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Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Let's Discuss ... => Topic started by: faust on August 31, 2016, 05:29:59 pm

Title: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: faust on August 31, 2016, 05:29:59 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/dd/Defiled_Shrine.jpg/320px-Defiled_Shrine.jpg)
Have you ever played Knights of the Old Republic? This reminds me of the final planet you land on there.

It's the other part of Curse Empowerment Movement (also known as Purple Cards Matter)! Unfortunately, it doesn't combo very well with its sister in spirit, Ritual, because the bonus is only on-buy.

In a standard game, you'll have maybe 9 action supply piles if you're lucky, which makes this get 18 VP, or three Provinces. Of course often there's Scout or something and the pile is never touched. But it's reasonable to assume it will be at least a double-digit number of VP usually. Which means there will be at least 2 times someone buys a Curse during the game. Chances are this will make a heavy impact in almost every game it's in, excluding maybe games with other Cursers that make the pile run out before you can get the VP.

- At which value would you start picking this up with a spare buy in a trashing game? How about a non-trashing game?
- How often can you do the "gain several actions, then buy a Curse" move?
- Just how often does it matter with Cursers? Like, you buy the last Curse if you know that your opponent would give it to you anyway?
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: McGarnacle on August 31, 2016, 06:09:06 pm
Finally, a Landmark which looks like it will make the game more fun. This actually looks really cool. The art is nice too.

Just a quick question, do you need to by Landmarks to trigger the effects like Events, or are they always there?
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: mameluke on August 31, 2016, 07:14:38 pm
They're always there -- a permanent 'effect'.

I like this one -- it's definitely a case of 'do something you wouldn't always do anyways' which isn't the case with too many of the Landmarks.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: ConMan on August 31, 2016, 07:19:15 pm
Quote from: McGarnacle on August 31, 2016, 06:09:06 pm
Finally, a Landmark which looks like it will make the game more fun. This actually looks really cool. The art is nice too.

Just a quick question, do you need to by Landmarks to trigger the effects like Events, or are they always there?
They're always there, that's why they don't have a cost.

And a question for me - you put VP only on non-Gathering Action cards, but do you move VP from Gathering piles? The top line doesn't specify.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on August 31, 2016, 07:23:17 pm
Quote from: ConMan on August 31, 2016, 07:19:15 pm
Quote from: McGarnacle on August 31, 2016, 06:09:06 pm
Finally, a Landmark which looks like it will make the game more fun. This actually looks really cool. The art is nice too.

Just a quick question, do you need to by Landmarks to trigger the effects like Events, or are they always there?
They're always there, that's why they don't have a cost.

And a question for me - you put VP only on non-Gathering Action cards, but do you move VP from Gathering piles? The top line doesn't specify.
I'd assume so.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: AdrianHealey on August 31, 2016, 07:33:41 pm
Quote from: ConMan on August 31, 2016, 07:19:15 pm
Quote from: McGarnacle on August 31, 2016, 06:09:06 pm
Finally, a Landmark which looks like it will make the game more fun. This actually looks really cool. The art is nice too.

Just a quick question, do you need to by Landmarks to trigger the effects like Events, or are they always there?
They're always there, that's why they don't have a cost.

And a question for me - you put VP only on non-Gathering Action cards, but do you move VP from Gathering piles? The top line doesn't specify.

The card says you do.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on August 31, 2016, 07:53:53 pm
And ruins is an action supply pile, so you could have a maximum of 24VP available from this (with young witch).

Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 31, 2016, 07:57:32 pm
Quote from: LibraryAdventurer on August 31, 2016, 07:53:53 pm
And ruins is an action supply pile, so you could have a maximum of 24VP available from this (with young witch).

Or more if you have Gatherings.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on August 31, 2016, 11:45:47 pm
Just played a 3-player IRL game with Defiled Shrine. Four curses were bought, including one on the last turn of the game to secure a win. He didn't have enough to buy a province (there was only one left), but he was able to buy the last two candlestick makers and a curse (for a net 2VP), ending the game and causing him to win by 1.
Unfortunately, it wasn't me who did that.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: Haddock on September 01, 2016, 07:12:43 am
Are there ever clever tricks with Ambassador that are worth doing?  Only in the presence of other cursers, I suspect, but even then it's probably questionable.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: tailred on September 01, 2016, 11:08:36 am
Note that, unlike ritual, this is on buy, not on gain, so WT and Trader work. Also giving a reason for this to be a landmark over a silly 0 cost +1 buy event.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: Chris is me on September 01, 2016, 12:32:35 pm
Quote from: Haddock on September 01, 2016, 07:12:43 am
Are there ever clever tricks with Ambassador that are worth doing?  Only in the presence of other cursers, I suspect, but even then it's probably questionable.

If there aren't any other Cursers, Ambassador is a good enough reason to buy a Curse sometimes even without Defiled Shrine. I don't think you would return Curses to buy them again more than once or twice as the opportunity arises, but you'd buy the first Curse to pick up a bunch of VP and start junking your opponent. Maybe you would eventually want 2, to get more points, and then once the pile's down, return both and buy the leftover one to get even more free points. Situational but worth considering.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: mail-mi on September 01, 2016, 01:04:09 pm
Quote from: Chris is me on September 01, 2016, 12:32:35 pm
Quote from: Haddock on September 01, 2016, 07:12:43 am
Are there ever clever tricks with Ambassador that are worth doing?  Only in the presence of other cursers, I suspect, but even then it's probably questionable.

If there aren't any other Cursers, Ambassador is a good enough reason to buy a Curse sometimes even without Defiled Shrine. I don't think you would return Curses to buy them again more than once or twice as the opportunity arises, but you'd buy the first Curse to pick up a bunch of VP and start junking your opponent. Maybe you would eventually want 2, to get more points, and then once the pile's down, return both and buy the leftover one to get even more free points. Situational but worth considering.

On a related note, I got ambassador out of the BM deck once. It was the only junker in he game. Those were good times.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: shark_bait on September 29, 2016, 12:21:32 pm
Just played my first game IRL with this Landmark.  LOVE IT!  Seriously one of the most innovative additions to the Landmark family.

+Buy cards become almost a must get in the opening turns as that additional buy can turn into a fair number of VP chips for only a curse in deck.  Without a +Buy readily accessible relative opportunity costs are essential.  At what price point and for how many chips are you will to not get a card that you want and instead buy a curse?  That question is so hard to answer and really adds to the dynamics of the early game.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Landmarks: Defiled Shrine
Post by: ackmondual on January 28, 2017, 06:43:49 pm
Ahh.. the "Puerto Rico effect".... one normally won't do this, but make it juicy enough... one will bite!

This makes the Curse worth n-1 pts due to the VP tokens (also what 'n' represents), but all the better if you can Trash that curse.  Otherwise, it only takes up one card in your deck.