute being rather weak.
I strongly disagree. Almost half of the cards in Alchemy have a significant design flaw, and percentage-wise, that makes it the worst set by far, way worse even than the old Base set. (Even though I will admit it also has a couple of the coolest cards, including Apothecary, University, Golem and Apprentice, whereas the Base set by comparison is fairly bland.)
- Transmute is terribly underpowered, might be even worse than Scout.
- Philosopher's Stone is also too weak and rarely useful.
- Possession has the immense FAQ, the rules confusion, the errata, and so on. The idea is cool, but it might just be unfixable.
- Scrying Pool takes too much time to resolve (even though it's a great card otherwise).
- Familiar is too swingy.
(- Herbalist is okay but also a bit on the weak side)
I'm a big fan of Alchemy, so I tend to agree with Wero.
- Transmute I agree with.
- PS is weak, but not unusable
- Possession is obnoxious, but I just check the FAQ when I play. You often don't buy it, but it still changes the game, which is cool.
- Scrying Pool is better when both players go for it. Max they play 5-6 a turn (Bcs you both bought some). Yes, it is painful, but the idea is really cool. KC can take forever, too, or Magpie, Menagerie, etc.
- Familiar is swingy, but not terrible.
- Herbalist is, like PS, weak, but I still get it sometimes. Sometimes I even spend (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/df/Coin11.png/16px-Coin11.png) for it...
I can't trust someone who likes Cornucopia. I'm still bitter about Tournament being a thing.
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Possession is the most hated card among casual players. I would drop it because of how much it turns people off.
It goes beyond hatred. Given all the non-card assets that have been introduced in Guilds and adventures, Possession is very much an attack now, but it is not called an attack and cannot be defended against as attacks can. This is a mechanical problem that cannot be addressed without a major rewrite of the card. Best to get rid of it.
IGG is a much worse "pseudo-Attack" than Possession. Whether Possession has the Attack type or not would rarely matter anyway, since there's only 3 cards in all of Dominion which can prevent an Attack, plus only one or two that would help the Possessed rather than the Possessor (Secret Chamber/Diplomat to make your possessed hand worse and occasionally Beggar). And it's good that you can't trash Squire to gain Possession.
There is one key factor you are missing. By design, attacks affect all other players, while Possession only affects the player to your left. In 2 player, this distinction is meaningless, but in 3+ it is significant. When player A plays a Militia, B, C, and D all either discard or block the attack through moat or lighthouse. When player A possesses, they can can spend all of player B's coin tokens, or turn B's disciples into unwanted teachers, or move adventures tokens to useless cards, etc to damage B's chances, but C and D are unaffected.
By the design of the game, cards that are attacks should have the potential to damage all other players, cards that are not attacks should not damage any players. If cards were the only game pieces, you can argue that possession does not actually damage the possessed player (though there are certainly times where this happens, such as when the possessor discards the possessed players alchemist chain when he could top deck it) since deck composition is unchanged after the possessed turn. In the presence of all the other additions mentioned above, possession in effect becomes an attack that damages only one player. In 3+ player, I view this as unacceptable, and therefore view the card as fundamentally flawed in it's concept. Fixing it is impractical at best. I feel that the card is fixable and should not be part of the game.
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I have no problem with the pseudo-attack part of Possession... it only matters in combination with a few specific cards, and in those cases it generally just means that going for those few specific isn't a great idea of Possession is on the board.
I do have a problem with 2 things about Possession though...
1. While Mission and Outpost go out of their way to ensure that you can't get more than 1 extra turn out of them, Possession doesn't do that. Playing multiple Possessions in a turn is just so game-warping.
2. The rules confusion. Aside from the fact that the card itself is wordier than any other, the interactions it has with Outpost, other Possessions, etc, still cause rules questions to this day, and it's about the only thing in Dominion where the answer to a "how does this work" isn't just "do what the card says, literally, in order, doing as much as you can".
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-A promo card for those owning all expansions?
I was thinking about the following:
Name: Mixed Village
Price: $5
Effect: +2 Actions, +1 Card, play both cards from the Mixed Village mat, ignoring the +2 actions, +1 card part.
Setup: Put two Action cards in the Mixed Village mat, that have +2 actions, +1 card in their effect, that cost $4.